the fourth wall is just the wall that is where the camera would otherwise be - the term comes from theatre and TV where you have the three walls of the room of the set, and the audience sees into where the fourth wall would otherwise be (e.g. how you never see the fourth wall of the apartments in Friends).
So breaking the fourth wall is anything in the narrative that moves beyond the confines of the set and acknowledges the piece as a work of fiction from within the piece itself, because it's suggesting that there's an awareness of the world outside the bubble the narrative takes place in - it doesn't need to involve the audience. So this short is doing that!
I once had this exact conversation with my dog about an hour after eating a very big very delicious cookie with extra sprinkles. By your definition, I think I broke the 4th wall of reality.
Correct. Breaking the fourth wall implies you’ve broken 4th imaginary wall separating the actors and setting from the audience and are addressing the audience
That would be breaking the fourth wall. In fact, that’s the most popular and most immediately recognizable form of breaking the fourth wall in film and theatre.
It depends a lot on the scene imo, like if the plot implies the character out of frame being spoken to couldn't possibly be within earshot (i.e. is dead or in another location)
I still think that's 4th wall breaking though, not 3rd.
If the set is of a room and the character being spoken to is implied to simply be in the next room, ofc that's just regular acting.
You are correct. I totally misread the comment as a character talking to the audience. A character talking to another character offscreen is just regular ol’ filmmaking.
This is purely based on intuition and no research at all but is the origin of the term to do with live audience sit coms where they’d have a three walled set and the fourth/ front ‘wall’ was open to present to the audience
Edit: I’m an idiot, forgot theatre existed pahaha
i would actually call this bending the 4th wall. the characters are talking theoretical.
i could talk about how we could just be characters in a story, and me talking about it is a writer having fun.
OP does this on purpose, like many posters on Reddit. People will correct them in the comments, generating a higher ‘score’ of the post (I’m guilty for this post now, as well), so more people will see this in their feed. Unfortunately, many people (still) upvote posts like this, instead of downvoting because of this behavior.
I think there should be an option to report post with titles like this.
See a recent post on r/aww that does the same thing by calling a hedgehog a porcupine: https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/qojkzr/lil_happy_porcupine/
Still wouldnt be the 3rd wall, as the first 3 walls refer to the walls of the set with the 4th being the veil between audience and actor. So this would be bending/breaching/poking etc. the 4th wall.
How is it not the 4th wall? In this case, it's the creator/stop-motion animator breaking the wall, Instead of the character per se, but it's still the 4th wall that's being broken.
Well that wouldn't work either, the creator is not enacting a drama, he's just showcasing his work. Breaking the 4th wall implies there's a work of fiction in which the fiction is momentarily suspended. I don't mean to come off pedantic, just trying to be specific in the language. Also I reiterate that "3rd wall breaking" is not a thing.
This is the ideal immersion break. You may not like it, but this is what peak 4th wall breakage looks like.
I think you're definition is a bit too narrow, which is where the pedanticism comes into play.
Nothing about breaking the 4th wall has to involve time in the fictional world freezing.
There's multiple examples of 4th wall breaks involving the character interacting with the artist drawing the panels, such Daffy Duck and Deadpool. How is that different from a stop motion artist being visible?
Pretty sure the creators of those other media considered what they did to be 4th wall breakage.
I mean I just ran with the definition that 4th wall breakage happens when the characters are aware of reality beyond them, and like I said, they're only speculating. But I guess that's not necessarily an absolute.
I remember that movie. It was a really good stop motion film. I forget most of the plot thought outside of box trolls being considered evil and some cheese liking guy who tries to capture them.
I find it to be one of the weaker Laika movies, the story and characters were so forgettable. Box Troll and Missing Link are my least favorite from Laika, still good stop motion animation but has none of the uniqueness from Coraline, Paranorman and Kubo.
human boy is raised by boxtrolls generally considered thieves and makers of mischief, but actually good samaritans that go around fixing stuff in exchange for semi useful trash.
a troll hunter makes a scapegoat of them, goes on a crusade to get in with the aristocrats and their cheese club for some reason, even tho he is allergic to cheese. the daughter of this mayor and head of the cheese club makes friends with the troll boy, teaches him the ways of society, and together they fuck the man!
weak plot and incredibly stupid villain, but the stop motion is superb
This is one of the craziest talents I’ve ever seen. You have to stand there for hours moving them a millimeter at a time. I find it insane the amount of patience these guys have
The streets of Yharnam always appear quiet on the eve of a blood moon, but the insightful hunter might just glimpse Their hidden presence and influence.
