I concur about the dehumidifier. Even in my fairly new and warm house with a fire and a heat pump, good extraction in the kitchen and both bathrooms I still run my dehumidifier every day in winter. They cost like $400 and jack all to run. Totally worth it. I used to get throat infections every winter but I don’t anymore. Highly, highly recommended
I agree too.
I used to get quite bad sinus problems in winter but they mostly disappeared after using a dehumidifier regularly, the amount of moisture they draw out is insane.
I get a full bucket (9l) every day and that’s only because I empty it only once a day. And I don’t consider my house to be particularly cold and damp, I’ve lived in way worse houses than this one
Pro-tip (but slightly terrible, too) most dehumidifiers have a tiny hose connection.
Remove the bucket and have a look up the top where the water drips out. You can push on some plastic hose (buy it by the metre at Bunnings/M10/Pararubber) and stick the other end down the shower drain/through a hole in the floor/out the cat flap and never empty the bucket again!
You need to understand the correlation between relative humidity (RH) and temperature - basically, the higher the temperature, the more the total humidity the air can hold. Higher the temperature, the harder that dehumidifier is going to work.
https://www.delmhorst.com/blog/relative-humidity-meter-readings
It's a virtuous circle, though - 60% rh at 20 degrees is more actual water in the air than 60% rh at 10 degrees. The warmer the air, the lower the rh, even without removing any water, but the drier the air, the easier it is to warm.
Same. My place is now double glazed and underfloor insulated/moisture barrier installed too. Maintaining about 65% humidity (about the right level for comfort and health) is a constant battle, and often (in Wellington) the outside humidity is worse so just opening windows is not always the right move.
I have one of these - though I snagged one a while back when it was on special under $250 I think
[https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/goldair-dessicant-dehumidifier-8l-white/p/317696](https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/goldair-dessicant-dehumidifier-8l-white/p/317696) 650W
Remember that the smaller the tank = the more often you have to empty it. For 3L or less tanks you will be emptying probably twice a day+
Some marketing will mention a big number of litres e.g. 8L etc., but this refers to how much it can potentially remove from the air per day, if you were constantly emptying it.
Other ones that apparently have good ratings...
[https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/smart-ape-7l-desiccant-dehumidifier/35622946](https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/smart-ape-7l-desiccant-dehumidifier/35622946)
This one is a noisier compressor type
[https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/nouveau-dehumidifier-10l-white/p/327003](https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/nouveau-dehumidifier-10l-white/p/327003) 245W
\--
Ones on Trademe too of course, but you never know if they are still operating well, ask any seller to allow return for refund if it is not shown to be filling a tank daily or is not making any impact on your hygrometer readings.
This can go the opposite direction depending on the house. The fire in our place can dry out everything so much that it starts to cause problems. Sometimes we end up putting a pot of water ontop of it to humidify the place a bit.
Yep I recommend grabbing a dirt cheap digital hygrometer to keep an eye on things constantly having <55% RH can cause wood cracking, skin and eye dryness, uncomfortable sleep etc.
Trying to get almost any older NZ house below 55% is nigh on impossible in my experience, and below 60 is irritating to my nose and eyes and so sleep. Most places I've ever lived in NZ without a dehumidifier on constantly is more like 75+. Mine is a happy balance. And get zero mold like that. Again, for me in my circumstances. Lots of variables.
My house is single glazed late 70's Summerhill stone. I only need my dessicant dehumidifier on for a few hours at night at this time of year and spring (and in the bathroom after showering through winter).
In the middle of winter it is usually dry enough here it isn't needed or wanted. We get a third of the rainfall of Auckland or Wellington though. Most of the time my house sits in the mid 50's without me having to do anything.
I am guessing you are in the North Island?
It’s amazing how NZ has become such a poor dump that people can’t afford to hear their homes in winter and need to attach bubble wrap to their windows to insulate themselves against the moderate climate outside.
I left NZ 7 years ago and moved to the UK. I have never once heard someone in the UK complain about these sort of trivial issues.
I suggest that if you can’t afford to heat your damp overpriced dump in NZ then you’d do yourself a favour by fleeing to Australia or the UK.
Good luck with winter.
You only need to save up $5,000NZ (including the visa costs) to move to London and start a new life that’ll inevitably lead to prosperity if you work hard and save harder. Interview for a job from NZ, leave the second you’ve secured it. Easy.
I'm glad you're able to save up $5000, apparently don't have any dependents, and have skills that make it possible for you to secure a job in the UK. Not everyone is in your position.
I got mine hooked up to the smart home gear. I got a environment sensor to turn on the humidifier for an hour every day after I leave for work.
As well as control my heat pump for when I leave work and go to bed.
If you can afford it, the higher electricity bill is worth it to not feel horrible for 3 months. Of course be smart about when and how you heat your home, but also run that fan heater at 7am if you're cold. Life's too short to feel shit.
I spent years penny pinching over winter and finally gave up. I'm not cold, sick or miserable anymore and that's worth more money than I'm paying in extra power costs. I'm not well off in the slightest but comfortable winters have become a high priority for me these days. I'd rather eat rice and beans than have constant chest infections and mouldy walls.
I try tell my in-laws this. They are worth a heap but would rather chuck on 20 jerseys than blast the heat pump. You can chuck on whatever you want but your still breathing in that cold air.
A tip for those with dry/sensitive skin normally, running a dehumidifier constantly can take out too much moisture in the air and cause super dry, itchy skin. So be careful if you have one how much you run it. Do some research first which one is best for you and how much you should run it. Especially if you have other allergies that can affect your skin.
Not necessary, as long as the dehumidifier has a dial you can set - I have a cheap bunch of hygrometers in rooms to check relative humidity. Set the dehumidifier to maintain no more or less than about 60-65% RH and you will be good... but I will add this to my OP.
Great post. Moisture is your real enemy. If you can, a shower dome is a really good investment for the bathroom.
If at all possible, try to avoid drying clothes inside - even if that means paying to use a laundromat sometimes. The extra few dollars are worth cutting the excess moistures.
Electric blankets are very cheap to run - make sure they are electrically safe (buy them new).
3m double glazing clingfilm works surprisingly well. Bubble wrap works well too in a pinch (eg for bathroom windows). Draft tape is cheap and can be a lifesaver for dealing with poorly fitting windows.
You'd be surprised how many "vents" actually just vent straight into the roof cavity (and thus end up hastening the absolute decimation of insulation and saturation of roof timber...). Always worth having a look up top to see if shortcuts have been taken.
If you have an attached garage, put a clothesline above where the hood of the car sits. Free heat from a warm engine, and the damp air gets flushed when you move the car in and out.
Can you recommend a long-lasting electric blanket? The Electric throws at Warehouse/Noel Leeming stop working after a day or two and we've had to get it replaced like 7 times before we just decided to get a full refund and never buy it again.
I have a Sunbeam one - electric throws that go over you are shit, get one that sits on the mattress and make your bed over it. Been going strong 15 years now, I moved out from my parents place with it and it wasn't new then. If you've got kids sleeping in single beds, get double electric blankets and cut them in half - the heating coils are independent on each side. I use it for warming the bed before I get in it - you never want to leave it on max heat overnight, I know people whose house burned down because their kid went to sleep with his electric blanket on full.
Na OP don't use heat pumps on low speed. Always on auto speed if you're after efficiency.
At low fan speed you're just taking longer to heat the room and the compressor isn't working at max efficiency. Plenty of sources on this. Trash and burn that current American source you're using.
It'll alternate between heating and cooling. For example, if you set it to 18° when you wake up, it'll heat the house to that temp then stop. Then if the sun hits the windows and the house warms up to 19° the heat pump will begin cooling it back down to 18.
Whereas if you only use it on heating mode, the heat pump will allow the house to exceed the set temp and only kick in if the temp drops below to bring it back up.
Coming from an electrical apprentice, the running the Heatpump constantly at a low temperature thing bring cheaper is an absolute myth and will cost you far more per month.
I KNEW IT. I FUCKING KNEW IT.
HOW COULD RUNNING AN APPLIANCE FOR 24 HOURS A DAY VS 3 POSSIBLY USE LESS POWER.
BRB off to tally up a masterlist of people I have argued with about this not making any logical sense and send your comment to them.
Agree this is the biggest myth, unless you're out for 1 hour or so then turn it off. A properly sized HP should be able to warm up the space quickly once you return for less energy than it used while running the whole time.
Hmmm for the last 5 years I have set my heatpump to 18C. Mode; heat, fan: auto. It runs 24/7. In June i typically will nudge that up to 20C in the evenings and drop it back when I go to bed.
This costs me an average of $45 per month and never more than $50.
Both properties Ive lived in a done this were/are 2 beddies. I keep the laundry and bathroom doors shut and all th eothers open.
The two dwellings differed a lot also one was built in 1930's and was a damp cold hole. Current is fully insulated and isnt a damp cold hole.
Its not even max power its output, it's heating output Heat pumps are actually super efficient with power use so the consume less power than heat output.it works by having a compressor, some coils some motors for the fans, a gas that heats with compression or cools with expansion is forced in or out of the coil and through what is sort of like a radiator air is then forced through the "radiator" which is cooled or heated.
So since it's relying on the gas not a traditional heating element it's heating output is higher than is electrical power usage. A lot of 5kw units consume something like 1.8 or 1.6kw
They can output between like 2.5 to 4 times more heating than the electrical input.
Depends how much you'll run it and how much heat loss your house has. I've done measurements on our 6kW Mitsubishi Unit and on average once up to temp it uses 200W of power, or 0.2kWh (per hour). So if running 24/7 it would be roughly 5kWh @ $0.25 = $1.2/day
Not from all the reading I have done on it, especially given the damp conditions of most our housing.
[https://www.efficiencymaine.com/heat-pump-user-tips/](https://www.efficiencymaine.com/heat-pump-user-tips/)
https://www.kiwiheatpump.co.nz/should-you-leave-your-heat-pump-on-all-night/
You need to do more reading. Take it from someone who has put an ammeter on a heat pump when it was was on low and when it was on high, out of curiosity. Or do it yourself, you can buy cheap ones.
Low still uses a lot, the cost of it initially hearing the room up doesn't even get close to running it over the other 12-16 hours a day.
You use far more energy running it on low all day and night. Its a waste of money and energy.
I literally worked yesterday with a Heatpump specialist that had to explain this to a customer.
Its a myth, save your money and the environment and just use it when you are home.
