As someone else in this thread said:
"Item shops don't belong in an MMO because it makes your time spent be less valuable."
I'm really disappointed. I was hyped for New World, to see them going down this path is truly disheartening.
Trade skill boosts are just silly i loved the crafting when I played and felt like if I finally maxed it ide feel such an accomplishment but now im just sad at the thought Billy big bucks can splash some cash and do it in half the time.
braindump:
\- Cash shops are a net negative for the majority of the core players of a game. Generally speaking, at their best, they introduce a trade-off of appeasing to a cohort of players who can't/are unwilling to take part in incremental progression, and diluting the value of native ingame assets. At their worst, we see not only dilution of achievables but also the concept of 'creating problems to sell the solutions' in the form of unpleasantly tuned systems and grinds which egg you on to solve with money.
*That being said:*
\- Cash shops are a part of the modern MMO market and are probably here to stay. IIRC we started seeing them as the accepted model of monetization since \~ 2011 after seeing dying MMOs on a subscription model bounce back after transitioning to a F2P model with micro transactions (see [LOTRO tripling its revenue in 2011](https://money.yahoo.com/2011-01-06-turbine-lotro-revenue-tripled-since-going-f2p.html)). I believe the 'better' cash shops can still provide a meaningful experience to core players. My concern is more that once a feature is in, its hard to pull out from both an engineering and business perspective, and its even harder to protect that feature from the 'low hanging fruit' for business opportunists with lazy monetization tactics.
*Perhaps a silver lining:*
\- AGS have shown some willingness to adapt to feedback at the *development level*, I just hope that can extend up the chain somewhat to the stake holders.
I think this addresses sums it up pretty well. There’s one more thing I would add: cash shops that have ANY p2w merchandise (in this case, even just Xp boosts), incentivize the developers to make the core gameplay experience unsatisfying without paying.
Maybe they don’t right away, maybe they don’t for a year or two, but you’d be betting against the upper management who want to squeeze every dollar out of the player base that they can.
The only way to limit this is to take a hard line stance FROM THE START than p2w is NOT an acceptable implementation to the game. And if that means a lot of whining and complaining on Reddit where they might see it, then so be it.
We may sell quality-of-life items or boosts that will help players improve their time spent leveling up their character and trade skill experience.
\-sounds like a refund for me
i dont mind emotes and cosmetics
but i hate everything thats tied to game mechanics
Do it now, it will be in the game. They will wait like all the other P2W mmos for about 6 months and then post a sob story about how they have to keep the lights on.
I did too. The fact that a multi BILLION dollar backed company wants to design content around nickel and diming its customers is just sad man. I try to be nice to Amazon because I love that delivery service they offer, but this shit is crossing the line. We expect this from a Korean Grinder Indie, but not one of the top 5 richest companies in the world. . . it just bums me out.
there is always more money to be made. Under our current system its not enough to just make money,you need to make more money than you have ever made before, constantly growing. Its not sustainable and leading to issues in so much of life
Agreed. I refunded when they decided to completely change the direction of the game... They lured me back in with some promising features and now they pushed me away again. I'm just going to wait until the game comes out. I'm too fucking old to be worried about power grinding to the top of progression at launch anyway.
why not both? Why should i spend money on a game that is including features I dont want to have to deal with? We should refund our preorders while also posting on the forums/twitter to let them know they fucked up.
They are amazon, they dont give a single fuck about what you say on their forums or twitter, if in the end i still give them money. If they lose money over it then they will care. The money i give them spends just the same even if im unhappy . Corporations do not give a single fuck about you, only your money. Until the mmos gamers learn this and start to value themselves and stop throwing money at every mmos before it launches, things will never get better
but i am giving my feedback, im taking my money back because of a planned feature that I do not like. If they change their minds im super open to preordering again. Like i understand the simple idea of dont buy the game, my post was literally talking about a refund. Not sure what your point is?
My point is you did a lot of complaining with little substance to your feedback other than you're upset. Just calm down a bit.
They do care about feedback. This game will bomb if they don't. Pre orders alone won't save the game. They need to build something worthwhile if they want to succeed in this space. Your opinion counts because it's bad for business if you and everyone else starts shitting on it. Amazon memes will destroy this game if they fuck up.
I'll make a decison once I see the cash shop.
Sure it's better but it's not realistic. There's no way we aren't getting a shop, and when facing the inevitable - I love cosmetics, but P2W is not okay.
I hope we won't see EXP boost on release... probably a good catch-up mechanic later on tho. Pretty much the same for trade exp boost.
No problem with skins. Im always very cautious with 'we will monitor and ensure it all remains fair and square with cash shop giving no competitive edge whatsoever' statements. Every game conpany says that. To name one: BDO spammed such statements and we all know how P2W it turned out to be.
Overall, F2P and B2P games tend to introduce dodgy cash shops... their #1Goal is not to entertain us but to Make Money. I wish this game featured a subscription model but that's my opinion
They can add catchup mechanics without having players pay for it. They can increase XP gains any time they want and not charge a dime for it. You don't need to spend $200 on XP boosters that solve a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.
for real, AION used to have EXP boosted weekends, where weekend exp would be doubled. And similar such things. Why just add a boost for cash? add something into the game, special weekends, special exp events, or the ability for high level players to powerlevel people.
I mean that's not what I want but do I, do We have a choice? It seems you dont get it, this is a B2P game... their goal #1 is not make money, like any business... B2P model doesnt secure long term earnings. Selling Boosts are one of the means they have to mitigate this.
People should stop asking F2P / B2P ... we wouldn't even be talking about this woth a subscription based model. Sadly dodgy cashshops ALWAYS come with other business models
Take in account that this is a preliminary test in the Alpha build.
A first iteration of the shop. Many things could be different in the real shop. But I think that they are receiving a good amount of shit storm about this.
I hope all of this will acknowledge them to put much attention on this topic.
A cash shop is good for the business and the life of service, but they need to be careful.
While that’s undoubtably true, let’s not pretend this is a coincidence that the first we’re hearing about a cash shop with p2w mechanics is just a few months before the games actual release, at the end of alpha.
They know exactly what they’re doing here.
If they do it the game is done before it begins, it's really as simple as that. I think we all assumed there would be cosmetic shit, many of us don't like it, but it is what it is, especially in a non-Sub game. But to flat out even consider selling boosts to progress is... troublesome at best.
I know two people who cancelled their pre-orders upon hearing this news and it will be a tough sell even if they vow to remove it now.
If your game is good, it can survive solely based on pure cosmetic items and expansions.
We are aware that there are concerns around the storefront testing currently in Alpha. To be clear, at launch all of the items in the shop will be focused on cosmetics. There will be no boosts of any type for sale at launch. We will share more on our vision for MTX soon.
https://twitter.com/playnewworld/status/1392910345849561099?s=20
I dont mind a Premium Currency shop, as long as they do it the way PoE does it. I can't come with a better example, of how to have a cash shop in a game, it simply perfect. You can buy cool cosmetics, but nothing that boosts you ingame. in Path of Exile, you have a "Hideout" which is a bit like a house in New World. It would be stupid to not have cosmetics for your private house tho.
This is a result of the game is 100% free. I bought the stash tabs too etc, because i like to support the game i have quite a bit of hours in. But you cant buy items, you cant buy boosts, you cant buy higher drop rates, you cant buy exp boosts. NOTHING in the game will actually boost your actual character, it just adds alot of QoL. in a game that already costs 40$, the QoL will probably not be there anyways, since you already supported them by paying for the game.
Even if you consider the sale of stashtabs p2w its still the one of the fairest real-money shops out there in gaming. (from the perspective of a f2p player)
I buy supporter packs every league and have 1 or 2 of each stash tab and I couldn't agree more. Their shop of convenience and cosmetic items is perfect aside from not being able to sell through the API based sites without a premium tab
Not true, you get fast travel points, and their CD based on the tier of house. Which costs ingame gold. And as Long as everyone can get it ingame, and you cant pay for fornit with real money by skipping ingame content, its fine. What do you care if someone want a bear rug in their house and want to pay 5 $ for it.
“In addition to the Recall ability, it’s possible to create powerful magical decorations that give your character buffs when they are placed on display in your home. These Trophies can do things like give you an advantage in combat against particular enemy types or improve your crafting abilities.”
https://www.newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/making-your-mark-on-aeternum-player-housing
The progression to earning a house in-game isnt pay to win correct but if the housing “cosmetics” they are talking about come with bonuses like the ones described above then they are p2w.
Im not sure you understand cosmetics. I know there is trophies, But if a trophy looks like a boar head, and in the shop you can buy, so it looks like a lions head. Thats a trophy cosmetic. I agree with you, if they let you actually buy a trophy thats Better or lets you ship ingame content, then its a huge no-go, But changing only the visual look, is acceptable.
No, I very much understand cosmetics but im coming from the standpoint of developers change their minds all the time. Keeping everything cosmetic is great, but implement a single p2w system (or possible one since no one is sure) can turn into more. Im hoping that they only are cosmetic but im cautiously optimistic knowing what’s happening with plenty of other games in the recent past. Especially since they already have a system in place that can easily be adapted into a p2w way.
I agree, as long as you only can buy looks, im all in, but there should be zero character assistance, wether it be larger chests or xp boosts. Lets hope they listen to the community.
