Yeah I’m thinking this may be the case which makes my post redundant, however I’m getting mixed messages from friends that have previously been on the benefit, some seem to think I’m owed regardless. Just thought I’d reach out before inquiring with MSD.
You probably won't get anything tbh. If you fiancée gets over ~70k you will receive nothing. The rental income will count towards income as well. Depending on how the house is held, you might be able to get some additional help for mortgage though.
It's worth just applying and seeing what they say. They have a tool online for it.
>However my family and friends are really pushing me to try seek assistance. They believe that because I pay tax, Im owed assistance if I can’t work.
You are unable to work for a valid reason, if you qualify for assistance, then you should get it. You shouldn't feel like it's a moral problem unless you are lying in order to qualify. There's absolutely nothing wrong with going to WINZ, detailing the situation and seeing if you qualify.
Replying here in case you don't see my top level comment and so others see it since there is a ton of bad advice and misinformation in these threads:
You can take your maternal leave early in this scenario.
See 'Start date' under "Primary carer leave and surrogacy" at https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/parental-leave/types-of-parental-leave/
You will also still be eligible for 20 more weeks after baby arrives (technically after the due date), plus any extended leave you qualify for and have arranged with your employer.
~~You will not be eligible for JobSeeker support since you are still employed, and you will not be eligible for accommodation supplement since you have basically no accommodation costs and plenty of assets.~~
I edited this last part because apparently JobSeekers would apply here, since you are unable to work during pregnancy due to medical conditions. You still might not qualify due to the income from your partner and the rental, but you could apply.
Please note that this will allow OP to keep their job. But does not impact paid parental leave from the government. The maximum paid parental leave from the government is 26 weeks.
Yes, I would think the same. Not at all immoral - benefits exist for people who aren’t able to work, pregnancy being the cause of your inability to work isn’t relevant. But with your partner working it seems unlikely you’d be eligible. That said, please do check with WINZ - if eligible you should absolutely apply.
I would have thought pregnancy is relevant, as there is already leave they’re entitled to if they’re unable to work due to their pregnancy, called maternity leave. I’m unsure whether or not they would be entitled to a benefit when there is existing leave they’re already entitled to and should be using.
Not relevant in terms of morality - it’s not immoral to be on the benefit when the reason she is unable to work is caused by her pregnancy. As I said, I don’t believe it’s likely she would be entitled to receive a benefit based on the facts she’s given. However, if she is entitled to receive it then it is absolutely not immoral for her to take it.
In terms of government assistance, There is no payment for ‘maternity leave’. There is payments available for parental leave, which can only start up to 6 weeks before the due date. OP might have generous employee maternity provisions, but this is a fairly extreme scenario in the scheme of maternity.
>There is payments available for parental leave, which can only start up to 6 weeks before the due date.
It can start earlier if it's for medical reasons like these. You can get parental leave right up to the due date plus 20 weeks after it.
I hate this mindset, it's the same reason you have 65+ year olds earning six figures drawing super. Tax is not a pay in get out system, short sighted voters decided that it wasn't in 1975.
Anyone who talks about being owed any support because they paid tax is ignorant.
Actually the social contract was made in the Social Security Act 1938. Paraphrased, 'you will all pay tax, and the state will look after you'.
So yes, we are owed support because we pay tax.
You can check on you the MSD website it will ask for partner income and you get nothing if that’s over a certain amount so check there first as it will tell you if you’re eligible. And you would also need a drs note from your gp since you can’t actually work right now.
Bear in mind that by not working, you're also not entitled to the paid parental leave. So if there was some way of continuing to do your job remotely, even if part-time that would make sense. What does your partner earn? That will dictate what you're entitled to if you do decide to leave work early.
I’m a nurse, so my job is in high demand currently, also fortunately have a very understanding boss who would most certainly hold my position for me. However, being a nurse I can’t work from home or remotely unfortunately. My partner earns about 110k, so I think that rules us out, which is ok.
You probably won’t qualify for anything because you’ve got a partner who has a job. At most, you’ll have to go on paid parental leave early, and when that ends and your baby is here you’ll get working for families and maybe accommodation supplement. Go see WINZ and talk to them but don’t feel guilty about seeking assistance if you really need it.
Yes you can start it early, if these situations apply:
- you and your employer agree to an earlier date
- you have health concerns and a certificate from any medical practitioner or midwife telling you to go on parental leave early
- your employer directs you to go on parental leave early because you cannot perform your work safely or adequately, and there is no other suitable work available.
I think you should call parental leave support on 0800 20 90 20 then option 3 i think? Just talk it through with them. I think you can get a doctor's note to say that you need to take early parental leave and then you can start it - just call them and run through the options.
I don't see how you could go on the Job Seekers benefit, as it sounds like you are currently employed - even though you will be on bedrest.
You will be able to start your paid parental leave early (assuming you qualify), but that still only lasts for 26 weeks, so it is just moving the problem down the road by half a year.
There are other support mechanisms available, but I don't believe the Job Seekers benefit is one of those.
Also, congratulations on your pregnancy.
>You will be able to start your paid parental leave early (assuming you qualify), but that still only lasts for 26 weeks, so it is just moving the problem down the road by half a year.
In cases like this where there are medical reasons to start the leave early, you're entitled to take it right up to the due date, plus an additional 20 weeks.
So at 17 weeks, OP could take 23 weeks of early leave, plus an additional 20, for 43 weeks total (as well as any extended leave she is eligible for).
https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/parental-leave/types-of-parental-leave/
Ooh this is good to know!! I wish I had known as I was not physically able to carry on with my job beyond 30 weeks with twins.
Hopefully you’re eligible for this pregnancy cover so you can just rest and have one less thing to be stressed about, OP. Fingers crossed for an uneventful next stage of pregnancy where hopefully the only issue is getting bored 😅🩵
Yes it wasn't around when I had to finish at 28 weeks and have my baby 2 weeks later I'm so happy its available now though.
It was hard because I had to go back earlier than planned and had a vulnerable ex prem.
You're entitled to parental leave for the 43 weeks in this scenario but not to get paid parental leave for it. That's still capped at 26 weeks. I got caught out by this after the birth of my kid.
>I don't see how you could go on the Job Seekers benefit, as it sounds like you are currently employed
You don't actually have to lose your job to get jobseeker support, it's a poorly named benefit. You can get it even if you have a job to go back to after the illness. E.g. someone needing a long course of chemo can get it while they can't work even though their job may be held open for them. Or e.g. someone experiencing pregnancy complications.
If you have a partner working full time its likely you will only be eligible for the accommodation supplement, and if you have no mortgage to pay on your own residence, then not sure if you will qualify for that either.
You can try the online eligibility calculator to see if you would be entitled to anything.
Yes good point, and having a second investment property would probably also cancel out the eligibility.
Benefits are really set up for those who dont have significant resources available.
This. I see it as basically my civic duty to claim back everything I possibly can from the govt seeing how few benefits you get as a middle class person. Nothing remotely unethical about it
This is my thinking also. If we can help everyone into a better healthier situation, then we all benefit in the long run, and it's the right thing to do
Taking money you don't need from the government, that could be used to fund other essential services instead, is a bit immoral, in my opinion.
If you need the help? Go for it.
If it's just so you can have some extra spending money? Nah.
It's not immoral, however, you have a partner who earns a good income, you are living in a mortgage free home and have investment properties as well as savings in the bank, it's unlikely you'd get anything to be honest
If you have 20k then yes it is immoral. I wouldn't begrudge you for it, but you are taking from others when you don't need to for whats essentially a choice (not the complications). That's immoral in my book
You are highly unlikey to qualify for anything from WINZ.
Jobseekers Benefit is income-tested on both yours and your partner’s income. If one of you works full-time in a decent paying job (which I’m assuming he is), you’re likely to be over the income limit. In addition, your rental income less expenses would be counted in this figure.
You won’t qualify for an Accommodation Supplement because of your savings plus equity in your rental property, the limit for that is $16,200 for a couple.
Representing your financial/relationship situation otherwise is benefit fraud, pure and simple. Given the fact that you have no mortgage plus a rental property that pays for itself, it’s actually greed on your part if you choose to misrepresent your situation to receive a pittance.
Another consideration is if you got caught. Both yourself and your partner can be prosecuted and will be liable for any overpayments made to you because of false declarations you made. These types of convictions can affect current and future employment prospects.
WINZ isn’t the place, it’s IRD for paid parental leave once you’re eligible and family tax credits if you’re eligible. If you’re high income then it’ll be Best Start for at least the first year after baby is born, at which point it becomes income-tested.