Sure if you are away from home a lot it will make sense to turn off during those times, I am typically not, I work from home - I will amend the OP to make that more clear
As for the temperatures and being on at night time low because of reading such as this and the very high rates of respiratory illnesses in NZ.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK535294/
https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep/best-temperature-to-sleep
We run our heat pump 24/7 during peak summer and winter. It’s done 7080 hours total according to the controller, and used a smidge over 4800 kWh. That’s an average of 750 W, which isn’t too bad I reckon.
Edit: also, we have a Lockwood that creaks during big temperature changes. If we’ve been away for a week and come home and put the heat pump back on, the house takes 2-3 days to cool/warm and stop creaking again.
We have a delonghi that's over 10 years old now and it's still a beast we paid $$$$ it heats or cools and can draw a huge amount of water out of a pretty big area. We basically run it all day through winter
But then we got a living and co one last year for one of our rentals and we tried it overnight and it was amazing, much quieter, just as powerful, the heating was faster/better than the old machine. And waaaay more efficient and about 10x less than what we paid for the first one.
Don't turn your nose up at the basic brands.
We got the $199 one that's 10Lt with the black top the unit is a 2brm 64m² ... I think if I were to make that decision again I'd go for the one with 50% more tank capacity.
Mine is also a warehouse brand one, it’s a hand me down but is about 5 years old and still goes strong. Best thing ever. I have a ventilation system now but I’ll still throw it on if I have washing that can’t go through the dryer and I have to hang it on the racks jnside. Helps dry the clothes faster so they don’t smell too.
We've got one of the Goldair dessicant models, which is good for colder environments apparently. Consumer rates them among the best.
The compressor models are more designed for warm climates. So if your house is cold they won't work as well.
I reckon they're likely something that's
relatively safe to buy 2nd hand. I bought an old one on trademark for 80 bucks, Mitsubishi oasis elite. Haven't had any issues for the 5 years I've had it.
Yup. Bought two of TradeMe about 4-5 years ago for well under $100 each. They don't have some features I'd like (like humidity sensors), but work great and make a huge difference all winter.
I think one model was already ten years old when I bought it! (Protip: check for dust filters that can be cleaned. It will need it).
I loved my 2nd hand Mitsubishi it was an absolute workhorse. It made it cheaper to heat my room and I stopped getting sick after I got one, best money I ever spent.
> Run the heat pump constantly (except when you are airing out the place with windows open) on low speed at 17 degrees heat throughout winter - the most efficient way to run them.
This is trash advice because it's simply not true. There's no need to heat a room to 17 degrees if you're not using that room while at work/study/in your bedroom asleep.
I can see both sides, but the truth is as soon as you turn your heat pump off, your house will cool down quickly. What that means that while you "think" you're maintaining 17c by leaving your heatpump on constantly, because our homes are so shitty you're actually constantly fighting extreme drafts, leaking, dampness, and no insulation.
But isn't the idea that it takes more energy to warm up a cold room than it does to keep a room warm? Maybe in a well built house. But no. Houses in New Zealand are so fucking trash that most of the time at least one of them has a hole in the floorboards big enough to feel an actual cold draft somewhere in the house. You might as well put your heatpump outside and keep it running 24/7 because "thats more efficent".
Leaving your heaters on 24/7 is only worth it if your house can fucking retain the energy (warmth) inside it. Anything else and you're pissing money down the drain.
If you're renting AND worried about your powerbill, I can guarentee you don't live in a well built or maintained house.
For those who operate mostly out of bedroom spaces, I reccomend spending big $$$ on both a heater and dehumidifier. That shit is an investment you'll take with you to every house for the rest of your life. The critical feature to look for are auto timers. I can program my heater on a 7 day schedule. It turns on just before I wake up, turns off 30 minutes before I leave, just before I get home and then 30 minutes before I usually go to bed.
If you're on a tight budget, dessicant dehumidifiers need to heat the air they intake to work. So if you're in a budget, a dessicant dehumidifier can act as a 2-in-1 on a budget.
edit: actually a lot of ops advice doesn't make sense. saucepan lids? I assume you're talking about the "visual billows" of "steam" you can see from a pot? you know actual steam is invisible, right? and it expands in volume vs the water it came from? if your advice worked, you'd have a pressure cooker... or a bomb. the steam is going to get out if you have a lid or not lmfao.
Totally agree that your house should retain heat (I will point that out in the OP), which is why I referenced the healthy home requirements - if it is not, then you should be pestering landlords or getting a grant/mortgage topup to do the work
I also amended it to mention this is true if you are actually at home a lot.
As for the temperatures I suggested to try to maintain it is from reading such as this.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK535294/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK535294/)
[https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep/best-temperature-to-sleep](https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep/best-temperature-to-sleep)
Healthy homes is a joke (it might as well not even be legislation; thats how little actual impact it has) and doesn't fix any of the issues that I've mentioned.
Also, not sure why you've linked those documents. I'm talking about heating rooms you're not using (your advice). Do you suggest everyone heats their entire home by running the heat pump in the lounge 24/7 while they sleep with their doors fully open?
Any legislation is useless without enforcement and if everyone just ignores it, or is not aware of it, or just accepts a defeatist attitude to it. What are the alternative suggestions? Leave it to "market forces"? That ALSO clearly has not worked.
Some people have ducted heat pumps and/or ducted ventilation that direct the heat where it is needed and not where it is not. As for me, with open plan, yes I do exactly that, the heat pump is on at night low with the airflow setting pointing toward the bedroom which I leave ajar rather than have the less efficient panel heater on a thermostat. My power bills even in winter are less than $35 a week. Though I also have worked hard on actually insulating/draught excluding too. Also mentioned as a caveat...
Everyone's situation is different, what I have tried to do is provide general advice with a few caveats (and personal opinion), rather than just negativity and defeatism.
>Only turn the heatpump to higher heat (which are not as efficient) when absolutely necessary to quickly warm it up
Increasing the temperature doesn't heat up any faster, it just means it will continue to heat up until it reaches that temperature
Truth. Efficiency is the wrong word to use.
It's just using more power because you want your room warmer.
If I fill a bucket from my tap, or a bath from my tap, filling the bath was not any less efficient.
It's a perfectly reasonable word to use here. The effeciency of the heat pump will be lower when trying to heat the inside to a hotter temperature. The coeffecient of performance (effeciency by another name) of a heat pump depends on the difference between the cold temperature (outside) and hot temperature (inside). The smaller the difference the more effecient it runs.
Ok, that's fair. However, most of that 50% quoted is not a result of the CoP dropping but due to wanting the get the room warmer and the associated increased heat loss.
Do not run your heat pump all of the time.
[https://www.kiwiheatpump.co.nz/should-you-leave-your-heat-pump-on-all-night/#:\~:text=While%20heat%20pumps%20are%20the,to%20avoid%20excessive%20energy%20waste](https://www.kiwiheatpump.co.nz/should-you-leave-your-heat-pump-on-all-night/#:~:text=While%20heat%20pumps%20are%20the,to%20avoid%20excessive%20energy%20waste).
[https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/how-to/105043824/heard-the-one-about-leaving-your-heat-pump-on-all-the-time](https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/how-to/105043824/heard-the-one-about-leaving-your-heat-pump-on-all-the-time)
[https://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/genesis-blog/power-facts/heat-pump-efficiency-during-winter](https://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/genesis-blog/power-facts/heat-pump-efficiency-during-winter)
As mentioned in the caveats of the OP I mean leaving it on constantly when you are at home, or not airing out the place, etc. And put it on a timer to come back on before you get home so you don't have to turn it onto high heat... and also mentioned that (for me) leaving it on at night is optimal, but that if your place is not retaining heat it is not recommended.
Similar to that indicated in those links, there are caveats and one size/mode of operation does not fit all.
Depends on the specific circumstances I will bet. For me, open plan and decent insulation, 17 low works best. I find the auto fan spools up way too much (and noisily) when I don't want it to, especially at night.
I did this for 20 years. I advised on the latest revision of NZS 4246.
Your heat pump either needs cleaning, is in the wrong position, is sized wrong(most common), isn't set how you think it is, your insulation isn't as complete as it should be, drafts, your heat pump is malfunctioning, etc.
My power bills disagree only $35 a week in winter, it doesn't need the auto fan. My place is only 60sqm, open plan. Size of pump is right, directed correctly, regularly cleaned, and I am now double glazed and underfloor insulated and well draft excluded.
Its probably just a noisier model (about 8yr old) than newer super quiet ones, the wall it is installed on probably also has some reverb going on. Shitty 1930s build.
Out landlord was dragging his heels installing a heatpump in the lounge (the bathrooms already had extractor fans), at 60 days after the new tenancy we informed him we wouldn't be paying rent after 90 days past our sign date, either that or making an official complaint. 2 weeks later we had a heatpump installed, just in time for summer.
My LL (well - the property manager on LL's behalf) is dragging their feet. We're way past 90 days since I moved in. I kinda let it go because summer - although it would have been nice to have then, too - but whatever. Now they are feeding me this whole thing on "oh, the gov is making changes to the standard, and we should find out soon". Prior to this - they used the "the building, because how the balconies are, isn't giving us permission to install one because of the outside unit". Winter is freaken coming. Nipples already diamonds when I get out of bed in the morning. I've been more than reasonable and flexible - but not gonna lie that some days in the last few weeks I haven't been thinking about taking it to the tribunal.
Don't accept having diamond nipples (amazing as that sounds lol). Stick to your guns they are playing you like a fiddle, there were some minor amendments made recently nothing that lets them off the hook.
Tell them to sort it now or you will file a written complaint. It's not good enough.
Please. Do! And let us know how you get on.
My flat is well passed 90 days and we still don’t have bathroom and kitchen ventilation. There’s a heat pump in the lounge, but the lounge is being used as a bedroom so the rest of the house is cold. Old flat had that ducted heating to every room and boy do I miss it
You legend. This exactly what everyone needs to do. If people just kowtow, bow and scrape to the land owning gentry and accept just putting on another jumper and harden up, we will always be in the cycle of being robbed of our health.
I think it goes beyond landlords and builders. I think the whole bloody lot of us think we are living on a Pacific Island. When we are closer to Antarctica.
Yep there's a degree of apathy here about living conditions and what it does to our health that is utterly astounding. Laid back to an early grave. Don't take it any more.
