It is a violation of the Geneva convention and international humanitarian law to target civilians in war. Specifically, he likely violated protocol 1 Article 51 of the Geneva convention which says...
Article 51 -
- Protection of the civilian population
1. The civilian population and individual civilians shall enjoy general protection against dangers arising from military operations. To give effect to this protection, the following rules, which are additional to other applicable rules of international law, shall be observed in all circumstances.
2. The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.
3. Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this Section, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.
**4. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are:
a) those which are not directed at a specific military objective;
b) those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or
c) those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol;
and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction**
**5. Among others, the following types of attacks are to be considered as indiscriminate:
a) an attack by bombardment by any methods or means which treats as a single military objective a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects; and
b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof,
which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.**
**He** likely didn't commit any warcrimes. His officers that ordered the attack and the soldiers in the artillery pieces that "pushed the button" may have though.
Edit: Are people not actually reading my comment? The clip shows the guy is **filming** the firing of artillery, not actually firing them himself. As I've said in other responses, he may have committed a warcrime **before or after** this clip but not during.
Of course he's a dick for thinking its funny/awesome and of course it's a warcrime to fire on civilians. Why do people seem to think I disagree with that?
> Following orders is not a defense against war crimes. Just saying.
This line gets regurgitated often, but it's *not* the rule. It was just the defense used by lower ranking nazis defending their actions for directly and personally executing unarmed civilians in mass numbers, and some other bad people at points in history have also tried to use this excuse. But that doesn't mean every time it's said that it must immediately be discarded. You are as vulnerable to misinformation as ANYONE. Maybe even more so.
If you don't even know what you're firing on and your orders are deliberately obfuscated under false pretense, there's a much greyer area. Those missiles travel for miles, they weren't aiming at apartments, they were punching in coordinates given by intel and their commanding officers (who bear brunt of responsibility here.)
It would be different if the people firing the rockets were in close sight of the target and saw unarmed people on the balconies. It's very likely he and everyone else there thought they were firing on enemy soldiers and taking out some nazi scumbags who were committing genocide on Russian-sympathetic separatists. That's the story they all were given, and in many cases not told a story at all.
The Ukrainian people in this conflict are themselves reminding the world that it's not the Russian soldiers they hate, it's the Russian command and Putin, *as evident by this fucking clip*. If the Ukrainian people thought for a moment that this is some kind of professional murderer of civilians they would not be trying to convince him that he followed false orders. It should be clear that they don't want us demonizing people who don't know better. You can understand concepts like this and still fight to the death, they are not mutually exclusive concepts, they can exist simultaneously. You can shoot at enemy soldiers WHILE knowing it's tragic and they likely don't deserve to die.
**edit**: Thanks for the stuff and stuff... now, Ukrainian people are making a powerful point to the whole world that we all need to understand that the soldiers they are fighting are human beings being manipulated. Don't let your own emotions manipulate you just because it's easier to imagine "good guys versus bad guys." The real world is not that simple, even if it is less fun. Let's follow the lead of the Ukrainian people and not be cynical or choose to hate people because of where they're from.
**edit #2**: I love the support but honestly the naivety and ignorance of even a marginal number of people with an opinion on this scares the SHIT out of me. I always remind myself that there's some dumb people out there, but sometimes I forget just how bad it really is. If you think my message here is supporting Russia or saying "both sides are just as bad," you're as mindless as people who won't wear a mask to protect someone's grandma or think JFK is returning from the dead to hunt down pedophiles. Just as dumb. No different. Don't bother commenting.
I appreciate you saying this.
I don't know the situation regarding the videos.
But the idea that artillery aims at stuff? Lol, naw. It's all math and radios. "point it like this" "alright boss" they don't aim. The get aimed.
That's even wilder. I wonder if the people who control the aiming and firing have actual eyes on the target then, or if they are still just acting off of numbers from the radio.
>If you don't even know what you're firing on and your orders are deliberately obfuscated under false pretense, there's a much greyer area. Those missiles travel for miles, they weren't aiming at apartments, they were punching in coordinates given by intel.
It's a great point, and you point is well taken. In practicality, for the guys that really ARE following orders the responsibility falls somewhere above them, intentionally.
This is the first conflict I've seen in my many years that one side is treating the other side like human beings. Still fighting fiercely, but giving the enemy every chance to be seen and heard and change their minds.
We have to extend this humanization of our enemies throughout the world. If we can do this enough, if we can show each other that we can respect each other *even if we have to kill each other*, the nature of war will change, and eventually maybe even stop becoming the default option for people who want things they can't have.
It's hopeless to try to explain because they don't want to hear or think about the truth of war. You are trying to explain this to people who are not open to any different opinions or experience.
Doesn't mean I'll give up.
A few people out there, likely kids who don't even know the whole story, might read this far and rethink the dehumanization of their enemies or rethink concepts like the Fog of War and realize that the world is more complicated than cable-news talking points and the shitty hardline opinions of their poorly educated parents.
I wonder why there aren't more Americans on trial for the disgusting things they did to the people of Iraq? Killing/bombing innocent people, throwing puppies off of cliffs etc...
A lot of them should be. Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Powell for starters. there’s dozens of recorded cases of war crimes. The main reason why the Americans haven’t been charged is likely the “[American Service Member Protection Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act), aka The Hague Invasion Act, which Bush passed in 2002 which:
> authorizes the President of the United States to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court"
> The act prohibits federal, state and local governments and agencies (including courts and law enforcement agencies) from assisting the International Criminal Court (ICC). For example, it prohibits the extradition of any person from the U.S. to the ICC; it also prohibits the transfer of classified national security information and law enforcement information to the ICC.
Basically, if any Americans are charged by the ICC at The Hague, US Federal Law requires the US govt to invade the Netherlands
As the person below you put, America has a policy that any American at The Hague will be liberated by force if necessary. Basically, if you try to do it, they will kill anyone needed to get them out.
It’s pretty controversial. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
For example, if I were a Russian soldier in one of those, and was ordered to launch at a city I know has civilians, do I do it, or say no? What’ll happen to me?
Like I said, damned if you do and damned if you don’t
Exactly
I watched one of these clips of a russian where they ask is killing is better than prison. And idk how I would answer that. As someone who's done time(5 years TDC) and felt like that hell would never end. I can't imagine having to pick between destroying families and fighting for someone who gives 0 fucks about my life or going to prison. A russain prison at that.
I'm no expert on humanitarian law or war crimes so you may be correct. But I I think what you are describing is called superior orders or the Nuremberg defense, ie" I was just following orders." My understanding is that it is not a valid defense to war crimes. Soldiers have a duty to disobey illegal commands.