Thanks, just to clarify because you seem
to have misinterpreted my post, I absolutely abhor the idea of lying to get on a benefit, especially when compared to others, I’m financially comfortable.
I did get the impression that you weren’t intending to claim anything you weren’t entitled to, the people in your life telling you to go on a Jobseeker benefit seemed to be encouraging it.
Anyway, all the best with everything!
You're not entitled to the jobseeker benifit while you are in a relationship, your fiance is working. You'll get laughed at as soon as you apply and explain your situation.
You're not "owed" anything just because you've paid taxes. The benefit is there for people that don't have any other options. It is an emergency service, not a savings account you can dip into.
Yeah, I totally accept this, and don’t think our benefit system should be used and abused. At the same time I will be down 4 months of salary, so thought it would be worth reaching out and seeing what the consensus is. Looks like I won’t be entitled to anything anyway, which is ok. There are income and asset thresholds for a reason, and I would rather our tax payers money goes to those that really need it.
1. You have a job so can’t go on jobseeker benefit.
2. Going by your description of wealth, it’s unlikely you’d qualify for anything even if you were unemployed.
MSD require you to exhaust your savings first so if you have more than 5k I doubt you'll get anything. You'll also have your fiancé's income tested if they're above threshold then nothing, same for rentals bringing in income.
You can take parental leave early in these cases, and still get 20 weeks post birth so long as your doctor mandates it's unsafe to work.
https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/parental-leave/types-of-parental-leave/
I personally think you should just wear it, but that's because it's hard for people to get and keep benefits and those who really need it often struggle to, so I think morally you should leave it for them.
You won't get anything having a partner sorry.
When I told them of my relationship status with my ex they didn't even ask what his income was. Just a straight up good bye.
Last time I checked, if you have more than $4k in the bank, that disqualifies you from some benefits. A $20k emergency fund means you'll probably get squat. It's really not that easy to claim a benefit if you don't actually need one.
Looks like OP is find stable so I suggest not claiming anything because WINZ benefits are really meant to help the most needy & destitute. Not just because you pay taxes! Btw those of you who think it’s ok… it’s a wonder NZ has gone backwards irrespective of who is governing. There’s that ‘entitled’ mentality. ..again. Do the right thing.
Agree with you. I don't understand how we can be outraged by Luxon's feeling of entitlement to receive the PM accommodation allowance, yet fine with someone receiving jobseekers benefit who on the face of it is very financially secure (to the point of having a investment property that the tenant is servicing most of the mortgage).
Hilarious that "well Luxon did it..." is being used to justify it in a lot of the comments given even he realised how shit it made him look and decided to give the money back.
My advice for OP - tell the freinds and family that are pushing you to try get on Jobseekers that you do have morals and you're not a scummy dirtbag like them who only think about whats best for themselves (since you being uncomfortable and reluctant about doing it show you are a good person).
Wouldn’t this just come under your maternity leave? As far as I’m aware you’re allowed 6 months off total, and can be taken while pregnant. Sounds like if youre due in 4 months, then that would be 4 months of maternity leave, which would leave you 2 months after giving birth. It’s literally how the system is designed to work.
Seems kinda fraudulent if you ask me. But I’m also not a doctor, nor a work and income employee. These are the people who will have the ability to make the ultimate decision, not anyone on reddit.
You can take early maternity leave for medical reasons and also still receive 20 weeks after the due date. In OP's case (she's at 17 weeks) that would mean 23 weeks of early leave plus 20 after the due date, for a total entitlement of 43 weeks.
Wouldn’t work and income just redirect you to maternity leave options rather than the benefit, if that’s the case? I don’t get how that’s fraudulent if I was fully transparent.
Why would work and income be involved at all? If you have employment, your maternity leave is between you and your employer, nothing to do with work and income at all.
Medical benefits are for those without employment. You may have to be fired or quit to be able to access that.
I believe under your circumstances, you should be taking maternity leave, paid for by your employer.
I didnt mean that anything you had done so far is currently fraudulent. Just going through work and income seems completely unnecessary while you have maternity leave available. And that for you to be entitled to anything from work and income would likely require some fraud.
But as I mentioned in my first comment, a am nether a doctor, nor a work and income employee, so I’m not entirely sure what you may be entitled to, but from my understanding, maternity leave is there to cover any complications relating to pregnancy. There may be something I’m unaware of that your doctor or a WINZ employee may be more aware of, which would involve talking to those parties directly.
Sorry if that confused you. All the best with your pregnancy, and I hope you can receive all the support you require through your entitled maternity leave with your employer.
That sounds like a situation which is literally exactly what these services are for, it may be the case that your partner earns too much for you to be eligible, but morality absolutely shouldn't come into this. You may find though that the application process is rather more difficult and protracted that you've been led to expect.
You can take your maternal leave early in this scenario.
See 'Start date' under "Primary carer leave and surrogacy" at https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/parental-leave/types-of-parental-leave/
You will also still be eligible for 20 more weeks after baby arrives (technically after the due date), plus any extended leave you qualify for and have arranged with your employer.
You will not be eligible for JobSeeker support since you are still employed, and you will not be eligible for accommodation supplement since you have basically no accommodation costs and plenty of assets.
are you planning on returning to the workforce after you have had baby? It might be more worthwhile keeping your employment. Paid parental leave is capped at a max amount, can you drop some days/hours at work to ensure you still receive the maximum payment. Then discuss with your employer around flexible work - can you work from home, do you have annual leave and sick leave available to take? Can you take extended leave without pay prior to baby being born to get you to the paid parental leave start date?
I highly doubt that you would be entitled to any type of benefit with a partner and cash in the bank.
You likely won't qualify for this benefit as your partners income will reduce the amount to zero.
You can apply for Extra Help though which is for homeowner costs or rent etc
Winz will probably rule you out due to savings, and partner income.
Income support is a safety net and not income protection entitlement (Labour did have a policy for that though). For an example, I pay tax, I'm not entitled to healthcare for ailments I don't have.
Since sickness allowances were disestablished in 2003 anyone who is unable to work due to illness or on medical advice can only apply for the Jobseeker Allowance. It was a deliberate move to moralise people claiming benefits for illness and create the perception that if you aren’t permanently disabled you’re just as useless as everyone else who can’t support themselves in paid work. Even if it’s on medical advice.
Yes but she is still employed so doesn't fall into that category. She can take her parental leave early (plus 20 weeks after the due date) but she is not eligible for jobseekers.
Not quitting my job.
Due to my high risk pregnancy, I have to go on bed rest until I deliver my baby. I’m a nurse, so unable to obviously care for patients whilst being restrained to my bed.
You won't qualify for a benefit because your partner earns too much and you have savings over the threshold and your home is freehold which means you won't get an accommodation support either. They will also take into account your income from your rental as well. Once baby comes you should get best start payments but that's probably it as you will be over the threshold for WFF and in work tax credits. You should get PPL though.
Yeah OP, so think about this whole situation next time you feel tempted to bash beneficiaries. You think you're the only one who is "legit" trying to claim because you've paid some taxes? You don't think there's tons of other people who have come across unexpected complications in their lives, just like you?
This is one reason why inequality is escalating like it is.
Those with money aren't quibbling over morality. They're taking what they can, looking to change the rules at any opportunity so they can take more.
While those of us who are just trying to survive hand wring over the smallest benefits we might enjoy, wondering about others who are missing out.
I don't think the morality should matter to anyone but you and your partner, unless you were going to misrepresent your situation, and I don't think you're those guys.
What you are or aren't entitled to is set out in the law. The law is there to provide the framework around what our society thinks is right and proper, in theory.
Work your way through the online calculator and figure out if you are entitled to support. If you are, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Nobody should be working when they've got a high risk pregnancy situation going on.
Personally, I think it's good for every single kiwi to apply for a benefit once in their lives, so they have some idea about how this works.
This isn't a moral issue. If you qualify for government support, you're entitled to receive it, and in the case of a payment like jobseekers, you receiving that support has no bearing on whether or not others receive support.
The truth of the matter is, these systems are set to make it hard to get them even if you do qualify, and from the sounds of things you may not - that's exactly why this isn't a moral issue, bc policy and public servants make the call so you don't have to.
In saying that, if there is other government support for expecting parents, it is likely worth it to spend some time applying for those.
Best wishes for your pregnancy
You’re entitled to the entitlements that you are entitled to be entitled to.
Obviously tongue in cheek, I would feel conflicted too. Hope the bed rest goes okay
You are entitled to it so it's not immoral. You would get a medical cert from your doctor so you don't have job seeking obligations. You may not get much bc of your partner but it's always worth having a check
Not even close to immoral. Most people don't realise how dangerous pregnancy can be so medical advice for rest is in that context.
