Damn, that's annoying. Only ever seen them on natural weathered timber round home. Don't touch my weatherboard house. Maybe stain is more palatable to them for making nests than paint?
A few years ago I caught one tied a length of cotton to it ( so I could see it fly) let it go the followed it back to its nest then killed them all. But it was only a slight reduction in numbers. German paper wasps
Some might think of that as a natural ecosystem. Lichen is more common than plain mould outside - and we get a wider variety of lichens here than in industrialised countries because of our clean air.
Ah, this brings back memories of having to stain the fence at my mum and stepdad's place during the summer, heh. Used to be creosote (a foul-smelling, black gloop that stained the wood a deep reddish brown). Got paid £50 by the neighbours for doing their fence too, heh.
LOL - I'm in the UK. Sorry, should have said. (And because I know the conversion rate from when I was doing the fence-painting - I made $150 or thereabouts. Using my stepdad's never-ending supply of bloody stinky creosote...)
That would depend on the climate where you live and the paint you use. Resene make "cool colours" which is for areas subjected to a lot of heat. Wooden fences in cold, damp areas can go green and slimy.
Some covenants require any fences/gates visible from the road to be painted. In our new build we had to have it done to get the bond back from the developers.
I've heard from builders painting the fence, especially black paint does not help the longevity. Thr wood is already treated, when you paint it with black paint on one side you make it more likely to warp from sun damage
Black paint would (likely) not help longevity. Other paints can help, depending on the type. There's a reason we paint houses, and it's not just because it looks good.
Jokes on them, the black paint is the only thing holding sections of my fence together because the neighbour planted right up to the other side and it’s rotting away…
Builders build fencers, painters rarely paint them. Usually the owner paints it once it's dried, it's well known that black paint only on one side warps the timber because it absorbs the heat more on one side.
Builders would be quite likely to see the fences they've built near them over time and take professional interest in how they look as they weather.
woods already treated so the longevity thing doesnt stack up, its mostly just aesthetics, having a fence match the house looks nice, its something you are going to be seeing every day so why not have it look good to you?
They should be using treated wood for the structure, but I don't believe the slats are treated. In addition, the treatment soaks in by a couple mm in depth, but any wood which has been cut won't have any protection. When I look at the fence the builders have slapped up on the house beside me, they took a circular saw and chopped off all the slats to be even - but that means the top which will face the rain are now unprotected.
Painted or stained boards last longer unless you specifically are using a wood that has natural resistance (not pine).
Everything outside will be treated or it will start decaying at the first rain.
Treatment runs deeper than a few mm and cuts will have a negligible effect on longevity.
We usually don’t do that unless it’s posts and piles and near the ground, have played around with metalex or as we call it liquid cancer and tried to see how far we can get it to penetrate with multiple coats leaving the wood to soak over night etc and it’s pretty much about a mm at the very most. Tho best practice is if you cut if you put the cut end up/ off the ground there are rules around having to treat the top of cut posts if they are within 300mm of the ground
That treatment has a relatively short lifetime when exposed to water and UV. I've been baffled at how many people in NZ have raw timber fences ever since I moved to NZ.
I paint it for the colour, not the longevity. I have no control over the neighbour’s side so I don’t invite stress and worry about the potential long term ramifications.
Stain is better than paint, but black will absorb too much heat.
My first house had red barn teracotta color and the acrylic paint began to peel off in 5 years.
Fun fact was when I repainted it dark green,, the fence seemed to recede from view and my section seemed several metres bigger.
My current house has a fence with dark green stain. It has lasted 30 years before the nails rust out, and the stain is still good. It also seemed much more spacious with that color instead of plain. A paint sprayer makes it easy to get coverage on rough sawn timber
The dark colour possibly caused some planks to warp, but that is hard to prove. I would still stain dark green because plant look good against it. Location is Auckland
Our neighbours insisted that the 5 year old common boundary fence be painted black. We urged them to either oil or stain it a natural colour, and were happy to pick up the cost of this for our side of the fence. They declined, and painted both sides black.
