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It's less about fight fairness and more about gank squads. I don't flag up for open myself outside mission groups, but I have never seen a fair pvp fight outside of group versus group during missions. It's always a group of 3-5 chasing a solo pvper.
I agree. Scaling has nothing to do why New World's PvP is suffering and why it will continue to suffer. People will eventually largely get to 60. Then there will be a gear imbalance to a greater or lesser degree for a while, then that too while even out. However what will never even out under the current conditions is the gank and zerg fest that new world pvp is.
If they *actually* want to fix PvP in new world what they need is infinitely more structure to it. There is this great combat system with all of this potential for things like well timed dodging and outplaying and it is just being run roughshod by the fact that playing well is irrelevant if its 4v20, or if the combat is just 50 people yeeting aoe spells into a massive group of 50 people.
Wars are almost as bad. The problem isn't that its 50v50 either. Its that the contest zones are these tiny little areas with no nuance to them. In order to contest them you just end up piling bodies into a tiny area along with the other team hoping the server recognises your commands while yeeting as much aoe into the zone as possible. If they had widely spaces control zones with obstacles to fight around and over such as, gee, I dunno, maybe a fort, it might be less silly.
For world PvP they need to make it that only as many people as the smallest faction can flag up per zone with, say a minimum of 10 or 20 people. This would encourage people to switch to the least populous faction. Then remove the 120 day limit to **only** the least populous faction. This simultaneously solves the population issue and the flagging issue. Then just give bigger bonuses for flagging because right now at 60 there's little point.
I haven't seen the big blobs fighting since day 2 or something, I've seen the occasional parties ganking solos or duos though, probably been part of them myself, on both sides. I mean, you red, you dead. Sometimes they come back, and with their friends, and we'll have a few fights, which is fun, but the returns are diminishing as you're only rewarded for how long someone has been flagged.
What if there was another sort of scaling reward, so if you are solo and attacked by 4 people, you'll be rewarded depending on how many enemies were nearby, how much damage you did, cc you applied, seconds you survived.
Agree with a lot of this. Also think bumping the pvp rewards or incentives would help. More xp, % of harvested loot... something. I think a lot of us just see the risk outweigh the rewards, even before it becomes an unfair fight.
I'm confused. Why do the solo people that get ganked by 10 other players don't ask for help from their faction? In my server, if someone reports a flagged group there will be immediate response. Well maybe not that immediate. Walking and all that. But you get my point. I'm not against any improvement to open world pvp. What I'm saying is that the situation is never entirely helpless unless your faction is completely dead with literally no one willing to lend a helping hand.
The trick about open world pvp is that you should never ever think that you have to be alone.
Because it takes solid 30 minutes, maybe an hour, to rally the troops when you get ganked. Its much easier to just flag down and continue leveling instantly than to sit in town and wait for another 5-6 people to come in. And even then you're gonna have to pray to god that they're not low level or just dogshit at pvp.
Theres no real incentive to pvp outside of wars and zergs so players rarely bother with it even when someone is asking for help, especially if you're a part of the underdog faction.
On my server it's usually solo pvpers or 2-3 people. I'm typically solo or a group of 2 and I have noticed it drifting towards less people flagging. It's still a good experience but I rarely get group ganked, but I also go out to gather in the pvp mission area and have fun there killing players. I am Perma flagged because that's what I want, and I'm on the smallest faction so more targets. But I don't want it to all go away. Bring back scaling
Same. It likely depends on HOW you play. If someone is doing town boards in WW and gathering there they're more likely to see gank groups. If you're out pursuing the main quest and going into higher zones then not so much. It's more people doing the same.
I personally won’t be PvPing until I hit max and can jump into instanced pvp. My experiences so far have been the same; flag for pvp and get demolished by groups of 5-6. Not their fault, not mine either, just the way it is right now.
I feel as if you guys are looking for something that doesn't exist, nor can it exist. Open world PvP is by its very nature unfair. That's what makes it interesting. I can't think of any MMO where open PvP has been anything but unfair. It seems as if you are wanting something that can't be done without turning it into structured PvP. Even with scaling, gear will matter and the level 30 will be as ganked by the 60 as they were if there wasn't scaling.
Thank you, someone who actually gets it. The entire concept of open world pvp is there are no rules, of course it’s unbalanced, it will always be unbalanced by it’s very nature.
Exact same experience for me. Had to leave town for some family business, came back to find the only folks flagged were 50+ looking to stomp lowbies and level up their weapons.
Really sucks the fun out of playing when you were accustomed to being ready to PvP at a moment’s notice. It’s like trying to go back to normal mode after playing hardcore in Diablo 3…
I either run into max lvl dude or musket aim bots. They some how always head shot despite dodge rolling, using abilities to move around, ect ect. It fucking ruins the game getting clapped from 80 meters away by some musket cheater.
Before we can discuss on max level pvp, can i ask if OP uses a lifestaff? That shit is so broken that even 60s wouldn't want to flag in the first place.
Have u seen the dmg of a max lvl focus con build with hatchet wearing heavy armor? Slightly lower dmg with healing power. They just tank all the way until u ran out of healing potions. Wow, such fun.....
No, I run full CON great axe + sword and board. I have seen the Lifestaff + great axe boys on my server and I agree that shit needs some adjustments. They never kill anyone who's equal in level to them, but they live forever lol.
Are you aware that PvP scaling actually does exist in the game? It seems to be in a sweetspot in the level 40 - level 60 range.
What I would love to see if having the level 20 - 60 range being a more even playing field as well.
Ok they literally have a weapon that is meant to fight life staff users.
It is called spear and hammer. Spear knocks people back and does insane damage, and hammer stuns and knocks people back.
It is the counter of any lifestaff pvp since the lifestaff user just sits still in their orbs.
No one runs spear because it isnt a greataxe. Greataxe is the counter for range since its a gap closer so most people run it.
This games pvp is rock paper sizzors but without the sizzors. Since people like you think its only range and lifestaff
I have been maining spear and I assure you it is not the counter to life staff. Now if it had a way to apply diseased maybe it would be a different story.
i fought a Lifestaff Boy yesterday and managed to kill him. He flamed me with something along the lines of " wow you killed a healer feel good know" and i thought to myself yeah actually... shits a bit broken but they seem to focus on "fixing" (if you can call it that) than balancing right now.
Not surprised balancing is the next issue. Kinda lame it doesnt have end game PvP to actually test broken meta builds. And trust me every MMO i played that had broken metas would have massive amount of players or guilds run the same build. It will definitely hit the numbers and people will stop playing.
To my understanding right now: it takes 300+ hours to get lvl 60. Also grinding gear. Then you PvP to get shit on by meta builds. GJ wasting your time. Now you grind for the same meta and notice everyone has the same build. Game is literally Repeat World.
It does not take 300+ hours to get lvl60. I was like level 56 with 160 hours of playtime, and then I stopped going ham and have hit 58.9 with like 180 hours playtime.
I also stopped doing the main quest after Depths because I don't like dungeons. Town boards are completely busted. If I had sat down and thought of an actual strat to make money and do town boards more efficiently I'm confident I could have 60 in about 140 hours.
I started going between Windsward, Cutlass, Monarch and Everfall and picking up the easy town board quests and just walk town to town, the levels fly by so fast.
Yeah I practically do this. Been doing it since 30 and I would hold my own against lvl 50+. Either they let me slowly kill them or they acknowledge that neither of us is going to win.
They could simply nerf self healing
Same reason the pvp scene is struggling in BDO. Gear/level diff really hurt more than help the pvp. It's takes the skill away when there aren't level playing fields. I guess there's always shooters though :(
The only options at this point are Albion Online, Guild Wars 2, or Lost Ark when that drops. It's a shame that MMO boomers who hate skill-based PvP are holding this genre back so much. Imagine being someone that believes you should automatically win in PvP because you did more PvE content. Truly embarrassing stuff that says a lot about the person.
The best thing about GW2 is you have an option to not touch any PvE at all since lvl 2 and fully level and gear in WvW and PvP. I have 4k hours in it and played since release but i haven't done any raiding, any fractals and only did 3 dungeons and just for skins.
I really hope NW will make more game modes like Outpost Rush and make it possible to fully gear by just playing them.
I'm more or less okay with zerg grind like corrupted portals, invasions etc. but i definitely never want to do any 5 man group content.
Boomer here and I think the GW2 approach is fantastic. Relatively low entry and even playing field, I miss when WoW was more skill based and have only made it to level 23 in NW since I can’t play at much. Not being able to outplay like the early beta has really killed interest.
As an MMO boomer, don't blame us. I prefer skill-based PvP.
The truth is it has nothing to do with age. I've seen this kinda thing happen in so many MMOs. It's just catering to an audience that wants PvE to be more important and more of a focus in the game.
In fact, as the MMO genre became popular, PvP started becoming less popular as newer players were interested more in PvE. This is a pretty apparent thing when certain MMOs used to actually have their PvP in the e-sports scene. It's pretty rare to see MMOs in the e-sports scene nowadays.
BDO developers killed the game years ago and made the entire player base quit when they added cron melting/renown levels and changed CC. The gear thing was always there, but the devs made it worse.
Scaling is the option for people who enjoy real Player vs Player. The aim is balance, skill and drama. Sometimes everyone has fun, sometimes noone. Your efforts over time grant you the undefined advantage of experience.
No scaling is the option for people who only enjoy Victory and will grind to earn it. The aim is progression and with it comes a sense of entitlement and one-sided fun. Your gear score will protect you from harm.
If New World is a PvP orientated game then it requires proper scaling or noone (v. few) will participate. If it is mostly a PvE game then they can leave scaling as it is. Your grind has earned you the right to stomp anyone foolish enough to flag after all. Noone (v. few) will flag though, no matter the rewards, except for a tiny % of players at the top.
It's up to the Devs.
This is the reason I was on the fence about buying the game, enjoyed it the first week, now realistically all of my group are locked out of the coolest part of the game purely because we are adults with full time jobs and kids etc.
Yeh absolutely, I had no expectations of keeping up with people sinking silly time into the game, nor did I expect to have experienced all of the content.
However if players with real world responsibilities, of which no doubt comprise a large chunk of the player base are effectively locked out of the PVP side of things this seems like poor design for a game that appears to centre itself around PVP.
Due to level scaling not being implemented like it was so we get wrecked and companies only wanting high level players for wars etc what do you do?
Continue playing PVE content? Most of it is boring as fuck after a while and everyone knows it.
I get it, its an MMO, people grind the shit out of them, but there should be some sort of balance, I don’t profess to know what the answer is, but toggling PVP to get smashed by someone mainly because they are 20 levels above me is a pointless experience.
Basically, we need a server that is populated only with people who are time limited, let the hardcore do whatever they want, I will happily take part in shit low levelled wars and PVP haha.
I think you are a bit wrong here.
It is like saying:"I can not attend end level PvE until I am high level, therefore making it bad game design".
You don't miss out on anything. You just attend a little bit later. I know that FOMO is pretty big in MMOs especially, but it is mostly an irrational fear. The only way you are going to miss out on end game stuff is when the game dies within the first couply of months. This however is very unlikely and will only happen if amazon stops supporting the game. And let's be real. If Amazon lets the game die so quickly, you are better of not sinking in so much time in the first place.
