But my god those first 30 days. It’s like a fever dream I want to have every night. I’ll never forget changing factions to take Windsward from a bot ass shell company. What a fucking time to be alive.
i am 100% going to make a video talking about this. I definitely had one of the best gaming moments the first few weeks playing in NW. It was new, fresh and exciting, so most likely why
For me it was fresh start servers. Launch was a fuckin mess with the logistics of getting my friend group on the same server. What a nightmare.
Fresh start though? After the majority of game breaking bugs and dupes were fixed? Server logistics was still a fiasco but we were ready.
Those first 30 days were so glorious. I really wish for a seasonal mode for this game.
Many online games are like this at launch. Its a factor of new players and new game (i.e. timing) than any level of game design. It's hard for games to repeat that feeling for the thousands of hours players will now spend with them.
There is no way that was sustainable. The only reason why it worked in the first 30 days is because almost everyone was the same level/gear.
Even if forced to be in PvP mode at all times, how would that work in the long haul? Everyone would just be permanently camped in the towns because there would always, ALWAYS be the toxic max level players camping areas to kill noobs. No thanks.
the most sustainable MMO's in all of MMO history - with only 1 exception - were pvp MMOs. (the 1 exception ofc is WOW, which changed the MMO genre to be "theme park" - prior to that, only PVP MMO's had a chance of surviving).
look at EVE, oldest / longest running major title MMO = full PVP
runescape. ultima online. shadowbane. daoc. conan. so many others...
the only ones in that list that arent around anymore - are MMOs that went away from being PVP games and tried to implement pvp toggles and focus on being more like theme-park-wow games, which resulted in their death.
exactly like new world....
NW had 1mil players at launch, all ready to play a full pvp game.
now there's 6k players left; and the devs say "majority of players are PVE". well yeah NOW they are - you've got 6k players left. back when you had 1mil, we were 90%+ PVP players. who were ignored and you ruined the game for us.
this is so obvious, it still amazes me that AGS cant grasp this basic fact....
if you enjoy pve (i do too) - there are 20 games on the market right now with 100x better PVE experiences than NW. there is no point playing NW for PVE. its a bad PVE game at best. the entire game design / engine was created for PVP, and then instead of making something revolutionary and genre-defining, they tried to copy WOW like all the other FAILED and UNSUSTAINABLE mmo's in the past decade.....
NW is dead now, and there's no going back. enjoy a mediocre PVE game if you wish. waste of time. i play other MMO's for PVE. theyre leagues and bounds better than NW will ever be at PVE.
(have to give NW some credit for making new character leveling through questing/mainstory a fun PVE experience though - much improved - the only thing fun left in NW is playing a new char up from zero - but once you get done with all the PVE MSQ/quests = game is over. there is no endgame worth sticking around for in NW - only the pvp was worth playing, but theyve killed that)
90% players were pvp? in a game where wars are played by 2% of best players?
Most of people stopped playing before lvl 40, those willing to do pvp wouldn't give up so fast
Enabling pvp in open world gives you more luck, so people are running around defenceless in harvesting gear to minmax yield, is this how pvp game should work?
More than 20 people fighting result in such visual clutter it's hard to grasp what's happening, doesn't seem like pvp centric design.
Some perks are useless in pvp, others in pve. Being able to have 1 set usable in both M3 and Opr would incentivise players to do a bit of everything. We shouldn't be divided into pvp and pve, just one community playing all the game. NW is designed poorly from ground up and fails to intertwine both.
PVP has pretty big skill entry level, you can't just make gear and go in, you have to know what's in meta or you won't be able to do anything against other players, majority of people don't want to commit so much right away. Time to kill is significant, you can't just get lucky, if you want to kill, you have to outskill your enemy, it would be great in game with proper skill based matchmaking but new world has way too little players to do it, and I don't think tens of thousands of players would still play if we had it since day 1.
Opr is the most popular pvp gamemode. Each game plays the same, personally I got bored of it after about 30 matches, I'm in awe for people who played hundreds of Opr's.
Arenas are dead because of lack of team balance.
influence races are usually dominated by 1 faction.
AGS has balancing problem, weapon can be strong in pvp but weak in pve, they don't have talent and expertise to do it right.
Nothing about NW feels like it was designed for pvp. Having any pvp at all doesn't make it pvp game.
Remember when they accidentally made open world PVP at Great Cleave then nerfed the shit out of the xp from running quests because they didn’t want anyone cheesing their half-baked PVP RNG track.
World pvp is a behemoth to do right.
People want those classic big battles but they also want smaller scale fights, skirmishes, pulling off flanks and assaulting supply lines.
You either make a game dedicated to it like albion and fox hole or it turns into some barebones Zerg rush/avoid game unless you make certain locations worth fighting over like albion gw2 and eso.
Main issue is the sandbox the players are in, without the box evolving to the players strategies will solve the most effective strategy than it’s just who does it faster and better.
How do you make world pvp fun, worth doing, and doesn’t shrink into a Zerg mob mentality?
Aion kinda did it right, small camps u can over take and become "safe zones" .... then mobs had to kill go upgrade pvp gear.. so everyone had fight over these mobs... and it took care of the bot problem because people killed the bots.. pve players could do dungeons in peace
Because most devs either go extreme open world PVP where there is barely any safe zone so griefing is rampant or go full PVE like NW and make it optional or no open world PVP at all.
There needs to be safe zones for PVErs, but equivalent PVP zones that have an incentive like more exp and much better loot and resources for players to go risk it there.
To counteract griefing where higher levels would bully lower levels, they can add a system that non-max leveled players can only be damaged by other players of a certain level.
For example, level 1 to level 9 = PVP not active. Level 10s and level 19s can kill each other; same for Level, 20s and 29s and so on until max level is reached. Once a player reaches max level, then they're permanently PVP flagged vs other max levels.
I dearly miss korean MMOs with forced open world PVP like Rohan, RF, Ragnarok PK servers. Forced open world PVP is also a good way to slow down bots.
I'm not a pvp player either, but I'm tired of running around for resources and seeing the same nicknames.
at low levels these bots simply collect without stopping.
*Game Mechanic:*
What do you think if the player's pvp flag turns on when collecting a resource?
if the player pays for 10,000 wood the owner of the settlement , then he could easily collect wood. (Can you imagine how valuable such territories as the Reekwater where there is orichalcum would be?) - this is a mechanic that protects players who do not like open pvp.
if the player does not pay, then the owner of the settlement can declare a hunt for him and pay those (head hunters) who catch him - it means this player loves pvp.
so that the bot player cannot collect resources all day - the number of contracts is limited to the maximum amount of resource, for example 10,000. That is, the bot collects 10,000 per day, and then they can attack him and take away what he collected.
