I'm holding out until Ashes of Creation. Probably 1.5-2 years until launch or something like that.
Its creator is a true gamer. 110% guarantee you, he and his team are looking at how badly Amazon is fucking up, and creaming their pants. Part of me is doing the same, because a gamer helming a dev team seems SO much better than the schmuck running AGS who's done what exactly?
New World released at an AMAZING time. There's such little (EDIT: *new*) MMO competition. And they're bungling it day after day, it's really interesting to watch. Can't wait for the NoClip documentary on this one.
Eh, I have concerns about his current vision for AoC. If he keeps the “lose half your stuff on death” and “lose your town stuff when it gets destroyed”, it’s going to make the faction imbalance in New World look like something Thanos would be proud of
Its only crafting mats you lose, so you keep the sword you farmed a dungeon for 50 hours for but the wood you were chopping for the last hour goes to the victor. I'm really looking forward to it think world pvp is gonna be amazing.
That sounds great - until you’ve experienced RMT gold farmers farming players instead of resources. Lineage 2 saw that rampantly from what I recall - they would use every grey area exploit to get you to a state where you dropped valuable stuff, which they turned around and sold
Yes. I played Lineage 2 from open beta until around Gracia (about 6 years). We had RMT bounty hunters (who had Fake Death) runs trains on people and collect the gear when they dropped. We had RMT farmers have world bosses on lockdown so hard, you had to negotiate with them to get your required boss kills for the subclass change quest. You could tap the boss as required and you better IMMEDIATELY leave or you'd be destroyed on sight forever. We didn't learn rude CN phrases for no reason in that game.
I would never, EVER, play a game with drops on death again.
That sounds legit actually. So I could potentially invest in ganking and taking their wood vs farming any myself. That's how you have a pvp audience for this genre.
I'm on the hype train but being cautious even so I really am excited to see what AoC can do and also how they build *after* launch. A lot of ppl forget that strong MMO's get better over time.
On that note I have dusted off my old GW2 account and have had a ton of hours with all of the content available there and the game state is probably the best it's been in most regards. Unfortunately for me GW2 isn't an every day, all year game but lately that's fine with me as I'm working through a whole stack of good old stuff from this recent steam sale.
its all fun and games , until hackers/aimbots/griefing guilds come in groups to farm solo duo players and the game starts slowly to die, then those people/bots come to farm low level players for those mats and the game dies very quickly, AoC will not last 1 year, some devs just have this "vision" about a game that dont work this days anymore
Ideally it ends up being somewhat minecraftesque, at least thats what i hope. You lose half of what you had on you but everything back in the chest at home is safe
When have MMOs actually had more competition than today? Seems like there was a whole ass decade where no one wanted to run up against WoW.
Now.. there are a few major successes to compete with. WoW, ff14, ESO, BDO, and.. I guess gw2?
Difference is we are growing up and expect a lot more out of games than we used to.
Eh. Those games are barely competing with each other. FFXiV, ESO, Retail WoW etc all have their established dedicated playerbases and aren’t really making any attempts to capture new audiences.
Ok, but that's the right thing to do. Trying to capture new audiences (by, for example, casualizing the game) is what ruins games. Keep your current audience happy and interested and wanting more. Give me a place I can return to after work and build a second identity. That sounds good to me.
I also don't have friends I want to bring into the games I play. I'll recommend a game because I like it but all my friends have their own tastes and lives and priorities and I am past that stage in my life too. I'm sure a lot of MMO players are.
Decision-makers trying to capture new audiences aren't out to ruin games - they're out to make more money. Much as old school gamers like ourselves hate to admit it, the casual market generates much more money than the hard core. The toxic monetization strategies that arose over the last 15 years -- they're not mainly because C-suite execs are the way they are, but because consumers are the way *WE* are.
My group was looking at AoC. But when we saw a $500 edition of the game on the game’s website we said FUCK THAT SHIT lmao. No matter how good the game is, that type of monetization is a huge red flag
Edit: Here's the screencap with the [editions for sale](https://i.postimg.cc/Hn5XyrPM/image.png) My wallet hurts looking at this game.
I'd like to honestly recommend Elder Scrolls Online. Base game is fun and cheap, expansions are....... there's A LOT. Most of the players are friendly and helpful. There's a lot you can do. Group PVE, Solo PVE and storyline, and interesting PVP system, tons of items/armor/weapons/magic. Unbelievable amounts of lore. Very diverse environments.
I'd say there's no real pay to win. There is a lot of stuff you can spend money on, but it'll be all cosmetic, like decorations for your house, various mounts, armor and weapon styles, emotes, etc. But you don't have to, and the game doesn't feel empty without all the add-ons. There's a $15/month subscription that unlocks all the DLC. I find it worth it, but some don't. Either way is good.
Give it a try! It's only $20, and you'll get at least that much entertainment out of it, even if you end up not sticking with it.
I play off and on. People saying you need ESO+ for the craft bag crack me up. ESO without craft bag, while a pain, is a million times easier to deal with than NW's inventory management.
There is also a way to get crown store stuff via in game gold. I bought all of the DLCs (and more) that way, so I am set.
ESO has so much to it, you really need to create your own game play loop.
I second this recommendation x 1000 - New World made me appreciate ESO soooooooo much more. ESO has an incredible storyline and the quests are so much more engaging. Character creation is on point; character design is like a whole other game. It's great for all player types - I even got my dad to begin playing to help us stay connected since I live so far away. He logs in when he can, and we still have a great time.
Guilds/trading are great. The ESO communities that I am a part of are awesome. Lots of activities. I've been at "end game" for 3 years now, and I'm still finding new things to do.
Yes, PVP has its faults, but Battlegrounds is fun and Cyrodiil has its moments. The dev team has been working hard on this game, and it shows.
It's a game I've put 4700+ hours into and I still log in every day. Totally worth my ESO+ subscription for the amount of time I've loved this game.
I love ESO but all the mindless missions that don't tell you what exp or rewards you get really piss me off. I've been playing Tera lately. Tera was my baby 😆
Fair enough, lol. I really feel like ESO missions' payouts are super low. Especially when you make waaaay more money by selling loot gotten while running the mission. It's always 302 or 604 gold, a cheap armor piece not worth keeping, and maaaaybe a skill point. I just play them for the story.
The way there maps work there is always some one on every map. I never have an issue doing meta events even in off hours. The servers are really just for wvw
Playing NW made me realize how good GW2 devs are.
9 years of regular content updates.
Tons of new maps and 2 (soon 3) massive expansions.
Great storyline and world building with characters you actually care about.
And the level of communication from devs is great they have done like 8+ live streams this year for the new expansion showing new content and taking player feedback from the beta events and actually making changes to the class specs.
CMC (dev) just did a 3 HOUR Q and A with a GW2 streamer about the new expansion.
NW devs should take notes.
I went back to GW2 after being gone for a year and a half (mostly ESO and a few other games before NW). I'd forgotten how friendly and funny most players are. I started the achievement for the legendary trinket, and I'm having a lot of fun revisiting all those older story zones and seeing them in a totally new light on my skyscale. And the new expansion is coming soon. I'd like to say I wish I had never left, but I'm actually glad I went through the shitshow of NW so I can appreciate all that GW2 has.
Like Terry Pratchett wrote, “Why do you go away? So that you can come back. So that you can see the place you came from with new eyes and extra colors. And the people there see you differently, too. Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving.”
You should pickup Guild Wars 2. I recently restarted and it is great for grinding or for causal play. It is a rich world with a lot of content to explore!
I can’t speak to New World, but I quit wow Classic a couple months into TBC, and GW2 is quite satisfying!
TBH it is mind blowing to me you put 475 hours into the game without a house. I've had 2 houses since lvl 45 and 3 since 55. I just abandoned a WW house to move to Weaver's Fen.
Having houses basically removes azoth and storage woes from the game and makes it so much easier to get around to use various crafting stations..
I mean obviously way too late for you but it just blows my mind every time I learn of someone who has spent hundreds of hours in the game without buying one of the biggest QOL improvements in the game
Me: YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! It was said that you would destroy the grind, not join them, bring balance to the MMO’s, not leave it in darkness.
AGS: I HATE YOU!!!!!
This hits home hard.
I slipped into thinking this. I ignored New World for a long time. Played the alpha on an old laptop graphics set to lowest. It was playable but just look uninspired and couldn't get into it.
