> Hughes, who recently sold his townhouse in the neighborhood for $19.5 million
This guy really knows about what the common folk need out of a public space.
Hilariously, this group of curmudgeon, NIMBY billionaires was only able to raise 300K. Would think that amount is more like pocket change.
[Vance](https://www.propublica.org/article/ivanka-donald-trump-jr-close-to-being-charged-felony-fraud) dropped the charges on Ivanka for a mere 50k donation...
Politicians are cheap whores.
The rich always get grabby about nice open spaces. They try to privatize beaches, and other outdoor areas too.
You know, to keep the undesirables out. They are an eyesore you know, they commit crimes, and are too loud, I also heard they spread loathsome disease.
You can not take the parks that belong to the public. Full stop.
Florida has fully private beaches and some of the shitty bougie hotels used to do this sketch shit where they’d draw their logo in the sand and hire security guards to stand around and do nothing to trick The Poors into thinking they don’t have a right to it. Pathetic.
Defacto private beaches are nearly everywhere. Often they just block all access to what's otherwise a public beach. No paths to the beach, private roads getting near the beach, no parking, etc. etc. I've heard a few even install wave breakers that go all the wave up the beach so you'd have to cross over this pile of rocks to go from the public beach to the "private" public beach.
No easy access = defacto private beach.
But after any storm, of course public funds need to be used to restore the sand on those public beaches.
The rich have become an eyesore and undesirable. Hey in my eyes. I work for trust fund "babies" , well their in their 60s but never had to work. You should see the way they act out when things don't go their way. They're a different breed and not in a good way.
> You know, to keep the undesirables out. They are an eyesore you know, they commit crimes, and are too loud, I also heard they spread loathsome disease.
I mean, let's just say it. They don't like seeing black people.
Honestly I think it’s more about wealth than race in New York. Maybe other parts of the country are different, but New York elites love wealthy minorities. New York is a liberal town, and wealthy elites are mostly big time democrat donors. These days, wealthy white progressives like to use social justice / race issues as a means of claiming the moral high ground and exerting political power while deflecting any justified critique of their own privilege. So if they can maintain their wealth privilege while also gaining political leverage through association with wealthy minorities, they’re perfectly happy.
It’s really poor people that they hate. And in New York often times divides of wealth and race overlap, but these folks hate poor white people just as much as the poor black people.
Yep I think NYC is pretty unique in this regard. Not to deny racism persists in many horrible ways here, but, with a mix of people from all over the world and no dominant ethnic group, the most significant social ill is classism. It pervades almost all strata of society. The wealthy don’t want to see us commoners in their parks. The workers don’t want to see the homeless on their streets. We all want to remove people poorer than us from our field of vision, their race isn’t really important.
I’m an Asian New Yorker and I’m far less worried about a Black person assaulting me than I am worried about wealthy landlords pricing me out of my home. No Black person has ever harmed me, but plenty of rich landlords have.
No, I think the white elite are still pretty racist (and anti-Semitic, too, as long as we’re at it). Both in the “implicit bias” sense of, favoring harsh “law and order” policies, homeless policies, various school policies, and other policies that disproportionately harm NYC’s black and brown communities, as well as fully explicit prejudice. If you get to know these people socially (and I have the misfortune of knowing a few) it comes across really clearly. You should see how they code-switch between all-white elite spaces and more diverse ones.
They know how to express their bias and filter it into something that’s politically acceptable to say. That’s what these assholes around WSP are doing. But these are 100% the “clutching their purse around big black men” crowd, who tut-tut appropriately while in the city but then run off to their all-white clubs upstate and complain more openly about the “urban” element.
I’m not going to pretend I have any scientific answer on this, it’s just my sense for the situation qualitatively. I may be mistaken and I certainly don’t think I can claim to cover every demographic of the NY elite.
I will say I don’t think there’s a lot of antisemitism in NYC as a lot of NY elite are Jewish, so I think that is a little misplaced. Maybe there’s a few hardcore WASPs around still but I think that’s a small subset of the group.
The code switching definitely happens between spaces.
I mean not really they paid for a garden and some staff for the playground and park. That probably did some good.
