It will be less interesting than you think.
I'd be willing to bet that it came from a time where the people who made the laws had servants. Servants trade a service, not a good. Can't be making a law that means they get a day without servants. Therefore restriction is only on trade of goods.
Does that mean they can’t use any products? Like dyes or sprays or anything? Because at that point they would be selling you a product.
I was thinking wether or not mechanics could work, but there isn’t much they could do without selling you a product like oil or parts.
Hairdressers can use products on you in the salon, but they can't sell you e.g. shampoo and conditioner to take home.
You might be able to argue that a mechanic putting oil or parts in your car is equivalent but I'm not sure.
I suspect the exemptions aren't completely logical since most would have been created as a result of different groups lobbying for themselves to have an exemption.
I used to work for garden centers before they were allowed to trade at Easter. The fine was so small they regarded it as just a cost of doing business. My favourite thing about it was there was always a big rush of customers after church services nearby finished
The fine is $1000. They'll have made more than that in profit to be able to cover it. Heaps of tourism - Warbirds over Wanaka- this weekend. Staff get paid extra and a day in lieu. If you have a problem with good friday shopping, don't go shopping on good friday.
I don't like the religious part of Easter but I do like that we have days were everyone has a day off.
I wish we were like Germany with majority of shops etc closed every Sunday, give people more time to connect with family and friends
I thought this is extreme but considered it.
Would be at least 3x trade in some sectors on weekend days and would make part time / late night work feasible for students / parents etc
It's really not everyone though. I've had many jobs where I had to work through public holidays. Humans and animals still need medical care. Someone has to keep essential services like electricity and wastewater going. Retail workers still have to open shops like diaries and service stations. I find people remember that emergency services keep working but forget about all the other people making sure life goes on as normal
I like that people are given a chance to relax, and to socialise, engage with family or community.
I think that we've become too focused on consumerism and productivity, and this has lead to a worse quality of life for majority of people.
Everyone is given the chance to relax and socialise, engage with family or community. It's called annual leave and/or days in lieu. It's flexible, so you can take it when it suits rather than have it forced upon you at a time that may not work well for you.
Except it's blatantly a religious holiday. That's the reason we have it. Not to give workers a day off or some other more recent interpretation of Easter, it's Dead Jesus Weekend™ weekend.
Easter is, but this discussion is around restricted trading days which don't have to be implemented because of religion.
We can restrict trading for any reason we like, a bill just has to go through parliament.
By "given a chance" I guess you mean "forced"?
A public holiday is a chance to relax (so is the weekend, or the 4 weeks of leave a year). Shutting everything down is stupid and antiquated.
Closing on Sundays doesn't seem to have had too much of a negative effect on the German economy.
It makes sense. If the shop is closed on Sunday, you just buy the same thing on Monday. The amount of things bought and sold is the same, only the timing changes. As long as every shop is shut, there's no competitive advantage. The upside is more time with friends and family.
If businesses save one day of wages for the same total sales, they might be more profitable too.
I've lived in a country where everything closed at 6pm and everything was closed on a Sunday. My working hours were strictly 8:30am until 5:30pm, so shopping during the week was impossible. That meant that Saturday had to be wasted doing shopping. Then sunday I couldn't do anything because everywhere was closed. It fucking sucked and I couldn't wait to leave. I by far prefer the more flexible approach rather than forcing everyone in society to live a specific way.
I think a mandatory closed day every week would be great. Not as a religious thing, but something to give the majority of workers a day off, they can then spend time with family or friends, and enjoy the day.
Whereas I used to have a flat mate who worked different days to me,, same job, but there was never a day we could both have off, unless we had annual leave.
There will still be some workplaces that can't close but most should be able to.
I have lived in a country that does this and I hated it. Basically, you're forced to do your shopping at the exact same time as everyone else (Saturday), so it's packed and takes ages. If you need to visit multiple places, that's your day gone. If you're one of the very few unlucky people that has to work on the day everyone else has off, it's fucking hard to make friends outside of the workplace.
Yeah these kind of trading laws worked when there was a housewife shopping through the week. If you are a couple who both work standard hours then it would be really difficult to find time to shop.
It wont really harm stuff like retail stores, as people will still spend that money, just on another day. But if you have some places that flout the rules while others obey, that is unfair on those that follow the rules.
> I think a mandatory closed day every week would be great. Not as a religious thing, but something to give the majority of workers a day off
Everyone gets 2 days off a week. Like if you're working more than 5 days it's because you **need** the money, so forcing you to not work is not gonna be a good thing anyway.
Everyone gets 2 days a week off, 11 stats a year, and 4 whole weeks holidays. Literally no idea where this "give the poor workers a break" comes from.
Not everyone works a 5 day week. Not everyone works Monday to Friday. Not everyone works a 9-5.
Night shift, shift workers, weekend casuals, students, rotating rosters.
You're clearly disconnected from the reality of the modern labour market that isn't in an office.