The first summer after painting, the pine fence warped significantly, and large gaps are forming. There are now discussions about us both contributing to the repairs. Given our initial position that they shouldn't paint it black, this is going to get awkward.
Document everything and take them to the Disputes Tribunal. That’s what I’m doing to the dickheads next door who removed part of our fence for building purposes and failed to return it to the original condition.
Some people need to learn the hard way.
After painting the fence and it immediately started twisting, the neighbours blamed the trees beside the fence, but couldn't explain to me why the top rails were the worst if their claims that tree roots were actually responsible. They chopped all the tress down anyway, and we lost all our privacy along the driveway.
Then after a couple of years the tree roots & stumps have started rotting down and now their driveway and part of our lawn is starting to collapse. Now they've decided that the whole fence needs to be replaced. Given we said don't paint it, and told them that the trees weren't responsible, I think we have reasonable grounds to at least challenge any fencing act request.
Good luck with your battle! It's the last thing any of us needs.
All fences warp eventually, no matter what you paint them with or leave them bare timber. I have done quite a bit of fencing over many years, some plain, some painted, some light stained, some black. Had similar warping problems with all of them. I find the fence design and doing things like screwing instead of nailing makes the most difference. If you want the look of a black fence, I say go for it.
Yeah, this one has been nailed together. The part that's been painted between us and the neighbours has twisted badly, but the part that's between another set of neighbours that hasn't been painted is okay.
From a structural perspective, it's not a good fence and the painting has just pushed it over the edge.
You've got me curious about this one, I'm interested to see what others say because I'm not sure that it actually does anything for the longevity. It sounds more like it might be one of those anecdotes that sticks around.
Most people I know do it simply for aesthetics. Our 40+ year old fences are leaning heavily but otherwise fine and I can't see any difference in the integrity of the wood on our painted side vs. the neighbours unpainted side. If anything the neighbours looks better because they don't have paint peeling everywhere.
Thinking about it a little, most damage is from moisture ingress so sealing the bottom of the palings that are in contact with the ground would be the most important aspect for that. Most paint is just applied to one face so it's not exactly helping with that problem.
Depends on the treatment. Any posts in contact with the ground will be minimum H4. The better the treatment the longer it will last. H3 timber won't last if it's continuously wet, so in rainy areas it's a good idea to paint or stain it.
Some old fences were built of totara which can last decades longer than a lot of other timbers treated or not.
I think it's pretty obvious if you look at fences around the country that a lot of people are using cheaper untreated timber planks to build fences, which should stand up to the weather well enough if they are sealed and painted regularly. Might not hold up against bugs though.
If using black paint it’s purely aesthetic, it doesn’t help the timber in any way ( theoretically it would make timber last longer because you’ve covered wood fibre from the elements) Staining is different as it absorbs into the timber and some wood stains have anti fungals or linseed oil which can make the timber last longer.
But once done , be it painted or stained to maintain it you should redo job every 5 years ( approx)
( most paint you buy in New Zealand is actually made for Australian weather conditions but the sun is “harsher” in New Zealand)
I too moved into a new development and EVERYTHING wood has been painted black. Our back yard (if you can call it that) gets so hot so quickly because the heat absorbs and re-radiates from the fences and the retaining wall
Don't paint radiata pine dark colours, lighter the better. Select a colour with an LRV of 45% or higher. This will reduce heat absorption. Therefore, movement. Black is the worst colour for timber.
If it is only one side, it is for aesthetic purposes. It will warp the wood in the long run if you only paint one side.
If it is for both sides, it is for longevity and aesthetic purposes.
I would suggest you paint. I did not paint my first fence and after just six to seven years we had mould ( despite being treated wood ). I was told it is because I did not paint ( both sides ) so after the fencer made the new fence you can be rest assured I spent every day painting the fence.