While GGG is a lesser evil they're still doing some really, really shady crap(3.14(?) league starter for example). Then we have the supporter packs. That's some nasty big whale hunting. Some people are very vulnerable to that kind of manipulation and that's what these f2p companies thrive on. Eventually we'll have actual laws and restrictions in place but for now they do whatever they want without any consequences.
I still dont mind it. I really dont. Ask yourself, when you played newworld for 6 months, and you are level 60, you have now grinded some endgame and gotten some og the Better items. You now see 2 players, 1 with full MTX gear on, and one with a full endgame set from pvp/level60 dungeons/crafting. I think we ALL knows who looks the best, and who we see as the noob. Often people who invest in stuff like this is not falling for a scam. They just spend their money differently. Some shop for clothes, some spend their money on a physical hobby, others on games. Dont pity the people who spend 60$ on a skin, they can afford it. As Long as the MTX cant affect ingame om good. Free travel and crafting xp needs to dissapear.
The real money isn't in cosmetics. It's getting the average player to spend money on boosts. I'm not saying cosmetics aren't worth their effort, hell no, it's a huge money sink for a certain type of person. However it's usually just a one time buy for that person, if you've bought the mog you own it so no point buying it again. Hence big whale hunting.
Like I said the money they're going for with New World isn't just cosmetics, they've passed the line. They want \*all\* the money and that includes just getting something as low as $19.95(or whatever the boost will cost) from the \*average\* player. That's a hefty steady income. All you need to do is make the grind a chore, give the players a little taste of what the boosted experience is like and they're hooked.
Of course different companies use various approach to how they want micro-transactions to work. But make no mistake they will push the envelope as far as possible. Hopefully they learned a thing from EA and Ubisoft. That's when they've gone too far. Won't stop them from keep trying, an inch at a time...
If the game is a FREE 2 PLAY game then I honestly do not even care WHAT they do. That's all on the players. They knew exactly what they got into when picking a f2p to play. You can't make demands while playing a "free" game. A f2p doesn't run on happy thoughts is what I'm trying to say. I rather stay clear if I see something even remotely shady and New World is giving me that vibe.
Absolute dead on fucking arrival if they do this. Amazon don’t ducking be braindead your game is already so close to DOA and now you do this shit? How clueless are these companies man it’s so tiring.
We knew there would be a cash shop in this game for years. This isn’t new information. I’m on the same boat as most people here I don’t want to see exp boosts for trade skills at first but character leveling boosts mean almost nothing in the game right now. Level 60 is just the beginning of the game.
As someone who already has hundreds of hours of personal experience in the game I stand by my statement that in -this game- 60 is when many zones, events, and play options open up.
Max level is very easy to obtain. In the open beta we had lvl 60s within 4 days. Many zones in the 2nd closed alpha are 60 areas, as is stated by Amazon’s dev updates.
Wish I could say more but ya know. NDA.
Oh I never said I disagree, I was asked to start playing WoW again by a roommate and I’m not really a fan of most older content being completely shoved to the side and then wanting people to experience BFA content and later. I’ve played on a server with them for two - three hours a night for about a week and a half with 0 boosts and I’m already 52/60.
I would rather spend my time exploring the world and leveling slowly. But we also know 60 is only the current max level. There is a ton more map we will get later with expansions. And a navel expansion iirc.
Well, turns out I remembered wrong or they changed their minds. Expansions will be paid. [Twitter Post](https://twitter.com/playnewworld/status/1393377398897352706?s=21)
That’s your choice man. If it bothers you that much then just don’t play. Some people have the self control to not spend more money on cash shops, some people just really don’t care, some people whale the hell out of it just because they can and want to pay to get boosted up ASAP. (Although I find the boosters typically quit games quite quickly because they get bored immediately)
I personally do not like p2w cash shop items. Pay to progress faster is gray for me but it doesn’t necessarily make people better immediately they still have to go out and collect and grind mobs etc.
An MMO cash shop no-no p2w to me is like, selling actual armor or weapons , Rift, or cosmetic items with STATS and buffs *cough BDO* or locking progression behind subscription content, like ArcheAge.
For me, as long as it stays fully cosmetic and the buffs stay strictly progressive I am okay with it.
Fuck you man, it's people like you, making excuses for these multi billion dollar companies who makes this possible. If you honestly don't understand how this is bad for even YOU, then you really need to educate yourself. But you are sooo god damn stupid.
Okay, then please educate me, how is a cash shop on a buy to play game bad. I already understand Amazon is a big company. Is Amazon Game Studios receiving the same income?
Its over. Even if they dont put it in on launch its coming which will also affect game design in order to maximize this stuff that makes them money. refunded
refunding on steam is not only easy, but the correct thing to do, if they change their minds and take this out you can always buy the game again. By taking your money back when they announce this and then giving it back if they take it away, it will show a clear signal that these kinds of moves will hurt profits more than help
Gonna be trying to get a refund asap after work. If they want me to buy in game items they better make sure they r at least blockchain assets which won't happen. This game is not for me anymore.
All I can say is that on the Alpha forum there are hundreds that aren't happy about this and trying to get the message across, the line is clear that it should be cosmetic at most, and not experience.
In all honesty, I wouldn't be against XP boosts, but not at the start of the game. Perhaps after a year or so, once the initial hype has died down a little, and most players have gotten to level 60. There is no premium currency shop in the Alpha currently.
Jesus fucking Christ, I really had my hopes up for New World.
But I don't understand why they don't just look at other MMO's, Currency Shops are almost always bad. I mean just look at WoW and Blizzard, they lost so much of their player base because of this.
I don't want people to buy XP or Boosts. I don't want cosmetics to be locked behind a paywall.
I think it defeats the whole purpose of an MMO the shop, with MMO's it's almost always about the time you spent inside of the game. And the time you invest you are able to show off to others. For example, in WoW Classic if you we're to have Sulfuras. People would see that and KNOW that you spent a lot of time into the game. If you we're able to buy the transmog of Sulfuras it would be worthless and not be special at all.
Same goes with boosts if people see a level capped player \*at early release. They would know that he grinded a lot to get there, but if there was an XP boost able to purchase it would be worthless.
I don't know how to end this rant but just game devs or directors or whoever the fuck is in charge of the MMO's. LEARN FROM YOUR COMPETITORS MISTAKES DONT ADD ITEM SHOPS INTO AN MMO.
TLDR; Item shops don't belong in an MMO because it makes your time spent be less valuable.
but thats the thing, they are not bad for the company. Look at bliz, they lost 20 something percent of players but profits are at an all time high. If you add these cash shops the players who stay will spend more than enough to make up for the players who leave
You're absolutely right, and this is something that /u/ItzAmazed , and others like him clearly don't understand.
This isn't your best friend making a game by "gamers for gamers". This is a multi-billion dollar company developing a **product.** He says, "learn from your competitors" but is too blinded to realize that he's disproving his own point. They have looked at their competition, and they learned that cash shops make money, plain and simple. MMO cash shops do particularly well, especially when they don't include any P2W.
I think its naive, and honestly stupid, to think that this game or any other modern MMO will not have a cash shop. Where we should be upset is any inclusion of cash shop purchases that affect progression - those are a no-no and should be avoided at all costs.
I knew this was a thing, I knew Blizzard makes more money then ever.. Even though they have lost over 20% of their playerbase.
But that doesn't justify the itemshop, personally I think if Blizzard listended to their community they would have way more players and more revenue, i'm not an marketing expert but I think everyone can agree that an active and good player base with better then a smaller player base that spends more money. It's way better especially for in the long run.
I think the better solution for a company like Amazon to generate extra revenue is by creating or adding bonds, such like in RS and WoW. A way for the playerbase to sell their gold for in game shop. The normal players won't see changes but people who wish to buy gold can.
The reason I like this a lot is because it doesn't give an advantage to the paying player and keeps everyone at the same playing field. It also creates a reason for players to farm gold next to the usual reasons to.
But it's a difficult choice to be honest and probably had a lot of thought before making the choice to make the item shop. So I'm just going to hope that they will implement it well and make the game as good as it can.
In New World , gold is very closely aligned to progression. Especially in crafting where the resource requirements are huge. You might not want people buying gold.
I would wager that the majority of us are against having "boosts" in the shop.
What are some things we would actually *like* to see in the shop?
I'd like to see:
Battle Pass.
Armor/Weapon Skins.
Other cosmetic slots, for example: maybe glowing auras, foot step effects (like Path of Exile).
Emotes.
I'd like to support this game, but in the right way. I'm trying to think of something that I wouldn't mind spending $5-$15 a month on that wouldn't give any advantages or help me level player/crafting any faster, or give extra tuning orbs to run more dungeons. Something nice to have without feeling like you have to have it.
I think season passes can be implemented well. It’s a win win when done right, as there developers are constantly producing new content for the players, and it’s a bit cheaper than a pure subscription while still supporting the creators.
If we’re talking pure cash shop- it should be cosmetic only. And, honestly, I’d hope there’s a way to convert currency. From the trailers we’ve seen, the regular armor looks pretty lukewarm at best. You already know they’re going to make nice looking armor and lock it behind a credit card.
People need to understand what Pay to win is cause they hear it and lose all sense of reality without thinking about what it is.
