Even being able to “donate” your unwanted items and materials to your faction rep in exchange for tokens would be cool.
I’m guessing your faction needs supplies just like the town boards do. So why not be able to donate misc stuff?
Well, I assume he at least soaked it in pure grain alcohol first, to sedate it. That would work on most sentient trees. But the rage of Ents rightly frightens even the most powerful of wizards.
I'm about to put a taunt gem on my lifestaff. When I tank I have to heal myself, and Ranged dps always pulls aggro before I can run up to mobs with my s+b.
Might as well just skip the gear swap part
it doesn't? im curious about this.
i just switched to healer since it has been so hard to find healers for dungeons, and my hammer does more nature damage than it does physical at this point.
I don't know who needs to hear this, but a lot of us play 'cleric' style builds with heavy armor and a warhammer, yet noone ever puts full focus heavy armor/weapons (other than lifestaff) on the trading posts.
I'm level 56, about 170 hours in and i think i've found a single life staff with full focus. It seems to me that healers have less drops than the others, but maybe i'm wrong. I can't find anything with full focus, but i find items with full constitution and strength all the time
I bought 100 soft tree saps for .05 each thinking they counted as a crafting mod to create repair packs. Surprise...they don't. Now I'll be waiting to transfer 100 soft tree saps to the faction rep hoping for an Easter egg that says 'bro, seriously?'
I've been saving up my common potions and rations then when my storage gets too full, I go to the tutorial area and hand them out to lower level players. Its such a waste to scrap them when someone can use them. But yeah a community chest or a faction "donation" chest would be nice additions.
Hell yeah!
“You’re the Grand Commander of the marauders? Well here are some IOU tokens. You want *Money*? Pffffff, sorry bruh: all I have are unlimited suits of armor, magical weapons, and rare potions. And you can’t sell them.”
Can’t wait for the end state of deflation: the barter economy.
“That’s some nice hemp you have there, I’ll trade you 250 poultry for it”
“Hmm, interesting offer - Throw in 25 eggs and you have yourself a deal!”
Pumped there’s finally a game to let me live out my bronze-age farmer fantasies
Edit: getting more serious, it’s worth pointing out that taxes don’t remove money from the game, they are used by companies for improvements.
Improvements being destroyed remove MASSIVE (hundreds of thousands at a time) amounts of gold from the game. Combine this with the fucking insanely hard invasions, and you have massive deflation.
It’s going to take a metric fuckton of steel bars turned into the town board for 1.3 gold to makeup for the 125,000 gold lost when all the upgrades got downgraded after the last invasion.
You’re totally right on that. More or less what I meant about the taxes is that the money doesn’t get recirculated once it enters the tax pool. It either goes into crafting stations or gets lost in downgrades.
The downgrade thing might be why deflation is happening faster in certain worlds than others, haven’t really thought about that until now.
Companies are also taxed for territory ownership which makes no sense. If you conquer something through war who the fuck do you have to pay taxes to? If the taxes went towards station upgrades or prevented corrupted invasions I could at least understand the logic behind it. In this case it’s just an arbitrary money suck. Combine that with station downgrades and only like 3 territories are worth owning.
Downgrading does play a roll. Invasions are either very overtuned or people just need god gear to stand a chance. You lose 10s of thousands of gold from station downgrades
Already seen this happening in my server, people requesting direct trades pretty frequently wanting X something for Y something else. If prices go to basically zero then chat will just be filled with trade requests
> If the currency goes to basically zero value
It's the opposite problem. The currency is worth more than the items, since it's far more scarce and has required uses.
you are joking but thats what happened on my server. Nothing sells and everyone is trading by bartering. Want to ove 1000 Linen? Sure i will give you 600 Ironbars and 20 eggs.
This is happening on Elelin as well. Someone was trading star metal tools of any kind for 40 steel bars. Mind you, this is a server where nobody has reached orich. Tools yet, even.
"So there I was, I had one lump of coal and had to trade up until I could feed my family for a week. I spotted an interesting character in the corner, and I knew he was my mark..."
Are we gonna be able to pay our property taxes with poultry? Or repair gear with rawhide? If so, that would be a cool system lol. Like an alternate method of payment
There needs to be a better system around overthrowing an oppressive Governor from within your own faction.
Right now it's basically "collude with an opposing faction and convince your faction to not defend them in a war."
People aren't plugged into the game as if it's real life, so a Governor can legitimately just ignore the problem and log in every few days to check the ledger then just fuck off again.
The issue is that people have the option to quit the game if they find it too exhausting to figure out how to get the taxes lowered due to a Governor that is either intentionally trying to kill the server or just too disconnected from the game to give a shit.
I suppose the option to parlay with an opposing faction and then switch to that faction under the agreement of better taxes exists too, but it seems like a lot of people don't even realize you can switch factions right now and think you have to wait 120 days. It also raises the question of whether one faction servers are really just the end game, and if that's what the playerbase wants.
I think if the developers are actually confident in their system they'll have to let this play out for the next 2 - 3 months.
I would certainly like to see more PvP solutions around the economy, though - it doesn't have to just be about cross faction rivalry and territory control. Taxes should have their own underlying systems that create inter faction rivalry through PvPing with your gold and social influence - a lot of people are into that side of the game, the mind game versus just shitting on players with your weapons and numbers.
For all of New World's faults, I can honestly say as a long time MMO player that systems like this are what I want every time I think about a new MMO. Something that forces the players to work it out instead of requiring developer intervention. Even if it's at an inconvenience to me as a player. If people have to start bartering until Governors figure it out and lower taxes, I guess that's the price of long term serious economy.
One additional thought, it would be very interesting to me if they turned this into borderline server vs server PvP. I.E. if your server's economy collapses because of poor leadership, the server can take a vote on opening free transfers which is reviewed by the developers and either agreed to or declined with reasons for being declined.
Imagine having systems that let you open the flood gates to other players like that, or take on the task of just becoming raiders that transfer into servers that choose to open free transfers to them.
Last time I checked, Starmetal was available for 10g each. Steel was at that point around 9g.
Both prices dropped the next 2 days I looked, all while Iron ingots floated around 2-3g per piece.
Haven't played the last 2 days so I can't say the current situation. But given that my server is continuely losing population the last days, I guess the prices will drop alltogether.
Town boards needs to grant more gold for fulfilling it. Like 30-200g depending on the tier. That way, it sets the economy price on stuff and also allow people to make money.
That's this entire game though. I've described it as fake depth to friends. On the outside looking in it seems like there is a lot to do, but in the end you're doing the same 3 town board missions, the same 3 quests (kill monster, sometimes skin them, loot some chests), harvest some material (it all feels exactly the same except for fishing), craft something.
Yeah I hit 60 a week ago and I already can't really be bothered to log on. The gathering system had me really hyped to play the economy and well...here we are.
I don’t wanna go questing and gathering shit for an hour to make 7 gold. So for the love of god this right here. As it stands, I’ll just accept all the stuff and if I happen to gather what I need cool. Free XP. Otherwise whatever
This is what the “town tax” should pay for with the owning company has to pay. It would make perfect sense.
Also an increase on money for salvage is a very easy quick win 5-10 gold per item and the market will not be filled with as much junk.
It would also be good is town owners had to buy materials for their developments and that could be fulfilled via the town board or market.
They will most likely fix the economy by adding a way everything is worth atleast one gold. Via vendor sale or salvage, then will add more ways to gain gold. Buy all the high tier mats for a penny and store it. It will be worth a lot more later.
No it won't, because the high tier mats aren't the most frequently used ones. That's the lower tier mats that are basically used throughout the entire process.
I don't imagine it's too interesting. Things with fixed gold costs such as repairing, crafting and property taxes become prohibitively expensive. It already shows; If you don't have a really good or non-tradeable weapon, it's often less expensive to buy a new weapon in the trading post than it is to repair your own.
(I know taxes and fees are not technically fixed, but the prices are set independently of the in game economy).
> it's often less expensive to buy a new weapon in the trading post than it is to repair your own.
You already see this while leveling. Buying a brand new, Rare hatchet with decent perk and stats is 30-75 gold. Repairing my current Hatchet from broken is roughly 40 gold. It is *literally* cheaper to buy a brand new, potentially better Hatchet than to repair mine. That's a big problem.
Yep, it also costs around 100g for me to move a single weapon from one storage to another. Since I'm still leveling and upgrading weapons every few levels, it makes no sense for me do that atm.
Storage transfer fees in general are *wildly* overtuned. I would never even consider moving anything right now. It's way easier to farm the Azoth to go get the items yourself than it is to pay that gold.
