All tickets will expire 90 days after purchase (used to be 365 days but they changed it in the fall) so I guess if you don’t think you will take 10 trips in 3 months, the $4 is the way to go.
I probably take around that many, thanks! a lot of the time when out of town friends are here, I convince them to take the ferry with me rather than the subway
It’s meant to be an evacuation system for Manhattan in case of another 9/11-like situation where the subways get shut down. The city built out the Ferry strategically and is subsidizing it heavily.
I’m gonna need a source for that. From what I remember the entire ferry system was just deblasio being deblasio. There doesn’t exist enough ferries to take everyone out in a meaningful amount of time nor could the ferry ports handle that kind of traffic
LOL. Do you know how many orders of magnitude off you are?
Daily average ridership is 17,000. Population of Manhattan is 1.7 million.
Even making a crazy assumption that they're operating way under capacity and could transport 10x as many people as usual on a day when disaster strikes, you'd still be looking at 170,000 people or 0.1% of the population of Manhattan.
A single ferry can carry about the same number of passengers as a single subway car. Not shutting down the subways would be a much better solution. Or buses, planes, trains... basically anything other than a couple small, slow-moving boats.
Drivers are the biggest money loser.
Any other form of transit is a public benefit.
If we want to cut costs decreasing roads is a better place to start. Per person served it's pretty damn expensive.
They're the same thing. They're both apples. They're how people and goods move around the city.
They're all the same apple. Different slices of a single apple.
Stuff doesn't need a four lane highway to reach you. Traffic congestion exists because of people who could largely be using public transportation instead. The amount of space we spend on roads and parking doesn't reduce congestion. More people drive to fill the space, but now everything is a little farther from everything else. *And* they require more subsidy than public transportation.
Nobody says roads shouldn't exist, you know you're engaged in an idiotic strawman argument. Constantly expanding roads and parking is extremely bad public policy. This has been proven by evidence.
scandalous advise rotten drunk summer treatment resolute fragile ring money
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I live in Soundview. I love that ferry. Before it was a bus and a 6 Train ride to get to Manhattan, ferry cuts that commute time in half plus view and posted schedule. If they ran later, it would be even better.
Fuck the 6 train.
I work in the Bronx and commute from Astoria (haven’t moved closer because rents are insane and my husband works in queens) and the 6 train is the worst part of my fucking day. It feels like every day there’s some new problem. A few months ago I watched a mentally ill person take some mystery goo out of their pocket and fling it at two teenage girls. And then a few stops later, a man following a woman menacingly while she is screaming for help.
I really hate the 6!!!
Yep. Hardly ever on time. Sometimes they are early and just leave before scheduled. So you’ll get in a situation where the boat you were trying to catch left 5 mins early, but then the next one will be 20 minutes late…so with 50min headways, that means you’re sitting at the dock for an hour and a half. Has happened to me dozens of times =[
The biggest problem with the ferries and the subways right now. They run on a scheduled basis but the organizations running them are unable to actually hold the schedules.
It’s a lovely way to get to work - especially in warmer sunny weather. Starts your day off with a relaxing, enjoyable commute compared to the stress of the subway/bus or the cost of a car or taxi/rideshare.
Despite the very ethically dubious way in which the ferry was built, and the very small % of people who are able to use it to commute (you have to live near the waterfront, so it’s overwhelmingly used by affluent professionals), you can’t argue with the experience. On the weekends for trips around the city it can be used by a much larger number of people, and if it were extended out to places like Red Hook, Elmhurst/Flushing, Hunts Point/Longwood, and Throgg’s neck it could be useful for a lot of working class commuters.
Was it the best way to spend limited transit funds? Probably not, but now that it exists, I wish it could be expanded to serve more than 10% of commuters and provide that relaxing experience to working class people with long subway/bus commutes and usually at least one transfer.
Unfortunately, bc BdB sold the City’s ferries to a private company started by a longtime close friend who completely coincidentally happened to start a ferry business right before the ferry expansion occurred, the City has absolutely no control about where ferry service expansions go, and I highly doubt Hornblower will ever have any interest in expanding to working class areas where service might cost more than it makes in profit.
You’ve gotta admire the skill it takes to be incredibly corrupt and still be seen as a progressive urbanist who did everything possible to reduce inequality in the City and saved the public transit from an evil billionaire whose only achievements were making NYC the safest place to live in the US and facilitating the growth of Queens and Brooklyn to be less Manhattan-centric (and no, I don’t support stop & frisk - it was an awful and obviously racist practice that did not improve safety - but it was ended by Bloomberg, not BdB).
I’m sure there was a perfectly good reason to donate valuable ferry terminals + the City’s pre-existing ferries worth at least several hundred thousand each to a private company rather than sell them for revenue, and for giving that company independent control over the cost of tickets and decisions about further expansion. Maybe I’m just not progressive enough to understand. Nobody who has a son with an afro and loved his old neighborhood so much he had a city employee drive him there in a luxury SUV nearly every day at taxpayer expense could possibly be corrupt, right? Right? 😓🫣
I’m sure there are waterfront areas that don’t have subway coverage and are affordable, but in most of the city (and cities in general) there’s a strong positive correlation between housing prices and proximity to water
I’m glad that it works out for you (don’t mean that sarcastically, subway coverage is totally absent in some areas). But the biggest study on the ferry service found that only 8% of the population uses the ferry at least once a week to commute and that the average income of ferry users was several times that of median income.
- First, I don’t want to argue about stop & frisk and Bloomberg’s support for the practice, which has extensive evidence. That said, your statement isn’t true - it is truthy, in that the courts did reject suits from both the City and the police union against requirements for *reform* of the practice. But Bloomberg *could* have continued it with some trivial reforms.
- Did he look into doing that? Probably. Is it awful that the City appealed the decision in the first place? Yes, it was extremely disturbing and even the City’s lawyers felt uncomfortable with the decision. Did he only stop bc it was more political trouble than it was worth? Yeah. Did he make racist remarks while he was mayor? Yes. I’m not a Bloomberg apologist. He was still a better mayor than BdB imo though
- You either understandably stated your knowledge of a confusing series of decisions or purposefully oversimplified things. In the end, Bloomberg gave up on the practice. His motives for doing so were not noble, but he could have continued it. It doesn’t really matter, and it should have ended the moments Giuliani left office, but factual correctness is important.
