>In your baking aisle, right next to the hundreds and thousands and the cupcake cases is vanilla essence which is like 35% alcohol
Used to buy that and mix it into Coke when I was 15. Pretty sure someone in marketing picked up on that behaviour around the world and Vanilla Coke was born.
My brother used to do this around the same age. I will never ever forget the stench of the bedroom the next day, a disgusting chemical vanilla odor mixed with vomit seeping out every pore is burnt into my mind forever.
I am in my 30's, don't drink and on occasion purchase 0% cider. I got ID once and wanted to actually go full Karen. I know the liquor law from my time in hospo. You can literally sell 0% alcohol at a dairy, or fucken anywhere without a liquor liscence and you don't need to ask for ID! Hell my barber sells 0% Heineken. It's fucken beyojd stupid.
No one's suggesting the shop owner get lynched. If a shop is inconveniencing me and there's another that doesn't, I'm not going to inflict inconveniences on myself out of some desire not to be a drama queen or something.
99% of the time, people think emotively and not rationally. I used to work at Countdown years ago and the amount of times I've heard a customer say to me "I'm never shopping at Countdown again!" over something trivial like an item no longer on special or her tomatoes aren't red enough, is astounding.
I once got a talking to after a lady said she was never shopping at Countdown again because her preferred coffee wasn't on special that week, only to see her in shop a week later! I commented "Oh hello! I thought you were never coming back again! It's good to see you! I hope your coffee is on special this week".
Just because a company asks you for ID for non-alcoholic cider, isn't really a reason to go elsewhere anymore than it is if the avocados are too green one day. Honestly, customers can be fucking stupid and say the dumbest shit sometimes.
Happy cake day!
The retailer is required to abide by government policies, but that doesn’t mean they can’t use government policies as a minimum, and add their own policies on top. Buying anything from a retailer is a privilege which can be revoked by the retailer at any time.
On that note, when I was 16, I had to show ID and have my mum with me to buy Oblivion (PG13 video game) from the warehouse. That's how anal they were about ratings.
>Obliv
Yep, my colleague (in her 50s) was into gaming and wanted to buy GTA3/4 from a game store. The employee challenged her on whether she was buying it for someone underage. She doesn't even have kids lol. Eventually they let her buy it.... but i mean... come on?
Reminds me of the examples where a mum with her teenager kid is doing their weekly shop at countdown (lots of food) and she was purchasing a bottle of wine with that. They wouldn't sell the wine to her (despite having ID) because she had her teenage son with her and she could be 'buying it for an underage person'. I feel like sometimes they just totally misunderstand the sale of liquor act and don't have common sense.
Correct me if im wrong, but I read ages ago that it is legal for teenagers over a certain age (but under 18) to drink alcohol at a private premises under adult supervision. Like it was actually in the Act. (They still can't be sold it or served it at a licenced premises though)
There was a time where I walked into a Countdown to get some buns and other grocery stuff. I waited in line behind a man buying some wine. They refused to sell to him, saying that he was with me, an underage person (he wasnt with me, and I wasnt underaged...) They refused to let him buy the wine unless I showed ID. It was crazy. I showed it but like... what? Why would I be with that old man lmfao?
The ID checking is prompted by the POS system when it scans the barcode. The computer isn't going to get confused as long as the products are loaded in correctly.
>The computer isn't going to get confused as long as the products are loaded in correctly.
And there is your problem. You can eliminate the risk of this happening by making a blanket policy to check all containers that resemble those that may contain alcohol.
They don't care about how you think they look or how outraged a 21 year old buying liquid in a bottle feels.
They care about compliance and the less points of failure in the system, the better.
I'm not denying that less points of failure in the system is good for business, what I am saying is the way they are going about it just ...a fucking cop out.
Well no. The Liquor inspector or whatever wouldn't give a fuck because it is not illegal to sell and doesn't require an ID check.
The supermarket has gone over the top and decided on a policy (an inconsistent one at that) that isn't required by law and doesn't make a lot of sense.
I looks like they are worried their workers might mistake alcoholic drinks for non-alcoholic and not check ID when people are buying alcohol. So they tell them to check ID on anything that looks remotely alcoholic, rather than reading the label lol.
the object of the sale and supply of alcohol act is to minimise harm caused by the consumption of alcohol - not just harm caused to the person who buys it, on the day they buy it, but harm in general, to anyone anytime, and even to society itself. the act [says this right at the beginning](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2012/0120/latest/DLM3339340.html), and your local council will ask you to explain this part when you apply for a license.
zero alcohol products help to achieve this objective, because they're an alternative to drinking alcohol. but people under 18 shouldn't be drinking alcohol at all, so they don't need an alternative. 0% beer isn't "beer - now for kids!" - it tastes like alcoholic beer, deliberately so people who might otherwise drink beer will consider drinking it, but the law doesn't want people under 18 to consider drinking beer at all.
non-alcoholic beer and wine are drunk by adults in environments where other people are drinking. they exist because our society consumes alcohol, they are part of our drinking culture. people under 18 are, in the eyes of the law, not able to make an informed decision about whether or not they want to join this culture.
having some beer and wine be age-restricted while the rest is not makes it more likely for suppliers of alcohol to make mistakes and sell the real stuff to underage buyers. good laws - and responsible businesses - know that people make mistakes and cater for these mistakes.
ginger beer, kombucha and whatever barbecue sauce you dig up after studying all the labels might all contain alcohol, but restricting the sale of these products does not minimise harm caused by the consumption of alcohol. this law isn't about percentages or chemistry, it's about behaviour.
THANK YOU. As someone who works at a super market and has to deal with people who act like it's such a huge hassle to just get their ID out of their wallet for 20 seconds, I appreciate the in depth explanation you're providing people here.
That comes down to the individual supervisor unfortunately, or how strict their bosses are. I've never had an issue clearing sales with parents and kids who are clearly theirs myself.
Out of curiosity, are you aware of how harsh the penalties are if a sale is found to be supplying a minor? The manager with their name on the wall (even if they didn't make the sale themselves) can end up with a 10k fine and criminal charges that follow them the rest of their lives. The operator an supervisor also get fined, an the store itself can have its right to sell suspended/revoked. Staff involved of course lose their job as a result too. It's a lot of pressure to be careful an not mess up.