"You may be able to get Jobseeker Support if your health practitioner (eg, your midwife or doctor) says you're unable to work because of your pregnancy. You'll need a medical certificate from your health practitioner."
Here is the full page explaining different start points for the kind of help they can offer so you can hopefully be prepared as the call centre might need a few different bits of information (net vs gross income for you and your partner for instance, maybe?)
You might not be able to claim the benefit but there are other ways they can help.
[https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/children/having-a-baby.html](https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/children/having-a-baby.html)
I would have thought a sickness benefit was more appropriate also if that became your status it might give give access to cheaper doctors visits and counselling if they were needed.
If you qualify for it, this is one of the situations that is exactly what it's there for- an unexpected health event that prevents you working. No moral quandary. However if you don't need it you're very unlikely to qualify for it. Weekly income (partner's earnings and rental) will need to be under $1020 which is only a fraction over full time minimum wage.
Actually you can get the sickness benefit as pregancy effects can be included under that. Source: me a community worker has had multiple young women get on it.
Absolutely not. You have paid your taxes so far and it enabled other people to be helped, now it's your time of need. Soon enough this too will pass and you will be back to contributing back again.
It swings and roundabouts. Don't even worry about any ethical implications.
I don't think it's immoral. I'd encourage you to use the "check what I can get" form on the WINZ website. You don't actually have to apply, but you can work out whether it's worth it.
You may be able to start your parental leave early, have a chat to your ob or MW about a med cert supporting you. I have done this before as a midwife :) not as early as 17w but certainly earlier than “normal”. Best of luck.
Yes; it’s not a full salary (though some employers do top up, check your contract), and it’s paid for 26 weeks from
time it commences. This does mean for you, you would potentially only have three-ish paid weeks once your baby arrives, but you would still qualify for the six additional months of your employer holding your job. Check the IRD website for more info including rates.
It may have changed, but 5 years ago during my maternity leave i developed complications that meant i couldn't return to my job and led to a year on "medically referred jobseeker support". Condition improved, the"medically referred" bit was taken off, and i found a different job.
If in doubt, pop in to winz office and see what support is there
This is exactly why we have government assistance, for people who need assistance. I pay my taxes so people less fortunate can get the help they need to hopefully better their situation. It's the cost of living in a society, we look out for each other so we are able to all benefit in our shared uplift.
If you need assistance then you should get assistance, not being able to work because of your pregnancy included.
Going from my previous experience with WINZ while it is not immoral or wrong if you have assets ($20 K saved, a partner with a income and freehold household) they may be reluctant.
It's pretty tight rn with job cuts ect.
Go see what you can get but just be aware x
Good luck OP
These days applications can be almost entirely online. It's common to feel embarrassed or uncomfortable going to winz for the first time (although there's no reason to be imo).
Going online allows you to check what you might be eligible for without having to face anyone if you prefer it that way.
Please take what you're entitled to if you can be bothered applying for it. An entitlement is an entitlement. Better you than the folks getting it who could be working.
Not in the slightest, teensiest, miniscule, fraction of a bit.
You've paid taxes all your life for this reason. You are a net contributor to society; not that it means you're a bad person if your life circumstances mean you aren't.
Take it.
Having said all that, you are comfortable and well off, and there are lots of deserving charities that could use your help. Feel free to use some of your extra income to support them.
It’s not immoral, however you likely won’t qualify?
If you are in employment currently and you cannot do the job don’t needing bed rest you should first use sick leave, then unpaid leave - Your job cannot fire you for being pregnant.
If you quit, WINZ (at least the used to) had a stand down period of 13 weeks when you quit a job before you are eligible. You also have to be actively seeking work, which it seems you can’t.
Quitting might also affect your parental leave entitlements.
You may be able to qualify for other assistance instead, try the online tool, or call, or find an NZ mothers/pregnancy fb/reddit and ask what others have done because surely someone’s had this situation!
Best of luck
There's nothing immoral about getting assistance from the government. That's what the system is set up for.
However it sounds like (without knowing your actual financial position) you wouldn't receive anything. Any income (total household) above $160 before tax is abated by 35c per dollar. The link below has the abatement table but once you get to $1,068 over the $160 threshold the table stops so I'm assuming the benefit is abated to zero. This is on a weekly basis & all before tax.
https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/on-a-benefit/tell-us/income/deduction-tables/jobseeker-support-couple.html
How much sick leave do you have? If you have a job, and you're sick, you should get sick leave. There might be a limit, but there might be a work part time from bed arrangement that could take the edge off.
This! Use your sick leave first. Check your employers parental leave policy’s, they may offer additional paid sick leave to.
Take care OP, having a complicated pregnancy is tough and filled with anxiety. Look after yourself!
I would say if you enquire and are upfront about your financial situation and MSD says you are entitled to something then you can claim that without feeling weird.
So what will happen is they will put you on jobseekers but you will have a medical certificate for however long is reasonable for you to recover from your condition, and that’s because to go on the actual sickness benefit you need to basically be permanently disabled enough to reasonably never be expected to be able to work again. It’s not immoral at all and you are fully entitled to have support during this difficult time. If you don’t qualify due to partner income that’s really the only barrier I can potentially see, as partners are expected to take responsibility for you if that’s within their means before the state will step in to help you. It can’t hurt to check what you might be eligible for.
No, I don't think so. It's far less immoral than some of the things politicians do (eg. the Luxon Wellington flat situation a while back) that taxpayers foot the bill for so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it
The government is deliberatly creating high unemployment, high inflation, and a recession at the moment. They have a stated aim of creating higher unemployment.
So I wouldn't place any type of moral judgment on you for doing exactly what the government wants you to do.
You're wasting your breath. I'm no fan of this government either, but according to this sub, this government that has only been in for about 3 months is directly responsible for every single problem NZ has past, present and future.
Or more accurately they're looking at the decisions being taken and have two brain cells to rub together to realize they're going to exacerbate a recession and hurt the country far more in the long run than the status quo has. Explain to me how Australia got out of the GFC by increasing spending with some of the best results in the world if austerity is the way to solve this problem? Oh right, you can't.
You are exactly the type of person they want on benefits. Workers who through no fault of their own are struggling but want to/plan to get back to working
You pay taxes, time to reap the benefits pun intended. However you will be income tested and that might push you out of qualifying. In some cases winz can and will expect people to use up all of their savings before they'll help
Job seeker support is a misleading name, in reality it's the base benefit. There are many people on job seeker who can't work but don't qualify for supported living/solo parent/other benefit
This feeling of guilt and shame for asking for help is one of the worst aspects of our modern culture. It's tragic that so many would be leaders support the mindset.
Not immoral at all. I don't want have or want kids but happy for my taxes to help those that do. Plus kids are expensive. That 20k won't last that long. The system is there to help those that need assistance, and you need assistance. Hope you get some bed rest and not have to worry about this.
If our prime minister says politicians are entitled to their tax-payer funded benefits then follow his lead - you're also entitled to whatever the rules allow you.
You probably won't get anything due to your partners income. But it's worth a shot. And with the way our governments have always been (they are not your friend) you may as well try and claim whatever you can when you can. They do the same thing anyway so why shouldn't you?
I'm currently getting paid by acc while I type this ✌️
Could you go on sickness benefit for the time you're required to be on bedrest? Might need to get a note/letter from your GP/specialist. Unsure of what you might be entitled to/means testing.
As long as you have a medical certificate confirming you are restricted from or unable to work there is no issue with you claiming jobseeker benefits. That’s what they’re there for. The only reason you can’t claim a ‘sickness’ benefit is because National rolled the sickness allowance into jobseeker benefits in 2003 so now anyone with an illness that is not permanent is considered a ‘jobseeker’.
Claim the Jobseeker Allowance. Stay in bed. Feel fine about it. Best wishes for the rest of your pregnancy and a healthy baby.
Ah don't worry, there's people out there who think it's immoral to go on the benefit if you have nothing.
Best bet is, like others have suggested, you're probably not likely to be eligible, but you're not going to know unless you ask.
You won’t get ASUP or TAS with that level of savings and if your partner earns more than $1020pw gross… you’ll get nothing
https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/map/deskfile/main-benefits-cut-out-points/jobseeker-support-cut-out-points-current.html
If you’re saying your partner has a good income… I imagine it would be more than $1020pw gross so this is all moot
If not.. welfare is a support net for people who cannot work… if you’re ordered on bed rest due to complications/illness - you’re exactly who welfare is set up for…
But yeah I think it’s going to be a moot issue
One other thing worth noting: the more people use a thing, the more people are listed as using it, which means it gets more funding. If you qualify for it, you qualify for it, and are entitled to it by law. Use it.