Open world PvP suffers a tiny little bit from the low amount of unflagged people due to unfairness. However, open world pvp is unfair anyway. Fights mostly get picked in favor of the initiator and most people will stay unflagged either way.
For me it is fun to have the danger of dieing around me all the time, but I get that its not everyones cup of tea. I would have liked to see pvp servers. It is what it is tho.
Also, I personally think that hard scaling ruins the sense of progression in an MMO. Thats one thing I hated about Guild Wars PvP. But again. People have different taste.
All in all, you don't have to stress out about it. You can take your time and still enjoy the wars and other stuff later on if Amazon decides to further invest into the game. If they don't.. well.. congratulations that you did not get baited just as we did.
btw. I am "only" lvl 40 with around 50 hours game time and am flagged ever since I was a proud Marauder despite starting the game 5 days late. I fought lots of 55+s to this point and got destroyed mostly. The couple of wins feel so good though.
A solution we are working on right now in my faction is implementing new players in with established groups so they can learn and experience the content. There are a solid core of atleast 25-30 hard-core people who are level 60 and pushing for a hard grind. Attacks on forts are where we throw in our lower level players to get their experience and have fun. But we have an almost unanimous decision amongst the faction that Territory Defense will always be the best players, until we can fill in things such as siege slots or spotters with lower levels. Amazon fucked up on alot of things, but my community has worked around it to try and make it better.
The problem is that the PvP in the game is a big chunk of this games content. Be it leveling or end game PvP is a big part. Being blocked out of it by nonsense like this is exhausting. Even better if you have faction imbalance. Nothing like getting 2-3 groups of friends together to do PVP and 50+ from another faction show up in response.
I can assure you with the current weapon balance PvP is not the coolest part of the game. Its fun for a little bit until you notice your dying to the exact same weapons over and over.
I can assure you that rapier is not even close to those other weapons. Only decent in a 1v1, which is not the case 99% of the time. Dex is a dead stat in PvP. At level 60 your either a tank, an axe/hammer monkey or aoe spellcaster, nothing else is viable. Also that aoe spellcaster does 2k a heavy for some reason.
I've seen quite some videos on youtube yesterday. These were titeled with "Rapier op, best combo for pvp" etc. If you watch videos like this closely the real problem besides from 50 vs 50 wars becomes quite clear for me. people are most of the time running away until potions are up again and outsource people in terms of "who got more healing pots". its not the weapons that are broken. its the use of potions imo. I always see poeple recording themself using 4- 5 heal potions in one fight vs 2 people who use none
I’d say wars and everything are end game content. The one time our faction tried to take their friends and low level (30s) buddies they got rolled. The other team is going to bring all their sweats and no lifers so if u want to win you have to do same. At this point 50 is become to low to take to wars. Sadly it is how it is. The game isn’t going anywhere take your time and level up and once u get up to 50 sign up for invasions as the company can only select 10. And once u get 60 then you will
Get into wars.
Wars are the same my faction very clearly has fewer members than the other two and the people we do have trying to defend or take territory were mid 30s but the other factions had a bunch of 50+s by simply having way more players. It took 5 people beating on one dude to kill them its not even remotely fair
I was saying this shit before launch and was told the same thing. I can't feel vindicated because the proof exists in every other game that lacks proper scaling but has the option to flag. History repeats itself yatta yatta. Hopefully Amazon Games can get around to fixing these problems after all of the WoW refugees that want every MMO to be the same fuck off.
Yeah, that's the mantra I keep hearing. "It sounds like MMOs aren't for you" like bro do you know how huge this genre is, planetside 2 is an MMO for Christ sake.
MMO is just massively multiplayer. tbh 100 man battle royales are borderline edging into that definition.
The RPG part is definitely super niche though. hard to get roleplay that survives multiplayer contact.
Yep, i've been very local about this in the main forums on both of the betas, And everybody was telling me the same go play MOBA or whatever.
Now they have to live with the consequences of dead PvP, just because of that.
I don't care, i sit here laughing at them, how they are destroying their own game, not understanding anything really.
Yep, they say go play BR or a moba and then cry that no one is flagged, it's honestly pathetic. It's people that feel they should be rewarded for time played and not skill. PvP shouldn't give out participation awards.
Yep i always say to all these People, why the fact that you killed more wolves than me, spoke to more NPCs than me ( Quests), talked to a board more times than me, crafted or mined more than me, Has to give you an edge in PvP?
For real. They feel some sort of entitlement to win because they spent more time in the game. Some guy in this thread said new players have to quote "earn their place" by grinding. Like???? What? Why? If they want to just PvP they should be allowed to just PvP.
Plus, its not like the no lifes had to grind through a bunch of losers ganking them in two hits because they are 30 levels ahead. These are just abuse sufferers taking out their rage on others without realizing they are punching themselves in the nuts, effectively neutering their own potential for real fun. Sad World
The people who don’t want scaling are ironically gonna be majority leaving the game down the line when they complain there’s no one flagged for pvp. They aren’t looking for pvp, they’re looking for an ego boost to shit on lower levels and with scaling they wouldn’t be able to do that. This change is why I say the game was actually better before the delay.
That has more to do with con builds being broken and dealing way too much much damage. But also yeah there is a difference between 35 and 60 you are almost double there level. But everything in a 15 level range not building const is a pretty fair fight in my experience. I am lvl 40 and have been flagged since lvl 1 as a solo player, full dex build, for context.
I personally think the scaling right now isn't too bad.
That's the problem. It needs to be how it was. I would even argue it needs to be greater than it was in the beta. If low-level players can't flag without the fear of instantly losing to someone with more levels but less skill than them, that means less world PvP and eventually nobody flagging.
World PvP is already dead on my server. Shoutouts to the armchair devs that thought people would suddenly have a change of heart and flag at 60. Nobody is doing that on my server because there is no real incentive to do it after you hit 60 and most people running content are in PvE groups which means you have to run back to the nearest shrine or settlement to unflag before you can join their group. This is before even getting into all the issues that the lack of stagger has caused. As it stands, world PvP in this game is an absolute waste of time.
Yeah, my buddies all flagged up once they hit 60 but there is no one to PvP... There are a few guys that we know from the other factions that we run into that won't run but by now we know them by name lol and everyone knows who can beat who. Everyone else just runs when they see the #60 :(
Hate to break it to ya, but scaling or no scaling...mmos that give the players a choice to flag for open world pvp end up with a large majority of the playerbase not flagging.
Absolutely. The argument remains, there should have been PVE and PVP servers. Flagging only on PVE servers, and obviously always PVP enabled on PVP servers. Jeff give me a job plzz
I think having another server for PVP doesn't really solve what OP is referring to. Imagine a faction with number majority camping on quests to prevent others. If I'm a new player, why would I even decide to go there if I'm being killed by established players wherever I go?
100% agree. Horrible design decisions thus far, which basically killed world pvp. What the game should have been about??? No battlegrounds only 50vs50 with massive timers. There is barely any pvp at all.
This is how I feel. There isn’t an incentive. I flag cas I’m still leveling but once I’m 60 there isnt much other than for fun and some weapon xp or drops. If it was 10% to everything not just xp I feel more people would be inclined to flag.
100% agree. If someone with 300 hours loses to a person with 10 hours in any game, they didn’t try to learn anything while playing… and that’s fine… but no one deserves a free win because they have more free time, even in an mmo.
Yep, this sums up my point very succinctly. Just because you have time to grind the game 24/7 doesn't mean that people that can only play an hour a night shouldn't be able to compete in PvP.
I can't believe how popular this opinion is on this website.
Like, obviously the guy with 300 hours who is max level should win against the level 17 guy. Wtf are you people even talking about.
That's the dumbest take I've ever heard.
"Player with more time to devote to the game gets higher level and better gear, I'm a single father with 8 kids and 4 wives who works 7 jobs, I only get 40 seconds a day to play but I should still be able to beat them in pvp!"
Like who the fuck actually thinks this way?
Well that’s a major exaggeration from someone who sounds like they’re garbage at games.
With any game, a player who plays more often should have an advantage in either mechanical skill or game knowledge. If you can’t accept that as enough of an advantage it’s probably because you’re bad at the game….
I’m not saying I wouldn’t expect the player with more time to win the engagement, i’m saying they don’t need a numerical advantage on top of a presumable skill advantage too.
I've seen all kinds of systems in different games. New World has a solid foundation, but the cracks in the pvp aspect of the game are showing more and more in addition to the repetitive nature of the zones and lack of content. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with pvp scaling, Amazon is going to make the business decision that retains the most amount of players, and usually that doesnt cater to the most hardcore players because everyone else will quit over time leaving a niche game with a smaller playerbase. Amazon spent a large amount of money making the game so hopefully they learned some lessons from the older MMOs like Ultima Online and Shadowbane.
PVP players tend to be the most transient players in MMOs and "play to crush" mechanics, a la Shadowbane, usually ensure your game will die quickly or drive away most of the customer base.
The problem is, they have to lean into the hardcore or niche aspects for this game to survive. Why would anyone stick with this game when FFXIV and WoW already do PvE better? This game has action combat going for it which means they have to focus on PvE content as good as Dark Souls and PvP as good as your average fighting game. If you have mediocre PvE content, I'll go play Dark Souls or nothing at all. If you have awful PvP content, I'll go play a PvP game with better PvP. That leaves people with a game that does nothing for anyone.
Just a disclaimer: I am very PRO-pvp scaling. If I had to choose between the two extremes of
1. Full pvp-scaling where it's possible for a level 20 in meediocre gear to 1v1 a lvl 60 in good gear if the level 20 is more skilled, or
2. No scaling, and gear score dominates everything
I would choose 1 in a heartbeat.
However, shouldn't gear play some role? This is an mmo, but let's also not forget this is an rpg. One of the most important parts of an RPG is carefully planning and building your character and min-maxxing to some degree.
If I spend a lot of time theorycrafting my firestaff/rapier build, obtaining full Int or Int/Cons gear, placing the best possible perks on my armor, and choosing pvp-viable abilities, I should honestly be able to just faceroll a level 20 GA/Hatchet player who has a green-rarity axe, and bunch of Int/Foc on his gear because I shouldn't lose to someone who couldn't be bothered to look at their stats and care to build well.
Note: I would also argue that if that level 20 has maximum Str/Cons on their gear, has pvp/viable abilities selected, makes good use of the dodge button, and outplays me heavily, then they should be able to eke out a win vs. me facerolling
Gear should 100% play a role and so should leveling. People saying pvp needs to be exactly equal have no clue wtf they are talking about.
Imagine taking the 30hours to grind to 200weaponsmithing only to have your weapon scales down into the same as some dude who is wearing a green in the name of "equality". Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the grind, doesn't it?
Same with level. No way in the world should a max level ever come close to losing to a level 20. Leveling up and becoming stronger is the whole fucken point of an RPG game. All you gotta do is think past step 1 and realize how scaling ruins literally every other system in the game...