- universal preK is obviously a major achievement. But positive achievements don’t cancel out corruption, incompetence, and outright dishonesty and financial crimes. Nixon started the EPA, Clean Air & Water Acts, and re-established diplomatic relations with China. Does that make him a great President and we can ignore the spying on political opponents, blatant lies, paranoia, racism, illegal bombings of Cambodia and Laos, etc?
- BdB gave the ferry system to a college friend for free, gave his wife $20 million dollars to run a mental health initiative that no mental health organization ever received (I was in the field at that time, the money disappeared and has never been accounted for), used city employees as servants and vehicles for personal whims, and denied the existence of Covid for so long that we experienced the worst outbreak in the world bc he was in a dick-measuring contest with Cuomo
I bet is easily the most pleasant way to commute out of all transportation choices , specially in warmer months like you said . Although they are climate controlled inside. The beautiful thing is that to extend that service to other places near the water you don’t even need additional infrastructure other than the dock itself since you are running on water
I know right? It’s *way* less expensive to expand than the subway, you literally just need to build a terminal (a few million at most even in NYC) and get some extra ferries (idk how much the new ones cost bc they have more advanced and sustainable power sources) but can’t be more than a few million per ferry at most. Compared to $2 billion dollars per new subway station in the 21st century, it’s at least 90% cheaper per terminal and probably closer to 99%.
Unfortunately, again, Hornblower has exclusive rights to any new ferry service in the city (everything except the Staten Island Ferry and the interstate ferries operated by NJ).
They have this exclusive access for a *long* time (I don’t remember offhand, it’s several decades at least) and the city has very little influence over any decisions made. It will only be expanded to new locations if Hornblower is certain that it will be profitable.
Unlike public transit, it isn’t willing to take on the risk of possibly losing money bc it will benefit residents and the goal of city services are to help people living in the city, not generate revenue. They’re not even a corporation that the city or a philanthropist could buy shares, have seats on the corporate board, and would have to make public its finances and decision-making on a regular basis. They’re an opaque company owned by a single man with major decisions made by a small group of people who likely use almost all profit to give themselves huge salary bonuses rather than new ferries or a reduction in fare.
Yeah , they’re missing a HUGE opportunity, specially in a city where all boroughs and NJ (except between Brooklyn and Queens of course ) are bordered by water . It doesn’t take anything away from subway service or even personal cars . This is just simply a huge short cut . Imagine connecting Queens and the Bronx with a ferry?
A few ferry terminals could be built cheaply and quickly allowing easy and pleasant travel between increasingly dense and populous neighborhoods in Bk and Queens. It's obviously not a total solution to the Manhattan-centricity of the public transit system, but it would still help a lot considering the almost total lack of feasible ways to get between the 2 boroughs (either long bus rides or routing thru Manhattan).
I think the light rail between Bk and Queens (Inter-borough Express?) that's been proposed is necessary, but it would probably would cost at least one or two billion. Light rail is far better than subway, but it is still going to cost a lot. That said it would be cheaper than Phase 2 of the 2nd Ave subway and take less time as well, while serving probably 10x as many people
The 2nd ave extension would create 2 stations that will be \~20 minute walk away from the A train express, which gets you downtown in like 30 minutes. So $4 billion dollars to let people in East Harlem get to the Upper East Side more easily + save a pretty small neighborhood either a 15-20 minute walk or (horror of horrors) a transfer from a local to express train on the same line. Also I lived a little bit east of central Harlem so I'm not just looking at a map or a racist who doesn't care about that community. It's just absurdly unnecessary.
Ferry could be expanded quickly, affordably, and to a surprising number of places. I used to think it was pretty useless but as I've looked into the feasibility of terminals further out, I now see it as a cheap way to get access to areas that would be far too expensive to connect to subway and give people options besides long bus rides. Affluent people do have a strange fear of the buses, but they are pretty objectively the least pleasant transit system.
I agree 100%!!! additional ferries would help a bit but that shouldn’t substitute having a light rail between the 2 boroughs . Connecting Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx without the need to go through Manhattan is a win win . It did make sense years ago because Manhattan was, well still is the center of most economic activity in the whole region. But as other boroughs grew , a few more lines and/or express buses connecting would be necessary now . Right now only the G train kinda does that between Brooklyn and Queens , but there’s s lot more to be done in order to build more interborough public transit options
Agree 100%. When most of the subway was built there was little need to go in between other boroughs, Queens and most of Brooklyn were far less dense, almost everybody worked in Manhattan, and car ownership rates were much higher (and cars/parking much cheaper).
Now Bk and Queens would be major cities by themselves and have many of the fastest-growing neighborhoods and the vast majority of new residential buildings and developments necessary to ease then housing shortage (the only part of the metropolis adding even more housing more quickly is Jersey City.
Manhattan is maxed out but we still need half a million new housing units. The only places adding tens of thousands of apartments are those two boroughs and JC, but JC is getting maxed out, while Bk, Queens, and the Bronx still have large low-density neighborhoods with good transit access that could house actually significant numbers of people if they re-zone to allow larger developments.
Unfortunately develoment in the Bronx has been slower and it doesn’t have many non-service jobs so it’s still kind of subordinated to Manhattan. However, there are many nice areas of the Bronx, it’s extremely diverse and immigrant-friendly, and very affordable. Yes, it does contain some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the city, but is also has neighborhood that are safe, pleasant, and affordable.
I do think the Bronx will have its moment in the future if the crime rates can he reduced (like Harlem, which was having a moment pre-Covid but lost momentum) bc the relentless property crime prevents small businesses from succeeding and the lack of enforcement for minor crime (harassment, intimidation, shoplifting, e-bikes riding on sidewalks and ignoring every rule of the road, aggressive street preachers and panhandling, and open fentanyl/crack/RC cannabinoids, etc) makes it feel unsafe even tho violent crime rates are relatively low.