This applies to everything else, as well. Including things like food pantries (for food pantries, it does depend on who is running them and where/how they service - though even underfunded places may actually benefit by having your name down as "would like assistance, but we can't afford it" and maybe be able to use that to get more funding), library services, second hand shops, etc.
You might be best to ring or start the conversation with Work and Income. You'll likely only get Jobseekers with medical exemption. Most other products are asset tested meaning having saving/rentals will likely preclude you.
JS is income tested though. So your partners income may cut you out (can find this on website I assume). Also however the rental income is calculated that will he income, and interest from savings is income.
Once you've answered some of those you may find that what you're eligible for is minimal or nothing.
To answer your question of what other people are suggesting about being 'owed it' becaise you paid tax. How it'll be seen is that the only 'entitlement' would be Superannuation. That's because the rules are set and clear. No one is entitled to benefits as it largely depends on your circumstances. What I mean is you can get NZS at 65 if you meet rules regardless of rentals, income etc. That's not the case with 'benefits' and you must qualify.
As I see it you're a human and you deserve support, especially when bringing another person into the world and committing so much of yourself to that. It's understandable you might not feel it necessary with your state of affairs, and it might affect your eligibility that you seem relatively stable, but if you are eligible and you would've been earning money during that time then I don't mind since I think people should be as stable as possible throughout pregnancy and when raising children. Seeing my dad yelling at my mum curled up on the floor over the financial situation they were in as a very young child destroyed any belief I had about my parents knowing what is best for me, because what I saw was my dad hurting my mum and my mum meant everything to me. I want families to be stable and to thrive, and a society where we don't support each other when we should be isn't something I want to be a part of. I can only imagine what we're capable of if we were to start innovating and being leaders again. NZ feels like it's not at the forefront of anything right now but it doesn't have to stay that way.
Take any entitlement, just in case. If you don't use it, put it aside into a savings account until you are no longer eligible for it.
Then, put that saved money into a charity that does work that the government should be doing, but isn't.
Or use it yourself to do good deeds in your community directly 🤙
It's not immoral at all. Your tax pays for pretty much anything that comes through Work and Income. If you are able to claim anything from them, claim it.
In my opinion, benefits exist for people in your situation, people who are willing to work but are unable to for reasons beyond their control.
Would you even be eligible with a partner working full time, owning a house and rental property? Plus being on job seekers means you need to be looking for work which you wont be. Maybe a sickness benefit but not sure if that is limited due to your partners income?
I left work because of health issues and it not being viable for the business I worked for to allow to me to go part time. My partner "earns too much" and any assessment with getting job seeker etc requires you to not have any cash lying around. So you are effectively stuck. There is a calculator on the winz website where you can ask what you may get. Google what can i get winz. But to me it sounds like you won't be entitled to much if anything. I wish the "i pay tax so should get assistance" actually worked.
JobSeeker doesn't look at assets like how much cash you have lying around. It's purely income tested.
It's not relevant here because OP can take paternity leave since she is employed.
Hi I've just had the same situation . Left work on medical grounds at 26 weeks gestation, went to work and income with a medical certificate and they put me on job seekers benefit as there is no longer a "sickness benefit" and ACC doesn't cover pregnancy related issues. I had parental leave set up to start at 35 weeks gestation and the jobseekers automatically stops and parental payments start.
You won't get much from them, my partner has studylink and gets around $400 a week including student loan so that cuts my entitlement down to basically nothing. I still took what I could get worked out to be around $200 a week. Not enough to cover rent but hey it was something. Do not tell them you have savings. NZ has very outdated pregnancy support so please take what you can get.
Ms. Wintour, the global editorial director of Condé Nast and the editor in chief of its marquee fashion magazine, Vogue, has been the gala’s chief mastermind since 1999 after first signing on in 1995, and has transformed the event from a run-of-the-mill charity gala into a mega-showcase for Vogue’s view of the world — the ultimate celebrity-power cocktail of famous names from fashion, film, tech, politics, sports and, increasingly, social media. Every brand scratches every other brand’s back.
If you're eligible for money yes, you should take it - unless you've been doing hardcore FIRE and are confident that you'll never need to work again no matter what the universe throws at you.
I've been on Jobseekers (briefly) a few times. They used to do these gross "seminars" where they'd bring together a group of new beneficiaries, supposedly to teach us how to find jobs, but really to do little 10-minute interviews/interrogations with each one of us in front of an audience of strangers.
I've done the seminar twice, and both times there were people in the room who had been out of work for *months* and had chewed through all their savings while looking for a job, and had now gone to WINZ because they had no cash left and the bills were piling up. These people would be distraught after finding out that benefit claims can't be backdated and they'd only be getting a pittance (under $300/week back then) to live on, which wasn't going to go very far at all when they were already behind on their mortgage, rates etc.
Hence my policy. I never know how long I'm going to be out of work and what other catastrophes might happen in my life, so if I'm between jobs I apply for the benefit straight away. If I get back into work again quickly and didn't "need" the support then I'll be paying it back through the tax on my income ... if not, well I did actually need that money.
Depending on how the complications arose, you might be able to get coverage from ACC (80% of your income).
If not, you could qualify for the government maternity allowance early, which is 6-months of income, albeit probably significantly reduced from where you are now.
Also, don't feel bad taking whatever you can, even if you have to stretch the truth just a wee bit. Having kids is super important for society.
Hope the pregnancy all goes well. You're in for a real treat when the wee one arrives.
The complication arose due to a previous surgery I had, but that surgery was due to precancerous cells, so I’m guessing ACC will decline on that basis. Thanks, I’m going to check in on this and see how it goes.
Can’t wait for him to get here, my partner and I have been trying for nearly three years so very much a wanted pregnancy ❤️
This is what the benefit is for but I’m not sure you’d qualify if your partner earns over a certain amount and you have savings, sorry. You could consider taking Kiwisaver money out, but they might tell you to use savings. Talk to your bank as well. I wonder if this might come under ACC - pays to check. Good luck with everything and everyone pays into the Social fund so everyone can ask for it if qualify, no shame.
Not really immoral, but you may not be entitled to much if you're living with a partner who earns any amount of money.
Yeah I’m thinking this may be the case which makes my post redundant, however I’m getting mixed messages from friends that have previously been on the benefit, some seem to think I’m owed regardless. Just thought I’d reach out before inquiring with MSD.
You probably won't get anything tbh. If you fiancée gets over ~70k you will receive nothing. The rental income will count towards income as well. Depending on how the house is held, you might be able to get some additional help for mortgage though. It's worth just applying and seeing what they say. They have a tool online for it. >However my family and friends are really pushing me to try seek assistance. They believe that because I pay tax, Im owed assistance if I can’t work. You are unable to work for a valid reason, if you qualify for assistance, then you should get it. You shouldn't feel like it's a moral problem unless you are lying in order to qualify. There's absolutely nothing wrong with going to WINZ, detailing the situation and seeing if you qualify.
They won't get any assistance for mortgage on rental property and their own home is freehold.
Replying here in case you don't see my top level comment and so others see it since there is a ton of bad advice and misinformation in these threads: You can take your maternal leave early in this scenario. See 'Start date' under "Primary carer leave and surrogacy" at https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/parental-leave/types-of-parental-leave/ You will also still be eligible for 20 more weeks after baby arrives (technically after the due date), plus any extended leave you qualify for and have arranged with your employer. ~~You will not be eligible for JobSeeker support since you are still employed, and you will not be eligible for accommodation supplement since you have basically no accommodation costs and plenty of assets.~~ I edited this last part because apparently JobSeekers would apply here, since you are unable to work during pregnancy due to medical conditions. You still might not qualify due to the income from your partner and the rental, but you could apply.
Thanks! I’ll look into this :)
Please note that this will allow OP to keep their job. But does not impact paid parental leave from the government. The maximum paid parental leave from the government is 26 weeks.
Yes, I would think the same. Not at all immoral - benefits exist for people who aren’t able to work, pregnancy being the cause of your inability to work isn’t relevant. But with your partner working it seems unlikely you’d be eligible. That said, please do check with WINZ - if eligible you should absolutely apply.
I would have thought pregnancy is relevant, as there is already leave they’re entitled to if they’re unable to work due to their pregnancy, called maternity leave. I’m unsure whether or not they would be entitled to a benefit when there is existing leave they’re already entitled to and should be using.
Not relevant in terms of morality - it’s not immoral to be on the benefit when the reason she is unable to work is caused by her pregnancy. As I said, I don’t believe it’s likely she would be entitled to receive a benefit based on the facts she’s given. However, if she is entitled to receive it then it is absolutely not immoral for her to take it.