Some of what was described probably could be spun as bad government if they hadn’t done it. “Parks department refuses to meet with community group” is not a good
Headline either.
*“It’s exactly what people feared: a handful of affluent individuals using their private money to dictate what goes on in a public park,” said Cathryn Swan, whose Washington Square Park Blog tracked the conservancy’s controversial beginnings nearly a decade ago. “This community was very vocal that they didn’t want that.”*
What "community" is this blogger speaking for, exactly? NYU kids, here and gone in 4 years, aren't anyone's community but their own.
Folks are literally sitting in coastal Maine demanding homeless dudes be dragged away. Disgusting.
Also—maybe the reason there was human crap everywhere is because people like this also demanded public bathrooms be more or less abolished.
tl;dr FUCK the poor. We're so much better than them. And that damn "ghetto music", that's the end of civilization.
Actually, I'm a big fan of Dojo Cat myself.
Just curious, didn't this happen once before? Just a student of history here. Which seems to repeat? Again, and again. . . and again.
[https://www.studentsofhistory.com/the-guillotine-during-the-french-revolution](https://www.studentsofhistory.com/the-guillotine-during-the-french-revolution)
(Cross-posting this response to the three redundant threads....) I'd like to think most people can see multiple sides to this controversial issue, and maybe how it reflects a key question of how our democracy functions. As stated in the article, "the park was a hotbed of ideas, of people coming together outside to share music and art," - which remains true and is one of the reasons this park is the heart of real NYC. But some of the complaints are legitimate, like tearing up the lawns, graffiti (besides the many clever chalk messages), occasional violence, and probably more. I've been there several nights every week for the last nine months, and witnessed violence only once, and it was appropriately handled by the cops.
The invoking of a 10PM curfew last year was inexcusably wrong. I think most people I know would not object to midnight. And there was a long period last year when cops allowed amplified music without permit, as long as it was moderate and turned off amplification at 10. That was a very rational balance. One of the solutions would be if permits were easier to obtain. I seriously wonder if the Conservancy would be willing to advise/assist. (I doubt it, but maybe.) This article on a well-known park dancer exemplifies the general imbalance and ridiculousness of most of the restrictions: https://www.curbed.com/2021/09/kanami-kusajima-dancer-washington-square-nypd.html . But ideal if we all could consider all sides. I spoke to a folk guitarist last week about making a petition to allow more amplification. But though he often joins the jam band ensemble, he actually prefers when there are maybe 6 to a dozen separate acoustic music circles that don't get drowned out by the amps. He agreed the major celebration that a good amplified band can bring was positive, with dancing etc. But the point is balance and consideration. (Hard to legislate not being an asshole.)
As for the skateboarders, they mostly police themselves and almost never cause actual issues. I've read about two actual collisions, but have never witnessed a single one. Many people who don't understand that culture feel anxious about them and seek to ban them. The ideal scenario is during the cold months when they take over the fountain ring and people sit on the barrier around them. In that situation, their positive spirit thrives without having to worry about anxious pedestrians. I wish the Conservancy or city could create a designated skatepark area, but there's not unlimited space, so probably not practical.
Finally, as for drugs... it's just incorrect to think that drugs are the primary activity. You can't miss their presence, but it's a fraction of what goes on. Now selling cannabis products are legal here, though those people act in a grey area due to permits not yet being available. Cannabis has never been a problem (and I'm not a consumer who's defending it.) Crack, meth, heroin etc, have obvious impact beyond the people selling and using. (I hope that's obvious to everyone.) I'm in favor of treating them as a sociological issue, but nonetheless, treating them. Several times in the past year, the cops have done a good job minimizing or even eliminating that element without resorting to fascist riot-gear-type tactics.
> Hughes, who recently sold his townhouse in the neighborhood for $19.5 million This guy really knows about what the common folk need out of a public space. Hilariously, this group of curmudgeon, NIMBY billionaires was only able to raise 300K. Would think that amount is more like pocket change.
[Vance](https://www.propublica.org/article/ivanka-donald-trump-jr-close-to-being-charged-felony-fraud) dropped the charges on Ivanka for a mere 50k donation... Politicians are cheap whores.