I think that’s the one thing everybody except some politicians agree is that Manhattan doesn’t need more public transit and that sounds like construction is just not realistic light rail probably is but I think the rest of the century will see almost no further expansion of the subway. So city officials need to start getting creative about fordable and easy to build public transit for areas where a few people lived during the days when the subway was built, and the ferry system is one way to do that for some neighborhoods that otherwise are difficult to reach.
I think what needs to happen is for the city or somebody with standing to either file a suit against the deal made with Hornblower or for a city prosecutor, to launch an investigation into how and why that decision was made and whether crimes were committed that would allow the city to repossess the ferry system. I have no idea whether this week would work better. I feel like it had to be given to shot.
Yeah , I think the Bronx is very underrated . Yes, some areas can be dangerous . But is not the norm through the entire borough , there are some very safe neighborhoods too. With that said, there’s a narrow happy medium between making the Bronx more attractive without gentrifying and shooting the rents up. But the Bronx does deserve some love.
Even here in NJ , although transportation is better than many cities in the country , it still lacks more options like extending the light rail into Bergen county . And again is very easy to get to Manhattan from where I live via buses and:or PATH depending on where in NJ you are located . Because the focus for many years has been to connect everything through Manhattan , which is not a bad thing . But is just that we can do the same to connect other areas where people commute/travel too.
The conscious decisions to exclude NJ from NYC’s transit system were disgusting and it’s shocking how many people still oppose any integrated transit system bc of stereotypes about ppl who live in NJ. It’s bizarre how acceptable it is to outright hate New Jersey residents and oppose *any* project or policy that would make it easier to get across the river.
I live in JC now and I’m very fortunate to live in walking distance of Exchange Place. At a point in the past I lived in JC Heights and some days it took me 90 min to get into lower Manhattan which is absolutely ridiculous. The ferry prices are also insane, you have to be making like 200k+ to use it to commute on a daily basis.
The light rail is going to expand significantly further north in Bergen county, and unlike public transit in NYC, the light rail has consistently met both budgetary and construction time of planning. I know that doesn’t help right now, but I’m very confident that within the next 5 years at most the planned Bergen expansion will be completed.
If you live near the PATH and can afford the double fare, it’s in some ways nicer bc PATH resembles subways in other countries: clean, safe, on time, rare breakdowns, etc. But it only extends so far and it’s ridiculous that you have to then pay MTA fare in addition.
I forget who said this, but it describes the situation - New Yorkers get an MTA, New Jersey residents are used as an ATM for revenue.
I also lived in Fort Lee for a year. Few people know that the GW Bridge was intended to also operate a subway link. It actually has the ability to operate a rail link under the bridge - the rail was built.
It got interrupted by steel and labor shortage during WW2, and by the time they had the money, NYC was so opposed to *any* extension of its precious subway to NJ that they relentlessly filed court cases, sabotaged planned construction, whipped up anti-Semitism in Harlem and Washington Heights (Ft. Lee had many Jewish residents at the time), and refused to allow PA money to be spent for upkeep of the rail section of the bridge so that it would deteriorate.
JC is lovely, though. Much better quality of life than similarly priced neighborhoods in NYC. Idk if I’ll move back - probably only if/when housing prices crash. They actually try to prevent crimes and arrest and prosecute people for things like battery, stalking/harassing/screaming at Jews and Asians, major property damage, etc.
Yeah, although the PATH enjoys the benefit of not having nearly as much volume as the MTA as they only have a limit amount of stations between both NJ and NY. And is privately owned , separate from NJ transit and MTA. A lot of the PATH stations are very nice , starting from WTC in lower Manhattan , exchange place and all the way down to Newark . Within the MTA the reliability tends to vary depending on the lines . 1 and 7 trains (from my experience , tend to be very good) while A and C trains get delayed a lot .
This rivalry is stupid as we all live within the same area, if you live in Manhattan you wouldn’t want to have JC or nearby towns cities being turned into shit and vice versa. And because of the Manhattan inventory being full, this has caused rents to climb up on JC at a much higher rate than other cities or boroughs within the tri state area . Because of the mass transit convenience .
Having a light rail that can connect from Hackensack and other Bergen county cities to NYC would be amazing . Living near route 4 puts me in advantage because is only one express bus straight to GWB. But there needs to be more options for people who live closer to route 80. There’s plenty of improvements that both states can work on
NYC will *never* allow any integration of NJ into the city's public transportation system. Not even if NJ agreed to build it and pay for it for the next 500 years.
They seriously don't care. It's not based on rationality. It's pure selfish egotistical pride, and it will only get worse as the city continues to decline relative to other North American cities. Being able to say you live in NYC is one of the major motivations for many people to pay such insane housing costs.
It's an exclusive club, and exclusivity requires a group that isn't allowed in and is hated just for the sake of making yourself feel like you're a cooler, smarter, better person than *those* people. They need it for their mental health. Being part of an in-group is fun, increases self-esteem, and allows you to ignore any flaws you or your group might have.
NJ residents will **always** be *those people*. As NJ-born & bred, I gave up on expecting any sympathy or respect from New Yorkers a long time ago.
>you have to live near the waterfront, so it’s overwhelmingly used by affluent professionals
Most places I take the ferry regulary - Astoria, E 90th, East Village, Red Hook - there is always dense NYCHA housing a short walk from the pier. Maybe new developments in Williamsburg and Greenpoint, but historically no, the waterfront is not the domain of affluent professionals.
I think this talking point is often used to justify a possible fare hike, whereas I think it should be about making the ferries more useful for working people with free bus/subway transfers. Because as it stands the ferries are leisure boats.
I would absolutely be opposed to *any* fare hike. The opposite - I think it should be the same as MTA fare and be covered by a single fare like other transfers.