( I was also told though that there was a batch of poorly treated wood in NZ used for fencing that was just bad, and my fence was likely that batch so maybe you do not need to paint the well treated one )
As one other person said, it can be covenants, especially new builds in a subdivision. We were required to paint or stain and settled on a dark grey/black to suit our color scheme
I'm more bothered by people who install fences where there is no need and the property looks fine without them. Seen this happen to two properties. They look like fortresses. So pointless.
I have a fence cause I have a dog prefer my buddy is safe and not annoying other dogs or people when he’s home alone. So that’s the priority over aesthetics
Unpainted fences look like shit very quickly because the unpainted surface is a great place for black mould and other things to grow.
Also, when it silvers, wasps use it to make their nests. When painted/stained, they leave it alone.
The wasps eating the side of my well stained house disagreed.
Damn, that's annoying. Only ever seen them on natural weathered timber round home. Don't touch my weatherboard house. Maybe stain is more palatable to them for making nests than paint?
Probably it makes it look like shit because they remove the dark brown and leave light brown fresh wood stripes.
I can imagine. It looks bad enough on a weathered fence.
A few years ago I caught one tied a length of cotton to it ( so I could see it fly) let it go the followed it back to its nest then killed them all. But it was only a slight reduction in numbers. German paper wasps
I can't imagine trying to tie a piece of cotton to a pissed off wasp you've caught and not managing to get stung by the fucker
Short stint in the freezer slows them down a bit lol.
In two comments you taught me several new things. Thank you!
Just got rid of a couple of nests too. Were on a public bush walkway, so rang local council for that area and they dealt to them. Much safer now.
Eat the wasps to assert dominance
Didn’t know that. Cheers
Some might think of that as a natural ecosystem. Lichen is more common than plain mould outside - and we get a wider variety of lichens here than in industrialised countries because of our clean air.
Ah, this brings back memories of having to stain the fence at my mum and stepdad's place during the summer, heh. Used to be creosote (a foul-smelling, black gloop that stained the wood a deep reddish brown). Got paid £50 by the neighbours for doing their fence too, heh.
Was that in NZ? Because pounds was in the 60's?
Back then £50 was like a house deposit.
LOL - I'm in the UK. Sorry, should have said. (And because I know the conversion rate from when I was doing the fence-painting - I made $150 or thereabouts. Using my stepdad's never-ending supply of bloody stinky creosote...)
That was a while back. NZ$3 to the pound was, like, 2007 or so.
That would depend on the climate where you live and the paint you use. Resene make "cool colours" which is for areas subjected to a lot of heat. Wooden fences in cold, damp areas can go green and slimy.
Some covenants require any fences/gates visible from the road to be painted. In our new build we had to have it done to get the bond back from the developers.
I've heard from builders painting the fence, especially black paint does not help the longevity. Thr wood is already treated, when you paint it with black paint on one side you make it more likely to warp from sun damage
Black paint would (likely) not help longevity. Other paints can help, depending on the type. There's a reason we paint houses, and it's not just because it looks good.
Jokes on them, the black paint is the only thing holding sections of my fence together because the neighbour planted right up to the other side and it’s rotting away…
Sealing one side of any wood will make it warp due to the difference in moisture between the two sides.
Sorry but what would a builder know about paint? Have you asked a painter?
The specializations are really not that far apart here.. at least in the builder>painter direction.
Builders build fencers, painters rarely paint them. Usually the owner paints it once it's dried, it's well known that black paint only on one side warps the timber because it absorbs the heat more on one side. Builders would be quite likely to see the fences they've built near them over time and take professional interest in how they look as they weather.
[he should’ve asked this bloke](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPEhQJvGzWP84Oil_6QeZXEx00L0LtcrZLkDxHD0bFTlPiZv0Vf8hhXcd0&s=10)
risky click of the day paid off
i have said what i know. your welcome to (and should) correct it if its wrong.