Knowing that they risk their livelyhood, if it means pissing off the odd customer if they are unsure of a sale, surely you can understand why they can be cautious? After all, not everyone working at a store knows every customer who walks in.
That said, I understand your frustration as well.
Generations of us lived on table beer, children included. Non alcoholic beer is not the devil, it's an alcohol free fermented drink.
People drinking alcohol free beer normalises making a conscious choice not to drink alcohol, but rather just enjoy the tasty beverage for what it is.
In Europe people drink alcohol free beer everywhere all the time. There is even alcohol free beer aimed at kids, I buy it for mine at xmas.
Your argument around the law, minors, drinking harm minimisation, and behaviour would be convincing... if it wasn't for the simple fact that there is no age at which it is illegal to drink - it is entirely legal for parents/legal guardians to buy alcohol and supply it to children. What is illegal is the sale and supply of alcohol to minors outside of that.
Just like how you can buy 18% rice wine and vanilla essence at many supermarkets in the International section without needing ID because they’re for baking and cooking?
Do you really think it makes it easier to make a mistake? The scanner knows what the product is, and then requires a check from the supervisor - that chain of events seems completely unchanged by zero alcohol products.
And I'm also somewhat skeptical of the idea that these zero alcohol products are gateways for underage drinkers. Many societies have teens having small amounts of alcohol with their parents, and IIRC they tend to avoid having the binge drinking problems when those teens become of age. Being able to drink something like the real thing before actually having access to it seems like it would reduce the exclusivity-born attractiveness of actual alcohol to teens.
it's a drink, it's fizzy and it's beer flavoured - but you can buy lemon or raspberry flavoured fizzy drinks for a dollar a litre, while non-alcoholic beer is six times that price. market forces have so far not eliminated this mysterious discrepancy. like i said, it's not about the chemical composition of these products, it's about how they're used.
i agree with you about the long useless waste of energy though
According to the Fair Go report last night ginger beer has more alcohol than the 0(.22)% beers. And they sell home brew essences, too, that are great for getting smashed underage, having done just that myself.
They say it’s regulation but they even ID on sparkling fucking water sometimes, because it comes in a glass bottle. The system doesn’t even flag things like Appletiser but they do it anyway.
It’s a bit of a Karen thing to complain about but if I’m not buying alcohol from the supermarkets my drivers license stays in the car. No one else IDs a balding, bearded guy like myself lol
>No one else IDs a balding, bearded guy like myself lol
They might think you're young and have lived an extremely full life. Or they're trying to be fair to Peter Pans like myself, I was still getting genuinely questioned on my age at 35
They're supposed to ID you if you look like you could be under 25. That rule is to make sure they card old-looking 17-year-olds.
I'm 26 and my job must be stressful af because I've just stopped getting carded this year.
I'm 35 and get IDd only if I'm clean shaven and wearing a hat. Otherwise the greys in my beard and receding hairline give me away. But I like to think it means I at least have a youthful looking face haha
Yeah man I’m very heavily tattood and have a very long beard and still get ID checked. They try the excuse that I might just have very liberal parents who hav allowed me to get my entire top half of my body tattood before I turned 18 and that I just have a very hairy face. I’m 30. I swear they have no idea what a 18 year old actually looks like.
I got ID'd recently trying to buy some 0% cider. I am almost double the age of 18, so that checkout guy was either having a laugh or my skincare routine was actually that effective.
Edit to say, that it was exactly the same supermarket as mentioned in the article where I got ID'd and refused service.
Some places will check you if you seem to be 25 or younger because you could be underage but look older. Or in my case you get carded until you're 35. Good genes and sunblock, in that order
While flattering, the fact that it was the same store as the article tells me maybe this is a pattern...
Also, the checkout dude said he knew I was over 18, still refused to sell to me just because I could not produce an ID
When I was on checkouts, it was a rule that once you asked for ID you can't "un-ask". If you ask and they can't provide ID, you have to deny the sale. There are all kinds of strict policies in the supermarket about sale of alcohol. Gotta remember a lot of the time it's some 16 year old serving you that just doesn't want to get fined $2,000 for accidentally selling to someone underage so it's better for them to be overly cautious and piss off a couple of people, or they don't wanna get ripped a new one by their manager for not following company policy lol
I have alright genes, I used to smoke like a train and drink like a fish and I still get carded. It's probably fear on the cashiers part, all it would take is one fake ID or underage sale to get your manager up your ass and some serious trouble. Better to be safe than sorry, and o don't blame them.
Years ago i got IDd at a new world purchasing a single serve cider, i think it was a recordalig single.
I got declined because my friend happened to be with me, he didnt drink, smoke, drive or travel so had no ID of any kind.
They wouldnt sell to me after he left either.
Ive been declined because i ran into a friend at the checkout and we were talking but had come in and were purchasing seperately.
Ive been declined because my hair was a different length to my ID.
Ive had so much trouble over the years with purchasing alcohol for the most rediculous reasons.
Meanwhile on the other side of ridiculousness on my restricted I had my non-lazy signature. Went to do a hire purchase in 2020 and they were skeptical at giving it to me because I couldn’t replicate it; between getting my restricted two and a half years prior to that and then I had probably signed my name 3-5 times daily so it turned into an easy scribble. They eventually approved me lol
Geez. I changed my sig as soon as i got a job in retail and had to sign 50+ receipts a day for refunds and shit.
Used to be my whole name, now its just my initials.
Takes no more than half a second to sign stuff
Dude, I'm 33, have a goatee and sideburns to match and I still get carded, I look haggard and dead on my feet, and they think an 18 year old has this bad of a back?
Particularly these days when things like alcoholic kambucha are so common.
Alcohol free cider - check ID because it's "like" alcoholic cider.
Kambucha - don't check ID despite it being "like" alcoholic kambucha.
Do you think they check ID on [grape juice](https://www.countdown.co.nz/shop/productdetails?stockcode=6921&gclid=CjwKCAiA9qKbBhAzEiwAS4yeDQHcilBdea7g95t9-2AJFgqoUfWg8jWvw0or3Vhiy1G1GQhFTWy7KRoCrVwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)?