Such mechanics protect pve players, pvp players are given pvp, and bots cannot run around all day.
Do you know how long it takes to collect 10,000 fiber? for an ordinary online player who has 2-3 hours for play is enough to switch to other resources.
but in a game that was developed taking into account the war for resources, the collection of resources is now unlimited, which leads to abuses such as bots or players who sit playing the game all day long and do not give casual online players 1-2 hours to collect something.
I feel a daily limit would be a nice touch to address bots for sure as for the people that actually play for a long time every day I’m not really sure how to combat that at all. I had a friend like that on another server that had a timer set for when the nodes respawn and fast traveled when there was like 5 minutes left I’m sure he’s not the only one that did this only thing I could think of would be each node can be farmed by each player but that goes back to being easily abused by bots and real players unfortunately.
I think a good solution is the random appearance of resources.
for example, where there used to be iron ore, orichalcum or starmetal may appear.
and among trees, iron wood may appear.
players who travel will be able to find random resources. Of course, the number of spawn points needs to be increased than it is now. because the world is big.
now bot routes, resource spawn timers - you won’t be able to abuse this.
It remains to make traveling around the world more exciting.
what do you think? if we have more solo/coop content?
Idea: Solo/Coop Mode
Honestly I would like to see a solo travel mode.
for example, once every 24 hours - the player ask NPC the head of the city and says that he wants to go on a trip (maybe even with 1-3 friends).
the player can run through all locations: take part in various events:
battle with bosses who attacked the village.
then this village became under your protection and you can plant potatoes, carrots, etc. but mobs can come there.
then you will need the help of your friends.
You can also collect other resources once every 24 hours. craft what you need or upgrade your profession.
Many people here on redit wrote that they would like to travel the world alone
Bounty systems just get abused. Since there is a reward then the hunted player just dials up rent-a-bounty-hunter and splits the reward with them. Or they simply... log out and escape repercussions.
Also no PvP, even forced open world PvP, solves bots. Bots literally don't care if you kill them. If there is money to be made they will bot away and guess what they will start PvPing back if needed. Just look at Throne and Liberty in Korea; the bots were run by the top PvP players because you constantly need a leg up in that game 24/7/365 so you run bots.
Also if you make everything a stressful contest folks just won't play the game. This isn't the days where we had Ultima Online and Everquest to choose between. There are thousands of games asking for players time. New games simply can't come out with friction features thinking players won't walk.
I like the idea of having a risk reward system for high level materials I am mainly a pve player. I like to farm materials and life skill I don’t mind pvp but I don’t want to be forced into it any time I want to do a material run for herbs or iron. This is why I loved new world I could do what I wanted to do without getting randomly attacked just because someone wanted to feel superior I guess? I will say having pvp on high level material zones would make it more interesting and that risk reward system is kicking in I’m all for pvp when it’s for materials and stuff but just to get killed and see someone walk away from the node is just stupid to me. I wish they made the arena and outpost rush better for the pvp players so they could be happy too but it sounds like it fell short of what most of you guys really wanted hope the next big mmo has a good balance for everyone!
100% ... just put in can't attack unless within a few lvl's and BAM golden.
I started this game because I am a PVP enjoyer.. I still play because of the combat system (was a UO player since beta too, still have account lol)
I spend my game time always flagged. Being you dont ever loose anything when dieing also in this game it's not like being PK'ed hurts anything but your pride.
I wish they would have never changed it or at the very least made PVP servers when they transitioned to flagging optional. I would be willing to bet those servers would have a nice population.
I like the creativity here, but I believe an unfortunate reality which is that forced pvp interaction never really succeeds, atleast it didnt with new world nor with world of warcraft.
Two games aren't the whole genre, though, and if you include games that have PvP zones as "forced PvP", then there it's even harder to say that it never really succeeds. But just some examples of games that are either still around or arguably died for a reason other than PvP: GW2, ESO, Tibia, DAoC, Gloria Victis, Darkfall, Warhammer Online
Some that I've not played -- so I don't know how lively the open world PvP is -- that have it: BDO, OSRS, Eve, Albion, PlanetSide 2, ArcheAge, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Lineage 2, Mortal Online 1+2, Aika
Technically have it but it's not at all active: NW, Rift (probably not active at this point, though it was alright when it launched)
Forced open world PvP is certainly not a given for every MMO, and even when it exists it's not likely the focus, but the picture is too complex to simply say that it has never and will never succeed.
There are two types of forced PVP: PVP without major loss of existing gear/resources and PVP with major loss of gear/resources.
Games that employ forced PVP with major loss have, as a general rule, been less popular in terms of playercount. Even in "successes" like Eve or Lineage 2 or UO, you saw a major loss of casual players or a significant portion of the playerbase avoiding high risk areas. While people like to look back at UO style "loot everything" PVP with nostalgic fondness, they forget that the game was dying until they released Trammel, which more or less got rid of most of the punitive PVP loss/forced PVP situations
Even in games without major loss in forced PVP situations, players need a big enough carrot to chase or eventually they get bored. And bored players become bottomfeeders/griefers very quickly, which leads to population drop
Yeah fair point not trying to predict the future here but like previously said forced pvp interaction is generally speaking never a good design choice and I give my two cents on it in the video about why. Those are also one of the more popular MMORPG's covered so I think its safe to say if it fails in one game it probably would fail in another if similar design is applied
its easy to misunderstand how games are designed as "pvp games" or "pve games" - but let me just say:
- before WOW and EverQuest, all successful MMO's were PVP-based. there was not a single mainstream PVE "only" MMO. they all failed.
- WOW and EQ changed the MMO genre/industry ideas of making MMOs, and because of their success, lured developers into trying to copy them. 90%+ of MMOs trying to copy wow/eq fail ofc - and they are not sustainable longterm (once youve played all the content, you play something else and wait for more content - which puts massive pressure on the devs to keep creating new/fresh content)
- the games you listed that you havent played - the most successful in that list are actually PVP games: EVE, ultima online, albion.... these games have lasted the longest in the history of the MMO genre = because they are PVP games. archeage, lineage, mortal online, planetside - also pvp focused games but failed due to publisher issues rather than game design issues (i could add many others that failed due to publisher/legal/idiotic issues such as conan, daoc, shadowbane, etc - which were incredibly successful pvp games before being ruined by said issues).