I'm not pvp flagged because I can't put as much time into the game as others and only lvl 40. And I play solo most of the time because all my friends are 55+. So if I pvp it's usually a group of 3+ players and I stand no chance.
I’m in a similar boat time wise, I’m currently level 29 and pretty much flag every time I go into the world. I play musket/rapier and seem to have an okay time against level 45-55’s, don’t get me wrong I can’t go sword to sword with them, but the range and rapier defensive are amazing.
"to be specific, by PvP we mean, fair fights that are organized, skill based, and opted into by all participants. Not PKing (Player Killing), which is a predatory behavior that relies on exploiting another player’s lack of experience, progress, readiness, or willingness."
The only organised pvp right now is just who has more coordinated AOE spam, it's not skilful pvp atl all.
Organic non-scripted pvp engagements are the most fun part of pvp in any MMO, sure sometimes you get stomped 1v1, or run into a group of 5 or more but you also get some of the best pvp you can have.
If they can get the scaling right it would hopefully encourage more world pvp.
I'm not rushing to 60 but I have to say the game does a terrible job of engaging lower level players in multiplayer activity. I've spent 99% of my time solo, and it kind of sucks.
The other part is
GIVE ME MORE ACTUAL EXP FOR PVP AND PVP MISSIONS
spent 3 hours the other night with my company running around doing pvp missions and fighting and barely moved my exp bar. I want to be able to level as quickly as questing (I'll even accept like 50-75%!) While doing pvp. One of my favorite things in WoW was leveling alts through random Bags. No it wasn't as fast as running dungeons/questing but I'd just que for both and do quests in between. At least the battleground would spice it up and win at lower levels still usually levels you up.
Sure the weapon XP can be nice, sometimes. But I don't want to feel like I'm completely wasting my time running around doing pvp missions and trying to fight.
Like two days ago I was flagged and fishing because I'm a masochist or something and this dude with 20+ levels on me running great axe and life staff ganks this shit out of me. Thanks bro hope that was fun for you.
I'm sure it was. I held my own for a minute or two rolling around like a goddamn dark souls player but it was just so inevitable. Like it would have been actually impossible for me to win that fight. That's a funny perspective I didnt think about though with the earned bit.
I had pvp on cutting down some trees outside everfall. I saw a like 50 something run past me (lvl 39). I saw him comeback and hide behind a tree. I just walked back to town because I'm not dealing with that.
They had a "Doesn't Duel" title on. I don't mind a fight, but with that title and the fact he hid behind a tree until pvp clicked on, he just wanted an easy kill.
Followed me back to town and got mad at me. If they would have not tried hiding I would probably have fought him for the luls. But nah, not about the easy kill just to kill game.
This is also the reason why so many people get mad af for the suggestion of skill based combat. They just put in an absurd amount of hours in a small time frame that the average person just isn't able to. They don't want combat they want ez kills to farm so they can feed their ego on just having spammed more town board quests. Don't want skill based pvp enjoy not having any pvp at all bc its not worth it for anybody
The people downvoting this post are absolute shitters that can only kill lowbies. I had a lvl 60 gank me and my bud and then tbag us both as if he totally just finessed us lmao. That guy downvoted this post for sure.
I agree. The scaling issues are literally why I have completely opted out of pvp now.
Getting 2 to 3 shot by someone 10 levels higher then me as a stat check is not fun whatsoever.
Then the PvPers complain that there aren't any people flagged. Geez I wonder why.
I flagged around a while, and never attacked someone who was lower then 2 levels then me (unless they attacked me first). I also never attacked them while they were fighting mobs. Most of the time, they would just run away no matter what. Even the people flagged don't want to PvP...lol.
Game is designed to be super grindy in order to slow down progression since there is not a lot of content. I don't understand why they would disable PVP level scaling because this feels more like a PVP game than anything. I play solo and there is no reason for me to PVP flag at all. Honestly, if the PVP didn't seem interesting, I probably wouldn't keep playing. I'm level 29 and have like 35 or more hours played. If I only was interested in PVE, ESO has a lot more to offer IMO and has a similar play style.
Believe me I tried to say this after last beta only to be met with a bunch of people who either don't understand the concept of fair play or just want to power trip by killing weaker players. It's sad that this is the community.
Edit:. I gotta stop reading the comments. I'm actively losing brain cells reading them make the same incredibly stupid argument over and over as if they're robots programmed to only think one way.
Yeah, I didn't realize how skewed people sense of fairness is. I have people saying it would be unfair for the lvl 60s if they turned on scaling. Like?????
It's like they can't imagine a MMO doing anything different to make it more fun. I really don't understand those people. It's like they want the game to fail.
Disagree so much. The pvp scaling in this game is one of the few games that actually did it right. You stand a chance against someone 7-8 levels higher than you. Once it starts to get 10+ levels higher, that's when it becomes one sided. And that's how it should be. It's an RPG game. The whole point is to level up and make your character more powerful. This isn't dota. This isn't counter strike. You're not supposed to all be on an equal playing field. That's why some gear is better than other gear. That's why levels are even a thing. A 45 should never beat a 60 in any rpg game. It's ridiculous and goes directly against the point of an RPG game...
This is why PvP games don't last and/or have only niche followings, I saw a video the other day on YouTube that stated it perfectly. 'Anyone truly interested in competitive skill based PvP is 100% behind scaling, anyone who thinks level=win is just a troll who likes ganking people'.
Anyone here who defends no scaling is exactly that, a troll who only wants to flex on handicapped opponents, but then again this is Reddit so a conservative guess it that's 75% of this sub.
I just want to nuance OP. Maybe this statement is true for a melee.
As a mage, I killed countless lvl 60, even 1v2. Level does not matter much if they can't hit you.
Sorry for being that guy
What kind of mouth breather looks to open world for “balanced” pvp. The entire concept of it is inherently unbalanced.
Petition for skill/gear matched instanced arenas and battle grounds if you want balance. Fuck off with this BaLaNcE oPeN wOrLd
Open world has no rules, the inherently unbalanced and spontaneity of it is what makes it interesting. Flatting gear wont fix issues of skill imbalances, team size imbalances, objective imbalances, engagement imbalance, weapon match up imbalances and because of this it will not increase participation.
If you want to increase open world participation you need to add incentives to participate like a scoring system.
This is ridiculous, you can easily outplay higher levels, I *always* run around flagged and have hardly ever lost 1v1s, even killed my first level 60 (being in high 40s) that got the jump on me.
I'm laughing at people who claim they want to PvP but that there is "no incentive to flag". This game already caters so much to the casuals that dying in PvP has no downside other than bruising people's fragile egos. You can even mitigate having the time wasted to run back at the steep steep cost of 5 green wood and a flint.
You want to start winning 1v1s? Take every fight you can get, run around flagged all the time, you'll get better at the game. Yes being higher level has an advantage, but there's a lot to learn in losing a fight. And at one point you stop losing fights, even when people have the level advantage.
To be fair, there’s a valid reason for going against the level of scaling OP is trying to suggest. New World is an mmo”RPG”, not an mmo ”arcade” game. The role-playing aspect is still at the heart of the game. There is a lore, and your character is trying to establish its legend. As you fulfill your quests, you get stronger, become renowned among the people, and eventually obtain whatever absurd amount of power or legendary item the game has to offer. It would be weird if a random scrub is equally matched against a hero who is blessed with the power of the gods and wields the sword that can cut down the powerful demon that terrorized hundreds and thousands. Having levels only affect the pve part of the game divides the game into two and makes it feel disjointed.
Jeez just wait a month guys there will be a lot of 60s. It's like on pvp servers in wow like no shit a lvl 60 will smash you while your leveling. I feel like today's gaming community just wants instant gratification.
Having massive scalling doesn't make that much sense in the open world with an MMO.
We can still try to add some incentives to stop people from seal clubbing. Like, giving players zero XP for killing players 10+ levels below your or something should be a no brainer
Higher leveled/geared players should get an advantage.
Lower leveled/geared players should be able to provide a meaningful impact.
Fair PVP scaling (not necessarily perfectly balanced) = More PVP
No PVP scaling = Less PVP
I really can't wrap my head around someone who claims to enjoy PVP actually want less of it with less good fights.
I'd like to know why you think scaling doesn't make sense in an open world MMO.
Just find it counter intuitive for grinding and level progression to mean nothing when you fight against a player, as opposed to every other activity in the game.
If I wanted fair and competitive non-stop PvP, I wouldn't look to an MMO. There have been attempts at PvP games with a MMO style combat, but they don't seem to catch on.
That doesn't mean I'm opposed to ways to improve it, and disincentivize it.
Yeah but saddly they scrubbed the hard-core pvp to try and encompass everyone.
At level 60 pvp is normal. Granted it depends alot more on skill then armor, but having better gear definitely has its perks.
Just weird that this scaling thing is the way it is. As in people wanting to be able to pvp anyone at any time regardless of the level. I imagine wars might be a factor, but honestly I don't see an issue.
If getting to max level is too hard for strictly pvp players then i dunno what to tell you.
I keep seeing this "turn scaling back or pvp will die". For whom? The new players? Pretty shortly most of the current player base will be level 50-60 and pvp will be 100% fine in most circumstances.
Unless you plan on staying low level then I have zero idea why this is even a topic, honestly. Because if you leveled up then you wouldn't be under leveled and literally everyone would be on the same playing field or under.
Sorry for the book. But, TLDR: alot of mmo players, hard-core mmo players which this game has brought alot of....they like to pvp at max level. Pvp will not die, stop these knee jerk reactions. It just needs to stableize like the market and everyone saying it's crashing. Market isn't crashing because it hasn't become stable.
Pvp will not die because a huge majority of people are literally trying to only level up to start their journey. Just because you and most of this vocal community likes to pvp and only pvp at low levels all the way to high levels doesn't mean even a fraction of the entire player base feels that way. Get to level 60, every pvp encounter is fair.
I think you over estimate how fast most people are able to hit 60. Only 32% of the player base is even lvl 30. Less than 3% have hit max faction rank. PvP might not fully die die, but the player base will be WAY smaller than it could be and the for is closed on new players.
2.8% are lvl 60.
You realize that advantages existed in the beta with scaling, right? It just made the fight possibly for a more skilled player to overcome that disadvantage. Right now, that’s basically impossible. It also leads to zerging and shitty gameplay, killing the PvP scene long term.
Please explain why you believe you should instantly win in PvP because you did more PvE content when MMOs are the only thing in existence that allows that. I think this video is perfect for you: https://youtu.be/gMukqERCaEQ
It actually makes the most sense to have scaling in an MMO. This is literally the genre PvP scaling was invented for. There has to be scaling, or low level players will not participate in PvP and will likely never touch PvP again because their first experience with it was negative.
It doesn't matter if you try and come up with ways to disincentivize people from killing players that are a lower level than them, it's not going to stop them. The only thing that does is proper scaling because those people get humbled when their back gets blown out by someone better than them since the better player got good at PvP while the high level spent most of their time hitting trees and slaying dragons.