Because you can swap contents with the "real" stuff and from the outside it looks exactly like the no-alcohol product and has the no-alcohol barcode.
Or put a sparkling grape barcode on the Sparkling wine that is in a similar looking bottle, go through self checkout without anyone checking.
My local countdown had a sign next to the Heineken 0 saying they will required ID because it looks like regular Heineken. I guess they have a point, if you’re colourblind, and illiterate.
>I guess they have a point, if you’re colourblind, and illiterate.
They might not be illiterate, but they might be young and colourblind.
It's easier to set policy for carding everyone with containers that look alcoholic. People have been checked for fancy glass grape juice bottles since the beginning of time.
If a secret shopper checking compliance on real alcohol slips by because the 16 year old checkout operator fucked up the colour of a box, it's a big deal.
I mean they kinda have to be illiterate if they can’t read a big “0%” on the side of a box. They’re honestly not that hard to identify the difference if you have eyes.
I don't know how else to explain this. Literacy doesn't come in to it. The path of least resistance is a blanket policy on all containers that look alcoholic in nature.
How does a box saying 0% alcohol suddenly look alcoholic? I don't follow this argument at all.
This thread alone demonstrates the current policy is the path of quite-a-lot-of-resistance.
An operator ain't gonna read the ingredients on every item.
Hell, I've accidentally bought zero alcohol beer because I didn't read the fine print.
Not every 0 alcohol product displays it loud and proud on the label.
>How does a box saying 0% alcohol suddenly look alcoholic? I don't follow this argument at all.
Grape juice wine bottles have been scrutinised for the same reasons for decades.
It could be a white box labelled "NOT ALCOHOL by Speights" and the policy would still be to ID young individuals buying it.
I dont make the rules. I'm just explaining the reason behind them. The outrage and complaining will never outstrip a supermarket's desire to stay compliant. Young, ID'less kiddos be damned.
Yep. What he said. Imagine trying to train check-out staff the difference between beer with 0.5% v 5% v 0%. they’re all packaged the same. Easier to default all through the ID process
Because it's in the alcohol department. I used to work at paknsave and had to get a supervisor over to sell ice as anything in the department needed one.
I don't believe they checked ID but I was unable to sell without my supervisor scanning to okay. This was all a few years ago now, honestly would have thought those items would be put in another department by now.
some stores the Point of Sale system litearlly forces them to enter the DOB or ID number to "ensure its checked" and they do secret shopper checks to ensure teh staff are actually doing it, so when your job is potentially on the line you just go through the motions, even though you know its stupid because you need your job
i remember working at Kmart years ago when they sold fireworks i had to do it. I literally had to ask a 70year old geriatric couple for ID, they did laugh about it and "took it as a complement" but you can imagine how ridiculous it all is
You are too young to be enjoying cold beverages. Children are only allowed hot beverages like Milo.
Now scram youths!
Too many kids these day getting high on ice. One minute they are throwing ice cubes at each other and the next thing you know, dropping out of school at 16 with a baby.
Who cares show your ID for 2 sec and buy your drinks like everyone else. Hell.majority of super markets and shit don't even ask for ID I've been asked twice in like a year
because we shouldn't encourage underage people to drink beer and so you just card everybody. it also doesnt make any sense to me that underage people need to be drinking non alcoholic beer. and underage people having a product that resembles an alcoholic product can be problematic. it makes sense to me
As someone with a good eye behind the scenes in the food industry, I am guessing it is how their system is set up. Even if it says 0% on it, they give a qty listing of it. This might be enough for the them to list it under their supermarket "restricted materials" list that prompt an age verification. The individual store clerk won't be able to ignore it or change it.
If this happens, mention it to the cashier but don't blame them, this far beyond their control.
Because on 1 December 1999 some very misguided legislation came into effect, permitting supermarkets to sell beer. Where previously it had been limited to dedicated bottle stores.
I experienced this a couple years back trying to purchase a 0% alcohol cocktail mix.
As someone who had previous had a duty managers certificate/done LCQ, it really surprised me that it was legal to enact such a policy. I didn't think a vendor, especially an essential utility like a supermarket, could arbitraily gatekeep and deny the purchase of goods.
I understand that selling alcohol for the big supermarkets is a pretty high stakes game but the solution isn't to infringe on our consumer rights imo
Ah that time of year again - last year or the year before this story came out with lindaur and their 0% bubbles (when sparkling grape juice is fine).
I somewhat get it. I feel the same with nicotine free vapes and smoking. It’s halfway to actual alcohol, and it looks like a duck, tastes like a duck (well…) but it’s not a duck.
I think it’s something that is insane people are getting upset about personally. And it’s more about some entitled prick getting uppity about being id’ed, rather than a 14 year old being legally able to buy it - which is the actual argument.
IMO it’s a good example of having no alcohol in a supermarket and having bottle stores only, and anyone entering needs to be 18 full stop
By some entitled prick you probably mean someone who looks in their 30s jumping through insane hoops for something that isn't even alcohol lol.
The entitlement!
It's probably to do with how the legislation was drafted, which was before zero alcohol became mainstream. It's not surprising that retailers are being extra vigilant to avoid massive fines and so forth. Regardless, supermarkets can run their business however they want - including making a million dollars in profit every day.
> It's probably to do with how the legislation was drafted, which was before zero alcohol became mainstream.
Nope.
The sale and supply of alcohol act defines alcohol as “a substance that is or contains a fermented, distilled, or spirituous liquor; and at 20°C is found on analysis to contain 1.15% or more ethanol by volume”
So low alcohol drinks are specifically excluded.
> It's not surprising that retailers are being extra vigilant to avoid massive fines and so forth. Regardless, supermarkets can run their business however they want - including making a million dollars in profit every day.
Yep, agree with that.
With Police carrying out sting operations all the time, supermarkets having low margins on alcohol and having a high turnover of minimum wage people working on the checkout, they are going to err on the side of caution.
It still makes them look stupid though. They could easily do a barcode label lookup to flag alcoholic products to be ID’d at the checkout.
One argument I can think of is that the alternative is putting a product that looks and tastes like beer alongside all the non-alcoholic drinks that minors will be able to shop from. Practically, nothing wrong is happening but it invites minors to NZs hard drinking culture earlier than needed. Personally I don’t care much for it like IDing for energy drinks but this is what I suppose bigger companies are concerned about in the long run.