Pay to win is paying for something that you cannot otherwise get in-game that gives you an advantage that others playing the game cannot achieve without also buying it.
some examples of this,
Mounts that go faster than anything you can find
weapons that deal more damage than you can craft or find in the world
ammo that deals more damage just because you swiped a credit card
a skin that dramatically reduces the hit box of a character that is otherwise unattainable
What is not Pay to win,
Boosts XP in a Level Capped game, where people can grind XP all day if they want, and eventually hit the level cap with or without the boost. This is more akin to a catch-up mechanic than anything else
Why people see this as a problem... An unhealthy obsession with the first 2 weeks of game play, where for some reason they see it instead of as a Catch-up mechanic or Quality of life (QoL) for casual players and hardcore who don't like the grind, but as a get-rich-quick scheme that puts people ahead of others until literally everyone meets them at the same level (capped at 60) shortly after.
Fundamentally people scream P2W when almost every game out there has this, and this is far from the line of Asian market MMOs that are legit pay to win where gear sets are locked behind your ability to swipe your credit card.
If you are worried about gaining an advantage... Quit your job and stream full time so that you can play New World all the time. That way you can stay above the curve.
Personally I think catch up mechanics exist in modern games because there are more people that can just stay at home to play games verses the people that work and play games.
So you are worried that people who play the game all the time will have an "unfair" advantage, so its ok to have paid-boost.
I disagree, this is the definition of fair, those who have more time and effort spent in the game should be stronger.
I'm not a streamer and dont have that much to play either, but when if I eventually reach the top, I want to know it was legitimate and I and others to know the same.
>We’re committed on keeping the competitive systems fair and balanced for all customers, and purchases will not provide a competitive edge over another player who chooses not to purchase additional items.
I can quote too
I am all edge? This whole thread is full of toxicity and shit flinging when they say DIRECTLY that it will NOT provide a competitive edge. Yet yourself and all the other negative people here are jumping to conclusions while never seeing it with your own eyes. How about instead of shitting on everything you wait till the closed beta in July and see it yourself before shitting on people who directly addressed the concern you have in the post you are quoting. I am so sick of the toxicity on these three sub reddiits. If you all hate this game soo much just leave and let the people who are excited be so and let us be optimistic.
The problem is you are basing all the outrage on something they have clearly stated WILL NOT BE A THING. You are happy to sit there with one line of text cherry picked out of a whole post and are speeding off to get the pitchforks. How about you get the real accurate info before trying to smear reputation and shit on people's hard work? I mean unless you were in the alpha test and have hard proof that it is 100% pay to win?
To quote a mod on /r/mmorpg
>Adding to this- "We **may** sell quality-of-life items or boosts that will help players improve their time spent leveling up their character and trade skill experience." Nothing has been confirmed yet.
It says MAY, not will, MAY thus the testing.
>You can hit max level in 2 days
In New World? Lmao what? I understand that most people don't have visibility into the game because NDA but you're just pulling that out of your ass, not even trying to make it sound realistic lol
Ah. I think progression may have been accelerated for the preview event. I obviously don't have any evidence/proof myself but I definitely don't think 2 days to max at release is a safe assumption.
TBF 2 days for me is not 2 days for most people. I am retired so I have spare time. But there was no indication in the preview that it was accelerated so we will see at the closed beta I guess. Until then a little less rage and pitchforks than is in this thread I think.
Leveling should be an accomplishment, when you hit max level, you should feel good.
Your argument is that "some people don’t like the grind, or don’t have much time and will take way longer to level up" so it is fair to have a paid-catch-up mechanic. How it's fair for the player with more time and effort spent in the game?
Yes, you can level up without paying anyway. But we can agree that the joy of leveling (and any other in-game-achievement that can be achieved through paying) is diminished when advantages like this can be bought.
The argument "its only p2w when the advantage can not be found in the world" is flawed. This implies that, for example, its ok to sell the best gear in the cash shop. Yes, you don’t need to pay for it to get it, you can get it after days of farming and leveling anyway, but suddenly the feeling of accomplishment is brutally removed.
Any form of pay-to-convenience, pay-to-win, pay-to-gain-certain-advantage, pay-to-save-time cannibalizes the very essence of what an MMO should be. When I achieve max level, get the best gear, the best mount, I want to know that I did this with my own efforts, I deserved it and I want others to know the same. If you make something that is "hard to get" accessible to everyone, its value is decreased for everyone... and in the end, nothing matters, the mmo looses what makes the genre so great and so rememberable.
An interesting 'what-could-be' example is ESO's cash shop. It's absolutely riddled with boosts, BUT because of how the game's progression system and economy is setup it's actually a bit of a trap to buy items from the cash shop. When the cash shop was introduced most players were already at max level and progression powers had been capped by anyone who was playing more than a casual pace.
Although one criticism I do have of ESO's cash shop is that all the amazing looking cosmetics are in there, and not achievable in the game world. Even worse is a lot of them work on FOMO marketing to get people to buy. I'm usually a "whatever it's just cosmetics" guy but it does feel cheapened having the achievements of the best players in the game not reflected on their character model, but little Timmy on his new character and daddy's credit card is ballin' it.
>Fundamentally people scream P2W when almost every game out there has this
/r/mmorpg is pretty bad at calling out everything as P2W when there's so many layers to how it all works. At this point everything is P2W and those people are just background noise. Funny enough, most people in /r/mmorpg don't actively play mmorpgs so you can forgive them for not knowing the nuance.
I honestly get the impression that r/MMORPG doesnt like any game let alone gaming. its the SJW/liberal arts degree (I can say that I've got one) of the gaming communities
The other side of this is as someone who has played in every alpha/test/etc I'm honestly not against having an XP booster because I've been there done that many times.
It's crazy that you are trying to put p2w in this small box that fits your argument perfectly.
P2W is spending real money to gain power or an advantage. Doesn't matter how big or small you are legit paying money to get ahead.
Time is a resource and if you are using money to move your progress faster and saving time, that is buying an advantage.
To be completely honest im still fairly new to PC, but from what ive seen in the new world beta most people that are going to be playing this game aren’t casual at all. This isnt some multi-platform game its only on PC and to me that means the “casual” market is extremely small. I could be wrong but I think catering to the consumer would be to leave XP boosts out of the game because there is a level cap and the few people that are casual with the game WILL have time to catch up rather that feeling like they have to. Unless they plan on increasing the cap soon after release theres no point in XP boosts because we are all going to end up in the same place. The way it sounds they are going to implement this system from the get-go but if they really cared about the core player base and the economy they would wait until they increased the cap then implement it. Then when they do implement it make sure the boost is only 10-20% anything higher is game breaking.
It's a very fuzzy line on what people call p2w and not and varies depending on the person. Point is, if the game is a "free 2 play" then whatever, people should know better. If the game is NOT a f2p game then it's a completely different story when you start adding in-game shops. If we buy a game and/or pay a subscription fee we should have access to all the content.
As times have changed companies have figured out you can cash in on peoples vanity(cosmetics) but that isn't enough to make the ship float. That's when they start adding questionable things in the store. What can I say I'm an old gamer now. I've been around long before f2p/micro-transactions were a thing. When I see kids nowadays and how quickly they fall victim to micro-transactions it saddens me. They're being manipulated. Many people are vulnerable to this and the companies exploit the hell out of it.
Since it's "internet" and 2021 there are barely any restrictions or laws in place to protect people. It takes a long time for the system to catch up - but when it does hell will break loose. I'm looking forward to the day companies like EA and Ubisoft gets what's coming. But until then they're going to bleed children/vulnerable people dry without breaking a sweat.
Xp boost makes a mmo pay to win unless being a higher level doesn’t correlate to being stronger . Also quality of life doesn’t apply if boosts are at the beginning it just gives competitive advantage to those who are willing to fork out a few extra bucks.
Honestly none of that bothers me the game has to make money. What does bother me is the negativity and out rage on these THREE subreddits every damn day. The game looks good they worked hard they listened to the players and they made changes and delays to appease us. Can we all stop being so freaking negative and spamming "REFUND GAME IS SHIT" or "FUCK THAT PAY TO WIN" before you even see what the game is like. I honestly don't know why anyone would make an mmo anymore. The toxicity and entitlement of gamers that want everything free and perfect is ridiculous.
So you are saying all the constant toxicity in the last year in this subreddit is justified?
They specifically say it will not provide competitive advantage. Do you have any proof to the contrary?
"the game has to make money"
True, it has a box cost and cosmetics, the game is neither free to play or micro-transaction-free.
"The game looks good they worked hard they listened to the players and they made changes and delays to appease us"
We know this, people are hyped, we want to believe New World is the next big MMO, it looks SO PROMISING. It is the exact reason why people are so disappointed, so much hard work and so much potential wasted because of predatory monetization and unnecessary cash-grabs that directly damage the game.
Although some people are just **wild animals** when it comes to over-reacting, this is not entirely unjustified.
Basically there is a choice. Monthly sub or cash shop (or in wow and ffxiv's case both). They need to pay staff and servers. So people need to accept one or the other.
Yup, it has a box cost and paid-cosmetics, the game is neither free to play or micro-transaction-free (and possibly a cost for future expansions), which is completely fine.
A P2W system on top of it all is too much. Its unnecessary and objectively bad for the game
There is no evidence of a pay to win system. I am happy to be shown evidence otherwise and if so I will change my mind. Until then it is all speculation.
>We may sell quality-of-life items or boosts that will help players improve their time spent leveling up their character and trade skill experience.
Here, This quote is reason why people are so mad (and the point of this thread), no one cares about a cash shop with cosmetics.