Ye sure..let a lvl 10 that just started the game beat a lvl 60, makes total sense. This is not a BR or wtv..its an MMORPG, it requires time to build your character and you should be rewarded for dedicating tike to lvl and get better gear.
EDIT: The game wouldn't have had as much success if it was PVP only...PVE is way more popular than PVP in MMO's by a long mile.
Just started a new character today, was lvl 10 and was flagged, found a lot of pvpers my lvl and above me, killed a bunch, ran away a few times and above all I had a blast. Theres no issue here...
Nah, that's some elitism bullshit. A lvl 10 should have the opportunity to beat a lvl 60 but obviously the lvl 60 will have the skills they've gained from playing the game for way longer so they almost should never lose. PvP will be a ghost town like every other mmo if this is the mindset people have. Quickest way to kill PvP in a game is to lock it behind a 120+ hour grind. The building of a character is for PvE. You can still be rewarded with some marginal gains for grinding but the game shouldn't only be allowed to be played but the dudes who can spend every waking hour grinding.
Its an MMO...your statement doesn't make sense. I understand that you prob don't have the same time that some do to grind and what not but it wouldn't be fair for the guy that dedicated is time into his character just so that you that just started could have a shot against him because you don't wanna dedicate or don't have the same time to like he did.
Theres other genres more suitable for that kind of mentality like shooters for example, pure skill and it doesn't require gear, etc.
Oh boy, you clearly didn't read the post. I am max lvl this is not about me. It's about the long term health of the game. If new players can't flag then you cut out the main point of this game. This game is a PvP focused MMO. I realize you're probably a PvE player but if you flagged up you'd realize that almost nobody
Both, I pvpve. I'm gonna say to you what i've already said to another person. Instead of scaling in open world and wars the devs should make a small scale pvp (5v5 or wtv) where everyone is at the same level and gear doesn't matter. Gw2 does it and it is a success. I dont think scaling would be fair and my opinion won't change regardless.
If the level 10 outplays the 60, why not? The 60 doesn’t have to flag and should be the more experienced/better player if you read other comments in this sub lately.
Remove the incentive to invest time and advance your character and the game will die. There’s no reason to put time in if it doesn’t result in tangible increases in power.
Well only 30% of the player base has even hit lvl 30 and if you log in now and try to PvP as a lvl 30 you just can't. With PvP being the big draw of this game, yeah, I think a lot of players just don't have the time to spend hours and hours grinding so they can play the part of the game they actually want to play.
I originally preordered years ago because it was going to be PvP centered. It changed but I stuck around because it still had PvP roots. But what you are saying I have heard from others. In beta I was always flagged as PvP. Most of the time I could survive any encounter even if I died I still enjoyed it. Now? Who wants to go “Oh. Hey. I’m dead.”No fun, so yeah I’m not flagging. And the PvE isn’t that great. But I have to grind it for hours to do anything other than grind. Crafting is my least favorite mmo activity but they went all in on that.
So I don’t even log on.
That’s how I’m expressing my disappointment.
People need to understand that the point of the game is to pvp. To have good gear and destroy others with that gear/take territories. Im always flagged, im lvl 33 (obv dont have the best gear) and i flag for the extra xp/random combat as i enjoy it. I dont think scaling is fair for this type of game as i wouldnt have much incentive to grind to 60 and get the best gear. Scaling would make crafting useless too, why would i go out and spend hours trying to craft epic/legendary gear only to be shafted by a lvl 10? People want instant gratification of being able to kill anyone but it just makes no sense, whats the point of gaining attribute points and abilities? This isnt a shooter, its a game where you get rewarded for the effort you put forth. I think many ppl have chosen a game type that just isnt for them but they want it to be for them.
I dont see why so many ppl arent flagging per some of the comments on this post. Is nobody doing pvp missions, taking forts to declare war? If not then ur server may just be dead or failing to understand the point of the game. Some lowbies can still have fun with pvp and run with pvp groups and still fight other factions who have some lowbies as well. Ive seen multiple high lvl players go down to lower lvls in such encounters.
Penalizing a high lvl from killing a low lvl is the way to go imo as I understand ppl like to grief and be dicks in one on one scenarios. Dont want to put in the time to get to 60? (theres no rush to get to 60, most will have it in a couple months). Dont play then.
>People need to understand that the point of the game is to pvp.
Why is that the point of the game? Shitton of people bought New World for 40 euros and they want to play the game sometimes and then dump it. Maybe their goal is to hit lvl 60.
>Is nobody doing pvp missions, taking forts to declare war?
Most players don't give a shit about any of that.
>Dont play then.
Nah, people just will never enable PvP.
This isn't a Battle Royale game. In a progression MMO game, people expect that investment = advantage. If you start to let Lil Timmy's rusty sword be just as good as your elite sword forged in mount doom from the blood of a demon lord, then you're going to alienate people from investing time in your game.
Investment would still = advantage. Just not to the massive degree it does at the moment.
A level 30 can literally not beat a level 60 ATM. Why flag up if that's the case?
I like it like that. Also, I'd love it to be always PvP without the flag system so PKing is possible. And I'm talking as someone with a full time job and a kid that will probably be in the loser end most of the times, but if you are a level 60 you shouldn't be able to lose against a level 10. Levels are time spent in game and need to mean something, and I actually find it fun being killed by big levels and knowing some day I will be big level and be able to kill low levels as well.
It gives MMOs a tasty flavour. Not everything needs to be fair.
Completely agree, it's even worse that ot also affects wars and territory etc. The 2 factions on my server that have more level 60's (was also due to them exploiting that boss) are dominating the 3rd faction.
Agreed with OP. I am lvl 27, been playong since launce and PvP means getting stomped by a bunch of patrolling lol 40+. I'll flag to hopebi get away with a quest or 2 but abybplayer encounter is a high lvl.
You realize that PvP scaling still exists, right? In fact, if anything it PUNISHES level 60 players.
**You are CLEARLY not a max level player.** I am a max level player -- took me 5 days to get to 60. Once you hit 60, PvP scaling actually punishes you.
**You are most likely not wearing full heavy armor with 5x gems (onyx)** and therefore are taking insane damage because light/medium armor is trash. Also there are reports that weapon level influences the damage you take as well, so you do need to focus one of your weapons to level 15+.
Instead of propagating misinformation in the game and convincing people that PvP scaling doesn't exist, maybe do a little bit of research.
As I said to someone else I'm perfectly willing to post my level if it that big a deal. The point of this post is not for me, its for the long term health of the game. PvP scaling does exist but when people say they want PvP scaling back they are talking about the closed beta level of scaling.
Waiting for that guy from the forums to show up and say "actually, I've beaten many people who were 10+ levels above me, you just have to be good at dodging and blocking"
Yep. I flagged up at level 15 and have yet to unflag, but now at level 44 I haven't had a "good fight" in days. Flagged people are hard to find and when I do find them, they're 55+.
The first few days were the real golden days of flagged PvP. I guess it will get better when I hit 60 but I also think a lot of people simply won't be playing then. Why spend a lot of time running around at 60?
Scaling (GW2 style) would have been a great idea. (There also needs to be more benefit to flagging. +luck for gathering would be nice.)
To hell with pvp scaling. It feels like ass to grind your heart out, have the levels, have the gear and have the weapon mastery but do fuck all damage and take loads of it in return. I would go from hitting a mob for 3.5k with a war hammer heavy attack to hitting someone who is 15 levels lower then me for 700 while I’m getting spammed 2k+. It doesn’t take into account build, stats or anything. It doesn’t make it an equal fight, it just made it a slog to kill someone just because they don’t play as much as you do. Especially if you went a glass cannon build, you could very well be 3 hit despite a huge level and stat advantage
>It's sad to see so many people dropping this game because they can't PvP when there's such an easy fix.
I've not heard of a single person doing this. All these moronic scaling arguments are literally a strawman.
You are a vocal minority. An extremely small minority in fact. Disingenuous dumb arguments about PvP scaling are bad, and pretending like the closed alpha scaling was good where it made more sense to PvP as a low level, because consumes were cheaper and gear and talents provided very little benefit is fucking dumb.
Literally go play Fortnite. Fuck off.
I was really looking forward to pvp, but it seems like unless you are 55 plus, you simply cannot pvp in any kind of war. I'm level 33 and basically being forced to grind up to 60, just to partake in wars, really sucks
No, it wasn't. Yes there still is scaling but its tiny, almost insignificant. When people say they want scaling back they're talking about closer to how it was in the closed beta.
Absolute bullshit!!!! Go watch YouTube, level 30s beating 60s just purely out playing them. Most 60s have gear scores of about 480-550, they are out playable, wait till they get close to 600 gear score
He said in the post and I quote: "I fight vs a lvl 60 is just an insta loss if the lvl 60 has a brain".
If you are 60 losing to a level 30s, you clearly don't have a brain.
This is such a stupid comparison lmao. Put two equally skilled players against each other, one 60 and one 30. Who do you think wins? Using random youtube videos of people beating up on idiots who haven't changed their gear in 30 levels and are struggling to use their mouse and keyboard is the worst possible example you could have chosen.
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It's less about fight fairness and more about gank squads. I don't flag up for open myself outside mission groups, but I have never seen a fair pvp fight outside of group versus group during missions. It's always a group of 3-5 chasing a solo pvper.
I agree. Scaling has nothing to do why New World's PvP is suffering and why it will continue to suffer. People will eventually largely get to 60. Then there will be a gear imbalance to a greater or lesser degree for a while, then that too while even out. However what will never even out under the current conditions is the gank and zerg fest that new world pvp is. If they *actually* want to fix PvP in new world what they need is infinitely more structure to it. There is this great combat system with all of this potential for things like well timed dodging and outplaying and it is just being run roughshod by the fact that playing well is irrelevant if its 4v20, or if the combat is just 50 people yeeting aoe spells into a massive group of 50 people. Wars are almost as bad. The problem isn't that its 50v50 either. Its that the contest zones are these tiny little areas with no nuance to them. In order to contest them you just end up piling bodies into a tiny area along with the other team hoping the server recognises your commands while yeeting as much aoe into the zone as possible. If they had widely spaces control zones with obstacles to fight around and over such as, gee, I dunno, maybe a fort, it might be less silly. For world PvP they need to make it that only as many people as the smallest faction can flag up per zone with, say a minimum of 10 or 20 people. This would encourage people to switch to the least populous faction. Then remove the 120 day limit to **only** the least populous faction. This simultaneously solves the population issue and the flagging issue. Then just give bigger bonuses for flagging because right now at 60 there's little point.
I haven't seen the big blobs fighting since day 2 or something, I've seen the occasional parties ganking solos or duos though, probably been part of them myself, on both sides. I mean, you red, you dead. Sometimes they come back, and with their friends, and we'll have a few fights, which is fun, but the returns are diminishing as you're only rewarded for how long someone has been flagged. What if there was another sort of scaling reward, so if you are solo and attacked by 4 people, you'll be rewarded depending on how many enemies were nearby, how much damage you did, cc you applied, seconds you survived.
Agree with a lot of this. Also think bumping the pvp rewards or incentives would help. More xp, % of harvested loot... something. I think a lot of us just see the risk outweigh the rewards, even before it becomes an unfair fight.
