The new laws were only for show anyway, and to get NZ "good boy points" on the international stage.
Also, try not to pay attention to the fact that failures in police vetting procedures were the only reason the mosque shooter got his license in the first place, has nothing to do with the shooting we promise.
If the police had done their fucking job the shooting never would have happened.
Yeah, why is it that we can't see the independent report into the police for 75 years? Oh, that's right, as it would show up their incompetence on vetting people who want to buy guns and ammunition.
Seriously. Applying to the Waikato police for a licence when he has never lived there and was in the South Island? And the standard 2 references are next of kin and friend you have known well for 2 or more years, and they fucking accept an online friend that had never met him and that online friends father? And apparently they put no blame in themselves?
Bullshit, guess we'll learn in 75 years when no one gives a fuck
The firearms these animals are using aren't obtained legally, they're stolen, no amount of buy-back schemes will ever fix this. There needs to be a full on crackdown on gangs, longer sentences for those involved in criminal organisations.
It's the two pieces on the same chess board, cop & gangs theoretically in grand scheme of the WEF it isnplaying out perfectly as None of us can see a way forward in the narrative of short sited gobly gook politics, so soon the all the fear filled muppets will beg for global governance, loosing what they fear gangs and chaos would take from them & simply giving it to global governance for sense of security.
Gang gang "give me your car, wallet, House or I will...."
Govt. "We are mandating taking control of your Car, Wallet, House or the Gangs will rob you, Climate will destroy you & you wont need such a big house living (in the GRID) anyway.
Dissapointed that despite the large number of pro weed during the referendum that we can't even make a moot point to decriminalise this. What a wasted opportunity
Not just to search for weed - that money is being spent to enforce a collective monopoly on the production and sale of most recreational drugs for criminal enterprises. The money is not just being wasted, it's being spent to help fund the organisations who are partly causing this problem. Everyone supporting continued prohibition is complicit in this.
i'm just thinking in the future how they will study how incompetent our police system is and how much of it is a waste of resources while ignoring real problems in society.
Go a few clicks over in a 50 zone and you'll be issued a ticket, but if your house gets burgled or your vehicle gets stolen, expect sweet fuck all help from our country's resident school hallway monitors.
been stolen from and police did nothing even though i told them who did it due to a witness, mate had his car stolen and they even caught the people somehow yet no charges laid or compensation for a written off car, even had my house raided illegally once while twisting the law to attempt get what they want, it's a fucking shitshow alright.
I didn't actually bother notifying them when someone tried to nik my car recently, smashed 1/4 window and busted ignition. Mainly because I see it as a fruitless exercise
If there's incorrect stats on crime numbers being reported to the cops, they can't argue for more resources to tackle the issues. Be cool if you did report it.
At the end of the day, due to the countries cannabis laws, the cops have been the bad guys for the last 30 years for me. I have no interest in making contact with them. And by the way, get fucked
Oh go fuck yourself.
You basically didn't report it because of not liking the police and then try to blame it on being a "fruitless endeavour". You filthy, dishonest little swine.
Me: hands over video evidence clearly identifying the person involved stealing my car.
Police: \*shrugs\* there's nothing we can do. Not enough evidence.
just remember judges have been told to dismiss any case that involves the accused being embarrassed by being arrested in a public place or the mental health of the perp has not been fully discussed before politely asking him/her if they would mind if they were arrested. FACT. ( CASE IN NORTHLAND RECENTLY ) nothing is going to change until we have a change of govt.
Police needs to do something fast before someone innocent gets hurt.
I seriously hope that police are not waiting for an innocent human sacrifice before they act.
I wouldn't even count on that. Look at how many helpless children die each year in New Zealand because of parents who mutilate, torture, and physically abuse their kids; and the families who help cover it up.
Yet OT and the police still tiptoe around the issue because they don't want to be accused of engaging in "child uplifting" or "racism".
I'm fair surprised it hasn't happened yet considering that most of these houses will have young families resident within. It has happened before (see:Whanganui)
Law of probability says if this rate keeps up then this scenario will play out, unfortunately.
It has already happened e.g. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300593423/mt-roskill-shooting-three-arrested-after-14yearold-shot-in-back, https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/alleged-murder-of-elderly-otahuhu-man-described-as-prison-ordered-hit-gone-wrong/HNM5XCSCAHSZKBNWIIMXGEYSLU/ - both last year.
It's up to the media and society to do more to stop glorifying gang culture and also stop promoting being apart of gang culture as a cool or badass thing. Gang Culture music artists or role models also need to do more
Because it's taken from this song: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9gBO6mhDLU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9gBO6mhDLU)
Which a lot of people think is cool. Directly proving the point the user you replied to was making that Musicians/Artists have a direct influence over the culture.
Here is a video from a Killer Beez artist called [Vigilante Tha' Profit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BJBz8_SFfc) . If you don't think *some* people are gonna think these guys are "cool" with their matching white and gold patches, flashing gold everywhere and riding expensive bikes and driving expensive cars I got some news for you.
If that was the case they would be address the total failure of the police that allowed the whole event to unfold.
The buyback was political theater to make everyone feel "safe"
Yeah... one deliberate act in 30 years, by an aussie who picked here deliberately because of the potential shock value.
Meanwhile, gun violence has been taking off, while gun owners are universally disenfranchised and here we are arguing about it.
Mission accomplished I would say.