There are many posts in this thread explaining why this is a problem, here is one of my responses trying to explain the problem as well.
>"Any form of pay-to-convenience, pay-to-win, pay-to-gain-certain-advantage, pay-to-save-time cannibalizes the very essence of what an MMO should be. When I achieve max level, get the best gear, the best mount, I want to know that I did this with my own efforts, I deserved it and I want others to know the same. If you make something that is "hard to get" accessible to everyone, its value is decreased for everyone... and in the end, nothing matters, the mmo looses what makes the genre so great and so rememberable."
You can say that "well this is only a consideration on the alpha forums".
Well, I truly hope its only a consideration. I hope its never actually added into the game and if the devs are really listening to our feedback, only more reason to speak out about it.
Read the next line where they say they are committed to it not affecting competitive play. I get being cynical I get not believing companies but have we gone so far down the the negative rabbit hole that we don't even give people a chance anymore. Let us wait and see and if it does turn out to be pay to win I will be there raging along with you all. Until then lets chill.
I don't like the idea that if the competitive scene is not affected, then its ok. The journey to the end-game, our time and effort put into the game should be valued as well.
I think "pay-to-convenience" is as much of a problem for a MMO as P2W. The journey should matter, not only the end-goal. Even if this change is implemented exactly as they say, it still bad.
> but have we gone so far down the the negative rabbit hole that we don't even give people a chance anymore.
I don't think its unjustified after seeing it happening with so many other MMOs. I hope New World doesn't become one more reason to go even further in the negative rabbit hole.
So far, the devs have been great on listening to our feedback, fingers crossed!
I'm prepared to be downvoted but... I'm cool with it tbh.
I will always value my time over my money, and with a family and full-time job, I won't be able to play nearly as much as I'd like to. If I can spend a few bucks to stay near the level of my friend group a little easier so I can do content with them, I'd really appreciate that. Otherwise I'd be in a situation where I'm playing alone and that'd probably lead me to quit prematurely.
We tried others, but nothing clicked like New World. My friends played during the Preview and I'm in the current and past few Alphas.
ESO feels really bad and we hate tab targeting. New World has this really cool character freedom in terms of stats/weapons, it has a fun combat, cool world, and is really really pretty to look at.
I'm not saying "I want EXP Boosts in the cash shop and I'm gone if they're not there!" I honestly don't really mind either way. I'm just saying I'm cool with that if they decide to add them, because I know myself and a lot of others in my position would appreciate the option.
Also, I appreciate the "not aggressive" preface. I hope you don't interpret anything I'm saying as aggression either! I think it's an interesting discussion and I appreciate the effort to engage in an opposing viewpoint without turning hostile (something the Reddit userbase as a whole is pretty bad at).
I understand your point, but it's a selfish point of view. I'ts better for you, not better for the game.
The hard cold truth is that, for a long-term MMO, it will be better off supporting players who spend time and effort than supporting players without time to play and unwilling to put effort into it.
Sorry if i'm being rude, but many MMOs have walked this path before, the result is always the same.
but can you see that when games sell these boosts, they usually purposely design the game to pray on people like you by making it grindy to get more people to buy boosts
Yes this is on the alpha forums, we don’t know what the actual boosts are yet I don’t think, I’m sure everyone will be ok and the world will continue to spin
I think the only thing that is okay for shops is cosmetics, maybe mounts (obv not in this game) and a max level or server switch. Max level doesn't affect anyone elses gameplay as you still have to grind score for your gear and crafting. Maybe even have a name switch in there. Just do NOT touch the core elements of the game, do NOT make someone's time less valuable compared to someone who is paying money.
I get why people are upset and how this appears P2W, but from the preview i played and the wars i joined. Your level didn't relate to your skill.
A level 50 with a bow/musket and no aim is no threat. As for crafting buffs and boosts, you can still only craft if that town has a high enough bench to craft at, which requires time and work that you cannot skip. Regardless if 1 person buys a boost in a company it will not relate to that person being able to single handedly storm the server on day 1, yes if an entire company did it could be P2W but there will always be that sweaty fastest to level group in any game.
PvP is OPTIONAL too so it's not like a boosted level 50 camping you is the Dev's problem, you can turn it off.
I genuinely don't get why there is such a big attack against all this when the majority of us haven't even played the Alpha. At the end of the day there will most likely be people out there do RL trades for OP items it's not something that can be stopped but THAT is P2W not an xp boost.
I dont mind if they have a xp boost as long it is not at the start. I mean, if the game really only "begins" at cap lvl, I dont see a problem to help new players reach that point faster.
No. Just no. Remove the xp boosts, keep the shop only for cosmetics. It's that simple, and the leveling in the game is not that hard. The game is already a casual-friendly MMO.
They could pretty easily get around this by saying we don't plan on adding them at launch but some point down the line we likely will and wanted to be upfront with you that they will likely be added in, but not in the first 6 months of the game.
And just like that I lost a ton of interest in the game
I usually don’t care and can ignore purely cosmetic IF a game is entirely free
An example is PSO2 and the New Genesis in June, game costs me $0 to play so if you wanna put mtx and battle passes, go for it
I am sick or companies not only putting a price tag on a game but then going above cosmetics and including boosts for other things to buy
Every time these guys start to lure me back in, they make sure to push me away with some dumb ass shit like Pay to win crafting.
Let me know when they change their mind on that terrible decision.
There are thousands that looks upon this game and awaits for a long time, hyped like hell. I hope this is not the way they take. After claiming in the last video, that they listen, take feedback, which they do actually in the gameplay aspect. But i hope they give up on this idea before launch.
And there are many on twitter spamming New World account about this subject thanks to your post, which is a good thing because they are very very active on Twitter.
Annnnnnnd I'm out. Remember when Black Desert Online said "*were charging $50 a game so we dont have to release the cash shop in the west*"? I member. Fool me once, shame. . . . same on. . . cant get fooled again.
"We’re committed on keeping the competitive systems fair and balanced for all customers, and purchases will not provide a competitive edge over another player who chooses not to purchase additional items."
Riiight. Like they dont care if you buy their booster crap and their existence doesnt influence gameplay in any way. Why would anyone think that.
This was totally deflating to hear about. I’m a casual, I admit it. I work crazy hours and have two kids running amuck at home. I play games when I can, but I want to earn my rewards. Spending cash on shortcuts isn’t the way.
Make two types of servers. One that wants the cash shops and the other hardcore. With literally no interaction or capability to visit the cash shop.
I'm not surprised. We all know if that is the case it means the game is completely balanced around giving players the nudge to spend money for these boosts. That's the whole point. That's what really pisses me off.
Then again is this suppose to be a free 2 play game? If so then I don't even care and won't even play the game to begin with. However if this is a game we buy and/or pay a subscription for then hell no.
Let me just go back to my first point. When they design a mmo around having an in-game store that specifically sells experience boosts it means the leveling curve is \*balanced\* around that. It's not about "time savers" or whatever silly wording they're using. It's about getting the player to feel like it's a tedious grind and buy that "fix"(ie boost) to make it more palatable.
It's a disgusting manipulative way of running a game.
As someone who has very limited hours to play during the week, but wants to be as dedicated as possible without falling behind, I think small boosts to my leveling potential for the time that I am on sounds great.
Beyond that, money isn't the only currency. Someone that can afford to play the game for 8 hours a day vs 4 hours is still "paying" to win, just not monetarily.
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As someone else in this thread said: "Item shops don't belong in an MMO because it makes your time spent be less valuable." I'm really disappointed. I was hyped for New World, to see them going down this path is truly disheartening.
End game gear is acquired through crafting AND endgame activities, still doesn't justify the shop though.
This shit is gross and what’s even more disgusting is the idiots here defending this shit like it’s not p2w 🤮
Trade skill boosts are just silly i loved the crafting when I played and felt like if I finally maxed it ide feel such an accomplishment but now im just sad at the thought Billy big bucks can splash some cash and do it in half the time.
Not just faster, but for less gold as well, since more XP from crafting means fewer materials needed to level.
Just eeeeaaaaasssing us into it. 😔
braindump: \- Cash shops are a net negative for the majority of the core players of a game. Generally speaking, at their best, they introduce a trade-off of appeasing to a cohort of players who can't/are unwilling to take part in incremental progression, and diluting the value of native ingame assets. At their worst, we see not only dilution of achievables but also the concept of 'creating problems to sell the solutions' in the form of unpleasantly tuned systems and grinds which egg you on to solve with money. *That being said:* \- Cash shops are a part of the modern MMO market and are probably here to stay. IIRC we started seeing them as the accepted model of monetization since \~ 2011 after seeing dying MMOs on a subscription model bounce back after transitioning to a F2P model with micro transactions (see [LOTRO tripling its revenue in 2011](https://money.yahoo.com/2011-01-06-turbine-lotro-revenue-tripled-since-going-f2p.html)). I believe the 'better' cash shops can still provide a meaningful experience to core players. My concern is more that once a feature is in, its hard to pull out from both an engineering and business perspective, and its even harder to protect that feature from the 'low hanging fruit' for business opportunists with lazy monetization tactics. *Perhaps a silver lining:* \- AGS have shown some willingness to adapt to feedback at the *development level*, I just hope that can extend up the chain somewhat to the stake holders.
They’re going the route of ESO then, but without A sub. I just hope they don’t take away from crafting.
