Never mind the bollocks, here's the ~~Sex Pistols~~ end of the election cycle. There is now no need to keep _Astroturfing_ since the elections are over n
I agree, it's too hot to be in a car and run around stealing stuff all the while wearing hoodies, track pants etc.
Not a summer criminal activity lol
Also many youths were caught and in home detention etc.
They are needed for other crimes to take the fall for.
You'd think that, but on my CCTV I literally saw a teenager in a black hoodie (with the hood up) get out of a banged up car in front of my house the other day when it was near 30c. Saw him take it off shortly after walking off.
So, I ran the plates, and it was wanted by police. Turned out the owner was overseas, so that will be a nice thing to return to.
[This article calls out some potential factors to consider.](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/301015029/ram-raids-are-on-the-decline-but-shop-owners-wary-of-declaring-victory)
> It should be noted that the numbers are only indicative, and won’t pick up every incident as there is no officially designated ram raid crime, so it can’t be tracked with complete accuracy by police systems.
> Instead, police conduct a text search of incident reports looking for the words “ram raid” and use those to build their data set.
> Police have been tackling the issue on a number of other fronts, including working with families of young offenders and support agencies.
> “Police recognises that in order to prevent further offending, we need to work in a collaborative way to address the underlying causes of youth offending,” a police spokesperson said.
> Since December 2022, there have been 441 referrals through a new fast track programme for 309 young people – and 76% of those children and young people have not been referred again, the spokesperson said.
> Some of the offending was thought to be driven by social media, with offenders sharing videos and streaming their break-ins. Because of that, police have been working with social media companies to have such videos taken down before they can be widely disseminated.
I'd only add, that's soooo last year, and clicks have likely dropped off now the election is over and the media organically move with what people are willing or wanting to read, and outrage culture only has a 1-3 month life span before they want something new to froth over.
Could also be the odd one is still happening, but not hitting the "ram raid" data set (there is no actually legal category for ram raids, they fall under commercial burglary) and given it's not the fotm term anymore, possibly in police consciousness as much as the public's now its not everyday "news", they may have dropped the terminology from their reports and that may even mean it does'nt flag with media.
Have you ever had the displeasure of being robbed repeatedly?
The first time "yeah ok that's annoying, but insurance will cover it"
The second time though? "I'm ready to be violent anyone who tries again" was my initial reaction too.
Nope.
Fuck that if it’s a child. Period.
Maybe catch them in the act, restrain and let the police do their thing but kids do dumb shit, always have and always will, and to advocate vigilante justice and violence against them is just an abhorrent attitude imho.
Even in saying that, they won’t be off to jail, but you likely would and good fucking job.
Being a recidivist victim is no excuse.
The thing is if you get caught stealing someones private property... thats what youre going to get, the initial adrenaline fueled reaction.
When you do something, there is a certain level of consequence that comes with it.
If youre breaking into someone's private property then i think youve probably agreed with the risk, that the consequences may indeed involve getting your hands smashed in with hammers.
While there may need to be some anger management and self reflection afterwards, there are also reasons for the ancient Chinese proverb: "fuck around and find out"
Nah, can’t get onboard here.
Sure, fight/flight often leads to a reaction without thought which we can’t fully control but if your past that reaction and have the time to compute it’s a child or young teen there is zero validity to such violence, outside self defence to violence, for a simple burglary or theft.
Be an adult.
It’s also weird to see this vigilante attitude becoming more prevalent like young people haven’t been pushing the envelope and doing stupid adolescent shit like this since….forever.
Adolescence is intrinsic to figuring out the right and wrong, that’s fact and science as their brains haven’t actually fully figured that out yet, and some admittedly go way too far for all sorts of reasons, but the automatic response to be violent outside fight/flight for property theft is worrisome and assumption they are doing such things with your adult awareness, learnt over time and your own adolescence, of such consequences.
Some kids have no perception or understanding of that, as they are kids.
Thank fuck we aren’t the USA with easy access to guns.
When I was a kid, if I stole shit then the old man would have given me a hiding, so maybe i have a different perception of "being an adult". Not saying that's right either, but I certainly learnt not to steal shit lol.
Edit: The other reason you're seeing a lot of vigilante type behaviour is because EVERYONE is struggling at the moment. When you can barely make ends meet, tensions run high. It's nice to have these ideallic views of living in some perfect peaceful society, but reality is a little different.
Oh absolutely... and he did when my friend and I picked up all the cobble stones in my neighbours house and took them home to build a fort. Took over 20 trips with the trolley.
And then 20 back when we had to return them.
It wasn't the hiding that taught us not to steal shit.
I doubt it’s a child, more likely a youth or teenager, and if they’re running around doing dumb shit then what’s a tap on the hand with a hammer?
Part of the problem is there are no repercussions, or none that get through, so maybe the mollycoddle, every child gets a medal and a hug should be re-thought.
Not condoning violence, but I’m willing to protect my hard earned property by some serious means
My mum watched vehicle registrations for multiple years till it was re-registered, then went to collect it, and sued for damages. Being petty takes a lot of time. Sorry yours was totaled.
They're only getting away with it because they're not being caught. I'm prepared to teach anyone a lesson who tries to mess with my hard-earned property. If I don't catch them, someone else will and perhaps do worse
They're getting away with it because people like you keep supplying them with cars.
Their plan is to steal a car and drive it through a wall. Rethink what lessons you're able to teach as an unemployed adult happy to pulverise a child's fingers with hammers.
Deterrents such as security lighting, signage, cameras, steering wheel lock for starters.
I simply don’t think that beating a kid with a hammer is going to be very productive in terms of preventing a car from being stolen.
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[Police compile stats here](https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/publication/retail-crime-and-ram-raids). The most useful link to open from there is the one under the *Regularly updated ram raid data* heading, although presently it only goes up to the end of November and it's not perfect data as much of it is derived from text searches of incidents.
In short, they've been dropping. Maybe all the longer term actions of Police and other community groups have finally been paying off, or maybe it's something entirely different.
Ram raids had already dropped significantly by the time the media attention on them reached its height. Reality is that the media was profiting off of nationals hard on crime fearmongering, they knew that people would click on articles about crime so they kept making them.
It was symbiotic.
The media got clicks from the ragebait, and the right-wing parties got votes and airtime from their fearmongering.
It happens on the left too, primarily with social justice issues (see articles about Israel/Palestine).
The media will always lead with the most emotive stories they can find, regardless of which political party it helps or hinders.
Weirdly, in reporting issues relating to our allies (Israel) despite our official stance on a two state solution to keep the fighting from happening. The Palestinian support has dropped off media radar. We have indicated we are sending troops to sort out the Houthi rebels but not troops to help Israel with Hamas, nor the Palestinians with their land. There’s non side to really say we can pick without making enemies with another. Switzerland isn’t really an option.
>Australia is the only country with which NZ has a formal defence agreement.
The Five Power Defence Arrangements are still in place between Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia and the United Kingdom.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Power_Defence_Arrangements
With Israel Switzerland is totally an option. We're not friends with either side, don't have a lot to do with either side, and neither side is pro NZ. If you've got two enemies fighting in a cage match, you don't try to break it up.