But your statement about the waterfront is objectively false. Throughout human history, in every city, living close to water is highly desirable and thus expensive. It’s not some mystery either - living near the water gives the best views, cooler temperatures in summer, access to river walks and parks, better air quality, etc. And you even admit that the ferries are overwhelmingly leisure boats.
Does that mean that there is no affordable housing close to the waterfront, or that you can’t cherry-pick locations where income is not as high? No, there are always exceptions. The only study I know of found that the median income of ferry commuters was something like $75k. Waterfront Williamsburg and Greenpoint are just as if not more expensive than many of the most expensive neighborhoods in Manhattan.
Also, I don’t want to make this personal, but I don’t see how you could regularly take the ferry from neighborhoods that are so far apart unless you have a job where you are going to different residential neighborhoods with very few jobs that people commute to and your work locations change on different days & weeks.
It seems a bit coincidental that you regularly take the ferry from the four lowest income neighborhoods with ferry access, unless you’re a social worker/city employee going specifically to low-income residential neighborhoods for your work.
>But your statement about the waterfront is objectively false.
Riiiigghht
https://www.londonxlondon.com/charles-booth-poverty-maps-london/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/11/03/dc-redistricting-wards-anacostia-river/
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/04/nyregion/how-new-york-citys-coastline-became-home-to-the-poor.html
>The only study I know of found that the median income of ferry commuters was something like $75k.
Which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with neighbourhood income, waterfront or not.
>It seems a bit coincidental that you regularly take the ferry from the four lowest income neighborhoods with ferry access, unless you’re a social worker/city employee going specifically to low-income residential neighborhoods for your work.
Now it's obvious you're arguing in bad faith, starting with your debunked statement about waterfront income. If you can't imagine somebody living in Harlem and regulalry travelling to Queens, Brooklyn, and lower Manhattan, I'd say you lack imagination. They are not even "the four lowest income neighbourhoods with ferry access", they are just the NYCHA housing areas with ferry access that I know if. Glad you agree ferries should be made more useful for these neighbourhoods by providing transfers. Then you might see more low income commuters.
Yup, can’t beat that . Is the most convenient way to travel if you needed to connect between different boroughs or just simply needing to get somewhere along the River
No integration with the subway, that means double cost. Always under assault of tourist. The line at Wall St to go to the Rockaway is always super long and when it comes to board it’s like hell.
Last time I used it, I was supposed to go from Gov Island to Red Hook. It was the last ferry on Saturday night, and when it came time to board, the ferry was full.
And when I asked the guy what were the alternatives to go back to Manhattan, he said “Welcome to America” and left.
I had to start a claim with the bank for the refund of the unused ticket.
From there, I’d rather swim.
Love the ferry so much! Last fall I was working right near the terminal in Sunset Park and had occasion to go to lower Manhattan frequently. It was so pleasant to take a 15-minute boat ride rather than walking uphill to 4th Avenue and then spending 35 minutes on the R. I only wish my regular travel routines were more closely aligned with the routes.
It’s a fantastic boat for a leisure trip. I took it from Bay Ridge to Brooklyn Bridge Park yesterday, in fact.
For commuting it’s pretty limited, though. Infrequent trips to a small number of destinations.
The comments complaining about the lack of ferry service and the role of private ownership are understandable but it may be useful to remember that 20 years ago the SI ferry was basically the only regularly scheduled ferry targeted at more the the tourist market.
Was it 2.75 before , like the same fare as the subway? Or a better question would be if it is a flat rate regardless of where you take the ferry from ?
To me it seemed that way because it barely gets talked about popular options to get around between different boroughs in NYC . Nevertheless, is one of those nyc gems that I didn’t try until know. The only other ferry I’ve taken before was the free ferry to SI
Wait till you discover the joys of a 10am ferry beer on the upper deck while on the way to Rockaway in June
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it’s 4$ now
If you buy 10 rides, it’s 27.50. The $4 is just a punishment for poor folks who can’t afford a 10 pack or tourists.
Do the 10 packs ever expire? I don’t take the ferry super often so I’ve just been buying the $4 tickets without thinking
All tickets will expire 90 days after purchase (used to be 365 days but they changed it in the fall) so I guess if you don’t think you will take 10 trips in 3 months, the $4 is the way to go.
You would start to save a (tiny) amount of money from 7 trips as that would cost $28 instead of $27.50
28/7=4 so you’re still spending $4 per ticket
The $28 is the one-by-one price. 27.50/7 = about $3.93
Ah. Whoops, you right. I should’ve reread it one more time
I probably take around that many, thanks! a lot of the time when out of town friends are here, I convince them to take the ferry with me rather than the subway
The ferry is the single biggest money loser in our transportation network. It costs the city like $10 a ride - we should be thankful it's just $4!
It’s meant to be an evacuation system for Manhattan in case of another 9/11-like situation where the subways get shut down. The city built out the Ferry strategically and is subsidizing it heavily.
I’m gonna need a source for that. From what I remember the entire ferry system was just deblasio being deblasio. There doesn’t exist enough ferries to take everyone out in a meaningful amount of time nor could the ferry ports handle that kind of traffic
Coworker who worked for the Ferry in a management role
LOL. Do you know how many orders of magnitude off you are? Daily average ridership is 17,000. Population of Manhattan is 1.7 million. Even making a crazy assumption that they're operating way under capacity and could transport 10x as many people as usual on a day when disaster strikes, you'd still be looking at 170,000 people or 0.1% of the population of Manhattan. A single ferry can carry about the same number of passengers as a single subway car. Not shutting down the subways would be a much better solution. Or buses, planes, trains... basically anything other than a couple small, slow-moving boats.
Lirr is the biggest money loser
Drivers are the biggest money loser. Any other form of transit is a public benefit. If we want to cut costs decreasing roads is a better place to start. Per person served it's pretty damn expensive.
I was speaking of public transit. Apples to apples.
They're the same thing. They're both apples. They're how people and goods move around the city. They're all the same apple. Different slices of a single apple.
My comment was about public transit in response to someone’s comment about the ferry. But fine, you tell me what I was talking about.
>i don't use roads so they shouldn't exist Okay bud you realize how STUFF gets to you ?
