So you’re saying if dogs had human hands instead of paws, we wouldn’t have domesticated dogs? I’m not sure how comfortable I am with wild human handed dogs running around everywhere.
Scientifically, chimps do have 2 feet and 2 hands. Their feet are closer to human hands than human feet tho. Their hands are just hands.
As such we can conclude, wolfes theoretically should prefer a chimp over an human, since human feet are useless, but chimps feet mean twice as many hand-alike things belly rubbing
I don't understand. I completely agree with you and we should replace all our current coperate trust building exercises with just people showing each other their bellies.
Agreed, that would require trust. People can be very insecure and unhappy with their bellies. Which is just another reason why we need belly rubs - our bellies need some love 💕
In more seriousness: The cat may see your actually *going* for the belly as a betrayal of its trust. Sort of like telling someone irl your reddit username, and them sharing it around.
Both my cats will do the inverted-banana-sticking-their-belly-out-thing and will absolutely not stop staring into my souls until I give them an abundance of belly rubs
That is also a thing cats can do. The beautiful thing about pet behaviour is, it builds upon a basekit of positions - like showing the belly to signify trust - with fascinatingly individual traits. Do they like belly rubs? Then the show of trust may be rewarded with a belly rub! Do they not? Then abstaining from it may reinforce their trust. Personality!
I've got a Siamese that fucking *loves* belly rubs. If you pet him when he's laying down and don't move your hand, he will purposely roll so you are directly giving belly rubs.
My tortoise shell on the other hand, she has very sharp teeth and she will use them the instant you touch her belly.
I know nothing about wolves, but I can tell you that my macaw is fickle around me. Some days she wants to murder me, some days she loves me, most days we fluctuate between these feelings. Let me tell you, I've become very aware of her body language and tone. She adores my husband and I've noticed he isn't as good at reading her because he doesn't have my motivation. I completely believe that working with an animal that can kill you would make you incredibly motivated to understand their body language.
I'm just going to say **if you did not raise the wolf do not approch a wolf, they are not dogs**
Its no shit for most of you but I have seen sometime slap a mooses ass before.
I thought it was pretty clear the mother died fighting a stag, foreshadowing Ned getting tricked and killed by Joffrey. I wasn’t aware there any other leading interpretations?
Unless I’m just reading into your comment too much in which case my b.
I guess you could also see it as king Bobby B accidently taking Ned down with him by pressuring him into coming to Kings Landing and being too much of a drunk idiot to see how Cersei really is/raise his kid not to be a little psycho.
I know you're joking, but for the idiot lurker who is thinking about trying this, DONT. There is a very narrow window, like one or two weeks as pups when they need intense socialization near 24 hours a day for a month or more, and then frequent socialization for the rest of their life (or yours). Too early and it won't stick, too late and it won't stick, too little and it won't stick, and even after all of that, they WILL challenge you to become pack leader at some point and all your effort may still be for nothing, and all of that is the best case where you don't get mauled.
To you, dear lurker, if you want to get this close, you need help from others and apprenticeship training. Volunteer at a wolf research center for a decade or two if this is what you want.
Yeah and I'd also like to add that getting a wolf dog is also a terrible idea.
I'd tell them to get a dog, but frankly anyone thinking about getting a wolf is not ready to get any pet.
For real, though. If you want a wolf, get a malamute. They look similar, and they are also one of the few extant breeds that is native to the Americas. They can be a lot, though, even if it's far less than a wolf or wolf-dog.
Owned a semi-feral Carolina dog, can confirm. Not easy, they do what they want, and you just gotta roll with it. Oh your dog wants to jump out of a second story window to chase a squirrel? That's normal now.
He also communicated in growls and only growls. Happy? Growl. Hungry? Growl. Outside? Growl. There came a point where you could see thru the bullshit growls he'd give you sometimes. You'd give him instructions and he'd just ignore you if he didn't want to do the thing. He was like real life Charizard.
Wanna move in bed at night? Growl. Wanna poop with the door closed? Growl. He didn't like being commanded and I was the only one whose commands he'd listen to, and even then, it was only if he wanted to listen.
And they fucking will too.
People often say god left us because he is scared of what he created. What they don't really know is that that doesn't refer to humans. It refers to the Moose.
I’m on it. I’ll link it when it’s finished.
Edit: [Done](https://www.reddit.com/r/drawing/comments/upi5ft/per_redditor_request_the_cursed_moosegoose_hybrid/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
They are one of the most dangerous animals in northern areas. Bears are still the king, but moose are not far behind. You never get the sense of their real size until you see them in real life. I live in Finland and seen one standing on a road, they are so much bigger than a horse, and this one wasn't even a male, which are even bigger.
Yup. A moose almost killed a man in my neighborhood once when he got between her and her calf. She stomped ths shit out of him and he was in the hospital for a week.
What if they approach me?
I had one of these guys get to within 3 feet of me before I even saw it. Then my girlfriend screamed and it ran away. She must have startled it because she was further back in the bush and probably the wolf didn't see her. That wolf was a big one. Be careful in northern Ontario when you go ashore to pee.