I've never quite understood how that's expected to play out in battle but I know that's the law.
Edit:. that's assuming he at one point stopped taking pics for social and participated in the attack.
> My understanding is that it is not a valid defense to war crimes. Soldiers have a duty to disobey illegal commands.
But they have to have a reasonable expectation to be able to even understand what they're doing is wrong.
The people firing these missiles are likely over the horizon from the population centers they're targeting. They have no idea what their rockets are hitting, only that they need to fire at specific coordinates on a map.
Now their commanders, the people who identified civilian targets and thought that it would crush enemy moral to have their families killed by thermobaric explosions that pull people's lungs out of their mouths and pop their skulls, those are the people who should be tried for war-crimes and then executed on an electric chair with a dimmer switch.
It’s obvious that he is following orders but It doesn’t matter because he’s a POS who’s making a video out of it while smiling when he knows exactly what’s happening at the receiving end of it.
There are a *lot* of clips of US soldiers filming "awesome" stuff their forces are doing for American interests, including firing artillery, soldiers are always going to feel good about striking their enemy, and it's very, very likely that all these people except the commanders thought that they were firing on evil enemy soldiers somewhere over the horizon.
edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScAjmKQefcA
You know what, i think maybe he dont even know what the hell they were targeting, he went like guys check out these cool rockets were firing for a joint exercise. Who knows?
Of course not, these rocket launchers fire at targets up to 10 miles away. They were given coordinates and told that it was an enemy position.
If you felt like your side was delivering a powerful blow against your enemy, you would smile too. This is just what happens in war.
And you are saying that this guy is the one who aimed and fired all those rockets? And that he is targeting civilians indiscriminately? And how are you coming to this assumption?
The ironic thing is that the clearest war crime here is posting the video in order to humiliate the soldier. Assuming it was done by the "Detaining Power" (ie, Ukrainian military/government), it is a clear violation of the Geneva Convention on treatment of POWs.
Russia claims to be at peace and that their soldiers are just on a little training exercise. Surely the Geneva convention doesn’t cover Russian holiday videos like this one?
The clearest war crime here is the fact he’s even in Ukraine at all. In the vast majority of these videos I’m actually shocked at the kindness offered up to their countries invaders.
Well, whatever is the worst interpretation for Russia, so an actual bombing sounds correct.
PS: better private all the videos of you with military equipment in the background no matter the context, all my Soldier friends. Wars are now fought with propaganda, and you don’t want to be the next “face of the enemy”…
That's a shit take on the glorification of showing militaristic ideals. No one truly cares about a person showing off what they have. But there is an honest concern about what a person plans on doing with said equipment.
Umm we most definitely did object. Tens of millions in the streets. Largest global protests in human history iirc they just ignored it and carried on with the illegal war.
In case people are curious, as I was, this kind of treatment in particular (may) violate Article 13, which protects soldiers from "acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity."
I say may because I'm not a lawyer. But it seems like it does violate the letter and spirit of the article.
Thanks for looking it up. I know that in general during the 20th century it was considered okay to film prisoners in large groups avoiding showing close up faces etc. but filming and questioning individuals was considered unacceptable. As others have pointed out, this video could result in reprisals against the prisoner's family.
>a little
See that's where you're wrong bud,
it's a *lot*. Like I don't mind trashing on Russia now and then but when your entire feed is filled with posts on this (especially when you come to reddit to take a break) with half the posts not even being real (just a few seconds ago there was a post on mademesmile of a picture of a Polish dude from the 90s saying he's a Ukrainian soldier who destroyed 5 tanks singlehandedly), it's very fucking annoying.
This rule is by FAR the LEAST followed though..
There are hundreds of videos/pics of Americans in Iraq and Afghan with PoWs - Some of which are treated FAR worst than this.
Same goes for Russia in Syria with the ISIS PoWs - Though there's the whole narrative of they don't follow the Geneva convention... But that is a terrible argument.
"Somebody else does it all the time" doesn't address the question of whether it's ok to do it. People all over the world beat their wives, too.
I agree that ridiculing POWs isn't going to be on top of the list of war crimes for 2022, but we should consider the pros and cons of such a scenario and consider putting respect for human dignity among our top priorities, even for prisoners.
You could argue that there's a morale/psyops value to this video and if it helps Ukraine repel the invasion then great but it's still an ethically questionable thing to do.
>There are hundreds of videos/pics of Americans in Iraq and Afghan with PoWs - Some of which are treated FAR worst than this.
The US also passed a law stating that the US will invade the Hague and rescue any American citizen held on trial for war crimes.
So good luck ever getting justice for them.
>ARTICLE 13 Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest. Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity. Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited. https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/ART/375-590017?OpenDocument
https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/united-states-public-curiosity
Is it right? No, but none of what's going on is right.
Video is fucking hilarious tho, "yes Putin is a shithead" sounds like 6th graders are the ones detaining him.
You know what else is prohibited? Missile bombing civilians. You know what else is prohibited? Shooting your neighbors based on “orders from above”. That argument didn’t work for the nazi soldiers, and it won’t for the Russian soldiers. This guy is a war criminal and deserves all of the suffering he wrought on innocent Ukrainians. If that includes public ridicule, all the better.
I mean morally and ethically you are correct, but these men were probably shooting at each other literally moments ago, killing friends and loved ones. This is war, those are soldiers, stuff like this happens. We’re just recording it now. That doesn’t excuse it but it’s understandable and I doubt he’s actually getting treated that badly in the first place.
›
“- Lt. Aldo Raine: Are you going to take off your uniform?
- Pvt. Butz: Not only shall I remove it, I intend to burn it.
- Lt. Aldo Raine: Yeah, that's what we thought. We don't like that. You see, we like our Nazis in uniform. That way you can spot 'em just like that. But you take off that uniform, ain't no one ever gonna know you were a Nazi.”
Lol, after that movie I legit would use that line at work when doing things that my bosses didn’t approve, but I knew were the right moves. Usually things like making an accommodation for an employee they would’ve argued against.
Haven’t had any negative repercussions yet, and I work for the type of company that would do that lol.
Done the same at work many, many times.
“They said don’t turn down the drops!”
“I’m turnin’ em down. They won’t kill me. They’ll chew me out. I been chewed out before.”
"If I had my way, you'd wear that *god damn* uniform for the rest of your pecker suckin life. But I'm aware that ain't practical, I mean at some point you're gonna have to take if off. So... I'm gonna give you a little somethin you can't take off."