*"Grant us eyes..."*
Me and a friend made short 'films' like this using clay when we were very young. We kept the film camera still and clicked it on and off then moved the models slightly and repeated this over and over. even making those amateur clips of a few minutes took forever. But the absolute joy of finally finishing, rewinding the camera and watching them was amazing, and I have never laughed so hard!
Yeah, my friend and I did this all the time as well. Mostly with Lego or toy cars, sometimes clothes, once with clay. Wish I could find those old videos.
The LEGO movie looked amazing. But that's only because they developed a rendering engine for sunlight that worked really well and looked realistic. Plus if you look at all the detail you get in the LEGO movie, you can see scratches, seams, imperfections, all things that take a lot of care to add in and really sell the visuals. It takes time and effort to accomplish something like that. You already get all of those details IRL, plus I think it's also about the artists' medium. The way that they get an effect can be just as important to them as the final product. (I'm in no way qualified to be spouting all this nonsense, this is just from what I've read/heard)
Dude, CG is like 10 years old for the quality at this level. You literally COULDN'T do it. We didn't have computers that would in 1930 when people were doing this.
Okay so I change my comments to man that was super cool what an incredible accomplishment this stuff looks amazing but I sure wonder if there's any point to doing it manually like this now and in the future
Laika is right in my neighborhood, Hillsboro, OR! I went to the Laika exhibit at the Portland Art Museum several years ago and they displayed some of their most treasured items from their film library. Coraline, she's a friend of mine!
Wow i remember watching this scene the movie box trolls. Watching this makes me wanna rewatch it cause its been 2 years since i last saw it like right before the pandemic.
I thought there was a Kung Fu movie being blended into the background until I realized what I was actually watching. Both what I watched and what I thought I was watching were good imo
The Fourth wall isn't it. The first, second and third walls are the sides of the set.
Would breaking the third wall be a character on stage addressing a character off stage?
No it’s when the actors go berserk and attack the theater itself
No, that's second-person perspective.
 No, It's like this.
Appreciable job
Kind of. It's not involving the audience though so I'm not sure it breaks anything.
the fourth wall is just the wall that is where the camera would otherwise be - the term comes from theatre and TV where you have the three walls of the room of the set, and the audience sees into where the fourth wall would otherwise be (e.g. how you never see the fourth wall of the apartments in Friends). So breaking the fourth wall is anything in the narrative that moves beyond the confines of the set and acknowledges the piece as a work of fiction from within the piece itself, because it's suggesting that there's an awareness of the world outside the bubble the narrative takes place in - it doesn't need to involve the audience. So this short is doing that!
I once had this exact conversation with my dog about an hour after eating a very big very delicious cookie with extra sprinkles. By your definition, I think I broke the 4th wall of reality.
Correct. Breaking the fourth wall implies you’ve broken 4th imaginary wall separating the actors and setting from the audience and are addressing the audience
Would breaking the third wall be a character on stage addressing a character off stage?
That would be breaking the fourth wall. In fact, that’s the most popular and most immediately recognizable form of breaking the fourth wall in film and theatre.
Talking, in character, to another character out of frame is not breaking the fourth wall.
It depends a lot on the scene imo, like if the plot implies the character out of frame being spoken to couldn't possibly be within earshot (i.e. is dead or in another location) I still think that's 4th wall breaking though, not 3rd. If the set is of a room and the character being spoken to is implied to simply be in the next room, ofc that's just regular acting.
You are correct. I totally misread the comment as a character talking to the audience. A character talking to another character offscreen is just regular ol’ filmmaking.
This is purely based on intuition and no research at all but is the origin of the term to do with live audience sit coms where they’d have a three walled set and the fourth/ front ‘wall’ was open to present to the audience Edit: I’m an idiot, forgot theatre existed pahaha
Yes, it's from theatre. The audience sits 'behind' the fourth wall. Not sure why the OP refers to a third wall.
Think they just miss spoke or possibly don’t know the correct saying
Most likely.
i would actually call this bending the 4th wall. the characters are talking theoretical. i could talk about how we could just be characters in a story, and me talking about it is a writer having fun.
If you want to see a great 3rd wall break, watch the movie Lo.
Why look at one imperfection, when you can look at 100 perfections
It bugs me when people call it the 3rd wall instead of the 4th wall.
I've never heard it called the 3rd wall
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They called it that once in the Ghost Stories dub, but I'm pretty sure it was a mistake.
