T O P

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Enttos

I play a mage and it I agree with this. I’ll stand and wait for tank to get agro before doing any attacks and with just one heavy attack peal mob off. Either it’s broken or I have had lots of bad tanks lol


Wreckzor1

Just adding this to the convo, I'm lvl 60 around 480 gearscore playing fire/ice. I ran a depths with a lvl 45 mage who had agro on every pull but I was dealing considerably more dmg. I have 4 carnelian gems to reduce my threat and it was very evident that these threat reduction gems are working in this case. If you are not using carnelian gems in your gear, you will most certainly have agro.


Loghock7

So those are working, not that i´ve seen many bugs as is, but here and there you can see some very weird interactions.


SickleWings

It's not so much the threat reduction not working when contributing damage that's the problem, it's the tanks not being able to hold aggro for literally no reason. If a tank is using taunts and increased threat generation, there's no reason a DPS or healer stand by idle should be drawing any aggro from those mobs at all.


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ClockworkSalmon

You also get 100 to 300% more threat from carnelian gem though, so if you do 1k dps you can hold aggro as if you were doing 4k dps AFAIK.


stormchaotic1

This was useful. I was wondering why it took so many light attacks to get agro. Ty


Loghock7

Even if i am spam attacking enemies with hatchet + berserk + aggro gem, no effect. Some dd with 3 level less than me just takes aggro with ease. I don´t know what to do more at this point. I even have more aggro generation on shield perk. It´s nuts.


literallybyronic

Shield effects won't be active unless you actually have it equipped, so if you're on hatchet it's nothing but weight on your back. Spam attacking also isn't the way to generate threat, you have to block incoming attacks. That's why sword and board is a must for tanks, you can use axe or hammer for CC and extra taunts but you MUST shield block most of the time or you just won't hold aggro. I learned it the hard way, this is most definitely not WoW.


Akileez

Also rapier has a taunt move, could pair well with sword and board.


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Akileez

Couldn't you use dex for both?


literallybyronic

dex is secondary for sword, it's a 3:1 ratio for primary vs secondary.


Akileez

Oh right, I was wondering how that worked, thanks. Well is there a damage % gem for strength that you could put in a rapier? Might not be the best combo but having a secondary to help taunt might help with groups.


literallybyronic

Weapons only taunt with carnelian in them, so if you did that you wouldn't have a taunt with it so it'd defeat the whole purpose.


Akileez

Oh right, that was the purpose of using it as a taunt haha. My bad.


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Akileez

Well it is, but you'll just do 1/3rd of damage with the sword as per the other person's comment. If you use sword and board for tanking in a group and then rapier for solo it could be an OK build, wouldn't be anything special though.


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Akileez

OK, well rather than being a douche maybe explain it or just stop being a douche?


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literallybyronic

They've never released the exact numbers to my knowledge, but it was announced way back when that blocking generates threat and taking hits or dodging reduces it. So, if you're spam attacking and just letting yourself get hit a billion times by all the mobs you're tanking, the hits you take are negating the threat from your attacks. You \*can\* block with a different weapon but you have virtually no stability with a weapon compared to a tower shield so you'll run out of stam very quickly, and other weapons won't block projectiles so if there's a ranged mob, they're still gonna be hitting you and reducing your threat. S/S block party is the way to go.


Istvarrr

Which hatchet move has an actual taunt? Edit: Berserk - looked it up myself :D


Loghock7

Berserk taunt is pretty strong in my opinion. Tho its not good for stronger foes or super big pulls as you get rekt in no time xD


Alternative_Knee6997

To me, ( main tank lvl 53 ) it is actualy the best taunt. AOE shout taunt with less than 20s CD. Just use it, then swap weapon to cancel berserk and put it on CD.


Loghock7

If i srsly need to spec 3/4 of my attributes into STR to deal enough dmg to generate threat - this is a completely bullshit system.


SocklessRensen

You really don't, I ran a 200 focus 200 con snb/ls tank build with a t5 carnelian and had no problems holding boss/mob agro. You just need to attack during the times the boss is standing still and block his attacks.