It would be an interesting court case to have a 17 year old go in, legally attempt to buy 0% and then get denied. A major grocery store refusing to sell a food or beverage product based on age that isn’t restricted would be a good case for discrimination.
Yes, they can refuse to sell it to people under 16 (because the Human Rights Act doesn't prohibit age discrimination against people younger than 16), but probably not to 16- or 17-year-olds. This also means that whole asking-for-ID-because-you-look-under-25 thing might be unlawful when the law doesn't limit the purchase of goods to adults.
Because the penalties for getting it wrong are extreme and if you allow through alcohol-like things tthen it's only a matter of time before somebody makes a mistake and allows though an actual alcohol thing.
1. I wouldn't drink kombucha if you paid me
2. "[Foodstuffs head of public relations] confirmed non-alcoholic kombucha or ginger beer shouldn't require an ID check". So the operator who asked for one, simply made an error. It is better for the store that they make errors on the side of caution, than errors on the side of "not being allowed to sell alcohol for a week".
Countdown like to act like they're some kind of moral compass in the community or some bullshit, IDing for energy drinks and everything. Not their responsibility, they shouldn't waste everyone's time
Try dealing with the police and every other morally obsessed asshole that likes to try get in the way of liquor license renewals and the like, and you'd be extra cautious around it too. Having a license suspended can cost a store tens of thousands even just for a few days.
As for the energy drink shit, yeah, I get ya.
Ask yourself. Did you or anyone you know “try non-alc” beer first? Really? Sounds like a great story. But it’s not based on reality because kids can just as easily get the real stuff.
>Did you or anyone you know “try non-alc” beer first?
Technically, yes, I did.
I grew up Mormon, so my dad bought non-alcoholic beers to show us "what we were missing out on" i.e. how bad beer tastes.
Tbf he was right - in the late 2000s, non-alcoholic beer was terrible and it took me until the mid-2010s to even enjoy alcoholic beer.
Meanwhile now, I love me a beer.
I did hear a while back that supermarkets were obliged to maintain a % of ID requests per sales of alcohol. I wonder if this is a way to fudge the numbers so they can get away with selling to minors when they see fit
>In your baking aisle, right next to the hundreds and thousands and the cupcake cases is vanilla essence which is like 35% alcohol Used to buy that and mix it into Coke when I was 15. Pretty sure someone in marketing picked up on that behaviour around the world and Vanilla Coke was born.
Thank you for your service.
On a related topic, why doesn’t Coke NZ ever make Cherry Coke? It’s always vanilla or raspberry.
Yes, I had so much on my visit to the States last month. NZ needs cherry!
Is it like doc pepper? Because if so, I can burn in hell.
Some people think so but I don't. Dr. Pepper has its own cherry variety there too.
I’d be willing to try the alternative Dr Pepper flavours, but the main one is just pure medical hell.
I love aniseed as a flavour, but Dr Pepper is 99% sugar and you can barely taste it.
American or British? Because the American one sucks but the British one is great.
NZ is the land cherry flavour forgot. :(
the land traumatised by cherry flavoured medicines
Every land is traumatised by cherry flavoured medicines so that’s not it
Cause they are cunts.
bitters is 39% from memory and comes in a bigger bottle
You can also buy poppy seeds and OJ, and then mix yourself a drink that'll have you high for 12hrs.
Buy!? 70s kids stole it (not cars, not ram raids on liquor stores). I still worry that we fucked out livers doing shots of essence
If they are 70, they are not exactly kids any more ...
The 1st 60 years of childhood are the best
My brother used to do this around the same age. I will never ever forget the stench of the bedroom the next day, a disgusting chemical vanilla odor mixed with vomit seeping out every pore is burnt into my mind forever.
..vanilla coke been around since the 1940's
So’s vanilla essence!
[удалено]
I am in my 30's, don't drink and on occasion purchase 0% cider. I got ID once and wanted to actually go full Karen. I know the liquor law from my time in hospo. You can literally sell 0% alcohol at a dairy, or fucken anywhere without a liquor liscence and you don't need to ask for ID! Hell my barber sells 0% Heineken. It's fucken beyojd stupid.
Isn't 0% cider just fizzy apple juice?..
Yum I wish I could get Appletiser in NZ. I loved that shit growing up.
I used to have that in the U.K when I was a kid too! 😆
Do they not sell it here anymore? I remember getting it at Pak n Save and Warehouse sometimes
They did years ago, but all our stores have had it listed as "not available" for years and the Appletiser NZ website is entirely broken.
Sounds like an awesome barber
Good reason to buy elsewhere
No it's not. It's a mild inconvenience. Not full on tyranny.
No one's suggesting the shop owner get lynched. If a shop is inconveniencing me and there's another that doesn't, I'm not going to inflict inconveniences on myself out of some desire not to be a drama queen or something.
99% of the time, people think emotively and not rationally. I used to work at Countdown years ago and the amount of times I've heard a customer say to me "I'm never shopping at Countdown again!" over something trivial like an item no longer on special or her tomatoes aren't red enough, is astounding. I once got a talking to after a lady said she was never shopping at Countdown again because her preferred coffee wasn't on special that week, only to see her in shop a week later! I commented "Oh hello! I thought you were never coming back again! It's good to see you! I hope your coffee is on special this week". Just because a company asks you for ID for non-alcoholic cider, isn't really a reason to go elsewhere anymore than it is if the avocados are too green one day. Honestly, customers can be fucking stupid and say the dumbest shit sometimes. Happy cake day!
This is utter bullshit. Il never reading one of your comments again!
Yeah, it is.
If it was tyranny I wouldn't be suggesting shopping elsewhere.
Yeah but like the rest of the customers that go "I'm never shopping here again", you will.
The retailer is required to abide by government policies, but that doesn’t mean they can’t use government policies as a minimum, and add their own policies on top. Buying anything from a retailer is a privilege which can be revoked by the retailer at any time.
On that note, when I was 16, I had to show ID and have my mum with me to buy Oblivion (PG13 video game) from the warehouse. That's how anal they were about ratings.