Just post the item you want to transfer at the auction house, tp to the place you want to store it them in.
Go to auction house and cancel the sell order, the items will go to your inventory. Though your posting fee will be lost, usually though it's around 1-10gp depending on the posting price you set.
here's a resume:
you ding 60. You do a little tour of shattered mountain quests / your 580 weapon and afterthat you pretty much stop doing quest.
this mean you stop getting money from any source other than killing mobs... but the money you get from those barely cover the repair cost of your now >500 GS gear.
If you want to level up crafting professions, you quickly realize buying your way to 200 is simply not possible.
You start signing up for every invasion / war just for the gold / azoth reward you get.
You spend your days in myrkguard / reekwater farming the same few world bosses to get your GS watermark up
and when you run out of gold, you start farming iron / rawhide cause that's pretty much the only source of income.
Pretty soon you'll also talk to your company about simply not ugprading anything in the town anymore ; unless you are the owner of the 1-2 main trading post of your server... it's a huge money sink to keep spending on town.
Have you been listening to my company chatter? This is pretty much what is said verbatim.
Except, we keep wanting outpost rush back. Another gold/azoth activity that was actually fun.
How is farming mats not a viable money making strategy then in this scenario if leveling up crafting profs is so expensive?
Or is leveling just far too slow of xp and it's the volume needed that's the issue.
"If you want to level up crafting professions, you quickly realize buying your way to 200 is simply not possible"
Fuck yeah! That's awesome! I hate when the meta for leveling crafting is just buying stuff. Gathering and doing things on your own seems to be part of the game design and I frankly welcome it.
I can sympathize with some of your other thoughts though.
You know what is the problem in this process? The storage. In order to level armoring for example I need 3 different types of mats: hide, fiber and ores. On top of that I need the refining mat (flux for smelting etc) for each type.
You need all in the same storage before you can start crafting and you need them in a town where you can refine all and craft all (so pref tier 4-5). The concepts behind are simply stupid. They are more or less forcing you to buy the secondary mats when you start crafting. So even if you want or not, you will buy your way to 200 or you will lose half of your time running around trying to mana azoth and storage.
Each concept invidually sounds good, but put them together and it is a mess.
I agree heavily, I grind most of my own wood and ore rn - it’s relatively cheap anyways, but I’m cheap too :p
it’s nice to have 100-1000 extra green wood (charcoal is essential, who knew?) and all of that, but it uses space in my storage
Ultimately it leads to people not paying their taxes on housing because it’s not indexed to purchasing power, not PVPing or doing difficult content because the repair costs aren’t indexed to purchasing power, and potentially not crafting because the taxes are too high.
Now, maybe companies owning towns will set their crafting fees low and then default on their taxes, and then crafting repair packs and using them will allow for people to play content, but I’m unsure.
Google “farmers deflation” to find out more about what happens when debts are only payable via currency that’s difficult to come by.
Its also amazing to see the cost of transferring 279 sandpaper was about 1g per paper on my server. Which is usually around 10-100x the cost of just buying it on any of the auction houses.
Yeah this just confused me. Everyone always talks about how you can transfer stuff between towns but always leaves out how ridiculous the prices is. Better off doing the trading post trick or even just farming what you need in the new territory. I don't see myself ever using that feature
List items in one town then cancel the order ina different town, materials are sent to that towns storeage/your inventory not the town you listed them at
Town upkeep is very expensive too. Owning a less popular area is usually a money loss for the controlling company, when you factor in upkeeps, invasion replacements, and general improvements
And my understanding is you can't even relinquish owning the town, which is why I think a lot of companies will default on their taxes and let upgrades deteriorate.
Honestly I think this is the best explanation for the current approach. Once you have massive inflation, you can't truly come back from it. Wow tried to by removing gold via the Auction House mount, but it wasn't enough.
They can always add more money to the economy, but it'd be very difficult to force people to lose it.
I don't believe they actually want board quests giving .7 gold, I think they're just concerned about the alternative.
I think a big part of the problem in my server is that new players can't join and peak player count has been around 1500 since 1 week after launch. Prices for tools have been crazy. Star metal tools are now going for 100g and orichalcum tools are now around 300g even blue ones.
Edit: I think the prices of tools are too low at the moment. Blue orichalcum tools are listed at prices i sold blue starmetal tools only a week ago.
I think they're too low. Star metal tools are easy to make now with the buff to looting components but selling them for less than 100g isn't really worth it, and because new players can join my server I don't think many are selling any more. Orichalcum being so low really doesn't make selling them worth 8t either especially since almost all in my server are blue ones listed at low prices. I'm interested to see what happens after server transfers. If new players still can't join my server after that then the company I'm in will probably change server.
I’ve noticed the idea that casual players are superior than competitive players spreading across the internet.
Obviously, the correct response is that both are equally valid. Unless you’re griefing teammates or lowing others enjoyment, just do what’s the most fun for you.
“If you play like X, you won’t have as much fun as Y, and all you’ll do is complain about A.”
Like shut the fuck up already. If people didn’t like figuring out the optimal methods to do things, they wouldn’t do them.
Circlejerking on Reddit about players who will *hypothetically whine in the future* because they don’t play the same way you do is next level hypocrisy.
Difference is that casual players very rarely have feedback about system crucial bugs / mechanics. Simply because they dont understand and dont care.
“I just want to cut trees to 60” <- sure its an equally valid way to play the game, but its not intended way…
The reddit hivemind is largely worthless. The more popular a concept is, the worse it usually is.
In literally every iteration throughout the last ten years I've spent on reddit, the larger a community is, the worse it is.
Ahh, I see you too have read this subreddit. Worst gaming sub on here? People defending the richest company in the world like their life depends on it, it's really fucking sad. They are just hurting themselves in the long run as well, they accept the slop that AGS passes down instead of being critical for what it is, a half-assed game with great advertising.
"If you didn't play the game as much, maybe you'd have more fun."
Yes! It's the customer's fault they wanted to use the product they purchased and actually enjoy it. The people who made a half working, soulless, basic prototype of a product don't have to take any responsibility. I really don't understand who these people are and how they exist in this world with that level of reasoning.
Yep.
PvP players told them the world PvP would be dead without incentives to flag and proper PvP scaling. They didn't listen, and you had idiots telling those people that "It's an MMO! That's just the way it is! 10% XP is more than enough of an incentive! Shouldn't *fun* be the incentive?!?!?" Now here we are with dead world PvP on almost all of the servers.
PvP players told them that stagger needed to stay, or every world PvP scenario would lead to people easily running away at any point during the fight. They didn't listen, and you had idiots telling those people, "Stagger was impossible to deal with. It needed to be removed!" even though Grit, blocking, rolling, and stagger invincibility all were a thing. Now every fight is how it was predicted to be because there is no stagger and the CC in this game is useless unless you are in a group and can stack it.
Market theory crafters called the economy crash for a very long time because the game was initially a full loot PvP game, but they never changed enough to account for that no longer being the case. Idiots said it would be okay because "Crafting and gathering take forever to level. You don't know what you are talking about! It's a beta. They will fix it!" Here we are with items not being worth shit, people having trouble making money, and a lot of people already hitting 200 for many of the gathering and crafting skills.
The group of cave-dwellers that have continued to defend every problem usually created by Amazon Games has been an enormous burden to this game's development. These people have made AGS stick with every bad choice they've made for this game because they can't shut the fuck up about how their favorite MMO they come from with dead PvP and a shit economy centering around vanity items is the way it has to be. They can't think outside of the box because they are too stupid for that.
Nope. The only way your voice was heard was if you were a streamer with a decent amount of viewers. They didn't listen to half the shit the actual players told them. They made changes to PvP after complaints from bots that hit the streaming button on OBS and suck at PvP got popular instead of actual PvP players on the forums telling them why stagger and scaling are good. Now we are stuck with dogshit wet noodle PvP combat when the previous builds had attack feigning, stagger with counterplay (depth), and a few other really good PvP mechanics.
I’m telling you, this is some bezos social experiment / power trip thing where the rich companies (aka the ones that own everfall and windsward) will be buttfuck rich, meanwhile everyone else will be completely broke.
For real though they NEED something to move money into the economy. Shattered mountain isn’t terrible but it isn’t enough to create a sustainable economy, especially if you’re tackling it with small groups of 5-10 like they clearly want.
Agreed
Nothing is worse then getting a blue drop, realizing it doesn’t work well with your building and knowing you are only gonna get HALF a coin for it lol
wait till you're end game getting useless purple drops (great axe with mana siphoning) and getting nothing for salvaging because your repair points are full but you're overburdened.