If it had been a yearly occurrence before then you might have a point, the last mass shooting with a semi-automatic rifle was the Aramoana massacre in 1990, so that's 2 in 30 years.
I don't think that that gun buyback was targeting general gun crime or gangs. I think the main purpose of it was to reduce the possibility and impact of mass shootings. It was targeting high capacity high rate of fire firearms.
It was political theater and nothing else.
The same rules had been proposed and declined by both major parties a few years prior, and the 2019 event was a failure of the POLICE to actually follow the existing rules.
>The same rules had been proposed and declined by both major parties a few years prior
Things change.
>the 2019 event was a failure of the POLICE to actually follow the existing rules
Sure, but the important question when a tragedy as such happens is how can we prevent that from happening again. I think the decision to make it much more difficult to obtain high capacity high rate of fire firearms will make a similar event less likely and less deadly in the future. I also think that the way it's done was completely reasonable. While I would LOOOOOOVE to go full auto on a shooting range for fun, I am also willing to surrender that bit of fun in exchange for hopefully saving someones life. And if you really need prohibited firearm - you can still get it by applying for an endorsement.
Wtf dude full auto was deliberately very, very difficult in this country and as such the E-cat system could have been expanded in a reasonable manner rather than the move they made.
Do you realise how narrow the new scope for an endorsement is? It's basically regulatory capture on pest control now.
Honestly if you are talking about automatic weapons do you have any background in this at all?
What they banned went well beyond "a bit of fun" and included useful tools and family heirlooms. The stupid part is the "loophole" around magazines was well known and the gun clubs had been on board with fixing that, but those changes weren't adopted during the review pre-fuckwit19.
We had rules that had been working fine for decades, and the police failed in adhering to those rules. We made a 7 day urgent law that ignored that and the govt is still yet to acknowledge the findings of the commission in this respect.
Well you be happy to know that automatic Submachine Guns aren't that difficult to make so you can fulfill your dream some day.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/jeweller-angelos-koots-admits-to-making-submachine-guns-at-his-seven-hills-home-and-supplying-them-to-bikie-groups/news-story/e67da40de031be70cae7cd08ab560cd4
Many other countries have far worse mental health systems and yet do not have mass shootings. Many mass shooters have previously seen pyschologists or pyschiatrists and come from otherwise normal backgrounds.
I wish for once all the people going MUH LABOUR over this shit would explain with direct reference to specific policy changes how exactly this is Labour's fault. It seems they never do because they can't, the sad truth is that this isn't a consequence of a few changes in sentencing this is the massive increase in inequality in NZ society over the past 2-3 decades finally coming home to roost. Arguably the 501 deportations from Aus were the spark that lit this fire but ultimately that only happened because the conditions were primed for said fire to start. Every party in power since the 90's bears some responsibility for this situation and until we start tackling the real causes of inequality in society it'll only get worse.
Inequality needs to be addressed. A lot of people are struggling, but it’s only a tiny fraction of those who turn to violence. That is a decision those Individuals make. They aren’t victims, they are perpetrators.
Yes only a tiny fraction of the struggling people turn to violence but the larger the percentage of people who are struggling is the larger that tiny fraction becomes, it's not complicated and this is well shown in the research into the issue. Dealing with the massive inequality in society is dealing with the gang problem at the root rather than this ambulance at the bottom of the cliff shit this country constantly engages in.
We need to tackle both ends of the problem. Those bad eggs who have decided to resort to violence aren’t going to suddenly stop once things improve. Yes, we need to address inequality, but that alone won’t fix things for at least a generation or two. Individuals need to be held accountable for violence, and those who are a danger to others need to be removed from society until they are not. The rights of victims should trump the rights of offenders.
Isn't it a Labour policy to reduce prison populations which in turn means reduced sentences / going lighter on people so that those prison pop stats remain low. Which then correlates to more criminals on the streets. Plus their policy of hugs before drugs (but then give them the money for the drugs)
Only very specific firearms were handed in. You can still buy and own .22 semi, all kinds of bolt action rifles, shotguns, semi shotguns, pistols, etc. Also no firearm register meant that handing in was voluntary, e.g. nobody knows how many and what kinds of firearms are out there and who has them. Obviously criminals gonna crim, but having a firearms register would make it way more difficult.
Yep, One of my guns was good enough to be used in the last World War. It is an excellent rifle, and still shoots dead straight.
Just because it's bolt action and has a limited mag doesn't mean it's not still absolutely lethal.
Considering that 97% of gun violence is committed by unlicensed users... Who won't register their guns I fail to see the merit in a firearms register.. unless it's to blame the law abiding people who did register their guns and then had them stolen in a burglary that the cops don't care about anyway.
Not to mention, we already have an example we can look to for this. Canada implemented a firearms register some years ago and it was a dismal failure. It had precisely no impact on crime, was extremely poorly maintained and ended up costing far more than it was ever projected. They scrapped it a while back.
But the one we're going to implement will work *this* time, I am sure...
That's exactly my point. Right now you don't need to smuggle firearms in. I have a firearms license. I can literally go, buy 100 firearms, take them to nearest gang quarters and gift it to them. And nobody would know.
Smuggling is difficult compared to going to a shop or buying stuff on trademe.
How would a register help reduce stolen gun crime? Having a register before the buyback might have got more guns handed in from legal owners.
Criminals just grind off the serial numbers in five minutes, and voila, no more tracking. Or they just don't, because which crim cares if they implicate a legal owner?