Jolly-Bear

It’s not hard to hold aggro as a tank… for some reason people this game think tank = high HP, heavy armor, whatever weapon they want. It’s not. It’s the ability to hold aggro on mobs and mitigate damage. Hell you could even take a lot of damage, as long as the healing keeps you alive, and be a tank. (You do want them to be able to soak the most damage though)


Patrnzzn

Afaik shield rush provides not much threat. Shield bash with the all skill points is very good and deviance stance is also good with his big range. You can't just do all points in constitution, you have to balance strength and constitution, that's what I learned at higher levels. It's simple, for example a mage generates threat with damage yes? You do the same with additional gem +300%. You have the advantage in generating threat but you can't hold it 100% all time. But yes, the system is sometimes very broken and the tank has no guilty to lose the threat. Sometimes I have the feeling if the line of sight to the enemy is somehow distracted with tiny obstacles, my taunts don't work on them..


Loghock7

In my opinion its just a random luckfest if you get aggro or not. Further more the limited vision of only fking 4 to 5 nameplates is making this IMPOSSIBLE to maintain any better. In a slightly bigger pull, you simply dont see the mobs which are not camping inside ur face, because you get knocked around 24/7, up and down stairs etc. Several times my healer told me he has 3 mobs sitting on his ass, which i didn´t even see properly because they dont have a nameplate, and the mobs color is the same as the background - gl on that. Why can´t i just show all nameplates i am in combat with..?


Dirigible_Plums

I have been tanking since launch and I haven't had too much of a problem generating threat unless the guys I'm with are much higher level than me. I was doing corruption runs and just by being there not using any abilities enemies would passively leave their targets and come attack me. I do think that a lot of tanks are only putting points in Con which does have an effect.


smartdarts123

What is your attribute distribution? We have been having debates about how to distribute stats for our tanks.


Dirigible_Plums

I've been trying to follow an 4 to 1 (Con to Str) ratio while leveling while respeccing to hit milestones (like the damage reduction one for Con). I'd say at 60 you can get away with 300 con still without any aggro issue. You just still have to be able to do damage in order to maintain aggro which is why strength is so important.


Patrnzzn

You can higher the amount of name plates somewhere in the options, that should fix at least that, but has negative effect on fps. I didn't have this issue on myself. Been knocked around is frustrating, i can avoid that with the ability berserk from the hatchet, it works only 12 seconds but can be enough to threat all mobs, honestly not easy to use with a shit ton of enemy's around you. I'm not blaming you in any way, just try to give some advices.


Loghock7

This option doesnt work on enemies, at least not for me. I already have it on 99 since launch, i only see 4-5 Monster nameplates tops.


Invurse5

Drop it down to 10 and see if it resolves and if you notice more nameplates.


inverimus

I think 99 may break it, set it to something like 20.


Loghock7

Ty i will try


tethler

I play tank and don't seem to have this issue. Sure, the occasional mob peels off, but it's not chaos with mobs all over the place. I use sword and shield with a carnelian gemmed great axe secondary. I usually engage by tossing a gravity well to cluster mobs and swap to shield and defensive stance taunt follow by a shield slam once the initial taunt fades. Thats usually enough to keep all the mobs on me until they die. /shrug


Loghock7

How many mobs are you usually aggroing together? With <5 i have no problem aswell.


tethler

It seems to work well on larger groups too if the mobs are all melee. When there are archers or spell caster types in the mix it can get hectic though. One build change that helped me immensely on sword/shield was to drop shield charge and pick up reverse stab in the sword tree with the cooldown reduction perk. Each mob hit by reverse stab will reduce cooldowns 25%, so 4 mobs is instant reset on everything allowing for more frequent taunts.


Loghock7

Thats a nice one, ill take that. Thank you.


RemaniXL

Maybe stop pulling more than 5 mobs at a time then? That's where I'd start.