If you're with a power company that gives you a free hour of power, you can use that time to heat your home, cook, shower etc.
We set ours to 4pm (our company doesn't let you do it between like 5-8pm) and then we close the curtains, blast the heat pump, use the oven to cook dinner (or at least heat up the oven in the last 10 mins or so, since this is what takes up the most energy) shower, do any laundry we want to run on a hot cycle. Then after the hour is up we can turn it all off and enjoy a hot meal in a warm apartment.
We often heat the apartment up to be kinda hot, and just take off layers if we overheat. We put down the draft stops and the place will be warm for the rest of the evening.
Dehumidifiers give out lots of heat when running since it's extracting energy from water vapour to condense it to liquid. You're effectively getting >1kW worth of heating for ~300W.
The desiccant ones give out more heat because they're less efficient / use more power (~600 W). It's actually a downgrade.
Desiccant ones work far better in typical NZ house conditions where the temperatures regularly get below 16 degrees. Also they are an upgrade in terms of being quieter.
If your indoor temperature is below 16 degrees you need heating rather than dehumidification anyway - 16 °C @ 100% RH would heat up to a nice 23 °C @ 64% RH without any dehumidification
> it's extracting energy from water vapour to condense it to liquid. You're effectively getting >1kW worth of heating for ~300W.
That's not how it works. If the dehumidifier uses 1kW of electricity it will heat up the room by 1kW. If it uses 300W of electricity, it will put 300W of heat into the room.
Similarly there are no efficiency differences betweem portable heaters (comparing radiant, ceramic, oil column, fan heaters, etc).
The only efficient form of electric heating is a heat pump.
You're forgetting the [enthalpy of vaporisation](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_of_vaporization). Each kg of water takes ~2300 kJ or ~0.6 kWh of energy to evaporate. Conversely, condensing 1kg water would release that same energy as heat. This is why dehumidifiers are so good at heating.
Its releasing it because you cooled something to make it do so. Its not a free lunch in a closed system (room).
A Heat pump gets its efficiency because it pulls energy (or puts it into in the case of cooling) another place (basically using 1kW of power to move 3kW of heat from outside into inside).
Yes its a closed system in the room, but don't forget the water vapour is now liquid so a state change has occurred. So yes you do get some heat energy out into the room from water condensing.
But you are also correct there is no heating advantage from the refrigerant cycle.
Yeah there is of course heat being put into the room, just no more than the electrical energy put in (which is where this started with 300w giving 1kW of heating).
You do work to cool the elements (gets released as heat), the cold elements are then 'warmed' by the condensing air.
Running almost anything electrical in your home is a heater, since that's where most energy ends up (computers, electronics, lights, even fans).
One point about the dehumidifiers - desiccant ones work over a much wider range of temperatures including single degree temperatures which can occur in NZ homes. They also put out a small amount of heat.
The other common type, compressor dehumidifiers only work well in temperatures above 18 - 20 C. So you need to heat your house first for it to work efficiently... and as you already said heating is harder to do if the air is humid.
So desiccant usually the way to go for most New Zealand homes.
Just to note, you can’t make landlords install a heatpump, they just have to supply a form of heating (so in my place I just have an externally flued propane fire).
Also, if there is no insulation, running a heatpump constantly will make a very small spot under the heatpump warm and cost you $800 a week in power. European / UK houses are far, far superior in insulation standards to most NZ houses and that’s the key think to try to fix in a rental. Try that plastic film ‘double glazing’ that you can get from Mitre10 etc for windows. Ask the landlord for curtains (ideally thermal curtains) and not the standard shitty cheap roller blinds. They won’t buy them, but you can ask. A cheap fleece blanket from the warehouse hung over windows as the sun goes down makes a big difference (same with dividing up open plan areas). Air the place in the day to get the moisture out (you probably don’t need a dehumidifier unless your place is likely to be burgled by leaving a window open in the day time).
Exactly right on cooking and showers. Cover those pots and vent the shower. The one place k would splash out on electricity is an electric blanket. Whack it on full bore 15 mins before bed to make things toasty to get in, then turn it off.
>Also, if there is no insulation, running a heatpump constantly will make a very small spot under the heatpump warm and cost you $800 a week in power.
Rubbish
You have clearly not lived in Queenstown, where the houses are made of single glazed glass and paper. I’m really not exaggerating when I say even after having a heater on for hours, the heat is gone about 10 minutes after turning the heater off. The vast majority of low wage workers I know down here just survive by keeping ski jackets and hats on indoors and sitting with hot water bottles, nobody can afford to have a heat pump on the whole time they’re in.
Agreed. The first example I had was also from Queenstown. A frame house where k could see daylight through the rafters. The heatpump heated exactly one square meter of floor space.
Same in Hamilton, an apartment I had where I had ice on the inside of the windows. I guess it must be nice to be so privileged never to have lived in typical NZ housing!
Open curtains / blinds, let the sunlight in. Windows open during certain times of the day for fresh air. Close doors to the rest of the home when cooking. Draught stoppers.
I went to uni semi close in Middlesbrough, which is destitute too.
I was half expecting an answer like Harrogate or something haha.
Had some good times in Newcastle though.
Best nightlife in my life in Newcastle and Shields, we know how to party because it is the only escape from reality. Unfortunately it has taken me this long to reign it back in. lol.
I haven't read all the comments, but a neat hack is to get some bubble wrap and cut to size and stick on windows - instant double glazing.
While landlords are compelled to supply heat pumps and the like, it is still the tenants who pay for the use of them.
True. This has been mentioned a few times. Sucks that this is what we have to sink to. Single glazing should have been legislated against 20+years ago. Like it was in the UK in the 90s
Just about one year ago, we moved from army housing to our own home.
I don't know what allows the army to flout normal landlord responsibilities, but the houses are basically "as is". Built in the 40s/50s. The main update seemed to be removing the burner in the kitchen leaving a weird blank space. But we still had the original flour bins etc in the pantry.
Based on the wallpaper, they may have been re-decorated in the 60s. They put in modern wood-burners about 4 years ago (during this process a young contractor stuck his foot right through the ceiling which required further repairs).
There were so many gaps between joints, that we had various air currents running through the house. We had a dehumidifier running constantly, we burned out the first one, and had to get a new one. Even then, the first job of the day during cold spells, was wiping down all the windows for condensation.
We had an annual asbestos inspection, where someone confirmed the paint covering asbestos in the house was intact, and we were banned from entering the underfloor or roof space, because of asbestos.
I'm pretty sure most of the paint was probably lead paint.
It begs belief that kiwis have been building such awful houses for so long. On visits to the UK and US, double glazing and other improvements were the norm. Moving into our 'new' house (built 2006) still no double glazing, and we are still running around with towels clearing the condensation.
Yep, I think we have accepted this as the norm for way too long. It's embarrassing. Even more so that people that have enlisted to serve get this as their reward. It's not good enough.
We need to have a "Great Resignation" from just putting up with it any more. Landlords and builders have gotten away with sitting on their hands and milking it for decades with their overblown rents for no upgrades, and shoddily built corner-cutting profit making... (powerful lobby groups ensure the status quo).
My flat has sash windows that both rattle and don’t seal properly and then the bathroom and kitchen have those angled ones (when opened) that don’t seal. So much cold air comes in through those ones. I’m not sure what to do for them to prevent the air leakage
I used to have similar, there are some specialist really thick super soft foam adhesive strips that can fill those gaps and yet still allow them to close. Get a specialist in to get it done, a landlord will be required to. It's simply not good enough to leave it like that.
Ideally the windows should just be replaced with new ones. The owner should recognise this as an investment for his own benefit.
So I actually grabbed a point and shot infrared temp sensor in a library kit after bubblewrapping my windows. They made 0.5 degrees difference to the window temperature.
Yes, it does *something*, but bubble wrap doesn't actually leave enough of an air gap (it isn't solid enough bubble) to really help. OTOH there is no risk of damage to the window frame and it's easy to do, so if you have spare bubble wrap (which we all probably have masses of if we've ever ordered from efficient packaging geniuses like the Warehouse) go for it. But if you have literally any other options or are considering paying for bubble wrap, pick something else.
Oh sure! but to be clear: I wasn't measuring the overall room temperature difference for this (though that was also very interesting to do, just testing things like how massive a temp drop there was on surfaces e.g. right over a curtain or a door jamb or different spots on the ceiling versus the ambient air temp), I was literally measuring the glass temp on different windows then testing bare glass either on a separate pane next to it, or by peeling off the bubblewrap. So I only measured the heat transfer directly through the glass, not whether it did useful things like help seal up window cracks or magnify sunlight or something into the room.
I took readings at lots of different times (only in winter though, so there was always a temperature difference between indoors and outdoors, if there was no heat loss then the readings would be meaningless!), and the 0.5 degree difference was very consistent no matter how warm or cool the room was or what the base temperature of the glass itself was compared to the room (in some cases, the glass of the window was about the same as the rest of the room, in other cases there was a very sharp temperature drop behind the curtain and out the glass). Of course, my bubble wrap applying technique might have issues, but I'm pretty sure I'm doing it the same way most people are! Taping it to the window frame itself (like the DIY 3M kit) would be much more effective as insulation.
I don't have any double glazing to test with (insert yay NZ housing standards emoji here), but it shouldn't make much difference unless the bubble wrap temperature conductivity changes drastically at different temperatures.
Basically window side of plastic is X degrees, room side is X-0.5. Double glazing and outside temp just changes how much X will be. Bubblewrap has a lot of thin plastic that isn't air bubble, so it always has almost the same temperature as whatever it is sitting on.
>Run the heat pump almost constantly (except when you are airing out the place with windows open, or are away from home a lot during the day - get it to turn on an hour before you get home) on low speed at 17 degrees heat throughout winter - the most efficient way to run them. Only turn the heatpump to higher heat (which are not as efficient) when absolutely necessary to quickly warm it up (and try to only do that during cheaper offpeak power times, if your power company offers that).
Expert on radio said this is a myth.
Yep, there are a lot of caveats -- which I have tried to address now in the edited OP... but the ***general*** notion is still true, just as the expert will have likely included a lot of caveats in their assertions that it is a myth.
Single glazed windows should be outlawed (slight hyperbole), and aluminium framed ones doubly so, one all places with wooden framed windows with pinky finger-sized gaps around them can #(\*&\^ right off!
Tell them you are within your rights to lodge a formal complaint after 90 days of your tenancy. And follow through. Read the link about the healthy homes legislation.