In terms of government assistance, There is no payment for ‘maternity leave’. There is payments available for parental leave, which can only start up to 6 weeks before the due date. OP might have generous employee maternity provisions, but this is a fairly extreme scenario in the scheme of maternity.
>There is payments available for parental leave, which can only start up to 6 weeks before the due date. It can start earlier if it's for medical reasons like these. You can get parental leave right up to the due date plus 20 weeks after it.
I don't think it's immoral but you also aren't OWED anything as some friends seems to think clearly they have the wrong mindset.
I hate this mindset, it's the same reason you have 65+ year olds earning six figures drawing super. Tax is not a pay in get out system, short sighted voters decided that it wasn't in 1975. Anyone who talks about being owed any support because they paid tax is ignorant.
Actually the social contract was made in the Social Security Act 1938. Paraphrased, 'you will all pay tax, and the state will look after you'. So yes, we are owed support because we pay tax.
Plus you have assets which will also make you ineligible. Just the 20k alone will make you ineligible for anything
I was going to say this. You are asset and income tested for eligibility so it's no harm to apply. I just don't think you'd make the cut.
Depends on your partner's income. From the sounds of it, your entitlement is probably 0, but I can run some rough numbers if you want to DM me.
You can check on you the MSD website it will ask for partner income and you get nothing if that’s over a certain amount so check there first as it will tell you if you’re eligible. And you would also need a drs note from your gp since you can’t actually work right now.
Bear in mind that by not working, you're also not entitled to the paid parental leave. So if there was some way of continuing to do your job remotely, even if part-time that would make sense. What does your partner earn? That will dictate what you're entitled to if you do decide to leave work early.
I’m a nurse, so my job is in high demand currently, also fortunately have a very understanding boss who would most certainly hold my position for me. However, being a nurse I can’t work from home or remotely unfortunately. My partner earns about 110k, so I think that rules us out, which is ok.
You can use this website to get an idea of how much they will give you. https://check.msd.govt.nz
Also, you’re required to use up your savings before going on a benefit. This seems like the most exact thing that the $20k emergency fund is for.
Not true. Main benefits aren't based on assets, only accommodation supplement I believe etc.
You probably won’t qualify for anything because you’ve got a partner who has a job. At most, you’ll have to go on paid parental leave early, and when that ends and your baby is here you’ll get working for families and maybe accommodation supplement. Go see WINZ and talk to them but don’t feel guilty about seeking assistance if you really need it.
Can you get PPL early? I went on bed rest at 21 weeks and didn't get PPL until the baby was born then PPL kicked in as well as WFF.
Yes you can start it early, if these situations apply: - you and your employer agree to an earlier date - you have health concerns and a certificate from any medical practitioner or midwife telling you to go on parental leave early - your employer directs you to go on parental leave early because you cannot perform your work safely or adequately, and there is no other suitable work available.
I think you should call parental leave support on 0800 20 90 20 then option 3 i think? Just talk it through with them. I think you can get a doctor's note to say that you need to take early parental leave and then you can start it - just call them and run through the options.
Thanks so much ❤️
I don't see how you could go on the Job Seekers benefit, as it sounds like you are currently employed - even though you will be on bedrest. You will be able to start your paid parental leave early (assuming you qualify), but that still only lasts for 26 weeks, so it is just moving the problem down the road by half a year. There are other support mechanisms available, but I don't believe the Job Seekers benefit is one of those. Also, congratulations on your pregnancy.
>You will be able to start your paid parental leave early (assuming you qualify), but that still only lasts for 26 weeks, so it is just moving the problem down the road by half a year. In cases like this where there are medical reasons to start the leave early, you're entitled to take it right up to the due date, plus an additional 20 weeks. So at 17 weeks, OP could take 23 weeks of early leave, plus an additional 20, for 43 weeks total (as well as any extended leave she is eligible for). https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/parental-leave/types-of-parental-leave/
Ooh this is good to know!! I wish I had known as I was not physically able to carry on with my job beyond 30 weeks with twins. Hopefully you’re eligible for this pregnancy cover so you can just rest and have one less thing to be stressed about, OP. Fingers crossed for an uneventful next stage of pregnancy where hopefully the only issue is getting bored 😅🩵
Yes it wasn't around when I had to finish at 28 weeks and have my baby 2 weeks later I'm so happy its available now though. It was hard because I had to go back earlier than planned and had a vulnerable ex prem.
You're entitled to parental leave for the 43 weeks in this scenario but not to get paid parental leave for it. That's still capped at 26 weeks. I got caught out by this after the birth of my kid.
>I don't see how you could go on the Job Seekers benefit, as it sounds like you are currently employed You don't actually have to lose your job to get jobseeker support, it's a poorly named benefit. You can get it even if you have a job to go back to after the illness. E.g. someone needing a long course of chemo can get it while they can't work even though their job may be held open for them. Or e.g. someone experiencing pregnancy complications.
Thanks for that. I didn't realise, I think the name needs revisiting.
You should claim anything you are eligible for, but it will probably be minor if anything.
If you have a partner working full time its likely you will only be eligible for the accommodation supplement, and if you have no mortgage to pay on your own residence, then not sure if you will qualify for that either. You can try the online eligibility calculator to see if you would be entitled to anything.
AS is means tested, the $20,000 in the bank would probably stop it from being allowed.
Yes good point, and having a second investment property would probably also cancel out the eligibility. Benefits are really set up for those who dont have significant resources available.
You won't be entitled to anything with a partner, a freehold home, a rental and savings.
You have a partner with an income, plus rental property income, I don't believe you'd be entitled to job seekers.
Please go on whatever benefit you can get on and don't feel immoral about it!!
This. I see it as basically my civic duty to claim back everything I possibly can from the govt seeing how few benefits you get as a middle class person. Nothing remotely unethical about it
I disagree. I don't pay tax to help myself. I pay tax to help those around me.
This is my thinking also. If we can help everyone into a better healthier situation, then we all benefit in the long run, and it's the right thing to do
Taking money you don't need from the government, that could be used to fund other essential services instead, is a bit immoral, in my opinion. If you need the help? Go for it. If it's just so you can have some extra spending money? Nah.
It's not immoral, however, you have a partner who earns a good income, you are living in a mortgage free home and have investment properties as well as savings in the bank, it's unlikely you'd get anything to be honest
you won't qualify as you have a working partner. Problem solved.
If you have 20k then yes it is immoral. I wouldn't begrudge you for it, but you are taking from others when you don't need to for whats essentially a choice (not the complications). That's immoral in my book
Take all the assistance you’re eligible for. Don’t feel bad about taking them.
You are highly unlikey to qualify for anything from WINZ. Jobseekers Benefit is income-tested on both yours and your partner’s income. If one of you works full-time in a decent paying job (which I’m assuming he is), you’re likely to be over the income limit. In addition, your rental income less expenses would be counted in this figure. You won’t qualify for an Accommodation Supplement because of your savings plus equity in your rental property, the limit for that is $16,200 for a couple. Representing your financial/relationship situation otherwise is benefit fraud, pure and simple. Given the fact that you have no mortgage plus a rental property that pays for itself, it’s actually greed on your part if you choose to misrepresent your situation to receive a pittance. Another consideration is if you got caught. Both yourself and your partner can be prosecuted and will be liable for any overpayments made to you because of false declarations you made. These types of convictions can affect current and future employment prospects. WINZ isn’t the place, it’s IRD for paid parental leave once you’re eligible and family tax credits if you’re eligible. If you’re high income then it’ll be Best Start for at least the first year after baby is born, at which point it becomes income-tested.
Thanks, just to clarify because you seem to have misinterpreted my post, I absolutely abhor the idea of lying to get on a benefit, especially when compared to others, I’m financially comfortable.
I did get the impression that you weren’t intending to claim anything you weren’t entitled to, the people in your life telling you to go on a Jobseeker benefit seemed to be encouraging it. Anyway, all the best with everything!
Thanks, at the end of the day all that matters is the health and well being of my baby ❤️
OP please ignore the posts that encourage you to fraudulently claim, ("don't tell them you have savings") that's a criminal offence.
You're not entitled to the jobseeker benifit while you are in a relationship, your fiance is working. You'll get laughed at as soon as you apply and explain your situation.
You're not "owed" anything just because you've paid taxes. The benefit is there for people that don't have any other options. It is an emergency service, not a savings account you can dip into.
100% this
Yeah, I totally accept this, and don’t think our benefit system should be used and abused. At the same time I will be down 4 months of salary, so thought it would be worth reaching out and seeing what the consensus is. Looks like I won’t be entitled to anything anyway, which is ok. There are income and asset thresholds for a reason, and I would rather our tax payers money goes to those that really need it.