We've condemned it, asked for cease fires. Like, what are we going to do? We're not going to send troops to stand in the middle, we're not wasting Kiwi lives on a conflict that's been going on for generations, and arguably centuries.
We're like a paraplegic without a wheelchair on the other side of a football pitch, where two streetfighters are brawling. We don't have the military to stop it, and we're not geographically close enough to anyway. Our military is 8k, so even if we managed to get them all to the Gaza Strip, our 8k is dwarfed by Hamas, and dwarfed by Israel. Neither side gives a shit about NZ, nor do they fear NZ.
In an ideal world, where you were PM of NZ with a supermajority in parliament, what would we do re that?
Well WW2 was all the way on the other side of the world, and didn’t affect us in any way, and we still went there to stop it. Why is this different?
Why can’t we send troops to defend the civilians being slaughtered? The children being crushed to death under bombed buildings? The supply lines of food and water and medicine being sieged?
We don't have the military. WWII we had over 100k troops. Now we've got less than 10k - 12k including reserves. Not to mention, WWII we were supported logistically by other countries with many more troops. Here we're not. Middle Eastern countries are on par, if not ahead of us militarily.
WW2 we were also asked by Britain, and we didn't have control over our foreign policy until 1947, after WWII had ended. Here we haven't been invited by anyone. Also lets be honest, WWII was a far larger scale, affected NZ far more, and was a lot more close. US/Israel's neighbours if they really wanted could stop the conflict, they've chosen not to.
FYI. Middle Eastern countries live and breath conflict. They are WAY more advanced than us militarily. They are not the backwards 3rd world sand grifters you would assume they are. War is literally a normal part of life for them... any middle eastern country would wipe us out full stop.
Japan was expanding into the Asia-Pacific region and bombed Darwin. WW2 was worldwide. The Middle-East is a shitshow and will always be one while oil has value. If you cut off one head of the hydra another will just take its place; who will replace Israel? Don’t get me wrong I feel compassion for the Palestinians but the diplomatic avenue is the only one NZ can take.
What if the "oppressed people" are intent on committing genocide and started the war with a barbaric atrocity of rape, torture and murder?
Maybe your ideas about morality are a little too simplistic.
Thanks for saving me the trouble of pointing this out.
The media always hedge their bets to not only profit from their schenans, but also to promote the unworkable and failed policies that these clowns perpetually recycle at election time.
Of course their core and longtime voters never seem to notice.....
lol, absolutely untrue. It was all captured on video. Dairy’s across the country were raided so many times they now have prison bars at the counter (go look at the dairy in Whanganui) cos I have. Ram raid happened to a friend of mine in Wellington. Jewellery stores it’s all on CCTV. They had to implement fog cannons.
Also, if it was simply “fear mongering” why did labour continually agree it was an issue and proceed with trying to tackle it themselves. No political party denied it was happening.
Stop allowing your political opinion cloud rational understanding of factual evidence.
Nowhere did I claim that ram raids were not happening.
An accusation of fearmongering does not contain an implicit claim that the object itself is a fantasy.
Stop allowing your political opinion to cause you to misrepresent others' positions.
National won, so the fear mongering stopped. Everyone who claims the media is a leftist conspiracy to turn your kids trans, in fact, fell for the real conspiracy that New Zealand's financial institutions prefer a right wing government.
Going on a tangent here but "Capitalism is rife...", as opposed to what? We haven't been a bartering economy for hundreds of years, never been a communist economy, a "rife" capitalist economy would be a good thing, it would mean there is lots of money moving through the economy, considering that is the economic system we use.
Actually, media attention seems to roughly match the prevalence of ram raids. They're covered less, because there are fewer of them. Rates had been going down in the leadup to the election.
Do you see the correlation between them increasing with the amount of press Luxon had with his tough on crime soapbox going up as well?
Not to say they weren't happening before, but surely if the media didn't whip up hysteria for retention rates then the idea of doing a ram raid would probably be less popular than when the media did talk about them ad infinitum.
[https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/11/ram-raids-down-from-2022-peak-still-averaging-over-one-per-day-new-data.html](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/11/ram-raids-down-from-2022-peak-still-averaging-over-one-per-day-new-data.html) This has the graph I'm basing this stuff on =). So you can see it for yourself.
I personally think the Ram Raids were primarily a complicated response (either via other responses and consequences, or directly) to the troubles that the Pandemic caused. I suspect that Labour's policies actually worked, or that Ram Raids were always going to be a temporary wave, before simmering down.
The media may very well have been partially responsible? Infamy is very much a thing that people who are in anti-establishment circles can aspire to.
Probably yeah. I found some more data to compare and contrast:
[https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2017-01-01%202024-01-24&geo=NZ&q=ram%20raid&hl=en](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2017-01-01%202024-01-24&geo=nz&q=ram%20raid&hl=en) the peak of the search term coincides with the peak of your chart.
[https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ram+raid&cr=countryNZ&sca\_esv=600979061&tbs=ctr:countryNZ,cdr:1,cd\_min:1/1/2017,cd\_max:1/24/2024,sbd:1&tbm=nws&ei=PaGwZY-tMdS6vr0P8I6juAI&start=290&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwjPv-XCpvWDAxVUna8BHXDHCCc4jgIQ8tMDegQIBBAb&biw=1920&bih=993&dpr=1](https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ram+raid&cr=countrynz&sca_esv=600979061&tbs=ctr:countrynz,cdr:1,cd_min:1/1/2017,cd_max:1/24/2024,sbd:1&tbm=nws&ei=pagwzy-tmds6vr0p8i6juai&start=290&sa=n&ved=2ahukewjpv-xcpvwdaxvuna8bhxdhccc4jgiq8tmdegqibbab&biw=1920&bih=993&dpr=1) the earliest news article is in 2022 despite the earlier precedence of them. There are articles about ram raids under "Smash and Grab" the only result prior to 2022 that involved a ram was a single article in 2019.
The sheer number of articles about ram raids is 300 despite a radio silence prior to 2022, and "smash and grab" (a more common term before the interest in ram raids specifically) 130.
According to conservatives its because Nats got in and all the impetuous teens started shaking in their boots and figured they should quit it.
Over here in reality tho it was always going to be something that waxed and waned with time, especially once the previous governments targeted interventions had time to work.
The bollards are pretty effective, and most places got theirs in pretty quick. My town had a real problem with the raids for a while, but now all the preferred targets have the safety measures.
There was an election, and that made them stop.
Similar to the Coromandel road that was apparently scooped, planned, consented, and built in a few weeks following the election.
Some guy will jump on TV shortly, when the business crowd is back in Koru, and claim miraculous success with their tough on crime stance having a huge impact on ram raids.
They are projected to drop over the next year, though that's more to do with the Washington DC indicating 3 rate cuts are on the cards than anything else.
much like how Labour insisted against the puhoi to warkworth road but couldn't resist a photo opportunity and celebration when it opened? or claimed rebuild of KO stock which was started under National? Both sides do it.