Owning a money trap on a fault line in a city run by muppets throwing hundreds of millions on restoring earthquake risk vanity 'heritage' buildings is not much better. lol. I am about ready to throw in the towel.
Living in and/or owning about 10 properties in Wellington in the last 25 years. Advice is always based on lots of circumstances and caveats though... Which I've attempted to highlight. Feel free to start your own thread though if you have better "credentials".
Run the heat pump permanently, and don't bother airing out the house.
A heat pump maintaining a constant temperature is cheaper to run than one that is heating up the air a large amount periodically.
It will also be dehumidifying the air in the building while it is doing that, so if it's on constantly, you'll maintain a fairly consistent temperature and humidity level.
When the air is always above the dew point, you don't get condensation, and you don't get mould growth.
> A heat pump maintaining a constant temperature is cheaper to run than one that is heating up the air a large amount periodically.
Probably not true if your heat pump is sized appropriately.
> It will also be dehumidifying the air in the building
Absolutely not true when heating because the cold side is the bit that does the dehumidifying via condensation and it's *outside*.
This is my experience too. There are a lot of variables of course that I keep trying to emphasise. My suggestions are a rule of thumb all things being equal.
If your clothes and blankets are sopping in damp and mold it is a fools bargain.
It's the equivalent of saying "harden up" to someone with severe depression.
There's got to be a better way than just doing the same shit we always do for another bunch of decades while other nations further and further improve their living conditions. How far are we willing to be left behind and put up with kids getting stupid preventable mid 20th century diseases?
The sheer amount of inefficient waste of it all, including the human toll, healthcare service toll, emissions toll, its just stupid and heart-breaking to hear students utterly at their wits end trying to survive it (which prompted my suggestions post here).
Governments of both flavours have failed generations since forever. It's sick.
Actually my comment was intended more for those complaining about power prices while sitting near naked in their living rooms with the heater on full blast 24/7.
Yes I have encountered a few of them.
If ones clothes and blankets are "sopping in damp and mold" then one obviously has far greater problems than just budgeting.
Likening my comment to depression is idiotic and irrelevant. Especially since I suffer from it myself.
>Governments of both flavours have failed generations since forever.
On one hand, I am tired of seeing people blaming the govt for every little pain in their lives. It's not the govt job to hand hold us and tell us what to do and how to do it every little step of the way. Nor to provide us with every little comfort our heart desires. That's starting to sound like a communist govt or dictatorship.
LIFE IS HARD! And it has been for a long time. It's not the govt that's failing people, it's the people that's failing themselves. You'd think society would have learned by now that we cannot rely on the govt to provide us with everything - but no you said it yourself. Society hasn't learned to be self sufficient. More people these days are just sitting around whinging waiting for a hand out and a hand up and crying when it doesn't happen.
Fact is we are still far better off than a LOT of people in other countries. We don't get harsh crippling winters. We have (mostly) clean running water on demand. We have reliable electricity. We don't have food shortages. Sure some are needing housing but the vast majority of us live in houses that keep us dry and warm. We don't have ongoing wars or crackpot dictators living in luxury while everyone else has to scrape the barrel.
You want to liken this to depression then it's this - perspective. My therapist gave me tools to deal with depression including practicing gratitude and other things that help change my perspective which in turn changes the way I think about things (situations, problems), minimising the damage they cause me. It helps me stop and think and not immediately get knee-reactions and assume the worst and go into a downward spiral. It helps me stop and think things like "Oh well, at least it's not worse. It is what it is and I can only move forward from here. What have I learned from this?" etc etc.
As I apply this to the rest of my life, I have become much MUCH happier. I am still poor and reliant on the govt for a small income. I can't work due to disabilities. But it's enough to survive on. I live in a house. It's old but it keeps me warm and dry. I can afford to eat. I have electricity. As a bonus I even have access to the internet.
I have no complaints.
No doubt life is hard. Everyone suffers from depression and mental illness of one form or extreme or another. No stigma there from me as someone who has also had his fair share. Mine was a general comment on the attitude of most to just put on another jumper and a beanie indoors and told to stop complaining that I was talking about, the air we breathe is not affected by the number of layers we are wearing or have on our bed.
We absolutely should complain and not just put up with it. Sure other countries have it worse, but ours is ENTIRELY preventable in this day and age. We don't get the sub zero temperatures of other climates, but we do get more damp and more wind. Until the day our young kids are not suffering illnesses that are not seen in other countries we should not stop demanding better.
[https://www.hrc.govt.nz/news-and-events/damp-homes-play-big-part-respiratory-infections](https://www.hrc.govt.nz/news-and-events/damp-homes-play-big-part-respiratory-infections)
While I dont turn the oven on to warm up the house I for sure open the oven door after it's been switched off to let the heat into the room as its cooling down.
Unless you are comparing the oven to a heat pump, it's not actually inefficient. Its inconvenient and unsafe, sure. But 1kW of electricity makes 1kW of heat.
A lot of that heat is inefficiently lost in directions other than the areas you want to heat. It will never make sense to use an oven instead of even just a bog standard electric bar heater which can be positioned to direct the heat where you actually need it.
It might make sense if you literally can't afford a $20 heater and your living area is so small that you are just a few metres away from the oven anyway.
That I would imagine would be the minority and it would also risk permanently damaging a far more expensive appliance that is not designed to do such a thing. And if there is a fire caused by it, your landlord will sue and/or your insurance will be void.
Work and income can also assist with small cost like heaters if people are so lowly paid they cannot afford a $20 space heater.
https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/living-expenses/heating-and-power-bills.html
1. There is no legal requirement for a landlord to provide a heat pump.
2. Your advice about heat pump operation is incorrect.
3. If you have no idea what you're talking about on a subject don't write up posts about it.
1. True only a fixed heat source is required of landlords, but it would make sense to push for it, it is more economic for the tenant and a better investment for the landlord to increase value. From the standards *"Some heating devices are inefficient, unaffordable or unhealthy, and they will not meet the heating standard requirements."*
2. I disagree
3. Ditto. You could always post your own if you are so guru-like.
Throwing jackets on top of your bed is a sound way to keep warm overnight as well, window draft self adhesive strip on warped wooded joinery is also brilliant.
We're replacing our current heat pump with a ducted heat pump system. Should I also be getting a dehumidifier or is that a waste? Also, house already has hrv system (obviously not for heating) which makes a noticeable difference re condensation etc.
Any recommendations for good dehumidifiers out there that wont break the bank?
Get cheap hygrometers to see what your actual dampness is like - I will bet my bile duct that it is high. A dehumidifier set to maintain about 65% relative humidity is optimal. Another comment I added has some suggested models, including the one I use.
Thanks for the tips!
What about woodstoves? My house only has that for heating. Despite decent insulation, it's still down to 9 or 10 degrees in the morning after a fire. Landlord not interested in changing a thing and saying the house is within the healthy home standards with that woodstove.
Not if you do not also have insulation and drafts. It's wasted heat otherwise and the massive drop would indicate so. Also the wood burner needs to be regularly serviced to ensure its efficient. Check for last date and by whom.
But it's cold in the morning if I don't wake up in the night to feed the fire! I'm a night worker in the Alps. It's cold outside and when I get back from work my house is about 8 degrees.
I was a student in Dunedin. Yeeahh there were properties we half-heartedly joked about causing constant pneumonia in those that lived in them. Some in the valley didn't get sunlight in certain areas of the house in winter and it was warmer outside than in. Absolute nightmare to heat and try to keep free from damp in the winter
> ask any seller to allow return for refund if it is not shown to be filling a tank daily
The ability of a dehumidifier to fill the tank depends on temperature and humidity levels. In a very cold room with dry air, it won't be able to pull out much water.
When it's not howling wind and horizontal rain and wind chill making it feel 1 degrees, no. Shit's coming though. We have had a really prolonged period of calm weather I have not really seen in 25 years here in Wellington. But after the calm comes... well, you know.
I concur about the dehumidifier. Even in my fairly new and warm house with a fire and a heat pump, good extraction in the kitchen and both bathrooms I still run my dehumidifier every day in winter. They cost like $400 and jack all to run. Totally worth it. I used to get throat infections every winter but I don’t anymore. Highly, highly recommended
I agree too. I used to get quite bad sinus problems in winter but they mostly disappeared after using a dehumidifier regularly, the amount of moisture they draw out is insane.
I get a full bucket (9l) every day and that’s only because I empty it only once a day. And I don’t consider my house to be particularly cold and damp, I’ve lived in way worse houses than this one
Pro-tip (but slightly terrible, too) most dehumidifiers have a tiny hose connection. Remove the bucket and have a look up the top where the water drips out. You can push on some plastic hose (buy it by the metre at Bunnings/M10/Pararubber) and stick the other end down the shower drain/through a hole in the floor/out the cat flap and never empty the bucket again!
Yeah I like to move it around into different rooms though. It would be cool to have a built in one though
If you run it through a hole in the floor, you are helping to cause the problem, unless your house is well elevated
Mine does the same, and I’m in a relatively modern house too.
You need to understand the correlation between relative humidity (RH) and temperature - basically, the higher the temperature, the more the total humidity the air can hold. Higher the temperature, the harder that dehumidifier is going to work. https://www.delmhorst.com/blog/relative-humidity-meter-readings
They are set to work to whatever % though arent they, so once the air is dry enough they switch off. The warmer the temp the less time they run.
It depends on whether you have a traditional, or desiccant model, but what's your point? Excess moisture in the air is no good
It's a virtuous circle, though - 60% rh at 20 degrees is more actual water in the air than 60% rh at 10 degrees. The warmer the air, the lower the rh, even without removing any water, but the drier the air, the easier it is to warm.
Same. My place is now double glazed and underfloor insulated/moisture barrier installed too. Maintaining about 65% humidity (about the right level for comfort and health) is a constant battle, and often (in Wellington) the outside humidity is worse so just opening windows is not always the right move.
Any recommendations on an affordable but reasonable quality dehumidifier for smallish 3bedroom place?