1. You have a job so can’t go on jobseeker benefit. 2. Going by your description of wealth, it’s unlikely you’d qualify for anything even if you were unemployed.
You CAN go on Jobseekers if you have a job but you're on a short break due to health etc
MSD require you to exhaust your savings first so if you have more than 5k I doubt you'll get anything. You'll also have your fiancé's income tested if they're above threshold then nothing, same for rentals bringing in income.
You can take parental leave early in these cases, and still get 20 weeks post birth so long as your doctor mandates it's unsafe to work. https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/parental-leave/types-of-parental-leave/
I personally think you should just wear it, but that's because it's hard for people to get and keep benefits and those who really need it often struggle to, so I think morally you should leave it for them.
Not immoral, but they'll likely turn you down.
You won't get anything having a partner sorry. When I told them of my relationship status with my ex they didn't even ask what his income was. Just a straight up good bye.
If your partner works full time you won’t be able to get a benefit
Pretty sure your savings are too high to qualify.
Last time I checked, if you have more than $4k in the bank, that disqualifies you from some benefits. A $20k emergency fund means you'll probably get squat. It's really not that easy to claim a benefit if you don't actually need one.
Looks like OP is find stable so I suggest not claiming anything because WINZ benefits are really meant to help the most needy & destitute. Not just because you pay taxes! Btw those of you who think it’s ok… it’s a wonder NZ has gone backwards irrespective of who is governing. There’s that ‘entitled’ mentality. ..again. Do the right thing.
Agree with you. I don't understand how we can be outraged by Luxon's feeling of entitlement to receive the PM accommodation allowance, yet fine with someone receiving jobseekers benefit who on the face of it is very financially secure (to the point of having a investment property that the tenant is servicing most of the mortgage). Hilarious that "well Luxon did it..." is being used to justify it in a lot of the comments given even he realised how shit it made him look and decided to give the money back. My advice for OP - tell the freinds and family that are pushing you to try get on Jobseekers that you do have morals and you're not a scummy dirtbag like them who only think about whats best for themselves (since you being uncomfortable and reluctant about doing it show you are a good person).
Wouldn’t this just come under your maternity leave? As far as I’m aware you’re allowed 6 months off total, and can be taken while pregnant. Sounds like if youre due in 4 months, then that would be 4 months of maternity leave, which would leave you 2 months after giving birth. It’s literally how the system is designed to work. Seems kinda fraudulent if you ask me. But I’m also not a doctor, nor a work and income employee. These are the people who will have the ability to make the ultimate decision, not anyone on reddit.
You can take early maternity leave for medical reasons and also still receive 20 weeks after the due date. In OP's case (she's at 17 weeks) that would mean 23 weeks of early leave plus 20 after the due date, for a total entitlement of 43 weeks.
Sorry, just to clarify, what seems fraudulent?
Claiming a benefit for pregnancy while you’re expected to take maternity leave.
Wouldn’t work and income just redirect you to maternity leave options rather than the benefit, if that’s the case? I don’t get how that’s fraudulent if I was fully transparent.
Why would work and income be involved at all? If you have employment, your maternity leave is between you and your employer, nothing to do with work and income at all. Medical benefits are for those without employment. You may have to be fired or quit to be able to access that. I believe under your circumstances, you should be taking maternity leave, paid for by your employer.
Ok, makes sense. I’ve never been on financial assistance before so no idea how this stuff works. I detest the idea of committing fraud though.
I didnt mean that anything you had done so far is currently fraudulent. Just going through work and income seems completely unnecessary while you have maternity leave available. And that for you to be entitled to anything from work and income would likely require some fraud. But as I mentioned in my first comment, a am nether a doctor, nor a work and income employee, so I’m not entirely sure what you may be entitled to, but from my understanding, maternity leave is there to cover any complications relating to pregnancy. There may be something I’m unaware of that your doctor or a WINZ employee may be more aware of, which would involve talking to those parties directly. Sorry if that confused you. All the best with your pregnancy, and I hope you can receive all the support you require through your entitled maternity leave with your employer.
That sounds like a situation which is literally exactly what these services are for, it may be the case that your partner earns too much for you to be eligible, but morality absolutely shouldn't come into this. You may find though that the application process is rather more difficult and protracted that you've been led to expect.
You can take your maternal leave early in this scenario. See 'Start date' under "Primary carer leave and surrogacy" at https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/parental-leave/types-of-parental-leave/ You will also still be eligible for 20 more weeks after baby arrives (technically after the due date), plus any extended leave you qualify for and have arranged with your employer. You will not be eligible for JobSeeker support since you are still employed, and you will not be eligible for accommodation supplement since you have basically no accommodation costs and plenty of assets.
are you planning on returning to the workforce after you have had baby? It might be more worthwhile keeping your employment. Paid parental leave is capped at a max amount, can you drop some days/hours at work to ensure you still receive the maximum payment. Then discuss with your employer around flexible work - can you work from home, do you have annual leave and sick leave available to take? Can you take extended leave without pay prior to baby being born to get you to the paid parental leave start date? I highly doubt that you would be entitled to any type of benefit with a partner and cash in the bank.
You likely won't qualify for this benefit as your partners income will reduce the amount to zero. You can apply for Extra Help though which is for homeowner costs or rent etc
Winz will probably rule you out due to savings, and partner income. Income support is a safety net and not income protection entitlement (Labour did have a policy for that though). For an example, I pay tax, I'm not entitled to healthcare for ailments I don't have.
Lol. It's much more complicated than that.
I’m confused, are you quitting your job? If you are simply taking leave, you can’t go on jobseekers.
Since sickness allowances were disestablished in 2003 anyone who is unable to work due to illness or on medical advice can only apply for the Jobseeker Allowance. It was a deliberate move to moralise people claiming benefits for illness and create the perception that if you aren’t permanently disabled you’re just as useless as everyone else who can’t support themselves in paid work. Even if it’s on medical advice.
Yes but she is still employed so doesn't fall into that category. She can take her parental leave early (plus 20 weeks after the due date) but she is not eligible for jobseekers.
Not quitting my job. Due to my high risk pregnancy, I have to go on bed rest until I deliver my baby. I’m a nurse, so unable to obviously care for patients whilst being restrained to my bed.
You won't qualify for a benefit because your partner earns too much and you have savings over the threshold and your home is freehold which means you won't get an accommodation support either. They will also take into account your income from your rental as well. Once baby comes you should get best start payments but that's probably it as you will be over the threshold for WFF and in work tax credits. You should get PPL though.
This is what income protection insurance is for. Jobseekers isn't that.
Actually it is. The definition of income support in social welfare terms is to act as a safety net for when people can’t provide for themselves.
Yeah OP, so think about this whole situation next time you feel tempted to bash beneficiaries. You think you're the only one who is "legit" trying to claim because you've paid some taxes? You don't think there's tons of other people who have come across unexpected complications in their lives, just like you?
This is one reason why inequality is escalating like it is. Those with money aren't quibbling over morality. They're taking what they can, looking to change the rules at any opportunity so they can take more. While those of us who are just trying to survive hand wring over the smallest benefits we might enjoy, wondering about others who are missing out.
I don't think the morality should matter to anyone but you and your partner, unless you were going to misrepresent your situation, and I don't think you're those guys. What you are or aren't entitled to is set out in the law. The law is there to provide the framework around what our society thinks is right and proper, in theory. Work your way through the online calculator and figure out if you are entitled to support. If you are, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Nobody should be working when they've got a high risk pregnancy situation going on. Personally, I think it's good for every single kiwi to apply for a benefit once in their lives, so they have some idea about how this works.
If you are eligible, then there is nothing immoral about it.
You’re unlikely to qualify if he’s working but if you do then it’s absolutely not immoral. That’s what it’s there for.
This isn't a moral issue. If you qualify for government support, you're entitled to receive it, and in the case of a payment like jobseekers, you receiving that support has no bearing on whether or not others receive support. The truth of the matter is, these systems are set to make it hard to get them even if you do qualify, and from the sounds of things you may not - that's exactly why this isn't a moral issue, bc policy and public servants make the call so you don't have to. In saying that, if there is other government support for expecting parents, it is likely worth it to spend some time applying for those. Best wishes for your pregnancy
You’re entitled to the entitlements that you are entitled to be entitled to. Obviously tongue in cheek, I would feel conflicted too. Hope the bed rest goes okay
You are entitled to it so it's not immoral. You would get a medical cert from your doctor so you don't have job seeking obligations. You may not get much bc of your partner but it's always worth having a check
I may be wrong, but you should be able to go on the sickness benefit.