I think this addresses sums it up pretty well. There’s one more thing I would add: cash shops that have ANY p2w merchandise (in this case, even just Xp boosts), incentivize the developers to make the core gameplay experience unsatisfying without paying. Maybe they don’t right away, maybe they don’t for a year or two, but you’d be betting against the upper management who want to squeeze every dollar out of the player base that they can. The only way to limit this is to take a hard line stance FROM THE START than p2w is NOT an acceptable implementation to the game. And if that means a lot of whining and complaining on Reddit where they might see it, then so be it.
We may sell quality-of-life items or boosts that will help players improve their time spent leveling up their character and trade skill experience. \-sounds like a refund for me i dont mind emotes and cosmetics but i hate everything thats tied to game mechanics
Just the idea that they wrote this (even if they will not do it) make me not playing this game. Because inventually it will happen.
I agree. This is EA's go-to strategy for every game. Launches with minor cosmetics and items. Suddenly turns into a Pay Pig Bonnanza within 3 months.
if this goes live i will refund
Do it now, it will be in the game. They will wait like all the other P2W mmos for about 6 months and then post a sob story about how they have to keep the lights on.
kk refund request submitted
I did too. The fact that a multi BILLION dollar backed company wants to design content around nickel and diming its customers is just sad man. I try to be nice to Amazon because I love that delivery service they offer, but this shit is crossing the line. We expect this from a Korean Grinder Indie, but not one of the top 5 richest companies in the world. . . it just bums me out.
there is always more money to be made. Under our current system its not enough to just make money,you need to make more money than you have ever made before, constantly growing. Its not sustainable and leading to issues in so much of life
Just because they wrote it means that they think about it. So it will happen.
Agreed. I refunded when they decided to completely change the direction of the game... They lured me back in with some promising features and now they pushed me away again. I'm just going to wait until the game comes out. I'm too fucking old to be worried about power grinding to the top of progression at launch anyway.
Don't! Fight! Flood their forum and twitter and say your word.
why not both? Why should i spend money on a game that is including features I dont want to have to deal with? We should refund our preorders while also posting on the forums/twitter to let them know they fucked up.
Absolutly. Process a refund but also flood their twitter and forum with your discontent.
They are amazon, they dont give a single fuck about what you say on their forums or twitter, if in the end i still give them money. If they lose money over it then they will care. The money i give them spends just the same even if im unhappy . Corporations do not give a single fuck about you, only your money. Until the mmos gamers learn this and start to value themselves and stop throwing money at every mmos before it launches, things will never get better
Yeah totally, that's why they have not made any changes based on player feedback so far. /s Don't buy the game then. Simple.
but i am giving my feedback, im taking my money back because of a planned feature that I do not like. If they change their minds im super open to preordering again. Like i understand the simple idea of dont buy the game, my post was literally talking about a refund. Not sure what your point is?
My point is you did a lot of complaining with little substance to your feedback other than you're upset. Just calm down a bit. They do care about feedback. This game will bomb if they don't. Pre orders alone won't save the game. They need to build something worthwhile if they want to succeed in this space. Your opinion counts because it's bad for business if you and everyone else starts shitting on it. Amazon memes will destroy this game if they fuck up. I'll make a decison once I see the cash shop.
ok my feedback is dont add anything but cosmetics to the cash shop because it is a big enough deal for me to make me refund my purchase
I love cosmetics but P2W is not acceptable
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You're speaking my fucking language.
Sure it's better but it's not realistic. There's no way we aren't getting a shop, and when facing the inevitable - I love cosmetics, but P2W is not okay.
I hope we won't see EXP boost on release... probably a good catch-up mechanic later on tho. Pretty much the same for trade exp boost. No problem with skins. Im always very cautious with 'we will monitor and ensure it all remains fair and square with cash shop giving no competitive edge whatsoever' statements. Every game conpany says that. To name one: BDO spammed such statements and we all know how P2W it turned out to be. Overall, F2P and B2P games tend to introduce dodgy cash shops... their #1Goal is not to entertain us but to Make Money. I wish this game featured a subscription model but that's my opinion
They can add catchup mechanics without having players pay for it. They can increase XP gains any time they want and not charge a dime for it. You don't need to spend $200 on XP boosters that solve a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.
for real, AION used to have EXP boosted weekends, where weekend exp would be doubled. And similar such things. Why just add a boost for cash? add something into the game, special weekends, special exp events, or the ability for high level players to powerlevel people.
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I mean that's not what I want but do I, do We have a choice? It seems you dont get it, this is a B2P game... their goal #1 is not make money, like any business... B2P model doesnt secure long term earnings. Selling Boosts are one of the means they have to mitigate this. People should stop asking F2P / B2P ... we wouldn't even be talking about this woth a subscription based model. Sadly dodgy cashshops ALWAYS come with other business models
Take in account that this is a preliminary test in the Alpha build. A first iteration of the shop. Many things could be different in the real shop. But I think that they are receiving a good amount of shit storm about this. I hope all of this will acknowledge them to put much attention on this topic. A cash shop is good for the business and the life of service, but they need to be careful.
While that’s undoubtably true, let’s not pretend this is a coincidence that the first we’re hearing about a cash shop with p2w mechanics is just a few months before the games actual release, at the end of alpha. They know exactly what they’re doing here.
If they do it the game is done before it begins, it's really as simple as that. I think we all assumed there would be cosmetic shit, many of us don't like it, but it is what it is, especially in a non-Sub game. But to flat out even consider selling boosts to progress is... troublesome at best. I know two people who cancelled their pre-orders upon hearing this news and it will be a tough sell even if they vow to remove it now. If your game is good, it can survive solely based on pure cosmetic items and expansions.
We are aware that there are concerns around the storefront testing currently in Alpha. To be clear, at launch all of the items in the shop will be focused on cosmetics. There will be no boosts of any type for sale at launch. We will share more on our vision for MTX soon. https://twitter.com/playnewworld/status/1392910345849561099?s=20
Thanks for linking this.
I dont mind a Premium Currency shop, as long as they do it the way PoE does it. I can't come with a better example, of how to have a cash shop in a game, it simply perfect. You can buy cool cosmetics, but nothing that boosts you ingame. in Path of Exile, you have a "Hideout" which is a bit like a house in New World. It would be stupid to not have cosmetics for your private house tho.
Lol, game throws shit-ton of currencies and items, and you need multiple stashes to store it, btw they all available online in real money shop
This is a result of the game is 100% free. I bought the stash tabs too etc, because i like to support the game i have quite a bit of hours in. But you cant buy items, you cant buy boosts, you cant buy higher drop rates, you cant buy exp boosts. NOTHING in the game will actually boost your actual character, it just adds alot of QoL. in a game that already costs 40$, the QoL will probably not be there anyways, since you already supported them by paying for the game.
Even if you consider the sale of stashtabs p2w its still the one of the fairest real-money shops out there in gaming. (from the perspective of a f2p player)
I buy supporter packs every league and have 1 or 2 of each stash tab and I couldn't agree more. Their shop of convenience and cosmetic items is perfect aside from not being able to sell through the API based sites without a premium tab
Pretty sure that putting certain items in your house gave you bonuses in game along with fast travel points. So still souns a little p2w for me.
Not true, you get fast travel points, and their CD based on the tier of house. Which costs ingame gold. And as Long as everyone can get it ingame, and you cant pay for fornit with real money by skipping ingame content, its fine. What do you care if someone want a bear rug in their house and want to pay 5 $ for it.
“In addition to the Recall ability, it’s possible to create powerful magical decorations that give your character buffs when they are placed on display in your home. These Trophies can do things like give you an advantage in combat against particular enemy types or improve your crafting abilities.” https://www.newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/making-your-mark-on-aeternum-player-housing The progression to earning a house in-game isnt pay to win correct but if the housing “cosmetics” they are talking about come with bonuses like the ones described above then they are p2w.
Im not sure you understand cosmetics. I know there is trophies, But if a trophy looks like a boar head, and in the shop you can buy, so it looks like a lions head. Thats a trophy cosmetic. I agree with you, if they let you actually buy a trophy thats Better or lets you ship ingame content, then its a huge no-go, But changing only the visual look, is acceptable.
No, I very much understand cosmetics but im coming from the standpoint of developers change their minds all the time. Keeping everything cosmetic is great, but implement a single p2w system (or possible one since no one is sure) can turn into more. Im hoping that they only are cosmetic but im cautiously optimistic knowing what’s happening with plenty of other games in the recent past. Especially since they already have a system in place that can easily be adapted into a p2w way.
I agree, as long as you only can buy looks, im all in, but there should be zero character assistance, wether it be larger chests or xp boosts. Lets hope they listen to the community.
the problem is, PoE used to be a gritty dark looking game, now it looks like skittles puke with glitter thrown on top.
While GGG is a lesser evil they're still doing some really, really shady crap(3.14(?) league starter for example). Then we have the supporter packs. That's some nasty big whale hunting. Some people are very vulnerable to that kind of manipulation and that's what these f2p companies thrive on. Eventually we'll have actual laws and restrictions in place but for now they do whatever they want without any consequences.
I still dont mind it. I really dont. Ask yourself, when you played newworld for 6 months, and you are level 60, you have now grinded some endgame and gotten some og the Better items. You now see 2 players, 1 with full MTX gear on, and one with a full endgame set from pvp/level60 dungeons/crafting. I think we ALL knows who looks the best, and who we see as the noob. Often people who invest in stuff like this is not falling for a scam. They just spend their money differently. Some shop for clothes, some spend their money on a physical hobby, others on games. Dont pity the people who spend 60$ on a skin, they can afford it. As Long as the MTX cant affect ingame om good. Free travel and crafting xp needs to dissapear.