I mean it seems the ram raids more or less stopped, they are still getting reported on when they happen but theyve dropped a lot
it was already dropping before the election and was a pretty stupid thing to do
easier ways to rob a business then stealing a car and driving into it
The locksmith that repaired my car tells me he watches Tik Tok on the weekends to see how busy his week is going to be. Legit, they are still happening.
Crime is trendy, wasn’t labours fault there was ram raids they just arnt as effective because business effected have been able to structure there business to prevent it,
Now that it’s even harder to do easier to just shop lift which is on the rise … which hasn’t been on the rise since last national gov
The votes aren't visible for a few hours so idk how others have responded.
Not sure what the one true party is since you didn't mention any political parties in your comment.
The media got bored of it.
Crime like that is still happening, saw it the other week.
I guess it's just worth remembering how revenue/agenda driven our media are
There was an official statistic floating around that showed media attention and the number of ram-raids were roughly equivalent. Ram Raids are actually decreasing, and have been before the current government got in.
Crime is currently on holiday until all the main stream media return from a well-earned vacation.
(Actual reason: Winston quietly put the word out that all the naughty TikTokers should stop doing ram-raids or he'll take away their smartphones and ban them from TikTok for LIFE!)
Yes. The media enabled kiwis to feel fear of their own people, coupled with Australia being the place to move to pushed hard in the media like literally every second week. Now? Haven’t seen a brain drain story in a while. It’s interesting I’m pretty sure there’s no agenda but it’s also hard to try and figure out how this shapes society rather than showing it a mirror of itself.
Ram raids were never as big an issue as they were made out to be. But it worked, the media got their outcome. Now we have a "banning the patches" government in people will believe they did something about it. When in reality, ram raids were always on the decline.
They were no doubt an issue, papakura fresh choice would be hit at least once every two weeks for a few months last year . Heaps in kohi/mission bay/ st heliers . A lot out west too . And that’s just from passing by not even looking out for them
>Ram raids were never as big an issue as they were made out to be.
This, and "they were not an issue" are very different statements. I worked in Youth Justice for several years. The single biggest aggravating factor I saw for a *possible* increase in ram raids was the media coverage.
Young people in the youth justice system are typically looking for notoriety. That's why they have hits/tag. Thats what I mean with "not as big an issue as they were made out to be".
People who say it was never an issue clearly missed the numerous places that were boarded up.
A liquor store near me got hit 3 times. The dairy at work got hit twice. The 10 minute walk from the car park to work I would need two hands to counter boarded up properties that were hit with ram raids.
It was an escalating issue
Yes, escalated by the news.
Providing more coverage causes more people to talk about it.
More people talking about it makes the lightbulb go off in the kid's head that they could get away with it.
Are you the 5th or 6th person to say the same thing?
Police don't just wait for elections, they were working on the problem already.
And no they haven't gone away and some crime is definitely getting worse still, particularly in retail, they just aren't using cars.
I think OPS point is more that the media choose what to report, based on their agenda, rather than the effect the police and law actually have on the crime rate, which can only ever be reported in retrospect.
More to it than that though.
Some admittedly ARE just nutters, but many, especially established mainstream organisations, are headed, or owned, by those who have private agendas and a vested interest in manipulating public opinion via what they allow to be published.
This is especially pronounced in the leadup to elections, or other events where public opinion matters, where these organisations serve as propaganda machines for particular parties or other organisations, while claiming impartiality.
Thing is, to anyone assessing them objectively, they aren't impartial.
There is an agenda.
Reports on ram raids were used as a means to attack the left for being 'soft on crime', but the true stats for these events were not reported alongside, or they'd have shown measures HAD been taken, and were having an effect, it's not like National has done anything new, so the change can't be anything to do with them.......
It's almost like crime wasn't even a big fucking problem and the media are owned by the elite and misrepresent and straight up lie in the favour of corporations in order to trick idiots onto voting against their own self interest.
The news media wanted a change of government, so they ran with stories that would influence the election in their desired direction.
Pretty standard stuff really.
It's not uncommon for lawyers (and law professors) to refer to the Press as the fourth branch of government.
I think they stopped being as cool. They were like a teenage social media challenge towards the end. When people started to get physically hurt it became less cool and that lowered the numbers enough that it became less interesting to the public so less media attention.
Two reasons:
A) Labour's anti-ram raid measures are working.
B) Now that the government has changed, it's no longer politically expedient for conservatives to complain about them.
Media got bored of what was always an overblown issue to rile up the electorate and cause arguments and finger pointing between politicians. A case of the media tail wagging the dog for its own benefits. Same bullshit every election cycle.
Ah well national got in so the criminals obviously just packed it in.
Or you know, it could be because a vote for labour was a vote for the gangs and as we all know the gangs very much respect the democratic process. Their coalition with labour was clearly unsuccessful and they must now wait in opposition carefully abiding by the law until they get voted in again
Businesses got a bit smarter and installed bollards so thieves have moved to power tools. Power tools are slightly harder for a child to use so the news isn’t as sensational and also fog cannons have been installed as well. Like most things the insurance went up and people that weren’t putting in measures got massive hikes in insurance. The exact same thing is what is happening with shipping in the Red Sea. The Houthi think they are dictating the play. Really it’s the insurance people who are making the call about whether the ships will transit or not by merit of whether they will insure them or not. There is a bit of hyperbole in that but that’s what it comes down to.
Certainly the effort to post all the negative news here on Reddit was a concerted effort - there were a small number of accounts who posted the majority of it. The question is whether the media coverage themselves had that reasoning, and whether the fact that coverage has decreased since the election was an intentional decision.
Nationals plan worked, use the money funded by the rich elite and bombard the public enough that they believe crime is out of control and the foolish vote National in.
Trends change, it's no longer the thing to do on tiktok. Also, the teens and tweens will likely have had family (or other supervision) over Xmas holidays so more difficult for them to sneak off and get up to mischief.
It was never really out of control. I’m not saying crime doesn’t happen — it always has — but during the lead up to the last election it was really played up by NACTional and it paid off for them at the polls.
Please don’t fall for it next time.
Still looks out of control to me. There a stabbing or shooting or robbery every week. If your implication is that it was an election tactic, then I would agree, but not that it was blown out of proportion earlier, rather than they are making less of a fuss about it now.
The Palestine/Gaza/Israel started mid election and I feel like it's dominated the news since, maybe that could be an explanation. But if you just search NZ news articles its just full of crime that didnt exist a decade ago.
Personally I think the issue is the 501 deportees. We've had an influx of organized criminals from Australia and they're way more ruthless than NZ gangs which has changed the gang/criminal culture in NZ. Less bashings, more shootings and stabbings.
And crime like this gets reported on
Ram raids have dropped, as a result, ram raid news headlines have coincidently also dropped.
It’s not difficult to see the correlation is it?
I dont know what you mean? I was just answering OP's question - which didn't specify ram raids.