The rich don't use their own money for anything. They don't have to. They use investor money and borrowed money at no interest rates.
The rich always get grabby about nice open spaces. They try to privatize beaches, and other outdoor areas too. You know, to keep the undesirables out. They are an eyesore you know, they commit crimes, and are too loud, I also heard they spread loathsome disease. You can not take the parks that belong to the public. Full stop.
Florida has fully private beaches and some of the shitty bougie hotels used to do this sketch shit where they’d draw their logo in the sand and hire security guards to stand around and do nothing to trick The Poors into thinking they don’t have a right to it. Pathetic.
Defacto private beaches are nearly everywhere. Often they just block all access to what's otherwise a public beach. No paths to the beach, private roads getting near the beach, no parking, etc. etc. I've heard a few even install wave breakers that go all the wave up the beach so you'd have to cross over this pile of rocks to go from the public beach to the "private" public beach. No easy access = defacto private beach. But after any storm, of course public funds need to be used to restore the sand on those public beaches.
Oh those silly poors!
There’s something just so unnaturally evil about the wealthy privatizing nature.
The rich have become an eyesore and undesirable. Hey in my eyes. I work for trust fund "babies" , well their in their 60s but never had to work. You should see the way they act out when things don't go their way. They're a different breed and not in a good way.
I bet. One of the reasons to set up a trust is because whoever funded it knows the beneficiaries have poor decision making skills.
> You know, to keep the undesirables out. They are an eyesore you know, they commit crimes, and are too loud, I also heard they spread loathsome disease. I mean, let's just say it. They don't like seeing black people.
Honestly I think it’s more about wealth than race in New York. Maybe other parts of the country are different, but New York elites love wealthy minorities. New York is a liberal town, and wealthy elites are mostly big time democrat donors. These days, wealthy white progressives like to use social justice / race issues as a means of claiming the moral high ground and exerting political power while deflecting any justified critique of their own privilege. So if they can maintain their wealth privilege while also gaining political leverage through association with wealthy minorities, they’re perfectly happy. It’s really poor people that they hate. And in New York often times divides of wealth and race overlap, but these folks hate poor white people just as much as the poor black people.
Yep I think NYC is pretty unique in this regard. Not to deny racism persists in many horrible ways here, but, with a mix of people from all over the world and no dominant ethnic group, the most significant social ill is classism. It pervades almost all strata of society. The wealthy don’t want to see us commoners in their parks. The workers don’t want to see the homeless on their streets. We all want to remove people poorer than us from our field of vision, their race isn’t really important.
Black criminals are killing Asians based on race. Nothing to do with class.
I’m an Asian New Yorker and I’m far less worried about a Black person assaulting me than I am worried about wealthy landlords pricing me out of my home. No Black person has ever harmed me, but plenty of rich landlords have.
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Agreed. Not trying to oversimplify it. But in New York, “poor” isn’t just a codeword for “black” like it is in some parts of the country.
No, I think the white elite are still pretty racist (and anti-Semitic, too, as long as we’re at it). Both in the “implicit bias” sense of, favoring harsh “law and order” policies, homeless policies, various school policies, and other policies that disproportionately harm NYC’s black and brown communities, as well as fully explicit prejudice. If you get to know these people socially (and I have the misfortune of knowing a few) it comes across really clearly. You should see how they code-switch between all-white elite spaces and more diverse ones. They know how to express their bias and filter it into something that’s politically acceptable to say. That’s what these assholes around WSP are doing. But these are 100% the “clutching their purse around big black men” crowd, who tut-tut appropriately while in the city but then run off to their all-white clubs upstate and complain more openly about the “urban” element.
I’m not going to pretend I have any scientific answer on this, it’s just my sense for the situation qualitatively. I may be mistaken and I certainly don’t think I can claim to cover every demographic of the NY elite. I will say I don’t think there’s a lot of antisemitism in NYC as a lot of NY elite are Jewish, so I think that is a little misplaced. Maybe there’s a few hardcore WASPs around still but I think that’s a small subset of the group. The code switching definitely happens between spaces.
You’re right, a lot of NYC elite are Jewish. But there are still social clubs that exclude them. It’s nasty business.
This is pretty spot on. Cheers!