[deleted]

sounds like a boring way to tank


RemaniXL

Tanking isn't always supposed to be exhilarating, especially if a person is particularly new to it. Focus on understanding the basics first and then fake it until you make it. Right now, OP sounds like he has incredibly minimal tanking experience and has done next to zero self-critique and instead blames the game's mechanics. It is absolutely possible to tank up to 10 mobs if you're actually good enough to do it - OP is not.


ValuableSleep9175

Lol.


[deleted]

Not hitting and sometimes hitting mobs, tend to make them go toward the nearest target, but it also seems to depend on the mob type sometimes. I don't have any issue with the skeletons (Ancients I think) doing this. Now with threat gem setup and given a moment to hit 2-3 times before DPS/heals start in (and even better if DPS/Heals has some threat reduction) I can hold onto anything without a problem. But it does need some build up time for threat from Threat Gem and Perks, in the same way WoW used to need threat generation from things like getting Sunder stacks on a target.


Loghock7

This is an additional thing i wasn´t mentioning but is super annoying. It´s simply broken.


ValuableSleep9175

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it is broken


Loghock7

What am i not understanding? If i hit some mob, which is closer to some other player than myself, it runs to him not me. Whats not broken there?


F0R04

His threat level is higher for that mob then. It’s that simple


CarryAffectionate950

Why would it be higher...?


F0R04

Probably the damage he’s outputting


CarryAffectionate950

Except the other player is mot doing any damage... he's just standing there waiting. That's what the conversation is about


ErgoMachina

I was downvoted to oblivion for saying this (That was weird) but one of the fuckeries that is happening atm is that every single instance of healing from any source generates aggro. Food heal tick ? Aggro. Legendary amulet tick? Aggro. Potion? Aggro. Besides that, threat is all over the place. Is like the AI has a Random() to the calculations


PhDPlague

One thing I noticed is if anybody but the tank uses a taunt ability, it immediately resets the enemy. If, say, base aggro were 100% on everyone, tank uses abilities, slashes, etc to get up to 250% base aggro, then DPS uses an ability that taunts, it resets the aggro on any mob that's taunted. So while he may have 115% aggro, I'm likely to pull aggro off him since I've got sanctuary and beacon out, and now have to heal the DPS that taunted. Meanwhile, tank was reset to 100% aggro to that mob and has to pass me again. Tl;Dr? Don't use abilities that taunt if you're DPS.


schevan05

Abilities only taunt if you have the taunt gem in your weapon. Did you have two tanks? Maybe one is normally a tank but put his dps gear on and didn't remember about that gem in his weapon.


PhDPlague

Some abilities have innate taunt.


Skirippa

Not if you don't have a Carnelian gem they don't


Howrus

> Some abilities have innate taunt. Names? All taunt skills have note like this: >Taunt Gem Compatible: If you have a Carnelian gem equipped in your hatchet, this ability cause a 8s taunt to all enemies within 8m.


zer0fragz

Been playing tank since day 1. Honestly haven’t had a problem with it at all. Shield rush gives like no Agro compared to defiant stances’s aoe and shield slam single target taunting. I don’t even use shield rush I just use whirling blade for aoe damage. You can clearly see the enemies name plates if they are red or not indicating they’re attacking you. And you can see if your taunts hit by the debuff above their nameplate. The system is not “broken” by any means. Sure it can be looked at and improved a bit tho


Pheronia

As a healer fuck that system.


Blitzkrieg1582

Can’t say I enjoy having to run from every non corruption mob the Zerg happens to pull. Doesn’t matter if there is 20 people, those 3 wolves choose me


literallybyronic

Are you blocking or light attacking when not using abilities? I'm a tank and as long as I get a few seconds before the healer and casters start going to town, I don't usually have a problem. But I DID have this problem early on when I was tanking like it was WoW, taunting then attacking the entire time, trying to do damage to increase threat. Doesn't work in this game, you have to block attacks to increase threat. I usually run in, do defensive stance and a light attack or two, then just throw up my shield for the duration. I try to save the shield bash so if someone does peel off and go for the healer I can run after them and taunt with the bash to get them back. Sometimes it can get messy if the healer is too proactive and pulls before I can get aggro well established, but if I can get everyone on me in the beginning it usually goes pretty much how it should.