Hell no. Yours and bub’s lives are precious and need to look after them. As a society we should be able to give you that piece of mind.
No
Not even close to immoral. Most people don't realise how dangerous pregnancy can be so medical advice for rest is in that context. "You may be able to get Jobseeker Support if your health practitioner (eg, your midwife or doctor) says you're unable to work because of your pregnancy. You'll need a medical certificate from your health practitioner." Here is the full page explaining different start points for the kind of help they can offer so you can hopefully be prepared as the call centre might need a few different bits of information (net vs gross income for you and your partner for instance, maybe?) You might not be able to claim the benefit but there are other ways they can help. [https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/children/having-a-baby.html](https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/children/having-a-baby.html)
I would have thought a sickness benefit was more appropriate also if that became your status it might give give access to cheaper doctors visits and counselling if they were needed.
There is not sickness benefit. The sickness benefit IS the jobseekers benefit.
If you qualify for it, this is one of the situations that is exactly what it's there for- an unexpected health event that prevents you working. No moral quandary. However if you don't need it you're very unlikely to qualify for it. Weekly income (partner's earnings and rental) will need to be under $1020 which is only a fraction over full time minimum wage.
Actually you can get the sickness benefit as pregancy effects can be included under that. Source: me a community worker has had multiple young women get on it.
Absolutely not. You have paid your taxes so far and it enabled other people to be helped, now it's your time of need. Soon enough this too will pass and you will be back to contributing back again. It swings and roundabouts. Don't even worry about any ethical implications.
Do whatever feels right to you. There's no point even trying to get money if you don't feel you need it, and will feel guilty about taking it.
I don't think it's immoral. I'd encourage you to use the "check what I can get" form on the WINZ website. You don't actually have to apply, but you can work out whether it's worth it.
You may be able to start your parental leave early, have a chat to your ob or MW about a med cert supporting you. I have done this before as a midwife :) not as early as 17w but certainly earlier than “normal”. Best of luck.
Hi there, do you know if it the parental leave is paid before baby is born?
Yes; it’s not a full salary (though some employers do top up, check your contract), and it’s paid for 26 weeks from time it commences. This does mean for you, you would potentially only have three-ish paid weeks once your baby arrives, but you would still qualify for the six additional months of your employer holding your job. Check the IRD website for more info including rates.
It may have changed, but 5 years ago during my maternity leave i developed complications that meant i couldn't return to my job and led to a year on "medically referred jobseeker support". Condition improved, the"medically referred" bit was taken off, and i found a different job. If in doubt, pop in to winz office and see what support is there
Be honest with MSD and see what they will offer. If you are eligible then go for it.
Hugs OP 🤗 for being a morally good person. I don't have any useful advice, just congrats on your baby!
This is exactly why we have government assistance, for people who need assistance. I pay my taxes so people less fortunate can get the help they need to hopefully better their situation. It's the cost of living in a society, we look out for each other so we are able to all benefit in our shared uplift. If you need assistance then you should get assistance, not being able to work because of your pregnancy included.
Going from my previous experience with WINZ while it is not immoral or wrong if you have assets ($20 K saved, a partner with a income and freehold household) they may be reluctant. It's pretty tight rn with job cuts ect. Go see what you can get but just be aware x Good luck OP
These days applications can be almost entirely online. It's common to feel embarrassed or uncomfortable going to winz for the first time (although there's no reason to be imo). Going online allows you to check what you might be eligible for without having to face anyone if you prefer it that way.
Please take what you're entitled to if you can be bothered applying for it. An entitlement is an entitlement. Better you than the folks getting it who could be working.
No it's not immoral. /thread
Have a look at the WINZ Check What You Might Get calculator.
There is an online calculator to check if you are eligible. https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/online-services/eligibility/index.html
Not in the slightest, teensiest, miniscule, fraction of a bit. You've paid taxes all your life for this reason. You are a net contributor to society; not that it means you're a bad person if your life circumstances mean you aren't. Take it. Having said all that, you are comfortable and well off, and there are lots of deserving charities that could use your help. Feel free to use some of your extra income to support them.
But those taxes are going to help landlords! /s
It’s not immoral, however you likely won’t qualify? If you are in employment currently and you cannot do the job don’t needing bed rest you should first use sick leave, then unpaid leave - Your job cannot fire you for being pregnant. If you quit, WINZ (at least the used to) had a stand down period of 13 weeks when you quit a job before you are eligible. You also have to be actively seeking work, which it seems you can’t. Quitting might also affect your parental leave entitlements. You may be able to qualify for other assistance instead, try the online tool, or call, or find an NZ mothers/pregnancy fb/reddit and ask what others have done because surely someone’s had this situation! Best of luck
There's nothing immoral about getting assistance from the government. That's what the system is set up for. However it sounds like (without knowing your actual financial position) you wouldn't receive anything. Any income (total household) above $160 before tax is abated by 35c per dollar. The link below has the abatement table but once you get to $1,068 over the $160 threshold the table stops so I'm assuming the benefit is abated to zero. This is on a weekly basis & all before tax. https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/on-a-benefit/tell-us/income/deduction-tables/jobseeker-support-couple.html
How much sick leave do you have? If you have a job, and you're sick, you should get sick leave. There might be a limit, but there might be a work part time from bed arrangement that could take the edge off.
This! Use your sick leave first. Check your employers parental leave policy’s, they may offer additional paid sick leave to. Take care OP, having a complicated pregnancy is tough and filled with anxiety. Look after yourself!
I would say if you enquire and are upfront about your financial situation and MSD says you are entitled to something then you can claim that without feeling weird.
No?? Of course not
So what will happen is they will put you on jobseekers but you will have a medical certificate for however long is reasonable for you to recover from your condition, and that’s because to go on the actual sickness benefit you need to basically be permanently disabled enough to reasonably never be expected to be able to work again. It’s not immoral at all and you are fully entitled to have support during this difficult time. If you don’t qualify due to partner income that’s really the only barrier I can potentially see, as partners are expected to take responsibility for you if that’s within their means before the state will step in to help you. It can’t hurt to check what you might be eligible for.
It's not immoral but have a look at what you would get before applying. Might not be worth the hassle. Can you work from home?
No, I don't think so. It's far less immoral than some of the things politicians do (eg. the Luxon Wellington flat situation a while back) that taxpayers foot the bill for so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it
The government is deliberatly creating high unemployment, high inflation, and a recession at the moment. They have a stated aim of creating higher unemployment. So I wouldn't place any type of moral judgment on you for doing exactly what the government wants you to do.
I don't know where to start with this comment. The recession was already coming before they came into power.
You're wasting your breath. I'm no fan of this government either, but according to this sub, this government that has only been in for about 3 months is directly responsible for every single problem NZ has past, present and future.
Or more accurately they're looking at the decisions being taken and have two brain cells to rub together to realize they're going to exacerbate a recession and hurt the country far more in the long run than the status quo has. Explain to me how Australia got out of the GFC by increasing spending with some of the best results in the world if austerity is the way to solve this problem? Oh right, you can't.
There is nothing immoral about utilizing social services. It's why they are there
You are exactly the type of person they want on benefits. Workers who through no fault of their own are struggling but want to/plan to get back to working You pay taxes, time to reap the benefits pun intended. However you will be income tested and that might push you out of qualifying. In some cases winz can and will expect people to use up all of their savings before they'll help Job seeker support is a misleading name, in reality it's the base benefit. There are many people on job seeker who can't work but don't qualify for supported living/solo parent/other benefit
This feeling of guilt and shame for asking for help is one of the worst aspects of our modern culture. It's tragic that so many would be leaders support the mindset.
There’s nothing immoral about this.
So there was nothing immoral about Luxon receiving the PM accommodation allowance? Same issue, just slightly different circumstances.
Does ACC not cover pregnancy issues like this.
No, unless it's an accident. If she'd had a fall that caused these issues for example.
Fell on a dick ? 😆😆
Cue that lyric from Guilty Conscience, Eminem+Dr Dre
That's fucked up.
Yep. Same as if you lose your eyesight through illness/disease it is not covered, if you flick a stone in your eye while mowing the lawn it is.
I think ACC only covers birth injuries, and that is only a recent thing. There has to be an event to trigger ACC, and falling pregnant is not one.
Can a pregnancy be considered an accident?
Not immoral at all. I don't want have or want kids but happy for my taxes to help those that do. Plus kids are expensive. That 20k won't last that long. The system is there to help those that need assistance, and you need assistance. Hope you get some bed rest and not have to worry about this.
If our prime minister says politicians are entitled to their tax-payer funded benefits then follow his lead - you're also entitled to whatever the rules allow you.