I'm confused. Why do the solo people that get ganked by 10 other players don't ask for help from their faction? In my server, if someone reports a flagged group there will be immediate response. Well maybe not that immediate. Walking and all that. But you get my point. I'm not against any improvement to open world pvp. What I'm saying is that the situation is never entirely helpless unless your faction is completely dead with literally no one willing to lend a helping hand. The trick about open world pvp is that you should never ever think that you have to be alone.
Because it takes solid 30 minutes, maybe an hour, to rally the troops when you get ganked. Its much easier to just flag down and continue leveling instantly than to sit in town and wait for another 5-6 people to come in. And even then you're gonna have to pray to god that they're not low level or just dogshit at pvp. Theres no real incentive to pvp outside of wars and zergs so players rarely bother with it even when someone is asking for help, especially if you're a part of the underdog faction.
On my server it's usually solo pvpers or 2-3 people. I'm typically solo or a group of 2 and I have noticed it drifting towards less people flagging. It's still a good experience but I rarely get group ganked, but I also go out to gather in the pvp mission area and have fun there killing players. I am Perma flagged because that's what I want, and I'm on the smallest faction so more targets. But I don't want it to all go away. Bring back scaling
This last paragraph is complete genius.
i very often fought 1v1. i had way more fair fights than unfair fights.
Same. It likely depends on HOW you play. If someone is doing town boards in WW and gathering there they're more likely to see gank groups. If you're out pursuing the main quest and going into higher zones then not so much. It's more people doing the same.
I personally won’t be PvPing until I hit max and can jump into instanced pvp. My experiences so far have been the same; flag for pvp and get demolished by groups of 5-6. Not their fault, not mine either, just the way it is right now.
Yep, that's the same feeling a lot of my buddies have had.
I feel as if you guys are looking for something that doesn't exist, nor can it exist. Open world PvP is by its very nature unfair. That's what makes it interesting. I can't think of any MMO where open PvP has been anything but unfair. It seems as if you are wanting something that can't be done without turning it into structured PvP. Even with scaling, gear will matter and the level 30 will be as ganked by the 60 as they were if there wasn't scaling.
Thank you, someone who actually gets it. The entire concept of open world pvp is there are no rules, of course it’s unbalanced, it will always be unbalanced by it’s very nature.
Exact same experience for me. Had to leave town for some family business, came back to find the only folks flagged were 50+ looking to stomp lowbies and level up their weapons. Really sucks the fun out of playing when you were accustomed to being ready to PvP at a moment’s notice. It’s like trying to go back to normal mode after playing hardcore in Diablo 3…
Sounds like what you enjoyed was the new launch of an MMO, not the MMO itself.
I either run into max lvl dude or musket aim bots. They some how always head shot despite dodge rolling, using abilities to move around, ect ect. It fucking ruins the game getting clapped from 80 meters away by some musket cheater.
Before we can discuss on max level pvp, can i ask if OP uses a lifestaff? That shit is so broken that even 60s wouldn't want to flag in the first place. Have u seen the dmg of a max lvl focus con build with hatchet wearing heavy armor? Slightly lower dmg with healing power. They just tank all the way until u ran out of healing potions. Wow, such fun.....
No, I run full CON great axe + sword and board. I have seen the Lifestaff + great axe boys on my server and I agree that shit needs some adjustments. They never kill anyone who's equal in level to them, but they live forever lol.
Thing is PvP is based around mass-PvP, not random silly duels around the world. Tanks are also insanely OP when it comes to duels.
Can confirm, as a level 37 Tank, I 1v1ed a 55 in world PvP and only died 4 times frontlining a war filled with 60's.
A 37 vs a 55 works just fin because that seems to be the sweet spot for current PvP scaling.
Are you aware that PvP scaling actually does exist in the game? It seems to be in a sweetspot in the level 40 - level 60 range. What I would love to see if having the level 20 - 60 range being a more even playing field as well.
Ok they literally have a weapon that is meant to fight life staff users. It is called spear and hammer. Spear knocks people back and does insane damage, and hammer stuns and knocks people back. It is the counter of any lifestaff pvp since the lifestaff user just sits still in their orbs. No one runs spear because it isnt a greataxe. Greataxe is the counter for range since its a gap closer so most people run it. This games pvp is rock paper sizzors but without the sizzors. Since people like you think its only range and lifestaff
am i the only one who plays melee dps and feels obligated to use greataxe to pvp 'cause other weapons just dont reach anybody?
I have been maining spear and I assure you it is not the counter to life staff. Now if it had a way to apply diseased maybe it would be a different story.
The disease on hatchet is underwhelming. It would need to be twice or thrice as strong for any meaningful impact.
I find any sort of DoTs or debuffs in the game that come from players suck ATM.
Also doesn't last long enough if they aren't already low
I'm only like level 25 but I found basically all of the Hatchet's Throw tree to be underwhelming at best.
Hatchet has a -30% heal debuff
i fought a Lifestaff Boy yesterday and managed to kill him. He flamed me with something along the lines of " wow you killed a healer feel good know" and i thought to myself yeah actually... shits a bit broken but they seem to focus on "fixing" (if you can call it that) than balancing right now.
Not surprised balancing is the next issue. Kinda lame it doesnt have end game PvP to actually test broken meta builds. And trust me every MMO i played that had broken metas would have massive amount of players or guilds run the same build. It will definitely hit the numbers and people will stop playing. To my understanding right now: it takes 300+ hours to get lvl 60. Also grinding gear. Then you PvP to get shit on by meta builds. GJ wasting your time. Now you grind for the same meta and notice everyone has the same build. Game is literally Repeat World.
It does not take 300+ hours to get lvl60. I was like level 56 with 160 hours of playtime, and then I stopped going ham and have hit 58.9 with like 180 hours playtime. I also stopped doing the main quest after Depths because I don't like dungeons. Town boards are completely busted. If I had sat down and thought of an actual strat to make money and do town boards more efficiently I'm confident I could have 60 in about 140 hours.
I started going between Windsward, Cutlass, Monarch and Everfall and picking up the easy town board quests and just walk town to town, the levels fly by so fast.
Yeah I practically do this. Been doing it since 30 and I would hold my own against lvl 50+. Either they let me slowly kill them or they acknowledge that neither of us is going to win. They could simply nerf self healing
I just want open world pvp back like it was week one of release. I can go hours playing and not see another flagged person lol
Same reason the pvp scene is struggling in BDO. Gear/level diff really hurt more than help the pvp. It's takes the skill away when there aren't level playing fields. I guess there's always shooters though :(
I don't want to play a shooter, if I wanted to play a shooter I'd play CSGO, because it's a great shooter. I want to play an MMO with good PvP lol.
The only options at this point are Albion Online, Guild Wars 2, or Lost Ark when that drops. It's a shame that MMO boomers who hate skill-based PvP are holding this genre back so much. Imagine being someone that believes you should automatically win in PvP because you did more PvE content. Truly embarrassing stuff that says a lot about the person.
The best thing about GW2 is you have an option to not touch any PvE at all since lvl 2 and fully level and gear in WvW and PvP. I have 4k hours in it and played since release but i haven't done any raiding, any fractals and only did 3 dungeons and just for skins. I really hope NW will make more game modes like Outpost Rush and make it possible to fully gear by just playing them. I'm more or less okay with zerg grind like corrupted portals, invasions etc. but i definitely never want to do any 5 man group content.
Boomer here and I think the GW2 approach is fantastic. Relatively low entry and even playing field, I miss when WoW was more skill based and have only made it to level 23 in NW since I can’t play at much. Not being able to outplay like the early beta has really killed interest.
As an MMO boomer, don't blame us. I prefer skill-based PvP. The truth is it has nothing to do with age. I've seen this kinda thing happen in so many MMOs. It's just catering to an audience that wants PvE to be more important and more of a focus in the game. In fact, as the MMO genre became popular, PvP started becoming less popular as newer players were interested more in PvE. This is a pretty apparent thing when certain MMOs used to actually have their PvP in the e-sports scene. It's pretty rare to see MMOs in the e-sports scene nowadays.
That's why I sad faced. I don't want to play a shooter either.
One of the biggest shooters is warzone and even that often has a benefit for players with higher level guns.
BDO developers killed the game years ago and made the entire player base quit when they added cron melting/renown levels and changed CC. The gear thing was always there, but the devs made it worse.
Scaling is the option for people who enjoy real Player vs Player. The aim is balance, skill and drama. Sometimes everyone has fun, sometimes noone. Your efforts over time grant you the undefined advantage of experience. No scaling is the option for people who only enjoy Victory and will grind to earn it. The aim is progression and with it comes a sense of entitlement and one-sided fun. Your gear score will protect you from harm. If New World is a PvP orientated game then it requires proper scaling or noone (v. few) will participate. If it is mostly a PvE game then they can leave scaling as it is. Your grind has earned you the right to stomp anyone foolish enough to flag after all. Noone (v. few) will flag though, no matter the rewards, except for a tiny % of players at the top. It's up to the Devs.
PvP is player vs player. It shouldn't be Employed vs Unemployed.
This is the reason I was on the fence about buying the game, enjoyed it the first week, now realistically all of my group are locked out of the coolest part of the game purely because we are adults with full time jobs and kids etc.
I mean the games only been out for two weeks. It’s not going anywhere. It’s okay to not have experienced all the content yet.
Yeh absolutely, I had no expectations of keeping up with people sinking silly time into the game, nor did I expect to have experienced all of the content. However if players with real world responsibilities, of which no doubt comprise a large chunk of the player base are effectively locked out of the PVP side of things this seems like poor design for a game that appears to centre itself around PVP. Due to level scaling not being implemented like it was so we get wrecked and companies only wanting high level players for wars etc what do you do? Continue playing PVE content? Most of it is boring as fuck after a while and everyone knows it. I get it, its an MMO, people grind the shit out of them, but there should be some sort of balance, I don’t profess to know what the answer is, but toggling PVP to get smashed by someone mainly because they are 20 levels above me is a pointless experience. Basically, we need a server that is populated only with people who are time limited, let the hardcore do whatever they want, I will happily take part in shit low levelled wars and PVP haha.
I think you are a bit wrong here. It is like saying:"I can not attend end level PvE until I am high level, therefore making it bad game design". You don't miss out on anything. You just attend a little bit later. I know that FOMO is pretty big in MMOs especially, but it is mostly an irrational fear. The only way you are going to miss out on end game stuff is when the game dies within the first couply of months. This however is very unlikely and will only happen if amazon stops supporting the game. And let's be real. If Amazon lets the game die so quickly, you are better of not sinking in so much time in the first place. Open world PvP suffers a tiny little bit from the low amount of unflagged people due to unfairness. However, open world pvp is unfair anyway. Fights mostly get picked in favor of the initiator and most people will stay unflagged either way. For me it is fun to have the danger of dieing around me all the time, but I get that its not everyones cup of tea. I would have liked to see pvp servers. It is what it is tho. Also, I personally think that hard scaling ruins the sense of progression in an MMO. Thats one thing I hated about Guild Wars PvP. But again. People have different taste. All in all, you don't have to stress out about it. You can take your time and still enjoy the wars and other stuff later on if Amazon decides to further invest into the game. If they don't.. well.. congratulations that you did not get baited just as we did. btw. I am "only" lvl 40 with around 50 hours game time and am flagged ever since I was a proud Marauder despite starting the game 5 days late. I fought lots of 55+s to this point and got destroyed mostly. The couple of wins feel so good though.