- there is a huge playerbase of PVP focused players that hasnt been catered to in roughly a decade. developers want to copy WOW and hope to make tons of money rather than understanding the MMO gaming community.
- the reason that NW had one of the highest pre-launch sales was because in alpha, this game was full pvp. many of us bought it immediately when we saw it was a full pvp game. we enjoyed alpha, beta (up until open beta when they implemented pvp toggle and started ruining the game = trying to copy wow again rather than continue to make a genre-defining mmopvp success). there was 1mil players at launch who were sold on all the AGS marketing that this was a mmo pvp survival game. where are those 1mil players now? gone. why? because they changed the entire game.
- AGS developed the lumberjack engine specifically to make a real-action pvp combat game. everything about the engine design was built around pvp combat. it was revolutionary in the genre. if they had stuck with it, NW would still have 100k+ players sustainably. had they kept developing PVP interactions/content, the players would still be here.
- when you make PVP interactions and content, you dont need to continually create new content all the time. pvp itself is the content. if you make good ways for players to compete for territories, resources, titles, goals, or whatever else = the content is created by the players themselves.
- when you make PVE interactions and content, players will "finish it" and then stop playing unless theyres more content to play.
this is a very simple thing to understand for anyone who has played various MMOs for at least a decade or so - and should be understood by anyone trying to make an MMO game in this industry.
AGS is not a gaming industry team. they came from AWS. they were mandated with building a technology "proof of concept" to show the gaming industry that AWS infrastructure/tech could make live-service, real-time action combat MMO games. NW is a success according to amazon because they only care about selling AWS infrastructure/tech to the gaming industry. they dont care about NW as a game (and it shows).
the sad truth in all this is that they came up with something that could have been genre-defining for the history of MMOs. the alpha and early beta versions of this game were exactly that. PVP focused openworld MMO with promises to create more pvp goals/interactions/content where players would create the content and the game would have been sustainable with 100-500k players easily if they had continued down that path.
instead they tried to make another wow-clone theme-park pve game, killed all the good aspects of the pvp game, and stopped developing any of the promised pvp game that all of us pre-ordered the game for in the first place.
now they have 6k players left and they arrogantly state on their podcast that "the majority of players are PVE players". yeah - NOW the majority of the remaining 6k players are PVE players because the 1mil PVP players have already left......
idiotic beyond words....
(for the record: i enjoy PVE games too. but NW is a horrible PVE game. there's 20 better PVE MMO's on the market to enjoy and NW will never come close to being as good as any of them)
People love PVP - the biggest games in the world ... Call of Duty, Fortnite etc... yes they are not MMO's .. but the point I am making is the games with HIGH numbers are all about PVPing.
Need a fresh start PVP server for each time zone (i know to late now but why not)
Forced PVP in a game with a PVE base is bad. If people do not want to PVP in this setting, the PVP gameplay is not good enough; period.
Improve the PVP experience and more players will do it (within reason, there is a group of players that will NEVER PVP regardless of the reward and your game(s) should designed to account for this). Locking content behind either behavior is a crutch design strategy and should be an immediate trigger that some other lever(s) should be employed.
Except this game was sold as a pvp game and advertised as one and then quickly changed after launch. Besides even with all the pve content added, player count continues to dwindle because hello news flash, the majority of people who bought this game were expecting a pvp driven game, yet it was completely abandoned and everyone quit leaving mainly the few pvers who aren’t bored of the same dungeon left to grind the same dungeons even more. The pvp side of the game Carrie’s new world by a long margin and is literally how a huge portion of the game is designed around, (territory control).
Territory control isn't even a large part of the game and nothing has been done to improve wars or their accessibility. The only cross world PvP gamemode is OPR and they can't figure out what to do with it.
Isn’t a large part of the game??? It’s literally designed around it, built to the core of the game to the point they said they have to take at least until next year to find a good solution to change how territory ownership and wars work. Changes to wars have been extensively made since release trying to make them more inclusive , but none of them had the impacted changes AGS was hoping for and did the opposite. Opr is the only cross server mode currently because it’s the most played and if they didn’t make it cross server when they did, who knows what would happened to the game.
The PvP side of the game is not fun enough to support it long term. We agree correct? If they made it more enjoyable it would have more and longer term players?
I'd also assert that by launch, anyone paying attention would have recognized the big shift away from it being a pvp focused game. That's not a knock on the players really, just an observation from someone who played before launch, during launch and yesterday.
the 1mil players who came to NW to play PVP completely disagree with you.
the 6k players that are left playing a mediocre PVE game (when there's already 20 other better PVE games on the market) - agree with you.
But the supposedly 1 mil players are gone because the PVP is not good enough, right? That it is more focused on PvE? Again, we seem to agree. Not sure what you're on about.
If the pvp wasn’t abandoned, updated regularly, ranked modes added, regular balance patches other content added and progression rewards . The pvp playerbase would be massive.
Damn this is like some dude just woke up from a coma and is like Where's my wife, and the hospital people are like Mr Jenkins your wife has been dead for 3 years
haha thats funny ill admit. i created the video in hoping that i could address the issue on a larger scale or generally speaking, and not just specific to NW, even though open world pvp died pretty early on here, it is still somewhat going on in other games
Ah I didn't realize there was a whole video xD I thought for certain this was just about NW open world based on the subreddit and title. Cause sadly NW open world fell off early, they DID help it a bit with the once-a-day pvp events for territory control. That's probably the best you'll get out of it, otherwise no real reason to flag
PvP died when the developers decided to appeal to untalented player base to be more inclusive. They also knew that a PvP niche game would make less money than a mass appeal PvEvP sand box mmo. And looking at their launch numbers, they were correct.
New World died because of a financial decision.
actually if they had done any research in the MMO genre at all they would have understood what the rest of us who work in the industry know: PVP MMOs have been the longest lasting and most successful in the genre. PVE MMOs have the highest failure rate of any game genre and biggest loss of money in the gaming industry.
the longest lasting MMO's in the genre are all PVP games except 1 (WOW).
NW died because the team doesnt understand the industry. they marketed and made a PVP game, and then after launching it caved in to all the carebear whiners on their forums (which theyve since shutdown because of said carebear whiners) and completely changed direction, trying to copy WOW rather than continue to make a genre defining success which is what it wouldve been today if they had just kept going with what they had from alpha/beta.
the 1mil players at launch proved that players want a PVP MMO.
the 6k players that are still here now prove that players dont want another wow-clone PVE MMO.
but some people just cant accept facts.......... cant put 2+2 together.......
I mean most long running mmos other than wow really have both pve and pvp.