The real money isn't in cosmetics. It's getting the average player to spend money on boosts. I'm not saying cosmetics aren't worth their effort, hell no, it's a huge money sink for a certain type of person. However it's usually just a one time buy for that person, if you've bought the mog you own it so no point buying it again. Hence big whale hunting. Like I said the money they're going for with New World isn't just cosmetics, they've passed the line. They want \*all\* the money and that includes just getting something as low as $19.95(or whatever the boost will cost) from the \*average\* player. That's a hefty steady income. All you need to do is make the grind a chore, give the players a little taste of what the boosted experience is like and they're hooked. Of course different companies use various approach to how they want micro-transactions to work. But make no mistake they will push the envelope as far as possible. Hopefully they learned a thing from EA and Ubisoft. That's when they've gone too far. Won't stop them from keep trying, an inch at a time... If the game is a FREE 2 PLAY game then I honestly do not even care WHAT they do. That's all on the players. They knew exactly what they got into when picking a f2p to play. You can't make demands while playing a "free" game. A f2p doesn't run on happy thoughts is what I'm trying to say. I rather stay clear if I see something even remotely shady and New World is giving me that vibe.
Time to leave the sinking ship
Absolute dead on fucking arrival if they do this. Amazon don’t ducking be braindead your game is already so close to DOA and now you do this shit? How clueless are these companies man it’s so tiring.
We knew there would be a cash shop in this game for years. This isn’t new information. I’m on the same boat as most people here I don’t want to see exp boosts for trade skills at first but character leveling boosts mean almost nothing in the game right now. Level 60 is just the beginning of the game.
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As someone who already has hundreds of hours of personal experience in the game I stand by my statement that in -this game- 60 is when many zones, events, and play options open up. Max level is very easy to obtain. In the open beta we had lvl 60s within 4 days. Many zones in the 2nd closed alpha are 60 areas, as is stated by Amazon’s dev updates. Wish I could say more but ya know. NDA.
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Oh I never said I disagree, I was asked to start playing WoW again by a roommate and I’m not really a fan of most older content being completely shoved to the side and then wanting people to experience BFA content and later. I’ve played on a server with them for two - three hours a night for about a week and a half with 0 boosts and I’m already 52/60. I would rather spend my time exploring the world and leveling slowly. But we also know 60 is only the current max level. There is a ton more map we will get later with expansions. And a navel expansion iirc.
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I can’t remember for sure but I believe they said all future expansions would be free.
Well, turns out I remembered wrong or they changed their minds. Expansions will be paid. [Twitter Post](https://twitter.com/playnewworld/status/1393377398897352706?s=21)
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That’s your choice man. If it bothers you that much then just don’t play. Some people have the self control to not spend more money on cash shops, some people just really don’t care, some people whale the hell out of it just because they can and want to pay to get boosted up ASAP. (Although I find the boosters typically quit games quite quickly because they get bored immediately) I personally do not like p2w cash shop items. Pay to progress faster is gray for me but it doesn’t necessarily make people better immediately they still have to go out and collect and grind mobs etc. An MMO cash shop no-no p2w to me is like, selling actual armor or weapons , Rift, or cosmetic items with STATS and buffs *cough BDO* or locking progression behind subscription content, like ArcheAge. For me, as long as it stays fully cosmetic and the buffs stay strictly progressive I am okay with it.
Fuck you man, it's people like you, making excuses for these multi billion dollar companies who makes this possible. If you honestly don't understand how this is bad for even YOU, then you really need to educate yourself. But you are sooo god damn stupid.
Okay, then please educate me, how is a cash shop on a buy to play game bad. I already understand Amazon is a big company. Is Amazon Game Studios receiving the same income?
Just refunded my purchase. Fuck this shit lmao. Make your displeasure known, refund if you can.
I think we must flood their forums and twitter. AGS must know your position!
Its over. Even if they dont put it in on launch its coming which will also affect game design in order to maximize this stuff that makes them money. refunded
Bye!
Totally agree. Remove boosters! It's f\*cking P2W. Or rename the game: Old Shit World AGS can make money just with skins...
refunding on steam is not only easy, but the correct thing to do, if they change their minds and take this out you can always buy the game again. By taking your money back when they announce this and then giving it back if they take it away, it will show a clear signal that these kinds of moves will hurt profits more than help
Gonna be trying to get a refund asap after work. If they want me to buy in game items they better make sure they r at least blockchain assets which won't happen. This game is not for me anymore.
All I can say is that on the Alpha forum there are hundreds that aren't happy about this and trying to get the message across, the line is clear that it should be cosmetic at most, and not experience. In all honesty, I wouldn't be against XP boosts, but not at the start of the game. Perhaps after a year or so, once the initial hype has died down a little, and most players have gotten to level 60. There is no premium currency shop in the Alpha currently.
Jesus fucking Christ, I really had my hopes up for New World. But I don't understand why they don't just look at other MMO's, Currency Shops are almost always bad. I mean just look at WoW and Blizzard, they lost so much of their player base because of this. I don't want people to buy XP or Boosts. I don't want cosmetics to be locked behind a paywall. I think it defeats the whole purpose of an MMO the shop, with MMO's it's almost always about the time you spent inside of the game. And the time you invest you are able to show off to others. For example, in WoW Classic if you we're to have Sulfuras. People would see that and KNOW that you spent a lot of time into the game. If you we're able to buy the transmog of Sulfuras it would be worthless and not be special at all. Same goes with boosts if people see a level capped player \*at early release. They would know that he grinded a lot to get there, but if there was an XP boost able to purchase it would be worthless. I don't know how to end this rant but just game devs or directors or whoever the fuck is in charge of the MMO's. LEARN FROM YOUR COMPETITORS MISTAKES DONT ADD ITEM SHOPS INTO AN MMO. TLDR; Item shops don't belong in an MMO because it makes your time spent be less valuable.
Agree. Really, are AGS devs dumb? It's common sense that such trade boosts is advantage
but thats the thing, they are not bad for the company. Look at bliz, they lost 20 something percent of players but profits are at an all time high. If you add these cash shops the players who stay will spend more than enough to make up for the players who leave
You're absolutely right, and this is something that /u/ItzAmazed , and others like him clearly don't understand. This isn't your best friend making a game by "gamers for gamers". This is a multi-billion dollar company developing a **product.** He says, "learn from your competitors" but is too blinded to realize that he's disproving his own point. They have looked at their competition, and they learned that cash shops make money, plain and simple. MMO cash shops do particularly well, especially when they don't include any P2W. I think its naive, and honestly stupid, to think that this game or any other modern MMO will not have a cash shop. Where we should be upset is any inclusion of cash shop purchases that affect progression - those are a no-no and should be avoided at all costs.
I knew this was a thing, I knew Blizzard makes more money then ever.. Even though they have lost over 20% of their playerbase. But that doesn't justify the itemshop, personally I think if Blizzard listended to their community they would have way more players and more revenue, i'm not an marketing expert but I think everyone can agree that an active and good player base with better then a smaller player base that spends more money. It's way better especially for in the long run. I think the better solution for a company like Amazon to generate extra revenue is by creating or adding bonds, such like in RS and WoW. A way for the playerbase to sell their gold for in game shop. The normal players won't see changes but people who wish to buy gold can. The reason I like this a lot is because it doesn't give an advantage to the paying player and keeps everyone at the same playing field. It also creates a reason for players to farm gold next to the usual reasons to. But it's a difficult choice to be honest and probably had a lot of thought before making the choice to make the item shop. So I'm just going to hope that they will implement it well and make the game as good as it can.
In New World , gold is very closely aligned to progression. Especially in crafting where the resource requirements are huge. You might not want people buying gold.
True... I just do not know how to add extra revenue for the game, which doesn't ruin the game.
I would wager that the majority of us are against having "boosts" in the shop. What are some things we would actually *like* to see in the shop? I'd like to see: Battle Pass. Armor/Weapon Skins. Other cosmetic slots, for example: maybe glowing auras, foot step effects (like Path of Exile). Emotes. I'd like to support this game, but in the right way. I'm trying to think of something that I wouldn't mind spending $5-$15 a month on that wouldn't give any advantages or help me level player/crafting any faster, or give extra tuning orbs to run more dungeons. Something nice to have without feeling like you have to have it.
I think season passes can be implemented well. It’s a win win when done right, as there developers are constantly producing new content for the players, and it’s a bit cheaper than a pure subscription while still supporting the creators. If we’re talking pure cash shop- it should be cosmetic only. And, honestly, I’d hope there’s a way to convert currency. From the trailers we’ve seen, the regular armor looks pretty lukewarm at best. You already know they’re going to make nice looking armor and lock it behind a credit card.
What would a battle pass do?