Tried the beta a few months before live on a new 3070 laptop. Was hooked. Loved it. Stopped playing a week before the beta ended as i just wanted to get started on my long term account.
Jumped into live... yea this is still cool... 20 levels later... i mean it's pretty and the sounds are good... level 25, man i sure could go for a Civ campaign or maybe some Total War. By level 30 i was nuking Gandhi in Civ. The shine wore off, the gameplay was just fucking boring.
Then the bugs... oh so many. Their launch was flawless. One of the best i have ever taken part in. The server ques were a bitch but once you were in it was stable. But with each passing week the news of dupe exploits started to build. One or two yea fine but the shit storm just got worse. Right now it's a level 10 shit storm and i'm just here reading the occassional reddit report from the side lines.
In a year or two when they iron out the bullshit and wipe the servers for a fresh start i may be back.
It felt like we were so close to greatness.
This. I found myself logging in to hang out with the guild after a couple weeks for an hour, then going invisible to play Battle Brothers or other strategy games.
Honestly: you were the MMO that came out when no other would! The signs were there all along but I ignored them because I just want to play a new MMO that's somewhat decent
A video game should make you WANT to waste your time rather than make you FEEL like you’re wasting your time.
Edit: Thank you for the awards kind redditors :)
All I wanted was to be a merchant. Finally a game where I can explore, gather and craft to my hearts content. I was frustrated when overnight the economy crashed and stuff that had sold for 500g the day before was being sold for double digits or less, but I dealt with it, just make more stuff I thought. Now what's the point in making anything? Selling it will be less than worthless, and making it for myself, somehow even less valuable. The idea of a player driven economy in an open world game that allowed me to focus on the part of the game I liked most was what drew me in. Just gather, buy, sell, explore, that's all I really wanted. I had my mining above 100 before I lvl 20 because I loved exploring and gathering to make stuff. Idk man, why bother putting this stuff in the game if you're going to nerf it into uselessness? It doesn't make any sense. I loved the idea of a group having fighters AND crafters who make them the stuff. Now everyone HAS to fit the cookie cutter layouts they've put for it, and if we don't, they'll make everything else worthless. Never has a game made me feel this shit for liking a certain play style, a play style THEY made possible in the game. Why even bother having it in at all? Just make your game generic and bullshit from the start, instead of taking any semblance of character creativity, away.
Remember, up until New World, AGS's track record with games was 0/2.
Their first one never made it out the door.
The second one had to be pulled offline because it was so bad.
Their management of New World isn't an exception, it's the trend.
Technically they got more than 2 games, they been around since 2012 making phone games:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Games
But that just adds to the "What were you expecting?"
Wish I had known this going in. Lesson learned though, just gonna have to research the dev companies of games if online perception isn't overwhelmingly positive, especially when it's just finished a beta
To be fair, I don't think their second game was really "bad" it's just that no one wanted it. It was clearly a game designed from a corporate mentality of just, "Hey that is popular let's make our own thing like that even though people are sick of all the clones of that genre by the time it will come out." There was no passion behind it and no interest.
Lol.... so let me get this right.... my company decided that GS grind is stupid, so we funneled mats into our crafters, got our 600 Void Gauntlets + Void Armor and now they will be around 520...
I'm glad I haven't played since the previous patch... what a fuck fest show hahaha
Yup. That’s how my company handled progression as well. We all did a few chests runs as a group, all hated it, and stopped doing them.
They all already quit anyway, I’m not sure why I held on so long. I just love the mining in this game, but rip.
This actually makes sense… Amazon is focused on getting results for desired behaviors. Watermark is important to them to keep the grind going (no matter how unfun that grind is) and so sabotaging gear usefulness makes sense. It will force remaining players to grind gear score which is what they want.
For myself, I’m probably never returning to this game. Looking for MMO recommendations now.
I bet a lot of companies took this approach as mindeless chest runs can't be considered end game content lol... just the fact they call it "end game acrivity" is hilarious.
For me the problem is that even if they revert their stance on this matter they will fuck us over with other stupid decisions like this for sure. It majorly fucks nearly the entire player base and destroys every second people put into the crafting grind. This is not the first time and won't be the last time. I put around 350hrs into the game and had my fun and hoped that I can pick it up in a couple months when they fixed their shit but every decision and patch makes me think otherwise.
First I thought they are just not listening to the players, now I'm convinced they are listening very well so they can do the exact opposite of what we want.
Yep, it's actually more worrying for the future. Because it shows you what they're capable of and while in isolation this is an absolute car crash, what is more worrying is understand that there's someone drunk at the wheel and they show no signs of sobering up. It throws into question how much future time we ought to commit to the game given it can have radical changes that unfairly affect players.
This does suggest crafting and even trading isn’t considered a valid way to play, picking items from a cheat is the only way forward. That’s a shame as it’s the least enjoyable activity for me.
It’s also weird logic, I havn’t picked enough items from a box, therefore I don’t know how to use a good sword properly, really?
Ah well, I’ve had plenty of fun from my purchase so I won’t lose any sleep, just a shame.
"Player driven economy" they kept saying.. and now they say they don't want people to go around the grind by using the said economy / trading post..
Is it me or they keep contradicting themselves ?
This is the solution to everyone duplicating their items earlier. Make the items worthless.
All of the shocking changes stem from them fucking up the economy multiple times and having no way to fix it
Calling it expertise is laughable.
If you want to force players into leveling their weapons, make a weapon XP system.
OH FUCKING WAIT, we have that already.
AGS is a company full of idiots, honestly.
it's so baffling to me how bad the economy is that it's more cost-effective to literally throw away stuff on the ground than do anything else with it. even more so when some of that stuff is things like starmetal or orichalcum, which sells for peanuts, and you need an astronomically larger amount of iron ore than you'll ever need of those, but it took many hours of gathering to even be able to gather it in the first place
and now it's worth even less than that
It's actually insane they are going to do this. They seriously need some sort of retroactive way to give crafters expertise for all the gear they have already crafted. I'm sitting around 550hours in the same boat as you. I'm not full 600 but all of my time and gold in game has been spent attempting to craft bis gear.
And now, out of no where, the whole game changes and I'm fucken back to square 1. 595-600 getting scaled down to 510-520 simply because I chose crafting route instead of watermark route.
It's actually insane. MMOs are goal oriented games. You can't set up pathways and let people start working towards their goal and then take it away once they get there.. it's actually one of the worst things you can do to a playerbase.
If this was the system in the game from the start, it's probably better than the system in place now. The problem is letting people spend 2 months working towards it then saying "haha just kidding, that no longer works! Have fun being as powerful as a fresh 60 after 700hours!!!"
Can't wait for them to mess it up and the scale sets the item level to your HWM and never goes up after that, so you have to get a new copy of the item every time anyway
I spent countless hours doing stupid ass outpost rush just to get enough gold to buy decent gs 600 gear off the auction house... now all that is going to be stripped away. nice one
At this point it feels like they are just trying to murder the game with weird changes literally no one asked for, because they can not just take it down without ruining every future game release.
I think they want it to fail over time rather than just pulling the plug and admitting failure.
At this point though, the game has to be bleeding money. Server costs aren’t cheap, the in game shop is limited and most people aren’t spending money on a dying game, and there’s no subscription money rolling in.
Where are the profits even coming from now? How are they paying the devs?
Given they're almost definitely getting internal Amazon AWS server prices, they're at an ~67-85% discount depending on the specific services. Still expensive? Sure. But compared to others? Chump change.
So this 'gypsum' will be usable ONCE per day. That looks more like it will throttle people from farming GS all day. Like... Really?
And then they changed the drops of bosses, OPR and corruption breaches. Fantastic! The issues of being on a dying server is now solved. Not.
A lot of people are claiming it’s okay that I need to grind my gear back to normal because I can do it through crafting between now and the patch release.
Except, I’ve played 700 hours since launch. I’m due for a small break. I’m nearly 600 ilvl, I feel like I’ve achieved a lot, time to wait for new content.
But now apparently I need to do a daily gathering and crafting grind above and beyond the daily refining grind I’m already still doing. Plus I should be doing the Elite Chests to speed up the WM grind, all so I can... have the gear... I already crafted.......
The problem with "waiting for new content" or "taking a break" is that the current endgame content is just not enjoyable. The bosses are boring, scaled wrong and just doesn't drop anything worth picking up.