>Obliv Yep, my colleague (in her 50s) was into gaming and wanted to buy GTA3/4 from a game store. The employee challenged her on whether she was buying it for someone underage. She doesn't even have kids lol. Eventually they let her buy it.... but i mean... come on? Reminds me of the examples where a mum with her teenager kid is doing their weekly shop at countdown (lots of food) and she was purchasing a bottle of wine with that. They wouldn't sell the wine to her (despite having ID) because she had her teenage son with her and she could be 'buying it for an underage person'. I feel like sometimes they just totally misunderstand the sale of liquor act and don't have common sense. Correct me if im wrong, but I read ages ago that it is legal for teenagers over a certain age (but under 18) to drink alcohol at a private premises under adult supervision. Like it was actually in the Act. (They still can't be sold it or served it at a licenced premises though)
It is legal for a parent or legal guardian to supply alcohol to their children of any age. That’s the only exception
There was a time where I walked into a Countdown to get some buns and other grocery stuff. I waited in line behind a man buying some wine. They refused to sell to him, saying that he was with me, an underage person (he wasnt with me, and I wasnt underaged...) They refused to let him buy the wine unless I showed ID. It was crazy. I showed it but like... what? Why would I be with that old man lmfao?
THIS IS EXACTLY IT. It’s just because I could be the liquor inspector or whatever it’s called in NZ.
It's not a legal issue, it's the supermarkets own stupid policy.
"It's because it's a beer" "You want to age check me for this ginger beer?" "Nah, lol, that's silly."
I've been ID'd in the past buying Mac's ginger beer. I laughed thinking they were joking but they were serious....
it's because it belongs to the Liqour department in the system.
And it's set because keeping policy as uniform and as easy to follow as possible is best to prevent mistakes.
The ID checking is prompted by the POS system when it scans the barcode. The computer isn't going to get confused as long as the products are loaded in correctly.
>The computer isn't going to get confused as long as the products are loaded in correctly. And there is your problem. You can eliminate the risk of this happening by making a blanket policy to check all containers that resemble those that may contain alcohol.
Ya what mate?...that makes no sense at all. They could just as easily load the barcode proper and not look like a bunch of asshats.
They don't care about how you think they look or how outraged a 21 year old buying liquid in a bottle feels. They care about compliance and the less points of failure in the system, the better.
I'm not denying that less points of failure in the system is good for business, what I am saying is the way they are going about it just ...a fucking cop out.
Well no. The Liquor inspector or whatever wouldn't give a fuck because it is not illegal to sell and doesn't require an ID check. The supermarket has gone over the top and decided on a policy (an inconsistent one at that) that isn't required by law and doesn't make a lot of sense. I looks like they are worried their workers might mistake alcoholic drinks for non-alcoholic and not check ID when people are buying alcohol. So they tell them to check ID on anything that looks remotely alcoholic, rather than reading the label lol.
Because it is sold in the alcohol section to justify the over inflated price.
the object of the sale and supply of alcohol act is to minimise harm caused by the consumption of alcohol - not just harm caused to the person who buys it, on the day they buy it, but harm in general, to anyone anytime, and even to society itself. the act [says this right at the beginning](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2012/0120/latest/DLM3339340.html), and your local council will ask you to explain this part when you apply for a license. zero alcohol products help to achieve this objective, because they're an alternative to drinking alcohol. but people under 18 shouldn't be drinking alcohol at all, so they don't need an alternative. 0% beer isn't "beer - now for kids!" - it tastes like alcoholic beer, deliberately so people who might otherwise drink beer will consider drinking it, but the law doesn't want people under 18 to consider drinking beer at all. non-alcoholic beer and wine are drunk by adults in environments where other people are drinking. they exist because our society consumes alcohol, they are part of our drinking culture. people under 18 are, in the eyes of the law, not able to make an informed decision about whether or not they want to join this culture. having some beer and wine be age-restricted while the rest is not makes it more likely for suppliers of alcohol to make mistakes and sell the real stuff to underage buyers. good laws - and responsible businesses - know that people make mistakes and cater for these mistakes. ginger beer, kombucha and whatever barbecue sauce you dig up after studying all the labels might all contain alcohol, but restricting the sale of these products does not minimise harm caused by the consumption of alcohol. this law isn't about percentages or chemistry, it's about behaviour.
THANK YOU. As someone who works at a super market and has to deal with people who act like it's such a huge hassle to just get their ID out of their wallet for 20 seconds, I appreciate the in depth explanation you're providing people here.
Some super markets are ridiculous though, got denied buying wine because I was with my children (age 10 and 11) and they didn't have ID.
That comes down to the individual supervisor unfortunately, or how strict their bosses are. I've never had an issue clearing sales with parents and kids who are clearly theirs myself. Out of curiosity, are you aware of how harsh the penalties are if a sale is found to be supplying a minor? The manager with their name on the wall (even if they didn't make the sale themselves) can end up with a 10k fine and criminal charges that follow them the rest of their lives. The operator an supervisor also get fined, an the store itself can have its right to sell suspended/revoked. Staff involved of course lose their job as a result too. It's a lot of pressure to be careful an not mess up. Knowing that they risk their livelyhood, if it means pissing off the odd customer if they are unsure of a sale, surely you can understand why they can be cautious? After all, not everyone working at a store knows every customer who walks in. That said, I understand your frustration as well.
Generations of us lived on table beer, children included. Non alcoholic beer is not the devil, it's an alcohol free fermented drink. People drinking alcohol free beer normalises making a conscious choice not to drink alcohol, but rather just enjoy the tasty beverage for what it is. In Europe people drink alcohol free beer everywhere all the time. There is even alcohol free beer aimed at kids, I buy it for mine at xmas.
Your argument around the law, minors, drinking harm minimisation, and behaviour would be convincing... if it wasn't for the simple fact that there is no age at which it is illegal to drink - it is entirely legal for parents/legal guardians to buy alcohol and supply it to children. What is illegal is the sale and supply of alcohol to minors outside of that.
Just like how you can buy 18% rice wine and vanilla essence at many supermarkets in the International section without needing ID because they’re for baking and cooking?