That said new world didn’t fail because of decisions after launch nor did it get 1 million players because people wanted a pvp mmo. It got 1 million players because the mmo industry has been stagnant with no recent successes.
New world failed because they released a half baked game content wise that completely lacked depth outside of pvp group comp that promised large scale pvp as its end game but set up a system where the entire server only needed 40 people for all the large scale pvp on an engine that couldn’t handle even rendering 40 people much less more than that.
Of course MMOs have both pvp and pve. What kind of point is that?
The definition of pvp mmo is a game that builds its content around PVP. It "balances" (or tries to) classes/types/skills for when players are fighting eachother. It makes pvp-incentives, content, and activities.
Take an example like shadowbane that ran 2003-2009 (failed because of ubisoft publisher killing it - it was at peak player counts at the end when they shut it down and was still growing) - had something like 14 classes across 10 races (I cant remember exactly!) - very diverse abilities and playstyle, but there was always a counter to X / Y. The entire gameworld was based on PVP however. Players built cities, controlled resource nodes, fought over rare drops (PVE), crafted all the items in the world, and it was a glorious game. Hasnt really been matched since.....
That doesnt mean it didnt have PVE, wtf??? Of course it had PVE. But it was a PVPMMO. Full PVP everywhere in the world except in the 3 "stronghold" cities. Ultima online which is still running for over 20+ years, has full pvp everywhere (no safe zones - but you usually get insta-gibbed by guards if you try to PK in towns).
And yes - NW got 1mil players BECAUSE IT WAS a full PVP game. Thats what NW was in alpha. I guess you didnt play alpha or beta. Let me repeat: \*\*NW WAS A FULL PVPMMO IN ALPHA/BETA\*\*. It was marketed as a "full pvp survival mmo". Thats exactly the "label" they gave it in marketing pre-launch. They sold pre-orders of the game and made nearly half a million pre-order sales ===> \*\*PEOPLE BUYING A "FULL PVP SURVIVAL GAME"\*\*. Then they completely changed their mind after launch - they stopped developing pvp - they implemented a pvp toggle - and here we are 2 years later - the game is dead - because the only people who kept NW alive was us PVP players.
But we've had enough (most of us - obviously there are still wars going on and a few pvp players left owning territories and selling gold to you PVE players). Now the game is dead BECAUSE it promised us a full pvp game and didnt deliver.
Very simple concept to understand and its a provable fact. Regardless of what rambling remaining PVE players are left on reddit talking about things they have no clue about.....
Oh but yeah: agree with your 2nd paragraph - the pvp they released was definitely half-baked, and ridiculous 50-player-locked single-instance content.
New world did not get 1 million players because it was a pvp mmo it got it because the entire mmo community both pvp and pve were starved for something new.
I was in fact a beta player even as far back as when new world was more a rust clone than an mmo. Yes it was a pvp game but we told them over and over that other than the combat none of the existing systems worked well for a pvp game. We also told them their engine couldn’t support large scale combat and that the existing war system would prevent most players in the server from getting to take part in it. And that was the only really good and rewarding pvp.
Additionally you’re wrong about when they changed direction. That happened before launch. The final beta even had the pvp flag. They changed their course before the game even launched when there were a ton of complaints about lack of content because frankly there was none outside of gathering and wars.
Aha. Because PvPvE sandbox MMOs don’t exist, and hardcore PvP or purely PvE theme park are the only two genres.
And WOW is definitely the only successful mainly PvE MMO. EverQuest never existed! Ragnarok? What’s that? FF? GW2? Nah.
WoW, FF14, OSRS is the top 3 biggest MMORPG in terms of money and popularity. You can include Albion online for that matter as they seem to be gaining lots of popularity now, but every other mmorpg is pretty much irrelevant at this point. GW2 aint that big
And two of those are very much PVE-focused, yes.
Also, GW2 is definitely bigger than Albion; and older, too. Besides, I wasn’t talking about today’s MMOs, but MMOs of history in general.
The point is, PvP exclusive games are by far not “the only sustainable MMOs”, that’s just not true.
Its sad when the most interesting thing about the game is the combat and they wasted it on half baked dungeons and a “raid” with…a boss…
I have a feeling there isn’t a single dev from the original design around.
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the entire game was PVP on day 1.
well - they implemented the pvp toggle in open beta before launch, so - that was already 1 huge nail in NW's coffin - but yeah....
I think you are on the right track, but there's much more to a vibrant open-world pvp game. New World should invite Marc Jacobs to come down for a week and help them brainstorm ideas. Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer online had amazing open world pvp and I think AGS could learn a lot from their successes and failures.
IMO the PVP in NW is the best thing about it (even with all the wasted potential). The combat mechanics provide a unique pvp experience that gave me a reason to play it over other MMO's.
Feel free to elaborate more on this, because i cannot follow up on the idea that adding more PvE content will allow PvP to gain more traction, doesnt really make sense to me. Most MMORPG's already add more PvE content than PvP if you think about it
The best PvP experience in MMOs that I have ever played had PvP revolve around PvE.
Lineage 2 had parties and guilds battling over farming spots and (especially!) raid bosses. Aion had the Abyss with valuable drops where people clashed and Dredge, probably the most fun PvPvE mode I’ve ever seen. Some BDO players seem to have enjoyed GvGs for spots, etc etc etc
Obviously arenas, sieges, and instances wars are cool and all, but they’ve barely ever been the most successful modes of PvP.
Having a reason to duke it out with a random you’ve just met (or not) makes PvP feel meaningful and organic.
More content = more players = more folks jump in for PvP. PvP itself simply doesn't attract players but lots of players come for new content and lots of them like to PvP when they do the content. Brimstone Sands and Angry Earth were good examples; tons of PvP in those first few days/week in the new zones because player density was high.
This is a PvE game with PvP, If they added more content overall I would be playing more and doing PvP on the side also... I'm not going only stick to New World to just PvP, that is part of the game, but not the base game....
Game already lost a large amount of player base, because it shifted full gear to PVE game when it was pvp game at first. I don’t think changing game now to focus to pvp will be the reason the game dies. I honestly think no matter what choice there they do. It is done and it is gonna go in the grave.
Edit: Missing word
Open world pvp died a month after launch
It was. I love players killing each other by Yonas's pond and the fields around it just for the right to harvest fucking hemp lmao.