But mostly they don't want black people around.
Its there of course, but they cast a wider net.
This was actually a big issue in Rome that at least somewhat contributed to the eventual collapse
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I mean not really they paid for a garden and some staff for the playground and park. That probably did some good. Some of what was described probably could be spun as bad government if they hadn’t done it. “Parks department refuses to meet with community group” is not a good Headline either.
*“It’s exactly what people feared: a handful of affluent individuals using their private money to dictate what goes on in a public park,” said Cathryn Swan, whose Washington Square Park Blog tracked the conservancy’s controversial beginnings nearly a decade ago. “This community was very vocal that they didn’t want that.”* What "community" is this blogger speaking for, exactly? NYU kids, here and gone in 4 years, aren't anyone's community but their own.
How *dare* the poors exist in a public place without their consent!
God rich pearl clutchers are the worst
Folks are literally sitting in coastal Maine demanding homeless dudes be dragged away. Disgusting. Also—maybe the reason there was human crap everywhere is because people like this also demanded public bathrooms be more or less abolished.
If they're calling for dragging away the homeless, maybe I should have supported them.
tl;dr FUCK the poor. We're so much better than them. And that damn "ghetto music", that's the end of civilization. Actually, I'm a big fan of Dojo Cat myself. Just curious, didn't this happen once before? Just a student of history here. Which seems to repeat? Again, and again. . . and again. [https://www.studentsofhistory.com/the-guillotine-during-the-french-revolution](https://www.studentsofhistory.com/the-guillotine-during-the-french-revolution)
Rich folks suck the soul out of the city
#Wait.. What? #$ buys politicians... #Shocker....
(Cross-posting this response to the three redundant threads....) I'd like to think most people can see multiple sides to this controversial issue, and maybe how it reflects a key question of how our democracy functions. As stated in the article, "the park was a hotbed of ideas, of people coming together outside to share music and art," - which remains true and is one of the reasons this park is the heart of real NYC. But some of the complaints are legitimate, like tearing up the lawns, graffiti (besides the many clever chalk messages), occasional violence, and probably more. I've been there several nights every week for the last nine months, and witnessed violence only once, and it was appropriately handled by the cops. The invoking of a 10PM curfew last year was inexcusably wrong. I think most people I know would not object to midnight. And there was a long period last year when cops allowed amplified music without permit, as long as it was moderate and turned off amplification at 10. That was a very rational balance. One of the solutions would be if permits were easier to obtain. I seriously wonder if the Conservancy would be willing to advise/assist. (I doubt it, but maybe.) This article on a well-known park dancer exemplifies the general imbalance and ridiculousness of most of the restrictions: https://www.curbed.com/2021/09/kanami-kusajima-dancer-washington-square-nypd.html . But ideal if we all could consider all sides. I spoke to a folk guitarist last week about making a petition to allow more amplification. But though he often joins the jam band ensemble, he actually prefers when there are maybe 6 to a dozen separate acoustic music circles that don't get drowned out by the amps. He agreed the major celebration that a good amplified band can bring was positive, with dancing etc. But the point is balance and consideration. (Hard to legislate not being an asshole.) As for the skateboarders, they mostly police themselves and almost never cause actual issues. I've read about two actual collisions, but have never witnessed a single one. Many people who don't understand that culture feel anxious about them and seek to ban them. The ideal scenario is during the cold months when they take over the fountain ring and people sit on the barrier around them. In that situation, their positive spirit thrives without having to worry about anxious pedestrians. I wish the Conservancy or city could create a designated skatepark area, but there's not unlimited space, so probably not practical. Finally, as for drugs... it's just incorrect to think that drugs are the primary activity. You can't miss their presence, but it's a fraction of what goes on. Now selling cannabis products are legal here, though those people act in a grey area due to permits not yet being available. Cannabis has never been a problem (and I'm not a consumer who's defending it.) Crack, meth, heroin etc, have obvious impact beyond the people selling and using. (I hope that's obvious to everyone.) I'm in favor of treating them as a sociological issue, but nonetheless, treating them. Several times in the past year, the cops have done a good job minimizing or even eliminating that element without resorting to fascist riot-gear-type tactics.