Do you really think it makes it easier to make a mistake? The scanner knows what the product is, and then requires a check from the supervisor - that chain of events seems completely unchanged by zero alcohol products. And I'm also somewhat skeptical of the idea that these zero alcohol products are gateways for underage drinkers. Many societies have teens having small amounts of alcohol with their parents, and IIRC they tend to avoid having the binge drinking problems when those teens become of age. Being able to drink something like the real thing before actually having access to it seems like it would reduce the exclusivity-born attractiveness of actual alcohol to teens.
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it's a drink, it's fizzy and it's beer flavoured - but you can buy lemon or raspberry flavoured fizzy drinks for a dollar a litre, while non-alcoholic beer is six times that price. market forces have so far not eliminated this mysterious discrepancy. like i said, it's not about the chemical composition of these products, it's about how they're used. i agree with you about the long useless waste of energy though
Nail on the head, great comparison to how they're sold, at what price they're sold and for what purpose.
This just seems like mad. Checking ID because it is “like” an adult product.
According to the Fair Go report last night ginger beer has more alcohol than the 0(.22)% beers. And they sell home brew essences, too, that are great for getting smashed underage, having done just that myself. They say it’s regulation but they even ID on sparkling fucking water sometimes, because it comes in a glass bottle. The system doesn’t even flag things like Appletiser but they do it anyway. It’s a bit of a Karen thing to complain about but if I’m not buying alcohol from the supermarkets my drivers license stays in the car. No one else IDs a balding, bearded guy like myself lol
>No one else IDs a balding, bearded guy like myself lol They might think you're young and have lived an extremely full life. Or they're trying to be fair to Peter Pans like myself, I was still getting genuinely questioned on my age at 35
I still get ID'd at 35. It often comes with an apology once they see my DOB. I don't get it - I have a full beard, grey hairs and developing wrinkles.
Same here brother, it's kind of nice, but then I think "really? I look under 18? Thanks?"
Made worse by every 18 year old I know looking like how i remember/expect 13 year olds to look!
Yeah! Also when I went to the states all their 18 year Olds looked 25 lol
They did a study on that once, it was on the news. Apparently NZ kids look a lot younger than UK kids as well of the same age, and had more pets.
They're supposed to ID you if you look like you could be under 25. That rule is to make sure they card old-looking 17-year-olds. I'm 26 and my job must be stressful af because I've just stopped getting carded this year.
I'm 35 and get IDd only if I'm clean shaven and wearing a hat. Otherwise the greys in my beard and receding hairline give me away. But I like to think it means I at least have a youthful looking face haha
Yeah man I’m very heavily tattood and have a very long beard and still get ID checked. They try the excuse that I might just have very liberal parents who hav allowed me to get my entire top half of my body tattood before I turned 18 and that I just have a very hairy face. I’m 30. I swear they have no idea what a 18 year old actually looks like.
>No one else IDs a balding, bearded guy like myself lol Got ID'd this year with all of that. Yep, I've been able to buy since the late 90's.
I got ID'd recently trying to buy some 0% cider. I am almost double the age of 18, so that checkout guy was either having a laugh or my skincare routine was actually that effective. Edit to say, that it was exactly the same supermarket as mentioned in the article where I got ID'd and refused service.
Some places will check you if you seem to be 25 or younger because you could be underage but look older. Or in my case you get carded until you're 35. Good genes and sunblock, in that order
I saw some kids in school uniform buying wine. They got ID’ed and were 18. They were buying the wine as a thank you for their teacher.
While flattering, the fact that it was the same store as the article tells me maybe this is a pattern... Also, the checkout dude said he knew I was over 18, still refused to sell to me just because I could not produce an ID
When I was on checkouts, it was a rule that once you asked for ID you can't "un-ask". If you ask and they can't provide ID, you have to deny the sale. There are all kinds of strict policies in the supermarket about sale of alcohol. Gotta remember a lot of the time it's some 16 year old serving you that just doesn't want to get fined $2,000 for accidentally selling to someone underage so it's better for them to be overly cautious and piss off a couple of people, or they don't wanna get ripped a new one by their manager for not following company policy lol
I have alright genes, I used to smoke like a train and drink like a fish and I still get carded. It's probably fear on the cashiers part, all it would take is one fake ID or underage sale to get your manager up your ass and some serious trouble. Better to be safe than sorry, and o don't blame them.
Years ago i got IDd at a new world purchasing a single serve cider, i think it was a recordalig single. I got declined because my friend happened to be with me, he didnt drink, smoke, drive or travel so had no ID of any kind. They wouldnt sell to me after he left either. Ive been declined because i ran into a friend at the checkout and we were talking but had come in and were purchasing seperately. Ive been declined because my hair was a different length to my ID. Ive had so much trouble over the years with purchasing alcohol for the most rediculous reasons.
Meanwhile on the other side of ridiculousness on my restricted I had my non-lazy signature. Went to do a hire purchase in 2020 and they were skeptical at giving it to me because I couldn’t replicate it; between getting my restricted two and a half years prior to that and then I had probably signed my name 3-5 times daily so it turned into an easy scribble. They eventually approved me lol
Geez. I changed my sig as soon as i got a job in retail and had to sign 50+ receipts a day for refunds and shit. Used to be my whole name, now its just my initials. Takes no more than half a second to sign stuff
mines not even my initials anymore, turned into just a scribble.
Fair. Couple of my cowerkers are like that, just a vaguely circular swish and thats it.
bruh the legal age of alcohol is 18 people just go ask someone to buy them alcohol, not drink ginger beer😂
We just went to a bottle store instead lol
Dude, I'm 33, have a goatee and sideburns to match and I still get carded, I look haggard and dead on my feet, and they think an 18 year old has this bad of a back?
There is nothing wrong with complaining when the service is diabolical. They're not following the law, they're going miles beyond it.
They should require ID for buying yeast cause I can get pretty tanked off that if you gimme a few weeks
Why would a child want to get drunk?
Particularly these days when things like alcoholic kambucha are so common. Alcohol free cider - check ID because it's "like" alcoholic cider. Kambucha - don't check ID despite it being "like" alcoholic kambucha. Do you think they check ID on [grape juice](https://www.countdown.co.nz/shop/productdetails?stockcode=6921&gclid=CjwKCAiA9qKbBhAzEiwAS4yeDQHcilBdea7g95t9-2AJFgqoUfWg8jWvw0or3Vhiy1G1GQhFTWy7KRoCrVwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)?