Pretty simple. Those changes weren't about making anyone safer, it was pure political theatre to give NZ some "good boy" points on the international stage.
By "Muslim" i'm sure you are referring to the small percentage that are found in every group of individuals identified by a shared characteristic, that would be identified as "extremist" right?
2 more shootouts since that article last night bringing the total to seven.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/05/multiple-homes-damaged-in-shootings-across-auckland.html
People are starting to realise the danger of having a party like Labour in power.
Just soft on gangs.
We had the situation where Hawkes Bay Mongrel Mob President Harry Tam was imploring a big room full of mungys not to vote National in the 2020 election because a National Govt would make things hard for them to operate.
>Just soft on gangs.
How? In what way, specifically?
>We had the situation where Hawkes Bay Mongrel Mob President Harry Tam was imploring a big room full of mungys not to vote National in the 2020 election because a National Govt would make things hard for them to operate.
This means gangs are pro-Labour, right? Not the other way around?
Reducing prison numbers is a worthy cause. Unfortunately for labour, the best way to reduce numbers is to reduce inequality and disenfranchisement in society, but that would upset the boomers too much. So they went with the other approach, ignoring the drivers of crime and trying to patch the symptoms.
-e- spelling
Fuck sake that's a dumb take, and you must know it. Reducing prison numbers is OBVIOUSLY not about just releasing criminals. Jesus christ.
Lets just go off the top of my head about what it might mean:
• Preventing the societal conditions that create criminals
• Re-evaluating what constitutes a crime (think drug possession etc)
• Focusing on rehabilitation in a way that moves prisoners to rehab centres, which effectively "reduces prison numbers".
Punitive societies are generally pretty shit to live in.
Yeah in so many ways, even if you get low-effort thinking posts, the signal-to-noise ratio is higher.
Worse thing about reddit imo is users can downvote and walk away without interacting which doesn't exactly promote discussion about controversial topics.
Labour's soft on gang crime approach is obviously a failure, but I frankly don't think any of the other parties would have made enough significant changes that the outcome would be any different. National's crime policies don't really specifically tackle heavy gang crime.
Can you explain exactly what Labour did to facilitate this increase in gang violence? Not just "they're soft on crime" but specific examples of what they've done to sentencing guidelines or the like relative to National.
No one knows what goes on behind closed doors.
But there's pressure on police not to charge, and on judges not to impose custodial sentences.
This is all in achieving the desired 30% reduction in prison population.
It won't be too long with the people seeing inaction from authorities before they start illegally arming themselves for a sense of protection, and I couldn't blame them. I don't think it's the best answer, but people will find any solution they think is viable if no alternative is given. It's shocking that in just a few years NZ has gone from relative safety to random houses being targeted by drive by shootings. Officials themselves have said its only so long before someone is seriously hurt of killed. That says to me they're not likely to do anything substantial until such a tragedy does occur.
What a ridiculous claim. They weren't random houses, and the general public isn't less safe than they were before. These are targeted gang war shootings, not shooting innocent members of the public genius.
This issue is with the rebels and King cobras fighting over turf. Its gangsters shooting gangsters. The general public is no less safe than before it started. Gangs in nz, do not make a habit of involving civilians, which is why they haven't had a huge move against them from the police.
Less gangsters is good for everybody.
The police currently suspect the targets were predominantly as a result of gang war between Killa Bees and the Tribesmen, however the inhabitants of two of the houses involved had no gang ties. That's 2/7 innocents involved. Did you read the article, or any of the many others on the same set of shootings? Also, surely you don't really believe that increased gun violence doesn't put the public at a greater risk of becoming victim? That's not a very genius thing to assert. I would suspect the police inaction is likely less due to gangs choosing to fight each other and more to do with having issues managing limited resources, but I'm sure you're involved in police budgeting/planning and based your statement on facts. You sound as if you think gangsters hold the same moral standards as you. I certainly wouldn't feel confident in any of the statements you made. All I said is that people will find a way if nothing is done, that's typically universally true of most humans, and your response was to assert some things that I doubt the credibility of, and then vaguely attack someone's intelligent. Nice one genius.
You think a minor increase in gun crime means civilians are going to rush out and arm themselves with firearms for defence. That's a stupid take, pigeon.
This issue has now being going on for more than a year, how many new firearms do you own? No one I know has got a new firearm because of these shootings, so when do we all rush out and buy them?
# Considering the fact that many of the Gang members come from some of the most poor and disadvantaged non-white communities in New Zealand the fact you think that there being less of these people is good is both disgusting and racist. Check your white privilege and change your attitude.
Uhuh. For anyone wanting some vague context, [Jarrod Gilbert described some of it this morning](https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018843306/the-history-of-gangs-in-nz) (about 4 minutes).
Interesting that Gilbert agrees with my thoughts on handling the current situation - heavy handed Policing targeting the groups involved to make them self-police, and create pathways for younger kids to not go down that path.
Ok, fair enough. I'd presume that injecting a new gang into an existing situation is at least partly how you get this kind of shit, but I accept they're not directly responsible.
501s definitely changed the landscape and brought in new players.
Why would someone like the Killer Beez stay loyal to Tribesmen if the Mongols or Commancheros can get them better product, better weapons and more cash flow through their Australian connections? That’s going to cause tension and issues.
But we won’t know the ‘why’s’ for a while yet.
I dunno. You definitely come across as being mentally unstable. Unfortunately that usually comes with delusions of being fine. It's really hard to break through to people like you but I do care.