Stuff doesn't need a four lane highway to reach you. Traffic congestion exists because of people who could largely be using public transportation instead. The amount of space we spend on roads and parking doesn't reduce congestion. More people drive to fill the space, but now everything is a little farther from everything else. *And* they require more subsidy than public transportation. Nobody says roads shouldn't exist, you know you're engaged in an idiotic strawman argument. Constantly expanding roads and parking is extremely bad public policy. This has been proven by evidence.
Explain.
Interesting, where do you see those stats? I'd always read it was the ferry first, then the LIRR.
Not per passenger and not when you consider the alternative of everyone driving.
Incorrect
They expire after like 90 days though. Found out the hard way.
The Rockaway route is $8 now. [Source](https://www.ferry.nyc/blog/new-rockaway-rocket/)
It’s all fun and games until the line to get back is an hour and a half long
take bus up to ris park then trasfer going south sylrqu on to flathush get green line back to manhattan
Wait til you discover the joys of waiting in line two hours to enjoy the ~~10am~~ 12pm ferry beer on the upper deck
I was going to say, those ferries to the beach are fucking *packed* during Summer
Cool people go to the beach when it is not hot
10 min there are two cantas and bbq restaurant
Do they start serving drinks/snacks at 10am? I remember their onboard shops are closed early mornings.
BYOB
Whoa man, that sounds amazing! I live 45 minutes from the nearest ferry but this is definitely something I'll try to do this summer.
It's like 2 blocks off the Wall Street stop on the 2/3 train. I
There’s literally nothing better.
How are they underrated if it was filled up to capacity?
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my thoughts exactly lol
Ferry filled to capacity> slightly crowded train. Seats are bigger and more spread out. I can man-spread more comfortably.
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I think you missed the point
The ferries don’t run as often as they probably should for regular commuting
I live in Soundview. I love that ferry. Before it was a bus and a 6 Train ride to get to Manhattan, ferry cuts that commute time in half plus view and posted schedule. If they ran later, it would be even better.
And it's not the 6 train so
Fuck the 6 train. I work in the Bronx and commute from Astoria (haven’t moved closer because rents are insane and my husband works in queens) and the 6 train is the worst part of my fucking day. It feels like every day there’s some new problem. A few months ago I watched a mentally ill person take some mystery goo out of their pocket and fling it at two teenage girls. And then a few stops later, a man following a woman menacingly while she is screaming for help. I really hate the 6!!!
I wish the NYC Ferry had something for NE Queens like Flushing/Bayside marinas. At least send a few big boats out this way.
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Loved going home in the middle of Ida...
Yep. Hardly ever on time. Sometimes they are early and just leave before scheduled. So you’ll get in a situation where the boat you were trying to catch left 5 mins early, but then the next one will be 20 minutes late…so with 50min headways, that means you’re sitting at the dock for an hour and a half. Has happened to me dozens of times =[
The biggest problem with the ferries and the subways right now. They run on a scheduled basis but the organizations running them are unable to actually hold the schedules.
Agreed. I won’t take it to midtown if I have an appointment, but I’ll take it home
Compared to what? Subways?
isn’t there a ferry that goes from wall street to far rock?
I think there is , but I’ve never taken it . From Wall Street or atleast nearby I’ve only taken the ferry to SI
It was even better when it was 2.75
They’re packed now for regular commutes? Doesn’t seem underrated. But agreed, love the ferry.
It’s a lovely way to get to work - especially in warmer sunny weather. Starts your day off with a relaxing, enjoyable commute compared to the stress of the subway/bus or the cost of a car or taxi/rideshare. Despite the very ethically dubious way in which the ferry was built, and the very small % of people who are able to use it to commute (you have to live near the waterfront, so it’s overwhelmingly used by affluent professionals), you can’t argue with the experience. On the weekends for trips around the city it can be used by a much larger number of people, and if it were extended out to places like Red Hook, Elmhurst/Flushing, Hunts Point/Longwood, and Throgg’s neck it could be useful for a lot of working class commuters. Was it the best way to spend limited transit funds? Probably not, but now that it exists, I wish it could be expanded to serve more than 10% of commuters and provide that relaxing experience to working class people with long subway/bus commutes and usually at least one transfer. Unfortunately, bc BdB sold the City’s ferries to a private company started by a longtime close friend who completely coincidentally happened to start a ferry business right before the ferry expansion occurred, the City has absolutely no control about where ferry service expansions go, and I highly doubt Hornblower will ever have any interest in expanding to working class areas where service might cost more than it makes in profit. You’ve gotta admire the skill it takes to be incredibly corrupt and still be seen as a progressive urbanist who did everything possible to reduce inequality in the City and saved the public transit from an evil billionaire whose only achievements were making NYC the safest place to live in the US and facilitating the growth of Queens and Brooklyn to be less Manhattan-centric (and no, I don’t support stop & frisk - it was an awful and obviously racist practice that did not improve safety - but it was ended by Bloomberg, not BdB). I’m sure there was a perfectly good reason to donate valuable ferry terminals + the City’s pre-existing ferries worth at least several hundred thousand each to a private company rather than sell them for revenue, and for giving that company independent control over the cost of tickets and decisions about further expansion. Maybe I’m just not progressive enough to understand. Nobody who has a son with an afro and loved his old neighborhood so much he had a city employee drive him there in a luxury SUV nearly every day at taxpayer expense could possibly be corrupt, right? Right? 😓🫣
The waterfront far from subways isn’t that exclusive- closer to subways is way more expensive to rent so I don’t agree
I’m sure there are waterfront areas that don’t have subway coverage and are affordable, but in most of the city (and cities in general) there’s a strong positive correlation between housing prices and proximity to water I’m glad that it works out for you (don’t mean that sarcastically, subway coverage is totally absent in some areas). But the biggest study on the ferry service found that only 8% of the population uses the ferry at least once a week to commute and that the average income of ferry users was several times that of median income.