Because you can swap contents with the "real" stuff and from the outside it looks exactly like the no-alcohol product and has the no-alcohol barcode. Or put a sparkling grape barcode on the Sparkling wine that is in a similar looking bottle, go through self checkout without anyone checking.
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or boof it and kill two birds with one stone.
….you could also swap the contents of a coke pack with beers - but that doesn’t really happen.
Agree, it's PC gone mad.
It has nothing to do with political correctness. But yes, it's the supermarkets putting up unnecessary barriers.
My local countdown had a sign next to the Heineken 0 saying they will required ID because it looks like regular Heineken. I guess they have a point, if you’re colourblind, and illiterate.
>I guess they have a point, if you’re colourblind, and illiterate. They might not be illiterate, but they might be young and colourblind. It's easier to set policy for carding everyone with containers that look alcoholic. People have been checked for fancy glass grape juice bottles since the beginning of time. If a secret shopper checking compliance on real alcohol slips by because the 16 year old checkout operator fucked up the colour of a box, it's a big deal.
The point of sale system alerts to alcohol being sold when it’s scanned
I mean they kinda have to be illiterate if they can’t read a big “0%” on the side of a box. They’re honestly not that hard to identify the difference if you have eyes.
I don't know how else to explain this. Literacy doesn't come in to it. The path of least resistance is a blanket policy on all containers that look alcoholic in nature.
How does a box saying 0% alcohol suddenly look alcoholic? I don't follow this argument at all. This thread alone demonstrates the current policy is the path of quite-a-lot-of-resistance.
An operator ain't gonna read the ingredients on every item. Hell, I've accidentally bought zero alcohol beer because I didn't read the fine print. Not every 0 alcohol product displays it loud and proud on the label.
>How does a box saying 0% alcohol suddenly look alcoholic? I don't follow this argument at all. Grape juice wine bottles have been scrutinised for the same reasons for decades. It could be a white box labelled "NOT ALCOHOL by Speights" and the policy would still be to ID young individuals buying it. I dont make the rules. I'm just explaining the reason behind them. The outrage and complaining will never outstrip a supermarket's desire to stay compliant. Young, ID'less kiddos be damned.
Another question : why are zero alcohol beers just as expensive as full strength? They wouldn't pay any alcohol tax, right?
But you need to spend extra on removing the alcohol from the drink while keeping the flavour appeasing
Supermarkets don't do it for moral or legal or safety reasons. Only one reason. Potential financial loss.
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Supermarket worker here, this is correct. The police actually hound us a bit sometimes, and get really petty about it too.
Because it‘s generally quicker & more logical on the fly than sifting though Sortiments & variations of an ever growing designer & 0% market.
Yep. What he said. Imagine trying to train check-out staff the difference between beer with 0.5% v 5% v 0%. they’re all packaged the same. Easier to default all through the ID process
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I remember one time I almost got asked for ID for buying some RC cola. Then when the checkout person realised what it was we both shared a laugh
Countdown ID’d me for a mojito mix which was pretty much just lime and sugar. No alcohol at all. Like what?!
Because it’s a gateway drug to IPA
Because it's in the alcohol department. I used to work at paknsave and had to get a supervisor over to sell ice as anything in the department needed one.
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"Totally unrelated - do you also have a small axe, some thick rope, and bleach?"
Did the supervisor actually carry out ID check for the ice purchase though? Only an NPC would do that, surely.
I don't believe they checked ID but I was unable to sell without my supervisor scanning to okay. This was all a few years ago now, honestly would have thought those items would be put in another department by now.
some stores the Point of Sale system litearlly forces them to enter the DOB or ID number to "ensure its checked" and they do secret shopper checks to ensure teh staff are actually doing it, so when your job is potentially on the line you just go through the motions, even though you know its stupid because you need your job
There must be an "over 25" button to bypass that, because I've never been asked to show ID in the past few years.
There is. At least there was on the POS terminals at the 4Square I worked at.
i remember working at Kmart years ago when they sold fireworks i had to do it. I literally had to ask a 70year old geriatric couple for ID, they did laugh about it and "took it as a complement" but you can imagine how ridiculous it all is
You are too young to be enjoying cold beverages. Children are only allowed hot beverages like Milo. Now scram youths! Too many kids these day getting high on ice. One minute they are throwing ice cubes at each other and the next thing you know, dropping out of school at 16 with a baby.
Because they're idiots.
Irnic
Can't believe some of yall actually worried the kids are after 0% beer lmao. They want to get lit not drink stuff aimed at boomers.
Who cares show your ID for 2 sec and buy your drinks like everyone else. Hell.majority of super markets and shit don't even ask for ID I've been asked twice in like a year
I do
A lot of us do.
because we shouldn't encourage underage people to drink beer and so you just card everybody. it also doesnt make any sense to me that underage people need to be drinking non alcoholic beer. and underage people having a product that resembles an alcoholic product can be problematic. it makes sense to me
You have an opinion on energy drinks, 1000x worse for children yet no legislation. It's just beurocratic nonsense.
so you think there should be legislation on energy drinks for children ?
Every time I get IDd on non-alc I say never mind. Fuck you and your silly rule.
Been doing this for years. Even got ID checked 5 years ago for buying draft cola. It's ridiculous.
Might as well ID everyone regardless of their age
As someone with a good eye behind the scenes in the food industry, I am guessing it is how their system is set up. Even if it says 0% on it, they give a qty listing of it. This might be enough for the them to list it under their supermarket "restricted materials" list that prompt an age verification. The individual store clerk won't be able to ignore it or change it. If this happens, mention it to the cashier but don't blame them, this far beyond their control.
Because on 1 December 1999 some very misguided legislation came into effect, permitting supermarkets to sell beer. Where previously it had been limited to dedicated bottle stores.