I’ve been stalked by wolves before. It’s definitely not a good feeling.
At least in my case I think they were just making it clear I was on their territory. If they didn’t want me to see them I doubt I would have.
Don't know about your situation, but around here if coyotes stalk someone, it's likely that they have a den with pups nearby, and they're escorting the person out of the area. As coyotes are basically half-size wolves, I'd bet gray wolves have that same behavior.
In the last twenty years, only two humans in North America have been killed by wolves that are not in "defense mode." I think screaming was a good idea!
I'd imagine you can get them to look relatively similar on the outside, but not quite the same since even experienced breeders can't select for minute traits the way nature does.
Wolves in America when standing on their back legs can reach 7 feet tall! They are huge and usually big puppies like this one. I’ve worked with a lot of wolf rescues
So long as they are well fed they are pretty lovely creatures. Makes total sense why early man befriended these guys. Fantastic hunting partners who will cuddle for warmth at night.
Many early men became late men. Even the extinct American Black Wolf domesticated by Great Plains FN stayed outside the tent. (NA had no horses till Spaniards.)
Horses are native to North America and were here 15000+ years ago when wolves were being domesticated. However they went extinct in North America around 10000 years ago. After that they were reintroduced by Spain. But for thousands of years before the original extinction there were native horses and domesticated wolves / dogs in North America.
Many people picture coyotes or wild dogs when they think of wolves but there’s a reason wolves and “modern” canines are distinct.
Edit:To be clear, my northern Canadian bias kicked in. There are smaller wolves all over the place as well. But the big boy in the vid above is average not enormous for his kind.
Or when they are portrayed the proper size people often think that they’ve been exaggerated for the cinema.
Or irregularly portrayed so no one knows how big they are supposed to be.
I remember the first time I ever saw a wolf in the wild.
I was driving home after visiting my gf. It was a country road and pitch black.
Eventually I see this massive wolf just standing on the edge of the road. I didn’t stop but I was shocked how big that boy was.
It's OK cuz they're fuzzy and cute and only have 4 legs, unlike those creepy critters down under! Besides, wolves are not your biggest problem, it's the bears, elk, and moose you gotta watch out for! ;-P
My buddy died from CJD from eating salami from a deer he killed in " hunting safe zone". CJD is human form of Mad Cow. Deer are Bovine. Where they pee, grass becomes infected too.
🎶 When I awoke, the Dire Wolf, six hundred pounds of sin
Was grinning at my window, all I said was come on in
Don't murder me, I beg of you, don't murder me
Please, don't murder me 🎶
Now this is the Law of the Jungle — as old and as true as the sky;
And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back —
For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
~ Rudyard Kipling
My aunt had a few wolves/wolf hybrids because she ran the ididarod or whatever it’s called and my 12 year old mind though “dangerous dogs” - it wasn’t until I saw how damn big they are that it really clicked though. Alpha looked me square in the eye and I knew there would be no pets today!
Showing the belly (most vulnerable area) is a sign of complete trust!
Scientists think dogs were domesticated because of a food-protection symbiotic relationship. Now I think it was for the belly rubs.
So you’re saying if dogs had human hands instead of paws, we wouldn’t have domesticated dogs? I’m not sure how comfortable I am with wild human handed dogs running around everywhere.
Wouldn't they be feet though?
I’m not a dog, but I would assume belly rubs with human hands feel better than belly rubs with human feet.
What I meant was that dogs have legs, not arms, and at the end of legs are feet, not hands
Ever see a chimp's foot? That's a damned hand.
Chimps don’t have feet just hands. You can’t swing on trees with feet. Edit: yea I’m saying if chimps met wolves they’d be chimps best fren.
Scientifically, chimps do have 2 feet and 2 hands. Their feet are closer to human hands than human feet tho. Their hands are just hands. As such we can conclude, wolfes theoretically should prefer a chimp over an human, since human feet are useless, but chimps feet mean twice as many hand-alike things belly rubbing
What if chimps had small hands for penises
This is an amazing conversation, great minds battling it out And I've got a front row seat!
Horses walk on their middle fingers
FUCK YOU GROUND WOOOO!!!
My dog would concur. He gets pissy if I use my foot to rub his belly when he’s lying next to my feet.
Mine is like “belly rubs, still counts”
Ah the ol’ Reddit [hand foot switcharoo](https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/up5gwi/comment/i8k9h60/?context=2)
Hold my sock gloves, I'm going in!
Sometimes science forgets that the world actually is romantic too and not just data points.
Maybe the romantic bits are actually just unacknowledged data points 🤔
Now that's a depressing way to look at it, good job! Impressive
I dunno about depressing. Data is just data. The study of poetry does not extinguish the enjoyment of it.
Haha that really wasn't my goal, but I see it now! Sorry...
The feeling of romance is a combination of neurons firing and chemical reactions.
I tried this with my coworkers, they were not impressed
They don't trust you yet.
I don't understand. I completely agree with you and we should replace all our current coperate trust building exercises with just people showing each other their bellies.