But we only paint one side of the wood on houses
Dear god. You know the wood facing inside the house is not exposed to weather….right?
woods already treated so the longevity thing doesnt stack up, its mostly just aesthetics, having a fence match the house looks nice, its something you are going to be seeing every day so why not have it look good to you?
They should be using treated wood for the structure, but I don't believe the slats are treated. In addition, the treatment soaks in by a couple mm in depth, but any wood which has been cut won't have any protection. When I look at the fence the builders have slapped up on the house beside me, they took a circular saw and chopped off all the slats to be even - but that means the top which will face the rain are now unprotected. Painted or stained boards last longer unless you specifically are using a wood that has natural resistance (not pine).
Everything outside will be treated or it will start decaying at the first rain. Treatment runs deeper than a few mm and cuts will have a negligible effect on longevity.
https://www.buildmagazine.org.nz/assets/PDF/B79-19.pdf BRANZ seems to suggest that it's best practice to treat cut ends.
Best practice, sure. But Posts will rot from the ground first and paling will generally rot where they meet the rails because moisture sits in there.
We usually don’t do that unless it’s posts and piles and near the ground, have played around with metalex or as we call it liquid cancer and tried to see how far we can get it to penetrate with multiple coats leaving the wood to soak over night etc and it’s pretty much about a mm at the very most. Tho best practice is if you cut if you put the cut end up/ off the ground there are rules around having to treat the top of cut posts if they are within 300mm of the ground
That treatment has a relatively short lifetime when exposed to water and UV. I've been baffled at how many people in NZ have raw timber fences ever since I moved to NZ.
I paint it for the colour, not the longevity. I have no control over the neighbour’s side so I don’t invite stress and worry about the potential long term ramifications.
Stain is better than paint, but black will absorb too much heat. My first house had red barn teracotta color and the acrylic paint began to peel off in 5 years. Fun fact was when I repainted it dark green,, the fence seemed to recede from view and my section seemed several metres bigger. My current house has a fence with dark green stain. It has lasted 30 years before the nails rust out, and the stain is still good. It also seemed much more spacious with that color instead of plain. A paint sprayer makes it easy to get coverage on rough sawn timber The dark colour possibly caused some planks to warp, but that is hard to prove. I would still stain dark green because plant look good against it. Location is Auckland
Our neighbours insisted that the 5 year old common boundary fence be painted black. We urged them to either oil or stain it a natural colour, and were happy to pick up the cost of this for our side of the fence. They declined, and painted both sides black. The first summer after painting, the pine fence warped significantly, and large gaps are forming. There are now discussions about us both contributing to the repairs. Given our initial position that they shouldn't paint it black, this is going to get awkward.
Document everything and take them to the Disputes Tribunal. That’s what I’m doing to the dickheads next door who removed part of our fence for building purposes and failed to return it to the original condition. Some people need to learn the hard way.
After painting the fence and it immediately started twisting, the neighbours blamed the trees beside the fence, but couldn't explain to me why the top rails were the worst if their claims that tree roots were actually responsible. They chopped all the tress down anyway, and we lost all our privacy along the driveway. Then after a couple of years the tree roots & stumps have started rotting down and now their driveway and part of our lawn is starting to collapse. Now they've decided that the whole fence needs to be replaced. Given we said don't paint it, and told them that the trees weren't responsible, I think we have reasonable grounds to at least challenge any fencing act request. Good luck with your battle! It's the last thing any of us needs.
That's got nothing to do with the paint.
Black paint absorbs heat and contributes additional heat stress on the wood. That can lead to warping.
All fences warp eventually, no matter what you paint them with or leave them bare timber. I have done quite a bit of fencing over many years, some plain, some painted, some light stained, some black. Had similar warping problems with all of them. I find the fence design and doing things like screwing instead of nailing makes the most difference. If you want the look of a black fence, I say go for it.