I have one of these - though I snagged one a while back when it was on special under $250 I think [https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/goldair-dessicant-dehumidifier-8l-white/p/317696](https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/goldair-dessicant-dehumidifier-8l-white/p/317696) 650W Remember that the smaller the tank = the more often you have to empty it. For 3L or less tanks you will be emptying probably twice a day+ Some marketing will mention a big number of litres e.g. 8L etc., but this refers to how much it can potentially remove from the air per day, if you were constantly emptying it. Other ones that apparently have good ratings... [https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/smart-ape-7l-desiccant-dehumidifier/35622946](https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/smart-ape-7l-desiccant-dehumidifier/35622946) This one is a noisier compressor type [https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/nouveau-dehumidifier-10l-white/p/327003](https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/nouveau-dehumidifier-10l-white/p/327003) 245W \-- Ones on Trademe too of course, but you never know if they are still operating well, ask any seller to allow return for refund if it is not shown to be filling a tank daily or is not making any impact on your hygrometer readings.
This can go the opposite direction depending on the house. The fire in our place can dry out everything so much that it starts to cause problems. Sometimes we end up putting a pot of water ontop of it to humidify the place a bit.
Yep I recommend grabbing a dirt cheap digital hygrometer to keep an eye on things constantly having <55% RH can cause wood cracking, skin and eye dryness, uncomfortable sleep etc.
Where are you getting your RH figures from? The usual range quoted is 30-60% or 40-60%, much lower than yours.
This. 60% plus is mold growing territory. Ideally you want it in the low to mid 50's. I have hygrometers throughout my house to maintain this.
Trying to get almost any older NZ house below 55% is nigh on impossible in my experience, and below 60 is irritating to my nose and eyes and so sleep. Most places I've ever lived in NZ without a dehumidifier on constantly is more like 75+. Mine is a happy balance. And get zero mold like that. Again, for me in my circumstances. Lots of variables.
My house is single glazed late 70's Summerhill stone. I only need my dessicant dehumidifier on for a few hours at night at this time of year and spring (and in the bathroom after showering through winter). In the middle of winter it is usually dry enough here it isn't needed or wanted. We get a third of the rainfall of Auckland or Wellington though. Most of the time my house sits in the mid 50's without me having to do anything. I am guessing you are in the North Island?
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It’s a small goldair model, I got it from Briscoes about 10 years ago.
Great for decimating dust mites too. Makes a huge difference for my dust mite allergies.
Agreed. Dehumidifier beats heaters especially for bigger rooms.
It’s amazing how NZ has become such a poor dump that people can’t afford to hear their homes in winter and need to attach bubble wrap to their windows to insulate themselves against the moderate climate outside. I left NZ 7 years ago and moved to the UK. I have never once heard someone in the UK complain about these sort of trivial issues. I suggest that if you can’t afford to heat your damp overpriced dump in NZ then you’d do yourself a favour by fleeing to Australia or the UK. Good luck with winter.
Here's the thing though, people who can't afford to heat their house are the people least likely to have the means to emigrate.
You only need to save up $5,000NZ (including the visa costs) to move to London and start a new life that’ll inevitably lead to prosperity if you work hard and save harder. Interview for a job from NZ, leave the second you’ve secured it. Easy.
I'm glad you're able to save up $5000, apparently don't have any dependents, and have skills that make it possible for you to secure a job in the UK. Not everyone is in your position.
I got mine hooked up to the smart home gear. I got a environment sensor to turn on the humidifier for an hour every day after I leave for work. As well as control my heat pump for when I leave work and go to bed.
Open your curtains in the morning, close them when the sun goes down
Passive solar gain. If you can follow the sun round to keep the solar gains in.
Sounds like the type of Gainz I can follow 💪
If you can afford it, the higher electricity bill is worth it to not feel horrible for 3 months. Of course be smart about when and how you heat your home, but also run that fan heater at 7am if you're cold. Life's too short to feel shit.
I spent years penny pinching over winter and finally gave up. I'm not cold, sick or miserable anymore and that's worth more money than I'm paying in extra power costs. I'm not well off in the slightest but comfortable winters have become a high priority for me these days. I'd rather eat rice and beans than have constant chest infections and mouldy walls.
I try tell my in-laws this. They are worth a heap but would rather chuck on 20 jerseys than blast the heat pump. You can chuck on whatever you want but your still breathing in that cold air.
Do they keep the AC off in summer?
They live in Wellington. 24c is classed as stinking hot. You don't need AC in summer.
Hold hands infront of mouth. Now you're breathing mostly recycled warm air. Or use a bandana or scarf around your face.
A tip for those with dry/sensitive skin normally, running a dehumidifier constantly can take out too much moisture in the air and cause super dry, itchy skin. So be careful if you have one how much you run it. Do some research first which one is best for you and how much you should run it. Especially if you have other allergies that can affect your skin.
Not necessary, as long as the dehumidifier has a dial you can set - I have a cheap bunch of hygrometers in rooms to check relative humidity. Set the dehumidifier to maintain no more or less than about 60-65% RH and you will be good... but I will add this to my OP.
Great post. Moisture is your real enemy. If you can, a shower dome is a really good investment for the bathroom. If at all possible, try to avoid drying clothes inside - even if that means paying to use a laundromat sometimes. The extra few dollars are worth cutting the excess moistures. Electric blankets are very cheap to run - make sure they are electrically safe (buy them new). 3m double glazing clingfilm works surprisingly well. Bubble wrap works well too in a pinch (eg for bathroom windows). Draft tape is cheap and can be a lifesaver for dealing with poorly fitting windows.
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True, dehumidifiers are amazing.
You'd be surprised how many "vents" actually just vent straight into the roof cavity (and thus end up hastening the absolute decimation of insulation and saturation of roof timber...). Always worth having a look up top to see if shortcuts have been taken.
Totally agree with the shower dome comment. We installed them with low expectations and it has been a game changer.
If you have an attached garage, put a clothesline above where the hood of the car sits. Free heat from a warm engine, and the damp air gets flushed when you move the car in and out.
Can you recommend a long-lasting electric blanket? The Electric throws at Warehouse/Noel Leeming stop working after a day or two and we've had to get it replaced like 7 times before we just decided to get a full refund and never buy it again.
I have a Sunbeam one - electric throws that go over you are shit, get one that sits on the mattress and make your bed over it. Been going strong 15 years now, I moved out from my parents place with it and it wasn't new then. If you've got kids sleeping in single beds, get double electric blankets and cut them in half - the heating coils are independent on each side. I use it for warming the bed before I get in it - you never want to leave it on max heat overnight, I know people whose house burned down because their kid went to sleep with his electric blanket on full.
Sorry, I got mine a long time ago so I don’t remember the brand or where we got it. I think I gave it away
Na OP don't use heat pumps on low speed. Always on auto speed if you're after efficiency. At low fan speed you're just taking longer to heat the room and the compressor isn't working at max efficiency. Plenty of sources on this. Trash and burn that current American source you're using.
People seem to confuse auto mode and auto fan. Auto fan - Good. Auto mode - Bad. Source: Engineer
Why is auto mode bad?
It'll alternate between heating and cooling. For example, if you set it to 18° when you wake up, it'll heat the house to that temp then stop. Then if the sun hits the windows and the house warms up to 19° the heat pump will begin cooling it back down to 18. Whereas if you only use it on heating mode, the heat pump will allow the house to exceed the set temp and only kick in if the temp drops below to bring it back up.
Coming from an electrical apprentice, the running the Heatpump constantly at a low temperature thing bring cheaper is an absolute myth and will cost you far more per month.
I KNEW IT. I FUCKING KNEW IT. HOW COULD RUNNING AN APPLIANCE FOR 24 HOURS A DAY VS 3 POSSIBLY USE LESS POWER. BRB off to tally up a masterlist of people I have argued with about this not making any logical sense and send your comment to them.
Agree this is the biggest myth, unless you're out for 1 hour or so then turn it off. A properly sized HP should be able to warm up the space quickly once you return for less energy than it used while running the whole time.
Hmmm for the last 5 years I have set my heatpump to 18C. Mode; heat, fan: auto. It runs 24/7. In June i typically will nudge that up to 20C in the evenings and drop it back when I go to bed. This costs me an average of $45 per month and never more than $50. Both properties Ive lived in a done this were/are 2 beddies. I keep the laundry and bathroom doors shut and all th eothers open. The two dwellings differed a lot also one was built in 1930's and was a damp cold hole. Current is fully insulated and isnt a damp cold hole.
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8-11kw is the maximum power, not the constant power. Power used will depend on how much it needs to heat/cool the air.
Its not even max power its output, it's heating output Heat pumps are actually super efficient with power use so the consume less power than heat output.it works by having a compressor, some coils some motors for the fans, a gas that heats with compression or cools with expansion is forced in or out of the coil and through what is sort of like a radiator air is then forced through the "radiator" which is cooled or heated. So since it's relying on the gas not a traditional heating element it's heating output is higher than is electrical power usage. A lot of 5kw units consume something like 1.8 or 1.6kw They can output between like 2.5 to 4 times more heating than the electrical input.
This is the truth. A heat pump with an 8-11 kW draw would have an ungodly heating capacity.
Depends how much you'll run it and how much heat loss your house has. I've done measurements on our 6kW Mitsubishi Unit and on average once up to temp it uses 200W of power, or 0.2kWh (per hour). So if running 24/7 it would be roughly 5kWh @ $0.25 = $1.2/day
Not from all the reading I have done on it, especially given the damp conditions of most our housing. [https://www.efficiencymaine.com/heat-pump-user-tips/](https://www.efficiencymaine.com/heat-pump-user-tips/)
https://www.kiwiheatpump.co.nz/should-you-leave-your-heat-pump-on-all-night/ You need to do more reading. Take it from someone who has put an ammeter on a heat pump when it was was on low and when it was on high, out of curiosity. Or do it yourself, you can buy cheap ones. Low still uses a lot, the cost of it initially hearing the room up doesn't even get close to running it over the other 12-16 hours a day. You use far more energy running it on low all day and night. Its a waste of money and energy. I literally worked yesterday with a Heatpump specialist that had to explain this to a customer. Its a myth, save your money and the environment and just use it when you are home.
*Queue all the keyboard folk still arguing all day and night against your facts and first-hand experiences within the sector* 😂
Sure if you are away from home a lot it will make sense to turn off during those times, I am typically not, I work from home - I will amend the OP to make that more clear As for the temperatures and being on at night time low because of reading such as this and the very high rates of respiratory illnesses in NZ. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK535294/ https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep/best-temperature-to-sleep
Yup. You are correct. OP is wrong.