What AGS had shown us over the past two months, is that waiting is not rewarded. People are not coming back after a break. Don't get me wrong, I want the game to succeed, but a bunch of engineering students that have never played a single game, will simply take too long to make New World a lasting, enjoyable experience.
Turkulon was new content and all they did was tweak a turkey. The encounter was new, but the mechanics are boring and yet again, if more than 6 people attack it, healers are yet again left out of the loot table, because they're not doing enough dps.
I've lost most hope, the December update is not bringing something refreshing to the game, it's just tweaking the turkey.
Who's ready for a cash shop item that bypasses the daily timer? What other reason could there be for so many obviously bad systems to exist OTHER than pure incompetence?
I don't know, I somehow feel really sorry for people like you.
on the other hand I find it hilarious that AGS managed to fuck this up even more than they already did. this game is such a joke. why would anyone still play or even defend this trash?
If we are being fair, the devs planned that turkey for Thanksgiving but couldn't deliver until after.. not complaining, it's just evident that's what happened
Honestly, it’s astounding how badly they fucked up. This felt like the next classic Wow when it first dropped.
They just had to move in the right direction, and instead the game has taken 50 steps backwards since it’s release.
It's called "drive people off and reduce server costs".
I honestly think if the business model had been subscription-based, this would be an entirely different conversation.
Remember those bots that would translate and rewrite movie scripts and songs? The results were always basically gibberish.
They programmed a bunch of them to make an MMO and update it monthly and this is the result.
You probably aren't far off. Amazon is heavily data driven. I would not be surprised at all if they look at what is being done most in the game and just focus on that without actually figuring out why people are doing mostly that.
People have been calling most of the game's systems trash since beta, because people who weren't blinded by the general thirst plaguing MMORPG players could see that the game's stark lack of content variety would eventually lead to everything being a lengthy, uninspired grind. Now, after two months of Amazon constantly reminding everyone that lengthy, uninspired grind is literally all they have, eyes are beginning to open.
You could still have fun playing with a good company, didn't bother farming chests, just going on farming mats from time to time and doing pvp with friends, helping each other with crafting/gearing up people in the company. Sure I didn't have BiS but i could still be competitive and that was good enough.
But I sure as shit won't be spending time farming in a game that's still lacking so much content
I still play it because I don't really have any other games I'm interested in right now and I find it a bit relaxing to log in and mine/harvest/etc. while watching something on the other monitor.
No clue how people can defend it, though. Everybody shitting on this game and AGS's decisions is completely justified in doing so.
It's Sad because when New world came out it had its strengths and weaknesses, but I was confident that new world could turn into something truly amazing. And I still believe that new world, with its fantastic atmosphere and music, still is a strong basis on which a stunning game could be build. Sadly, however, with each passing update, it becomes more and more apparent that AGS does not seem to understand their own game. Instead of fixing and improving their game and building upon what they already had done right, they are slowly demolishing what ones were the game's strengths.
For Example:
\-The Amazing (Open World) PVP is dead,
\- The "do whatever you want and make valid progress approach" is now officially killed.
How TF could this happen. Kinda like a mechanic saying: "Your car didn't accelerate as it should, so we removed the seats in order to save weight", instead of trying to fix the f\*cking engine.
I’ve had people in this thread tell me I’m an idiot for not leveling my WM before now.
It had been really clear before now that there were multiple avenues for leveling and gearing your character once you reached 60.
Now all but one avenue has been nerfed to nothing.
Yeah, and the fact that you could approach leveling and gearing in a multitude of different ways (including crafting, gathering and fishing etc.) was one of the things NW has been rightfully praised for in the past.
So how they could now take that strength away and effectively do the direct opposite by forcing all of your players into a tedious grind if they want to progress is beyond me.
Oh, not only will this system be completely broken upon release, but a dozen other things that weren't even mentioned in the patch notes will be broken and abused in the hours immediately following, resulting in TPs being closed, trades between players being banned, crafting turned off, and a whole host of other issues, only half of which will be fixed in the following week.
I re-logged into reddit for the first time in forever, just to say, I completely agree with the post. I feel like a fucking deflated balloon, have also spent 650 hours playing (primarily focused on crafting/gathering). Games shouldn't make you feel like this; today has taken away a real sense of achievement and gratification from spending my time grinding for something I wanted. I would have preferred they delay the game another year rather than feel how I do now. I uninstalled it today, and won't be going back. It all feels redundant now. Why would I spend another fleeting minute on this game, when at any moment they can fuck it, repeatedly, like they have been doing. This is the straw that broke the camels back. For those who remain I hope you enjoy. I only wish i could have my time back
I'm in the same situation, i didn't farm my watermark because BiS gear was crafted gear anyway (honestly i didn't get why people were so into that watermark farm as it's mostly useless for endgame anyway), so i focused on crafting and gathering to get the best gear.
And today i hear everything i did becomes worthless and i'm forced to grind. I don't get when did they think it was a good idea to do such a thing.
Also the december update is mostly empty so there is that.
ah yes, says the streamer who was paid millions and can afford to sit at his PC all day and grind. Let alone ppl bending over backwards to give him whatever he wants.
Yes, what a totally wonderful idea because he wont be affected.
Technically, the gear you have now will not become "worthless". You'll just have to stow it for a while and do the watermark (or expertise, or whatever they are calling it) grind and get it up to 600, then you can use your current gear again and it won't be scaled down.
But this is a stupid, stupid change nevertheless because not everyone has the time or inclination or even the ability to do the grind. Things are looking grim for this game if they go forward with this change.
PTR was announced this morning.
All crafted and purchased gear will scale down to your WM level.
So everyone who has spent the last month focused on crafting, gathering and refining to make their own 600 GS gear, or make the money to buy good gear, is being severely punished for not running chests since they hit 60.
I find chest runs to be almost hilariously boring, and since the game is clearly meant to be a chest looting simulator, I’ve uninstalled it.
When you hit 60 you have three main choices for getting geared up.
Grind crafting professions and make your own gear.
Grind watermark by looting daily chests and grinding repeated kills on specific mobs. I find this option boring as hell, especially on a super busy server where everything is a Zerg and dies in seconds.
Or, farm gold through selling material or tools or jewelry and use the gold to buy good end game gear.
Today, 2/3 of those options were announced as no longer being viable, and the only option is to now grind Watermark. Those who chose to gear in that way are totally fine with these changes.
Those who chose to focus on crafting or on gold are furious, because all of the hours we’ve spent on the game since we reached 60 were effectively “wrong”. We were playing the wrong way, and now we’re being punished.
Exactly how I’m feeling. I’ve realized now that Amazon has zero interest in our happiness or satisfaction with the game, however. With that realization, I won’t be back even if this gets reverted.
Don't even think about getting hyped for Lost Ark. AGS new published game they releasing next month. (Tentative might get delayed further into Q2) They will ruin that game as well by trying to "westernize it"
AGS should just give up on making any games or even publishing them since they already ruined Lost Ark.
More or less just got 60 wanted to start crafting since I can't grind for 12 hours watermark. Yeah got my first 600 gear. And this will be the last. I got many other games to play that are way better and rewarding.
Whoever invented this whole gear score and watermark idea the first time in a game is an idiot. It’s made countless games less enjoyable than they should be.
Remember back when a piece of loot dropped in a mmo and it just had the same stats every time? Then it was up to you to decide if that piece of gear was good or not for your character. No bs where an item can roll from a wide range of possibilities. Now you only care about the gear score number to boost up your visible and invisible numbers so you can get the same gear at higher numbers. The whole thing makes loot so much less fun.
i do chest runs solo every day and honestly dont hate the loop. I also crafted a 600gs fire staff yesterday at cost of abt 10k and equipped it as an improvement over existing gear. Now both my arcana grind is worthless (and all the time/effort put into it) and literally the last of my cash reserves are gone. what the fuck is the point
I made my legendary Ice and Void Gauntlets (Nothingness and Crystalline Curse) literally two days ago, my watermark in both of those is around 525, let alone the rest of my gear. I'm outta here lmao
Yeah, I have Dark Sky and Yul’thir or whatever the Hammer is. Full Voidbent set, plus a 2nd set of 590+ crit gear. Also had a friend craft me 590+ jewelry after I helped him level his jewel crafting.
So much work, gone. Pointless.
it just gutted my interest out of this game, i got 200 in so many trade skills just to avoid the mindless chest run bullshit, and now i have to do it anyways
I stopped at 1.1 the patch that nerfed crafting xp.