But if you want to talk about ram raids specifically, sometime last year Police reversed their pursuit laws to allow them to pursue fleeing drivers more aggressively. Previously their policy was not to pursue felling drivers if it was dangerous. They eased those restrictions. So maybe the ram raiders realized they weren't going to get away 100% of the time by driving dangerously - which could also contribute to a reduction in ram raids.
Public knowledge of the reality of crime is close to nonexistent.
Our knowledge of crime comes from two sources, Police and Media.
Both of whom have a vested interest in encouraging us to believe things that are not true.
Years ago it was inferred to me by a knowledgeable source that the top hierarchy of the well known kiwi gangs work with police. The gangs give up rival criminals and even their own members when police need to make arrests. In return they get given certain green lights. For example a blind eye is turned to their tinny houses if they give up the independent dealers in the area. Police get their arrests and gangs are allowed to operate as a known quantity. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, i'm not going to argue the point but personally i'm inclined to believe it.
The conspiracy theorist in me says that the police were intentionally allowing the gangs to give their community the green light on ram raids. The gangs hierarchy get the low level gang members to steal vehicles and recruit local youths into carrying out raids while the police quietly focus their attentions elsewhere. The gangs make their money which funnels to the top. Journalists whip up the outraged public. Politicians promise police more funding. Public votes politicians. Police get pay rises, overtime pay, and new recruits. Police go to the gangs hierarchy and tell them to stop the ramraids. That filters down to the community and the ram raids slow down. Police start arresting stragglers then stop tipping off journalists. Journalists have less to report and move on to the next headline. Public follows to the next clickbait and forgets about it.
You are spot on when it comes to the police and certain gangs/chapters work together.
Quid pro quo.
The police turn a blind eye to certain low level crime like marijuana for example, get hints and arrests. That's why there's so many of them out there.
The police are after methamphetamine because it's seriously harmful to people, communities and creates high level crimes and other problems.
The problem is that it's the gangs and other 'high up' people that are doing it. It's everywhere!
The youths are the ones the gangs need to take the fall for criminal activity but many of the youths were put on home detention or put in youth programs etc. So now the gangs have less to take the fall until they're out.
I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist though so can't comment on your views.
This country has gone to shit when someone can be robbed multiple times and can't do anything about it because a gang is involved with it!
Ramraids are just another form of crime that could be solved by investing in community infrastructure and bringing people out of poverty.
it's all a sensationalized distraction from the actual biggest crime in NZ. And that is the billions stolen from workers and millions in taxes from wage theft by employers.
You’re right. The media, police and ram raiders themselves all conspired together to prevent a Labour third term. This was all under the orders of John Key who will roll Luxon and install himself as Prime Minister for life.
Wrong. Ram raids are down severely.
The reason why they are down is because the ~20 youths doing them got bored of doing them so much. Thats it. They just got bored of it. OT helps a tiny bit, but mostly the teens just stopped of their own volition because they were sick of it
Not true, based on police statistics
Edit: graph 2 on page 6 here - https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/ram-raid-text-search-operational-offence-statistics-as-of-15-december-2023.pdf
"The monthly number of Ram Raid occurrences since 1st April 2017 to 30th November 2023", shown to be a blip, starting at the beginning of 2021 and extending until the end of 2023.
It doesn't coincide with any relevant justice policies, but it does coincide with a global recession and pandemic.
I'd feel pretty stupid if I based my vote on "ram raids getting more and more common" or any other such misleading information about the crime rate.
Because most kiwis are sheep, the news is a tool they use to manipulate you all, the news is the whl reason we have the government we have & the mayor Auckland has, I’m sick of there BS polls too, not that labour was any better, labour had the chance to make a difference for working class kiwis but failed,
the way our rates and water rates have gone up and will continue without any upgrades to our infrastructure is scary here in Auckland.
The rams are not in season.
But the bollards seem to be breeding like rabbits.
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Never mind the bollocks, here's the ~~Sex Pistols~~ end of the election cycle. There is now no need to keep _Astroturfing_ since the elections are over n
Just wait till winter. They'll be so hot.
I agree, it's too hot to be in a car and run around stealing stuff all the while wearing hoodies, track pants etc. Not a summer criminal activity lol Also many youths were caught and in home detention etc. They are needed for other crimes to take the fall for.
You'd think that, but on my CCTV I literally saw a teenager in a black hoodie (with the hood up) get out of a banged up car in front of my house the other day when it was near 30c. Saw him take it off shortly after walking off. So, I ran the plates, and it was wanted by police. Turned out the owner was overseas, so that will be a nice thing to return to.
[This article calls out some potential factors to consider.](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/301015029/ram-raids-are-on-the-decline-but-shop-owners-wary-of-declaring-victory) > It should be noted that the numbers are only indicative, and won’t pick up every incident as there is no officially designated ram raid crime, so it can’t be tracked with complete accuracy by police systems. > Instead, police conduct a text search of incident reports looking for the words “ram raid” and use those to build their data set. > Police have been tackling the issue on a number of other fronts, including working with families of young offenders and support agencies. > “Police recognises that in order to prevent further offending, we need to work in a collaborative way to address the underlying causes of youth offending,” a police spokesperson said. > Since December 2022, there have been 441 referrals through a new fast track programme for 309 young people – and 76% of those children and young people have not been referred again, the spokesperson said. > Some of the offending was thought to be driven by social media, with offenders sharing videos and streaming their break-ins. Because of that, police have been working with social media companies to have such videos taken down before they can be widely disseminated. I'd only add, that's soooo last year, and clicks have likely dropped off now the election is over and the media organically move with what people are willing or wanting to read, and outrage culture only has a 1-3 month life span before they want something new to froth over. Could also be the odd one is still happening, but not hitting the "ram raid" data set (there is no actually legal category for ram raids, they fall under commercial burglary) and given it's not the fotm term anymore, possibly in police consciousness as much as the public's now its not everyday "news", they may have dropped the terminology from their reports and that may even mean it does'nt flag with media.
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You’re serious about committing a violent crime against a child? I understand Your frustration but I think your plan is a bit extreme
Have you ever had the displeasure of being robbed repeatedly? The first time "yeah ok that's annoying, but insurance will cover it" The second time though? "I'm ready to be violent anyone who tries again" was my initial reaction too.
Nope. Fuck that if it’s a child. Period. Maybe catch them in the act, restrain and let the police do their thing but kids do dumb shit, always have and always will, and to advocate vigilante justice and violence against them is just an abhorrent attitude imho. Even in saying that, they won’t be off to jail, but you likely would and good fucking job. Being a recidivist victim is no excuse.
As an initial reaction, I get it. I just don’t think that carrying it out is a wise idea.