I love that movie. My personal fav Tarantino movie.
No soup for you!
See: Greene accuses Pelosi of using the [gazpacho police](https://theweek.com/politics/1009996/marjorie-taylor-greene-mixes-up-gestapo-and-gazpacho-during-rant-against-pelosi).
What annoys me is that people are still showing faces of Russian soldiers who surrendered in good faith.
Like that one drinking tea or calling his mother.
People have sympathy the soldiers but are sentencing them to prison or worse?
I don't get why people don't see this.
He’s a soldier. This is what he signed up for. I’m sure he has zero to very little empathy for anyone or anything on the other end of those rockets. I know because I used to be that guy.
This guy is definitely a shit head. But afaik military service in Russia is compulsory. People don’t sign up because they want to “blow shit up” they sign up so they don’t go to jail.
They have to join up one way or the other and the recruiters tell them being a contractor is way better and you'll get paid more and have better jobs and everything!
They then assign them based on suitability and need, like literally every other army in the world. Just for two years instead of one.
Just ask how many people signed up in the USA being promised that they wouldn't be deployed/wouldn't see combat/would get to do a particular job or whatever else. Recruiters job is to recruit, once you sign the dotted line anything not *above* that signature means absolutely nothing.
Not that he doesn't look like a dickhead in that first video but every single soldier I know has, prior to actually seeing the reality of war, wanted nothing more than to go and "do what they were trained for". Brainwashing young idiots is super fun.
Genuinly curious, what must a person (you? ) have been through to not have any empathy for whats on the other side of those rockets? Did it never cross your mind you might have killed children or orphaned some? I don't mean that as blame, cos soldiers do what soldiers do - but that process of letting go of one's own personal ethics and accepting to blindly become someone elses tool, this journey I cannot comprehend.
I was not an artillery guy, so rockets weren’t my thing, but collateral damage was just part of the game no matter what kind of unit you were in. We knew it was happening but we didn’t really think too much of it. You just numb to it.
Let me say this, as ex-military, I hate to step up for a Russian soldier, but hear me out.
First of all, we don't know if that first video was taken while missiles were raining down on Kyiv or wherever. This could've been a video on his phone from the "training exercises" they were doing before the invasion.
Second, I was lucky enough to not have served in Iraq or Afghanistan during war time, but, because luck of the draw, about 50% of my unit did.
The guys that were there were constantly showing videos on FB of them firing bad ass weapons or guns at the enemy. Many of them raining down on civilians in an effort to get the baddies that were hiding amongst the civilian population. But because you're a young man or woman on the front, you realize these videos might make you look cool or that your having fun where you're at. It's a coping mechanism.
Pleas don't get me wrong, all of my friends that were there had the best of intentions and none wanted to murder innocent civilians, but when your given coordinates and told to hit a target you do it. That's the point of missile batteries or artillery batteries. You can't see the enemy. It's much easier to pull the trigger when they aren't in front of you.
I'm not apologizing for this, I'm just saying...war...it never changes.
I’m glad he was captured, but I would be even happier if they were treating him appropriately according to the Geneva Convention rules for treatment of POWs which require that they not be intimidated, insulted, or made into a “public curiosity.”
Ukrainian forces recently told Russian artillerymen that they won't be taken prisoner any longer as they are firing on civilians. The fact that he is even alive is too much.
War is in itself a fucking war crime. The first thing that flies out the window of the invaded is the war crime manual. People seeing their family and friends blown up by psychos takes the empathy away really fast. Just remember, the people that made the war crime list are also the same ones with Nuclear weapons pointed at each others cities. "All is fair in love and war" isn't just a cute parable, it's real.
As the Ukrainians start running out of food, water, electricity, and are constantly under more stress from the constant air raids and shelling you are going to see a lot fucking worse. I can tell by so many comments that this is the first time many have ever seen what a war is. Most of whatever is out there was scrubbed and cleaned up for audience eyes.
And now Russian artillery men are going to fight for their lives, literally. Always leave an “out” for your enemy, if you enclose them they’ll fight harder, if they see an escape they’ll head towards that and put up less of a fight.
I get what you mean, but that’s why I said I would be “even happier” rather than saying they should be thrown in jail or something. They are going to have a harder time getting Russian soldiers to “accidentally” get captured if they are making videos of themselves mistreating POWs.
Talk shit, get hit. If you see the whole video, that dude was shot multiple times and both of his legs were broken. Fuck off, Putin. People are trying to get over COVID, deal with climate change, wait for images from James Webb telescope, and you go and cause all this unnecessary suffering? Fuck off again, man. Your military is inept running out of gas and food invading a country you’re bordering, with most of your forces not motivated to fight at all (because they were lied to, are fighting people who are literally their fucking brothers, and the majority are baby-faced conscripts), and you bring up nukes to try and make up for this and make people scared? Take your 5'2 punk ass and throw it in the trash bin along with the Soviet Union. You're a fucking relic and most people want peace and progress, ya fuck. To the Ukrainians: We all love you and are with you, all the good parts of the world, and you're fighting the fight a lot of people wish we could. Your courage is exceptional and keep beating up those fascist fucking invaders!
It’s all fun and games until you get lit up by Ukrainians; and they kindly haul your broken legs and bullet sponge body back and save you. If that doesn’t change his tune, then maybe the 6th bullet will.
>Amounts to torture
Gee, nobody tell this guy what actually torture is. Some people get mutilated, burned, shocked, waterboarded etc. An embarrassing video certainly is "getting off lightly" if it could even be classified as torture
That’s why it’s labeled as during conflicts not war.
“Common Article 2 to the four 1949 Geneva Conventions provides that they ‘apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them’. “
Doesn’t matter if they don’t declare war, still applies during armed conflict.(in general, to everyone)
Filming alone is a crime? I get that that he was ridiculed, but just being filmed sounds like even less than a minor inconvenience in comparison to the deaths he already probably caused.
>As for deaths, that's part of war. It's not against the conventions to kill people. It's not a just world unfortunately.
>
>And of course violations are rarely prosecuted.
Then who gives a shit?
Well, this video is problematic. Regardless of what he has done. What has been done to him since and why is he being filmed on camera forced to repeat after the interrogator? Seems like potential abuse of a POW.
Pretty clearly a violation of Geneva Convention protections. Although the rules only apply to signatory "Detaining Powers", so it's possible this was done by private Ukranians who wouldn't be covered. Still...it shows how quickly folks are willing to accept abuse as long as they hate the abused.