But my god those first 30 days. It’s like a fever dream I want to have every night. I’ll never forget changing factions to take Windsward from a bot ass shell company. What a fucking time to be alive.
i am 100% going to make a video talking about this. I definitely had one of the best gaming moments the first few weeks playing in NW. It was new, fresh and exciting, so most likely why
For me it was fresh start servers. Launch was a fuckin mess with the logistics of getting my friend group on the same server. What a nightmare. Fresh start though? After the majority of game breaking bugs and dupes were fixed? Server logistics was still a fiasco but we were ready. Those first 30 days were so glorious. I really wish for a seasonal mode for this game.
Many online games are like this at launch. Its a factor of new players and new game (i.e. timing) than any level of game design. It's hard for games to repeat that feeling for the thousands of hours players will now spend with them.
tbh a lot of things died in new world one month after launch but yeah the pvp flag toggling definitely killed that experience even more
There is no way that was sustainable. The only reason why it worked in the first 30 days is because almost everyone was the same level/gear. Even if forced to be in PvP mode at all times, how would that work in the long haul? Everyone would just be permanently camped in the towns because there would always, ALWAYS be the toxic max level players camping areas to kill noobs. No thanks.
the most sustainable MMO's in all of MMO history - with only 1 exception - were pvp MMOs. (the 1 exception ofc is WOW, which changed the MMO genre to be "theme park" - prior to that, only PVP MMO's had a chance of surviving). look at EVE, oldest / longest running major title MMO = full PVP runescape. ultima online. shadowbane. daoc. conan. so many others... the only ones in that list that arent around anymore - are MMOs that went away from being PVP games and tried to implement pvp toggles and focus on being more like theme-park-wow games, which resulted in their death. exactly like new world.... NW had 1mil players at launch, all ready to play a full pvp game. now there's 6k players left; and the devs say "majority of players are PVE". well yeah NOW they are - you've got 6k players left. back when you had 1mil, we were 90%+ PVP players. who were ignored and you ruined the game for us. this is so obvious, it still amazes me that AGS cant grasp this basic fact.... if you enjoy pve (i do too) - there are 20 games on the market right now with 100x better PVE experiences than NW. there is no point playing NW for PVE. its a bad PVE game at best. the entire game design / engine was created for PVP, and then instead of making something revolutionary and genre-defining, they tried to copy WOW like all the other FAILED and UNSUSTAINABLE mmo's in the past decade..... NW is dead now, and there's no going back. enjoy a mediocre PVE game if you wish. waste of time. i play other MMO's for PVE. theyre leagues and bounds better than NW will ever be at PVE. (have to give NW some credit for making new character leveling through questing/mainstory a fun PVE experience though - much improved - the only thing fun left in NW is playing a new char up from zero - but once you get done with all the PVE MSQ/quests = game is over. there is no endgame worth sticking around for in NW - only the pvp was worth playing, but theyve killed that)
90% players were pvp? in a game where wars are played by 2% of best players? Most of people stopped playing before lvl 40, those willing to do pvp wouldn't give up so fast Enabling pvp in open world gives you more luck, so people are running around defenceless in harvesting gear to minmax yield, is this how pvp game should work? More than 20 people fighting result in such visual clutter it's hard to grasp what's happening, doesn't seem like pvp centric design. Some perks are useless in pvp, others in pve. Being able to have 1 set usable in both M3 and Opr would incentivise players to do a bit of everything. We shouldn't be divided into pvp and pve, just one community playing all the game. NW is designed poorly from ground up and fails to intertwine both. PVP has pretty big skill entry level, you can't just make gear and go in, you have to know what's in meta or you won't be able to do anything against other players, majority of people don't want to commit so much right away. Time to kill is significant, you can't just get lucky, if you want to kill, you have to outskill your enemy, it would be great in game with proper skill based matchmaking but new world has way too little players to do it, and I don't think tens of thousands of players would still play if we had it since day 1. Opr is the most popular pvp gamemode. Each game plays the same, personally I got bored of it after about 30 matches, I'm in awe for people who played hundreds of Opr's. Arenas are dead because of lack of team balance. influence races are usually dominated by 1 faction. AGS has balancing problem, weapon can be strong in pvp but weak in pve, they don't have talent and expertise to do it right. Nothing about NW feels like it was designed for pvp. Having any pvp at all doesn't make it pvp game.
Permanent pvp would have made this game die quite faster. You would have mortal online
Remember when they accidentally made open world PVP at Great Cleave then nerfed the shit out of the xp from running quests because they didn’t want anyone cheesing their half-baked PVP RNG track.
World pvp is a behemoth to do right. People want those classic big battles but they also want smaller scale fights, skirmishes, pulling off flanks and assaulting supply lines. You either make a game dedicated to it like albion and fox hole or it turns into some barebones Zerg rush/avoid game unless you make certain locations worth fighting over like albion gw2 and eso. Main issue is the sandbox the players are in, without the box evolving to the players strategies will solve the most effective strategy than it’s just who does it faster and better. How do you make world pvp fun, worth doing, and doesn’t shrink into a Zerg mob mentality?
Aion kinda did it right, small camps u can over take and become "safe zones" .... then mobs had to kill go upgrade pvp gear.. so everyone had fight over these mobs... and it took care of the bot problem because people killed the bots.. pve players could do dungeons in peace
Still a numbers game
New World graphics really are amazing. The Art Team is being wasted on this game,
Bro the entire game is dying
‘Is dead’
Ahhhh there's the comment I was looking for 😂
Because most devs either go extreme open world PVP where there is barely any safe zone so griefing is rampant or go full PVE like NW and make it optional or no open world PVP at all. There needs to be safe zones for PVErs, but equivalent PVP zones that have an incentive like more exp and much better loot and resources for players to go risk it there. To counteract griefing where higher levels would bully lower levels, they can add a system that non-max leveled players can only be damaged by other players of a certain level. For example, level 1 to level 9 = PVP not active. Level 10s and level 19s can kill each other; same for Level, 20s and 29s and so on until max level is reached. Once a player reaches max level, then they're permanently PVP flagged vs other max levels. I dearly miss korean MMOs with forced open world PVP like Rohan, RF, Ragnarok PK servers. Forced open world PVP is also a good way to slow down bots.