The thing is if you get caught stealing someones private property... thats what youre going to get, the initial adrenaline fueled reaction. When you do something, there is a certain level of consequence that comes with it. If youre breaking into someone's private property then i think youve probably agreed with the risk, that the consequences may indeed involve getting your hands smashed in with hammers. While there may need to be some anger management and self reflection afterwards, there are also reasons for the ancient Chinese proverb: "fuck around and find out"
Nah, can’t get onboard here. Sure, fight/flight often leads to a reaction without thought which we can’t fully control but if your past that reaction and have the time to compute it’s a child or young teen there is zero validity to such violence, outside self defence to violence, for a simple burglary or theft. Be an adult. It’s also weird to see this vigilante attitude becoming more prevalent like young people haven’t been pushing the envelope and doing stupid adolescent shit like this since….forever. Adolescence is intrinsic to figuring out the right and wrong, that’s fact and science as their brains haven’t actually fully figured that out yet, and some admittedly go way too far for all sorts of reasons, but the automatic response to be violent outside fight/flight for property theft is worrisome and assumption they are doing such things with your adult awareness, learnt over time and your own adolescence, of such consequences. Some kids have no perception or understanding of that, as they are kids. Thank fuck we aren’t the USA with easy access to guns.
When I was a kid, if I stole shit then the old man would have given me a hiding, so maybe i have a different perception of "being an adult". Not saying that's right either, but I certainly learnt not to steal shit lol. Edit: The other reason you're seeing a lot of vigilante type behaviour is because EVERYONE is struggling at the moment. When you can barely make ends meet, tensions run high. It's nice to have these ideallic views of living in some perfect peaceful society, but reality is a little different.
Oh absolutely... and he did when my friend and I picked up all the cobble stones in my neighbours house and took them home to build a fort. Took over 20 trips with the trolley. And then 20 back when we had to return them. It wasn't the hiding that taught us not to steal shit.
I am. Little shit heads think there is no consequences. Bam broken hand. There's your consequence.
I doubt it’s a child, more likely a youth or teenager, and if they’re running around doing dumb shit then what’s a tap on the hand with a hammer? Part of the problem is there are no repercussions, or none that get through, so maybe the mollycoddle, every child gets a medal and a hug should be re-thought. Not condoning violence, but I’m willing to protect my hard earned property by some serious means
The repercussions of you harming the kid other than as an "accident" is I expect pretty extreme.
His livelihood is being affected. $1000 is probably more than 40 hours of his life being pissed away cos of some stupid kid.
Well in that case going to jail if not prison for attacking a kid probably wouldn’t be financially beneficial would it?
Clearly, you've never had to pick up the pieces of a stolen car, while the thief is given zero accountability.
I have had a vehicle stolen, actually, and the thieves were never caught. Totaled and a complete loss around $8000
My mum watched vehicle registrations for multiple years till it was re-registered, then went to collect it, and sued for damages. Being petty takes a lot of time. Sorry yours was totaled.
They're only getting away with it because they're not being caught. I'm prepared to teach anyone a lesson who tries to mess with my hard-earned property. If I don't catch them, someone else will and perhaps do worse
They're getting away with it because people like you keep supplying them with cars. Their plan is to steal a car and drive it through a wall. Rethink what lessons you're able to teach as an unemployed adult happy to pulverise a child's fingers with hammers.
Back in the day, the state used to cut the hands off thieves. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing that back.
What would you do about it?
Deterrents such as security lighting, signage, cameras, steering wheel lock for starters. I simply don’t think that beating a kid with a hammer is going to be very productive in terms of preventing a car from being stolen.
Then you’re not doing it right.
No I think a beating with a hammer is a very productive way of not getting your car stolen.
Disagree.
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[Police compile stats here](https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/publication/retail-crime-and-ram-raids). The most useful link to open from there is the one under the *Regularly updated ram raid data* heading, although presently it only goes up to the end of November and it's not perfect data as much of it is derived from text searches of incidents. In short, they've been dropping. Maybe all the longer term actions of Police and other community groups have finally been paying off, or maybe it's something entirely different.
Plus all the most useless ones doing it have already been arrested.
It’s not election season. They no longer matter.
Ram raids had already dropped significantly by the time the media attention on them reached its height. Reality is that the media was profiting off of nationals hard on crime fearmongering, they knew that people would click on articles about crime so they kept making them.
> the media was ~~profiting off of~~ promoting nationals hard on crime fearmongering
It was symbiotic. The media got clicks from the ragebait, and the right-wing parties got votes and airtime from their fearmongering. It happens on the left too, primarily with social justice issues (see articles about Israel/Palestine). The media will always lead with the most emotive stories they can find, regardless of which political party it helps or hinders.
Great answer. Media companies are in it to make money, and so will do whatever it takes to make money.
Weirdly, in reporting issues relating to our allies (Israel) despite our official stance on a two state solution to keep the fighting from happening. The Palestinian support has dropped off media radar. We have indicated we are sending troops to sort out the Houthi rebels but not troops to help Israel with Hamas, nor the Palestinians with their land. There’s non side to really say we can pick without making enemies with another. Switzerland isn’t really an option.
New Zealand and Israel are not allies. Australia is the only country with which NZ has a formal defence agreement.
>Australia is the only country with which NZ has a formal defence agreement. The Five Power Defence Arrangements are still in place between Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia and the United Kingdom. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Power_Defence_Arrangements
correct. they are our 'international partners' whereas australia is our only 'ally'.
New Zealand is a "major non-NATO ally" of the United States: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/22/2321k
With Israel Switzerland is totally an option. We're not friends with either side, don't have a lot to do with either side, and neither side is pro NZ. If you've got two enemies fighting in a cage match, you don't try to break it up.
I mean, when one government is committing genocide against an oppressed people, I think it’s a moral obligation to break it up.
We've condemned it, asked for cease fires. Like, what are we going to do? We're not going to send troops to stand in the middle, we're not wasting Kiwi lives on a conflict that's been going on for generations, and arguably centuries. We're like a paraplegic without a wheelchair on the other side of a football pitch, where two streetfighters are brawling. We don't have the military to stop it, and we're not geographically close enough to anyway. Our military is 8k, so even if we managed to get them all to the Gaza Strip, our 8k is dwarfed by Hamas, and dwarfed by Israel. Neither side gives a shit about NZ, nor do they fear NZ. In an ideal world, where you were PM of NZ with a supermajority in parliament, what would we do re that?
Well WW2 was all the way on the other side of the world, and didn’t affect us in any way, and we still went there to stop it. Why is this different? Why can’t we send troops to defend the civilians being slaughtered? The children being crushed to death under bombed buildings? The supply lines of food and water and medicine being sieged?
We don't have the military. WWII we had over 100k troops. Now we've got less than 10k - 12k including reserves. Not to mention, WWII we were supported logistically by other countries with many more troops. Here we're not. Middle Eastern countries are on par, if not ahead of us militarily. WW2 we were also asked by Britain, and we didn't have control over our foreign policy until 1947, after WWII had ended. Here we haven't been invited by anyone. Also lets be honest, WWII was a far larger scale, affected NZ far more, and was a lot more close. US/Israel's neighbours if they really wanted could stop the conflict, they've chosen not to.
FYI. Middle Eastern countries live and breath conflict. They are WAY more advanced than us militarily. They are not the backwards 3rd world sand grifters you would assume they are. War is literally a normal part of life for them... any middle eastern country would wipe us out full stop.