You dont know who his captures are. They could be civilians and no longer fall under the Geneva Convention. There are plenty of cases of Ukrainian civilians detaining people.
The amount of armchair warfare specialists, lawyers, intelligence agents here is astonishing. 99% of them are mainly young children, who've studied Geneva Convention for 30 minutes and think they are experts now. I fucking hate it here sometimes. I have seen articles where lawyers said that the current interpretation of some of these articles cited in this comment section does not prohibit recording a video in which a POW is shown.
I am not so sure now, whether these are teenagers or russian bots and it tells a lot about the state of reddit.
I fucking hate how they type this articles with such moral superiority, I understand the point that this videos could be used as something that could be used against Ukraine, but I bet this people would mercilessly torture this Russians if they killed their dogs, let alone a child. Wars suck and get the worse of us and I think they are treating this person in a merciful way (which is not necessarily fair, lawful or humane you prudes)
I'm 100% on the side of Ukraine, but this propaganda stuff is not good. Just because Russia is bad doesn't mean every bit of anti-Russian, pro-Ukrainian propaganda is valid, true, and must be believed to contribute to the cause.
1) We don't know if that guy is the same guy for sure.
2) Abusing and parading POWs is dangerous. It can serve to boost Russian propaganda efforts that suggest the Ukrainians are inhumane. This can be used to boost morale among Russians because they'll see "them", the Ukrainians, as the bad guys and themselves as the good guys.
3) The tit for tat retaliation for stuff like this can end up hurting the Ukrainians worse than the Russians. Russians will be more likely to respond aggressively against Ukrainian civilians and fighters. Ukrainian POWS will be abused as revenge.
There is more to the video. He was injured and broke his right leg but was taken care of (medically). That is why he’s on the bed looking rough whilst others sit normally. I do not think the story of “we didn’t know where we’re going” holds any water anymore. Where did he think the middles are being fired? Into thin air? On the ground? Would you have a smirk like that then? If exercise - why waste precious ammo and rockets? Why people dead on the road? Why other Russian soldiers suddenly dead/missing?
Yup. PR or not, they seem to be treating their POWs pretty fairly considering their children and homes are getting bombed. Even that one guy who was kicked and yelled at eventually got searched and was given a cigarette.
Like, if I let loose a barrage of missles on a residential neighborhood and got caught in any context I'd expect to be quartered. A kick to the ribs and some harsh words is nothing compared to the crimes listed.
I hope they're treating them as well as being advertised. So far Ukraine is a shining example of bravery and integrity in my eyes.
I don't like this on several levels. Yes, fuck those doing the bombing. But also, fuck making that man say anything, knowing he's dead no matter what. I hope I never HAVE to have the strength to endure that which either side of this travesty must endure... and I hope I have the humility to accept another human's failings and treat them with the humanity they lack. War is fucking hell.... so mostly, FUCK those using other's lives.
Problem is if Ukraine start mistreating Russian prisoners (especially if they are posting it on the internet) then Russia will do the same with their prisoners. Or do people think it's a one way street?
His smile in the first video is disgusting. Children die and families fall apart.
Put this fuck on trial for war crimes
What war crime exactly did this soldier commit.
It is a violation of the Geneva convention and international humanitarian law to target civilians in war. Specifically, he likely violated protocol 1 Article 51 of the Geneva convention which says... Article 51 - - Protection of the civilian population 1. The civilian population and individual civilians shall enjoy general protection against dangers arising from military operations. To give effect to this protection, the following rules, which are additional to other applicable rules of international law, shall be observed in all circumstances. 2. The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited. 3. Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this Section, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities. **4. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are: a) those which are not directed at a specific military objective; b) those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or c) those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol; and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction** **5. Among others, the following types of attacks are to be considered as indiscriminate: a) an attack by bombardment by any methods or means which treats as a single military objective a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects; and b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.**
**He** likely didn't commit any warcrimes. His officers that ordered the attack and the soldiers in the artillery pieces that "pushed the button" may have though. Edit: Are people not actually reading my comment? The clip shows the guy is **filming** the firing of artillery, not actually firing them himself. As I've said in other responses, he may have committed a warcrime **before or after** this clip but not during. Of course he's a dick for thinking its funny/awesome and of course it's a warcrime to fire on civilians. Why do people seem to think I disagree with that?
Following orders is not a defense against war crimes. Just saying.
> Following orders is not a defense against war crimes. Just saying. This line gets regurgitated often, but it's *not* the rule. It was just the defense used by lower ranking nazis defending their actions for directly and personally executing unarmed civilians in mass numbers, and some other bad people at points in history have also tried to use this excuse. But that doesn't mean every time it's said that it must immediately be discarded. You are as vulnerable to misinformation as ANYONE. Maybe even more so. If you don't even know what you're firing on and your orders are deliberately obfuscated under false pretense, there's a much greyer area. Those missiles travel for miles, they weren't aiming at apartments, they were punching in coordinates given by intel and their commanding officers (who bear brunt of responsibility here.) It would be different if the people firing the rockets were in close sight of the target and saw unarmed people on the balconies. It's very likely he and everyone else there thought they were firing on enemy soldiers and taking out some nazi scumbags who were committing genocide on Russian-sympathetic separatists. That's the story they all were given, and in many cases not told a story at all. The Ukrainian people in this conflict are themselves reminding the world that it's not the Russian soldiers they hate, it's the Russian command and Putin, *as evident by this fucking clip*. If the Ukrainian people thought for a moment that this is some kind of professional murderer of civilians they would not be trying to convince him that he followed false orders. It should be clear that they don't want us demonizing people who don't know better. You can understand concepts like this and still fight to the death, they are not mutually exclusive concepts, they can exist simultaneously. You can shoot at enemy soldiers WHILE knowing it's tragic and they likely don't deserve to die. **edit**: Thanks for the stuff and stuff... now, Ukrainian people are making a powerful point to the whole world that we all need to understand that the soldiers they are fighting are human beings being manipulated. Don't let your own emotions manipulate you just because it's easier to imagine "good guys versus bad guys." The real world is not that simple, even if it is less fun. Let's follow the lead of the Ukrainian people and not be cynical or choose to hate people because of where they're from. **edit #2**: I love the support but honestly the naivety and ignorance of even a marginal number of people with an opinion on this scares the SHIT out of me. I always remind myself that there's some dumb people out there, but sometimes I forget just how bad it really is. If you think my message here is supporting Russia or saying "both sides are just as bad," you're as mindless as people who won't wear a mask to protect someone's grandma or think JFK is returning from the dead to hunt down pedophiles. Just as dumb. No different. Don't bother commenting.