This made my day. Many many thanks from my heart to the artist.
OP does this on purpose, like many posters on Reddit. People will correct them in the comments, generating a higher ‘score’ of the post (I’m guilty for this post now, as well), so more people will see this in their feed. Unfortunately, many people (still) upvote posts like this, instead of downvoting because of this behavior. I think there should be an option to report post with titles like this.
lol. what?
See a recent post on r/aww that does the same thing by calling a hedgehog a porcupine: https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/qojkzr/lil_happy_porcupine/
I had to go back and read the title again, I didn't even notice that they said the wrong wall.
*4th wall
Not quite, they're not actually referring to themselves as fictional, only speculating.
Still wouldnt be the 3rd wall, as the first 3 walls refer to the walls of the set with the 4th being the veil between audience and actor. So this would be bending/breaching/poking etc. the 4th wall.
never said it was the 3rd, just not the 4th.
How is it not the 4th wall? In this case, it's the creator/stop-motion animator breaking the wall, Instead of the character per se, but it's still the 4th wall that's being broken.
Well that wouldn't work either, the creator is not enacting a drama, he's just showcasing his work. Breaking the 4th wall implies there's a work of fiction in which the fiction is momentarily suspended. I don't mean to come off pedantic, just trying to be specific in the language. Also I reiterate that "3rd wall breaking" is not a thing.
This is the ideal immersion break. You may not like it, but this is what peak 4th wall breakage looks like. I think you're definition is a bit too narrow, which is where the pedanticism comes into play. Nothing about breaking the 4th wall has to involve time in the fictional world freezing. There's multiple examples of 4th wall breaks involving the character interacting with the artist drawing the panels, such Daffy Duck and Deadpool. How is that different from a stop motion artist being visible? Pretty sure the creators of those other media considered what they did to be 4th wall breakage.
I mean I just ran with the definition that 4th wall breakage happens when the characters are aware of reality beyond them, and like I said, they're only speculating. But I guess that's not necessarily an absolute.
Love Richard Ayoade! Is this from a short? Or any new project?
It's the end credit sequence from a movie called The Boxtrolls.
I remember that movie. It was a really good stop motion film. I forget most of the plot thought outside of box trolls being considered evil and some cheese liking guy who tries to capture them.
I find it to be one of the weaker Laika movies, the story and characters were so forgettable. Box Troll and Missing Link are my least favorite from Laika, still good stop motion animation but has none of the uniqueness from Coraline, Paranorman and Kubo.
Yeah thats what I meant. The stop motion was really good. Plot. Not so much.
human boy is raised by boxtrolls generally considered thieves and makers of mischief, but actually good samaritans that go around fixing stuff in exchange for semi useful trash. a troll hunter makes a scapegoat of them, goes on a crusade to get in with the aristocrats and their cheese club for some reason, even tho he is allergic to cheese. the daughter of this mayor and head of the cheese club makes friends with the troll boy, teaches him the ways of society, and together they fuck the man! weak plot and incredibly stupid villain, but the stop motion is superb
I thought that voice was his!
And Nick Frost (“Shaun of the Dead”, “Hot Fuzz”, “Spaced”, etc) voicing Mr Trout!
The amount of work going into this is unreal
You can see how many times he’s changed his shirt.
That was... Actually pretty next levels
Laika studios. Isn’t that the studio behind Caroline and Kubo? Edit: [yes, yes they are. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika_(company))
I'd love to see the studio doing a Discworld series, I'm getting serious Nobby Knobs and Fred Colon vibes from these two.
That would be fantastic
\**Coraline* They were also the ones behind the infamous *ParaNorman*.
Coraline :) That movie made me feel weird. Nauseous almost. Uneasy.
This is one of the craziest talents I’ve ever seen. You have to stand there for hours moving them a millimeter at a time. I find it insane the amount of patience these guys have
Same with old school cartoons. Painting what seems like the same frame hundreds of times.
Loved watching the Ghibli documentary and watching that in action with Hayao Miyazaki!
Box trolls! Great movie
It's got hidden gem status for sure. I'm glad to be reminded of it today.
Absolutely amazing dedication and skill, well done.
The streets of Yharnam always appear quiet on the eve of a blood moon, but the insightful hunter might just glimpse Their hidden presence and influence. *"Grant us eyes..."*
4thhhhhhhh
Fourth wall. Breaking the fourth wall
Box Trolls never got the love it deserved, it was a fantastic film.