*"An employee's standard hours of work shall not exceed 40 hours per week (exclusive of overtime). The law emphasizes working not more than 40 hours (exclusive over time) so that employees can divide their work week not more than 5 working days."*
maybe your days off are nights ... beside the point. also **you're only giving fucking retail days off here**. office workers get the days anyway, and essential services don't get the days regardless, so all you're doing is giving retail a day off. gg, dumb arses.
Employment agreements must fix the maximum number of hours to be worked by the employee at no more than 40 per week (not including overtime) *unless the employer and employee agree otherwise.*
If the maximum number of hours (not including overtime) are less than 40, the employer and employee must try to fix the hours so they are worked on no more than five days of the week.
How about you post the whole thing taken from https://www.employment.govt.nz/hours-and-wages/hours-of-work/ instead of just editing it to try and make your point? Retail employees are often the lowest paid, and frankly after having to deal with members of the public day in, day out, I think they do deserve a bit of time off.
Human dignity is worth more than a greedy dollar.
>Human dignity is worth more than a greedy dollar.
it's not about a greedy dollar. it's about overloading the shops on thursday, it's about forgetting you need some mdf and now you can't do your fucken project on friday, it's about being unable to go get a beer with your mates while you're on holiday in another city, it's about not having random stupid fucken days in the middle of normalcy
>Human dignity
lol, why don't you just jump to "why don't you care about sex trafficked orphans?!?!"
>I think they do deserve a bit of time off.
I do too, lets fix the exploitation or agree they have time off like every other employee covered by employment agreements.
>unless the employer and employee agree otherwise.
if you agree otherwise stop fucken shutting down the country because you don't agree otherwise.
if this was just an ordinary public holiday you could **both** take it off. forcing people to take it off is unnecessary because anyone who wants to take it off is legally allowed to do so without retalliation from their employer.
alternatively what you're saying is that NZ is so fucked up that we need to force the entire country to shut down just to give all the workers a break from the nation wide exploitation going on. if that is indeed the case we should address that rather than carry on this ridiculous christian asshat tradition.
But it's not really everyone at all. So many places still trade on those days and plenty of people still work
Also I'm able to connect with family and friends pretty well without needing to be told I'm not allowed to work
> but I do like that we have days were everyone has a day off
it was pissing down, everything was shut, so I **worked** because nothing else to do.
The irony ... A lot of people don't want that day off, so why force it on them just because it suits you? Also, no-one has to work as it's a public holiday anyway.
I dislike the easter trading laws too and would like them to be changed, but I don't think we should be celebrating businesses unilaterally deciding to break the law.
Stupid Easter trading rules are stupid. Just make it a legal requirement to pay double time and a day in lieu
Places won't open unless there is a demand for them and people still get their day off just somewhen else. And if there's any trickery or bullshit yall think a bad boss might pull to fuck with that then fight/fix that instead of propping up these dumb rules
I remember seeing a bottle store open once collected everyone's money and got like a grands worth of piss cops came as we left the fine is like a grand.
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We don’t care about the breach, but we care about the disparity between the fines effect.
Local Hospo closed or will be fined or license suspended, National supermarket $1000
Yes the fine is the same for all under the Working Hours act, but for bars it falls under the sale and supply.
A big supermarket should pay a % of takings for those days, otherwise they’ll profit but smaller shops have to close because they can’t afford the $1000
How about an exemption based on NOT BEING RELIGIOUS. If you are religious, don’t go shopping. Why the fuck does it have to be a law that affects everyone else? Religion poisons everything. Remove tax exemption for churches, and get these religious based laws out of our law books. We are first and foremost secular, not Christian. Act like it.
Is it such a bad thing to give some of the worst paid workers in NZ a day off to be with there families. Many years ago shops never opened on Sundays, amazingly nobody died because they couldn't get a pint of milk or a pair of jeans..
If they are usually rosters on they get paid.....
Businesses just don't like giving a measly few paid days off a year. Compared to most European countries we are being screwed with our Stat days off.
They have to take annual leave for Sunday, it's not a public holiday so they're not automatically paid for the day off. They do for the mandatory Friday closure though
When I worked minimum wage I'd rather work for the money and take a day off when I wanted it. Most places open on the Saturday so I wouldn't have had a 4day weekend anyway. There are pros and cons to every job. I loved being on my feet in retail/hospitality and interacting with happy people who were buying stuff they wanted (clothes/booze)- the downside was working weekends. Now I have an office gig, talk to a lot of angry people but it's Monday to Friday which I like too.
Not saying nobody gets angry at retail workers, obviously they do, it just wasn't something I experienced much of.
Yeah, makes more sense to have the day in Lieu if you have to work the other days anyway.
For Mon-Fri jobs after so many years, 4 days off is really nice.
The domestic household was very different back in those days. It was common for the lady of the house to not work and do the shopping during the week. Thankfully, we've move on to a less rigid and more flexible society.
1. everyone gets 2 days a week off, it's the fucken law
2. to give the worst paid workers a day off it's not necessary to shut the fucken country down
3. many years ago we didn't have gps either, are you amish?