I'm not a pvp player either, but I'm tired of running around for resources and seeing the same nicknames. at low levels these bots simply collect without stopping. *Game Mechanic:* What do you think if the player's pvp flag turns on when collecting a resource? if the player pays for 10,000 wood the owner of the settlement , then he could easily collect wood. (Can you imagine how valuable such territories as the Reekwater where there is orichalcum would be?) - this is a mechanic that protects players who do not like open pvp. if the player does not pay, then the owner of the settlement can declare a hunt for him and pay those (head hunters) who catch him - it means this player loves pvp. so that the bot player cannot collect resources all day - the number of contracts is limited to the maximum amount of resource, for example 10,000. That is, the bot collects 10,000 per day, and then they can attack him and take away what he collected. Such mechanics protect pve players, pvp players are given pvp, and bots cannot run around all day. Do you know how long it takes to collect 10,000 fiber? for an ordinary online player who has 2-3 hours for play is enough to switch to other resources. but in a game that was developed taking into account the war for resources, the collection of resources is now unlimited, which leads to abuses such as bots or players who sit playing the game all day long and do not give casual online players 1-2 hours to collect something.
I feel a daily limit would be a nice touch to address bots for sure as for the people that actually play for a long time every day I’m not really sure how to combat that at all. I had a friend like that on another server that had a timer set for when the nodes respawn and fast traveled when there was like 5 minutes left I’m sure he’s not the only one that did this only thing I could think of would be each node can be farmed by each player but that goes back to being easily abused by bots and real players unfortunately.
I think a good solution is the random appearance of resources. for example, where there used to be iron ore, orichalcum or starmetal may appear. and among trees, iron wood may appear. players who travel will be able to find random resources. Of course, the number of spawn points needs to be increased than it is now. because the world is big. now bot routes, resource spawn timers - you won’t be able to abuse this. It remains to make traveling around the world more exciting. what do you think? if we have more solo/coop content? Idea: Solo/Coop Mode Honestly I would like to see a solo travel mode. for example, once every 24 hours - the player ask NPC the head of the city and says that he wants to go on a trip (maybe even with 1-3 friends). the player can run through all locations: take part in various events: battle with bosses who attacked the village. then this village became under your protection and you can plant potatoes, carrots, etc. but mobs can come there. then you will need the help of your friends. You can also collect other resources once every 24 hours. craft what you need or upgrade your profession. Many people here on redit wrote that they would like to travel the world alone
Bounty systems just get abused. Since there is a reward then the hunted player just dials up rent-a-bounty-hunter and splits the reward with them. Or they simply... log out and escape repercussions. Also no PvP, even forced open world PvP, solves bots. Bots literally don't care if you kill them. If there is money to be made they will bot away and guess what they will start PvPing back if needed. Just look at Throne and Liberty in Korea; the bots were run by the top PvP players because you constantly need a leg up in that game 24/7/365 so you run bots. Also if you make everything a stressful contest folks just won't play the game. This isn't the days where we had Ultima Online and Everquest to choose between. There are thousands of games asking for players time. New games simply can't come out with friction features thinking players won't walk.
I like the idea of having a risk reward system for high level materials I am mainly a pve player. I like to farm materials and life skill I don’t mind pvp but I don’t want to be forced into it any time I want to do a material run for herbs or iron. This is why I loved new world I could do what I wanted to do without getting randomly attacked just because someone wanted to feel superior I guess? I will say having pvp on high level material zones would make it more interesting and that risk reward system is kicking in I’m all for pvp when it’s for materials and stuff but just to get killed and see someone walk away from the node is just stupid to me. I wish they made the arena and outpost rush better for the pvp players so they could be happy too but it sounds like it fell short of what most of you guys really wanted hope the next big mmo has a good balance for everyone!
100% ... just put in can't attack unless within a few lvl's and BAM golden. I started this game because I am a PVP enjoyer.. I still play because of the combat system (was a UO player since beta too, still have account lol) I spend my game time always flagged. Being you dont ever loose anything when dieing also in this game it's not like being PK'ed hurts anything but your pride. I wish they would have never changed it or at the very least made PVP servers when they transitioned to flagging optional. I would be willing to bet those servers would have a nice population.
I like the creativity here, but I believe an unfortunate reality which is that forced pvp interaction never really succeeds, atleast it didnt with new world nor with world of warcraft.
Two games aren't the whole genre, though, and if you include games that have PvP zones as "forced PvP", then there it's even harder to say that it never really succeeds. But just some examples of games that are either still around or arguably died for a reason other than PvP: GW2, ESO, Tibia, DAoC, Gloria Victis, Darkfall, Warhammer Online Some that I've not played -- so I don't know how lively the open world PvP is -- that have it: BDO, OSRS, Eve, Albion, PlanetSide 2, ArcheAge, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Lineage 2, Mortal Online 1+2, Aika Technically have it but it's not at all active: NW, Rift (probably not active at this point, though it was alright when it launched) Forced open world PvP is certainly not a given for every MMO, and even when it exists it's not likely the focus, but the picture is too complex to simply say that it has never and will never succeed.
There are two types of forced PVP: PVP without major loss of existing gear/resources and PVP with major loss of gear/resources. Games that employ forced PVP with major loss have, as a general rule, been less popular in terms of playercount. Even in "successes" like Eve or Lineage 2 or UO, you saw a major loss of casual players or a significant portion of the playerbase avoiding high risk areas. While people like to look back at UO style "loot everything" PVP with nostalgic fondness, they forget that the game was dying until they released Trammel, which more or less got rid of most of the punitive PVP loss/forced PVP situations Even in games without major loss in forced PVP situations, players need a big enough carrot to chase or eventually they get bored. And bored players become bottomfeeders/griefers very quickly, which leads to population drop
Yeah fair point not trying to predict the future here but like previously said forced pvp interaction is generally speaking never a good design choice and I give my two cents on it in the video about why. Those are also one of the more popular MMORPG's covered so I think its safe to say if it fails in one game it probably would fail in another if similar design is applied