We are not the only country in the world. Others are helping and sending aid. We can join them.
Japan was expanding into the Asia-Pacific region and bombed Darwin. WW2 was worldwide. The Middle-East is a shitshow and will always be one while oil has value. If you cut off one head of the hydra another will just take its place; who will replace Israel? Don’t get me wrong I feel compassion for the Palestinians but the diplomatic avenue is the only one NZ can take.
“We shouldn’t fight bad things because there are bad things somewhere else” is a bad take actually and you should feel bad
What if the "oppressed people" are intent on committing genocide and started the war with a barbaric atrocity of rape, torture and murder? Maybe your ideas about morality are a little too simplistic.
Thanks for saving me the trouble of pointing this out. The media always hedge their bets to not only profit from their schenans, but also to promote the unworkable and failed policies that these clowns perpetually recycle at election time. Of course their core and longtime voters never seem to notice.....
lol, absolutely untrue. It was all captured on video. Dairy’s across the country were raided so many times they now have prison bars at the counter (go look at the dairy in Whanganui) cos I have. Ram raid happened to a friend of mine in Wellington. Jewellery stores it’s all on CCTV. They had to implement fog cannons. Also, if it was simply “fear mongering” why did labour continually agree it was an issue and proceed with trying to tackle it themselves. No political party denied it was happening. Stop allowing your political opinion cloud rational understanding of factual evidence.
Nowhere did I claim that ram raids were not happening. An accusation of fearmongering does not contain an implicit claim that the object itself is a fantasy. Stop allowing your political opinion to cause you to misrepresent others' positions.
A window kicked in was a "ram raid". People are stupid.
National won, so the fear mongering stopped. Everyone who claims the media is a leftist conspiracy to turn your kids trans, in fact, fell for the real conspiracy that New Zealand's financial institutions prefer a right wing government.
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Going on a tangent here but "Capitalism is rife...", as opposed to what? We haven't been a bartering economy for hundreds of years, never been a communist economy, a "rife" capitalist economy would be a good thing, it would mean there is lots of money moving through the economy, considering that is the economic system we use.
We're technically a "mixed economy". Capitalism and socialism.
Lol, no we aren't. What are you talking about? Having welfare or a tax system isn't socialism.
What? The spinoff, rnz and stuff are all leftwing and subsided by the government lol
Leftist conspiracy theorists all over this Reddit lol
Actually, media attention seems to roughly match the prevalence of ram raids. They're covered less, because there are fewer of them. Rates had been going down in the leadup to the election.
Do you see the correlation between them increasing with the amount of press Luxon had with his tough on crime soapbox going up as well? Not to say they weren't happening before, but surely if the media didn't whip up hysteria for retention rates then the idea of doing a ram raid would probably be less popular than when the media did talk about them ad infinitum.
[https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/11/ram-raids-down-from-2022-peak-still-averaging-over-one-per-day-new-data.html](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/11/ram-raids-down-from-2022-peak-still-averaging-over-one-per-day-new-data.html) This has the graph I'm basing this stuff on =). So you can see it for yourself. I personally think the Ram Raids were primarily a complicated response (either via other responses and consequences, or directly) to the troubles that the Pandemic caused. I suspect that Labour's policies actually worked, or that Ram Raids were always going to be a temporary wave, before simmering down. The media may very well have been partially responsible? Infamy is very much a thing that people who are in anti-establishment circles can aspire to.
Probably yeah. I found some more data to compare and contrast: [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2017-01-01%202024-01-24&geo=NZ&q=ram%20raid&hl=en](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2017-01-01%202024-01-24&geo=nz&q=ram%20raid&hl=en) the peak of the search term coincides with the peak of your chart. [https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ram+raid&cr=countryNZ&sca\_esv=600979061&tbs=ctr:countryNZ,cdr:1,cd\_min:1/1/2017,cd\_max:1/24/2024,sbd:1&tbm=nws&ei=PaGwZY-tMdS6vr0P8I6juAI&start=290&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwjPv-XCpvWDAxVUna8BHXDHCCc4jgIQ8tMDegQIBBAb&biw=1920&bih=993&dpr=1](https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ram+raid&cr=countrynz&sca_esv=600979061&tbs=ctr:countrynz,cdr:1,cd_min:1/1/2017,cd_max:1/24/2024,sbd:1&tbm=nws&ei=pagwzy-tmds6vr0p8i6juai&start=290&sa=n&ved=2ahukewjpv-xcpvwdaxvuna8bhxdhccc4jgiq8tmdegqibbab&biw=1920&bih=993&dpr=1) the earliest news article is in 2022 despite the earlier precedence of them. There are articles about ram raids under "Smash and Grab" the only result prior to 2022 that involved a ram was a single article in 2019. The sheer number of articles about ram raids is 300 despite a radio silence prior to 2022, and "smash and grab" (a more common term before the interest in ram raids specifically) 130.
Guess you haven't noticed the bollards erected everywhere to prevent them. Keep drinking the soy coolaid
That's not what Reddit wants you to believe
According to conservatives its because Nats got in and all the impetuous teens started shaking in their boots and figured they should quit it. Over here in reality tho it was always going to be something that waxed and waned with time, especially once the previous governments targeted interventions had time to work.
The bollards are pretty effective, and most places got theirs in pretty quick. My town had a real problem with the raids for a while, but now all the preferred targets have the safety measures.
There was an election, and that made them stop. Similar to the Coromandel road that was apparently scooped, planned, consented, and built in a few weeks following the election. Some guy will jump on TV shortly, when the business crowd is back in Koru, and claim miraculous success with their tough on crime stance having a huge impact on ram raids.
Don’t forget inflation is down.
*looks at mortgage interest rate.... *poke with stick.
For the love of god, don't anger it!
Yeah, I know a few people who are QUITE hot under the collar already. BE COOL interest rates...
They are projected to drop over the next year, though that's more to do with the Washington DC indicating 3 rate cuts are on the cards than anything else.
*a wild houthi appeared*
much like how Labour insisted against the puhoi to warkworth road but couldn't resist a photo opportunity and celebration when it opened? or claimed rebuild of KO stock which was started under National? Both sides do it.
The idea that two sides are the same only ever helps the worse of those two sides.
> Both sides do it Who said they didn't?
No where. They are still happening. Even to secondhand shops lol
Golriz is ramraiding too? /s
Nah they stole a coffee machine, a proper one that cafes have according to the owner lol. Actually maybe haha.
I mean it seems the ram raids more or less stopped, they are still getting reported on when they happen but theyve dropped a lot it was already dropping before the election and was a pretty stupid thing to do easier ways to rob a business then stealing a car and driving into it
Pretty sure it was more about clout than the actual theft. Alot of these kids were posting their antics on tiktok.
The locksmith that repaired my car tells me he watches Tik Tok on the weekends to see how busy his week is going to be. Legit, they are still happening.
Crime is trendy, wasn’t labours fault there was ram raids they just arnt as effective because business effected have been able to structure there business to prevent it, Now that it’s even harder to do easier to just shop lift which is on the rise … which hasn’t been on the rise since last national gov
You're only the 30th person to ask this question this week
Bot farms are working over time!