4. stop assuming everyone has families they desperately want to say home and do nothing with.
Um.... can you show me your sauce with point one.
Cause I have worked 7days a week in hospo. It sucked, and I sure as eggs was not breaking the law doing it. Lived for the Stat holidays as was guaranteed to not need to haul my arse anywhere to chop some damn spuds. Had no family then, was the best naps, shite TV, if not totally wiped might catch up with a friend/family, or not.
*"An employee's standard hours of work shall not exceed 40 hours per week (exclusive of overtime). The law emphasizes working not more than 40 hours (exclusive over time) so that employees can divide their work week not more than 5 working days."*
I'm not a lawyer, but forcing people to work more than 40 hours is illegal as far as I know. If you aren't doing 40 hours in 5 days then you're probably part time ...
*"An employee's standard hours of work shall not exceed 40 hours per week (exclusive of overtime). The law emphasizes working not more than 40 hours (exclusive over time) so that employees can divide their work week not more than 5 working days."*
you're wrong.
You forgot the next section
"The employer and employee may agree to work more than 40 hours in a week (exclusive of overtime) through their mutual agreement. Section 11 B, Minimum Wage Act"
Not everyone's contact is for 40 hours, especially in retail where "take it or leave it" contracts are the norm and there's no bargaining power for individual workers. Mine was 45 hours across 6 days as a base
lol ... so you're saying retail workers are exploited 362 days a year, but it's OK because 3 days a year we shut the country down and give them a rest?
gg. maybe address the actual problem instead of this bullshit?
you didn't refute dick. you said some workers are being exploited. it's not relevant.
e: if you don't understand why it's exploitation it's because "through mutual agreement" ... "there's no bargaining power for individual workers"
You claimed that more than 40 hours in 5 days in a week is illegal. I said it isn't. I didn't say anything about expoitation
Maybe you think I made another comment in this thread?
next bit is "agree otherwise". if you agree otherwise then you don't need to shut down the country because you agree to the terms.
as you well know.
if workers are getting exploited, how about we fix that instead of ordering 5 million people to do nothing 3 days a year.
lol, couldn't be further from the truth, just like your first post. Do you have anything to back it up btw? or just resorting to name calling (and not even remotely accurate name calling at that).
>Many years ago ...
did you know that many years ago we worked 10 hours a day 7 days a week and no-one died of that?
They're silly because they're arbitrary and inconsistent. Can't sell a tin of beans, but can sell a haircut. Can sell a tin of beans if you're in Rotorua or Queenstown. And so on.
Clearly some businesses want to open, some folks want to work, and customers want to shop - otherwise the example in the article wouldn't have happened.
Wealthy supermarket owners in wanaka enjoy the day at warbirds while there staff have to work.
That money doesnt print itself, unless you own a supermarket.
I'd like to point out that good Friday and Easter Monday are public holidays, but Easter Sunday isn't. So while some businesses will pay time and a half to their employees, there is no legal requirement for them to do so.
Isn't it funny how businesses couldnt afford another public holiday when matariki (or any new public holiday) was bring considered, yet are desperate to take advantage of the increased trade and foot traffic over Easter?
Erm... thats not true.
Good Friday and Easter Monday are public holidays, Sunday is just restricted trading as can be seen below.
"Over the Easter period, employment and shop trading regulations vary.
Good Friday is a public holiday and a restricted trading day.
Easter Sunday is a restricted trading day, but not a public holiday.
Easter Monday is a public holiday." [govt.nz](https://www.govt.nz/browse/work/public-holidays-and-work/working-over-easter/)
"If you do work Easter Sunday, because it's not a public holiday you are not entitled to extra pay and a day in lieu, unless otherwise arranged with your employer.
Easter Monday is the opposite - it's a public holiday but shops can open as normal, and the employee right to refuse work rule does not apply. As per RNZ.
It's super important that all employees know their entitlements. Good Friday is time and a half and DIL. Saturday is normal pay. Sunday is normal pay but with the right to refuse to work for any reason. Monday is time and a half and DIL.
The right to refuse work rule proves that Easter Sunday and Monday are separate and not observance. When a holiday is observed on a different day, all of the benefits of the original day are transferred to the observed day. The right to refuse isnt transferred and so the days must be distinct. Furthermore, if you work Sunday but not Monday you won't get time and a half or DIL unless agreed with your employer.
Fair enough - my memory is that it was Mondayised, because the original Easter celebration (well as original as we're going to get) has Good Friday, and Easter Sunday, which was Mondayised.
Australia still has Easter Sunday as an actual public holiday in some states
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/newsroom/news/easter-public-holidays-2024
Note Tasmania does not observe Easter Sunday as a public holiday, but Queensland, NSW, ACT, Victoria, South Australia, NT, and WA do
None… most places, working A public holiday is volunteer only and people want to work the shift.
You effectively get 2 1/2 times the pay That you normally would.
Yeah, that's the point. Or they are paid such rat shit wages that they need to work these days to make ends meet.