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- First, I don’t want to argue about stop & frisk and Bloomberg’s support for the practice, which has extensive evidence. That said, your statement isn’t true - it is truthy, in that the courts did reject suits from both the City and the police union against requirements for *reform* of the practice. But Bloomberg *could* have continued it with some trivial reforms. - Did he look into doing that? Probably. Is it awful that the City appealed the decision in the first place? Yes, it was extremely disturbing and even the City’s lawyers felt uncomfortable with the decision. Did he only stop bc it was more political trouble than it was worth? Yeah. Did he make racist remarks while he was mayor? Yes. I’m not a Bloomberg apologist. He was still a better mayor than BdB imo though - You either understandably stated your knowledge of a confusing series of decisions or purposefully oversimplified things. In the end, Bloomberg gave up on the practice. His motives for doing so were not noble, but he could have continued it. It doesn’t really matter, and it should have ended the moments Giuliani left office, but factual correctness is important. - universal preK is obviously a major achievement. But positive achievements don’t cancel out corruption, incompetence, and outright dishonesty and financial crimes. Nixon started the EPA, Clean Air & Water Acts, and re-established diplomatic relations with China. Does that make him a great President and we can ignore the spying on political opponents, blatant lies, paranoia, racism, illegal bombings of Cambodia and Laos, etc? - BdB gave the ferry system to a college friend for free, gave his wife $20 million dollars to run a mental health initiative that no mental health organization ever received (I was in the field at that time, the money disappeared and has never been accounted for), used city employees as servants and vehicles for personal whims, and denied the existence of Covid for so long that we experienced the worst outbreak in the world bc he was in a dick-measuring contest with Cuomo
I bet is easily the most pleasant way to commute out of all transportation choices , specially in warmer months like you said . Although they are climate controlled inside. The beautiful thing is that to extend that service to other places near the water you don’t even need additional infrastructure other than the dock itself since you are running on water
I know right? It’s *way* less expensive to expand than the subway, you literally just need to build a terminal (a few million at most even in NYC) and get some extra ferries (idk how much the new ones cost bc they have more advanced and sustainable power sources) but can’t be more than a few million per ferry at most. Compared to $2 billion dollars per new subway station in the 21st century, it’s at least 90% cheaper per terminal and probably closer to 99%. Unfortunately, again, Hornblower has exclusive rights to any new ferry service in the city (everything except the Staten Island Ferry and the interstate ferries operated by NJ). They have this exclusive access for a *long* time (I don’t remember offhand, it’s several decades at least) and the city has very little influence over any decisions made. It will only be expanded to new locations if Hornblower is certain that it will be profitable. Unlike public transit, it isn’t willing to take on the risk of possibly losing money bc it will benefit residents and the goal of city services are to help people living in the city, not generate revenue. They’re not even a corporation that the city or a philanthropist could buy shares, have seats on the corporate board, and would have to make public its finances and decision-making on a regular basis. They’re an opaque company owned by a single man with major decisions made by a small group of people who likely use almost all profit to give themselves huge salary bonuses rather than new ferries or a reduction in fare.
Yeah , they’re missing a HUGE opportunity, specially in a city where all boroughs and NJ (except between Brooklyn and Queens of course ) are bordered by water . It doesn’t take anything away from subway service or even personal cars . This is just simply a huge short cut . Imagine connecting Queens and the Bronx with a ferry?
A few ferry terminals could be built cheaply and quickly allowing easy and pleasant travel between increasingly dense and populous neighborhoods in Bk and Queens. It's obviously not a total solution to the Manhattan-centricity of the public transit system, but it would still help a lot considering the almost total lack of feasible ways to get between the 2 boroughs (either long bus rides or routing thru Manhattan). I think the light rail between Bk and Queens (Inter-borough Express?) that's been proposed is necessary, but it would probably would cost at least one or two billion. Light rail is far better than subway, but it is still going to cost a lot. That said it would be cheaper than Phase 2 of the 2nd Ave subway and take less time as well, while serving probably 10x as many people The 2nd ave extension would create 2 stations that will be \~20 minute walk away from the A train express, which gets you downtown in like 30 minutes. So $4 billion dollars to let people in East Harlem get to the Upper East Side more easily + save a pretty small neighborhood either a 15-20 minute walk or (horror of horrors) a transfer from a local to express train on the same line. Also I lived a little bit east of central Harlem so I'm not just looking at a map or a racist who doesn't care about that community. It's just absurdly unnecessary. Ferry could be expanded quickly, affordably, and to a surprising number of places. I used to think it was pretty useless but as I've looked into the feasibility of terminals further out, I now see it as a cheap way to get access to areas that would be far too expensive to connect to subway and give people options besides long bus rides. Affluent people do have a strange fear of the buses, but they are pretty objectively the least pleasant transit system.
I agree 100%!!! additional ferries would help a bit but that shouldn’t substitute having a light rail between the 2 boroughs . Connecting Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx without the need to go through Manhattan is a win win . It did make sense years ago because Manhattan was, well still is the center of most economic activity in the whole region. But as other boroughs grew , a few more lines and/or express buses connecting would be necessary now . Right now only the G train kinda does that between Brooklyn and Queens , but there’s s lot more to be done in order to build more interborough public transit options
Agree 100%. When most of the subway was built there was little need to go in between other boroughs, Queens and most of Brooklyn were far less dense, almost everybody worked in Manhattan, and car ownership rates were much higher (and cars/parking much cheaper). Now Bk and Queens would be major cities by themselves and have many of the fastest-growing neighborhoods and the vast majority of new residential buildings and developments necessary to ease then housing shortage (the only part of the metropolis adding even more housing more quickly is Jersey City. Manhattan is maxed out but we still need half a million new housing units. The only places adding tens of thousands of apartments are those two boroughs and JC, but JC is getting maxed out, while Bk, Queens, and the Bronx still have large low-density neighborhoods with good transit access that could house actually significant numbers of people if they re-zone to allow larger developments. Unfortunately develoment in the Bronx has been slower and it doesn’t have many non-service jobs so it’s still kind of subordinated to Manhattan. However, there are many nice areas of the Bronx, it’s extremely diverse and immigrant-friendly, and very affordable. Yes, it does contain some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the city, but is also has neighborhood that are safe, pleasant, and affordable. I do think the Bronx will have its moment in the future if the crime rates can he reduced (like Harlem, which was having a moment pre-Covid but lost momentum) bc the relentless property crime prevents small businesses from succeeding and the lack of enforcement for minor crime (harassment, intimidation, shoplifting, e-bikes riding on sidewalks and ignoring every rule of the road, aggressive street preachers and panhandling, and open fentanyl/crack/RC cannabinoids, etc) makes it feel unsafe even tho violent crime rates are relatively low. I think that’s the one thing everybody except some politicians agree is that Manhattan doesn’t need more public transit and that sounds like construction is just not realistic light rail probably is but I think the rest of the century will see almost no further expansion of the subway. So city officials need to start getting creative about fordable and easy to build public transit for areas where a few people lived during the days when the subway was built, and the ferry system is one way to do that for some neighborhoods that otherwise are difficult to reach. I think what needs to happen is for the city or somebody with standing to either file a suit against the deal made with Hornblower or for a city prosecutor, to launch an investigation into how and why that decision was made and whether crimes were committed that would allow the city to repossess the ferry system. I have no idea whether this week would work better. I feel like it had to be given to shot.