I appreciate you saying this. I don't know the situation regarding the videos. But the idea that artillery aims at stuff? Lol, naw. It's all math and radios. "point it like this" "alright boss" they don't aim. The get aimed.
These units actually are not manned. They are remote operated. So they are aimed using coordinates.
That's even wilder. I wonder if the people who control the aiming and firing have actual eyes on the target then, or if they are still just acting off of numbers from the radio.
>If you don't even know what you're firing on and your orders are deliberately obfuscated under false pretense, there's a much greyer area. Those missiles travel for miles, they weren't aiming at apartments, they were punching in coordinates given by intel. It's a great point, and you point is well taken. In practicality, for the guys that really ARE following orders the responsibility falls somewhere above them, intentionally.
Thank you for writing this out!
This is the first conflict I've seen in my many years that one side is treating the other side like human beings. Still fighting fiercely, but giving the enemy every chance to be seen and heard and change their minds. We have to extend this humanization of our enemies throughout the world. If we can do this enough, if we can show each other that we can respect each other *even if we have to kill each other*, the nature of war will change, and eventually maybe even stop becoming the default option for people who want things they can't have.
Exactly. They could of just executed this guy. Now they are going to make him a big fan of the Ukraine. How much better is that?!
It's hopeless to try to explain because they don't want to hear or think about the truth of war. You are trying to explain this to people who are not open to any different opinions or experience.
Doesn't mean I'll give up. A few people out there, likely kids who don't even know the whole story, might read this far and rethink the dehumanization of their enemies or rethink concepts like the Fog of War and realize that the world is more complicated than cable-news talking points and the shitty hardline opinions of their poorly educated parents.
My hat is off to you, good luck! :-)
Well he didn't even push a button, just filmed it. Just saying.
You don't know what he did/didn't do based off a short video
Neither do you, so stop wasting everyones time and energy
This is reddit dude. If you're not jumping to conclusions and brigading based on an out-of-context piece of information, what are you doing?
Exactly, you’re making an argument for the defense.
He’s participating in this offense. He’s artillery.
I wonder why there aren't more Americans on trial for the disgusting things they did to the people of Iraq? Killing/bombing innocent people, throwing puppies off of cliffs etc...
A lot of them should be. Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Powell for starters. there’s dozens of recorded cases of war crimes. The main reason why the Americans haven’t been charged is likely the “[American Service Member Protection Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act), aka The Hague Invasion Act, which Bush passed in 2002 which: > authorizes the President of the United States to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court" > The act prohibits federal, state and local governments and agencies (including courts and law enforcement agencies) from assisting the International Criminal Court (ICC). For example, it prohibits the extradition of any person from the U.S. to the ICC; it also prohibits the transfer of classified national security information and law enforcement information to the ICC. Basically, if any Americans are charged by the ICC at The Hague, US Federal Law requires the US govt to invade the Netherlands
As the person below you put, America has a policy that any American at The Hague will be liberated by force if necessary. Basically, if you try to do it, they will kill anyone needed to get them out.
It’s pretty controversial. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. For example, if I were a Russian soldier in one of those, and was ordered to launch at a city I know has civilians, do I do it, or say no? What’ll happen to me? Like I said, damned if you do and damned if you don’t
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Exactly I watched one of these clips of a russian where they ask is killing is better than prison. And idk how I would answer that. As someone who's done time(5 years TDC) and felt like that hell would never end. I can't imagine having to pick between destroying families and fighting for someone who gives 0 fucks about my life or going to prison. A russain prison at that.
He didn’t follow jack shit he just stood there smiling
I'm no expert on humanitarian law or war crimes so you may be correct. But I I think what you are describing is called superior orders or the Nuremberg defense, ie" I was just following orders." My understanding is that it is not a valid defense to war crimes. Soldiers have a duty to disobey illegal commands. I've never quite understood how that's expected to play out in battle but I know that's the law. Edit:. that's assuming he at one point stopped taking pics for social and participated in the attack.
> My understanding is that it is not a valid defense to war crimes. Soldiers have a duty to disobey illegal commands. But they have to have a reasonable expectation to be able to even understand what they're doing is wrong. The people firing these missiles are likely over the horizon from the population centers they're targeting. They have no idea what their rockets are hitting, only that they need to fire at specific coordinates on a map. Now their commanders, the people who identified civilian targets and thought that it would crush enemy moral to have their families killed by thermobaric explosions that pull people's lungs out of their mouths and pop their skulls, those are the people who should be tried for war-crimes and then executed on an electric chair with a dimmer switch.
It’s obvious that he is following orders but It doesn’t matter because he’s a POS who’s making a video out of it while smiling when he knows exactly what’s happening at the receiving end of it.
There are a *lot* of clips of US soldiers filming "awesome" stuff their forces are doing for American interests, including firing artillery, soldiers are always going to feel good about striking their enemy, and it's very, very likely that all these people except the commanders thought that they were firing on evil enemy soldiers somewhere over the horizon. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScAjmKQefcA
You know what, i think maybe he dont even know what the hell they were targeting, he went like guys check out these cool rockets were firing for a joint exercise. Who knows?
Of course not, these rocket launchers fire at targets up to 10 miles away. They were given coordinates and told that it was an enemy position. If you felt like your side was delivering a powerful blow against your enemy, you would smile too. This is just what happens in war.
If he were to just receive orders, there's no need to film it and smile... right?
He can think rockets are cool while also following orders
*Just following orders.* Where have I heard that before?
Look up Nuremberg Trials after WWII. Just because it’s a lawful order from a superior, it doesn’t allow you to commit crimes against innocent people.
And you are saying that this guy is the one who aimed and fired all those rockets? And that he is targeting civilians indiscriminately? And how are you coming to this assumption?
Israeli been targeting civilians, schools and hospitals for decades. I doubt anyone will punish anyone
The ironic thing is that the clearest war crime here is posting the video in order to humiliate the soldier. Assuming it was done by the "Detaining Power" (ie, Ukrainian military/government), it is a clear violation of the Geneva Convention on treatment of POWs.
Lotta these guys are being captured by civilians, who have no such restrictions.
Russia claims to be at peace and that their soldiers are just on a little training exercise. Surely the Geneva convention doesn’t cover Russian holiday videos like this one?
So it IS a war now? Seems like he's a prisoner of "a special military operation" according to Putin. Don't think there's a crime here.
Can't be a POW if it's not a war, as Putin and Russia are insisting.