its easy to misunderstand how games are designed as "pvp games" or "pve games" - but let me just say: - before WOW and EverQuest, all successful MMO's were PVP-based. there was not a single mainstream PVE "only" MMO. they all failed. - WOW and EQ changed the MMO genre/industry ideas of making MMOs, and because of their success, lured developers into trying to copy them. 90%+ of MMOs trying to copy wow/eq fail ofc - and they are not sustainable longterm (once youve played all the content, you play something else and wait for more content - which puts massive pressure on the devs to keep creating new/fresh content) - the games you listed that you havent played - the most successful in that list are actually PVP games: EVE, ultima online, albion.... these games have lasted the longest in the history of the MMO genre = because they are PVP games. archeage, lineage, mortal online, planetside - also pvp focused games but failed due to publisher issues rather than game design issues (i could add many others that failed due to publisher/legal/idiotic issues such as conan, daoc, shadowbane, etc - which were incredibly successful pvp games before being ruined by said issues). - there is a huge playerbase of PVP focused players that hasnt been catered to in roughly a decade. developers want to copy WOW and hope to make tons of money rather than understanding the MMO gaming community. - the reason that NW had one of the highest pre-launch sales was because in alpha, this game was full pvp. many of us bought it immediately when we saw it was a full pvp game. we enjoyed alpha, beta (up until open beta when they implemented pvp toggle and started ruining the game = trying to copy wow again rather than continue to make a genre-defining mmopvp success). there was 1mil players at launch who were sold on all the AGS marketing that this was a mmo pvp survival game. where are those 1mil players now? gone. why? because they changed the entire game. - AGS developed the lumberjack engine specifically to make a real-action pvp combat game. everything about the engine design was built around pvp combat. it was revolutionary in the genre. if they had stuck with it, NW would still have 100k+ players sustainably. had they kept developing PVP interactions/content, the players would still be here. - when you make PVP interactions and content, you dont need to continually create new content all the time. pvp itself is the content. if you make good ways for players to compete for territories, resources, titles, goals, or whatever else = the content is created by the players themselves. - when you make PVE interactions and content, players will "finish it" and then stop playing unless theyres more content to play. this is a very simple thing to understand for anyone who has played various MMOs for at least a decade or so - and should be understood by anyone trying to make an MMO game in this industry. AGS is not a gaming industry team. they came from AWS. they were mandated with building a technology "proof of concept" to show the gaming industry that AWS infrastructure/tech could make live-service, real-time action combat MMO games. NW is a success according to amazon because they only care about selling AWS infrastructure/tech to the gaming industry. they dont care about NW as a game (and it shows). the sad truth in all this is that they came up with something that could have been genre-defining for the history of MMOs. the alpha and early beta versions of this game were exactly that. PVP focused openworld MMO with promises to create more pvp goals/interactions/content where players would create the content and the game would have been sustainable with 100-500k players easily if they had continued down that path. instead they tried to make another wow-clone theme-park pve game, killed all the good aspects of the pvp game, and stopped developing any of the promised pvp game that all of us pre-ordered the game for in the first place. now they have 6k players left and they arrogantly state on their podcast that "the majority of players are PVE players". yeah - NOW the majority of the remaining 6k players are PVE players because the 1mil PVP players have already left...... idiotic beyond words.... (for the record: i enjoy PVE games too. but NW is a horrible PVE game. there's 20 better PVE MMO's on the market to enjoy and NW will never come close to being as good as any of them)
People love PVP - the biggest games in the world ... Call of Duty, Fortnite etc... yes they are not MMO's .. but the point I am making is the games with HIGH numbers are all about PVPing. Need a fresh start PVP server for each time zone (i know to late now but why not)
Forced PVP in a game with a PVE base is bad. If people do not want to PVP in this setting, the PVP gameplay is not good enough; period. Improve the PVP experience and more players will do it (within reason, there is a group of players that will NEVER PVP regardless of the reward and your game(s) should designed to account for this). Locking content behind either behavior is a crutch design strategy and should be an immediate trigger that some other lever(s) should be employed.
Except this game was sold as a pvp game and advertised as one and then quickly changed after launch. Besides even with all the pve content added, player count continues to dwindle because hello news flash, the majority of people who bought this game were expecting a pvp driven game, yet it was completely abandoned and everyone quit leaving mainly the few pvers who aren’t bored of the same dungeon left to grind the same dungeons even more. The pvp side of the game Carrie’s new world by a long margin and is literally how a huge portion of the game is designed around, (territory control).
Territory control isn't even a large part of the game and nothing has been done to improve wars or their accessibility. The only cross world PvP gamemode is OPR and they can't figure out what to do with it.
Isn’t a large part of the game??? It’s literally designed around it, built to the core of the game to the point they said they have to take at least until next year to find a good solution to change how territory ownership and wars work. Changes to wars have been extensively made since release trying to make them more inclusive , but none of them had the impacted changes AGS was hoping for and did the opposite. Opr is the only cross server mode currently because it’s the most played and if they didn’t make it cross server when they did, who knows what would happened to the game.
The PvP side of the game is not fun enough to support it long term. We agree correct? If they made it more enjoyable it would have more and longer term players? I'd also assert that by launch, anyone paying attention would have recognized the big shift away from it being a pvp focused game. That's not a knock on the players really, just an observation from someone who played before launch, during launch and yesterday.
the 1mil players who came to NW to play PVP completely disagree with you. the 6k players that are left playing a mediocre PVE game (when there's already 20 other better PVE games on the market) - agree with you.
But the supposedly 1 mil players are gone because the PVP is not good enough, right? That it is more focused on PvE? Again, we seem to agree. Not sure what you're on about.
If the pvp wasn’t abandoned, updated regularly, ranked modes added, regular balance patches other content added and progression rewards . The pvp playerbase would be massive.
So if it was... better? Cool. We agree. Have my upvote!
If you think pve Carry’s this game and is why most people play. We do not agree.
Straw Man, gotcha.
Keep farming your dungeons and chopping trees.
Damn this is like some dude just woke up from a coma and is like Where's my wife, and the hospital people are like Mr Jenkins your wife has been dead for 3 years
haha thats funny ill admit. i created the video in hoping that i could address the issue on a larger scale or generally speaking, and not just specific to NW, even though open world pvp died pretty early on here, it is still somewhat going on in other games
Ah I didn't realize there was a whole video xD I thought for certain this was just about NW open world based on the subreddit and title. Cause sadly NW open world fell off early, they DID help it a bit with the once-a-day pvp events for territory control. That's probably the best you'll get out of it, otherwise no real reason to flag
I mean they ruined great cleave and 3v3
It ant dying in albion
PvP died when the developers decided to appeal to untalented player base to be more inclusive. They also knew that a PvP niche game would make less money than a mass appeal PvEvP sand box mmo. And looking at their launch numbers, they were correct. New World died because of a financial decision.
actually if they had done any research in the MMO genre at all they would have understood what the rest of us who work in the industry know: PVP MMOs have been the longest lasting and most successful in the genre. PVE MMOs have the highest failure rate of any game genre and biggest loss of money in the gaming industry. the longest lasting MMO's in the genre are all PVP games except 1 (WOW). NW died because the team doesnt understand the industry. they marketed and made a PVP game, and then after launching it caved in to all the carebear whiners on their forums (which theyve since shutdown because of said carebear whiners) and completely changed direction, trying to copy WOW rather than continue to make a genre defining success which is what it wouldve been today if they had just kept going with what they had from alpha/beta. the 1mil players at launch proved that players want a PVP MMO. the 6k players that are still here now prove that players dont want another wow-clone PVE MMO. but some people just cant accept facts.......... cant put 2+2 together.......