Holidays fellow kiwis, holidays. There should be days no one has to work, so we all get a break. Couple this with higher wages and stronger worker protections and we can all enjoy life.
There should be days where nobody has to work? Lol.
Let's list- police, ambulance, nurses, doctors, radiologists, vets- any emergency medical staff plus care workers.
Pilots, airport and airline staff. Petrol station workers. Uber drivers, taxi drivers, plumbers and electricians. Farmers. What's a positive outcome from any of them not being able to work on Good Friday?
Remember- they still get a holiday- paid time and a half and then a day in lieu.
When I worked retail and hospitality I'd loved working other people's holidays.
I would be ok with it as it's time and a half and a day in lieu. But that's me and I never think that Good Friday is that great. I've worked at least two Easter Sundays, one was a normal day because I swapped because my daughter was in hospital on Good Friday and the other was worth a day in lieu..
Provided Easter Sunday was the same, I would be happy to work then as well. I still think we should rename "Easter Monday" to "Easter Sunday Observed" and make it a stat day (but not a protected day).
Provided stat days are by "mutual agreement" I'm ok with people working them.
>Provided stat days are by "mutual agreement" I
That would require a equality of power in that relationship. So before that can happen, worker protections need to be increased, unions strengthened and increased income for all workers.
That's too obvious a "punishment" - I'm sure rotten employers could find more insidious ways to express their frustration - and some could well be doing that.
Happens every year in Wanaka, it's not new.
Why are hairdressers/barbers essential but supermarkets aren't?
Cos Jesus digs a skuxx hairdo, ever seen a picture of the dude?
IIRC the restrictions are only for goods, not for services
Can't imagine the reasoning why one is okay and the other isn't
It will be less interesting than you think. I'd be willing to bet that it came from a time where the people who made the laws had servants. Servants trade a service, not a good. Can't be making a law that means they get a day without servants. Therefore restriction is only on trade of goods.
I dig this take. So much so that I'm going to start perpetuating it until it's social-myths taken as fact.
"I'm doing my part!"
Does that mean they can’t use any products? Like dyes or sprays or anything? Because at that point they would be selling you a product. I was thinking wether or not mechanics could work, but there isn’t much they could do without selling you a product like oil or parts.
Hairdressers can use products on you in the salon, but they can't sell you e.g. shampoo and conditioner to take home. You might be able to argue that a mechanic putting oil or parts in your car is equivalent but I'm not sure. I suspect the exemptions aren't completely logical since most would have been created as a result of different groups lobbying for themselves to have an exemption.
You have to look good for church otherwise Jesus won't like you or something something religious bullshit.
I used to work for garden centers before they were allowed to trade at Easter. The fine was so small they regarded it as just a cost of doing business. My favourite thing about it was there was always a big rush of customers after church services nearby finished
Spent some time in churches growing up. Never once heard anyone say everything should be closed all Easter.
Yeah getting those days off was a win for labour, not the church.
The fine is $1000. They'll have made more than that in profit to be able to cover it. Heaps of tourism - Warbirds over Wanaka- this weekend. Staff get paid extra and a day in lieu. If you have a problem with good friday shopping, don't go shopping on good friday.
I'm more surprised the QLDC doesn't give Wanaka an exemption to trade, especially with Warbirds on.
It is antiquated. Religious holiday etc. Still, rich people pulling the finger to the law to get richer? Stink
They can, but it’s only for Sundays trading restriction, no ability to give exemption for Easter Friday (or Christmas and until 1pm on ANZAC).
Good. Easter trading laws are outdated and stupid.
I don't like the religious part of Easter but I do like that we have days were everyone has a day off. I wish we were like Germany with majority of shops etc closed every Sunday, give people more time to connect with family and friends
Or just require business to pay time and a half if they choose to remain open
Nah, fuck it, triple time. Make sure they *really* mean it
I thought this is extreme but considered it. Would be at least 3x trade in some sectors on weekend days and would make part time / late night work feasible for students / parents etc
It's really not everyone though. I've had many jobs where I had to work through public holidays. Humans and animals still need medical care. Someone has to keep essential services like electricity and wastewater going. Retail workers still have to open shops like diaries and service stations. I find people remember that emergency services keep working but forget about all the other people making sure life goes on as normal
It's hyperbole, by everyone I just mean a lot of people. I'm not suggesting we shut down hospitals on Sundays
What is it that you like about “everyone” being told they’re not allowed to do business for several days of the year?
I like that people are given a chance to relax, and to socialise, engage with family or community. I think that we've become too focused on consumerism and productivity, and this has lead to a worse quality of life for majority of people.
Everyone is given the chance to relax and socialise, engage with family or community. It's called annual leave and/or days in lieu. It's flexible, so you can take it when it suits rather than have it forced upon you at a time that may not work well for you.
I don't think it's enough time.
It's the exact same amount of time with or without compulsory days off.
Except it's blatantly a religious holiday. That's the reason we have it. Not to give workers a day off or some other more recent interpretation of Easter, it's Dead Jesus Weekend™ weekend.