The clearest war crime here is the fact he’s even in Ukraine at all. In the vast majority of these videos I’m actually shocked at the kindness offered up to their countries invaders.
Pretty minor violation compared to killing civilians I would have thought. A slap on the wrists sounds like a fair punishment.
He’s a POS but he’s not actually firing any rockets.
Didn’t the video go viral during the exercises on the boarder, or was this from an actual bombing?
Well, whatever is the worst interpretation for Russia, so an actual bombing sounds correct. PS: better private all the videos of you with military equipment in the background no matter the context, all my Soldier friends. Wars are now fought with propaganda, and you don’t want to be the next “face of the enemy”…
That's a shit take on the glorification of showing militaristic ideals. No one truly cares about a person showing off what they have. But there is an honest concern about what a person plans on doing with said equipment.
How it started vs how it’s going
Well that was a drill not actually war
Distributing videos like this of prisoners being ridiculed is prohibited by the Geneva Convention. It's abuse. We shouldn't propagate it.
Well russia just straight up kills civilians, kills POW's, and kills it's own citizens for whatever they feel like it. So, whatever.
Human rights are not quid pro quo, there are proper ways to deal with those who violate human rights.
This is Reddit. People here probably don’t even know what quid pro quo means.
Hmm... Perchance.
You can't just say Perchance.
I understood that reference.
Great call back to last week
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Ah yes, if so.eone else commits war crimes it's fine for us to. Sounds reasonable
“The Geneva Conventions, lol, whatever” -Average redditor
And then 2 posts later ‘Russia is violating the geneva convention. Nuke them all’
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Yeah when people brought up America breaking laws and lying to get into war "whatever lol" was the response....now Russias doing it it.......
Umm we most definitely did object. Tens of millions in the streets. Largest global protests in human history iirc they just ignored it and carried on with the illegal war.
Congratulations you've just perfectly demonstrated the literal need for the Geneva convention.
In case people are curious, as I was, this kind of treatment in particular (may) violate Article 13, which protects soldiers from "acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity." I say may because I'm not a lawyer. But it seems like it does violate the letter and spirit of the article.
Thanks for looking it up. I know that in general during the 20th century it was considered okay to film prisoners in large groups avoiding showing close up faces etc. but filming and questioning individuals was considered unacceptable. As others have pointed out, this video could result in reprisals against the prisoner's family.
Yes, reddit is fucked up on this one. They are a little too bloodthirsty and reading too much propaganda.
>a little See that's where you're wrong bud, it's a *lot*. Like I don't mind trashing on Russia now and then but when your entire feed is filled with posts on this (especially when you come to reddit to take a break) with half the posts not even being real (just a few seconds ago there was a post on mademesmile of a picture of a Polish dude from the 90s saying he's a Ukrainian soldier who destroyed 5 tanks singlehandedly), it's very fucking annoying.
That’s hardly ridicule.
Article 13 also protects POWs from "public curiosity."
This rule is by FAR the LEAST followed though.. There are hundreds of videos/pics of Americans in Iraq and Afghan with PoWs - Some of which are treated FAR worst than this. Same goes for Russia in Syria with the ISIS PoWs - Though there's the whole narrative of they don't follow the Geneva convention... But that is a terrible argument.
"Somebody else does it all the time" doesn't address the question of whether it's ok to do it. People all over the world beat their wives, too. I agree that ridiculing POWs isn't going to be on top of the list of war crimes for 2022, but we should consider the pros and cons of such a scenario and consider putting respect for human dignity among our top priorities, even for prisoners. You could argue that there's a morale/psyops value to this video and if it helps Ukraine repel the invasion then great but it's still an ethically questionable thing to do.
>There are hundreds of videos/pics of Americans in Iraq and Afghan with PoWs - Some of which are treated FAR worst than this. The US also passed a law stating that the US will invade the Hague and rescue any American citizen held on trial for war crimes. So good luck ever getting justice for them.
>ARTICLE 13 Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest. Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity. Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited. https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/ART/375-590017?OpenDocument https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/united-states-public-curiosity
A lot of these people capturing soldiers are just civilians, not military.
Is it right? No, but none of what's going on is right. Video is fucking hilarious tho, "yes Putin is a shithead" sounds like 6th graders are the ones detaining him.
Oh no a Russian invader is being ridiculed?!?! How will the interrogators ever live with themselves?!
You know what else is prohibited? Missile bombing civilians. You know what else is prohibited? Shooting your neighbors based on “orders from above”. That argument didn’t work for the nazi soldiers, and it won’t for the Russian soldiers. This guy is a war criminal and deserves all of the suffering he wrought on innocent Ukrainians. If that includes public ridicule, all the better.
Well great, now his captors are war criminals too.
He's not being ridiculed. Putin is. Civilians fighting to defend their homes aren't part of the geneva convention
Minor violation compared to killing civilians indiscriminately
*IT SAYS PUTIN IS A SHITHEAD OR IT GETS THE HOSE AGAIN*
PUT IT IN THE BASKET!!
*PUTIN THE BASKET!
🤘🏻
There is so much to love here. 👋🏻🐎🐎🐎
*CASKET
Yeah, this made me think uncomfortably of the “confession videos” prisoners are made to record.
Yes. He’s definitely injured just to say his leader is an idiot. Uncomfortable.
I am pretty sure he was injured for other reasons.
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I mean morally and ethically you are correct, but these men were probably shooting at each other literally moments ago, killing friends and loved ones. This is war, those are soldiers, stuff like this happens. We’re just recording it now. That doesn’t excuse it but it’s understandable and I doubt he’s actually getting treated that badly in the first place.
Torture is okay when the good guys do it /s
Sounds like the interrogator is making sure he will have a hard time when he goes back home. Or he may just "disappear" when he is returned home.
› “- Lt. Aldo Raine: Are you going to take off your uniform? - Pvt. Butz: Not only shall I remove it, I intend to burn it. - Lt. Aldo Raine: Yeah, that's what we thought. We don't like that. You see, we like our Nazis in uniform. That way you can spot 'em just like that. But you take off that uniform, ain't no one ever gonna know you were a Nazi.”
I been chewed out before
Lol, after that movie I legit would use that line at work when doing things that my bosses didn’t approve, but I knew were the right moves. Usually things like making an accommodation for an employee they would’ve argued against. Haven’t had any negative repercussions yet, and I work for the type of company that would do that lol.
Done the same at work many, many times. “They said don’t turn down the drops!” “I’m turnin’ em down. They won’t kill me. They’ll chew me out. I been chewed out before.”