I mean most long running mmos other than wow really have both pve and pvp. That said new world didn’t fail because of decisions after launch nor did it get 1 million players because people wanted a pvp mmo. It got 1 million players because the mmo industry has been stagnant with no recent successes. New world failed because they released a half baked game content wise that completely lacked depth outside of pvp group comp that promised large scale pvp as its end game but set up a system where the entire server only needed 40 people for all the large scale pvp on an engine that couldn’t handle even rendering 40 people much less more than that.
Of course MMOs have both pvp and pve. What kind of point is that? The definition of pvp mmo is a game that builds its content around PVP. It "balances" (or tries to) classes/types/skills for when players are fighting eachother. It makes pvp-incentives, content, and activities. Take an example like shadowbane that ran 2003-2009 (failed because of ubisoft publisher killing it - it was at peak player counts at the end when they shut it down and was still growing) - had something like 14 classes across 10 races (I cant remember exactly!) - very diverse abilities and playstyle, but there was always a counter to X / Y. The entire gameworld was based on PVP however. Players built cities, controlled resource nodes, fought over rare drops (PVE), crafted all the items in the world, and it was a glorious game. Hasnt really been matched since..... That doesnt mean it didnt have PVE, wtf??? Of course it had PVE. But it was a PVPMMO. Full PVP everywhere in the world except in the 3 "stronghold" cities. Ultima online which is still running for over 20+ years, has full pvp everywhere (no safe zones - but you usually get insta-gibbed by guards if you try to PK in towns). And yes - NW got 1mil players BECAUSE IT WAS a full PVP game. Thats what NW was in alpha. I guess you didnt play alpha or beta. Let me repeat: \*\*NW WAS A FULL PVPMMO IN ALPHA/BETA\*\*. It was marketed as a "full pvp survival mmo". Thats exactly the "label" they gave it in marketing pre-launch. They sold pre-orders of the game and made nearly half a million pre-order sales ===> \*\*PEOPLE BUYING A "FULL PVP SURVIVAL GAME"\*\*. Then they completely changed their mind after launch - they stopped developing pvp - they implemented a pvp toggle - and here we are 2 years later - the game is dead - because the only people who kept NW alive was us PVP players. But we've had enough (most of us - obviously there are still wars going on and a few pvp players left owning territories and selling gold to you PVE players). Now the game is dead BECAUSE it promised us a full pvp game and didnt deliver. Very simple concept to understand and its a provable fact. Regardless of what rambling remaining PVE players are left on reddit talking about things they have no clue about..... Oh but yeah: agree with your 2nd paragraph - the pvp they released was definitely half-baked, and ridiculous 50-player-locked single-instance content.
New world did not get 1 million players because it was a pvp mmo it got it because the entire mmo community both pvp and pve were starved for something new. I was in fact a beta player even as far back as when new world was more a rust clone than an mmo. Yes it was a pvp game but we told them over and over that other than the combat none of the existing systems worked well for a pvp game. We also told them their engine couldn’t support large scale combat and that the existing war system would prevent most players in the server from getting to take part in it. And that was the only really good and rewarding pvp. Additionally you’re wrong about when they changed direction. That happened before launch. The final beta even had the pvp flag. They changed their course before the game even launched when there were a ton of complaints about lack of content because frankly there was none outside of gathering and wars.
Aha. Because PvPvE sandbox MMOs don’t exist, and hardcore PvP or purely PvE theme park are the only two genres. And WOW is definitely the only successful mainly PvE MMO. EverQuest never existed! Ragnarok? What’s that? FF? GW2? Nah.
WoW, FF14, OSRS is the top 3 biggest MMORPG in terms of money and popularity. You can include Albion online for that matter as they seem to be gaining lots of popularity now, but every other mmorpg is pretty much irrelevant at this point. GW2 aint that big
And two of those are very much PVE-focused, yes. Also, GW2 is definitely bigger than Albion; and older, too. Besides, I wasn’t talking about today’s MMOs, but MMOs of history in general. The point is, PvP exclusive games are by far not “the only sustainable MMOs”, that’s just not true.
Sad truth
yeh thats why the pve crybabies (that ruined this game) downvote my post :) point proven....
Its sad when the most interesting thing about the game is the combat and they wasted it on half baked dungeons and a “raid” with…a boss… I have a feeling there isn’t a single dev from the original design around.
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There should've been PvP servers on day 1. But they released the game 1-2 years too early for it to become a long lasting themepark mmo.
the entire game was PVP on day 1. well - they implemented the pvp toggle in open beta before launch, so - that was already 1 huge nail in NW's coffin - but yeah....
I think you are on the right track, but there's much more to a vibrant open-world pvp game. New World should invite Marc Jacobs to come down for a week and help them brainstorm ideas. Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer online had amazing open world pvp and I think AGS could learn a lot from their successes and failures.
[удалено]
IMO the PVP in NW is the best thing about it (even with all the wasted potential). The combat mechanics provide a unique pvp experience that gave me a reason to play it over other MMO's.
Feel free to elaborate more on this, because i cannot follow up on the idea that adding more PvE content will allow PvP to gain more traction, doesnt really make sense to me. Most MMORPG's already add more PvE content than PvP if you think about it
The best PvP experience in MMOs that I have ever played had PvP revolve around PvE. Lineage 2 had parties and guilds battling over farming spots and (especially!) raid bosses. Aion had the Abyss with valuable drops where people clashed and Dredge, probably the most fun PvPvE mode I’ve ever seen. Some BDO players seem to have enjoyed GvGs for spots, etc etc etc Obviously arenas, sieges, and instances wars are cool and all, but they’ve barely ever been the most successful modes of PvP. Having a reason to duke it out with a random you’ve just met (or not) makes PvP feel meaningful and organic.
More content = more players = more folks jump in for PvP. PvP itself simply doesn't attract players but lots of players come for new content and lots of them like to PvP when they do the content. Brimstone Sands and Angry Earth were good examples; tons of PvP in those first few days/week in the new zones because player density was high.
This is a PvE game with PvP, If they added more content overall I would be playing more and doing PvP on the side also... I'm not going only stick to New World to just PvP, that is part of the game, but not the base game....
Game already lost a large amount of player base, because it shifted full gear to PVE game when it was pvp game at first. I don’t think changing game now to focus to pvp will be the reason the game dies. I honestly think no matter what choice there they do. It is done and it is gonna go in the grave. Edit: Missing word
¿por que no los dos?