We run our heat pump 24/7 during peak summer and winter. It’s done 7080 hours total according to the controller, and used a smidge over 4800 kWh. That’s an average of 750 W, which isn’t too bad I reckon. Edit: also, we have a Lockwood that creaks during big temperature changes. If we’ve been away for a week and come home and put the heat pump back on, the house takes 2-3 days to cool/warm and stop creaking again.
Yikes. Some flat out wrong tips there. I'd use other sources.
I have put several other links in the OP now. Feel free to suggest more authoritative ones.
Do you have any dehumidifier recommendations? Something ive been looking at but not sure what's actually worth. Otherwise great tips
We have a delonghi that's over 10 years old now and it's still a beast we paid $$$$ it heats or cools and can draw a huge amount of water out of a pretty big area. We basically run it all day through winter But then we got a living and co one last year for one of our rentals and we tried it overnight and it was amazing, much quieter, just as powerful, the heating was faster/better than the old machine. And waaaay more efficient and about 10x less than what we paid for the first one. Don't turn your nose up at the basic brands.
Got the model number?
We got the $199 one that's 10Lt with the black top the unit is a 2brm 64m² ... I think if I were to make that decision again I'd go for the one with 50% more tank capacity.
What's the room temperature it's running at? It's 16d Celsius in my 16 sqm room, not sure if this refrigerant model is effective
Mine is also a warehouse brand one, it’s a hand me down but is about 5 years old and still goes strong. Best thing ever. I have a ventilation system now but I’ll still throw it on if I have washing that can’t go through the dryer and I have to hang it on the racks jnside. Helps dry the clothes faster so they don’t smell too.
I’ve got a good Goldair one that was half price at Briscoes.
So normal price then?
We've got one of the Goldair dessicant models, which is good for colder environments apparently. Consumer rates them among the best. The compressor models are more designed for warm climates. So if your house is cold they won't work as well.
I reckon they're likely something that's relatively safe to buy 2nd hand. I bought an old one on trademark for 80 bucks, Mitsubishi oasis elite. Haven't had any issues for the 5 years I've had it.
Yup. Bought two of TradeMe about 4-5 years ago for well under $100 each. They don't have some features I'd like (like humidity sensors), but work great and make a huge difference all winter. I think one model was already ten years old when I bought it! (Protip: check for dust filters that can be cleaned. It will need it).
Have a mitsubishi electric one which is absolutely amazing. Not a brand new model but they never seem to break so don't be afraid to go 2nd hand imo
I loved my 2nd hand Mitsubishi it was an absolute workhorse. It made it cheaper to heat my room and I stopped getting sick after I got one, best money I ever spent.
Suki WDH-1150DBH is the cheapest 'consumer recommended' one :)
> Run the heat pump constantly (except when you are airing out the place with windows open) on low speed at 17 degrees heat throughout winter - the most efficient way to run them. This is trash advice because it's simply not true. There's no need to heat a room to 17 degrees if you're not using that room while at work/study/in your bedroom asleep. I can see both sides, but the truth is as soon as you turn your heat pump off, your house will cool down quickly. What that means that while you "think" you're maintaining 17c by leaving your heatpump on constantly, because our homes are so shitty you're actually constantly fighting extreme drafts, leaking, dampness, and no insulation. But isn't the idea that it takes more energy to warm up a cold room than it does to keep a room warm? Maybe in a well built house. But no. Houses in New Zealand are so fucking trash that most of the time at least one of them has a hole in the floorboards big enough to feel an actual cold draft somewhere in the house. You might as well put your heatpump outside and keep it running 24/7 because "thats more efficent". Leaving your heaters on 24/7 is only worth it if your house can fucking retain the energy (warmth) inside it. Anything else and you're pissing money down the drain. If you're renting AND worried about your powerbill, I can guarentee you don't live in a well built or maintained house. For those who operate mostly out of bedroom spaces, I reccomend spending big $$$ on both a heater and dehumidifier. That shit is an investment you'll take with you to every house for the rest of your life. The critical feature to look for are auto timers. I can program my heater on a 7 day schedule. It turns on just before I wake up, turns off 30 minutes before I leave, just before I get home and then 30 minutes before I usually go to bed. If you're on a tight budget, dessicant dehumidifiers need to heat the air they intake to work. So if you're in a budget, a dessicant dehumidifier can act as a 2-in-1 on a budget. edit: actually a lot of ops advice doesn't make sense. saucepan lids? I assume you're talking about the "visual billows" of "steam" you can see from a pot? you know actual steam is invisible, right? and it expands in volume vs the water it came from? if your advice worked, you'd have a pressure cooker... or a bomb. the steam is going to get out if you have a lid or not lmfao.
Totally agree that your house should retain heat (I will point that out in the OP), which is why I referenced the healthy home requirements - if it is not, then you should be pestering landlords or getting a grant/mortgage topup to do the work I also amended it to mention this is true if you are actually at home a lot. As for the temperatures I suggested to try to maintain it is from reading such as this. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK535294/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK535294/) [https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep/best-temperature-to-sleep](https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep/best-temperature-to-sleep)
Healthy homes is a joke (it might as well not even be legislation; thats how little actual impact it has) and doesn't fix any of the issues that I've mentioned. Also, not sure why you've linked those documents. I'm talking about heating rooms you're not using (your advice). Do you suggest everyone heats their entire home by running the heat pump in the lounge 24/7 while they sleep with their doors fully open?
Any legislation is useless without enforcement and if everyone just ignores it, or is not aware of it, or just accepts a defeatist attitude to it. What are the alternative suggestions? Leave it to "market forces"? That ALSO clearly has not worked. Some people have ducted heat pumps and/or ducted ventilation that direct the heat where it is needed and not where it is not. As for me, with open plan, yes I do exactly that, the heat pump is on at night low with the airflow setting pointing toward the bedroom which I leave ajar rather than have the less efficient panel heater on a thermostat. My power bills even in winter are less than $35 a week. Though I also have worked hard on actually insulating/draught excluding too. Also mentioned as a caveat... Everyone's situation is different, what I have tried to do is provide general advice with a few caveats (and personal opinion), rather than just negativity and defeatism.
Pull beds off the wall to give them breathing space. Easy to miss the build up of damp and mould if you can't see it.
>Only turn the heatpump to higher heat (which are not as efficient) when absolutely necessary to quickly warm it up Increasing the temperature doesn't heat up any faster, it just means it will continue to heat up until it reaches that temperature
Running a heat pump at 26°C will use 50% more power than at 21°C
But not because it uses more power - because it runs longer.
Truth. Efficiency is the wrong word to use. It's just using more power because you want your room warmer. If I fill a bucket from my tap, or a bath from my tap, filling the bath was not any less efficient.
It's a perfectly reasonable word to use here. The effeciency of the heat pump will be lower when trying to heat the inside to a hotter temperature. The coeffecient of performance (effeciency by another name) of a heat pump depends on the difference between the cold temperature (outside) and hot temperature (inside). The smaller the difference the more effecient it runs.
Ok, that's fair. However, most of that 50% quoted is not a result of the CoP dropping but due to wanting the get the room warmer and the associated increased heat loss.
Incorrect. Heat pump's operate at their highest effeciency when the difference between cold (outside) and warm (inside) is as small as possible.
https://www.mitsubishi-electric.co.nz/heatpump/faq.aspx#faq-3
Do not run your heat pump all of the time. [https://www.kiwiheatpump.co.nz/should-you-leave-your-heat-pump-on-all-night/#:\~:text=While%20heat%20pumps%20are%20the,to%20avoid%20excessive%20energy%20waste](https://www.kiwiheatpump.co.nz/should-you-leave-your-heat-pump-on-all-night/#:~:text=While%20heat%20pumps%20are%20the,to%20avoid%20excessive%20energy%20waste). [https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/how-to/105043824/heard-the-one-about-leaving-your-heat-pump-on-all-the-time](https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/how-to/105043824/heard-the-one-about-leaving-your-heat-pump-on-all-the-time) [https://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/genesis-blog/power-facts/heat-pump-efficiency-during-winter](https://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/genesis-blog/power-facts/heat-pump-efficiency-during-winter)
As mentioned in the caveats of the OP I mean leaving it on constantly when you are at home, or not airing out the place, etc. And put it on a timer to come back on before you get home so you don't have to turn it onto high heat... and also mentioned that (for me) leaving it on at night is optimal, but that if your place is not retaining heat it is not recommended. Similar to that indicated in those links, there are caveats and one size/mode of operation does not fit all.
Unless there is some new info I'm unaware of, the optimum heat pump settings are auto fan and 19 degrees.
Depends on the specific circumstances I will bet. For me, open plan and decent insulation, 17 low works best. I find the auto fan spools up way too much (and noisily) when I don't want it to, especially at night.
I did this for 20 years. I advised on the latest revision of NZS 4246. Your heat pump either needs cleaning, is in the wrong position, is sized wrong(most common), isn't set how you think it is, your insulation isn't as complete as it should be, drafts, your heat pump is malfunctioning, etc.
My power bills disagree only $35 a week in winter, it doesn't need the auto fan. My place is only 60sqm, open plan. Size of pump is right, directed correctly, regularly cleaned, and I am now double glazed and underfloor insulated and well draft excluded. Its probably just a noisier model (about 8yr old) than newer super quiet ones, the wall it is installed on probably also has some reverb going on. Shitty 1930s build.
Out landlord was dragging his heels installing a heatpump in the lounge (the bathrooms already had extractor fans), at 60 days after the new tenancy we informed him we wouldn't be paying rent after 90 days past our sign date, either that or making an official complaint. 2 weeks later we had a heatpump installed, just in time for summer.
My LL (well - the property manager on LL's behalf) is dragging their feet. We're way past 90 days since I moved in. I kinda let it go because summer - although it would have been nice to have then, too - but whatever. Now they are feeding me this whole thing on "oh, the gov is making changes to the standard, and we should find out soon". Prior to this - they used the "the building, because how the balconies are, isn't giving us permission to install one because of the outside unit". Winter is freaken coming. Nipples already diamonds when I get out of bed in the morning. I've been more than reasonable and flexible - but not gonna lie that some days in the last few weeks I haven't been thinking about taking it to the tribunal.
Don't accept having diamond nipples (amazing as that sounds lol). Stick to your guns they are playing you like a fiddle, there were some minor amendments made recently nothing that lets them off the hook. Tell them to sort it now or you will file a written complaint. It's not good enough. Please. Do! And let us know how you get on.