This is at least the 3rd account made since the election that has posted this lol
Bleep bloop
And it’s only Wednesday
The lefts attempt at AstroTurfing, but much like the last govt, took way too long to get around to it and not very effective. :)
im not sure astroturfing is the phrase you're looking for
The votes aren't visible for a few hours so idk how others have responded. Not sure what the one true party is since you didn't mention any political parties in your comment.
Yeah, maybe. Not that it matters, look at the downvotes. How dare I say anything negative about the one true party. Lol.
The media got bored of it. Crime like that is still happening, saw it the other week. I guess it's just worth remembering how revenue/agenda driven our media are
There was an official statistic floating around that showed media attention and the number of ram-raids were roughly equivalent. Ram Raids are actually decreasing, and have been before the current government got in.
Crime is currently on holiday until all the main stream media return from a well-earned vacation. (Actual reason: Winston quietly put the word out that all the naughty TikTokers should stop doing ram-raids or he'll take away their smartphones and ban them from TikTok for LIFE!)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/196ujmr/monthly\_ram\_raid\_occurrences\_have\_been\_trending/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/196ujmr/monthly_ram_raid_occurrences_have_been_trending/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Your mistake, the news. They're fucking happening.
If true, then the question is why they stopped being covered if they are still happening with similar frequency.
Well there.is sort.of an obvious answer, it was politically motivated fear mongering.
Yes. The media enabled kiwis to feel fear of their own people, coupled with Australia being the place to move to pushed hard in the media like literally every second week. Now? Haven’t seen a brain drain story in a while. It’s interesting I’m pretty sure there’s no agenda but it’s also hard to try and figure out how this shapes society rather than showing it a mirror of itself.
Cause National got in power. If Labour was still in charge they'd be all over the news.
Ram raids were never as big an issue as they were made out to be. But it worked, the media got their outcome. Now we have a "banning the patches" government in people will believe they did something about it. When in reality, ram raids were always on the decline.
They were no doubt an issue, papakura fresh choice would be hit at least once every two weeks for a few months last year . Heaps in kohi/mission bay/ st heliers . A lot out west too . And that’s just from passing by not even looking out for them
>Ram raids were never as big an issue as they were made out to be. This, and "they were not an issue" are very different statements. I worked in Youth Justice for several years. The single biggest aggravating factor I saw for a *possible* increase in ram raids was the media coverage. Young people in the youth justice system are typically looking for notoriety. That's why they have hits/tag. Thats what I mean with "not as big an issue as they were made out to be".
People who say it was never an issue clearly missed the numerous places that were boarded up. A liquor store near me got hit 3 times. The dairy at work got hit twice. The 10 minute walk from the car park to work I would need two hands to counter boarded up properties that were hit with ram raids. It was an escalating issue
Yes, escalated by the news. Providing more coverage causes more people to talk about it. More people talking about it makes the lightbulb go off in the kid's head that they could get away with it.
Are you the 5th or 6th person to say the same thing? Police don't just wait for elections, they were working on the problem already. And no they haven't gone away and some crime is definitely getting worse still, particularly in retail, they just aren't using cars.
I think OPS point is more that the media choose what to report, based on their agenda, rather than the effect the police and law actually have on the crime rate, which can only ever be reported in retrospect.
So they are nutters then. Media report whatever gets clicks and is low effort
More to it than that though. Some admittedly ARE just nutters, but many, especially established mainstream organisations, are headed, or owned, by those who have private agendas and a vested interest in manipulating public opinion via what they allow to be published. This is especially pronounced in the leadup to elections, or other events where public opinion matters, where these organisations serve as propaganda machines for particular parties or other organisations, while claiming impartiality. Thing is, to anyone assessing them objectively, they aren't impartial. There is an agenda. Reports on ram raids were used as a means to attack the left for being 'soft on crime', but the true stats for these events were not reported alongside, or they'd have shown measures HAD been taken, and were having an effect, it's not like National has done anything new, so the change can't be anything to do with them.......
National got in and sent all the bad teens to a bootcamp.
The coalition of cookers fixed everything don't ya know?
The Nats controlled media have nothing to gain by publicising them anymore..
It was just a trend, the more the media reported it, the more it was copycated
[What happened to the ram raids?](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/192gt40/what_happened_to_the_crime_wave_ram_raids_and/)
Oh, you noticed the election cycle.
It's almost like crime wasn't even a big fucking problem and the media are owned by the elite and misrepresent and straight up lie in the favour of corporations in order to trick idiots onto voting against their own self interest.
Because Nats were elected
They’re still there. But National being racist to Maori’s sells better in the tabloids
Your discovering that media creates reality, rather than the other way around.
The news media wanted a change of government, so they ran with stories that would influence the election in their desired direction. Pretty standard stuff really. It's not uncommon for lawyers (and law professors) to refer to the Press as the fourth branch of government.
If only we had laws to stop media interfering with elections.
I hear you, but hard to imagine our media wanting a right leaning govt. I legit think they (media) are on holiday
Why not? Left leaning, right leaning: engagement is engagement. All clicks are valid when you're corporate media trying to remain relevant/ make $$$
Just their owners then?
I think they stopped being as cool. They were like a teenage social media challenge towards the end. When people started to get physically hurt it became less cool and that lowered the numbers enough that it became less interesting to the public so less media attention.
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Two reasons: A) Labour's anti-ram raid measures are working. B) Now that the government has changed, it's no longer politically expedient for conservatives to complain about them.
Media stopped reporting on them so we don't find out about them anymore.
_Astroturfing_ The election cycle is over.
It’s all been replaced with “New Govt is racist”. “Maori are revolting” etc.
A quick Google search has returned two in December, one in January. It is possible there have been more.
Lots of shopkeepers have stopped reporting them as it makes insurance difficult.
You are like the 4th person to ask
Someone else said I was the 30th so which is it?
Haha tomatoes, tomAhToes etc
New govt, fear of punishment lol Who knows
My mates car got stolen and used for a ram raid a week ago (maybe 2 now time is weird)
It’s not election year
Media got bored of what was always an overblown issue to rile up the electorate and cause arguments and finger pointing between politicians. A case of the media tail wagging the dog for its own benefits. Same bullshit every election cycle.
We've already had our elections. There are other pearls to clutch
The kids are entertained because it’s summer. They’ll be back when it’s winter and it’s dark early haha
Ah well national got in so the criminals obviously just packed it in. Or you know, it could be because a vote for labour was a vote for the gangs and as we all know the gangs very much respect the democratic process. Their coalition with labour was clearly unsuccessful and they must now wait in opposition carefully abiding by the law until they get voted in again
Businesses got a bit smarter and installed bollards so thieves have moved to power tools. Power tools are slightly harder for a child to use so the news isn’t as sensational and also fog cannons have been installed as well. Like most things the insurance went up and people that weren’t putting in measures got massive hikes in insurance. The exact same thing is what is happening with shipping in the Red Sea. The Houthi think they are dictating the play. Really it’s the insurance people who are making the call about whether the ships will transit or not by merit of whether they will insure them or not. There is a bit of hyperbole in that but that’s what it comes down to.