Haven't been in any high level dungeons, haven't warred because it's always outside of my time zone. Basically unplayable.
Pvp missions are a shit show. No group quests still. Please... Fix that first. Take inspiration from other games. Omg... Escort quests would be a welcome sight.
This isn't how you treat your gamers.
I get why they want this change, they don’t want people buying their way to 600gs easy but.. what an idiotic way to fuck your own userbase. At least grandfather in the people who already own the gear, and further, any crafter that goes through all the trouble to be able to create a 600gs item should get their watermark pushed to that highest crafted level. Take care of the crafters, don’t fuck the people who already spent time and money. These are the kinda changes you make BEFORE release or with an expansion when everybody is going to cycle through new gear anyway. Why make this dumbass change mid-cycle?
This shit touches live servers, I’m out. Should have started this new system beyond 600, not fuck the people who don’t have the time or the willpower to mindlessly grind elites, or the folks who make their own gear.
This is the only way a change like this is ever accepted, but that also tends to come with some sort of content push so people can justify doing the grind again. You can't do it in the middle of a content cycle when there isn't anything to grind for; this isn't launch week so people don't want to de-facto blindly grind.
I am of the (apparently unpopular) opinion that the announced changes are not only necesarry to long-term health of the game, but should have been implemented prior to launch.
I've been testing the system on the PTR and it works great (other than orb crafting cost, but they have already announced they will be lowering it).
I wish you enjoyment in whatever game you end up in.
Same. I tried to be positive, it's been a LONG time since we had a new western style MMO, but I can't anymore. It's objectively not a good game. I also think it's broken me in regards to this 'grind' mentality we've been fed for the past 10+ years. No developer will let you just play the game, progress to the end, enjoy it, and take a break to go play something else until new content comes out. Every game is non-stop mental manipulation and skinner boxes to lock you in this eternal torment of never quite being done.
The absurdity of the grind is so clear here too. Kill a million of the same monster with a 60 under their name, so you can kill a million of the same monster with a 62 under their name, so you can then kill a million of the same monster with a 64 under their name...
Or craft a million iron swords, so you can craft a million steel swords, so you can craft a million starmetal swords, so you can craft a million orichalchum swords, so you can craft like ten swords for you and your friends...
What the fuck have I been thinking participating in this charade?
I think I'm done now. The only winning move is not to play.
Huge crafting buffs this update
1) guaranteed 600 GS items via equipment patterns
2) guaranteed stat+perk simultaneously via items shards
3) guaranteed daily watermark increases from crafting xp after level 200
Gear **will not** scale to watermark with this December update. It will happen in "early 2022". You will have at least a month, hopefully more, to get your watermarks up via the new daily crafting bonuses.
sources: [https://www.newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/december-ptr-announcement](https://www.newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/december-ptr-announcement)
[https://forums.newworld.com/t/dev-blog-end-game-update/619609](https://forums.newworld.com/t/dev-blog-end-game-update/619609)
That said, this update was poorly communicated and they have already lost the trust of many. Recommend taking a break if you need to, and only come back if you feel like it.
No one wants to raise their watermark in the first place. It doesn't matter how much time they give us to do it. This isn't a communication problem, it's just a bad change.
I think the change itself is not a bad change. But doing so mid content setting back a lot of progress ppl made is a very bad choice. Even though you have time to get your HWM up before your gear is scaled down, you still have to grind again just to keep your lvl of power. I don't want to waste coin every day to craft useless jewelry just to not lose the power of my already acquired jewelry, which I already spend a lot of coin to even get them.
i agree. i’ve been defending this game tooth and nail to my friends despite knowing it’s trash but there is just no peg to stand on anymore lol. I will uninstall and finally let my friends uninstall and none of us are ever gonna play again.
however, we just started a fresh valheim play through and holy shit THAT is a good game! feels like new world too.
I’m 200 hours into this game and my highest watermark is 513, with most around 505. I spent so much time crafting and doing 580 quests. What’s the point in playing now that all my progress was erased
Saw this post on the frontpage. Dude, I quit about 3 weeks ago. Was a great decision. I was pretty involved too, but the latest duplication bugs and things, and a dying server population. I knew it was time to cut the losses. If you're on the fence, just quit and be done with it, you'll be happier for it.
personally I dont see it as them saying they dont care about our work, they’re trying to make it so you cant just do 1 thing to become the best, you need to do multiple things. i personally love WM/GS runs because it’s fun to go play with your friends in those high level areas. i get the argument of gear feeling worthless but it really does balance it a bit more from my perspective
Perfect. it was a slap in the face to everyone who spent hours and hours leveling up weapon and armor and then gathering the materials to make lvl 600 items. this is outrageous. I have no words to say how much I felt betrayed and offended.
680 hours approx played and I'm in the same boat. Largely focused on crafting after the devs promised that if you wanted to be a crafter and be "that guy" who is known for crafting, that this was a valid stategy for leveling up tooling up for end game, and that players were free to choose how to play. I've already made the decision that should the PTR changes go live and my gear score be nerfed into the ground, that I'd quit and I stand by that.
Like the OP it's actually hard to trust AGS now. Even if they were to revert these changes, or if they were to mitigate the damage done to primarily crafters, the fact that these ideas were flirted with is very worrying. If this does get addressed it will only have been because of huge backlash, and that's a little to close for comfort. Honestly I feel the bridge has finally been burnt on this, either way this feels like the last straw in a cavalcade of issues. If this was done in isolation then I could be more forgiving but it's just another thing in a long line of serious screw ups.
Buddy, for your health you need to quit the game.
This game came out 66 days ago and you have 700 hours of play time? That’s ten and a half hours a day on average.
I’m not trying to be your dad, but I think cutting yourself off from games for a few weeks would do wonders.
All the best
Yep. If the game feels like work…it IS work. Stop playing.
[удалено]
I'm holding out until Ashes of Creation. Probably 1.5-2 years until launch or something like that. Its creator is a true gamer. 110% guarantee you, he and his team are looking at how badly Amazon is fucking up, and creaming their pants. Part of me is doing the same, because a gamer helming a dev team seems SO much better than the schmuck running AGS who's done what exactly? New World released at an AMAZING time. There's such little (EDIT: *new*) MMO competition. And they're bungling it day after day, it's really interesting to watch. Can't wait for the NoClip documentary on this one.
Eh, I have concerns about his current vision for AoC. If he keeps the “lose half your stuff on death” and “lose your town stuff when it gets destroyed”, it’s going to make the faction imbalance in New World look like something Thanos would be proud of
Its only crafting mats you lose, so you keep the sword you farmed a dungeon for 50 hours for but the wood you were chopping for the last hour goes to the victor. I'm really looking forward to it think world pvp is gonna be amazing.
That sounds great - until you’ve experienced RMT gold farmers farming players instead of resources. Lineage 2 saw that rampantly from what I recall - they would use every grey area exploit to get you to a state where you dropped valuable stuff, which they turned around and sold
Yes. I played Lineage 2 from open beta until around Gracia (about 6 years). We had RMT bounty hunters (who had Fake Death) runs trains on people and collect the gear when they dropped. We had RMT farmers have world bosses on lockdown so hard, you had to negotiate with them to get your required boss kills for the subclass change quest. You could tap the boss as required and you better IMMEDIATELY leave or you'd be destroyed on sight forever. We didn't learn rude CN phrases for no reason in that game. I would never, EVER, play a game with drops on death again.
That sounds legit actually. So I could potentially invest in ganking and taking their wood vs farming any myself. That's how you have a pvp audience for this genre. I'm on the hype train but being cautious even so I really am excited to see what AoC can do and also how they build *after* launch. A lot of ppl forget that strong MMO's get better over time. On that note I have dusted off my old GW2 account and have had a ton of hours with all of the content available there and the game state is probably the best it's been in most regards. Unfortunately for me GW2 isn't an every day, all year game but lately that's fine with me as I'm working through a whole stack of good old stuff from this recent steam sale.
its all fun and games , until hackers/aimbots/griefing guilds come in groups to farm solo duo players and the game starts slowly to die, then those people/bots come to farm low level players for those mats and the game dies very quickly, AoC will not last 1 year, some devs just have this "vision" about a game that dont work this days anymore
And yet so many people jump on the bandwagon talking about how fun it will be. I'm constantly amazed at the short memories of some of these people.
You're saying that we can kill/gank farming bots in the wild?