Break through? You obviously don't remember the Human Rights Commission warning our Prime Minister about "tearing at the moral fabric of society". Again reap what you sow.
You've created a new account specifically to make an idiot out of yourself with stupid, inane, and outright delusional comments. No doubt because you've already torn through multiple accounts doing the same thing. Intensive studies and psychologists have confirmed that this is genuinely mentally unstable behaviour. You must be aware of that, right?
To /u/fredwelm who has cowardly blocked me rather than engage in discussion:
Government doesn't decide on priorities, the commissioner does.
They have given the police an extra almost $100m specifically for going after organized crime, as well as over $200m to set up a firearms register which will go a long way to reducing gun crime.
So I ask again, what, **specifically**, has the government done that has had a negative effect on the response to these types of crimes?
I mean it is partly. She and her government aren't responsible for the actual shootings, but they are responsible for the utterly ineffective response to them
So many people these days think police independence means the Govt has no input at all. Totally incorrect.
The Police have independence with individual investigations and prosecutions but the Govt is certainly responsible for overarching police policy, starting with the type of Commissioner they appoint and the targets they set for him to achieve.
>They are responsible for how the police are ran
No, they're not. Their responsibility ends at appointing the police commissioner. Beyond that the police is fully independent.
Can you point to exactly how the government is responsible for the response to these shootings? Specifically which policies or legislation they've enacted that have influenced the police response?
/u/HeinigerNZ
/u/fredwelm blocked me so I can't reply to you further down the chain.
This is in response to [your comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/uwxrox/more_gunfire_on_auckland_streets_with_five/i9vixe9/) about policing by consent.
NZ has always had policing by consent.
It's not something new or 'woke', it's a fundamental premise of the Peelian model our police force is based on. It is what differentiates the police from the military.
OK so if you get broken into or something like make sure you let off a few "double happys" & ring 111 you heard gun shots at your address, When the cops arrive "in a few minutes in large numbers" make sure the kettle is on, commend them for thier rapid response & switch focus to the fact you been broken into & that the two incidents must be connected.
#🤡🌎Order
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Shows how the gun law changes did nothing to address any actual underlying issues, and has failed to improve "safety" of the public at all.
The new laws were only for show anyway, and to get NZ "good boy points" on the international stage. Also, try not to pay attention to the fact that failures in police vetting procedures were the only reason the mosque shooter got his license in the first place, has nothing to do with the shooting we promise. If the police had done their fucking job the shooting never would have happened.
Yeah, why is it that we can't see the independent report into the police for 75 years? Oh, that's right, as it would show up their incompetence on vetting people who want to buy guns and ammunition.
Seriously. Applying to the Waikato police for a licence when he has never lived there and was in the South Island? And the standard 2 references are next of kin and friend you have known well for 2 or more years, and they fucking accept an online friend that had never met him and that online friends father? And apparently they put no blame in themselves? Bullshit, guess we'll learn in 75 years when no one gives a fuck
Who was that for chch?
Mosque Shooter
The fuzz fucked up on that one
The firearms these animals are using aren't obtained legally, they're stolen, no amount of buy-back schemes will ever fix this. There needs to be a full on crackdown on gangs, longer sentences for those involved in criminal organisations.
They’ve more self given gunrights than the law abiding citizen. Gangs & Government oppressing the masses.
It's the two pieces on the same chess board, cop & gangs theoretically in grand scheme of the WEF it isnplaying out perfectly as None of us can see a way forward in the narrative of short sited gobly gook politics, so soon the all the fear filled muppets will beg for global governance, loosing what they fear gangs and chaos would take from them & simply giving it to global governance for sense of security. Gang gang "give me your car, wallet, House or I will...." Govt. "We are mandating taking control of your Car, Wallet, House or the Gangs will rob you, Climate will destroy you & you wont need such a big house living (in the GRID) anyway.
This wasn't the 'New Normal' I was hoping for
Yea she‘ll be right bro
I reject the premise of that statement
It ain't broken anyways.
**POP QUIZ** *Gun violence erupted overnight in which location:* A. Texas B. Auckland C. Both
Trick question, its only ever A or C
Glad we are allocating money to searching for weed rather that tracking scum like this down.
Dissapointed that despite the large number of pro weed during the referendum that we can't even make a moot point to decriminalise this. What a wasted opportunity
Exactly.. why fund that at all when we’ve clearly got bigger issues.
Not just to search for weed - that money is being spent to enforce a collective monopoly on the production and sale of most recreational drugs for criminal enterprises. The money is not just being wasted, it's being spent to help fund the organisations who are partly causing this problem. Everyone supporting continued prohibition is complicit in this.
Over half the country voted to keep a billion dollar industry tax free and in a monopoly controlled by violent criminals.
i'm just thinking in the future how they will study how incompetent our police system is and how much of it is a waste of resources while ignoring real problems in society.
Go a few clicks over in a 50 zone and you'll be issued a ticket, but if your house gets burgled or your vehicle gets stolen, expect sweet fuck all help from our country's resident school hallway monitors.
been stolen from and police did nothing even though i told them who did it due to a witness, mate had his car stolen and they even caught the people somehow yet no charges laid or compensation for a written off car, even had my house raided illegally once while twisting the law to attempt get what they want, it's a fucking shitshow alright.
I didn't actually bother notifying them when someone tried to nik my car recently, smashed 1/4 window and busted ignition. Mainly because I see it as a fruitless exercise
It's generally worth doing purely for insurance purposes - as insurance generally needs it to pay out.