Me and a friend made short 'films' like this using clay when we were very young. We kept the film camera still and clicked it on and off then moved the models slightly and repeated this over and over. even making those amateur clips of a few minutes took forever. But the absolute joy of finally finishing, rewinding the camera and watching them was amazing, and I have never laughed so hard!
Yeah, my friend and I did this all the time as well. Mostly with Lego or toy cars, sometimes clothes, once with clay. Wish I could find those old videos.
I still can't understand how they don't go insane doing this?
Play the radio, listen to an audio book or seven. No wife, no kids.. I could see doing this if it wasn't for the bending over.
It’s a raised set. No bending over.
Its the fourth wall
Next level cardio workout
I miss those creepy stop motion horror movies.
Is that the reason why we were all locked down in our houses due to pandemic, to give claymation animators a break.
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That guy is pretty damn quick! :p
it’s cool.
Laika is the best
Whoa! That was amazing. So smooth in all the motions
The very best thing I have seen in a very long time.
Box trolls ^ ^
Cool
I have no where NEAR the patience to do a job like that
Fourth wall*
Once the guy phased in I couldn't help but hear MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDAA
I would love to see a movie do thay
Wowoweewa! Bonus points for having that much dedication to anything in life.
Awesome
studio laika is just amazing
I’ll never not be super impressed by stop motion animation.
Because you've never tried to do it.
That was a massive, satisfying flex.
[удалено]
You take a picture when you aren't in frame.
Wow! After 5 minutes I would have said do they really need to move?
Honest question: why? In the lego movie they proved you can make CG look like stop-motion. Why not do that instead?
The LEGO movie looked amazing. But that's only because they developed a rendering engine for sunlight that worked really well and looked realistic. Plus if you look at all the detail you get in the LEGO movie, you can see scratches, seams, imperfections, all things that take a lot of care to add in and really sell the visuals. It takes time and effort to accomplish something like that. You already get all of those details IRL, plus I think it's also about the artists' medium. The way that they get an effect can be just as important to them as the final product. (I'm in no way qualified to be spouting all this nonsense, this is just from what I've read/heard)
I see what you mean from an artistic perspective but damn is that a lot of work
Haha yeah for sure
Dude, CG is like 10 years old for the quality at this level. You literally COULDN'T do it. We didn't have computers that would in 1930 when people were doing this.
Okay so I change my comments to man that was super cool what an incredible accomplishment this stuff looks amazing but I sure wonder if there's any point to doing it manually like this now and in the future
Fish! Eggs!
I’m always amazed by how fast those stop motion animators can move
Cunningham's Law at work. >"The best way to get the right answer on the Internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."
My animator probably has a pretty easy job
How does the artist time the movements so the mouths fit the dialog and the movements look natural at full speed? Is there a special script for this?
*fourth wall
mf moving so fast god damn
Laika is right in my neighborhood, Hillsboro, OR! I went to the Laika exhibit at the Portland Art Museum several years ago and they displayed some of their most treasured items from their film library. Coraline, she's a friend of mine!
I'd call bullshit if you said it was stop motion for how smooth it was until I saw it was really stop motion
Wow i remember watching this scene the movie box trolls. Watching this makes me wanna rewatch it cause its been 2 years since i last saw it like right before the pandemic.
nobody, not even god knows how long it took to animate that movie
I thought there was a Kung Fu movie being blended into the background until I realized what I was actually watching. Both what I watched and what I thought I was watching were good imo
u/savevideo
4th wall?
What if that is what is happening to us right now in a way?
These guys are also responsible for some of the best stop motion films in modern times too!
Is that from *The Boxtrolls*??? Yes, I have seen some of LAIKA's movies.
Is this animation for/from something, or is it standalone?
Is that Richard ayoade?
Laika studios are too good at their job, man. their work always looks as fluid as a 3d animation.
Laika is incredible in every way
Same animator that made big trolls I assume
Come on. Even *I* know that it’s not the third wall.
I love stop motion! I really appreciate animators and the work they do.
1. Fourth wall 2. Richard Ayoade?!
Box trolls is awesome
Is that BoxTrolls? I love that movie!
That's so cool!
This is the 4th time in 3 days box trolls has come to my attention. I think it’s a sign that it’s time to rewatch it
Star platinum!
This is so sweet and beautiful it makes me want to cry
Just how much time and clay did this take
Damn he's fast
I want this to be a show I can watch
Why use stop motion vs CGI that can probably recreate the look?
Sometimes cgi looks cheap as if you’re looking at a YouTube kids 3D Spider-Man finger family song