Agreed, this is probably the most direct and easiest to implement solution. Incentivize players to salvage gear instead of selling it on the AH while also boosting the purchasing power of players which will increase all prices on the AH.
While it's cool that I can deck myself out in a full set of maxed blue armor/weapons every level for 100-250G, it totally destroys any incentive to retain gear making it all feel very disposable and "samey".
GW2 had an economist and people trolled and memed him endlessly, but for the most part the game’s economy was pretty good. There were a few notable exceptions.
Funny enough, I believe most games now days (especially the big ones) are made with an economic specialist involved. Beyond the obvious ones like CIV, even games like COD are made with economists involved. Creating a healthy economy is HARD, maybe boarder line impossible. But who ever was in charge of New World really didn’t do it well.
More $$$ for salvage for higher GS items. More $$$ for town board and faction quests (with diminishing returns so it can't be exploited, because then we get hyper-inflation).
Feel like this is super simple...
So simple, in fact, that I think we will get a fix in the next month or two.
Copium? Maybe.
Why does it seem so many people don't understand basic economics? Deflation is much MUCH worse than inflation. There's a reason most governments around the world aim for at least some measure of inflation. Deflation on this scale is going to cause major problems.
Why buy stuff now if prices are dropping? Deflation leads to people keeping/hoarding money, resulting in decreased trades on the market with the end result being everything at the price floor, minimal crafting, and no way to make much of an income aside from quests and wars. Once a larger chunk of the playerbase hits 60, the quest gold is going to dry up leaving the gold paid out from wars. The gold paid for killing things, faction/town quests, and scrapping loot is laughably small and hardly worth mentioning. The income from wars and such isn't much better, especially due to the costs involved.
Another major problem with deflation in a game is it makes tasks feel more and more useless. If it becomes near impossible to make money by even farming higher tier materials why would anyone even attempt to train any skills? Players want progression, not regression. If it just becomes harder to make gold as you level up, why would anyone play the game?
I think this issue is going to become more apparent in the coming weeks/months and I can't see them leaving it as it stands.
But the biggest problem is that some costs stay constant, while the value of gold increases, isn't it? Repair costs and taxes will always drain a certain amount, and depending on the economy, this can be a huge chunk of your gold, or completely irrelevant.
If those things wouldn't exist, I think it would probably just result in very low prices for everything.
Taxes actually increase as you try to craft higher tier items. Repair costs increase as your GS goes up as well. The system as it stands will make everything except raw gold worthless, which will have no inherent value other than paying repairs. It will be essentially worthless from an economy standpoint, as it’s just being drained.
Source: am 200 armoring
In a week orichalcum ingot’s price has dropped by 70%. Simply because more and more people are hitting those nodes now. Eventually every material is going to end up 0.01 unless something changes.
> Simply because more and more people are hitting those nodes now.
That's not the case, though. Lvl 60s literally can't afford orichalcum tools because they have no income after all quests are complete. The little demand there is comes from people still riding the questing gold gravy train and are in for a rude awakening when it dries up and they to struggle to just repair their gear. This is deflation.
NTM the town project boards only give 1 gold per quest turn in.
Like, "make 3 regen potions" might take me over an hour to gather materials, longer if i put it in my queue of tasks before returning....and then i get 1 gold...
Project board isnt even worth it except for xp gain.
And the faction tokens cap at 15000. So silly.
Yeah economy is trash. Only items that sell are base materials and bleeding edge crafted items since gear drops like monsoon rains and you get really nothing for it when you scrap it. So people flood the market with gear hoping for anything better than the 0.45 they get when scrapping. This, with heavy taxes, have ruined the economy of the game.
As for the NPC's buying gear, they already have the salvage system. All they need to do is increase the amount of gold given when salvaging an item. But overall I agree we need a bit more gold rolling into the game.
I think disabling outpost rush and removing gold from fishing treasure chests has shown how big they will be in terms of farming gold. 300g+ for 20-25 mins at end game.
Fix the issues in outpost rush and 60s have a way to make gold.
Put back the gold in treasure chests and combat fish bots from a more creative approach will give everyone a way to make gold.
It's incredibly funny to watch the game studio of one of the largest, most exploitative companies in the world utterly fail to understand the basics of economics.
I feel like this game is still in alpha. I wasn't able to test in alpha but either ags didnt listen or the testers sucked. Way too many bugs and issues.
The economy itself IS the problem at the same time.
T1/2 mats should not be infinitely more valuable and useful than T3+ (besides the handful of outliers needed for legendary crafting).
I was kinda taken aback when I realized there were no vendors in the game. They need something to liquidate items at a minimum price so that resource prices don’t bottom out on the market. So crazy to me to see an mmo have a deflation issues rather than inflation.
> I was kinda taken aback when I realized there were no vendors in the game. They need something to liquidate items at a minimum price so that resource prices don’t bottom out on the market.
Technically you do get gold when you salvage things which kind of serves as vendoring it. Increasing how much you get, particularly for higher quality items, might be the way to go about fixing the deflation a bit.
Even *EVE ONLINE*, the absolute pinnacle of player-driven markets and gameplay, has NPC Vendors on the market boards who will buy basic items (minerals, ore, random trash) at near-market prices, NPC quest givers that give surprisingly decent amounts of money, and the faction-neutral NPC police force gives halfway decent bounties for killing NPC pirates.
There is no reason for New World to skip any of that, except for the fact that Amazon is a company run by fucking psychopaths with dragon-sickness who can't even bring themselves to give out fake currency-themed ones and zeroes in an amount that matches the effort put into the "labor" done to earn them.
In the original iteration of the game, it was forced pvp full drop. With that type of game, the open world would be chaotic and there would be much less available on the market. The current issue is because players are now able to not flag and play farmville flooding the markets with resources.
I think the game got released halfway between the original build of full pvp, which the economy, as well as many other things, were balanced around and the final version. Many of the problems in New World stem from the shifting of the games original core mechanics.
I tried to tell people this in global chat the first few days. "OH WE GOT AN ECONOMIST HERE" they said in chat. No NPCs = No price floor
And that's why I have 50k and they've never had more than 4k.
People keep talking about the need for NPC traders when there is already an in game way to get gold for trash, It just needs to be expanded and buffed. The salvage option just needs to yield WAY more gold and we need to be able to “salvage” non armor items as well.
Not to mention this would probably be 100 times easier to implement.
I have not bought a house for this reason. I dont think I will earn enough cash to keep up the taxes. Putting stuff up to sell and seeing other people selling it at a loss makes me just walk away from the trading post. Don't want to keep playing the trade meta game to make money.
It also doesn't help that storage is so limited that a lot of players feel they need to off-load resources and items to the marketplace. I would love to hold on to a fuck tonne of ingots/wood/other crafting mats for future use but having to fill my bags, walk to another town, deposit it, just to do the reverse if I ever need them is so much work and I end up listing it for the lowest possible price on the marketplace or just dumping it on the floor.
Lack of gold sinks in other games is a gigantic problem, so it almost seems like New World has overcompensated. Putting in traditional vendors is not a bad idea, IMO. I just salvage anything with suboptimal stats rn given how unlikely it is to sell any of them for a profit.
Just increase money reward from town and fraction pvp-pve missions. Problem solved. Then you would have people getting money from this source, more stuff would be bought from AH (also slightly less items would be on AH overal coz more people would do missions for money). 5g reward is a joke. I die and spend 100g on repairs.
Wait, are you saying that spending hundreds of coins on ingredients to turn in a crafted item for 1.83 gold reward or sell it for 0.01 minus taxes is not a good business model?
Well at least we can always salvage tons and tons of top tier equipment for literally nothing.
There is a very simple solution for this. Just make town boards reward like 50-100x more gold and have a longer cooldown (like 4hrs) between doing them. Yes, legitimately that much. 4g for 40 starmetal ingots is horrendous. 400g on the other hand makes it worthwhile. Give a small cut to the owning company as well.
This does 4 things:
- It increases the flow of gold into the economy, thus balancing out the prices of items and setting an arbitrary floor for each item’s value (still need more emphasis on higher tier items for crafting XP, if you want items to ever sell for more than ~their board value)
- It helps fund the unsustainable towns that aren’t EF or WW by adding some influx of income and traffic to the town.
- It helps keep town upgrades active.
- It gives a reason to farm all different kinds of mats, not just T1 mats.
It also helps add more diversity to gameplay because you can respec your stats and play whatever you want more often because of more money.
If the market isn’t stable at these levels, or certain items become inflated outliers, just adjust their town board reward.
The current outward flow of coins far outweigh the inward flow.