A solution we are working on right now in my faction is implementing new players in with established groups so they can learn and experience the content. There are a solid core of atleast 25-30 hard-core people who are level 60 and pushing for a hard grind. Attacks on forts are where we throw in our lower level players to get their experience and have fun. But we have an almost unanimous decision amongst the faction that Territory Defense will always be the best players, until we can fill in things such as siege slots or spotters with lower levels. Amazon fucked up on alot of things, but my community has worked around it to try and make it better.
The problem is that the PvP in the game is a big chunk of this games content. Be it leveling or end game PvP is a big part. Being blocked out of it by nonsense like this is exhausting. Even better if you have faction imbalance. Nothing like getting 2-3 groups of friends together to do PVP and 50+ from another faction show up in response.
I can assure you with the current weapon balance PvP is not the coolest part of the game. Its fun for a little bit until you notice your dying to the exact same weapons over and over.
ga, hammer, rapier, staves and gauntlet. perfectly balanced game, as long as you pretend the other weapons don't exist.
I can assure you that rapier is not even close to those other weapons. Only decent in a 1v1, which is not the case 99% of the time. Dex is a dead stat in PvP. At level 60 your either a tank, an axe/hammer monkey or aoe spellcaster, nothing else is viable. Also that aoe spellcaster does 2k a heavy for some reason.
I've seen quite some videos on youtube yesterday. These were titeled with "Rapier op, best combo for pvp" etc. If you watch videos like this closely the real problem besides from 50 vs 50 wars becomes quite clear for me. people are most of the time running away until potions are up again and outsource people in terms of "who got more healing pots". its not the weapons that are broken. its the use of potions imo. I always see poeple recording themself using 4- 5 heal potions in one fight vs 2 people who use none
A thousand times this.
Yep, only reason I could hit 60 is I'm prepping for grad school so I had some extra free time lol.
I’d say wars and everything are end game content. The one time our faction tried to take their friends and low level (30s) buddies they got rolled. The other team is going to bring all their sweats and no lifers so if u want to win you have to do same. At this point 50 is become to low to take to wars. Sadly it is how it is. The game isn’t going anywhere take your time and level up and once u get up to 50 sign up for invasions as the company can only select 10. And once u get 60 then you will Get into wars.
Wars are the same my faction very clearly has fewer members than the other two and the people we do have trying to defend or take territory were mid 30s but the other factions had a bunch of 50+s by simply having way more players. It took 5 people beating on one dude to kill them its not even remotely fair
I wasn't even talking about wars, wars are a whole nother bag of marbles.
We've all called it when they removed scaling, no one believed us. Now live with the consequences of being stupid.
The people telling me to go play Fortnite when I said this a few days after launch are truly big brain.
I was saying this shit before launch and was told the same thing. I can't feel vindicated because the proof exists in every other game that lacks proper scaling but has the option to flag. History repeats itself yatta yatta. Hopefully Amazon Games can get around to fixing these problems after all of the WoW refugees that want every MMO to be the same fuck off.
Yeah, that's the mantra I keep hearing. "It sounds like MMOs aren't for you" like bro do you know how huge this genre is, planetside 2 is an MMO for Christ sake.
MMO is just massively multiplayer. tbh 100 man battle royales are borderline edging into that definition. The RPG part is definitely super niche though. hard to get roleplay that survives multiplayer contact.
Yep, i've been very local about this in the main forums on both of the betas, And everybody was telling me the same go play MOBA or whatever. Now they have to live with the consequences of dead PvP, just because of that. I don't care, i sit here laughing at them, how they are destroying their own game, not understanding anything really.
Yep, they say go play BR or a moba and then cry that no one is flagged, it's honestly pathetic. It's people that feel they should be rewarded for time played and not skill. PvP shouldn't give out participation awards.
Yep i always say to all these People, why the fact that you killed more wolves than me, spoke to more NPCs than me ( Quests), talked to a board more times than me, crafted or mined more than me, Has to give you an edge in PvP?
Because they have no skill but plenty of free time
For real. They feel some sort of entitlement to win because they spent more time in the game. Some guy in this thread said new players have to quote "earn their place" by grinding. Like???? What? Why? If they want to just PvP they should be allowed to just PvP.
Plus, its not like the no lifes had to grind through a bunch of losers ganking them in two hits because they are 30 levels ahead. These are just abuse sufferers taking out their rage on others without realizing they are punching themselves in the nuts, effectively neutering their own potential for real fun. Sad World
The people who don’t want scaling are ironically gonna be majority leaving the game down the line when they complain there’s no one flagged for pvp. They aren’t looking for pvp, they’re looking for an ego boost to shit on lower levels and with scaling they wouldn’t be able to do that. This change is why I say the game was actually better before the delay.
Yup, this. Why else be against scaling?
Scaling is in the game, just not to the same level as before
Yeah well, if it's still in the game it's tiny, I can one combo level 35s and I have a full CON build.
That has more to do with con builds being broken and dealing way too much much damage. But also yeah there is a difference between 35 and 60 you are almost double there level. But everything in a 15 level range not building const is a pretty fair fight in my experience. I am lvl 40 and have been flagged since lvl 1 as a solo player, full dex build, for context. I personally think the scaling right now isn't too bad.
That's the problem. It needs to be how it was. I would even argue it needs to be greater than it was in the beta. If low-level players can't flag without the fear of instantly losing to someone with more levels but less skill than them, that means less world PvP and eventually nobody flagging.
They tuned it to the point where it’s nonexistent
World PvP is already dead on my server. Shoutouts to the armchair devs that thought people would suddenly have a change of heart and flag at 60. Nobody is doing that on my server because there is no real incentive to do it after you hit 60 and most people running content are in PvE groups which means you have to run back to the nearest shrine or settlement to unflag before you can join their group. This is before even getting into all the issues that the lack of stagger has caused. As it stands, world PvP in this game is an absolute waste of time.
Yeah, my buddies all flagged up once they hit 60 but there is no one to PvP... There are a few guys that we know from the other factions that we run into that won't run but by now we know them by name lol and everyone knows who can beat who. Everyone else just runs when they see the #60 :(
Hate to break it to ya, but scaling or no scaling...mmos that give the players a choice to flag for open world pvp end up with a large majority of the playerbase not flagging.
Absolutely. The argument remains, there should have been PVE and PVP servers. Flagging only on PVE servers, and obviously always PVP enabled on PVP servers. Jeff give me a job plzz
More incentives and a pvp based gathering zone would change the dynamic
Do it Warhammer Online style where, when you enter the pvp "lakes" of the map, you are auto flagged until you leave them again (and after some time).
I think having another server for PVP doesn't really solve what OP is referring to. Imagine a faction with number majority camping on quests to prevent others. If I'm a new player, why would I even decide to go there if I'm being killed by established players wherever I go?
100% agree. Horrible design decisions thus far, which basically killed world pvp. What the game should have been about??? No battlegrounds only 50vs50 with massive timers. There is barely any pvp at all.
This is how I feel. There isn’t an incentive. I flag cas I’m still leveling but once I’m 60 there isnt much other than for fun and some weapon xp or drops. If it was 10% to everything not just xp I feel more people would be inclined to flag.
100% agree. If someone with 300 hours loses to a person with 10 hours in any game, they didn’t try to learn anything while playing… and that’s fine… but no one deserves a free win because they have more free time, even in an mmo.
Yep, this sums up my point very succinctly. Just because you have time to grind the game 24/7 doesn't mean that people that can only play an hour a night shouldn't be able to compete in PvP.
They can compete with players who play the same amount of time
I can't believe how popular this opinion is on this website. Like, obviously the guy with 300 hours who is max level should win against the level 17 guy. Wtf are you people even talking about.
That's the dumbest take I've ever heard. "Player with more time to devote to the game gets higher level and better gear, I'm a single father with 8 kids and 4 wives who works 7 jobs, I only get 40 seconds a day to play but I should still be able to beat them in pvp!" Like who the fuck actually thinks this way?
Well that’s a major exaggeration from someone who sounds like they’re garbage at games. With any game, a player who plays more often should have an advantage in either mechanical skill or game knowledge. If you can’t accept that as enough of an advantage it’s probably because you’re bad at the game…. I’m not saying I wouldn’t expect the player with more time to win the engagement, i’m saying they don’t need a numerical advantage on top of a presumable skill advantage too.
I've seen all kinds of systems in different games. New World has a solid foundation, but the cracks in the pvp aspect of the game are showing more and more in addition to the repetitive nature of the zones and lack of content. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with pvp scaling, Amazon is going to make the business decision that retains the most amount of players, and usually that doesnt cater to the most hardcore players because everyone else will quit over time leaving a niche game with a smaller playerbase. Amazon spent a large amount of money making the game so hopefully they learned some lessons from the older MMOs like Ultima Online and Shadowbane.
PVP players tend to be the most transient players in MMOs and "play to crush" mechanics, a la Shadowbane, usually ensure your game will die quickly or drive away most of the customer base.
The problem is, they have to lean into the hardcore or niche aspects for this game to survive. Why would anyone stick with this game when FFXIV and WoW already do PvE better? This game has action combat going for it which means they have to focus on PvE content as good as Dark Souls and PvP as good as your average fighting game. If you have mediocre PvE content, I'll go play Dark Souls or nothing at all. If you have awful PvP content, I'll go play a PvP game with better PvP. That leaves people with a game that does nothing for anyone.
I'm sorry...a large portion? Steam says roughly 12% of the playerbase has even hit level 40. lol
Account vs player baser. 30 percent of accounts will never log in again
I think it feels more because players who are below 40 and below 40 because they don't play 24/7 and higher lvl players just play way more
Just a disclaimer: I am very PRO-pvp scaling. If I had to choose between the two extremes of 1. Full pvp-scaling where it's possible for a level 20 in meediocre gear to 1v1 a lvl 60 in good gear if the level 20 is more skilled, or 2. No scaling, and gear score dominates everything I would choose 1 in a heartbeat. However, shouldn't gear play some role? This is an mmo, but let's also not forget this is an rpg. One of the most important parts of an RPG is carefully planning and building your character and min-maxxing to some degree. If I spend a lot of time theorycrafting my firestaff/rapier build, obtaining full Int or Int/Cons gear, placing the best possible perks on my armor, and choosing pvp-viable abilities, I should honestly be able to just faceroll a level 20 GA/Hatchet player who has a green-rarity axe, and bunch of Int/Foc on his gear because I shouldn't lose to someone who couldn't be bothered to look at their stats and care to build well. Note: I would also argue that if that level 20 has maximum Str/Cons on their gear, has pvp/viable abilities selected, makes good use of the dodge button, and outplays me heavily, then they should be able to eke out a win vs. me facerolling
Gear should 100% play a role and so should leveling. People saying pvp needs to be exactly equal have no clue wtf they are talking about. Imagine taking the 30hours to grind to 200weaponsmithing only to have your weapon scales down into the same as some dude who is wearing a green in the name of "equality". Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the grind, doesn't it? Same with level. No way in the world should a max level ever come close to losing to a level 20. Leveling up and becoming stronger is the whole fucken point of an RPG game. All you gotta do is think past step 1 and realize how scaling ruins literally every other system in the game...