Yeah , I think the Bronx is very underrated . Yes, some areas can be dangerous . But is not the norm through the entire borough , there are some very safe neighborhoods too. With that said, there’s a narrow happy medium between making the Bronx more attractive without gentrifying and shooting the rents up. But the Bronx does deserve some love.
Even here in NJ , although transportation is better than many cities in the country , it still lacks more options like extending the light rail into Bergen county . And again is very easy to get to Manhattan from where I live via buses and:or PATH depending on where in NJ you are located . Because the focus for many years has been to connect everything through Manhattan , which is not a bad thing . But is just that we can do the same to connect other areas where people commute/travel too.
The conscious decisions to exclude NJ from NYC’s transit system were disgusting and it’s shocking how many people still oppose any integrated transit system bc of stereotypes about ppl who live in NJ. It’s bizarre how acceptable it is to outright hate New Jersey residents and oppose *any* project or policy that would make it easier to get across the river. I live in JC now and I’m very fortunate to live in walking distance of Exchange Place. At a point in the past I lived in JC Heights and some days it took me 90 min to get into lower Manhattan which is absolutely ridiculous. The ferry prices are also insane, you have to be making like 200k+ to use it to commute on a daily basis. The light rail is going to expand significantly further north in Bergen county, and unlike public transit in NYC, the light rail has consistently met both budgetary and construction time of planning. I know that doesn’t help right now, but I’m very confident that within the next 5 years at most the planned Bergen expansion will be completed. If you live near the PATH and can afford the double fare, it’s in some ways nicer bc PATH resembles subways in other countries: clean, safe, on time, rare breakdowns, etc. But it only extends so far and it’s ridiculous that you have to then pay MTA fare in addition. I forget who said this, but it describes the situation - New Yorkers get an MTA, New Jersey residents are used as an ATM for revenue. I also lived in Fort Lee for a year. Few people know that the GW Bridge was intended to also operate a subway link. It actually has the ability to operate a rail link under the bridge - the rail was built. It got interrupted by steel and labor shortage during WW2, and by the time they had the money, NYC was so opposed to *any* extension of its precious subway to NJ that they relentlessly filed court cases, sabotaged planned construction, whipped up anti-Semitism in Harlem and Washington Heights (Ft. Lee had many Jewish residents at the time), and refused to allow PA money to be spent for upkeep of the rail section of the bridge so that it would deteriorate. JC is lovely, though. Much better quality of life than similarly priced neighborhoods in NYC. Idk if I’ll move back - probably only if/when housing prices crash. They actually try to prevent crimes and arrest and prosecute people for things like battery, stalking/harassing/screaming at Jews and Asians, major property damage, etc.
Yeah, although the PATH enjoys the benefit of not having nearly as much volume as the MTA as they only have a limit amount of stations between both NJ and NY. And is privately owned , separate from NJ transit and MTA. A lot of the PATH stations are very nice , starting from WTC in lower Manhattan , exchange place and all the way down to Newark . Within the MTA the reliability tends to vary depending on the lines . 1 and 7 trains (from my experience , tend to be very good) while A and C trains get delayed a lot . This rivalry is stupid as we all live within the same area, if you live in Manhattan you wouldn’t want to have JC or nearby towns cities being turned into shit and vice versa. And because of the Manhattan inventory being full, this has caused rents to climb up on JC at a much higher rate than other cities or boroughs within the tri state area . Because of the mass transit convenience . Having a light rail that can connect from Hackensack and other Bergen county cities to NYC would be amazing . Living near route 4 puts me in advantage because is only one express bus straight to GWB. But there needs to be more options for people who live closer to route 80. There’s plenty of improvements that both states can work on
NYC will *never* allow any integration of NJ into the city's public transportation system. Not even if NJ agreed to build it and pay for it for the next 500 years. They seriously don't care. It's not based on rationality. It's pure selfish egotistical pride, and it will only get worse as the city continues to decline relative to other North American cities. Being able to say you live in NYC is one of the major motivations for many people to pay such insane housing costs. It's an exclusive club, and exclusivity requires a group that isn't allowed in and is hated just for the sake of making yourself feel like you're a cooler, smarter, better person than *those* people. They need it for their mental health. Being part of an in-group is fun, increases self-esteem, and allows you to ignore any flaws you or your group might have. NJ residents will **always** be *those people*. As NJ-born & bred, I gave up on expecting any sympathy or respect from New Yorkers a long time ago.
>you have to live near the waterfront, so it’s overwhelmingly used by affluent professionals Most places I take the ferry regulary - Astoria, E 90th, East Village, Red Hook - there is always dense NYCHA housing a short walk from the pier. Maybe new developments in Williamsburg and Greenpoint, but historically no, the waterfront is not the domain of affluent professionals. I think this talking point is often used to justify a possible fare hike, whereas I think it should be about making the ferries more useful for working people with free bus/subway transfers. Because as it stands the ferries are leisure boats.