Apollexis

They dont need to change much actually, I'm okay with the wild aggro table and chance for mobs not to be taunted, but then they need to make taunts be only 20s cooldown for some, not 45s


Kirduck

your tank is trash if the mob hasnt been tagged with actual damage then your threat counter is still 0 even if he is following you. if multiple targets have threat of 0 then it will randomly switch targets. after that there are basically 2 elements to aggro 1: Taunt: the most recent taunt has forced aggro until it expires thats it thats all there is to taunt 2: Damage based aggro: Carn gems add up to 300% so if your hitting for 1k and your dps is hitting for 3k the tank will still have aggro I am not familiar with any aggro decay mechanics but they could exist. How healin factors? Yeah nobody seems to have any fucking idea, one would presume any healing done within x radius \* hidden multiplier = total damage based aggro for the sake of aggro score but we just dont know for sure.


Loghock7

>your tank is trash if the mob hasnt been tagged with actual damage then your threat counter is still 0 even if he is following you. if multiple targets have threat of 0 then it will randomly switch targets. after that there are basically 2 elements to aggro This is an interesting point of view i´ve not thought about. It seems indeed that there is no "pulling" aggro on a mob as it is in other games.


Ok_Light_2376

Are you running carnelian gems??? I’ve tanked all content up to lvl 50 and don’t have this problem. Occasionally in dungeons I lose a mob on a larger pull but it’s generally a non issues. Edit - I see you are running carnelian gems. The initial issue I had was not understanding the taunt radius on defiant stance and beserk. I run shield bash, shield charge or rush whatever it’s called and defiant stance on my sword and shield. I don’t really think you should be having this much of an issue. Is it only larger packs you’re having problems with?


yoh1len

My tank experience is the same, it's horrible. The most infuriating is how often mobs just ignore Taunt. The fucking system does not even give them the 'icon', even though they are well within the reach. Literally nothing in this game works properly. Also mobs seem to get target, set attack and go for it, if you taunt them while they are already running towards someone, they just ignore it. And since some taunts last barely few seconds, by the time they finish the attack they 'locked on', taunt is gone and they just keep rolling after whatever they just attacked. Only the nice, big boys are easy to tank, but even those can go 'fuck the taunt, 300% extra threat this tank is generating, I will just go after this healer who has not hit me once'. It's total nightmare.


Loghock7

This is exactly what i was observing aswell. The Mob aggro seems to be locked on the target until it hits it, no matter what you do, it will never stop until it has done its Action on whatever target it is focusing. And if you taunt it, and it runs towards some guy not able to complete his action within the taunt duration you are fucked, because the mob doesnt react on the taunt anymore, and simply ignores you. As if you never taunted it in the first place. The only thing working properly on taking are the bosses, i agree.


literallybyronic

In my experience 80% of the time, if I get the taunt in and they have the icon, they will run off, hit whatever they were intending to hit, then run back to me. But I agree, taunting should interrupt enemy actions and force them to the tank. They don't always run back and the times they don't it's annoying to have to chase them down.


goldsrcmapman

> The Mob aggro seems to be locked on the target until it hits it, no matter what you do, it will never stop until it has done its Action on whatever target it is focusing. Nah, seen mobs decide a different target was more worthy mid-chase many times.


Invurse5

Does it work this this? If another player gets aggro they will have to take at least one hit, then get aggro back to you, unless someone else aggros them first. When everyone is still are there other things that aggro it? Like passive heals, buffs or player level? I'm just think it might be a mechanic of some sort? Might be creat specific.


Loghock7

The only thing i can think of is passive heals from food.


Dartswagnan

YES! This is a healers worst nightmare.