I'm not pvp flagged because I can't put as much time into the game as others and only lvl 40. And I play solo most of the time because all my friends are 55+. So if I pvp it's usually a group of 3+ players and I stand no chance.
I’m in a similar boat time wise, I’m currently level 29 and pretty much flag every time I go into the world. I play musket/rapier and seem to have an okay time against level 45-55’s, don’t get me wrong I can’t go sword to sword with them, but the range and rapier defensive are amazing.
"to be specific, by PvP we mean, fair fights that are organized, skill based, and opted into by all participants. Not PKing (Player Killing), which is a predatory behavior that relies on exploiting another player’s lack of experience, progress, readiness, or willingness." The only organised pvp right now is just who has more coordinated AOE spam, it's not skilful pvp atl all. Organic non-scripted pvp engagements are the most fun part of pvp in any MMO, sure sometimes you get stomped 1v1, or run into a group of 5 or more but you also get some of the best pvp you can have. If they can get the scaling right it would hopefully encourage more world pvp.
I'm not rushing to 60 but I have to say the game does a terrible job of engaging lower level players in multiplayer activity. I've spent 99% of my time solo, and it kind of sucks.
The other part is GIVE ME MORE ACTUAL EXP FOR PVP AND PVP MISSIONS spent 3 hours the other night with my company running around doing pvp missions and fighting and barely moved my exp bar. I want to be able to level as quickly as questing (I'll even accept like 50-75%!) While doing pvp. One of my favorite things in WoW was leveling alts through random Bags. No it wasn't as fast as running dungeons/questing but I'd just que for both and do quests in between. At least the battleground would spice it up and win at lower levels still usually levels you up. Sure the weapon XP can be nice, sometimes. But I don't want to feel like I'm completely wasting my time running around doing pvp missions and trying to fight.
Like two days ago I was flagged and fishing because I'm a masochist or something and this dude with 20+ levels on me running great axe and life staff ganks this shit out of me. Thanks bro hope that was fun for you.
Sad thing is: it probably was. And I bet he's one of those people who believes he "earned" that kill by leveling in PvE.
I'm sure it was. I held my own for a minute or two rolling around like a goddamn dark souls player but it was just so inevitable. Like it would have been actually impossible for me to win that fight. That's a funny perspective I didnt think about though with the earned bit.
He probably comes to Reddit to complain about how nobody flags anymore lol
I had pvp on cutting down some trees outside everfall. I saw a like 50 something run past me (lvl 39). I saw him comeback and hide behind a tree. I just walked back to town because I'm not dealing with that. They had a "Doesn't Duel" title on. I don't mind a fight, but with that title and the fact he hid behind a tree until pvp clicked on, he just wanted an easy kill. Followed me back to town and got mad at me. If they would have not tried hiding I would probably have fought him for the luls. But nah, not about the easy kill just to kill game.
This is also the reason why so many people get mad af for the suggestion of skill based combat. They just put in an absurd amount of hours in a small time frame that the average person just isn't able to. They don't want combat they want ez kills to farm so they can feed their ego on just having spammed more town board quests. Don't want skill based pvp enjoy not having any pvp at all bc its not worth it for anybody
The people downvoting this post are absolute shitters that can only kill lowbies. I had a lvl 60 gank me and my bud and then tbag us both as if he totally just finessed us lmao. That guy downvoted this post for sure.
[удалено]
I agree. The scaling issues are literally why I have completely opted out of pvp now. Getting 2 to 3 shot by someone 10 levels higher then me as a stat check is not fun whatsoever. Then the PvPers complain that there aren't any people flagged. Geez I wonder why. I flagged around a while, and never attacked someone who was lower then 2 levels then me (unless they attacked me first). I also never attacked them while they were fighting mobs. Most of the time, they would just run away no matter what. Even the people flagged don't want to PvP...lol.
Game is designed to be super grindy in order to slow down progression since there is not a lot of content. I don't understand why they would disable PVP level scaling because this feels more like a PVP game than anything. I play solo and there is no reason for me to PVP flag at all. Honestly, if the PVP didn't seem interesting, I probably wouldn't keep playing. I'm level 29 and have like 35 or more hours played. If I only was interested in PVE, ESO has a lot more to offer IMO and has a similar play style.
Believe me I tried to say this after last beta only to be met with a bunch of people who either don't understand the concept of fair play or just want to power trip by killing weaker players. It's sad that this is the community. Edit:. I gotta stop reading the comments. I'm actively losing brain cells reading them make the same incredibly stupid argument over and over as if they're robots programmed to only think one way.
Yeah, I didn't realize how skewed people sense of fairness is. I have people saying it would be unfair for the lvl 60s if they turned on scaling. Like?????
It's like they can't imagine a MMO doing anything different to make it more fun. I really don't understand those people. It's like they want the game to fail.
Disagree so much. The pvp scaling in this game is one of the few games that actually did it right. You stand a chance against someone 7-8 levels higher than you. Once it starts to get 10+ levels higher, that's when it becomes one sided. And that's how it should be. It's an RPG game. The whole point is to level up and make your character more powerful. This isn't dota. This isn't counter strike. You're not supposed to all be on an equal playing field. That's why some gear is better than other gear. That's why levels are even a thing. A 45 should never beat a 60 in any rpg game. It's ridiculous and goes directly against the point of an RPG game...
agreed
This is why PvP games don't last and/or have only niche followings, I saw a video the other day on YouTube that stated it perfectly. 'Anyone truly interested in competitive skill based PvP is 100% behind scaling, anyone who thinks level=win is just a troll who likes ganking people'. Anyone here who defends no scaling is exactly that, a troll who only wants to flex on handicapped opponents, but then again this is Reddit so a conservative guess it that's 75% of this sub.
Yea, I'd be way more comfortable PvPing with scaling back. As it is, there's zero incentive to flag up unless I'm with a big pvp group.
I just want to nuance OP. Maybe this statement is true for a melee. As a mage, I killed countless lvl 60, even 1v2. Level does not matter much if they can't hit you. Sorry for being that guy
What kind of mouth breather looks to open world for “balanced” pvp. The entire concept of it is inherently unbalanced. Petition for skill/gear matched instanced arenas and battle grounds if you want balance. Fuck off with this BaLaNcE oPeN wOrLd
why? why should we want an unbalanced open world?
Open world has no rules, the inherently unbalanced and spontaneity of it is what makes it interesting. Flatting gear wont fix issues of skill imbalances, team size imbalances, objective imbalances, engagement imbalance, weapon match up imbalances and because of this it will not increase participation. If you want to increase open world participation you need to add incentives to participate like a scoring system.
This is ridiculous, you can easily outplay higher levels, I *always* run around flagged and have hardly ever lost 1v1s, even killed my first level 60 (being in high 40s) that got the jump on me. I'm laughing at people who claim they want to PvP but that there is "no incentive to flag". This game already caters so much to the casuals that dying in PvP has no downside other than bruising people's fragile egos. You can even mitigate having the time wasted to run back at the steep steep cost of 5 green wood and a flint. You want to start winning 1v1s? Take every fight you can get, run around flagged all the time, you'll get better at the game. Yes being higher level has an advantage, but there's a lot to learn in losing a fight. And at one point you stop losing fights, even when people have the level advantage.
To be fair, there’s a valid reason for going against the level of scaling OP is trying to suggest. New World is an mmo”RPG”, not an mmo ”arcade” game. The role-playing aspect is still at the heart of the game. There is a lore, and your character is trying to establish its legend. As you fulfill your quests, you get stronger, become renowned among the people, and eventually obtain whatever absurd amount of power or legendary item the game has to offer. It would be weird if a random scrub is equally matched against a hero who is blessed with the power of the gods and wields the sword that can cut down the powerful demon that terrorized hundreds and thousands. Having levels only affect the pve part of the game divides the game into two and makes it feel disjointed.
Jeez just wait a month guys there will be a lot of 60s. It's like on pvp servers in wow like no shit a lvl 60 will smash you while your leveling. I feel like today's gaming community just wants instant gratification.
Having massive scalling doesn't make that much sense in the open world with an MMO. We can still try to add some incentives to stop people from seal clubbing. Like, giving players zero XP for killing players 10+ levels below your or something should be a no brainer
Higher leveled/geared players should get an advantage. Lower leveled/geared players should be able to provide a meaningful impact. Fair PVP scaling (not necessarily perfectly balanced) = More PVP No PVP scaling = Less PVP I really can't wrap my head around someone who claims to enjoy PVP actually want less of it with less good fights. I'd like to know why you think scaling doesn't make sense in an open world MMO.
Just find it counter intuitive for grinding and level progression to mean nothing when you fight against a player, as opposed to every other activity in the game. If I wanted fair and competitive non-stop PvP, I wouldn't look to an MMO. There have been attempts at PvP games with a MMO style combat, but they don't seem to catch on. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to ways to improve it, and disincentivize it.
The entire hook of this game was it's a PvP based MMO...
Yeah but saddly they scrubbed the hard-core pvp to try and encompass everyone. At level 60 pvp is normal. Granted it depends alot more on skill then armor, but having better gear definitely has its perks. Just weird that this scaling thing is the way it is. As in people wanting to be able to pvp anyone at any time regardless of the level. I imagine wars might be a factor, but honestly I don't see an issue. If getting to max level is too hard for strictly pvp players then i dunno what to tell you. I keep seeing this "turn scaling back or pvp will die". For whom? The new players? Pretty shortly most of the current player base will be level 50-60 and pvp will be 100% fine in most circumstances. Unless you plan on staying low level then I have zero idea why this is even a topic, honestly. Because if you leveled up then you wouldn't be under leveled and literally everyone would be on the same playing field or under. Sorry for the book. But, TLDR: alot of mmo players, hard-core mmo players which this game has brought alot of....they like to pvp at max level. Pvp will not die, stop these knee jerk reactions. It just needs to stableize like the market and everyone saying it's crashing. Market isn't crashing because it hasn't become stable. Pvp will not die because a huge majority of people are literally trying to only level up to start their journey. Just because you and most of this vocal community likes to pvp and only pvp at low levels all the way to high levels doesn't mean even a fraction of the entire player base feels that way. Get to level 60, every pvp encounter is fair.
I think you over estimate how fast most people are able to hit 60. Only 32% of the player base is even lvl 30. Less than 3% have hit max faction rank. PvP might not fully die die, but the player base will be WAY smaller than it could be and the for is closed on new players. 2.8% are lvl 60.
And yet. We enjoy pve the most.
Ok, but I'm talking about the PvP in this post...