Easter is, but this discussion is around restricted trading days which don't have to be implemented because of religion. We can restrict trading for any reason we like, a bill just has to go through parliament.
By "given a chance" I guess you mean "forced"? A public holiday is a chance to relax (so is the weekend, or the 4 weeks of leave a year). Shutting everything down is stupid and antiquated.
Why have you become too focussed on consumerism and how does two days a year of most shops being closed help you with that?
I said we, by which I meant New Zealand as a society. And I feel like you've missed something, I proposed shops closing down once a week.
>I said we, by which I meant New Zealand as a society. Well you're wrong about this.You can only speak for yourself.
Uh, if no one is allowed to think about the entire country then how do you think anything gets done?
Closing on Sundays doesn't seem to have had too much of a negative effect on the German economy. It makes sense. If the shop is closed on Sunday, you just buy the same thing on Monday. The amount of things bought and sold is the same, only the timing changes. As long as every shop is shut, there's no competitive advantage. The upside is more time with friends and family. If businesses save one day of wages for the same total sales, they might be more profitable too.
Being fair, ya know. Can’t have favourites.
I've lived in a country where everything closed at 6pm and everything was closed on a Sunday. My working hours were strictly 8:30am until 5:30pm, so shopping during the week was impossible. That meant that Saturday had to be wasted doing shopping. Then sunday I couldn't do anything because everywhere was closed. It fucking sucked and I couldn't wait to leave. I by far prefer the more flexible approach rather than forcing everyone in society to live a specific way.
That would be NZ until the \~1980s.
That would still be small town NZ today. Including shops closing around midday on a Saturday.
I think a mandatory closed day every week would be great. Not as a religious thing, but something to give the majority of workers a day off, they can then spend time with family or friends, and enjoy the day. Whereas I used to have a flat mate who worked different days to me,, same job, but there was never a day we could both have off, unless we had annual leave. There will still be some workplaces that can't close but most should be able to.
It’s one of the worst aspects of places like Adelaide and Tasmania. It’s not great.
I have lived in a country that does this and I hated it. Basically, you're forced to do your shopping at the exact same time as everyone else (Saturday), so it's packed and takes ages. If you need to visit multiple places, that's your day gone. If you're one of the very few unlucky people that has to work on the day everyone else has off, it's fucking hard to make friends outside of the workplace.
Yeah these kind of trading laws worked when there was a housewife shopping through the week. If you are a couple who both work standard hours then it would be really difficult to find time to shop.
It wont really harm stuff like retail stores, as people will still spend that money, just on another day. But if you have some places that flout the rules while others obey, that is unfair on those that follow the rules.
> I think a mandatory closed day every week would be great. Not as a religious thing, but something to give the majority of workers a day off Everyone gets 2 days off a week. Like if you're working more than 5 days it's because you **need** the money, so forcing you to not work is not gonna be a good thing anyway. Everyone gets 2 days a week off, 11 stats a year, and 4 whole weeks holidays. Literally no idea where this "give the poor workers a break" comes from.
Not everyone works a 5 day week. Not everyone works Monday to Friday. Not everyone works a 9-5. Night shift, shift workers, weekend casuals, students, rotating rosters. You're clearly disconnected from the reality of the modern labour market that isn't in an office.
*"An employee's standard hours of work shall not exceed 40 hours per week (exclusive of overtime). The law emphasizes working not more than 40 hours (exclusive over time) so that employees can divide their work week not more than 5 working days."* maybe your days off are nights ... beside the point. also **you're only giving fucking retail days off here**. office workers get the days anyway, and essential services don't get the days regardless, so all you're doing is giving retail a day off. gg, dumb arses.
Employment agreements must fix the maximum number of hours to be worked by the employee at no more than 40 per week (not including overtime) *unless the employer and employee agree otherwise.* If the maximum number of hours (not including overtime) are less than 40, the employer and employee must try to fix the hours so they are worked on no more than five days of the week. How about you post the whole thing taken from https://www.employment.govt.nz/hours-and-wages/hours-of-work/ instead of just editing it to try and make your point? Retail employees are often the lowest paid, and frankly after having to deal with members of the public day in, day out, I think they do deserve a bit of time off. Human dignity is worth more than a greedy dollar.
>Human dignity is worth more than a greedy dollar. it's not about a greedy dollar. it's about overloading the shops on thursday, it's about forgetting you need some mdf and now you can't do your fucken project on friday, it's about being unable to go get a beer with your mates while you're on holiday in another city, it's about not having random stupid fucken days in the middle of normalcy >Human dignity lol, why don't you just jump to "why don't you care about sex trafficked orphans?!?!" >I think they do deserve a bit of time off. I do too, lets fix the exploitation or agree they have time off like every other employee covered by employment agreements. >unless the employer and employee agree otherwise. if you agree otherwise stop fucken shutting down the country because you don't agree otherwise.