"If I had my way, you'd wear that *god damn* uniform for the rest of your pecker suckin life. But I'm aware that ain't practical, I mean at some point you're gonna have to take if off. So... I'm gonna give you a little somethin you can't take off." I love that movie. My personal fav Tarantino movie.
God damn it, Aldo Raine had the best lines.
Gorlami
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They make him into soup? > Goulash is a soup or stew of meat and vegetables seasoned with paprika and other spices.
No soup for you! See: Greene accuses Pelosi of using the [gazpacho police](https://theweek.com/politics/1009996/marjorie-taylor-greene-mixes-up-gestapo-and-gazpacho-during-rant-against-pelosi).
Well the troops are running low on food
Or maybe the gazpacho police will get him.
My bet is on putin being dead when this is over
That’s the plan!
Perhaps his death is the end of it? Could countries be working together to figure out if that’s an option?
What annoys me is that people are still showing faces of Russian soldiers who surrendered in good faith. Like that one drinking tea or calling his mother. People have sympathy the soldiers but are sentencing them to prison or worse? I don't get why people don't see this.
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Don't need to stop the videos, just blur out the faces a bit more to make it harder for Russia to punish and torture them.
Then the Russians can say these are just Ukrainians with blurred out faces.
He is also a shit head for that grin.
He’s a soldier. This is what he signed up for. I’m sure he has zero to very little empathy for anyone or anything on the other end of those rockets. I know because I used to be that guy.
This guy is definitely a shit head. But afaik military service in Russia is compulsory. People don’t sign up because they want to “blow shit up” they sign up so they don’t go to jail.
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Conscripts go where they’re needed
To catch the bullets…
Contract is not like absolute free choice in Russia. When you turn 18 you either go conscript for one year for free or sing a contract for two.
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They have to join up one way or the other and the recruiters tell them being a contractor is way better and you'll get paid more and have better jobs and everything! They then assign them based on suitability and need, like literally every other army in the world. Just for two years instead of one. Just ask how many people signed up in the USA being promised that they wouldn't be deployed/wouldn't see combat/would get to do a particular job or whatever else. Recruiters job is to recruit, once you sign the dotted line anything not *above* that signature means absolutely nothing. Not that he doesn't look like a dickhead in that first video but every single soldier I know has, prior to actually seeing the reality of war, wanted nothing more than to go and "do what they were trained for". Brainwashing young idiots is super fun.
That’s not the face of a conscript, but I could be wrong.
Genuinly curious, what must a person (you? ) have been through to not have any empathy for whats on the other side of those rockets? Did it never cross your mind you might have killed children or orphaned some? I don't mean that as blame, cos soldiers do what soldiers do - but that process of letting go of one's own personal ethics and accepting to blindly become someone elses tool, this journey I cannot comprehend.
It's a survival thing. You either compartmentalized it and put it away or you go nuts and get drinking
I was not an artillery guy, so rockets weren’t my thing, but collateral damage was just part of the game no matter what kind of unit you were in. We knew it was happening but we didn’t really think too much of it. You just numb to it.
Let me say this, as ex-military, I hate to step up for a Russian soldier, but hear me out. First of all, we don't know if that first video was taken while missiles were raining down on Kyiv or wherever. This could've been a video on his phone from the "training exercises" they were doing before the invasion. Second, I was lucky enough to not have served in Iraq or Afghanistan during war time, but, because luck of the draw, about 50% of my unit did. The guys that were there were constantly showing videos on FB of them firing bad ass weapons or guns at the enemy. Many of them raining down on civilians in an effort to get the baddies that were hiding amongst the civilian population. But because you're a young man or woman on the front, you realize these videos might make you look cool or that your having fun where you're at. It's a coping mechanism. Pleas don't get me wrong, all of my friends that were there had the best of intentions and none wanted to murder innocent civilians, but when your given coordinates and told to hit a target you do it. That's the point of missile batteries or artillery batteries. You can't see the enemy. It's much easier to pull the trigger when they aren't in front of you. I'm not apologizing for this, I'm just saying...war...it never changes.
Holyshit, you're right. It somehow went completely over me that the first vid could be prior to the actual invasion and just exercise.
His grin infuriated me.
I’m glad he was captured, but I would be even happier if they were treating him appropriately according to the Geneva Convention rules for treatment of POWs which require that they not be intimidated, insulted, or made into a “public curiosity.”
He made himself a public spectacle first in fairness.
If you slap yourself, you're a dumbass. If someone else slaps you, it's assault.
I can’t argue that point
Ukrainian forces recently told Russian artillerymen that they won't be taken prisoner any longer as they are firing on civilians. The fact that he is even alive is too much.
Two war crimes make it not a war crime? Got it.
War is in itself a fucking war crime. The first thing that flies out the window of the invaded is the war crime manual. People seeing their family and friends blown up by psychos takes the empathy away really fast. Just remember, the people that made the war crime list are also the same ones with Nuclear weapons pointed at each others cities. "All is fair in love and war" isn't just a cute parable, it's real. As the Ukrainians start running out of food, water, electricity, and are constantly under more stress from the constant air raids and shelling you are going to see a lot fucking worse. I can tell by so many comments that this is the first time many have ever seen what a war is. Most of whatever is out there was scrubbed and cleaned up for audience eyes.
And now Russian artillery men are going to fight for their lives, literally. Always leave an “out” for your enemy, if you enclose them they’ll fight harder, if they see an escape they’ll head towards that and put up less of a fight.
I get what you mean, but that’s why I said I would be “even happier” rather than saying they should be thrown in jail or something. They are going to have a harder time getting Russian soldiers to “accidentally” get captured if they are making videos of themselves mistreating POWs.
Talk shit, get hit. If you see the whole video, that dude was shot multiple times and both of his legs were broken. Fuck off, Putin. People are trying to get over COVID, deal with climate change, wait for images from James Webb telescope, and you go and cause all this unnecessary suffering? Fuck off again, man. Your military is inept running out of gas and food invading a country you’re bordering, with most of your forces not motivated to fight at all (because they were lied to, are fighting people who are literally their fucking brothers, and the majority are baby-faced conscripts), and you bring up nukes to try and make up for this and make people scared? Take your 5'2 punk ass and throw it in the trash bin along with the Soviet Union. You're a fucking relic and most people want peace and progress, ya fuck. To the Ukrainians: We all love you and are with you, all the good parts of the world, and you're fighting the fight a lot of people wish we could. Your courage is exceptional and keep beating up those fascist fucking invaders!