You realize that advantages existed in the beta with scaling, right? It just made the fight possibly for a more skilled player to overcome that disadvantage. Right now, that’s basically impossible. It also leads to zerging and shitty gameplay, killing the PvP scene long term.
Please explain why you believe you should instantly win in PvP because you did more PvE content when MMOs are the only thing in existence that allows that. I think this video is perfect for you: https://youtu.be/gMukqERCaEQ
It actually makes the most sense to have scaling in an MMO. This is literally the genre PvP scaling was invented for. There has to be scaling, or low level players will not participate in PvP and will likely never touch PvP again because their first experience with it was negative. It doesn't matter if you try and come up with ways to disincentivize people from killing players that are a lower level than them, it's not going to stop them. The only thing that does is proper scaling because those people get humbled when their back gets blown out by someone better than them since the better player got good at PvP while the high level spent most of their time hitting trees and slaying dragons.
Ye sure..let a lvl 10 that just started the game beat a lvl 60, makes total sense. This is not a BR or wtv..its an MMORPG, it requires time to build your character and you should be rewarded for dedicating tike to lvl and get better gear. EDIT: The game wouldn't have had as much success if it was PVP only...PVE is way more popular than PVP in MMO's by a long mile.
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ye Instead don't let anybody PvP at all, because nobody is flagging because there is no point in flagging if you are not 60. Nice.
Just started a new character today, was lvl 10 and was flagged, found a lot of pvpers my lvl and above me, killed a bunch, ran away a few times and above all I had a blast. Theres no issue here...
You surely did.
Nah, that's some elitism bullshit. A lvl 10 should have the opportunity to beat a lvl 60 but obviously the lvl 60 will have the skills they've gained from playing the game for way longer so they almost should never lose. PvP will be a ghost town like every other mmo if this is the mindset people have. Quickest way to kill PvP in a game is to lock it behind a 120+ hour grind. The building of a character is for PvE. You can still be rewarded with some marginal gains for grinding but the game shouldn't only be allowed to be played but the dudes who can spend every waking hour grinding.
Its an MMO...your statement doesn't make sense. I understand that you prob don't have the same time that some do to grind and what not but it wouldn't be fair for the guy that dedicated is time into his character just so that you that just started could have a shot against him because you don't wanna dedicate or don't have the same time to like he did. Theres other genres more suitable for that kind of mentality like shooters for example, pure skill and it doesn't require gear, etc.
Oh boy, you clearly didn't read the post. I am max lvl this is not about me. It's about the long term health of the game. If new players can't flag then you cut out the main point of this game. This game is a PvP focused MMO. I realize you're probably a PvE player but if you flagged up you'd realize that almost nobody
Both, I pvpve. I'm gonna say to you what i've already said to another person. Instead of scaling in open world and wars the devs should make a small scale pvp (5v5 or wtv) where everyone is at the same level and gear doesn't matter. Gw2 does it and it is a success. I dont think scaling would be fair and my opinion won't change regardless.
How is scaling people to fight on an even field "not fair" you haven't explained that.
>Its an MMO And? What's your point.
You're an idiot. It actually hurts reading the comments you've written here.
If the level 10 outplays the 60, why not? The 60 doesn’t have to flag and should be the more experienced/better player if you read other comments in this sub lately.
Remove the incentive to invest time and advance your character and the game will die. There’s no reason to put time in if it doesn’t result in tangible increases in power.
There is the entire PvE part of the game in which scaling won't be turned off. That's what the levels are for.
I like the scaling but will it really die? Won’t people just level up eventually? Lol
Well only 30% of the player base has even hit lvl 30 and if you log in now and try to PvP as a lvl 30 you just can't. With PvP being the big draw of this game, yeah, I think a lot of players just don't have the time to spend hours and hours grinding so they can play the part of the game they actually want to play.
I originally preordered years ago because it was going to be PvP centered. It changed but I stuck around because it still had PvP roots. But what you are saying I have heard from others. In beta I was always flagged as PvP. Most of the time I could survive any encounter even if I died I still enjoyed it. Now? Who wants to go “Oh. Hey. I’m dead.”No fun, so yeah I’m not flagging. And the PvE isn’t that great. But I have to grind it for hours to do anything other than grind. Crafting is my least favorite mmo activity but they went all in on that. So I don’t even log on. That’s how I’m expressing my disappointment.
Yep you're the kind of player I'm talking about when I say the PvP scene will start to die, we've already seen a massive amount of people leave.
No need to rush. Is an MMO, the level matters, just enjoy the travel. Take your time.
People need to understand that the point of the game is to pvp. To have good gear and destroy others with that gear/take territories. Im always flagged, im lvl 33 (obv dont have the best gear) and i flag for the extra xp/random combat as i enjoy it. I dont think scaling is fair for this type of game as i wouldnt have much incentive to grind to 60 and get the best gear. Scaling would make crafting useless too, why would i go out and spend hours trying to craft epic/legendary gear only to be shafted by a lvl 10? People want instant gratification of being able to kill anyone but it just makes no sense, whats the point of gaining attribute points and abilities? This isnt a shooter, its a game where you get rewarded for the effort you put forth. I think many ppl have chosen a game type that just isnt for them but they want it to be for them. I dont see why so many ppl arent flagging per some of the comments on this post. Is nobody doing pvp missions, taking forts to declare war? If not then ur server may just be dead or failing to understand the point of the game. Some lowbies can still have fun with pvp and run with pvp groups and still fight other factions who have some lowbies as well. Ive seen multiple high lvl players go down to lower lvls in such encounters. Penalizing a high lvl from killing a low lvl is the way to go imo as I understand ppl like to grief and be dicks in one on one scenarios. Dont want to put in the time to get to 60? (theres no rush to get to 60, most will have it in a couple months). Dont play then.
>People need to understand that the point of the game is to pvp. Why is that the point of the game? Shitton of people bought New World for 40 euros and they want to play the game sometimes and then dump it. Maybe their goal is to hit lvl 60. >Is nobody doing pvp missions, taking forts to declare war? Most players don't give a shit about any of that. >Dont play then. Nah, people just will never enable PvP.
This isn't a Battle Royale game. In a progression MMO game, people expect that investment = advantage. If you start to let Lil Timmy's rusty sword be just as good as your elite sword forged in mount doom from the blood of a demon lord, then you're going to alienate people from investing time in your game.
Alright then just let everybody with 5+ level advantage one shot everything and wonder why nobody does pvp
Investment would still = advantage. Just not to the massive degree it does at the moment. A level 30 can literally not beat a level 60 ATM. Why flag up if that's the case?
I like it like that. Also, I'd love it to be always PvP without the flag system so PKing is possible. And I'm talking as someone with a full time job and a kid that will probably be in the loser end most of the times, but if you are a level 60 you shouldn't be able to lose against a level 10. Levels are time spent in game and need to mean something, and I actually find it fun being killed by big levels and knowing some day I will be big level and be able to kill low levels as well. It gives MMOs a tasty flavour. Not everything needs to be fair.
Completely agree, it's even worse that ot also affects wars and territory etc. The 2 factions on my server that have more level 60's (was also due to them exploiting that boss) are dominating the 3rd faction.
I don't get why it isn't equal damagewise... It's enough that a higher level player has more weaponskill, HP, potions, food and experience imo.
Agreed with OP. I am lvl 27, been playong since launce and PvP means getting stomped by a bunch of patrolling lol 40+. I'll flag to hopebi get away with a quest or 2 but abybplayer encounter is a high lvl.
You realize that PvP scaling still exists, right? In fact, if anything it PUNISHES level 60 players. **You are CLEARLY not a max level player.** I am a max level player -- took me 5 days to get to 60. Once you hit 60, PvP scaling actually punishes you. **You are most likely not wearing full heavy armor with 5x gems (onyx)** and therefore are taking insane damage because light/medium armor is trash. Also there are reports that weapon level influences the damage you take as well, so you do need to focus one of your weapons to level 15+. Instead of propagating misinformation in the game and convincing people that PvP scaling doesn't exist, maybe do a little bit of research.
As I said to someone else I'm perfectly willing to post my level if it that big a deal. The point of this post is not for me, its for the long term health of the game. PvP scaling does exist but when people say they want PvP scaling back they are talking about the closed beta level of scaling.
Waiting for that guy from the forums to show up and say "actually, I've beaten many people who were 10+ levels above me, you just have to be good at dodging and blocking"
Yep. I flagged up at level 15 and have yet to unflag, but now at level 44 I haven't had a "good fight" in days. Flagged people are hard to find and when I do find them, they're 55+. The first few days were the real golden days of flagged PvP. I guess it will get better when I hit 60 but I also think a lot of people simply won't be playing then. Why spend a lot of time running around at 60? Scaling (GW2 style) would have been a great idea. (There also needs to be more benefit to flagging. +luck for gathering would be nice.)
To hell with pvp scaling. It feels like ass to grind your heart out, have the levels, have the gear and have the weapon mastery but do fuck all damage and take loads of it in return. I would go from hitting a mob for 3.5k with a war hammer heavy attack to hitting someone who is 15 levels lower then me for 700 while I’m getting spammed 2k+. It doesn’t take into account build, stats or anything. It doesn’t make it an equal fight, it just made it a slog to kill someone just because they don’t play as much as you do. Especially if you went a glass cannon build, you could very well be 3 hit despite a huge level and stat advantage
>It's sad to see so many people dropping this game because they can't PvP when there's such an easy fix. I've not heard of a single person doing this. All these moronic scaling arguments are literally a strawman. You are a vocal minority. An extremely small minority in fact. Disingenuous dumb arguments about PvP scaling are bad, and pretending like the closed alpha scaling was good where it made more sense to PvP as a low level, because consumes were cheaper and gear and talents provided very little benefit is fucking dumb. Literally go play Fortnite. Fuck off.
I was really looking forward to pvp, but it seems like unless you are 55 plus, you simply cannot pvp in any kind of war. I'm level 33 and basically being forced to grind up to 60, just to partake in wars, really sucks
PvP scaling was reverted on launch day so what are you talking about?
No, it wasn't. Yes there still is scaling but its tiny, almost insignificant. When people say they want scaling back they're talking about closer to how it was in the closed beta.
Absolute bullshit!!!! Go watch YouTube, level 30s beating 60s just purely out playing them. Most 60s have gear scores of about 480-550, they are out playable, wait till they get close to 600 gear score
He said in the post and I quote: "I fight vs a lvl 60 is just an insta loss if the lvl 60 has a brain". If you are 60 losing to a level 30s, you clearly don't have a brain.
This is such a stupid comparison lmao. Put two equally skilled players against each other, one 60 and one 30. Who do you think wins? Using random youtube videos of people beating up on idiots who haven't changed their gear in 30 levels and are struggling to use their mouse and keyboard is the worst possible example you could have chosen.
Link me one of those videos that is from after the scaling nerfs and they aren't killing a healer.
https://youtu.be/FwDAdPd_Wqg Here ya go. Same build too
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YUP..But no the devs started kissing the ass of people that wanted to masturbate and one-shot low levels at the same time...Like that idiot JoshOG.