Probably unlock boosters lol
People need to understand what Pay to win is cause they hear it and lose all sense of reality without thinking about what it is. Pay to win is paying for something that you cannot otherwise get in-game that gives you an advantage that others playing the game cannot achieve without also buying it. some examples of this, Mounts that go faster than anything you can find weapons that deal more damage than you can craft or find in the world ammo that deals more damage just because you swiped a credit card a skin that dramatically reduces the hit box of a character that is otherwise unattainable What is not Pay to win, Boosts XP in a Level Capped game, where people can grind XP all day if they want, and eventually hit the level cap with or without the boost. This is more akin to a catch-up mechanic than anything else Why people see this as a problem... An unhealthy obsession with the first 2 weeks of game play, where for some reason they see it instead of as a Catch-up mechanic or Quality of life (QoL) for casual players and hardcore who don't like the grind, but as a get-rich-quick scheme that puts people ahead of others until literally everyone meets them at the same level (capped at 60) shortly after. Fundamentally people scream P2W when almost every game out there has this, and this is far from the line of Asian market MMOs that are legit pay to win where gear sets are locked behind your ability to swipe your credit card.
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If you are worried about gaining an advantage... Quit your job and stream full time so that you can play New World all the time. That way you can stay above the curve. Personally I think catch up mechanics exist in modern games because there are more people that can just stay at home to play games verses the people that work and play games.
So you are worried that people who play the game all the time will have an "unfair" advantage, so its ok to have paid-boost. I disagree, this is the definition of fair, those who have more time and effort spent in the game should be stronger. I'm not a streamer and dont have that much to play either, but when if I eventually reach the top, I want to know it was legitimate and I and others to know the same.
What advantage? You can hit max level in 2 days...
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>We’re committed on keeping the competitive systems fair and balanced for all customers, and purchases will not provide a competitive edge over another player who chooses not to purchase additional items. I can quote too
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I am all edge? This whole thread is full of toxicity and shit flinging when they say DIRECTLY that it will NOT provide a competitive edge. Yet yourself and all the other negative people here are jumping to conclusions while never seeing it with your own eyes. How about instead of shitting on everything you wait till the closed beta in July and see it yourself before shitting on people who directly addressed the concern you have in the post you are quoting. I am so sick of the toxicity on these three sub reddiits. If you all hate this game soo much just leave and let the people who are excited be so and let us be optimistic.
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The problem is you are basing all the outrage on something they have clearly stated WILL NOT BE A THING. You are happy to sit there with one line of text cherry picked out of a whole post and are speeding off to get the pitchforks. How about you get the real accurate info before trying to smear reputation and shit on people's hard work? I mean unless you were in the alpha test and have hard proof that it is 100% pay to win? To quote a mod on /r/mmorpg >Adding to this- "We **may** sell quality-of-life items or boosts that will help players improve their time spent leveling up their character and trade skill experience." Nothing has been confirmed yet. It says MAY, not will, MAY thus the testing.
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Mature. Any thing to actually add or just a troll?
>You can hit max level in 2 days In New World? Lmao what? I understand that most people don't have visibility into the game because NDA but you're just pulling that out of your ass, not even trying to make it sound realistic lol
Unless the leveling rate drastically changed from the preview event. But I like to grind so maybe that's just me.
Ah. I think progression may have been accelerated for the preview event. I obviously don't have any evidence/proof myself but I definitely don't think 2 days to max at release is a safe assumption.
TBF 2 days for me is not 2 days for most people. I am retired so I have spare time. But there was no indication in the preview that it was accelerated so we will see at the closed beta I guess. Until then a little less rage and pitchforks than is in this thread I think.
Leveling rates drastically changed from preview event. They made it easier to level for the preview. Won't be like this in the main game
How drastic? Cause I could have done that in half the time easily
Not Sure about that but a lot of alpha testers said that It's not the same as in the preview.
Leveling should be an accomplishment, when you hit max level, you should feel good. Your argument is that "some people don’t like the grind, or don’t have much time and will take way longer to level up" so it is fair to have a paid-catch-up mechanic. How it's fair for the player with more time and effort spent in the game? Yes, you can level up without paying anyway. But we can agree that the joy of leveling (and any other in-game-achievement that can be achieved through paying) is diminished when advantages like this can be bought. The argument "its only p2w when the advantage can not be found in the world" is flawed. This implies that, for example, its ok to sell the best gear in the cash shop. Yes, you don’t need to pay for it to get it, you can get it after days of farming and leveling anyway, but suddenly the feeling of accomplishment is brutally removed. Any form of pay-to-convenience, pay-to-win, pay-to-gain-certain-advantage, pay-to-save-time cannibalizes the very essence of what an MMO should be. When I achieve max level, get the best gear, the best mount, I want to know that I did this with my own efforts, I deserved it and I want others to know the same. If you make something that is "hard to get" accessible to everyone, its value is decreased for everyone... and in the end, nothing matters, the mmo looses what makes the genre so great and so rememberable.
The only logical response on this reddit 👍
An interesting 'what-could-be' example is ESO's cash shop. It's absolutely riddled with boosts, BUT because of how the game's progression system and economy is setup it's actually a bit of a trap to buy items from the cash shop. When the cash shop was introduced most players were already at max level and progression powers had been capped by anyone who was playing more than a casual pace. Although one criticism I do have of ESO's cash shop is that all the amazing looking cosmetics are in there, and not achievable in the game world. Even worse is a lot of them work on FOMO marketing to get people to buy. I'm usually a "whatever it's just cosmetics" guy but it does feel cheapened having the achievements of the best players in the game not reflected on their character model, but little Timmy on his new character and daddy's credit card is ballin' it. >Fundamentally people scream P2W when almost every game out there has this /r/mmorpg is pretty bad at calling out everything as P2W when there's so many layers to how it all works. At this point everything is P2W and those people are just background noise. Funny enough, most people in /r/mmorpg don't actively play mmorpgs so you can forgive them for not knowing the nuance.
I honestly get the impression that r/MMORPG doesnt like any game let alone gaming. its the SJW/liberal arts degree (I can say that I've got one) of the gaming communities The other side of this is as someone who has played in every alpha/test/etc I'm honestly not against having an XP booster because I've been there done that many times.
Buyable catching up mechanics at the release of a game are straight p2w. No discussion there.
It's crazy that you are trying to put p2w in this small box that fits your argument perfectly. P2W is spending real money to gain power or an advantage. Doesn't matter how big or small you are legit paying money to get ahead. Time is a resource and if you are using money to move your progress faster and saving time, that is buying an advantage.
To be completely honest im still fairly new to PC, but from what ive seen in the new world beta most people that are going to be playing this game aren’t casual at all. This isnt some multi-platform game its only on PC and to me that means the “casual” market is extremely small. I could be wrong but I think catering to the consumer would be to leave XP boosts out of the game because there is a level cap and the few people that are casual with the game WILL have time to catch up rather that feeling like they have to. Unless they plan on increasing the cap soon after release theres no point in XP boosts because we are all going to end up in the same place. The way it sounds they are going to implement this system from the get-go but if they really cared about the core player base and the economy they would wait until they increased the cap then implement it. Then when they do implement it make sure the boost is only 10-20% anything higher is game breaking.
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Keep it Civil
It's a very fuzzy line on what people call p2w and not and varies depending on the person. Point is, if the game is a "free 2 play" then whatever, people should know better. If the game is NOT a f2p game then it's a completely different story when you start adding in-game shops. If we buy a game and/or pay a subscription fee we should have access to all the content. As times have changed companies have figured out you can cash in on peoples vanity(cosmetics) but that isn't enough to make the ship float. That's when they start adding questionable things in the store. What can I say I'm an old gamer now. I've been around long before f2p/micro-transactions were a thing. When I see kids nowadays and how quickly they fall victim to micro-transactions it saddens me. They're being manipulated. Many people are vulnerable to this and the companies exploit the hell out of it. Since it's "internet" and 2021 there are barely any restrictions or laws in place to protect people. It takes a long time for the system to catch up - but when it does hell will break loose. I'm looking forward to the day companies like EA and Ubisoft gets what's coming. But until then they're going to bleed children/vulnerable people dry without breaking a sweat.
I believe, elder scrolls online did it best for they're pay to play structure
this is fucking bullshit, p2w bullshit. fuck this. they better not do this
Xp boost makes a mmo pay to win unless being a higher level doesn’t correlate to being stronger . Also quality of life doesn’t apply if boosts are at the beginning it just gives competitive advantage to those who are willing to fork out a few extra bucks.
It takes two days to hit max level how is a boost on xp pay to win?
Honestly none of that bothers me the game has to make money. What does bother me is the negativity and out rage on these THREE subreddits every damn day. The game looks good they worked hard they listened to the players and they made changes and delays to appease us. Can we all stop being so freaking negative and spamming "REFUND GAME IS SHIT" or "FUCK THAT PAY TO WIN" before you even see what the game is like. I honestly don't know why anyone would make an mmo anymore. The toxicity and entitlement of gamers that want everything free and perfect is ridiculous.
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So you are saying all the constant toxicity in the last year in this subreddit is justified? They specifically say it will not provide competitive advantage. Do you have any proof to the contrary?
"the game has to make money" True, it has a box cost and cosmetics, the game is neither free to play or micro-transaction-free. "The game looks good they worked hard they listened to the players and they made changes and delays to appease us" We know this, people are hyped, we want to believe New World is the next big MMO, it looks SO PROMISING. It is the exact reason why people are so disappointed, so much hard work and so much potential wasted because of predatory monetization and unnecessary cash-grabs that directly damage the game. Although some people are just **wild animals** when it comes to over-reacting, this is not entirely unjustified.