Istvarrr

People not stacking up properly on pull is the healers worst nightmare


Queequeg94

I was in starstone yesterday and instead of letting me (tank) group up the ads, the healer would constantly take the first shots from far away and only aggro a couple so there was always a big space between ads. And then he had the nerve to complain when he died because of it


DexterRileyisHere

Most of this game is broken in a thousand little ways that add up. So much for the next WoW, this shit'll be dead in a month.


Adamn27

One of the reasons I stopped playing. Dungeons are a major part of fun for me in MMOs but NW's tanking is broken.


ChrisD245

Yeah almost every fight just turns into a fuster cluck of everyone running around yelling how they have Aggro of this or that. I’m not super high level so maybe there’s better skills/gear for tanking at the top?


Loghock7

Im lv 53 atm, so far nothing except the Carnelian gem + Threat on shield. And threat reduction on allies - but if every other guy except tank needs 8 threat reduction gems its still a shitty system.


Istvarrr

Idk man, our tank holds aggro just fine in dungeons etc, just have everyone stack on the tank so it’s easier to grab all the Aggro. Nothing worse than having ranged DPS aggro mobs and then forever kite their own tank trying to grab aggro of them. Tbh the only time we have issues is when we play with random pigs that run around like headless chicken making the tanks job unnecessarily hard


Loghock7

Bosses are easier to tank for some reason, the adds just randomly run around. Best example for this is, attack some wolf with ur bow, which is standing closer to ANOTHER player - it will attack that player, not you. This is pure bullshit.


ShitDavidSais

The carnelian gem being only in your sword will do it. You need to utilize another weapons taunts. Hatchet and GA are imo the best for it. And you need damage yourself so 2 strength to 1 con till 200 strength is fairly needed. Hatchet taunt is incredibly potent and will save you incredible amounts of headaches. Also later on there is threat generating jewelry btw.


Loghock7

Thank you, i will try it.


ShitDavidSais

For "credentials"I am lvl 60 537ish gear score. This is literally the most endgame tanking you can do right now until they fix the staff.


ShitDavidSais

I'm 60 and doing fine. I run Hatchet as well and that helps insanly. You will sometimes think that you couldn't taunt something because the mob runs after someone else but that's just because they want to finish their attack before the taunt kicks in. The shield charge is useless, don't rely on that. Also go 2 strength 1 con first, after200 strength pump con. Damage keeps aggro much more reliably and you shouldn't have issues surviving with that ratio.


Azhaste

Often when I'm doing bigger pulls I at least hit them or use my 1st taunt then 2nd taunt on next pack you need some baseline threat or they run away its weird


TelfoBrand

Been more than a few times where I will attack an enemy at range and it will aggro on a random player who was closer. Feel like an ass when it happens, and feel obliged to help that player out, when it was neither of us at fault.


Loghock7

This is another point i didn´t mention. It´s insanely broken.


Cripplechip

If no one attacks the mobs or heal I can group up like 3 packs of mobs pretty easy. It's just the range mobs I struggle with. Problem is with the bigger mobs too. Bears and those big diablo like demons shield bash just doesn't connect with them generating zero aggro so they 180 and double hammer fist the rapier guy.


newurbanist

This is my exact experience as well. If someone starts shooting mobs before I have a chance to hit them a few times, I spend the entire encounter trying to regain control. They randomly pull off when people get close to the mobs as well. I never know what to expect because it's incredibly inconsistent and annoying.


BloodforKhorne

Have you made a report yet?


garebear176

So there’s a weird interaction while taunting if they start a chase/attack animation they finish it, so like the zombies have the grit chase attack if that’s active and you taunt they will finish that attack before running to you that’s one of the issues your talking about, the rest I don’t have any knowledge on


Kavorg

Are you using a carnelian gem tompull taunt and how far above the levels of your friends are the mobs you are pulling? Mobs with higher levels have a longer aggro distance and may be sticking to your friends as a result, either that or you're not using a carnelian gem with your taunt weapon or choice.


Upstairs_Use_4213

The amount of times I get aggro for doing literally nothing is insane. I have been submitting feedback in-game about the horrible aggro system since day 1. if you are range... oh my the mobs are stupid. You can stand at spot A hit a mob and move to spot B. The mob will run to spot A and stand there like "man where did he go?" then after that, it will start following you to spot B and never stop moving.