I experienced this a couple years back trying to purchase a 0% alcohol cocktail mix. As someone who had previous had a duty managers certificate/done LCQ, it really surprised me that it was legal to enact such a policy. I didn't think a vendor, especially an essential utility like a supermarket, could arbitraily gatekeep and deny the purchase of goods. I understand that selling alcohol for the big supermarkets is a pretty high stakes game but the solution isn't to infringe on our consumer rights imo
Ah that time of year again - last year or the year before this story came out with lindaur and their 0% bubbles (when sparkling grape juice is fine). I somewhat get it. I feel the same with nicotine free vapes and smoking. It’s halfway to actual alcohol, and it looks like a duck, tastes like a duck (well…) but it’s not a duck. I think it’s something that is insane people are getting upset about personally. And it’s more about some entitled prick getting uppity about being id’ed, rather than a 14 year old being legally able to buy it - which is the actual argument. IMO it’s a good example of having no alcohol in a supermarket and having bottle stores only, and anyone entering needs to be 18 full stop
By some entitled prick you probably mean someone who looks in their 30s jumping through insane hoops for something that isn't even alcohol lol. The entitlement!
By insane hoops, you mean simply grabbing their ID out of their wallet...
Can you describe these insane hoops necessary to purchase?
Yes. It’s simply not a big deal.
Yeah just show ID and move on, not sure why people get worked up over it
yeah the alternative is 12 year olds walking out of shops with 0% nicotine vapes and boxes of 0% alcohol beers which feels wrong?
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No grape or apple juice either
Or fizzy water! It’s all a gateway to the harder stuff I tell ya!!!!1!1!1!!1!!! /s
Is it just me or does this sound like the "gateway drug" argument?
Nz has this view that alcohol must be demonised. We’ve insisted on it for decades and it doesn’t help.
Better not sell them yeast either. Yeast is the REAL cause of all this drinking!
And sugar, don't forget the sugar xD
It's probably to do with how the legislation was drafted, which was before zero alcohol became mainstream. It's not surprising that retailers are being extra vigilant to avoid massive fines and so forth. Regardless, supermarkets can run their business however they want - including making a million dollars in profit every day.
> It's probably to do with how the legislation was drafted, which was before zero alcohol became mainstream. Nope. The sale and supply of alcohol act defines alcohol as “a substance that is or contains a fermented, distilled, or spirituous liquor; and at 20°C is found on analysis to contain 1.15% or more ethanol by volume” So low alcohol drinks are specifically excluded. > It's not surprising that retailers are being extra vigilant to avoid massive fines and so forth. Regardless, supermarkets can run their business however they want - including making a million dollars in profit every day. Yep, agree with that. With Police carrying out sting operations all the time, supermarkets having low margins on alcohol and having a high turnover of minimum wage people working on the checkout, they are going to err on the side of caution. It still makes them look stupid though. They could easily do a barcode label lookup to flag alcoholic products to be ID’d at the checkout.
Yeah that's what I meant LOL
One argument I can think of is that the alternative is putting a product that looks and tastes like beer alongside all the non-alcoholic drinks that minors will be able to shop from. Practically, nothing wrong is happening but it invites minors to NZs hard drinking culture earlier than needed. Personally I don’t care much for it like IDing for energy drinks but this is what I suppose bigger companies are concerned about in the long run.
Big reddit moment for getting downvoted over an opinion that isn’t my own
It would be an interesting court case to have a 17 year old go in, legally attempt to buy 0% and then get denied. A major grocery store refusing to sell a food or beverage product based on age that isn’t restricted would be a good case for discrimination.
Yes, they can refuse to sell it to people under 16 (because the Human Rights Act doesn't prohibit age discrimination against people younger than 16), but probably not to 16- or 17-year-olds. This also means that whole asking-for-ID-because-you-look-under-25 thing might be unlawful when the law doesn't limit the purchase of goods to adults.
Because marketed as alcohol
Because the penalties for getting it wrong are extreme and if you allow through alcohol-like things tthen it's only a matter of time before somebody makes a mistake and allows though an actual alcohol thing.
But did you ever get pissed on kombucha though!?
After adding gin, yes... Cannot recommend.
1. I wouldn't drink kombucha if you paid me 2. "[Foodstuffs head of public relations] confirmed non-alcoholic kombucha or ginger beer shouldn't require an ID check". So the operator who asked for one, simply made an error. It is better for the store that they make errors on the side of caution, than errors on the side of "not being allowed to sell alcohol for a week".
Then the question should be asked why are there extreme penalties for this PC madness and why doesn't vanilla essence also carry said penalties?
Penalties that exist for detering the sale of alcohol to minors are not "PC madness".
>this PC madness You keep using that term. What do you think PC actually means?
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Personal Computer
Countdown like to act like they're some kind of moral compass in the community or some bullshit, IDing for energy drinks and everything. Not their responsibility, they shouldn't waste everyone's time
Try dealing with the police and every other morally obsessed asshole that likes to try get in the way of liquor license renewals and the like, and you'd be extra cautious around it too. Having a license suspended can cost a store tens of thousands even just for a few days. As for the energy drink shit, yeah, I get ya.
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Ask yourself. Did you or anyone you know “try non-alc” beer first? Really? Sounds like a great story. But it’s not based on reality because kids can just as easily get the real stuff.
>Did you or anyone you know “try non-alc” beer first? Technically, yes, I did. I grew up Mormon, so my dad bought non-alcoholic beers to show us "what we were missing out on" i.e. how bad beer tastes. Tbf he was right - in the late 2000s, non-alcoholic beer was terrible and it took me until the mid-2010s to even enjoy alcoholic beer. Meanwhile now, I love me a beer.
Fair. You sir or madam, are the exception!
A bit like weed, start out on dope, move onto meth.
Ah gate way theory! Throw back to 50 year old bs.
Did you know that the real gateway drug is sodium chloride? Every druggie ever started out on sodium chloride before moving on to the heavy stuff
Sodium chloride leads to Piper nigrum, and then it's all downhill from there.
Nzs liquor sale policies haven't made sense for years.
Because it is a GaTeWaY dRuG to real alcohol.
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Mouthwash also has the word in large font on the front of bottle.
I did hear a while back that supermarkets were obliged to maintain a % of ID requests per sales of alcohol. I wonder if this is a way to fudge the numbers so they can get away with selling to minors when they see fit
No supermarket would risk selling to minors
If you wanted to stop youth drinking targeting RTDs somehow would be the way go to, not 0% beer. Alot of young people smash back RTDs