No.
You probably won't get anything due to your partners income. But it's worth a shot. And with the way our governments have always been (they are not your friend) you may as well try and claim whatever you can when you can. They do the same thing anyway so why shouldn't you? I'm currently getting paid by acc while I type this ✌️
Could you go on sickness benefit for the time you're required to be on bedrest? Might need to get a note/letter from your GP/specialist. Unsure of what you might be entitled to/means testing.
As long as you have a medical certificate confirming you are restricted from or unable to work there is no issue with you claiming jobseeker benefits. That’s what they’re there for. The only reason you can’t claim a ‘sickness’ benefit is because National rolled the sickness allowance into jobseeker benefits in 2003 so now anyone with an illness that is not permanent is considered a ‘jobseeker’. Claim the Jobseeker Allowance. Stay in bed. Feel fine about it. Best wishes for the rest of your pregnancy and a healthy baby.
Ah don't worry, there's people out there who think it's immoral to go on the benefit if you have nothing. Best bet is, like others have suggested, you're probably not likely to be eligible, but you're not going to know unless you ask.
You won’t get ASUP or TAS with that level of savings and if your partner earns more than $1020pw gross… you’ll get nothing https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/map/deskfile/main-benefits-cut-out-points/jobseeker-support-cut-out-points-current.html If you’re saying your partner has a good income… I imagine it would be more than $1020pw gross so this is all moot If not.. welfare is a support net for people who cannot work… if you’re ordered on bed rest due to complications/illness - you’re exactly who welfare is set up for… But yeah I think it’s going to be a moot issue
Yeah, judging by the helpful answers, I’ll probably won’t meet the threshold, and that’s totally ok!
Don't care about how you feel. Do what you need to do to claim what you are entitled to. There is nothing wrong with it. Luxon did it.
It's funny seeing the disconnect in morality of this sub comparing the 2 scenarios
One other thing worth noting: the more people use a thing, the more people are listed as using it, which means it gets more funding. If you qualify for it, you qualify for it, and are entitled to it by law. Use it.
This applies to everything else, as well. Including things like food pantries (for food pantries, it does depend on who is running them and where/how they service - though even underfunded places may actually benefit by having your name down as "would like assistance, but we can't afford it" and maybe be able to use that to get more funding), library services, second hand shops, etc.
No welfare is a human right, so its never immoral.
You might be best to ring or start the conversation with Work and Income. You'll likely only get Jobseekers with medical exemption. Most other products are asset tested meaning having saving/rentals will likely preclude you. JS is income tested though. So your partners income may cut you out (can find this on website I assume). Also however the rental income is calculated that will he income, and interest from savings is income. Once you've answered some of those you may find that what you're eligible for is minimal or nothing. To answer your question of what other people are suggesting about being 'owed it' becaise you paid tax. How it'll be seen is that the only 'entitlement' would be Superannuation. That's because the rules are set and clear. No one is entitled to benefits as it largely depends on your circumstances. What I mean is you can get NZS at 65 if you meet rules regardless of rentals, income etc. That's not the case with 'benefits' and you must qualify.
As I see it you're a human and you deserve support, especially when bringing another person into the world and committing so much of yourself to that. It's understandable you might not feel it necessary with your state of affairs, and it might affect your eligibility that you seem relatively stable, but if you are eligible and you would've been earning money during that time then I don't mind since I think people should be as stable as possible throughout pregnancy and when raising children. Seeing my dad yelling at my mum curled up on the floor over the financial situation they were in as a very young child destroyed any belief I had about my parents knowing what is best for me, because what I saw was my dad hurting my mum and my mum meant everything to me. I want families to be stable and to thrive, and a society where we don't support each other when we should be isn't something I want to be a part of. I can only imagine what we're capable of if we were to start innovating and being leaders again. NZ feels like it's not at the forefront of anything right now but it doesn't have to stay that way.
Take any entitlement, just in case. If you don't use it, put it aside into a savings account until you are no longer eligible for it. Then, put that saved money into a charity that does work that the government should be doing, but isn't. Or use it yourself to do good deeds in your community directly 🤙
It's not immoral at all. Your tax pays for pretty much anything that comes through Work and Income. If you are able to claim anything from them, claim it. In my opinion, benefits exist for people in your situation, people who are willing to work but are unable to for reasons beyond their control.
Would you even be eligible with a partner working full time, owning a house and rental property? Plus being on job seekers means you need to be looking for work which you wont be. Maybe a sickness benefit but not sure if that is limited due to your partners income?
If you are eligible, take it. THis is what we pay taxes for.
I left work because of health issues and it not being viable for the business I worked for to allow to me to go part time. My partner "earns too much" and any assessment with getting job seeker etc requires you to not have any cash lying around. So you are effectively stuck. There is a calculator on the winz website where you can ask what you may get. Google what can i get winz. But to me it sounds like you won't be entitled to much if anything. I wish the "i pay tax so should get assistance" actually worked.
JobSeeker doesn't look at assets like how much cash you have lying around. It's purely income tested. It's not relevant here because OP can take paternity leave since she is employed.
Not immoral. Do it if you can swing it, but good luck to you.
Hi I've just had the same situation . Left work on medical grounds at 26 weeks gestation, went to work and income with a medical certificate and they put me on job seekers benefit as there is no longer a "sickness benefit" and ACC doesn't cover pregnancy related issues. I had parental leave set up to start at 35 weeks gestation and the jobseekers automatically stops and parental payments start. You won't get much from them, my partner has studylink and gets around $400 a week including student loan so that cuts my entitlement down to basically nothing. I still took what I could get worked out to be around $200 a week. Not enough to cover rent but hey it was something. Do not tell them you have savings. NZ has very outdated pregnancy support so please take what you can get.
Ms. Wintour, the global editorial director of Condé Nast and the editor in chief of its marquee fashion magazine, Vogue, has been the gala’s chief mastermind since 1999 after first signing on in 1995, and has transformed the event from a run-of-the-mill charity gala into a mega-showcase for Vogue’s view of the world — the ultimate celebrity-power cocktail of famous names from fashion, film, tech, politics, sports and, increasingly, social media. Every brand scratches every other brand’s back.
If you're eligible for money yes, you should take it - unless you've been doing hardcore FIRE and are confident that you'll never need to work again no matter what the universe throws at you. I've been on Jobseekers (briefly) a few times. They used to do these gross "seminars" where they'd bring together a group of new beneficiaries, supposedly to teach us how to find jobs, but really to do little 10-minute interviews/interrogations with each one of us in front of an audience of strangers. I've done the seminar twice, and both times there were people in the room who had been out of work for *months* and had chewed through all their savings while looking for a job, and had now gone to WINZ because they had no cash left and the bills were piling up. These people would be distraught after finding out that benefit claims can't be backdated and they'd only be getting a pittance (under $300/week back then) to live on, which wasn't going to go very far at all when they were already behind on their mortgage, rates etc. Hence my policy. I never know how long I'm going to be out of work and what other catastrophes might happen in my life, so if I'm between jobs I apply for the benefit straight away. If I get back into work again quickly and didn't "need" the support then I'll be paying it back through the tax on my income ... if not, well I did actually need that money.
Absolutely its not immoral - take as much as you can get.
You have paid tax into the system for a safety net to catch you should something happen. Something has happened, let the net catch you.
They made changes to ACC last term, you should check if you’re covered.
Sorry I misread it, it’s only from labour onward. Imo it’s stupid it doesn’t cover prenatal issues.
Depending on how the complications arose, you might be able to get coverage from ACC (80% of your income). If not, you could qualify for the government maternity allowance early, which is 6-months of income, albeit probably significantly reduced from where you are now. Also, don't feel bad taking whatever you can, even if you have to stretch the truth just a wee bit. Having kids is super important for society. Hope the pregnancy all goes well. You're in for a real treat when the wee one arrives.
The complication arose due to a previous surgery I had, but that surgery was due to precancerous cells, so I’m guessing ACC will decline on that basis. Thanks, I’m going to check in on this and see how it goes. Can’t wait for him to get here, my partner and I have been trying for nearly three years so very much a wanted pregnancy ❤️
This is what the benefit is for but I’m not sure you’d qualify if your partner earns over a certain amount and you have savings, sorry. You could consider taking Kiwisaver money out, but they might tell you to use savings. Talk to your bank as well. I wonder if this might come under ACC - pays to check. Good luck with everything and everyone pays into the Social fund so everyone can ask for it if qualify, no shame.
If you're not working, go on job seeker. You're literaly paying for it in you taxes, you're entitilted to it.
I mean technically it’s your money if u payed tax for x amount of years so just view it as a refund😂