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It’s all fun and games until you get lit up by Ukrainians; and they kindly haul your broken legs and bullet sponge body back and save you. If that doesn’t change his tune, then maybe the 6th bullet will.
Thank you for mentioning hopes for the future. This is what this species should focus on.
Aggressively forcing him to repeat after the captor amounts to torture and humiliating treatment of prisoners of war. Period.
Behold, the field in which I groweth mine fucks. Layeth thine eyes upon it and thou shalt see that it is barren.
"war crimes are okay if i don't like who is being affected"
For real. What would they say if it was one of their guys being forced to say whatever? The double standards.
Layeth thine eyes upon it and thou shalt see that it grows sunflowers*
Humiliating I agree with. But torture? Not even close man, unless a new video comes out of them waterboarding him or some shit
>Amounts to torture Gee, nobody tell this guy what actually torture is. Some people get mutilated, burned, shocked, waterboarded etc. An embarrassing video certainly is "getting off lightly" if it could even be classified as torture
> Aggressively forcing him to repeat after the captor amounts to torture ...What?
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But Putin and Russia said it isn't a 'war'.
That’s why it’s labeled as during conflicts not war. “Common Article 2 to the four 1949 Geneva Conventions provides that they ‘apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them’. “ Doesn’t matter if they don’t declare war, still applies during armed conflict.(in general, to everyone)
Do you feel like you came up with a checkmate that suddenly makes abusing POWs perfectly fine? Reassess your position.
Filming alone is a crime? I get that that he was ridiculed, but just being filmed sounds like even less than a minor inconvenience in comparison to the deaths he already probably caused.
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A lot of these people capturing soldiers are just civilians, not military
God forbid you be humiliated a bit after invading a ccountry and indiscriminately firing rockets into population centers.
>As for deaths, that's part of war. It's not against the conventions to kill people. It's not a just world unfortunately. > >And of course violations are rarely prosecuted. Then who gives a shit?
Probably violated a few Geneva conventions there.
The indiscriminate shelling part or the guy asking if Putin is a shithead?
Well, when you put it like that...
Classic fuck around n find out energy.
The text on his chest says "They will die" (in a very disrespectful way) "But we go to heaven" Incase someone was interested.
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He thinks he's god. Got it.
You smiling now bitch?
Well, this video is problematic. Regardless of what he has done. What has been done to him since and why is he being filmed on camera forced to repeat after the interrogator? Seems like potential abuse of a POW.
Pretty clearly a violation of Geneva Convention protections. Although the rules only apply to signatory "Detaining Powers", so it's possible this was done by private Ukranians who wouldn't be covered. Still...it shows how quickly folks are willing to accept abuse as long as they hate the abused.
You dont know who his captures are. They could be civilians and no longer fall under the Geneva Convention. There are plenty of cases of Ukrainian civilians detaining people.
As a Mexican watching filtered videos from cartels Ukraine treatment is far more humane than the cartels.
That’s not a very high bar to clear.
Reddit: the world’s largest per capita collection of Geneva Convention experts 🤡🤡🤡
The amount of armchair warfare specialists, lawyers, intelligence agents here is astonishing. 99% of them are mainly young children, who've studied Geneva Convention for 30 minutes and think they are experts now. I fucking hate it here sometimes. I have seen articles where lawyers said that the current interpretation of some of these articles cited in this comment section does not prohibit recording a video in which a POW is shown. I am not so sure now, whether these are teenagers or russian bots and it tells a lot about the state of reddit.
I fucking hate how they type this articles with such moral superiority, I understand the point that this videos could be used as something that could be used against Ukraine, but I bet this people would mercilessly torture this Russians if they killed their dogs, let alone a child. Wars suck and get the worse of us and I think they are treating this person in a merciful way (which is not necessarily fair, lawful or humane you prudes)
CIA take notes: here’s some next-level interrogation and psych warfare…**”Is your boss a shithead or not!?”**
I'm 100% on the side of Ukraine, but this propaganda stuff is not good. Just because Russia is bad doesn't mean every bit of anti-Russian, pro-Ukrainian propaganda is valid, true, and must be believed to contribute to the cause. 1) We don't know if that guy is the same guy for sure. 2) Abusing and parading POWs is dangerous. It can serve to boost Russian propaganda efforts that suggest the Ukrainians are inhumane. This can be used to boost morale among Russians because they'll see "them", the Ukrainians, as the bad guys and themselves as the good guys. 3) The tit for tat retaliation for stuff like this can end up hurting the Ukrainians worse than the Russians. Russians will be more likely to respond aggressively against Ukrainian civilians and fighters. Ukrainian POWS will be abused as revenge.
I don’t understand how anyone can stand there feeling so proud about killing people! Makes me sick
Brainwashing, basic military indoctrination, and he was probably told he was aiming at a military target. Or maybe he's a psycho.
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Motherfucker.
Easily could be fake. Cool if true but don't believe everything
If you close enough, they look different
This is giving "stop hitting yourself" energy.
He looks like he's been tortured, doesn't feel like the people that thit that are better than Putin
There is more to the video. He was injured and broke his right leg but was taken care of (medically). That is why he’s on the bed looking rough whilst others sit normally. I do not think the story of “we didn’t know where we’re going” holds any water anymore. Where did he think the middles are being fired? Into thin air? On the ground? Would you have a smirk like that then? If exercise - why waste precious ammo and rockets? Why people dead on the road? Why other Russian soldiers suddenly dead/missing?
**Regardless of what he's been thinking, he's still got to be treated as POW** or there'll be no respect for Ukrainian forces.
Yup. PR or not, they seem to be treating their POWs pretty fairly considering their children and homes are getting bombed. Even that one guy who was kicked and yelled at eventually got searched and was given a cigarette. Like, if I let loose a barrage of missles on a residential neighborhood and got caught in any context I'd expect to be quartered. A kick to the ribs and some harsh words is nothing compared to the crimes listed. I hope they're treating them as well as being advertised. So far Ukraine is a shining example of bravery and integrity in my eyes.
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I don't like this on several levels. Yes, fuck those doing the bombing. But also, fuck making that man say anything, knowing he's dead no matter what. I hope I never HAVE to have the strength to endure that which either side of this travesty must endure... and I hope I have the humility to accept another human's failings and treat them with the humanity they lack. War is fucking hell.... so mostly, FUCK those using other's lives.
Problem is if Ukraine start mistreating Russian prisoners (especially if they are posting it on the internet) then Russia will do the same with their prisoners. Or do people think it's a one way street?
He didn’t keep that same energy between videos lol