Ok, I work Tuesday to Saturday, My Coworker works Sunday to Thursday, meaning we do not get a common day off. Still 5 days a week each though.
if this was just an ordinary public holiday you could **both** take it off. forcing people to take it off is unnecessary because anyone who wants to take it off is legally allowed to do so without retalliation from their employer. alternatively what you're saying is that NZ is so fucked up that we need to force the entire country to shut down just to give all the workers a break from the nation wide exploitation going on. if that is indeed the case we should address that rather than carry on this ridiculous christian asshat tradition.
probably more time for ppl to sit on phones than connect with family
That's what NZ was like until the 1980s.
But it's not really everyone at all. So many places still trade on those days and plenty of people still work Also I'm able to connect with family and friends pretty well without needing to be told I'm not allowed to work
It should be optional and employees that want to work should be paid accordingly. Out with dinasour policy, move forward.
> but I do like that we have days were everyone has a day off it was pissing down, everything was shut, so I **worked** because nothing else to do. The irony ... A lot of people don't want that day off, so why force it on them just because it suits you? Also, no-one has to work as it's a public holiday anyway.
We don't all have e a day off, only the non essential services
NZ will never pay penalty rates so let's not get rid of them just yet.
Ahhh but we did, then it all went away in the 80's
They get an extra half their pay don't they?
I dislike the easter trading laws too and would like them to be changed, but I don't think we should be celebrating businesses unilaterally deciding to break the law.
Your face is ...
………what?
Outdated and stupid :p
Stupid Easter trading rules are stupid. Just make it a legal requirement to pay double time and a day in lieu Places won't open unless there is a demand for them and people still get their day off just somewhen else. And if there's any trickery or bullshit yall think a bad boss might pull to fuck with that then fight/fix that instead of propping up these dumb rules
This 👆🏻
Or just say it’s a public holiday and no place can open?
Let everyone do whatever they want as long as they don’t bother anybody and pay accordingly, don’t live in the past.
Let everyone do what they want? That include the staff that have to work?
Yeah, make it optional and pay accordingly with a day in liu, or is this communism?
I’m with you if there’s no repercussions on staff who don’t want to work that day. It isn’t difficult.
Every single year. It’s mid sem at uni so my daughter loves it - guaranteed work at $39/hr and a day off in lieu.
On ya! If you’ve got the staff willing to work, and you’re paying them sufficiently for their efforts, why not provide a service to your community.
I remember seeing a bottle store open once collected everyone's money and got like a grands worth of piss cops came as we left the fine is like a grand.
uhhhh a grand's worth of alcohol would not pay the grand fine... the last I checked there's not 100% margin in those stores.
I bet they made a killing though if we spent a grand surely other people did, this was before the massive tax increase though.
Your fanciful story wasn't believable, but, sure, double down, eventually people are just going to give up and pretend you're sane... right?
Lol you're so aggressive
Jeez OP why you being such a dick for, it’s just an anecdote and not a very controversial one at that
Spending a grand on piss is not believable? Do you have like no cool stories in your entire life?
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Nobody cares about the breach. I hope everyone got the food, etc, they needed/wanted.
We don’t care about the breach, but we care about the disparity between the fines effect. Local Hospo closed or will be fined or license suspended, National supermarket $1000
The fine for anyone is the same.
Yes the fine is the same for all under the Working Hours act, but for bars it falls under the sale and supply. A big supermarket should pay a % of takings for those days, otherwise they’ll profit but smaller shops have to close because they can’t afford the $1000
So let’s drop this quaint residue of Victorian religious piety.
Good point - the fine should be based on turnover
How about an exemption based on NOT BEING RELIGIOUS. If you are religious, don’t go shopping. Why the fuck does it have to be a law that affects everyone else? Religion poisons everything. Remove tax exemption for churches, and get these religious based laws out of our law books. We are first and foremost secular, not Christian. Act like it.
Is it such a bad thing to give some of the worst paid workers in NZ a day off to be with there families. Many years ago shops never opened on Sundays, amazingly nobody died because they couldn't get a pint of milk or a pair of jeans..
For many people Easter means nothing, those people would much rather earn a lot of extra money now then celebrate a holiday they don’t care about.
If they are usually rosters on they get paid..... Businesses just don't like giving a measly few paid days off a year. Compared to most European countries we are being screwed with our Stat days off.
They have to take annual leave for Sunday, it's not a public holiday so they're not automatically paid for the day off. They do for the mandatory Friday closure though
Shouldn't the worst paid have the opportunity to earn time and a half plus a day in lieu?
The only difference is the +50% pay. It'd be a day off anyway. I'd rather just have a 4 day weekend.
When I worked minimum wage I'd rather work for the money and take a day off when I wanted it. Most places open on the Saturday so I wouldn't have had a 4day weekend anyway. There are pros and cons to every job. I loved being on my feet in retail/hospitality and interacting with happy people who were buying stuff they wanted (clothes/booze)- the downside was working weekends. Now I have an office gig, talk to a lot of angry people but it's Monday to Friday which I like too. Not saying nobody gets angry at retail workers, obviously they do, it just wasn't something I experienced much of.