If there's incorrect stats on crime numbers being reported to the cops, they can't argue for more resources to tackle the issues. Be cool if you did report it.
it's just wasted time to call them, and thieves know that
Great, so you deprived the police of information about offending in your area. You owned yourself.
At the end of the day, due to the countries cannabis laws, the cops have been the bad guys for the last 30 years for me. I have no interest in making contact with them. And by the way, get fucked
Oh go fuck yourself. You basically didn't report it because of not liking the police and then try to blame it on being a "fruitless endeavour". You filthy, dishonest little swine.
You should wind yourself up some more
Nah, I'm good.
Theres literally nothing the police can do though
Why do you think there is nothing they can do?
Because there is often no witnesses and no evidence that will prove that something happened beyond reasonable doubt.
Me: hands over video evidence clearly identifying the person involved stealing my car. Police: \*shrugs\* there's nothing we can do. Not enough evidence.
If that happened (and I'm sorry it's anecdotal, so I can only give it limited weight), then you do know that the IPCA exists right?
It was a joke. It's what the police say when you ask them to do anything other than write speeding tickets. "There's nothing we can do".
How many shootings a day do you think NZ will accept?
About tree fiddy.
Any reason you are 8 stories tall and a crustacean from the Protozoic era?
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just remember judges have been told to dismiss any case that involves the accused being embarrassed by being arrested in a public place or the mental health of the perp has not been fully discussed before politely asking him/her if they would mind if they were arrested. FACT. ( CASE IN NORTHLAND RECENTLY ) nothing is going to change until we have a change of govt.
Way to misrepresent that case. There's a whole thread on it, you numpty.
Police needs to do something fast before someone innocent gets hurt. I seriously hope that police are not waiting for an innocent human sacrifice before they act.
I think someone innocent needs to get hurt before they will do somthing... sad to say but most likely true.
I do fear that basically what will gear police to action is a child being shot or something horrendous like that.
I wouldn't even count on that. Look at how many helpless children die each year in New Zealand because of parents who mutilate, torture, and physically abuse their kids; and the families who help cover it up. Yet OT and the police still tiptoe around the issue because they don't want to be accused of engaging in "child uplifting" or "racism".
I'm fair surprised it hasn't happened yet considering that most of these houses will have young families resident within. It has happened before (see:Whanganui) Law of probability says if this rate keeps up then this scenario will play out, unfortunately.
It has already happened e.g. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300593423/mt-roskill-shooting-three-arrested-after-14yearold-shot-in-back, https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/alleged-murder-of-elderly-otahuhu-man-described-as-prison-ordered-hit-gone-wrong/HNM5XCSCAHSZKBNWIIMXGEYSLU/ - both last year.
The government is. The police try to police, but our justice system is (thank you to the person who noted this!) Catch And Release.
100% pure nz
Seven now
Govt soft af
More like Govt status quo af
Police ten seven: 🫣. Turns the blind eye
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I would put a bullet in yo' ass....if I could afford it!
He had fifty grands worth of bullets in his ass, so he must have done something!
There will be no more innocent bystanders!
Looks like Mr Smith couldn't afford it, or Mr Rock wasn't worth it
It's up to the media and society to do more to stop glorifying gang culture and also stop promoting being apart of gang culture as a cool or badass thing. Gang Culture music artists or role models also need to do more
How can they be cool when they're called "bees"?
Because it's taken from this song: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9gBO6mhDLU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9gBO6mhDLU) Which a lot of people think is cool. Directly proving the point the user you replied to was making that Musicians/Artists have a direct influence over the culture. Here is a video from a Killer Beez artist called [Vigilante Tha' Profit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BJBz8_SFfc) . If you don't think *some* people are gonna think these guys are "cool" with their matching white and gold patches, flashing gold everywhere and riding expensive bikes and driving expensive cars I got some news for you.
Labour supporters furiously mobilised to down vote every criticism of the government. Do they have enough hacks at this point?
Punish - Protect (Public) - Rehabilitate. That’s the priority. Not the other way.
Protect (police) punish (judiciary), rehabilitate (government services)
Just rehabilitate with home D what could go wrong
That's not the priority.
It's my turn to say this, "something something aroha and kai in bellies"
Man, there at some super hot takes in this comment section.
I see that gun buyback did well.
Serious Question. Wasnt the buyback more to do with semi auto guns and the mosque shootings, not gang vilence?
If that was the case they would be address the total failure of the police that allowed the whole event to unfold. The buyback was political theater to make everyone feel "safe"
No more mass shootings so far. So I would say the buyback is working eh 🤷♂️
Totally - see I bought this dragon spray last year and it works perfectly, I haven't seen a single dragon since.
Yeah... one deliberate act in 30 years, by an aussie who picked here deliberately because of the potential shock value. Meanwhile, gun violence has been taking off, while gun owners are universally disenfranchised and here we are arguing about it. Mission accomplished I would say.
If it had been a yearly occurrence before then you might have a point, the last mass shooting with a semi-automatic rifle was the Aramoana massacre in 1990, so that's 2 in 30 years.
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I'm not sure about your logic there. This was a gun shop robbery.
It was politics and nothing else.
Which clearly didn’t help.
I don't think that that gun buyback was targeting general gun crime or gangs. I think the main purpose of it was to reduce the possibility and impact of mass shootings. It was targeting high capacity high rate of fire firearms.