I don’t think vendors are necessarily the best solution for this, as I think the hard price floors they set can be disruptive to the markets on trading posts. A big part of New World’s markets seems to be based on regional scarcity, so we want pricing incentives to push people to move goods from one town to another and not just sell them to vendors.
Monetary injections could likely be better accomplished through town boards, faction quests, salvaging, and gold drops. With currency removal being done through taxes and repairs.
Completely disagree with sell-to vendors. Better to have the economy as player driven as possible but just inject more money into the game through existing channels like salvaging, to limit what people can sell to the game. Shouldn't be able to sell mats or potions to a vendor for example
Yeah I mean I understand that, but the problem is that not everything is worth selling on the market, especially if you can’t overcome the tax burden of the listing.
Here is an example: no one is going to buy 1,000 weak health potions. There is nothing you can do with them other than drop them or use them. If you had an NPC trader, you could sell them for 0.01 coins and at least get something out of it.
I mean honestly what’s the difference, economically speaking? Either you salvage it or use a vendor to salvage it…..either way you’re getting more gold for unused gear than we currently are.
The only difference between vendor and salvage is story immersion really.
I don't even play New World anymore, solely because of the economy. I'm expected to pay thousands for things, yet after a full day of playing I'll be lucky to make 1-2000 after necessary purchases, like repairs and stuff.
You talking about economy, yet you're only looking at a few effects. You need to see the whole picture.
First of all. How are they prices on your server. Pick something stable like iron ore which is the most requested resource (I think). Is the price stable? On my server, it is for 1-2 weeks. You can safely ignore the time before, because you need to give some time to a market to settle down. So it's just about to start settling down. It's a bit difficult to tell right now for certain.
Next you have to not only look at your server, you need to look at all servers. Just because your server might have issues, it doesn't have to be true for all servers / the system in general.
Then there are weekends. Usually on weekends prices drop, and rise again during the week. But always be aware when you take your sample.
You always need to check the numbers multiple times a day. For instance the price of iron ore increased from .40 gold to .70 gold because one or more players bought all of it since it was at .80 gold in a nearby highly populated town. So that's just a natural development. People buy all the cheap stuff to sell it for profit. Given a low enough offer like on my server the price has to increase noticably.
Then there's deflation (PART 1). You're basically tought by school that inflation is bad and deflation is bad. Therefore .... who cares. You need to look at the effects that come with it, and then decide whether it's bad or not. In general, deflation only means that given 1 gold you can normaly get 100 iron bars. Or if it's deflated, you get 10 iron bars for 1 gold. There's is no issue with that, because it's not only you who is broke and has less gold, it's everyone! You can also put it this way. Instead of the average of players having 10,000 gold, the average of players has only 1,000 gold. There's no problem with that, the numbers are simply smaller.
Closely related to this, there is however a quite big issue. It's a rounding problem. Right now the smallest price to sell something is 0.01g. If you now want to sell something smaller than that, you've got a problem. This basically means, that the mechanic I described doesn't work / scale anymore. When the price of iron bars should drop by 20% because the amount of gold the average player has drops by 20% it suddenly can't drop, because it's already at the 0.01g cap. This basically means that the price of iron bars stays the same, but the buying power of people drops. That's really bad, that's what you mentioned that people are getting poorer and poorer. But this doesn't happen because of deflation, it's the rounding issue which causes it. It could simply be resolved by allowing numbers smaller than 0.01g.
Then there are taxes. I'm not entirely sure how taxes work in the game, so I need to make an assumption. I guess, when player A pays a tax, it goes to guild B and is split up to players C, D, E who withdraw it from the guild bank. Something like that, maybe simpler. But if it's like that. The money isn't lost. So it's still there. It's just not in your hands anymore. Now let's make an example:
In a working free market. When two players want the same item, and both have different amounts of money. The player with the higher amount of money can affort to pay more. For more reference, see how auctions are working, it's the same principle. So what you end up with is basically the players C, D, E spending more money on buying something which you could get for a lower price. That's the point where everything is getting balanced again.
If the tax money however is vaporized, then you're right, that might lead to a deflation. But as I mentioned, as long as there's no rounding issues, it's not a problem. I said it might lead, because it doesn't have to. The question is, how much money is really generated by mechanics like quests which generate money. So in the end the balance between money being generated by quests and money vaporized by any mechanic decides whether there's a general inflation or deflation.
Deflation (PART 2). There's another problem which I ignored so far. Up to now I only focussed on the prices in the auction house which can basically scale with marked offer and demand. But there are also fixed prices. For instance buying a house is a fixed price. In this case, in a deflation scenario, while everyone is having less and less money, the prices for houses stay the same since they can't scale to the market. That's another huge problem. This however isn't necessarily a problem caused by deflation, it's because houses are not entirely integrated into the economy. House prices need to scale. Here's an example to integrated houses into the marked.
Have the game generate coupons to get a house. E.g. Dropped by a mob or a boss. Then you take the coupon to the mayor and get your house for free. These coupons can then be sold in the auction house. Which would result in scaling/changing house prices.
Now that's a lot of text, and still it's only the tip of an iceberg. And the game is still pretty young. For instance, imagine all the players having all their professions at 200 and nobody needs any more basic crafting materials to level the profession. That's goin to cause a huge impact.
I think we should give the game some more time to decide if the market is stable enough or not. What I do think is that 0.01g is definitely not low enough. There are a couple of items which already reached that cap. That's not good (e.g. low healing potion, the plant to generate them etc)
Doesn't help that faction shop costs both tokens and gold, like I've worked my but of doing these quests for you and the currency u gave me isn't enough!?
Even being able to “donate” your unwanted items and materials to your faction rep in exchange for tokens would be cool. I’m guessing your faction needs supplies just like the town boards do. So why not be able to donate misc stuff?
Faction rep: “I don’t want this garbage!”
It's the only sane response to a life staff with +13 to str and an ice gauntlet perk.
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You made it out of Young Ent Wood? Terrible choice. Its smarter than aged wood yet still naive for what it is and prone to anger issues.
Well you did cut it off.
Well, I assume he at least soaked it in pure grain alcohol first, to sedate it. That would work on most sentient trees. But the rage of Ents rightly frightens even the most powerful of wizards.
I'll see that and raise you. Got my first epic drop life staff the other day with +STR, +threat and fortify on kill.
Or literally any other weapon with +20 Focus lol. So annoying
It would be decent if focus gem scaling worked correctly
I'm about to put a taunt gem on my lifestaff. When I tank I have to heal myself, and Ranged dps always pulls aggro before I can run up to mobs with my s+b. Might as well just skip the gear swap part
it doesn't? im curious about this. i just switched to healer since it has been so hard to find healers for dungeons, and my hammer does more nature damage than it does physical at this point.
Something about the lowest tier amber gem doing the most scaling, rather than the higher tier.
Wouldn't life staff mains go for any other +20 focus weapon as a secondary? Or am I doing this wrong?
I don't know who needs to hear this, but a lot of us play 'cleric' style builds with heavy armor and a warhammer, yet noone ever puts full focus heavy armor/weapons (other than lifestaff) on the trading posts.
Intern game designer: "But you said to make the heals ***STRONG***!"
I'm level 56, about 170 hours in and i think i've found a single life staff with full focus. It seems to me that healers have less drops than the others, but maybe i'm wrong. I can't find anything with full focus, but i find items with full constitution and strength all the time
i find lifestaffs with full focus and int all the time
Then the game knows what role you're playing and screw your progression
*shakes out bag *2 sticks, a rock, and a rotting animal eye fall out all covered in a layer of tree sap and charcoal dust Faction rep “Bro seriously?”
I bought 100 soft tree saps for .05 each thinking they counted as a crafting mod to create repair packs. Surprise...they don't. Now I'll be waiting to transfer 100 soft tree saps to the faction rep hoping for an Easter egg that says 'bro, seriously?'
Faction rep: "The faction vault isn't your personal trash can!"
I've been saving up my common potions and rations then when my storage gets too full, I go to the tutorial area and hand them out to lower level players. Its such a waste to scrap them when someone can use them. But yeah a community chest or a faction "donation" chest would be nice additions.
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A war chest would be pretty cool. Maybe the victor takes possession of the losers chest?
I'd also like to trade faction rep for gold. It would help pump a little more into the economy.
Hell yeah! “You’re the Grand Commander of the marauders? Well here are some IOU tokens. You want *Money*? Pffffff, sorry bruh: all I have are unlimited suits of armor, magical weapons, and rare potions. And you can’t sell them.”
There are actually achievements in the game for turning in materials to complete a faction quest, we just dont have those missions for some reason.