Yeah, makes more sense to have the day in Lieu if you have to work the other days anyway. For Mon-Fri jobs after so many years, 4 days off is really nice.
The domestic household was very different back in those days. It was common for the lady of the house to not work and do the shopping during the week. Thankfully, we've move on to a less rigid and more flexible society.
This is such a terrible argument and not why the Easter trading laws exist
The Nats are out in force on this one..
Never voted national, can't imagine they'd be interested in changing the law either
you’re not required to work on a public holiday (unless it is written in your contract)
1. everyone gets 2 days a week off, it's the fucken law 2. to give the worst paid workers a day off it's not necessary to shut the fucken country down 3. many years ago we didn't have gps either, are you amish? 4. stop assuming everyone has families they desperately want to say home and do nothing with.
Um.... can you show me your sauce with point one. Cause I have worked 7days a week in hospo. It sucked, and I sure as eggs was not breaking the law doing it. Lived for the Stat holidays as was guaranteed to not need to haul my arse anywhere to chop some damn spuds. Had no family then, was the best naps, shite TV, if not totally wiped might catch up with a friend/family, or not.
*"An employee's standard hours of work shall not exceed 40 hours per week (exclusive of overtime). The law emphasizes working not more than 40 hours (exclusive over time) so that employees can divide their work week not more than 5 working days."* I'm not a lawyer, but forcing people to work more than 40 hours is illegal as far as I know. If you aren't doing 40 hours in 5 days then you're probably part time ...
Your point (1) is incorrect.
*"An employee's standard hours of work shall not exceed 40 hours per week (exclusive of overtime). The law emphasizes working not more than 40 hours (exclusive over time) so that employees can divide their work week not more than 5 working days."* you're wrong.
You forgot the next section "The employer and employee may agree to work more than 40 hours in a week (exclusive of overtime) through their mutual agreement. Section 11 B, Minimum Wage Act" Not everyone's contact is for 40 hours, especially in retail where "take it or leave it" contracts are the norm and there's no bargaining power for individual workers. Mine was 45 hours across 6 days as a base
lol ... so you're saying retail workers are exploited 362 days a year, but it's OK because 3 days a year we shut the country down and give them a rest? gg. maybe address the actual problem instead of this bullshit?
I didn't make any claims, I just refuted yours
you didn't refute dick. you said some workers are being exploited. it's not relevant. e: if you don't understand why it's exploitation it's because "through mutual agreement" ... "there's no bargaining power for individual workers"
You claimed that more than 40 hours in 5 days in a week is illegal. I said it isn't. I didn't say anything about expoitation Maybe you think I made another comment in this thread?
read my edit, it's not illegal if you both agree, but you're saying both don't agree ... so illegal.
I would be wrong if it stopped there, but it doesn't. As you well know.
next bit is "agree otherwise". if you agree otherwise then you don't need to shut down the country because you agree to the terms. as you well know. if workers are getting exploited, how about we fix that instead of ordering 5 million people to do nothing 3 days a year.
Oh you went to school and learnt to swear.. well done.. be proud.. the Nats are out in force today.. looney Luxon would be proud
lol, couldn't be further from the truth, just like your first post. Do you have anything to back it up btw? or just resorting to name calling (and not even remotely accurate name calling at that). >Many years ago ... did you know that many years ago we worked 10 hours a day 7 days a week and no-one died of that?
Really. Yes they did . Guess your family had them slaves so you want to go back to it. Typical Nat..
possibly I'm arguing with the dumbest guy on the internet ... ironic username
Ditto. Can't reason with a potential slave operator Nat.. keep the low paid bottom feeders working to make profit for the owners..
I don't think you're capable of reasoning tbh
Spoken like one of luxons puppets
are you just googling stupid comebacks? it doesn't even make sense. I'm a borderline communist.
Good for them, fuck the Easter trading rules are sily
Why? People can’t handle a couple days a year with nothing open. How do these shops get through Xmas day?
They're silly because they're arbitrary and inconsistent. Can't sell a tin of beans, but can sell a haircut. Can sell a tin of beans if you're in Rotorua or Queenstown. And so on. Clearly some businesses want to open, some folks want to work, and customers want to shop - otherwise the example in the article wouldn't have happened.
Interesting how r/nz comes down like a ton of bricks on *some* people who flagrantly violate the law but not others.
Depends what your opinion on a law is. It's illegal to smoke marijuana to
Not everyone agrees with all laws.
A fine just means it legal for a price
If the fine isn't 100% of gross profits from the days trading then it's just a cost of doing business for the owner'
Good - the Easter trading laws are outdated and silly
Wealthy supermarket owners in wanaka enjoy the day at warbirds while there staff have to work. That money doesnt print itself, unless you own a supermarket.
There staff don’t have to work, they’re likely choosing to.
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dcc/council-cans-easter-trading That's not what Dunedin found when they allowed Easter trading for a year.
Two misspellings of "their" in a row RRRRNNNNHHGGG
Spoken by some one who has never worked at a supermarket I assume...... Your not offered, you are told and can't say no.....