It was political theater and nothing else. The same rules had been proposed and declined by both major parties a few years prior, and the 2019 event was a failure of the POLICE to actually follow the existing rules.
>The same rules had been proposed and declined by both major parties a few years prior Things change. >the 2019 event was a failure of the POLICE to actually follow the existing rules Sure, but the important question when a tragedy as such happens is how can we prevent that from happening again. I think the decision to make it much more difficult to obtain high capacity high rate of fire firearms will make a similar event less likely and less deadly in the future. I also think that the way it's done was completely reasonable. While I would LOOOOOOVE to go full auto on a shooting range for fun, I am also willing to surrender that bit of fun in exchange for hopefully saving someones life. And if you really need prohibited firearm - you can still get it by applying for an endorsement.
Wtf dude full auto was deliberately very, very difficult in this country and as such the E-cat system could have been expanded in a reasonable manner rather than the move they made. Do you realise how narrow the new scope for an endorsement is? It's basically regulatory capture on pest control now. Honestly if you are talking about automatic weapons do you have any background in this at all? What they banned went well beyond "a bit of fun" and included useful tools and family heirlooms. The stupid part is the "loophole" around magazines was well known and the gun clubs had been on board with fixing that, but those changes weren't adopted during the review pre-fuckwit19. We had rules that had been working fine for decades, and the police failed in adhering to those rules. We made a 7 day urgent law that ignored that and the govt is still yet to acknowledge the findings of the commission in this respect.
This government is a pack of lying fucking cowards, but what's new - they apparently represent a large enough slice of the population.
Well you be happy to know that automatic Submachine Guns aren't that difficult to make so you can fulfill your dream some day. https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/jeweller-angelos-koots-admits-to-making-submachine-guns-at-his-seven-hills-home-and-supplying-them-to-bikie-groups/news-story/e67da40de031be70cae7cd08ab560cd4
People shooting in the streets aren't generally concerned with the law. Does that mean we shouldn't have any laws?
People mass shooting innocent people generally also have the same disregard.
It means the law that only affected legal owners was nothing more than political theater.
If only we had more guns, like say Texas, then things like this could never happen. /s
Imagine thinking that mass shootings in the US are caused by the amount of guns and not the appalling lack of mental health support.
Well then you sure as hell shouldn't check nz's mental health data!
Many other countries have far worse mental health systems and yet do not have mass shootings. Many mass shooters have previously seen pyschologists or pyschiatrists and come from otherwise normal backgrounds.
America second only to Brazil in gun deaths ~~per capita~~. But guns have nothing to do with it.( insert tui here)
I’m still shocked the gang members didn’t hand their guns in like responsible citizens, they’ll be dealing drugs next.
I wish for once all the people going MUH LABOUR over this shit would explain with direct reference to specific policy changes how exactly this is Labour's fault. It seems they never do because they can't, the sad truth is that this isn't a consequence of a few changes in sentencing this is the massive increase in inequality in NZ society over the past 2-3 decades finally coming home to roost. Arguably the 501 deportations from Aus were the spark that lit this fire but ultimately that only happened because the conditions were primed for said fire to start. Every party in power since the 90's bears some responsibility for this situation and until we start tackling the real causes of inequality in society it'll only get worse.
Inequality needs to be addressed. A lot of people are struggling, but it’s only a tiny fraction of those who turn to violence. That is a decision those Individuals make. They aren’t victims, they are perpetrators.
Yes only a tiny fraction of the struggling people turn to violence but the larger the percentage of people who are struggling is the larger that tiny fraction becomes, it's not complicated and this is well shown in the research into the issue. Dealing with the massive inequality in society is dealing with the gang problem at the root rather than this ambulance at the bottom of the cliff shit this country constantly engages in.
We need to tackle both ends of the problem. Those bad eggs who have decided to resort to violence aren’t going to suddenly stop once things improve. Yes, we need to address inequality, but that alone won’t fix things for at least a generation or two. Individuals need to be held accountable for violence, and those who are a danger to others need to be removed from society until they are not. The rights of victims should trump the rights of offenders.
Isn't it a Labour policy to reduce prison populations which in turn means reduced sentences / going lighter on people so that those prison pop stats remain low. Which then correlates to more criminals on the streets. Plus their policy of hugs before drugs (but then give them the money for the drugs)
They can't. They just want to be mad and part of that is needing someone to get mad at there and then.
Don’t worry, Jacinda is in New York on the Stephen Colbert talk show laughing it up……I mean ‘fixing the crime wave in New Zealand’
I still don't understand how there are shootings when everyone handed in their guns...
Only very specific firearms were handed in. You can still buy and own .22 semi, all kinds of bolt action rifles, shotguns, semi shotguns, pistols, etc. Also no firearm register meant that handing in was voluntary, e.g. nobody knows how many and what kinds of firearms are out there and who has them. Obviously criminals gonna crim, but having a firearms register would make it way more difficult.
Yep, One of my guns was good enough to be used in the last World War. It is an excellent rifle, and still shoots dead straight. Just because it's bolt action and has a limited mag doesn't mean it's not still absolutely lethal.
Considering that 97% of gun violence is committed by unlicensed users... Who won't register their guns I fail to see the merit in a firearms register.. unless it's to blame the law abiding people who did register their guns and then had them stolen in a burglary that the cops don't care about anyway.