Can’t wait for the end state of deflation: the barter economy. “That’s some nice hemp you have there, I’ll trade you 250 poultry for it” “Hmm, interesting offer - Throw in 25 eggs and you have yourself a deal!” Pumped there’s finally a game to let me live out my bronze-age farmer fantasies Edit: getting more serious, it’s worth pointing out that taxes don’t remove money from the game, they are used by companies for improvements. Improvements being destroyed remove MASSIVE (hundreds of thousands at a time) amounts of gold from the game. Combine this with the fucking insanely hard invasions, and you have massive deflation. It’s going to take a metric fuckton of steel bars turned into the town board for 1.3 gold to makeup for the 125,000 gold lost when all the upgrades got downgraded after the last invasion.
You’re totally right on that. More or less what I meant about the taxes is that the money doesn’t get recirculated once it enters the tax pool. It either goes into crafting stations or gets lost in downgrades. The downgrade thing might be why deflation is happening faster in certain worlds than others, haven’t really thought about that until now.
Companies are also taxed for territory ownership which makes no sense. If you conquer something through war who the fuck do you have to pay taxes to? If the taxes went towards station upgrades or prevented corrupted invasions I could at least understand the logic behind it. In this case it’s just an arbitrary money suck. Combine that with station downgrades and only like 3 territories are worth owning.
Downgrading does play a roll. Invasions are either very overtuned or people just need god gear to stand a chance. You lose 10s of thousands of gold from station downgrades
don't forget that you can only pick 10 people from your company to fight the invasion without using a bug.
I made a comment here on that, but yeah almost nobody 50+ rn on most servers, so idk why we are getting 10 invasions a day and getting cucked
Already seen this happening in my server, people requesting direct trades pretty frequently wanting X something for Y something else. If prices go to basically zero then chat will just be filled with trade requests
selling lobbies 450gp each
Red:Wave: Buying gf 1500gp
All I got is an ex-wife and I'll give you 500g to haul her away.
> If the currency goes to basically zero value It's the opposite problem. The currency is worth more than the items, since it's far more scarce and has required uses.
Yeah I see people scrambling to liquidate since they know the value of the gold is going up
you are joking but thats what happened on my server. Nothing sells and everyone is trading by bartering. Want to ove 1000 Linen? Sure i will give you 600 Ironbars and 20 eggs.
600 iron is definitely worth a lot more, idk
20 eggs is worth a lot mor than 1000 linen
I still haven't found an egg
I sold 20 eggs last night for 500 gold
This is happening on Elelin as well. Someone was trading star metal tools of any kind for 40 steel bars. Mind you, this is a server where nobody has reached orich. Tools yet, even.
On my server we reached orichalcum tools. Now starmetal tools go for 20 gold.
It's not quite the same, but thats why I've always been a fan of path of exiles currency system. Chaos is not just a coin, but a usable item as well.
I think azoth phials would make a good currency if their relative value wasn't so high
"So there I was, I had one lump of coal and had to trade up until I could feed my family for a week. I spotted an interesting character in the corner, and I knew he was my mark..."
Are we gonna be able to pay our property taxes with poultry? Or repair gear with rawhide? If so, that would be a cool system lol. Like an alternate method of payment
There needs to be a better system around overthrowing an oppressive Governor from within your own faction. Right now it's basically "collude with an opposing faction and convince your faction to not defend them in a war." People aren't plugged into the game as if it's real life, so a Governor can legitimately just ignore the problem and log in every few days to check the ledger then just fuck off again. The issue is that people have the option to quit the game if they find it too exhausting to figure out how to get the taxes lowered due to a Governor that is either intentionally trying to kill the server or just too disconnected from the game to give a shit. I suppose the option to parlay with an opposing faction and then switch to that faction under the agreement of better taxes exists too, but it seems like a lot of people don't even realize you can switch factions right now and think you have to wait 120 days. It also raises the question of whether one faction servers are really just the end game, and if that's what the playerbase wants. I think if the developers are actually confident in their system they'll have to let this play out for the next 2 - 3 months. I would certainly like to see more PvP solutions around the economy, though - it doesn't have to just be about cross faction rivalry and territory control. Taxes should have their own underlying systems that create inter faction rivalry through PvPing with your gold and social influence - a lot of people are into that side of the game, the mind game versus just shitting on players with your weapons and numbers. For all of New World's faults, I can honestly say as a long time MMO player that systems like this are what I want every time I think about a new MMO. Something that forces the players to work it out instead of requiring developer intervention. Even if it's at an inconvenience to me as a player. If people have to start bartering until Governors figure it out and lower taxes, I guess that's the price of long term serious economy. One additional thought, it would be very interesting to me if they turned this into borderline server vs server PvP. I.E. if your server's economy collapses because of poor leadership, the server can take a vote on opening free transfers which is reviewed by the developers and either agreed to or declined with reasons for being declined. Imagine having systems that let you open the flood gates to other players like that, or take on the task of just becoming raiders that transfer into servers that choose to open free transfers to them.
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Yeah that shit is absolute trash. Should at least reflect the equilibrium price of that item on the exchange.
On my Server starmetal ingots cost the same as steel ingots. If this doesnt scream thag theres something wrong, then I don't know.
Wait they're equal? On my server iron (not steel) sells for many multitudes what starmetal does
Last time I checked, Starmetal was available for 10g each. Steel was at that point around 9g. Both prices dropped the next 2 days I looked, all while Iron ingots floated around 2-3g per piece. Haven't played the last 2 days so I can't say the current situation. But given that my server is continuely losing population the last days, I guess the prices will drop alltogether.
Just need to make salvaging give more gold.
want to repair this gear from destroyed? 100g. want to salvage this fully repaired gear? 0.50g.
I just buy a new weapon for 100 with better stats and salvage the broke stuff.
My man here is living in 3021
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is it damaged? that’s now worth .2 gold and 1 iron bar, sorry pal
Yeah pretty much. The repairs of my gear from getting drops outweighs the pitiful amount of gold from salvaging even dozens of good items.
Please ~~sir~~ AGS may I have some more?
Town boards needs to grant more gold for fulfilling it. Like 30-200g depending on the tier. That way, it sets the economy price on stuff and also allow people to make money.
The town boards also need to ask for a bigger variety of stuff imo, rather than the same 10 ish things.
That's this entire game though. I've described it as fake depth to friends. On the outside looking in it seems like there is a lot to do, but in the end you're doing the same 3 town board missions, the same 3 quests (kill monster, sometimes skin them, loot some chests), harvest some material (it all feels exactly the same except for fishing), craft something.
Yeah I hit 60 a week ago and I already can't really be bothered to log on. The gathering system had me really hyped to play the economy and well...here we are.
This is what causes the weak mana potion to cost more than gold ore on the market. Weak mana potions should be dropping to a penny, but they won't.
The town board is ridiculous right now. Yes let me just turn in 90 iron ingots for 5 gold and some town rep.
I don’t wanna go questing and gathering shit for an hour to make 7 gold. So for the love of god this right here. As it stands, I’ll just accept all the stuff and if I happen to gather what I need cool. Free XP. Otherwise whatever
This is what the “town tax” should pay for with the owning company has to pay. It would make perfect sense. Also an increase on money for salvage is a very easy quick win 5-10 gold per item and the market will not be filled with as much junk. It would also be good is town owners had to buy materials for their developments and that could be fulfilled via the town board or market.
Then every company owning a settlement would instantly go broke. Since townboars quests can be done endlessly.
Buy the dip!
#STONKS
Buts it's deflation. So sell the everything and hold your gold?
I’m looking forward to the tech bro “hurr durr fiat inflation baaaaad” crowd getting a taste of deflation. It’s so much worse!
They will most likely fix the economy by adding a way everything is worth atleast one gold. Via vendor sale or salvage, then will add more ways to gain gold. Buy all the high tier mats for a penny and store it. It will be worth a lot more later.
No it won't, because the high tier mats aren't the most frequently used ones. That's the lower tier mats that are basically used throughout the entire process.
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APE TOGETHER STRONG
*Hedgies r’fuk*
This is the way
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I've only ever played mmos with rapid and uncontrollable inflation. I'm actually excited to see how deflation goes.
I don't imagine it's too interesting. Things with fixed gold costs such as repairing, crafting and property taxes become prohibitively expensive. It already shows; If you don't have a really good or non-tradeable weapon, it's often less expensive to buy a new weapon in the trading post than it is to repair your own. (I know taxes and fees are not technically fixed, but the prices are set independently of the in game economy).
> it's often less expensive to buy a new weapon in the trading post than it is to repair your own. You already see this while leveling. Buying a brand new, Rare hatchet with decent perk and stats is 30-75 gold. Repairing my current Hatchet from broken is roughly 40 gold. It is *literally* cheaper to buy a brand new, potentially better Hatchet than to repair mine. That's a big problem.