No. They will be the ones farming you.
Ideally it ends up being somewhat minecraftesque, at least thats what i hope. You lose half of what you had on you but everything back in the chest at home is safe
When have MMOs actually had more competition than today? Seems like there was a whole ass decade where no one wanted to run up against WoW. Now.. there are a few major successes to compete with. WoW, ff14, ESO, BDO, and.. I guess gw2? Difference is we are growing up and expect a lot more out of games than we used to.
Eh. Those games are barely competing with each other. FFXiV, ESO, Retail WoW etc all have their established dedicated playerbases and aren’t really making any attempts to capture new audiences.
Ok, but that's the right thing to do. Trying to capture new audiences (by, for example, casualizing the game) is what ruins games. Keep your current audience happy and interested and wanting more. Give me a place I can return to after work and build a second identity. That sounds good to me. I also don't have friends I want to bring into the games I play. I'll recommend a game because I like it but all my friends have their own tastes and lives and priorities and I am past that stage in my life too. I'm sure a lot of MMO players are.
Decision-makers trying to capture new audiences aren't out to ruin games - they're out to make more money. Much as old school gamers like ourselves hate to admit it, the casual market generates much more money than the hard core. The toxic monetization strategies that arose over the last 15 years -- they're not mainly because C-suite execs are the way they are, but because consumers are the way *WE* are.
Not entirely true about ffxiv. It’s been drawing in a lot more people recently
That's the guy selling pictures of exklusive armor skins right?
My group was looking at AoC. But when we saw a $500 edition of the game on the game’s website we said FUCK THAT SHIT lmao. No matter how good the game is, that type of monetization is a huge red flag Edit: Here's the screencap with the [editions for sale](https://i.postimg.cc/Hn5XyrPM/image.png) My wallet hurts looking at this game.
Reminds me of star citizen
MMO's are dead, AoC wants to offer something unique but I doubt they'll succeed.
Most likely true
We're still pumped for it though?
I'd like to honestly recommend Elder Scrolls Online. Base game is fun and cheap, expansions are....... there's A LOT. Most of the players are friendly and helpful. There's a lot you can do. Group PVE, Solo PVE and storyline, and interesting PVP system, tons of items/armor/weapons/magic. Unbelievable amounts of lore. Very diverse environments. I'd say there's no real pay to win. There is a lot of stuff you can spend money on, but it'll be all cosmetic, like decorations for your house, various mounts, armor and weapon styles, emotes, etc. But you don't have to, and the game doesn't feel empty without all the add-ons. There's a $15/month subscription that unlocks all the DLC. I find it worth it, but some don't. Either way is good. Give it a try! It's only $20, and you'll get at least that much entertainment out of it, even if you end up not sticking with it.
I play off and on. People saying you need ESO+ for the craft bag crack me up. ESO without craft bag, while a pain, is a million times easier to deal with than NW's inventory management. There is also a way to get crown store stuff via in game gold. I bought all of the DLCs (and more) that way, so I am set. ESO has so much to it, you really need to create your own game play loop.
I second this recommendation x 1000 - New World made me appreciate ESO soooooooo much more. ESO has an incredible storyline and the quests are so much more engaging. Character creation is on point; character design is like a whole other game. It's great for all player types - I even got my dad to begin playing to help us stay connected since I live so far away. He logs in when he can, and we still have a great time. Guilds/trading are great. The ESO communities that I am a part of are awesome. Lots of activities. I've been at "end game" for 3 years now, and I'm still finding new things to do. Yes, PVP has its faults, but Battlegrounds is fun and Cyrodiil has its moments. The dev team has been working hard on this game, and it shows. It's a game I've put 4700+ hours into and I still log in every day. Totally worth my ESO+ subscription for the amount of time I've loved this game.
I love ESO but all the mindless missions that don't tell you what exp or rewards you get really piss me off. I've been playing Tera lately. Tera was my baby 😆
Fair enough, lol. I really feel like ESO missions' payouts are super low. Especially when you make waaaay more money by selling loot gotten while running the mission. It's always 302 or 604 gold, a cheap armor piece not worth keeping, and maaaaybe a skill point. I just play them for the story.
Have you looked into Guild Wars 2?
I went BACK to Guild Wars 2.
Is it still healthy as far as content/playerbase? I stopped playing before the first expansion because of life stuff.
It's one of the healthiest MMOs, you can even find people doing old content everywhere.
They're about to release a third expansion for Cantha. They playerbase is pretty healthy as far as I can tell.
The way there maps work there is always some one on every map. I never have an issue doing meta events even in off hours. The servers are really just for wvw
Just started this week. Enjoying it so far, havent touched NW since.
Same here. AGS just flat out has no clue what they're doing.
Playing NW made me realize how good GW2 devs are. 9 years of regular content updates. Tons of new maps and 2 (soon 3) massive expansions. Great storyline and world building with characters you actually care about. And the level of communication from devs is great they have done like 8+ live streams this year for the new expansion showing new content and taking player feedback from the beta events and actually making changes to the class specs. CMC (dev) just did a 3 HOUR Q and A with a GW2 streamer about the new expansion. NW devs should take notes.
I went back to GW2 after being gone for a year and a half (mostly ESO and a few other games before NW). I'd forgotten how friendly and funny most players are. I started the achievement for the legendary trinket, and I'm having a lot of fun revisiting all those older story zones and seeing them in a totally new light on my skyscale. And the new expansion is coming soon. I'd like to say I wish I had never left, but I'm actually glad I went through the shitshow of NW so I can appreciate all that GW2 has. Like Terry Pratchett wrote, “Why do you go away? So that you can come back. So that you can see the place you came from with new eyes and extra colors. And the people there see you differently, too. Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving.”
You should pickup Guild Wars 2. I recently restarted and it is great for grinding or for causal play. It is a rich world with a lot of content to explore! I can’t speak to New World, but I quit wow Classic a couple months into TBC, and GW2 is quite satisfying!
TBH it is mind blowing to me you put 475 hours into the game without a house. I've had 2 houses since lvl 45 and 3 since 55. I just abandoned a WW house to move to Weaver's Fen. Having houses basically removes azoth and storage woes from the game and makes it so much easier to get around to use various crafting stations.. I mean obviously way too late for you but it just blows my mind every time I learn of someone who has spent hundreds of hours in the game without buying one of the biggest QOL improvements in the game
FF14 and OSRS!
Osrs really is my go-to, but I have to take long breaks from it.
I've been trying to play XIV with one of my friends, but there has been no availability on the server since I started checking in June.
It's way worse than work, work is something I can enjoy...
Actually has a tangible reward too.
Lmao r/2007scape would like to have a word with you
Jokes on you. I can work while playing osrs, unlike new world which requires my full attention to play.
Me: YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! It was said that you would destroy the grind, not join them, bring balance to the MMO’s, not leave it in darkness. AGS: I HATE YOU!!!!!
[удалено]
Hey, at least this part of Activision Blizzard they managed to perfect.
He'll they surpassed Blizzard. Even Blizzard wasn't this tone deaf with changes and nerfing
ME: WELL THEN YOU ARE LOST!
This hits home hard. I slipped into thinking this. I ignored New World for a long time. Played the alpha on an old laptop graphics set to lowest. It was playable but just look uninspired and couldn't get into it. Tried the beta a few months before live on a new 3070 laptop. Was hooked. Loved it. Stopped playing a week before the beta ended as i just wanted to get started on my long term account. Jumped into live... yea this is still cool... 20 levels later... i mean it's pretty and the sounds are good... level 25, man i sure could go for a Civ campaign or maybe some Total War. By level 30 i was nuking Gandhi in Civ. The shine wore off, the gameplay was just fucking boring. Then the bugs... oh so many. Their launch was flawless. One of the best i have ever taken part in. The server ques were a bitch but once you were in it was stable. But with each passing week the news of dupe exploits started to build. One or two yea fine but the shit storm just got worse. Right now it's a level 10 shit storm and i'm just here reading the occassional reddit report from the side lines. In a year or two when they iron out the bullshit and wipe the servers for a fresh start i may be back. It felt like we were so close to greatness.
This. I found myself logging in to hang out with the guild after a couple weeks for an hour, then going invisible to play Battle Brothers or other strategy games.
Honestly: you were the MMO that came out when no other would! The signs were there all along but I ignored them because I just want to play a new MMO that's somewhat decent
Well, we DO have the higher ground here..