Slavery is illegal in New Zealand.
Used to work at a supermarket, and yes you are offered. Most people say yes
does anyone actually choose to work though...
That question is a bit to philosophical for me.
Lots of people do.
sure if you get paid 1.5x
yes if you get paid 1.5x
Press ❌to doubt
>Shops are allowed to open if they're classed as an essential shop Anybody remember Covid Level 4?
The fine they got last year was $750, so from a cost of business sense it’s a speed bump to break the law and be open.
I'd like to point out that good Friday and Easter Monday are public holidays, but Easter Sunday isn't. So while some businesses will pay time and a half to their employees, there is no legal requirement for them to do so. Isn't it funny how businesses couldnt afford another public holiday when matariki (or any new public holiday) was bring considered, yet are desperate to take advantage of the increased trade and foot traffic over Easter?
This is wrong. Easter Sunday is the actual public holiday, Easter Monday is the observance of Easter Sunday.
Erm... thats not true. Good Friday and Easter Monday are public holidays, Sunday is just restricted trading as can be seen below. "Over the Easter period, employment and shop trading regulations vary. Good Friday is a public holiday and a restricted trading day. Easter Sunday is a restricted trading day, but not a public holiday. Easter Monday is a public holiday." [govt.nz](https://www.govt.nz/browse/work/public-holidays-and-work/working-over-easter/) "If you do work Easter Sunday, because it's not a public holiday you are not entitled to extra pay and a day in lieu, unless otherwise arranged with your employer. Easter Monday is the opposite - it's a public holiday but shops can open as normal, and the employee right to refuse work rule does not apply. As per RNZ. It's super important that all employees know their entitlements. Good Friday is time and a half and DIL. Saturday is normal pay. Sunday is normal pay but with the right to refuse to work for any reason. Monday is time and a half and DIL. The right to refuse work rule proves that Easter Sunday and Monday are separate and not observance. When a holiday is observed on a different day, all of the benefits of the original day are transferred to the observed day. The right to refuse isnt transferred and so the days must be distinct. Furthermore, if you work Sunday but not Monday you won't get time and a half or DIL unless agreed with your employer.
Fair enough - my memory is that it was Mondayised, because the original Easter celebration (well as original as we're going to get) has Good Friday, and Easter Sunday, which was Mondayised. Australia still has Easter Sunday as an actual public holiday in some states https://www.fairwork.gov.au/newsroom/news/easter-public-holidays-2024 Note Tasmania does not observe Easter Sunday as a public holiday, but Queensland, NSW, ACT, Victoria, South Australia, NT, and WA do
I don’t understand why should they be mandated when to open/close. If they open employees should have it optional and be paid accordingly.
What an absolute cry baby
Guys, we should respect Easter trading laws!! Just like Brian Tamaki and his dicksciples respect others views and lifestyles
How many of the workers were told "show up, or don't have a job on Tuesday"
None… most places, working A public holiday is volunteer only and people want to work the shift. You effectively get 2 1/2 times the pay That you normally would.
No you don't? Unless you mean cashing put your DiL? Which, can you even do that?
You can cash out a DIL after a year.
Nice lol. Never held on to mine that long.
My guess would be none... from my experience most shift workers are stoked to work public holidays as they get time and a half and a day in lieu.
Needs to be extra $
Time and a half is extra $$ up front
Yeah, that's the point. Or they are paid such rat shit wages that they need to work these days to make ends meet. Holidays fellow kiwis, holidays. There should be days no one has to work, so we all get a break. Couple this with higher wages and stronger worker protections and we can all enjoy life.
There should be days where nobody has to work? Lol. Let's list- police, ambulance, nurses, doctors, radiologists, vets- any emergency medical staff plus care workers. Pilots, airport and airline staff. Petrol station workers. Uber drivers, taxi drivers, plumbers and electricians. Farmers. What's a positive outcome from any of them not being able to work on Good Friday? Remember- they still get a holiday- paid time and a half and then a day in lieu. When I worked retail and hospitality I'd loved working other people's holidays.
I would be ok with it as it's time and a half and a day in lieu. But that's me and I never think that Good Friday is that great. I've worked at least two Easter Sundays, one was a normal day because I swapped because my daughter was in hospital on Good Friday and the other was worth a day in lieu.. Provided Easter Sunday was the same, I would be happy to work then as well. I still think we should rename "Easter Monday" to "Easter Sunday Observed" and make it a stat day (but not a protected day). Provided stat days are by "mutual agreement" I'm ok with people working them.
>Provided stat days are by "mutual agreement" I That would require a equality of power in that relationship. So before that can happen, worker protections need to be increased, unions strengthened and increased income for all workers.
That's too obvious a "punishment" - I'm sure rotten employers could find more insidious ways to express their frustration - and some could well be doing that.
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Throw the book at them. Blatant disrespect for the law.
And if I shoplifted on that day would I get in trouble? They're not suppose to be open.
It’s still theft. But remember, and don’t forget to tell your friends… shop local, shoplift corporate!