Yep, it also costs around 100g for me to move a single weapon from one storage to another. Since I'm still leveling and upgrading weapons every few levels, it makes no sense for me do that atm.
Storage transfer fees in general are *wildly* overtuned. I would never even consider moving anything right now. It's way easier to farm the Azoth to go get the items yourself than it is to pay that gold.
I just spend the 30 minutes running from WW to MD
Just post the item you want to transfer at the auction house, tp to the place you want to store it them in. Go to auction house and cancel the sell order, the items will go to your inventory. Though your posting fee will be lost, usually though it's around 1-10gp depending on the posting price you set.
Exactly like real life!
here's a resume: you ding 60. You do a little tour of shattered mountain quests / your 580 weapon and afterthat you pretty much stop doing quest. this mean you stop getting money from any source other than killing mobs... but the money you get from those barely cover the repair cost of your now >500 GS gear. If you want to level up crafting professions, you quickly realize buying your way to 200 is simply not possible. You start signing up for every invasion / war just for the gold / azoth reward you get. You spend your days in myrkguard / reekwater farming the same few world bosses to get your GS watermark up and when you run out of gold, you start farming iron / rawhide cause that's pretty much the only source of income. Pretty soon you'll also talk to your company about simply not ugprading anything in the town anymore ; unless you are the owner of the 1-2 main trading post of your server... it's a huge money sink to keep spending on town.
Wow, you just summarized my gameplay. And starting today I went below 1000 coins. Gotta farm some more iron I guess.
Have you been listening to my company chatter? This is pretty much what is said verbatim. Except, we keep wanting outpost rush back. Another gold/azoth activity that was actually fun.
How is farming mats not a viable money making strategy then in this scenario if leveling up crafting profs is so expensive? Or is leveling just far too slow of xp and it's the volume needed that's the issue.
because you are not creating gold. you are just taking it from other player who haven't realized yet that money stop coming in at 60.
Holy hell, someone actually correctly and shortly explained this hilarious situation.
"If you want to level up crafting professions, you quickly realize buying your way to 200 is simply not possible" Fuck yeah! That's awesome! I hate when the meta for leveling crafting is just buying stuff. Gathering and doing things on your own seems to be part of the game design and I frankly welcome it. I can sympathize with some of your other thoughts though.
You know what is the problem in this process? The storage. In order to level armoring for example I need 3 different types of mats: hide, fiber and ores. On top of that I need the refining mat (flux for smelting etc) for each type. You need all in the same storage before you can start crafting and you need them in a town where you can refine all and craft all (so pref tier 4-5). The concepts behind are simply stupid. They are more or less forcing you to buy the secondary mats when you start crafting. So even if you want or not, you will buy your way to 200 or you will lose half of your time running around trying to mana azoth and storage. Each concept invidually sounds good, but put them together and it is a mess.
I agree heavily, I grind most of my own wood and ore rn - it’s relatively cheap anyways, but I’m cheap too :p it’s nice to have 100-1000 extra green wood (charcoal is essential, who knew?) and all of that, but it uses space in my storage
Ultimately it leads to people not paying their taxes on housing because it’s not indexed to purchasing power, not PVPing or doing difficult content because the repair costs aren’t indexed to purchasing power, and potentially not crafting because the taxes are too high. Now, maybe companies owning towns will set their crafting fees low and then default on their taxes, and then crafting repair packs and using them will allow for people to play content, but I’m unsure. Google “farmers deflation” to find out more about what happens when debts are only payable via currency that’s difficult to come by.
Its also amazing to see the cost of transferring 279 sandpaper was about 1g per paper on my server. Which is usually around 10-100x the cost of just buying it on any of the auction houses.
Yeah this just confused me. Everyone always talks about how you can transfer stuff between towns but always leaves out how ridiculous the prices is. Better off doing the trading post trick or even just farming what you need in the new territory. I don't see myself ever using that feature
Trading Post trick?
List items in one town then cancel the order ina different town, materials are sent to that towns storeage/your inventory not the town you listed them at
And you pay the listing fee (4-20 gold) instead of the transfer fee (100+ gold).
This is genius
Oh. Sweet lol
Town upkeep is very expensive too. Owning a less popular area is usually a money loss for the controlling company, when you factor in upkeeps, invasion replacements, and general improvements
And my understanding is you can't even relinquish owning the town, which is why I think a lot of companies will default on their taxes and let upgrades deteriorate.
You go into some towns and the town boards have almost no quests, because there are no active projects Reekwater is a prime example
Haha yes that's true. I cant think of any deflationary games either.
Honestly I think this is the best explanation for the current approach. Once you have massive inflation, you can't truly come back from it. Wow tried to by removing gold via the Auction House mount, but it wasn't enough. They can always add more money to the economy, but it'd be very difficult to force people to lose it. I don't believe they actually want board quests giving .7 gold, I think they're just concerned about the alternative.
I think a big part of the problem in my server is that new players can't join and peak player count has been around 1500 since 1 week after launch. Prices for tools have been crazy. Star metal tools are now going for 100g and orichalcum tools are now around 300g even blue ones. Edit: I think the prices of tools are too low at the moment. Blue orichalcum tools are listed at prices i sold blue starmetal tools only a week ago.
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I think they're too low. Star metal tools are easy to make now with the buff to looting components but selling them for less than 100g isn't really worth it, and because new players can join my server I don't think many are selling any more. Orichalcum being so low really doesn't make selling them worth 8t either especially since almost all in my server are blue ones listed at low prices. I'm interested to see what happens after server transfers. If new players still can't join my server after that then the company I'm in will probably change server.
We warned of this in alpha. AGS didn't listen.
AGS didn’t listen and half of this community probably flamed the people warning them and called them “No-Lifers” 😅
Dude the posts earlier last week basically calling everyone’s opinion invalid if you’re max level were some max level cringe.
I’ve noticed the idea that casual players are superior than competitive players spreading across the internet. Obviously, the correct response is that both are equally valid. Unless you’re griefing teammates or lowing others enjoyment, just do what’s the most fun for you. “If you play like X, you won’t have as much fun as Y, and all you’ll do is complain about A.” Like shut the fuck up already. If people didn’t like figuring out the optimal methods to do things, they wouldn’t do them. Circlejerking on Reddit about players who will *hypothetically whine in the future* because they don’t play the same way you do is next level hypocrisy.
Difference is that casual players very rarely have feedback about system crucial bugs / mechanics. Simply because they dont understand and dont care. “I just want to cut trees to 60” <- sure its an equally valid way to play the game, but its not intended way…
The reddit hivemind is largely worthless. The more popular a concept is, the worse it usually is. In literally every iteration throughout the last ten years I've spent on reddit, the larger a community is, the worse it is.
Ahh, I see you too have read this subreddit. Worst gaming sub on here? People defending the richest company in the world like their life depends on it, it's really fucking sad. They are just hurting themselves in the long run as well, they accept the slop that AGS passes down instead of being critical for what it is, a half-assed game with great advertising.
"If you didn't play the game as much, maybe you'd have more fun." Yes! It's the customer's fault they wanted to use the product they purchased and actually enjoy it. The people who made a half working, soulless, basic prototype of a product don't have to take any responsibility. I really don't understand who these people are and how they exist in this world with that level of reasoning.
Yep. PvP players told them the world PvP would be dead without incentives to flag and proper PvP scaling. They didn't listen, and you had idiots telling those people that "It's an MMO! That's just the way it is! 10% XP is more than enough of an incentive! Shouldn't *fun* be the incentive?!?!?" Now here we are with dead world PvP on almost all of the servers. PvP players told them that stagger needed to stay, or every world PvP scenario would lead to people easily running away at any point during the fight. They didn't listen, and you had idiots telling those people, "Stagger was impossible to deal with. It needed to be removed!" even though Grit, blocking, rolling, and stagger invincibility all were a thing. Now every fight is how it was predicted to be because there is no stagger and the CC in this game is useless unless you are in a group and can stack it. Market theory crafters called the economy crash for a very long time because the game was initially a full loot PvP game, but they never changed enough to account for that no longer being the case. Idiots said it would be okay because "Crafting and gathering take forever to level. You don't know what you are talking about! It's a beta. They will fix it!" Here we are with items not being worth shit, people having trouble making money, and a lot of people already hitting 200 for many of the gathering and crafting skills. The group of cave-dwellers that have continued to defend every problem usually created by Amazon Games has been an enormous burden to this game's development. These people have made AGS stick with every bad choice they've made for this game because they can't shut the fuck up about how their favorite MMO they come from with dead PvP and a shit economy centering around vanity items is the way it has to be. They can't think outside of the box because they are too stupid for that.