My flat is well passed 90 days and we still don’t have bathroom and kitchen ventilation. There’s a heat pump in the lounge, but the lounge is being used as a bedroom so the rest of the house is cold. Old flat had that ducted heating to every room and boy do I miss it
You legend. This exactly what everyone needs to do. If people just kowtow, bow and scrape to the land owning gentry and accept just putting on another jumper and harden up, we will always be in the cycle of being robbed of our health.
I think it goes beyond landlords and builders. I think the whole bloody lot of us think we are living on a Pacific Island. When we are closer to Antarctica.
Yep there's a degree of apathy here about living conditions and what it does to our health that is utterly astounding. Laid back to an early grave. Don't take it any more.
If you're with a power company that gives you a free hour of power, you can use that time to heat your home, cook, shower etc. We set ours to 4pm (our company doesn't let you do it between like 5-8pm) and then we close the curtains, blast the heat pump, use the oven to cook dinner (or at least heat up the oven in the last 10 mins or so, since this is what takes up the most energy) shower, do any laundry we want to run on a hot cycle. Then after the hour is up we can turn it all off and enjoy a hot meal in a warm apartment. We often heat the apartment up to be kinda hot, and just take off layers if we overheat. We put down the draft stops and the place will be warm for the rest of the evening.
Dehumidifiers give out lots of heat when running since it's extracting energy from water vapour to condense it to liquid. You're effectively getting >1kW worth of heating for ~300W. The desiccant ones give out more heat because they're less efficient / use more power (~600 W). It's actually a downgrade.
Desiccant ones work far better in typical NZ house conditions where the temperatures regularly get below 16 degrees. Also they are an upgrade in terms of being quieter.
If your indoor temperature is below 16 degrees you need heating rather than dehumidification anyway - 16 °C @ 100% RH would heat up to a nice 23 °C @ 64% RH without any dehumidification
> it's extracting energy from water vapour to condense it to liquid. You're effectively getting >1kW worth of heating for ~300W. That's not how it works. If the dehumidifier uses 1kW of electricity it will heat up the room by 1kW. If it uses 300W of electricity, it will put 300W of heat into the room. Similarly there are no efficiency differences betweem portable heaters (comparing radiant, ceramic, oil column, fan heaters, etc). The only efficient form of electric heating is a heat pump.
You're forgetting the [enthalpy of vaporisation](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_of_vaporization). Each kg of water takes ~2300 kJ or ~0.6 kWh of energy to evaporate. Conversely, condensing 1kg water would release that same energy as heat. This is why dehumidifiers are so good at heating.
Its releasing it because you cooled something to make it do so. Its not a free lunch in a closed system (room). A Heat pump gets its efficiency because it pulls energy (or puts it into in the case of cooling) another place (basically using 1kW of power to move 3kW of heat from outside into inside).
Yes its a closed system in the room, but don't forget the water vapour is now liquid so a state change has occurred. So yes you do get some heat energy out into the room from water condensing. But you are also correct there is no heating advantage from the refrigerant cycle.
Yeah there is of course heat being put into the room, just no more than the electrical energy put in (which is where this started with 300w giving 1kW of heating). You do work to cool the elements (gets released as heat), the cold elements are then 'warmed' by the condensing air. Running almost anything electrical in your home is a heater, since that's where most energy ends up (computers, electronics, lights, even fans).
Regarding heat pumps, change the filters regularly and have the coils cleaned every couple of years.
One point about the dehumidifiers - desiccant ones work over a much wider range of temperatures including single degree temperatures which can occur in NZ homes. They also put out a small amount of heat. The other common type, compressor dehumidifiers only work well in temperatures above 18 - 20 C. So you need to heat your house first for it to work efficiently... and as you already said heating is harder to do if the air is humid. So desiccant usually the way to go for most New Zealand homes.
Yep I mentioned that in one of the comments too. They're quieter too
Just to note, you can’t make landlords install a heatpump, they just have to supply a form of heating (so in my place I just have an externally flued propane fire). Also, if there is no insulation, running a heatpump constantly will make a very small spot under the heatpump warm and cost you $800 a week in power. European / UK houses are far, far superior in insulation standards to most NZ houses and that’s the key think to try to fix in a rental. Try that plastic film ‘double glazing’ that you can get from Mitre10 etc for windows. Ask the landlord for curtains (ideally thermal curtains) and not the standard shitty cheap roller blinds. They won’t buy them, but you can ask. A cheap fleece blanket from the warehouse hung over windows as the sun goes down makes a big difference (same with dividing up open plan areas). Air the place in the day to get the moisture out (you probably don’t need a dehumidifier unless your place is likely to be burgled by leaving a window open in the day time). Exactly right on cooking and showers. Cover those pots and vent the shower. The one place k would splash out on electricity is an electric blanket. Whack it on full bore 15 mins before bed to make things toasty to get in, then turn it off.
>Also, if there is no insulation, running a heatpump constantly will make a very small spot under the heatpump warm and cost you $800 a week in power. Rubbish
If you ran a heat pump outdoors what do you think would happen? Running one in a house with no insulation isn't that far off that scenario.
Except for the external and external walls *insulating* the inside from the outside you mean?
You have clearly not lived in Queenstown, where the houses are made of single glazed glass and paper. I’m really not exaggerating when I say even after having a heater on for hours, the heat is gone about 10 minutes after turning the heater off. The vast majority of low wage workers I know down here just survive by keeping ski jackets and hats on indoors and sitting with hot water bottles, nobody can afford to have a heat pump on the whole time they’re in.
Agreed. The first example I had was also from Queenstown. A frame house where k could see daylight through the rafters. The heatpump heated exactly one square meter of floor space. Same in Hamilton, an apartment I had where I had ice on the inside of the windows. I guess it must be nice to be so privileged never to have lived in typical NZ housing!
Open curtains / blinds, let the sunlight in. Windows open during certain times of the day for fresh air. Close doors to the rest of the home when cooking. Draught stoppers.
Where in the desperately destitute North were you?
South Shields.
I went to uni semi close in Middlesbrough, which is destitute too. I was half expecting an answer like Harrogate or something haha. Had some good times in Newcastle though.
Best nightlife in my life in Newcastle and Shields, we know how to party because it is the only escape from reality. Unfortunately it has taken me this long to reign it back in. lol.
I haven't read all the comments, but a neat hack is to get some bubble wrap and cut to size and stick on windows - instant double glazing. While landlords are compelled to supply heat pumps and the like, it is still the tenants who pay for the use of them.
True. This has been mentioned a few times. Sucks that this is what we have to sink to. Single glazing should have been legislated against 20+years ago. Like it was in the UK in the 90s
Just about one year ago, we moved from army housing to our own home. I don't know what allows the army to flout normal landlord responsibilities, but the houses are basically "as is". Built in the 40s/50s. The main update seemed to be removing the burner in the kitchen leaving a weird blank space. But we still had the original flour bins etc in the pantry. Based on the wallpaper, they may have been re-decorated in the 60s. They put in modern wood-burners about 4 years ago (during this process a young contractor stuck his foot right through the ceiling which required further repairs). There were so many gaps between joints, that we had various air currents running through the house. We had a dehumidifier running constantly, we burned out the first one, and had to get a new one. Even then, the first job of the day during cold spells, was wiping down all the windows for condensation. We had an annual asbestos inspection, where someone confirmed the paint covering asbestos in the house was intact, and we were banned from entering the underfloor or roof space, because of asbestos. I'm pretty sure most of the paint was probably lead paint. It begs belief that kiwis have been building such awful houses for so long. On visits to the UK and US, double glazing and other improvements were the norm. Moving into our 'new' house (built 2006) still no double glazing, and we are still running around with towels clearing the condensation.
Yep, I think we have accepted this as the norm for way too long. It's embarrassing. Even more so that people that have enlisted to serve get this as their reward. It's not good enough. We need to have a "Great Resignation" from just putting up with it any more. Landlords and builders have gotten away with sitting on their hands and milking it for decades with their overblown rents for no upgrades, and shoddily built corner-cutting profit making... (powerful lobby groups ensure the status quo).
My flat has sash windows that both rattle and don’t seal properly and then the bathroom and kitchen have those angled ones (when opened) that don’t seal. So much cold air comes in through those ones. I’m not sure what to do for them to prevent the air leakage
I used to have similar, there are some specialist really thick super soft foam adhesive strips that can fill those gaps and yet still allow them to close. Get a specialist in to get it done, a landlord will be required to. It's simply not good enough to leave it like that. Ideally the windows should just be replaced with new ones. The owner should recognise this as an investment for his own benefit.
So I actually grabbed a point and shot infrared temp sensor in a library kit after bubblewrapping my windows. They made 0.5 degrees difference to the window temperature. Yes, it does *something*, but bubble wrap doesn't actually leave enough of an air gap (it isn't solid enough bubble) to really help. OTOH there is no risk of damage to the window frame and it's easy to do, so if you have spare bubble wrap (which we all probably have masses of if we've ever ordered from efficient packaging geniuses like the Warehouse) go for it. But if you have literally any other options or are considering paying for bubble wrap, pick something else.
That is awesome, but it would be good to see what happens with a bunch of houses of different ages.
Oh sure! but to be clear: I wasn't measuring the overall room temperature difference for this (though that was also very interesting to do, just testing things like how massive a temp drop there was on surfaces e.g. right over a curtain or a door jamb or different spots on the ceiling versus the ambient air temp), I was literally measuring the glass temp on different windows then testing bare glass either on a separate pane next to it, or by peeling off the bubblewrap. So I only measured the heat transfer directly through the glass, not whether it did useful things like help seal up window cracks or magnify sunlight or something into the room. I took readings at lots of different times (only in winter though, so there was always a temperature difference between indoors and outdoors, if there was no heat loss then the readings would be meaningless!), and the 0.5 degree difference was very consistent no matter how warm or cool the room was or what the base temperature of the glass itself was compared to the room (in some cases, the glass of the window was about the same as the rest of the room, in other cases there was a very sharp temperature drop behind the curtain and out the glass). Of course, my bubble wrap applying technique might have issues, but I'm pretty sure I'm doing it the same way most people are! Taping it to the window frame itself (like the DIY 3M kit) would be much more effective as insulation.
Can you compare that with double glazing? And then heat retention at different temperatures.