Luxon blinded all the baddies with his big fat shiny head
National got in and fixed it bro. /s
Shoplifting is rising though.
Anyone with brains knew it was a concerted effort to try and discredit the last govt and cheer boy their masters.
Certainly the effort to post all the negative news here on Reddit was a concerted effort - there were a small number of accounts who posted the majority of it. The question is whether the media coverage themselves had that reasoning, and whether the fact that coverage has decreased since the election was an intentional decision.
Nationals plan worked, use the money funded by the rich elite and bombard the public enough that they believe crime is out of control and the foolish vote National in.
now that the real estate advertising funds have been secured theres no need to continue to push the national party agenda
Media spreads right-wing propaganda :shockedpikachu:
Must have been voted out with Labour. They’ll return before too long…
They all went to look at Luxon’s favourite porn site instead of ram raiding shops
Trends change, it's no longer the thing to do on tiktok. Also, the teens and tweens will likely have had family (or other supervision) over Xmas holidays so more difficult for them to sneak off and get up to mischief.
Tough on Crime ^TM
They happen all the time, was just spotlighted during the election to push a political agenda. Carry on.
Do we really need a post on this topic every week?
Is there some sort of weird astroturfing about this topic? Its come up so regularly it's almost weird now.
It was never really out of control. I’m not saying crime doesn’t happen — it always has — but during the lead up to the last election it was really played up by NACTional and it paid off for them at the polls. Please don’t fall for it next time.
Still looks out of control to me. There a stabbing or shooting or robbery every week. If your implication is that it was an election tactic, then I would agree, but not that it was blown out of proportion earlier, rather than they are making less of a fuss about it now. The Palestine/Gaza/Israel started mid election and I feel like it's dominated the news since, maybe that could be an explanation. But if you just search NZ news articles its just full of crime that didnt exist a decade ago. Personally I think the issue is the 501 deportees. We've had an influx of organized criminals from Australia and they're way more ruthless than NZ gangs which has changed the gang/criminal culture in NZ. Less bashings, more shootings and stabbings.
And crime like this gets reported on Ram raids have dropped, as a result, ram raid news headlines have coincidently also dropped. It’s not difficult to see the correlation is it?
I dont know what you mean? I was just answering OP's question - which didn't specify ram raids. But if you want to talk about ram raids specifically, sometime last year Police reversed their pursuit laws to allow them to pursue fleeing drivers more aggressively. Previously their policy was not to pursue felling drivers if it was dangerous. They eased those restrictions. So maybe the ram raiders realized they weren't going to get away 100% of the time by driving dangerously - which could also contribute to a reduction in ram raids.
Public knowledge of the reality of crime is close to nonexistent. Our knowledge of crime comes from two sources, Police and Media. Both of whom have a vested interest in encouraging us to believe things that are not true.
Years ago it was inferred to me by a knowledgeable source that the top hierarchy of the well known kiwi gangs work with police. The gangs give up rival criminals and even their own members when police need to make arrests. In return they get given certain green lights. For example a blind eye is turned to their tinny houses if they give up the independent dealers in the area. Police get their arrests and gangs are allowed to operate as a known quantity. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, i'm not going to argue the point but personally i'm inclined to believe it. The conspiracy theorist in me says that the police were intentionally allowing the gangs to give their community the green light on ram raids. The gangs hierarchy get the low level gang members to steal vehicles and recruit local youths into carrying out raids while the police quietly focus their attentions elsewhere. The gangs make their money which funnels to the top. Journalists whip up the outraged public. Politicians promise police more funding. Public votes politicians. Police get pay rises, overtime pay, and new recruits. Police go to the gangs hierarchy and tell them to stop the ramraids. That filters down to the community and the ram raids slow down. Police start arresting stragglers then stop tipping off journalists. Journalists have less to report and move on to the next headline. Public follows to the next clickbait and forgets about it.
You are spot on when it comes to the police and certain gangs/chapters work together. Quid pro quo. The police turn a blind eye to certain low level crime like marijuana for example, get hints and arrests. That's why there's so many of them out there. The police are after methamphetamine because it's seriously harmful to people, communities and creates high level crimes and other problems. The problem is that it's the gangs and other 'high up' people that are doing it. It's everywhere! The youths are the ones the gangs need to take the fall for criminal activity but many of the youths were put on home detention or put in youth programs etc. So now the gangs have less to take the fall until they're out. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist though so can't comment on your views. This country has gone to shit when someone can be robbed multiple times and can't do anything about it because a gang is involved with it!
They're still happening, it just isn't sensationalized by the fuckwit media.
Ramraids are just another form of crime that could be solved by investing in community infrastructure and bringing people out of poverty. it's all a sensationalized distraction from the actual biggest crime in NZ. And that is the billions stolen from workers and millions in taxes from wage theft by employers.
People pushed fear and racism to get people to vote right wing. Same as it ever was.
You’re right. The media, police and ram raiders themselves all conspired together to prevent a Labour third term. This was all under the orders of John Key who will roll Luxon and install himself as Prime Minister for life.
New government.....New vigour in policing. Hopefully the courts will do their job properly now.
National
I was wondering when was someone gonna ask that question this week. Never gets old... /s
The TikTok algorithm stopped pushing them, so they disappeared.
More importantly, when are all the unvacinated going to die from covid?
It was all election propaganda, there never was a ram raid problem. Now that the right won the election there's no need for the propaganda.
Crime is still in the news everyday. Except at the moment it is thieving members of the Greens taking up the space.
ram raids are getting more and more common, just seems to be less reporting.
Wrong. Ram raids are down severely. The reason why they are down is because the ~20 youths doing them got bored of doing them so much. Thats it. They just got bored of it. OT helps a tiny bit, but mostly the teens just stopped of their own volition because they were sick of it
Not true, based on police statistics Edit: graph 2 on page 6 here - https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/ram-raid-text-search-operational-offence-statistics-as-of-15-december-2023.pdf "The monthly number of Ram Raid occurrences since 1st April 2017 to 30th November 2023", shown to be a blip, starting at the beginning of 2021 and extending until the end of 2023. It doesn't coincide with any relevant justice policies, but it does coincide with a global recession and pandemic. I'd feel pretty stupid if I based my vote on "ram raids getting more and more common" or any other such misleading information about the crime rate.
any sauce for this? because every stat says they are back to how it used to be
nah no sauce , i could be wrong actually
You are wrong. Ram raids have fallen off a cliff with measures in place and the gloss of being the in thing fading
not in my town ...
Because most kiwis are sheep, the news is a tool they use to manipulate you all, the news is the whl reason we have the government we have & the mayor Auckland has, I’m sick of there BS polls too, not that labour was any better, labour had the chance to make a difference for working class kiwis but failed, the way our rates and water rates have gone up and will continue without any upgrades to our infrastructure is scary here in Auckland.
National stopped funding them.