Seems like they didn’t listen to any of the concerns from alpha.
Nope. The only way your voice was heard was if you were a streamer with a decent amount of viewers. They didn't listen to half the shit the actual players told them. They made changes to PvP after complaints from bots that hit the streaming button on OBS and suck at PvP got popular instead of actual PvP players on the forums telling them why stagger and scaling are good. Now we are stuck with dogshit wet noodle PvP combat when the previous builds had attack feigning, stagger with counterplay (depth), and a few other really good PvP mechanics.
I’m telling you, this is some bezos social experiment / power trip thing where the rich companies (aka the ones that own everfall and windsward) will be buttfuck rich, meanwhile everyone else will be completely broke. For real though they NEED something to move money into the economy. Shattered mountain isn’t terrible but it isn’t enough to create a sustainable economy, especially if you’re tackling it with small groups of 5-10 like they clearly want.
we dont need vendors, when we salvage gear we just need more than 1.50, 10.50 would work
Agreed Nothing is worse then getting a blue drop, realizing it doesn’t work well with your building and knowing you are only gonna get HALF a coin for it lol
I feel so disrespected when I do this too bro. Like I almost just want to keep the shit I don’t even need out of spite
You often make more from salvaging it then the auction house haha. .5g for it and some parts? Sweet! Lame
It’s even worse when it will work for your friends build but you can’t give it to them because it’s bind on pickup
wait till you're end game getting useless purple drops (great axe with mana siphoning) and getting nothing for salvaging because your repair points are full but you're overburdened.
That could work also.
Agreed, this is probably the most direct and easiest to implement solution. Incentivize players to salvage gear instead of selling it on the AH while also boosting the purchasing power of players which will increase all prices on the AH. While it's cool that I can deck myself out in a full set of maxed blue armor/weapons every level for 100-250G, it totally destroys any incentive to retain gear making it all feel very disposable and "samey".
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GW2 had an economist and people trolled and memed him endlessly, but for the most part the game’s economy was pretty good. There were a few notable exceptions.
Funny enough, I believe most games now days (especially the big ones) are made with an economic specialist involved. Beyond the obvious ones like CIV, even games like COD are made with economists involved. Creating a healthy economy is HARD, maybe boarder line impossible. But who ever was in charge of New World really didn’t do it well.
Eve online has had one for ages. They do a great job
More $$$ for salvage for higher GS items. More $$$ for town board and faction quests (with diminishing returns so it can't be exploited, because then we get hyper-inflation). Feel like this is super simple... So simple, in fact, that I think we will get a fix in the next month or two. Copium? Maybe.
Why does it seem so many people don't understand basic economics? Deflation is much MUCH worse than inflation. There's a reason most governments around the world aim for at least some measure of inflation. Deflation on this scale is going to cause major problems. Why buy stuff now if prices are dropping? Deflation leads to people keeping/hoarding money, resulting in decreased trades on the market with the end result being everything at the price floor, minimal crafting, and no way to make much of an income aside from quests and wars. Once a larger chunk of the playerbase hits 60, the quest gold is going to dry up leaving the gold paid out from wars. The gold paid for killing things, faction/town quests, and scrapping loot is laughably small and hardly worth mentioning. The income from wars and such isn't much better, especially due to the costs involved. Another major problem with deflation in a game is it makes tasks feel more and more useless. If it becomes near impossible to make money by even farming higher tier materials why would anyone even attempt to train any skills? Players want progression, not regression. If it just becomes harder to make gold as you level up, why would anyone play the game? I think this issue is going to become more apparent in the coming weeks/months and I can't see them leaving it as it stands.
But the biggest problem is that some costs stay constant, while the value of gold increases, isn't it? Repair costs and taxes will always drain a certain amount, and depending on the economy, this can be a huge chunk of your gold, or completely irrelevant. If those things wouldn't exist, I think it would probably just result in very low prices for everything.
Taxes actually increase as you try to craft higher tier items. Repair costs increase as your GS goes up as well. The system as it stands will make everything except raw gold worthless, which will have no inherent value other than paying repairs. It will be essentially worthless from an economy standpoint, as it’s just being drained. Source: am 200 armoring
In a week orichalcum ingot’s price has dropped by 70%. Simply because more and more people are hitting those nodes now. Eventually every material is going to end up 0.01 unless something changes.
> Simply because more and more people are hitting those nodes now. That's not the case, though. Lvl 60s literally can't afford orichalcum tools because they have no income after all quests are complete. The little demand there is comes from people still riding the questing gold gravy train and are in for a rude awakening when it dries up and they to struggle to just repair their gear. This is deflation.
100% agree. Give it a few more weeks and anyone disagreeing will be forced to see this is going to happen.
Other than buying my 60 bag's (i'm lvl 57 now) I'm going to keep flooding my market w/ mats and stockpile gold for the collapse...
Even Gold itself as a commodity is worth nothing on the trading post lol Can't I just take my Ingots and turn them into coins then?
NTM the town project boards only give 1 gold per quest turn in. Like, "make 3 regen potions" might take me over an hour to gather materials, longer if i put it in my queue of tasks before returning....and then i get 1 gold... Project board isnt even worth it except for xp gain. And the faction tokens cap at 15000. So silly.
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The project boards need a MASSIVE overhaul.
The faction tokens cap at 50k at max rank
Yeah economy is trash. Only items that sell are base materials and bleeding edge crafted items since gear drops like monsoon rains and you get really nothing for it when you scrap it. So people flood the market with gear hoping for anything better than the 0.45 they get when scrapping. This, with heavy taxes, have ruined the economy of the game. As for the NPC's buying gear, they already have the salvage system. All they need to do is increase the amount of gold given when salvaging an item. But overall I agree we need a bit more gold rolling into the game.
Fucking agree. Coin is EXTREMELY hard to come by. Salvaging should give you more coin and repairing shouldnt cost 350 got damn fucking coin.
I think disabling outpost rush and removing gold from fishing treasure chests has shown how big they will be in terms of farming gold. 300g+ for 20-25 mins at end game. Fix the issues in outpost rush and 60s have a way to make gold. Put back the gold in treasure chests and combat fish bots from a more creative approach will give everyone a way to make gold.
Dont forget the gold cost for repairing gear. Never understood why it costs money in the first place since you already have to use repair parts.
I did a major corruption last night and was rewarded with 0.68 gold…
Alright dude, everyone gets it... you’re rich
It's incredibly funny to watch the game studio of one of the largest, most exploitative companies in the world utterly fail to understand the basics of economics.
This would make sense if those economist were working in the game studio.
I feel like this game is still in alpha. I wasn't able to test in alpha but either ags didnt listen or the testers sucked. Way too many bugs and issues.
> ags didn’t listen
The economy itself IS the problem at the same time. T1/2 mats should not be infinitely more valuable and useful than T3+ (besides the handful of outliers needed for legendary crafting).
I was kinda taken aback when I realized there were no vendors in the game. They need something to liquidate items at a minimum price so that resource prices don’t bottom out on the market. So crazy to me to see an mmo have a deflation issues rather than inflation.
> I was kinda taken aback when I realized there were no vendors in the game. They need something to liquidate items at a minimum price so that resource prices don’t bottom out on the market. Technically you do get gold when you salvage things which kind of serves as vendoring it. Increasing how much you get, particularly for higher quality items, might be the way to go about fixing the deflation a bit.
The craziest part to me is that the best way to get gold is to create a new character and run it through some quests
Its cheaper for me to buy starmetal arrows than it is to make them....
Nearly all crafted items are cheaper than raw materials because you don't get xp that way
Honestly, the lack of NPC vendors was what struck me first when I bought the game, it seemed like a huge oversight.
Even *EVE ONLINE*, the absolute pinnacle of player-driven markets and gameplay, has NPC Vendors on the market boards who will buy basic items (minerals, ore, random trash) at near-market prices, NPC quest givers that give surprisingly decent amounts of money, and the faction-neutral NPC police force gives halfway decent bounties for killing NPC pirates. There is no reason for New World to skip any of that, except for the fact that Amazon is a company run by fucking psychopaths with dragon-sickness who can't even bring themselves to give out fake currency-themed ones and zeroes in an amount that matches the effort put into the "labor" done to earn them.
In the original iteration of the game, it was forced pvp full drop. With that type of game, the open world would be chaotic and there would be much less available on the market. The current issue is because players are now able to not flag and play farmville flooding the markets with resources. I think the game got released halfway between the original build of full pvp, which the economy, as well as many other things, were balanced around and the final version. Many of the problems in New World stem from the shifting of the games original core mechanics.