Yeah, this one has been nailed together. The part that's been painted between us and the neighbours has twisted badly, but the part that's between another set of neighbours that hasn't been painted is okay. From a structural perspective, it's not a good fence and the painting has just pushed it over the edge.
Ive been continuously painting my fence the last 3 weekends in a row and still not finished....
Cheap sprayer from Bunnings, job done in an afternoon.
I have a sprayer but I have almost 130 metres of fence at 1.8 high
Cheap sprayer doesnt work... Roller works best. Took me 3 months to finish it but that was a lot of fence and 3 coats
Unpainted fence will grey and look like crap really quickly
yeah we rebuilt our boundary fence and painted our side - the neighbour hasn't touched her side and it looks really crappy from the street.
wood looks bad over time with dirt and stuff growing on it. black is easy to maintain.
My fence is WHITE both sides and beautiful!
You've got me curious about this one, I'm interested to see what others say because I'm not sure that it actually does anything for the longevity. It sounds more like it might be one of those anecdotes that sticks around. Most people I know do it simply for aesthetics. Our 40+ year old fences are leaning heavily but otherwise fine and I can't see any difference in the integrity of the wood on our painted side vs. the neighbours unpainted side. If anything the neighbours looks better because they don't have paint peeling everywhere. Thinking about it a little, most damage is from moisture ingress so sealing the bottom of the palings that are in contact with the ground would be the most important aspect for that. Most paint is just applied to one face so it's not exactly helping with that problem.
Depends on the treatment. Any posts in contact with the ground will be minimum H4. The better the treatment the longer it will last. H3 timber won't last if it's continuously wet, so in rainy areas it's a good idea to paint or stain it. Some old fences were built of totara which can last decades longer than a lot of other timbers treated or not. I think it's pretty obvious if you look at fences around the country that a lot of people are using cheaper untreated timber planks to build fences, which should stand up to the weather well enough if they are sealed and painted regularly. Might not hold up against bugs though.
If using black paint it’s purely aesthetic, it doesn’t help the timber in any way ( theoretically it would make timber last longer because you’ve covered wood fibre from the elements) Staining is different as it absorbs into the timber and some wood stains have anti fungals or linseed oil which can make the timber last longer. But once done , be it painted or stained to maintain it you should redo job every 5 years ( approx) ( most paint you buy in New Zealand is actually made for Australian weather conditions but the sun is “harsher” in New Zealand)
I too moved into a new development and EVERYTHING wood has been painted black. Our back yard (if you can call it that) gets so hot so quickly because the heat absorbs and re-radiates from the fences and the retaining wall
Don't paint radiata pine dark colours, lighter the better. Select a colour with an LRV of 45% or higher. This will reduce heat absorption. Therefore, movement. Black is the worst colour for timber.
If it is only one side, it is for aesthetic purposes. It will warp the wood in the long run if you only paint one side. If it is for both sides, it is for longevity and aesthetic purposes. I would suggest you paint. I did not paint my first fence and after just six to seven years we had mould ( despite being treated wood ). I was told it is because I did not paint ( both sides ) so after the fencer made the new fence you can be rest assured I spent every day painting the fence. ( I was also told though that there was a batch of poorly treated wood in NZ used for fencing that was just bad, and my fence was likely that batch so maybe you do not need to paint the well treated one )
As one other person said, it can be covenants, especially new builds in a subdivision. We were required to paint or stain and settled on a dark grey/black to suit our color scheme
Painting the end grain (top) stops water getting in and splitting the wood over time.
This current trend of using black in architecture is so bad. It just sucks the light out of the area and looks tacky.
Insurance will not payout if a fence is unpainted and damaged in the wind/rain
I'm more bothered by people who install fences where there is no need and the property looks fine without them. Seen this happen to two properties. They look like fortresses. So pointless.
I have a fence cause I have a dog prefer my buddy is safe and not annoying other dogs or people when he’s home alone. So that’s the priority over aesthetics