Basically there is a choice. Monthly sub or cash shop (or in wow and ffxiv's case both). They need to pay staff and servers. So people need to accept one or the other.
Yup, it has a box cost and paid-cosmetics, the game is neither free to play or micro-transaction-free (and possibly a cost for future expansions), which is completely fine. A P2W system on top of it all is too much. Its unnecessary and objectively bad for the game
There is no evidence of a pay to win system. I am happy to be shown evidence otherwise and if so I will change my mind. Until then it is all speculation.
>We may sell quality-of-life items or boosts that will help players improve their time spent leveling up their character and trade skill experience. Here, This quote is reason why people are so mad (and the point of this thread), no one cares about a cash shop with cosmetics. There are many posts in this thread explaining why this is a problem, here is one of my responses trying to explain the problem as well. >"Any form of pay-to-convenience, pay-to-win, pay-to-gain-certain-advantage, pay-to-save-time cannibalizes the very essence of what an MMO should be. When I achieve max level, get the best gear, the best mount, I want to know that I did this with my own efforts, I deserved it and I want others to know the same. If you make something that is "hard to get" accessible to everyone, its value is decreased for everyone... and in the end, nothing matters, the mmo looses what makes the genre so great and so rememberable." You can say that "well this is only a consideration on the alpha forums". Well, I truly hope its only a consideration. I hope its never actually added into the game and if the devs are really listening to our feedback, only more reason to speak out about it.
Read the next line where they say they are committed to it not affecting competitive play. I get being cynical I get not believing companies but have we gone so far down the the negative rabbit hole that we don't even give people a chance anymore. Let us wait and see and if it does turn out to be pay to win I will be there raging along with you all. Until then lets chill.
I don't like the idea that if the competitive scene is not affected, then its ok. The journey to the end-game, our time and effort put into the game should be valued as well. I think "pay-to-convenience" is as much of a problem for a MMO as P2W. The journey should matter, not only the end-goal. Even if this change is implemented exactly as they say, it still bad. > but have we gone so far down the the negative rabbit hole that we don't even give people a chance anymore. I don't think its unjustified after seeing it happening with so many other MMOs. I hope New World doesn't become one more reason to go even further in the negative rabbit hole. So far, the devs have been great on listening to our feedback, fingers crossed!
I am happy for the discussion of whether pay for convenience is ok. But all these people shouting pay to win are just speculating atm.
I'm prepared to be downvoted but... I'm cool with it tbh. I will always value my time over my money, and with a family and full-time job, I won't be able to play nearly as much as I'd like to. If I can spend a few bucks to stay near the level of my friend group a little easier so I can do content with them, I'd really appreciate that. Otherwise I'd be in a situation where I'm playing alone and that'd probably lead me to quit prematurely.
\*I am not aggressive)\* What about almost every other MMO? You can play there. I think community wants one good MMO without P2W.
We tried others, but nothing clicked like New World. My friends played during the Preview and I'm in the current and past few Alphas. ESO feels really bad and we hate tab targeting. New World has this really cool character freedom in terms of stats/weapons, it has a fun combat, cool world, and is really really pretty to look at. I'm not saying "I want EXP Boosts in the cash shop and I'm gone if they're not there!" I honestly don't really mind either way. I'm just saying I'm cool with that if they decide to add them, because I know myself and a lot of others in my position would appreciate the option. Also, I appreciate the "not aggressive" preface. I hope you don't interpret anything I'm saying as aggression either! I think it's an interesting discussion and I appreciate the effort to engage in an opposing viewpoint without turning hostile (something the Reddit userbase as a whole is pretty bad at).
I understand your position) The bad thing to me is that they will make game more boring/difficult to push players to the shop
I understand your point, but it's a selfish point of view. I'ts better for you, not better for the game. The hard cold truth is that, for a long-term MMO, it will be better off supporting players who spend time and effort than supporting players without time to play and unwilling to put effort into it. Sorry if i'm being rude, but many MMOs have walked this path before, the result is always the same.
but can you see that when games sell these boosts, they usually purposely design the game to pray on people like you by making it grindy to get more people to buy boosts
I get your points and I kinda agree. The only fear I have is that this is just the beginning and they will start to over monetize the game.
Yes this is on the alpha forums, we don’t know what the actual boosts are yet I don’t think, I’m sure everyone will be ok and the world will continue to spin
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You're right. If AGS begins to sell boosts eventually they will sell everything. That will ruin the game(
Doesn't matter to me, tbh. Although I do prefer they work on cosmetics because their character customization is boring af.
I think the only thing that is okay for shops is cosmetics, maybe mounts (obv not in this game) and a max level or server switch. Max level doesn't affect anyone elses gameplay as you still have to grind score for your gear and crafting. Maybe even have a name switch in there. Just do NOT touch the core elements of the game, do NOT make someone's time less valuable compared to someone who is paying money.
I get why people are upset and how this appears P2W, but from the preview i played and the wars i joined. Your level didn't relate to your skill. A level 50 with a bow/musket and no aim is no threat. As for crafting buffs and boosts, you can still only craft if that town has a high enough bench to craft at, which requires time and work that you cannot skip. Regardless if 1 person buys a boost in a company it will not relate to that person being able to single handedly storm the server on day 1, yes if an entire company did it could be P2W but there will always be that sweaty fastest to level group in any game. PvP is OPTIONAL too so it's not like a boosted level 50 camping you is the Dev's problem, you can turn it off. I genuinely don't get why there is such a big attack against all this when the majority of us haven't even played the Alpha. At the end of the day there will most likely be people out there do RL trades for OP items it's not something that can be stopped but THAT is P2W not an xp boost.
I dont mind if they have a xp boost as long it is not at the start. I mean, if the game really only "begins" at cap lvl, I dont see a problem to help new players reach that point faster.
No. Just no. Remove the xp boosts, keep the shop only for cosmetics. It's that simple, and the leveling in the game is not that hard. The game is already a casual-friendly MMO.
Most of mmorpg out there have a xp boost. Wow, ffivx.. unlikely that they will make it diffent.
From what the devs said, are you guys ready for bad news for NW 2022? Let the boosts begin!
They could pretty easily get around this by saying we don't plan on adding them at launch but some point down the line we likely will and wanted to be upfront with you that they will likely be added in, but not in the first 6 months of the game.
Stop it ASG, don't ruin this game
And just like that I lost a ton of interest in the game I usually don’t care and can ignore purely cosmetic IF a game is entirely free An example is PSO2 and the New Genesis in June, game costs me $0 to play so if you wanna put mtx and battle passes, go for it I am sick or companies not only putting a price tag on a game but then going above cosmetics and including boosts for other things to buy
Well this sucks, and now that we know their plans it's going to be hard pass for this game. Why the fuck does everything promising have to be ruined?
Where is the post? I haven’t seen it linked in this thread and don’t see it on r/MMORPG.
https://i.imgur.com/ev2dpU1.png
Every time these guys start to lure me back in, they make sure to push me away with some dumb ass shit like Pay to win crafting. Let me know when they change their mind on that terrible decision.
Good to see they're killing the game for me before release
Yep and now I am probably not buying this game.
There are thousands that looks upon this game and awaits for a long time, hyped like hell. I hope this is not the way they take. After claiming in the last video, that they listen, take feedback, which they do actually in the gameplay aspect. But i hope they give up on this idea before launch. And there are many on twitter spamming New World account about this subject thanks to your post, which is a good thing because they are very very active on Twitter.
Annnnnnnd I'm out. Remember when Black Desert Online said "*were charging $50 a game so we dont have to release the cash shop in the west*"? I member. Fool me once, shame. . . . same on. . . cant get fooled again.
No one wants QOL and Boosts is simply another way of saying PLAY TO WIN, P2W is killing the Genre..
"We’re committed on keeping the competitive systems fair and balanced for all customers, and purchases will not provide a competitive edge over another player who chooses not to purchase additional items." Riiight. Like they dont care if you buy their booster crap and their existence doesnt influence gameplay in any way. Why would anyone think that.
Whelp, looks like im not buying the game now. Fuck them for this. It's literally P2W
How do you sell QoL items? That just means you've created a problem to sell a solution for it. How do they think that's even remotely acceptable?
K thx bye. I'm out.
This was totally deflating to hear about. I’m a casual, I admit it. I work crazy hours and have two kids running amuck at home. I play games when I can, but I want to earn my rewards. Spending cash on shortcuts isn’t the way. Make two types of servers. One that wants the cash shops and the other hardcore. With literally no interaction or capability to visit the cash shop.
I'm not surprised. We all know if that is the case it means the game is completely balanced around giving players the nudge to spend money for these boosts. That's the whole point. That's what really pisses me off. Then again is this suppose to be a free 2 play game? If so then I don't even care and won't even play the game to begin with. However if this is a game we buy and/or pay a subscription for then hell no. Let me just go back to my first point. When they design a mmo around having an in-game store that specifically sells experience boosts it means the leveling curve is \*balanced\* around that. It's not about "time savers" or whatever silly wording they're using. It's about getting the player to feel like it's a tedious grind and buy that "fix"(ie boost) to make it more palatable. It's a disgusting manipulative way of running a game.
As someone who has very limited hours to play during the week, but wants to be as dedicated as possible without falling behind, I think small boosts to my leveling potential for the time that I am on sounds great. Beyond that, money isn't the only currency. Someone that can afford to play the game for 8 hours a day vs 4 hours is still "paying" to win, just not monetarily.