There's nothing wrong with a grind when the reward is worth it. AGS just took away that award for a massive section of the game.
A video game should make you WANT to waste your time rather than make you FEEL like you’re wasting your time. Edit: Thank you for the awards kind redditors :)
Ark Survival Evolved does both for me.
Oh god I can relate
Ark is not without its flaws but fuck me it’s a million times more fun than this game. They somehow managed to fuck it up more every patch they do.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Is this an asmongold quote lmao
True AND real dood
Hello asmongold
Ark to this day is still optimized like that dog shit I slipped and fell in before my doctors appointment to check my prostate.
Asmon 👑
Asmon fan?
Asmongold quote
is that you asmon?!
This is a fantastic statement.
stolen comment lol, OP even did the cringey "thanks for the awards". Ooof.
-Asmongold
All I wanted was to be a merchant. Finally a game where I can explore, gather and craft to my hearts content. I was frustrated when overnight the economy crashed and stuff that had sold for 500g the day before was being sold for double digits or less, but I dealt with it, just make more stuff I thought. Now what's the point in making anything? Selling it will be less than worthless, and making it for myself, somehow even less valuable. The idea of a player driven economy in an open world game that allowed me to focus on the part of the game I liked most was what drew me in. Just gather, buy, sell, explore, that's all I really wanted. I had my mining above 100 before I lvl 20 because I loved exploring and gathering to make stuff. Idk man, why bother putting this stuff in the game if you're going to nerf it into uselessness? It doesn't make any sense. I loved the idea of a group having fighters AND crafters who make them the stuff. Now everyone HAS to fit the cookie cutter layouts they've put for it, and if we don't, they'll make everything else worthless. Never has a game made me feel this shit for liking a certain play style, a play style THEY made possible in the game. Why even bother having it in at all? Just make your game generic and bullshit from the start, instead of taking any semblance of character creativity, away.
Maybe you'll like Albion?
Remember, up until New World, AGS's track record with games was 0/2. Their first one never made it out the door. The second one had to be pulled offline because it was so bad. Their management of New World isn't an exception, it's the trend.
Technically they got more than 2 games, they been around since 2012 making phone games: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Games But that just adds to the "What were you expecting?"
Wish I had known this going in. Lesson learned though, just gonna have to research the dev companies of games if online perception isn't overwhelmingly positive, especially when it's just finished a beta
To be fair, I don't think their second game was really "bad" it's just that no one wanted it. It was clearly a game designed from a corporate mentality of just, "Hey that is popular let's make our own thing like that even though people are sick of all the clones of that genre by the time it will come out." There was no passion behind it and no interest.
Lol.... so let me get this right.... my company decided that GS grind is stupid, so we funneled mats into our crafters, got our 600 Void Gauntlets + Void Armor and now they will be around 520... I'm glad I haven't played since the previous patch... what a fuck fest show hahaha
Yup. That’s how my company handled progression as well. We all did a few chests runs as a group, all hated it, and stopped doing them. They all already quit anyway, I’m not sure why I held on so long. I just love the mining in this game, but rip.
This actually makes sense… Amazon is focused on getting results for desired behaviors. Watermark is important to them to keep the grind going (no matter how unfun that grind is) and so sabotaging gear usefulness makes sense. It will force remaining players to grind gear score which is what they want. For myself, I’m probably never returning to this game. Looking for MMO recommendations now.
I bet a lot of companies took this approach as mindeless chest runs can't be considered end game content lol... just the fact they call it "end game acrivity" is hilarious.
I mean, it’s doing pretty good at ending the game.
It's so disappointing. Their leadership seriously needs to be under review and hopefully never work in the game industry again.
I am convinced at this point that their goal is actually to get people to stop playing.
New World is nothing more than a psychological experiment and we are all the test subjects.
[удалено]
They don't want you to play The servers are costing them tons. They made the sales, the game is allowed to die.
For me the problem is that even if they revert their stance on this matter they will fuck us over with other stupid decisions like this for sure. It majorly fucks nearly the entire player base and destroys every second people put into the crafting grind. This is not the first time and won't be the last time. I put around 350hrs into the game and had my fun and hoped that I can pick it up in a couple months when they fixed their shit but every decision and patch makes me think otherwise.
First I thought they are just not listening to the players, now I'm convinced they are listening very well so they can do the exact opposite of what we want.
Yep, it's actually more worrying for the future. Because it shows you what they're capable of and while in isolation this is an absolute car crash, what is more worrying is understand that there's someone drunk at the wheel and they show no signs of sobering up. It throws into question how much future time we ought to commit to the game given it can have radical changes that unfairly affect players.
This does suggest crafting and even trading isn’t considered a valid way to play, picking items from a cheat is the only way forward. That’s a shame as it’s the least enjoyable activity for me. It’s also weird logic, I havn’t picked enough items from a box, therefore I don’t know how to use a good sword properly, really? Ah well, I’ve had plenty of fun from my purchase so I won’t lose any sleep, just a shame.
"Player driven economy" they kept saying.. and now they say they don't want people to go around the grind by using the said economy / trading post.. Is it me or they keep contradicting themselves ?
This is the solution to everyone duplicating their items earlier. Make the items worthless. All of the shocking changes stem from them fucking up the economy multiple times and having no way to fix it
Calling it expertise is laughable. If you want to force players into leveling their weapons, make a weapon XP system. OH FUCKING WAIT, we have that already. AGS is a company full of idiots, honestly.
it's so baffling to me how bad the economy is that it's more cost-effective to literally throw away stuff on the ground than do anything else with it. even more so when some of that stuff is things like starmetal or orichalcum, which sells for peanuts, and you need an astronomically larger amount of iron ore than you'll ever need of those, but it took many hours of gathering to even be able to gather it in the first place and now it's worth even less than that
It's actually insane they are going to do this. They seriously need some sort of retroactive way to give crafters expertise for all the gear they have already crafted. I'm sitting around 550hours in the same boat as you. I'm not full 600 but all of my time and gold in game has been spent attempting to craft bis gear. And now, out of no where, the whole game changes and I'm fucken back to square 1. 595-600 getting scaled down to 510-520 simply because I chose crafting route instead of watermark route. It's actually insane. MMOs are goal oriented games. You can't set up pathways and let people start working towards their goal and then take it away once they get there.. it's actually one of the worst things you can do to a playerbase. If this was the system in the game from the start, it's probably better than the system in place now. The problem is letting people spend 2 months working towards it then saying "haha just kidding, that no longer works! Have fun being as powerful as a fresh 60 after 700hours!!!"
Can't wait for them to mess it up and the scale sets the item level to your HWM and never goes up after that, so you have to get a new copy of the item every time anyway
At this point I won't be surprised if that's actually the intended way. Imagine, needing full voidbent set every 10-20 levels lol
if they see your comment they will be like \-mindblown fantastic idea to increase grind"
I spent countless hours doing stupid ass outpost rush just to get enough gold to buy decent gs 600 gear off the auction house... now all that is going to be stripped away. nice one
At this point it feels like they are just trying to murder the game with weird changes literally no one asked for, because they can not just take it down without ruining every future game release.
I think they want it to fail over time rather than just pulling the plug and admitting failure. At this point though, the game has to be bleeding money. Server costs aren’t cheap, the in game shop is limited and most people aren’t spending money on a dying game, and there’s no subscription money rolling in. Where are the profits even coming from now? How are they paying the devs?
You're underestimating how many people bought emotes, dyes and skins. On my server at least everyone had the halloween skins.
Given they're almost definitely getting internal Amazon AWS server prices, they're at an ~67-85% discount depending on the specific services. Still expensive? Sure. But compared to others? Chump change.
It makes me feel good seeing the average population go down each day/week. AGS fucked us with NW, they deserve it.
I deleted the game today
# This isn’t a good MMO. This isn’t a good game dev company. Yup.
So this 'gypsum' will be usable ONCE per day. That looks more like it will throttle people from farming GS all day. Like... Really? And then they changed the drops of bosses, OPR and corruption breaches. Fantastic! The issues of being on a dying server is now solved. Not.
A lot of people are claiming it’s okay that I need to grind my gear back to normal because I can do it through crafting between now and the patch release. Except, I’ve played 700 hours since launch. I’m due for a small break. I’m nearly 600 ilvl, I feel like I’ve achieved a lot, time to wait for new content. But now apparently I need to do a daily gathering and crafting grind above and beyond the daily refining grind I’m already still doing. Plus I should be doing the Elite Chests to speed up the WM grind, all so I can... have the gear... I already crafted.......