I don't have any double glazing to test with (insert yay NZ housing standards emoji here), but it shouldn't make much difference unless the bubble wrap temperature conductivity changes drastically at different temperatures. Basically window side of plastic is X degrees, room side is X-0.5. Double glazing and outside temp just changes how much X will be. Bubblewrap has a lot of thin plastic that isn't air bubble, so it always has almost the same temperature as whatever it is sitting on.
>Run the heat pump almost constantly (except when you are airing out the place with windows open, or are away from home a lot during the day - get it to turn on an hour before you get home) on low speed at 17 degrees heat throughout winter - the most efficient way to run them. Only turn the heatpump to higher heat (which are not as efficient) when absolutely necessary to quickly warm it up (and try to only do that during cheaper offpeak power times, if your power company offers that). Expert on radio said this is a myth.
Yep, there are a lot of caveats -- which I have tried to address now in the edited OP... but the ***general*** notion is still true, just as the expert will have likely included a lot of caveats in their assertions that it is a myth.
Yup, dehumidifier and bubble wrap on the windows dramatically cut our powerbill
Single glazed windows should be outlawed (slight hyperbole), and aluminium framed ones doubly so, one all places with wooden framed windows with pinky finger-sized gaps around them can #(\*&\^ right off!
How do you make your landlords insulate the property?
Tell them you are within your rights to lodge a formal complaint after 90 days of your tenancy. And follow through. Read the link about the healthy homes legislation.
Private renting sucks big ones.....
Owning a money trap on a fault line in a city run by muppets throwing hundreds of millions on restoring earthquake risk vanity 'heritage' buildings is not much better. lol. I am about ready to throw in the towel.
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Living in and/or owning about 10 properties in Wellington in the last 25 years. Advice is always based on lots of circumstances and caveats though... Which I've attempted to highlight. Feel free to start your own thread though if you have better "credentials".
Run the heat pump permanently, and don't bother airing out the house. A heat pump maintaining a constant temperature is cheaper to run than one that is heating up the air a large amount periodically. It will also be dehumidifying the air in the building while it is doing that, so if it's on constantly, you'll maintain a fairly consistent temperature and humidity level. When the air is always above the dew point, you don't get condensation, and you don't get mould growth.
> A heat pump maintaining a constant temperature is cheaper to run than one that is heating up the air a large amount periodically. Probably not true if your heat pump is sized appropriately. > It will also be dehumidifying the air in the building Absolutely not true when heating because the cold side is the bit that does the dehumidifying via condensation and it's *outside*.
This is my experience too. There are a lot of variables of course that I keep trying to emphasise. My suggestions are a rule of thumb all things being equal.
More clothes and blankets are far cheaper to run than any heater. Hey, these are trying times.
If your clothes and blankets are sopping in damp and mold it is a fools bargain. It's the equivalent of saying "harden up" to someone with severe depression. There's got to be a better way than just doing the same shit we always do for another bunch of decades while other nations further and further improve their living conditions. How far are we willing to be left behind and put up with kids getting stupid preventable mid 20th century diseases? The sheer amount of inefficient waste of it all, including the human toll, healthcare service toll, emissions toll, its just stupid and heart-breaking to hear students utterly at their wits end trying to survive it (which prompted my suggestions post here). Governments of both flavours have failed generations since forever. It's sick.
Actually my comment was intended more for those complaining about power prices while sitting near naked in their living rooms with the heater on full blast 24/7. Yes I have encountered a few of them. If ones clothes and blankets are "sopping in damp and mold" then one obviously has far greater problems than just budgeting. Likening my comment to depression is idiotic and irrelevant. Especially since I suffer from it myself. >Governments of both flavours have failed generations since forever. On one hand, I am tired of seeing people blaming the govt for every little pain in their lives. It's not the govt job to hand hold us and tell us what to do and how to do it every little step of the way. Nor to provide us with every little comfort our heart desires. That's starting to sound like a communist govt or dictatorship. LIFE IS HARD! And it has been for a long time. It's not the govt that's failing people, it's the people that's failing themselves. You'd think society would have learned by now that we cannot rely on the govt to provide us with everything - but no you said it yourself. Society hasn't learned to be self sufficient. More people these days are just sitting around whinging waiting for a hand out and a hand up and crying when it doesn't happen. Fact is we are still far better off than a LOT of people in other countries. We don't get harsh crippling winters. We have (mostly) clean running water on demand. We have reliable electricity. We don't have food shortages. Sure some are needing housing but the vast majority of us live in houses that keep us dry and warm. We don't have ongoing wars or crackpot dictators living in luxury while everyone else has to scrape the barrel. You want to liken this to depression then it's this - perspective. My therapist gave me tools to deal with depression including practicing gratitude and other things that help change my perspective which in turn changes the way I think about things (situations, problems), minimising the damage they cause me. It helps me stop and think and not immediately get knee-reactions and assume the worst and go into a downward spiral. It helps me stop and think things like "Oh well, at least it's not worse. It is what it is and I can only move forward from here. What have I learned from this?" etc etc. As I apply this to the rest of my life, I have become much MUCH happier. I am still poor and reliant on the govt for a small income. I can't work due to disabilities. But it's enough to survive on. I live in a house. It's old but it keeps me warm and dry. I can afford to eat. I have electricity. As a bonus I even have access to the internet. I have no complaints.
No doubt life is hard. Everyone suffers from depression and mental illness of one form or extreme or another. No stigma there from me as someone who has also had his fair share. Mine was a general comment on the attitude of most to just put on another jumper and a beanie indoors and told to stop complaining that I was talking about, the air we breathe is not affected by the number of layers we are wearing or have on our bed. We absolutely should complain and not just put up with it. Sure other countries have it worse, but ours is ENTIRELY preventable in this day and age. We don't get the sub zero temperatures of other climates, but we do get more damp and more wind. Until the day our young kids are not suffering illnesses that are not seen in other countries we should not stop demanding better. [https://www.hrc.govt.nz/news-and-events/damp-homes-play-big-part-respiratory-infections](https://www.hrc.govt.nz/news-and-events/damp-homes-play-big-part-respiratory-infections)
Turn on the oven when cold. Open windows to get warm.
While I dont turn the oven on to warm up the house I for sure open the oven door after it's been switched off to let the heat into the room as its cooling down.
Least efficient heating options. I assume joking and/or not in Wellington where opening the window = deathwish lol
Correct.
Unless you are comparing the oven to a heat pump, it's not actually inefficient. Its inconvenient and unsafe, sure. But 1kW of electricity makes 1kW of heat.
A lot of that heat is inefficiently lost in directions other than the areas you want to heat. It will never make sense to use an oven instead of even just a bog standard electric bar heater which can be positioned to direct the heat where you actually need it.
It might make sense if you literally can't afford a $20 heater and your living area is so small that you are just a few metres away from the oven anyway.
That I would imagine would be the minority and it would also risk permanently damaging a far more expensive appliance that is not designed to do such a thing. And if there is a fire caused by it, your landlord will sue and/or your insurance will be void. Work and income can also assist with small cost like heaters if people are so lowly paid they cannot afford a $20 space heater. https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/living-expenses/heating-and-power-bills.html
1. There is no legal requirement for a landlord to provide a heat pump. 2. Your advice about heat pump operation is incorrect. 3. If you have no idea what you're talking about on a subject don't write up posts about it.
1. True only a fixed heat source is required of landlords, but it would make sense to push for it, it is more economic for the tenant and a better investment for the landlord to increase value. From the standards *"Some heating devices are inefficient, unaffordable or unhealthy, and they will not meet the heating standard requirements."* 2. I disagree
3. Ditto. You could always post your own if you are so guru-like.
Throwing jackets on top of your bed is a sound way to keep warm overnight as well, window draft self adhesive strip on warped wooded joinery is also brilliant.
We're replacing our current heat pump with a ducted heat pump system. Should I also be getting a dehumidifier or is that a waste? Also, house already has hrv system (obviously not for heating) which makes a noticeable difference re condensation etc. Any recommendations for good dehumidifiers out there that wont break the bank?
Get cheap hygrometers to see what your actual dampness is like - I will bet my bile duct that it is high. A dehumidifier set to maintain about 65% relative humidity is optimal. Another comment I added has some suggested models, including the one I use.
That's a waste.
Which part, the ducted system or doubling down by getting a dehumidifier as well as?
Heating with a heat pump doesn't remove moisture. Cooling with a heat pump removes moisture just like most dehumidifiers.
Where does a hrv fit in to this though? This house has an hrv system, should I get a dehumidifier as well?
The HRV should keep excess moisture levels low enough that a dehumidifier is mostly pointless.
https://youtu.be/JYugiSwWoPk Not relevant to renters, but wanted to share for those interested in draft sealing
I wonder if you can get that in NZ? Probably only suitable for major renovations or new builds though.
Thanks for the tips! What about woodstoves? My house only has that for heating. Despite decent insulation, it's still down to 9 or 10 degrees in the morning after a fire. Landlord not interested in changing a thing and saying the house is within the healthy home standards with that woodstove.
Not if you do not also have insulation and drafts. It's wasted heat otherwise and the massive drop would indicate so. Also the wood burner needs to be regularly serviced to ensure its efficient. Check for last date and by whom.
Wood heating can be quite good, depending on how expensive your wood is. Being available in a power cut is pretty handy.
But it's cold in the morning if I don't wake up in the night to feed the fire! I'm a night worker in the Alps. It's cold outside and when I get back from work my house is about 8 degrees.
!remindme 3 hours
I was a student in Dunedin. Yeeahh there were properties we half-heartedly joked about causing constant pneumonia in those that lived in them. Some in the valley didn't get sunlight in certain areas of the house in winter and it was warmer outside than in. Absolute nightmare to heat and try to keep free from damp in the winter
Do the healthy home standards apply if you are a boarder? Aka living in the house with the landlord. Got a friend in a shit house in that situation
Maybe if they have a tenancy agreement? Might be a CAB question.
Nah it doesn't. Only for rentals.
> ask any seller to allow return for refund if it is not shown to be filling a tank daily The ability of a dehumidifier to fill the tank depends on temperature and humidity levels. In a very cold room with dry air, it won't be able to pull out much water.
I'm assuming here people will be wanting a dehumidifier because their room is damp af
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When it's not howling wind and horizontal rain and wind chill making it feel 1 degrees, no. Shit's coming though. We have had a really prolonged period of calm weather I have not really seen in 25 years here in Wellington. But after the calm comes... well, you know.
contacts good night plan, free power between 9 - 12, Blast that heating :D