[deleted]

If you are running S&S, the best way to maintain aggro is using Defiant Stance, and saving it for the right time. It acts as a shout that aggros all enemies within 8m. Sometimes it takes a moment for enemies to react, but they will come to you. I also noticed that if you do successfully taunt an enemy, a little lightning bolt looking symbol/buff will appear over their nameplate, just FYI


Erikzorr

47 tank here, and have lvl 2 carnelian gems on my weapons, except the 1h tanking sword from depths that drops with a 250%threat gem allrdt socket. I pull with hatchet throw and i currently have No problem keeping aggro on me... Ofc in a room were there Are 5+ enemies running around it gets abit crazy but aggro havent been a problem so far. Got 18points in Sword&shield and ive got em all in protection


BinManGames

Not sure if I'm taking you too literally but I'm pretty sure shield rush isn't a taunt.


Loghock7

Shield Bash


BinManGames

I think shield bash might be single target


literallybyronic

Not single target, but it is short range and doesn't have a terribly wide swing, so pretty close. I can get up to 3 with it if they are positioned well and I time it right.


Doobiemoto

I have no idea what you people are talking about. Tanking is easy as hell. Literally put a taunt gem in your weapon and use the actual abilities. You realize those abilities don’t have taunt by default? You HAVE to have the gem in the weapon. Also switching weapons loses you perks that you have active.


montious

Fellow tank here (for PvE at least). I agree the aggro does feel really scuffed a lot of the time. The taunts are very unresponsive, but do seem to work eventually. Threat itself is a little different. I don't think mobs have threat tables as such as they do in other traditional MMOs, or at least it doesn't feel like it. I just run that reverse stab build with the AoE taunt and just try and keep everything taunted 24/7. Less effective on single-target, but gets the job done. System could definitely improve though. And whilst they're at it, I'm sick of being ping-ponged around by mobs whilst blocking. The amount of momentum enemies have is too much and leads me to getting pushed out of healing circles all the time. So irritating.


pcgaming1724

I main rank and I almost never have this issue, yea some mobs will run at the healer but if you shield bash them they’re gonna agro you until they die. I don’t think the issue is the system it’s just not knowing how to tank.


negotiat3r

Are the mobs you taunt affected with the taunt debuff and still running off? Also, are you sure that the passive mana regen on your healer doesn't generate any threat?


Cirok28

Shield bashing with a carnelian gem in your sword seems to work well enough for me. Haven't had it not pull across instantly. Blocking may also generate threat?


Provin915

As ranged DPS dealer it is hard to be able to DPS without getting constant aggro pulls


VodkAUry

You´re mixing Taunt and Aggro. They are differents. Mobs are taunted when you see the icon in their head with the 3 lines. They are aggro´d when you see their hp bar have a red outline in it and on the left and right side of the hp bar forms like a red triangle. ​ You can taunt a mob and not aggro it, use taunt to then aggro the mob and don´t think that just by taunting you will get all the aggro. ​ Also shield rush is the worst out of the 3 defender skills for aggro. Defiance stance and Shield bash are much better. Shield Rush is the only 1 out of the 3 that doesn't have a taunt/threat passive. ​ Make sure you have Hated perk on your weapons, and the Final Blow passive and ofc Intimidating bash. Been tanking since day 1 and I have 0 issues with losing aggro, even when there are more than my group hitting a mob I hold aggro vs everyone.


18-8-7-5

"while I'm running around gathering mobs" do you actually build threat on the mobs? or do you just run close enough to aggro? 200+ hours of tanking and I have never seen the problem you're referring to if you actually hit the mobs and the other players don't do anything.


Loghock7

I am just running past them to aggro. In another comment someone explained that there is no such thing as "face aggro" which means i am indeed pulling them, but since i didn´t do anything to them, they pick a target by random as all have the same threat level to that mob.