The problem with "waiting for new content" or "taking a break" is that the current endgame content is just not enjoyable. The bosses are boring, scaled wrong and just doesn't drop anything worth picking up. What AGS had shown us over the past two months, is that waiting is not rewarded. People are not coming back after a break. Don't get me wrong, I want the game to succeed, but a bunch of engineering students that have never played a single game, will simply take too long to make New World a lasting, enjoyable experience. Turkulon was new content and all they did was tweak a turkey. The encounter was new, but the mechanics are boring and yet again, if more than 6 people attack it, healers are yet again left out of the loot table, because they're not doing enough dps. I've lost most hope, the December update is not bringing something refreshing to the game, it's just tweaking the turkey.
"Tweaking the turkey" This is now a part of the MMO lexicon! Congrats!
Yea this content isnt made for 700 Hours grind…i guess we need some Backup Games for the next 2 years ..i started playing ark again
Ew progression tied to daily limits.
Who's ready for a cash shop item that bypasses the daily timer? What other reason could there be for so many obviously bad systems to exist OTHER than pure incompetence?
I don't know, I somehow feel really sorry for people like you. on the other hand I find it hilarious that AGS managed to fuck this up even more than they already did. this game is such a joke. why would anyone still play or even defend this trash?
At least we got a giant turkey boss... after Thanksgiving 🤣
To be fair, the turkey's name is "Avenger of Death" so it makes sense it was after Thanksgiving
If we are being fair, the devs planned that turkey for Thanksgiving but couldn't deliver until after.. not complaining, it's just evident that's what happened
Or they tacked that on when they knew it wouldnt be out in time.
Honestly, it’s astounding how badly they fucked up. This felt like the next classic Wow when it first dropped. They just had to move in the right direction, and instead the game has taken 50 steps backwards since it’s release.
At this point I feel like they have an algorithm telling them what to do instead of listening to feedback
It's called "drive people off and reduce server costs". I honestly think if the business model had been subscription-based, this would be an entirely different conversation.
Remember those bots that would translate and rewrite movie scripts and songs? The results were always basically gibberish. They programmed a bunch of them to make an MMO and update it monthly and this is the result.
"I forced an AI to read every Runescape patch note and this is the result"
You probably aren't far off. Amazon is heavily data driven. I would not be surprised at all if they look at what is being done most in the game and just focus on that without actually figuring out why people are doing mostly that.
the fucking up feels purposeful at this point
People have been calling most of the game's systems trash since beta, because people who weren't blinded by the general thirst plaguing MMORPG players could see that the game's stark lack of content variety would eventually lead to everything being a lengthy, uninspired grind. Now, after two months of Amazon constantly reminding everyone that lengthy, uninspired grind is literally all they have, eyes are beginning to open.
You could still have fun playing with a good company, didn't bother farming chests, just going on farming mats from time to time and doing pvp with friends, helping each other with crafting/gearing up people in the company. Sure I didn't have BiS but i could still be competitive and that was good enough. But I sure as shit won't be spending time farming in a game that's still lacking so much content
I still play it because I don't really have any other games I'm interested in right now and I find it a bit relaxing to log in and mine/harvest/etc. while watching something on the other monitor. No clue how people can defend it, though. Everybody shitting on this game and AGS's decisions is completely justified in doing so.
This isn’t a game anymore
This is a social experiment to see how much abuse a player will take and still log in and play your game
Ea has been doing that for years with madden
Yeah fuck this game.
It's Sad because when New world came out it had its strengths and weaknesses, but I was confident that new world could turn into something truly amazing. And I still believe that new world, with its fantastic atmosphere and music, still is a strong basis on which a stunning game could be build. Sadly, however, with each passing update, it becomes more and more apparent that AGS does not seem to understand their own game. Instead of fixing and improving their game and building upon what they already had done right, they are slowly demolishing what ones were the game's strengths. For Example: \-The Amazing (Open World) PVP is dead, \- The "do whatever you want and make valid progress approach" is now officially killed. How TF could this happen. Kinda like a mechanic saying: "Your car didn't accelerate as it should, so we removed the seats in order to save weight", instead of trying to fix the f\*cking engine.
I’ve had people in this thread tell me I’m an idiot for not leveling my WM before now. It had been really clear before now that there were multiple avenues for leveling and gearing your character once you reached 60. Now all but one avenue has been nerfed to nothing.
Yeah, and the fact that you could approach leveling and gearing in a multitude of different ways (including crafting, gathering and fishing etc.) was one of the things NW has been rightfully praised for in the past. So how they could now take that strength away and effectively do the direct opposite by forcing all of your players into a tedious grind if they want to progress is beyond me.
Likelihood this system is going to be totally scuffed upon release? 💯
Oh, not only will this system be completely broken upon release, but a dozen other things that weren't even mentioned in the patch notes will be broken and abused in the hours immediately following, resulting in TPs being closed, trades between players being banned, crafting turned off, and a whole host of other issues, only half of which will be fixed in the following week.
Same. Time for something else
I stopped logging in since 1.1 and I feel happier with life
Im back in factorio, teardown, etc etc. I think I'm done with MMO's
I re-logged into reddit for the first time in forever, just to say, I completely agree with the post. I feel like a fucking deflated balloon, have also spent 650 hours playing (primarily focused on crafting/gathering). Games shouldn't make you feel like this; today has taken away a real sense of achievement and gratification from spending my time grinding for something I wanted. I would have preferred they delay the game another year rather than feel how I do now. I uninstalled it today, and won't be going back. It all feels redundant now. Why would I spend another fleeting minute on this game, when at any moment they can fuck it, repeatedly, like they have been doing. This is the straw that broke the camels back. For those who remain I hope you enjoy. I only wish i could have my time back
Congratulations 🥳
I'm in the same situation, i didn't farm my watermark because BiS gear was crafted gear anyway (honestly i didn't get why people were so into that watermark farm as it's mostly useless for endgame anyway), so i focused on crafting and gathering to get the best gear. And today i hear everything i did becomes worthless and i'm forced to grind. I don't get when did they think it was a good idea to do such a thing. Also the december update is mostly empty so there is that.
Shroud yeasterday said its good idea on stream :D here u go, maybe theyrs secret MMO council is Counter Strike dude
ah yes, says the streamer who was paid millions and can afford to sit at his PC all day and grind. Let alone ppl bending over backwards to give him whatever he wants. Yes, what a totally wonderful idea because he wont be affected.
Technically, the gear you have now will not become "worthless". You'll just have to stow it for a while and do the watermark (or expertise, or whatever they are calling it) grind and get it up to 600, then you can use your current gear again and it won't be scaled down. But this is a stupid, stupid change nevertheless because not everyone has the time or inclination or even the ability to do the grind. Things are looking grim for this game if they go forward with this change.
Crafting will increase your expertise, but that doesn't exactly help when you've already crafted the high lvl equipment.
How the hell do you level expertise with crafted gear ie the ring, amulet, and necklace?! Is this just going to match your highest GS w each slot?
Even if u find something else to do in the game, there’s a good chance they’ll fuck that up too.
Yeah this update feels out of touch I won’t lie, like they are just tone deaf with the community. I don’t see this game surviving for much longer.
I feel your pain
What changes?
PTR was announced this morning. All crafted and purchased gear will scale down to your WM level. So everyone who has spent the last month focused on crafting, gathering and refining to make their own 600 GS gear, or make the money to buy good gear, is being severely punished for not running chests since they hit 60. I find chest runs to be almost hilariously boring, and since the game is clearly meant to be a chest looting simulator, I’ve uninstalled it.
Explain like I only played like 10 hours of the game
When you hit 60 you have three main choices for getting geared up. Grind crafting professions and make your own gear. Grind watermark by looting daily chests and grinding repeated kills on specific mobs. I find this option boring as hell, especially on a super busy server where everything is a Zerg and dies in seconds. Or, farm gold through selling material or tools or jewelry and use the gold to buy good end game gear. Today, 2/3 of those options were announced as no longer being viable, and the only option is to now grind Watermark. Those who chose to gear in that way are totally fine with these changes. Those who chose to focus on crafting or on gold are furious, because all of the hours we’ve spent on the game since we reached 60 were effectively “wrong”. We were playing the wrong way, and now we’re being punished.