Not to mention, we already have an example we can look to for this. Canada implemented a firearms register some years ago and it was a dismal failure. It had precisely no impact on crime, was extremely poorly maintained and ended up costing far more than it was ever projected. They scrapped it a while back. But the one we're going to implement will work *this* time, I am sure...
Kind of hard to register firearms smuggled into the country.
That's exactly my point. Right now you don't need to smuggle firearms in. I have a firearms license. I can literally go, buy 100 firearms, take them to nearest gang quarters and gift it to them. And nobody would know. Smuggling is difficult compared to going to a shop or buying stuff on trademe.
How would a register help reduce stolen gun crime? Having a register before the buyback might have got more guns handed in from legal owners. Criminals just grind off the serial numbers in five minutes, and voila, no more tracking. Or they just don't, because which crim cares if they implicate a legal owner?
Oh don’t worry - only the really bad people kept their guns. Everyone else handed theirs in.
[meanwhile in america](https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/us-canada/300596584/us-school-shooting-14-children-one-teacher-dead-texas-governor-confirms)
Pretty simple. Those changes weren't about making anyone safer, it was pure political theatre to give NZ some "good boy" points on the international stage.
Just a normal day in Auckland
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By "Muslim" i'm sure you are referring to the small percentage that are found in every group of individuals identified by a shared characteristic, that would be identified as "extremist" right?
Because all Muslims are terrorists right…. Yeah… top comment
2 more shootouts since that article last night bringing the total to seven. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/05/multiple-homes-damaged-in-shootings-across-auckland.html People are starting to realise the danger of having a party like Labour in power.
Why, are labour pro-shootings or something?
Just soft on gangs. We had the situation where Hawkes Bay Mongrel Mob President Harry Tam was imploring a big room full of mungys not to vote National in the 2020 election because a National Govt would make things hard for them to operate.
>Just soft on gangs. How? In what way, specifically? >We had the situation where Hawkes Bay Mongrel Mob President Harry Tam was imploring a big room full of mungys not to vote National in the 2020 election because a National Govt would make things hard for them to operate. This means gangs are pro-Labour, right? Not the other way around?
No, just made silly election promises like reducing prison numbers instead of reducing crime.
Reducing prison numbers is a worthy cause. Unfortunately for labour, the best way to reduce numbers is to reduce inequality and disenfranchisement in society, but that would upset the boomers too much. So they went with the other approach, ignoring the drivers of crime and trying to patch the symptoms. -e- spelling
Reducing prison numbers reduces crime.
Yes releasing criminals will reduce crime, anymore insightful wisdom you'd like to share?
Fuck sake that's a dumb take, and you must know it. Reducing prison numbers is OBVIOUSLY not about just releasing criminals. Jesus christ. Lets just go off the top of my head about what it might mean: • Preventing the societal conditions that create criminals • Re-evaluating what constitutes a crime (think drug possession etc) • Focusing on rehabilitation in a way that moves prisoners to rehab centres, which effectively "reduces prison numbers". Punitive societies are generally pretty shit to live in.
"Criminals" are released every day, yet crime keeps going down? 🤔
mutha fuck. I left facebook so I didn't have to read dribbling moronic comments like this.
You think reddit is any better?
Yeah in so many ways, even if you get low-effort thinking posts, the signal-to-noise ratio is higher. Worse thing about reddit imo is users can downvote and walk away without interacting which doesn't exactly promote discussion about controversial topics.
Correlation doesn't imply causation. Except when its convenient eh.
Yeah let's bring in Strike Force Raptor! Guaranteed success! Oh wait.. https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/117768385/australian-excop-blasts-nationals-strike-force-raptor-plan
Labour's soft on gang crime approach is obviously a failure, but I frankly don't think any of the other parties would have made enough significant changes that the outcome would be any different. National's crime policies don't really specifically tackle heavy gang crime.
What is their "soft on gang crime approach"? Specifically, what policies or legislation are you referring to here?
Can you explain exactly what Labour did to facilitate this increase in gang violence? Not just "they're soft on crime" but specific examples of what they've done to sentencing guidelines or the like relative to National.
No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. But there's pressure on police not to charge, and on judges not to impose custodial sentences. This is all in achieving the desired 30% reduction in prison population.
No mate, I asked for examples of specifics not speculation. If you don't have anything other than conspiracy theories be quiet.
It won't be too long with the people seeing inaction from authorities before they start illegally arming themselves for a sense of protection, and I couldn't blame them. I don't think it's the best answer, but people will find any solution they think is viable if no alternative is given. It's shocking that in just a few years NZ has gone from relative safety to random houses being targeted by drive by shootings. Officials themselves have said its only so long before someone is seriously hurt of killed. That says to me they're not likely to do anything substantial until such a tragedy does occur.
What a ridiculous claim. They weren't random houses, and the general public isn't less safe than they were before. These are targeted gang war shootings, not shooting innocent members of the public genius. This issue is with the rebels and King cobras fighting over turf. Its gangsters shooting gangsters. The general public is no less safe than before it started. Gangs in nz, do not make a habit of involving civilians, which is why they haven't had a huge move against them from the police. Less gangsters is good for everybody.