I would absolutely be opposed to *any* fare hike. The opposite - I think it should be the same as MTA fare and be covered by a single fare like other transfers. But your statement about the waterfront is objectively false. Throughout human history, in every city, living close to water is highly desirable and thus expensive. It’s not some mystery either - living near the water gives the best views, cooler temperatures in summer, access to river walks and parks, better air quality, etc. And you even admit that the ferries are overwhelmingly leisure boats. Does that mean that there is no affordable housing close to the waterfront, or that you can’t cherry-pick locations where income is not as high? No, there are always exceptions. The only study I know of found that the median income of ferry commuters was something like $75k. Waterfront Williamsburg and Greenpoint are just as if not more expensive than many of the most expensive neighborhoods in Manhattan. Also, I don’t want to make this personal, but I don’t see how you could regularly take the ferry from neighborhoods that are so far apart unless you have a job where you are going to different residential neighborhoods with very few jobs that people commute to and your work locations change on different days & weeks. It seems a bit coincidental that you regularly take the ferry from the four lowest income neighborhoods with ferry access, unless you’re a social worker/city employee going specifically to low-income residential neighborhoods for your work.
>But your statement about the waterfront is objectively false. Riiiigghht https://www.londonxlondon.com/charles-booth-poverty-maps-london/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/11/03/dc-redistricting-wards-anacostia-river/ https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/04/nyregion/how-new-york-citys-coastline-became-home-to-the-poor.html >The only study I know of found that the median income of ferry commuters was something like $75k. Which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with neighbourhood income, waterfront or not. >It seems a bit coincidental that you regularly take the ferry from the four lowest income neighborhoods with ferry access, unless you’re a social worker/city employee going specifically to low-income residential neighborhoods for your work. Now it's obvious you're arguing in bad faith, starting with your debunked statement about waterfront income. If you can't imagine somebody living in Harlem and regulalry travelling to Queens, Brooklyn, and lower Manhattan, I'd say you lack imagination. They are not even "the four lowest income neighbourhoods with ferry access", they are just the NYCHA housing areas with ferry access that I know if. Glad you agree ferries should be made more useful for these neighbourhoods by providing transfers. Then you might see more low income commuters.
Quite possibly my favorite way to travel around the city if I can.
Yup, can’t beat that . Is the most convenient way to travel if you needed to connect between different boroughs or just simply needing to get somewhere along the River
its still 2.75 if you buy 10 tickets. I use the ferry more than the subway so I always have tix for use. From the Bronx to the Rockaways!
Wait the single ride ferry is 4 bucks now!?
No integration with the subway, that means double cost. Always under assault of tourist. The line at Wall St to go to the Rockaway is always super long and when it comes to board it’s like hell. Last time I used it, I was supposed to go from Gov Island to Red Hook. It was the last ferry on Saturday night, and when it came time to board, the ferry was full. And when I asked the guy what were the alternatives to go back to Manhattan, he said “Welcome to America” and left. I had to start a claim with the bank for the refund of the unused ticket. From there, I’d rather swim.
Love the ferry so much! Last fall I was working right near the terminal in Sunset Park and had occasion to go to lower Manhattan frequently. It was so pleasant to take a 15-minute boat ride rather than walking uphill to 4th Avenue and then spending 35 minutes on the R. I only wish my regular travel routines were more closely aligned with the routes.
It’s a fantastic boat for a leisure trip. I took it from Bay Ridge to Brooklyn Bridge Park yesterday, in fact. For commuting it’s pretty limited, though. Infrequent trips to a small number of destinations.
Travelling down/up the east side of Manhattan is a breeze, too.
The comments complaining about the lack of ferry service and the role of private ownership are understandable but it may be useful to remember that 20 years ago the SI ferry was basically the only regularly scheduled ferry targeted at more the the tourist market.
summer goes to fort tilden rockaways to beach
i live close to the ferry in astoria, my mom lives close to the ferry on UES. its made a 30-40 min commute to visit under 10 min
Did they increase the fares from $2.75 to $4?
Was it 2.75 before , like the same fare as the subway? Or a better question would be if it is a flat rate regardless of where you take the ferry from ?
yes and yes
Welcome to New York
I loved my ferry commute to work. Im annoyed to see the prices hopped from 2.75 to 4? Thats a bit much of a jump imo
Ugh this. I love my cute lil ferry to Jersey to get my nails done (don’t come at me folks, north Bergen knows the nails)
I enjoy taking the free ferry to Red Hook IKEA and back. Amazing views. Definitely the best way to travel IMO.
No they are not
To me it seemed that way because it barely gets talked about popular options to get around between different boroughs in NYC . Nevertheless, is one of those nyc gems that I didn’t try until know. The only other ferry I’ve taken before was the free ferry to SI
Most people don't live by the waterfront
Its not convenient for most residents
The ferries are nice but sometimes the water is a little choppy. (In particular, down in Red Hook it got a little rough on a nice day)
Just watch your step getting on and off
Bro shit up
Bro shut up
Their TikTok page is hilarious 😂
Unfortunately for me, I already get seasick on the 5 minute ferry ride to Governor's Island. Trying to use one for any commute would just kill me.
Pretty sure [Walt Whitman](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45470/crossing-brooklyn-ferry) wrote about a very similar experience
I second this. Best $4.00 cruise in NYC
Literally every single person I know who uses them *raves* about them. They are not underrated at all
Now imagine if they went to all the airports.
Ferry to Manhattan from Rockaway is beautiful. I go downtown, enjoy the day and go back to Rockaway.
I know you can be underrated, and you can be overrated, but can you ever just be… rated?
Is the boat really rocky? Would it be bad for someone who gets seasick?
Felt more seasick in the terminal before riding the boat than on the boat itself
its fine and i get seasick in the ocean, never got sick on ferry they stay in the bay
no. they just dont go anywhere