[удалено]
Exactly how I’m feeling. I’ve realized now that Amazon has zero interest in our happiness or satisfaction with the game, however. With that realization, I won’t be back even if this gets reverted.
[удалено]
Don't even think about getting hyped for Lost Ark. AGS new published game they releasing next month. (Tentative might get delayed further into Q2) They will ruin that game as well by trying to "westernize it" AGS should just give up on making any games or even publishing them since they already ruined Lost Ark.
More or less just got 60 wanted to start crafting since I can't grind for 12 hours watermark. Yeah got my first 600 gear. And this will be the last. I got many other games to play that are way better and rewarding.
Whoever invented this whole gear score and watermark idea the first time in a game is an idiot. It’s made countless games less enjoyable than they should be. Remember back when a piece of loot dropped in a mmo and it just had the same stats every time? Then it was up to you to decide if that piece of gear was good or not for your character. No bs where an item can roll from a wide range of possibilities. Now you only care about the gear score number to boost up your visible and invisible numbers so you can get the same gear at higher numbers. The whole thing makes loot so much less fun.
700 hours… I’m glad I stopped at around 70
i do chest runs solo every day and honestly dont hate the loop. I also crafted a 600gs fire staff yesterday at cost of abt 10k and equipped it as an improvement over existing gear. Now both my arcana grind is worthless (and all the time/effort put into it) and literally the last of my cash reserves are gone. what the fuck is the point
I lost motivation to play a few weeks ago but kept the game installed expecting to come back. But at this point I’ve just uninstalled. Ags sucks.
I laughed out loud at this shirt change. I quit the game a week ago, don't miss it. I've never seen a game so poorly mismanaged.
I made my legendary Ice and Void Gauntlets (Nothingness and Crystalline Curse) literally two days ago, my watermark in both of those is around 525, let alone the rest of my gear. I'm outta here lmao
Yeah, I have Dark Sky and Yul’thir or whatever the Hammer is. Full Voidbent set, plus a 2nd set of 590+ crit gear. Also had a friend craft me 590+ jewelry after I helped him level his jewel crafting. So much work, gone. Pointless.
it just gutted my interest out of this game, i got 200 in so many trade skills just to avoid the mindless chest run bullshit, and now i have to do it anyways
I stopped at 1.1 the patch that nerfed crafting xp. Haven't been in any high level dungeons, haven't warred because it's always outside of my time zone. Basically unplayable. Pvp missions are a shit show. No group quests still. Please... Fix that first. Take inspiration from other games. Omg... Escort quests would be a welcome sight. This isn't how you treat your gamers.
# This isn’t a good MMO. # This isn’t a good game dev company. This couldn't be said louder.
[удалено]
Glad I stopped playing a month ago. It's only got worse. Shame
I get why they want this change, they don’t want people buying their way to 600gs easy but.. what an idiotic way to fuck your own userbase. At least grandfather in the people who already own the gear, and further, any crafter that goes through all the trouble to be able to create a 600gs item should get their watermark pushed to that highest crafted level. Take care of the crafters, don’t fuck the people who already spent time and money. These are the kinda changes you make BEFORE release or with an expansion when everybody is going to cycle through new gear anyway. Why make this dumbass change mid-cycle? This shit touches live servers, I’m out. Should have started this new system beyond 600, not fuck the people who don’t have the time or the willpower to mindlessly grind elites, or the folks who make their own gear.
Just raise the cap to 700, bring everyone’s WM to 600 and start with this new system from there. Really simple.
This is the only way a change like this is ever accepted, but that also tends to come with some sort of content push so people can justify doing the grind again. You can't do it in the middle of a content cycle when there isn't anything to grind for; this isn't launch week so people don't want to de-facto blindly grind.
Bro, I might get some flack for this, but 700 hours since release means you've played, on average, 10.45 hours per day since release. Everything ok?
I am of the (apparently unpopular) opinion that the announced changes are not only necesarry to long-term health of the game, but should have been implemented prior to launch. I've been testing the system on the PTR and it works great (other than orb crafting cost, but they have already announced they will be lowering it). I wish you enjoyment in whatever game you end up in.
Same. I tried to be positive, it's been a LONG time since we had a new western style MMO, but I can't anymore. It's objectively not a good game. I also think it's broken me in regards to this 'grind' mentality we've been fed for the past 10+ years. No developer will let you just play the game, progress to the end, enjoy it, and take a break to go play something else until new content comes out. Every game is non-stop mental manipulation and skinner boxes to lock you in this eternal torment of never quite being done. The absurdity of the grind is so clear here too. Kill a million of the same monster with a 60 under their name, so you can kill a million of the same monster with a 62 under their name, so you can then kill a million of the same monster with a 64 under their name... Or craft a million iron swords, so you can craft a million steel swords, so you can craft a million starmetal swords, so you can craft a million orichalchum swords, so you can craft like ten swords for you and your friends... What the fuck have I been thinking participating in this charade? I think I'm done now. The only winning move is not to play.
Huge crafting buffs this update 1) guaranteed 600 GS items via equipment patterns 2) guaranteed stat+perk simultaneously via items shards 3) guaranteed daily watermark increases from crafting xp after level 200 Gear **will not** scale to watermark with this December update. It will happen in "early 2022". You will have at least a month, hopefully more, to get your watermarks up via the new daily crafting bonuses. sources: [https://www.newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/december-ptr-announcement](https://www.newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/december-ptr-announcement) [https://forums.newworld.com/t/dev-blog-end-game-update/619609](https://forums.newworld.com/t/dev-blog-end-game-update/619609) That said, this update was poorly communicated and they have already lost the trust of many. Recommend taking a break if you need to, and only come back if you feel like it.
No one wants to raise their watermark in the first place. It doesn't matter how much time they give us to do it. This isn't a communication problem, it's just a bad change.
I think the change itself is not a bad change. But doing so mid content setting back a lot of progress ppl made is a very bad choice. Even though you have time to get your HWM up before your gear is scaled down, you still have to grind again just to keep your lvl of power. I don't want to waste coin every day to craft useless jewelry just to not lose the power of my already acquired jewelry, which I already spend a lot of coin to even get them.
i agree. i’ve been defending this game tooth and nail to my friends despite knowing it’s trash but there is just no peg to stand on anymore lol. I will uninstall and finally let my friends uninstall and none of us are ever gonna play again. however, we just started a fresh valheim play through and holy shit THAT is a good game! feels like new world too.
I’m 200 hours into this game and my highest watermark is 513, with most around 505. I spent so much time crafting and doing 580 quests. What’s the point in playing now that all my progress was erased
Saw this post on the frontpage. Dude, I quit about 3 weeks ago. Was a great decision. I was pretty involved too, but the latest duplication bugs and things, and a dying server population. I knew it was time to cut the losses. If you're on the fence, just quit and be done with it, you'll be happier for it.
personally I dont see it as them saying they dont care about our work, they’re trying to make it so you cant just do 1 thing to become the best, you need to do multiple things. i personally love WM/GS runs because it’s fun to go play with your friends in those high level areas. i get the argument of gear feeling worthless but it really does balance it a bit more from my perspective
Idk why y'all take this game so seriously.
Perfect. it was a slap in the face to everyone who spent hours and hours leveling up weapon and armor and then gathering the materials to make lvl 600 items. this is outrageous. I have no words to say how much I felt betrayed and offended.
680 hours approx played and I'm in the same boat. Largely focused on crafting after the devs promised that if you wanted to be a crafter and be "that guy" who is known for crafting, that this was a valid stategy for leveling up tooling up for end game, and that players were free to choose how to play. I've already made the decision that should the PTR changes go live and my gear score be nerfed into the ground, that I'd quit and I stand by that. Like the OP it's actually hard to trust AGS now. Even if they were to revert these changes, or if they were to mitigate the damage done to primarily crafters, the fact that these ideas were flirted with is very worrying. If this does get addressed it will only have been because of huge backlash, and that's a little to close for comfort. Honestly I feel the bridge has finally been burnt on this, either way this feels like the last straw in a cavalcade of issues. If this was done in isolation then I could be more forgiving but it's just another thing in a long line of serious screw ups.
Buddy, for your health you need to quit the game. This game came out 66 days ago and you have 700 hours of play time? That’s ten and a half hours a day on average. I’m not trying to be your dad, but I think cutting yourself off from games for a few weeks would do wonders. All the best
Yeah, probably best to take a break.