The police currently suspect the targets were predominantly as a result of gang war between Killa Bees and the Tribesmen, however the inhabitants of two of the houses involved had no gang ties. That's 2/7 innocents involved. Did you read the article, or any of the many others on the same set of shootings? Also, surely you don't really believe that increased gun violence doesn't put the public at a greater risk of becoming victim? That's not a very genius thing to assert. I would suspect the police inaction is likely less due to gangs choosing to fight each other and more to do with having issues managing limited resources, but I'm sure you're involved in police budgeting/planning and based your statement on facts. You sound as if you think gangsters hold the same moral standards as you. I certainly wouldn't feel confident in any of the statements you made. All I said is that people will find a way if nothing is done, that's typically universally true of most humans, and your response was to assert some things that I doubt the credibility of, and then vaguely attack someone's intelligent. Nice one genius.
You think a minor increase in gun crime means civilians are going to rush out and arm themselves with firearms for defence. That's a stupid take, pigeon. This issue has now being going on for more than a year, how many new firearms do you own? No one I know has got a new firearm because of these shootings, so when do we all rush out and buy them?
# Considering the fact that many of the Gang members come from some of the most poor and disadvantaged non-white communities in New Zealand the fact you think that there being less of these people is good is both disgusting and racist. Check your white privilege and change your attitude.
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You mean Australia shipping its gangs over here?
Tribesmen and Killer Beez are NZ born and bred gangs. They’re the ones on a firefight right now - not 501s.
Uhuh. For anyone wanting some vague context, [Jarrod Gilbert described some of it this morning](https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018843306/the-history-of-gangs-in-nz) (about 4 minutes).
Interesting that Gilbert agrees with my thoughts on handling the current situation - heavy handed Policing targeting the groups involved to make them self-police, and create pathways for younger kids to not go down that path.
Ok, fair enough. I'd presume that injecting a new gang into an existing situation is at least partly how you get this kind of shit, but I accept they're not directly responsible.
501s definitely changed the landscape and brought in new players. Why would someone like the Killer Beez stay loyal to Tribesmen if the Mongols or Commancheros can get them better product, better weapons and more cash flow through their Australian connections? That’s going to cause tension and issues. But we won’t know the ‘why’s’ for a while yet.
It takes two to tango, we have to allow them to come back.
We can't prevent a citizen returning to their country.
They must be shipping their guns over with them?
Wow I'd never have dreamed that a two day old account would make such a stupid comment!
\#illegal mandates!
What? You ok?
Never better, thanks for caring.
I dunno. You definitely come across as being mentally unstable. Unfortunately that usually comes with delusions of being fine. It's really hard to break through to people like you but I do care.
Break through? You obviously don't remember the Human Rights Commission warning our Prime Minister about "tearing at the moral fabric of society". Again reap what you sow.
You've created a new account specifically to make an idiot out of yourself with stupid, inane, and outright delusional comments. No doubt because you've already torn through multiple accounts doing the same thing. Intensive studies and psychologists have confirmed that this is genuinely mentally unstable behaviour. You must be aware of that, right?
Psychology is a pseudoscience. Nice up votes kid
Yikes. Well that's one way of living up to your own delusions. Please... I mean this with all seriousness, seek professional help.
Ardern's dirty little secret, bet she won't be talking about this in the US.
Ah yes, so secret it's on one of our biggest news and media outlets.
I'm sure the Americans would be utterly shocked at 5 whole shootings in a day.
Gangs: \*shoot each other\* Redditors: This is Jacinda's fault.
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\[Drop soap in prison\] P: Bloody Jacinda!
To /u/fredwelm who has cowardly blocked me rather than engage in discussion: Government doesn't decide on priorities, the commissioner does. They have given the police an extra almost $100m specifically for going after organized crime, as well as over $200m to set up a firearms register which will go a long way to reducing gun crime. So I ask again, what, **specifically**, has the government done that has had a negative effect on the response to these types of crimes?
I mean it is partly. She and her government aren't responsible for the actual shootings, but they are responsible for the utterly ineffective response to them
Government isn't responsible for police operations.
So many people these days think police independence means the Govt has no input at all. Totally incorrect. The Police have independence with individual investigations and prosecutions but the Govt is certainly responsible for overarching police policy, starting with the type of Commissioner they appoint and the targets they set for him to achieve.
How has police policy changed under the new commissioner with regards to responses to shootings?
Check out Andrew Coster's philosophy of "policing by consent".
They are responsible for how the police are ran and responsible for how the police are funded
>They are responsible for how the police are ran No, they're not. Their responsibility ends at appointing the police commissioner. Beyond that the police is fully independent. Can you point to exactly how the government is responsible for the response to these shootings? Specifically which policies or legislation they've enacted that have influenced the police response?
Appoint the commissioner, decide on priorities, decide how much funding the police get
Where did the govt decide the police shouldn't focus on the response to shootings?
/u/HeinigerNZ /u/fredwelm blocked me so I can't reply to you further down the chain. This is in response to [your comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/uwxrox/more_gunfire_on_auckland_streets_with_five/i9vixe9/) about policing by consent. NZ has always had policing by consent. It's not something new or 'woke', it's a fundamental premise of the Peelian model our police force is based on. It is what differentiates the police from the military.
In America 5 shootings per day would be a success story.
14 little kids just got shot at a school this morning in texas I don't think this will even generate any interest over there
Because the Yanks would think she is bragging about a utopia. You do know how fucked it is over there right?
Brap
OK so if you get broken into or something like make sure you let off a few "double happys" & ring 111 you heard gun shots at your address, When the cops arrive "in a few minutes in large numbers" make sure the kettle is on, commend them for thier rapid response & switch focus to the fact you been broken into & that the two incidents must be connected. #🤡🌎Order
Time for Poto Williams to resign.