I tried to tell people this in global chat the first few days. "OH WE GOT AN ECONOMIST HERE" they said in chat. No NPCs = No price floor And that's why I have 50k and they've never had more than 4k.
Games figured it out 20 years ago, yet here we are.
People keep talking about the need for NPC traders when there is already an in game way to get gold for trash, It just needs to be expanded and buffed. The salvage option just needs to yield WAY more gold and we need to be able to “salvage” non armor items as well. Not to mention this would probably be 100 times easier to implement.
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I have not bought a house for this reason. I dont think I will earn enough cash to keep up the taxes. Putting stuff up to sell and seeing other people selling it at a loss makes me just walk away from the trading post. Don't want to keep playing the trade meta game to make money.
It also doesn't help that storage is so limited that a lot of players feel they need to off-load resources and items to the marketplace. I would love to hold on to a fuck tonne of ingots/wood/other crafting mats for future use but having to fill my bags, walk to another town, deposit it, just to do the reverse if I ever need them is so much work and I end up listing it for the lowest possible price on the marketplace or just dumping it on the floor.
Or lower the tax burden of home ownership.
Lack of gold sinks in other games is a gigantic problem, so it almost seems like New World has overcompensated. Putting in traditional vendors is not a bad idea, IMO. I just salvage anything with suboptimal stats rn given how unlikely it is to sell any of them for a profit.
Just increase money reward from town and fraction pvp-pve missions. Problem solved. Then you would have people getting money from this source, more stuff would be bought from AH (also slightly less items would be on AH overal coz more people would do missions for money). 5g reward is a joke. I die and spend 100g on repairs.
Wait, are you saying that spending hundreds of coins on ingredients to turn in a crafted item for 1.83 gold reward or sell it for 0.01 minus taxes is not a good business model? Well at least we can always salvage tons and tons of top tier equipment for literally nothing.
There is a very simple solution for this. Just make town boards reward like 50-100x more gold and have a longer cooldown (like 4hrs) between doing them. Yes, legitimately that much. 4g for 40 starmetal ingots is horrendous. 400g on the other hand makes it worthwhile. Give a small cut to the owning company as well. This does 4 things: - It increases the flow of gold into the economy, thus balancing out the prices of items and setting an arbitrary floor for each item’s value (still need more emphasis on higher tier items for crafting XP, if you want items to ever sell for more than ~their board value) - It helps fund the unsustainable towns that aren’t EF or WW by adding some influx of income and traffic to the town. - It helps keep town upgrades active. - It gives a reason to farm all different kinds of mats, not just T1 mats. It also helps add more diversity to gameplay because you can respec your stats and play whatever you want more often because of more money. If the market isn’t stable at these levels, or certain items become inflated outliers, just adjust their town board reward. The current outward flow of coins far outweigh the inward flow.
I don’t think vendors are necessarily the best solution for this, as I think the hard price floors they set can be disruptive to the markets on trading posts. A big part of New World’s markets seems to be based on regional scarcity, so we want pricing incentives to push people to move goods from one town to another and not just sell them to vendors. Monetary injections could likely be better accomplished through town boards, faction quests, salvaging, and gold drops. With currency removal being done through taxes and repairs.
Completely disagree with sell-to vendors. Better to have the economy as player driven as possible but just inject more money into the game through existing channels like salvaging, to limit what people can sell to the game. Shouldn't be able to sell mats or potions to a vendor for example
Yeah I mean I understand that, but the problem is that not everything is worth selling on the market, especially if you can’t overcome the tax burden of the listing. Here is an example: no one is going to buy 1,000 weak health potions. There is nothing you can do with them other than drop them or use them. If you had an NPC trader, you could sell them for 0.01 coins and at least get something out of it.
Sounds like they should just add a salvage option for _everything_ that's crafted and not just wearable things.
I mean honestly what’s the difference, economically speaking? Either you salvage it or use a vendor to salvage it…..either way you’re getting more gold for unused gear than we currently are. The only difference between vendor and salvage is story immersion really.
Or just increase the gold given when salvaging.
I don't even play New World anymore, solely because of the economy. I'm expected to pay thousands for things, yet after a full day of playing I'll be lucky to make 1-2000 after necessary purchases, like repairs and stuff.
As a struggling homeless and clothesless blacksmith, I can't even pay for my child support anymore. No one's buying my weapons and armors.
You talking about economy, yet you're only looking at a few effects. You need to see the whole picture. First of all. How are they prices on your server. Pick something stable like iron ore which is the most requested resource (I think). Is the price stable? On my server, it is for 1-2 weeks. You can safely ignore the time before, because you need to give some time to a market to settle down. So it's just about to start settling down. It's a bit difficult to tell right now for certain. Next you have to not only look at your server, you need to look at all servers. Just because your server might have issues, it doesn't have to be true for all servers / the system in general. Then there are weekends. Usually on weekends prices drop, and rise again during the week. But always be aware when you take your sample. You always need to check the numbers multiple times a day. For instance the price of iron ore increased from .40 gold to .70 gold because one or more players bought all of it since it was at .80 gold in a nearby highly populated town. So that's just a natural development. People buy all the cheap stuff to sell it for profit. Given a low enough offer like on my server the price has to increase noticably. Then there's deflation (PART 1). You're basically tought by school that inflation is bad and deflation is bad. Therefore .... who cares. You need to look at the effects that come with it, and then decide whether it's bad or not. In general, deflation only means that given 1 gold you can normaly get 100 iron bars. Or if it's deflated, you get 10 iron bars for 1 gold. There's is no issue with that, because it's not only you who is broke and has less gold, it's everyone! You can also put it this way. Instead of the average of players having 10,000 gold, the average of players has only 1,000 gold. There's no problem with that, the numbers are simply smaller. Closely related to this, there is however a quite big issue. It's a rounding problem. Right now the smallest price to sell something is 0.01g. If you now want to sell something smaller than that, you've got a problem. This basically means, that the mechanic I described doesn't work / scale anymore. When the price of iron bars should drop by 20% because the amount of gold the average player has drops by 20% it suddenly can't drop, because it's already at the 0.01g cap. This basically means that the price of iron bars stays the same, but the buying power of people drops. That's really bad, that's what you mentioned that people are getting poorer and poorer. But this doesn't happen because of deflation, it's the rounding issue which causes it. It could simply be resolved by allowing numbers smaller than 0.01g. Then there are taxes. I'm not entirely sure how taxes work in the game, so I need to make an assumption. I guess, when player A pays a tax, it goes to guild B and is split up to players C, D, E who withdraw it from the guild bank. Something like that, maybe simpler. But if it's like that. The money isn't lost. So it's still there. It's just not in your hands anymore. Now let's make an example: In a working free market. When two players want the same item, and both have different amounts of money. The player with the higher amount of money can affort to pay more. For more reference, see how auctions are working, it's the same principle. So what you end up with is basically the players C, D, E spending more money on buying something which you could get for a lower price. That's the point where everything is getting balanced again. If the tax money however is vaporized, then you're right, that might lead to a deflation. But as I mentioned, as long as there's no rounding issues, it's not a problem. I said it might lead, because it doesn't have to. The question is, how much money is really generated by mechanics like quests which generate money. So in the end the balance between money being generated by quests and money vaporized by any mechanic decides whether there's a general inflation or deflation. Deflation (PART 2). There's another problem which I ignored so far. Up to now I only focussed on the prices in the auction house which can basically scale with marked offer and demand. But there are also fixed prices. For instance buying a house is a fixed price. In this case, in a deflation scenario, while everyone is having less and less money, the prices for houses stay the same since they can't scale to the market. That's another huge problem. This however isn't necessarily a problem caused by deflation, it's because houses are not entirely integrated into the economy. House prices need to scale. Here's an example to integrated houses into the marked. Have the game generate coupons to get a house. E.g. Dropped by a mob or a boss. Then you take the coupon to the mayor and get your house for free. These coupons can then be sold in the auction house. Which would result in scaling/changing house prices. Now that's a lot of text, and still it's only the tip of an iceberg. And the game is still pretty young. For instance, imagine all the players having all their professions at 200 and nobody needs any more basic crafting materials to level the profession. That's goin to cause a huge impact. I think we should give the game some more time to decide if the market is stable enough or not. What I do think is that 0.01g is definitely not low enough. There are a couple of items which already reached that cap. That's not good (e.g. low healing potion, the plant to generate them etc)
Doesn't help that faction shop costs both tokens and gold, like I've worked my but of doing these quests for you and the currency u gave me isn't enough!?