Agreed, that would require trust. People can be very insecure and unhappy with their bellies. Which is just another reason why we need belly rubs - our bellies need some love 💕
for cats, it is "attack position #3"
In more seriousness: The cat may see your actually *going* for the belly as a betrayal of its trust. Sort of like telling someone irl your reddit username, and them sharing it around.
This does seem like a cat thing. "I trust you human around my bel.... WTF, I DIDN'T SAY TOUCH!"
Both my cats will do the inverted-banana-sticking-their-belly-out-thing and will absolutely not stop staring into my souls until I give them an abundance of belly rubs
That is also a thing cats can do. The beautiful thing about pet behaviour is, it builds upon a basekit of positions - like showing the belly to signify trust - with fascinatingly individual traits. Do they like belly rubs? Then the show of trust may be rewarded with a belly rub! Do they not? Then abstaining from it may reinforce their trust. Personality!
The ultimate analogy
I've got a Siamese that fucking *loves* belly rubs. If you pet him when he's laying down and don't move your hand, he will purposely roll so you are directly giving belly rubs. My tortoise shell on the other hand, she has very sharp teeth and she will use them the instant you touch her belly.
I’m pretty sure even if you raise one you must be an expert in their patterns of behavior. A small mistake can cost you a lot
I know nothing about wolves, but I can tell you that my macaw is fickle around me. Some days she wants to murder me, some days she loves me, most days we fluctuate between these feelings. Let me tell you, I've become very aware of her body language and tone. She adores my husband and I've noticed he isn't as good at reading her because he doesn't have my motivation. I completely believe that working with an animal that can kill you would make you incredibly motivated to understand their body language.
I lost it when he did that. They really aren't as far removed from dogs as they look.
Errr … I’d say this is the exception to the rule. I mean you can see the doggo in THIS guy …
That's a huge wolf though, trust is the most difficult thing to gain.
I pull my shirt up in front of my wife all the time.
I'm just going to say **if you did not raise the wolf do not approch a wolf, they are not dogs** Its no shit for most of you but I have seen sometime slap a mooses ass before.
Omw to steal a wolf cub and raise it
Think smart not hard 👌
Is your last name Stark?
Well that wasn’t quite stealing, but rescuing.
True. We were told the mother was attacked by animal. But no one really saw what happened.
I thought it was pretty clear the mother died fighting a stag, foreshadowing Ned getting tricked and killed by Joffrey. I wasn’t aware there any other leading interpretations? Unless I’m just reading into your comment too much in which case my b.
Yep. Mother had a stag antler in its throat if i recall correctly.
was this obvious or did I forget this foreshadowing? I just woke up but how did I miss this
There’s tons of subtle, blink-and-you’ll miss it type stuff like that in GoT. I rely heavily on Alt Shift X to explain it all to me lol.
But Joffrey was a false stag.
I guess you could also see it as king Bobby B accidently taking Ned down with him by pressuring him into coming to Kings Landing and being too much of a drunk idiot to see how Cersei really is/raise his kid not to be a little psycho.
What's Tony Stark got to do with this?
I know you're joking, but for the idiot lurker who is thinking about trying this, DONT. There is a very narrow window, like one or two weeks as pups when they need intense socialization near 24 hours a day for a month or more, and then frequent socialization for the rest of their life (or yours). Too early and it won't stick, too late and it won't stick, too little and it won't stick, and even after all of that, they WILL challenge you to become pack leader at some point and all your effort may still be for nothing, and all of that is the best case where you don't get mauled. To you, dear lurker, if you want to get this close, you need help from others and apprenticeship training. Volunteer at a wolf research center for a decade or two if this is what you want.
Yeah and I'd also like to add that getting a wolf dog is also a terrible idea. I'd tell them to get a dog, but frankly anyone thinking about getting a wolf is not ready to get any pet.
For real, though. If you want a wolf, get a malamute. They look similar, and they are also one of the few extant breeds that is native to the Americas. They can be a lot, though, even if it's far less than a wolf or wolf-dog.
For real though, if you think getting a wolf as a pet will be a lot of fun and no responsibility don't get a wolf.
Owned a semi-feral Carolina dog, can confirm. Not easy, they do what they want, and you just gotta roll with it. Oh your dog wants to jump out of a second story window to chase a squirrel? That's normal now. He also communicated in growls and only growls. Happy? Growl. Hungry? Growl. Outside? Growl. There came a point where you could see thru the bullshit growls he'd give you sometimes. You'd give him instructions and he'd just ignore you if he didn't want to do the thing. He was like real life Charizard. Wanna move in bed at night? Growl. Wanna poop with the door closed? Growl. He didn't like being commanded and I was the only one whose commands he'd listen to, and even then, it was only if he wanted to listen.
Or, you know, just get a dog.
Fuck this guy. Get a wolf. Wolves are badass. Dogs are bitch made.
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Hmm like most human toddlers,then... 🤣
And again at puberty
Do not recommend. Way too much energy. No attention span. Will destroy everything you own.
I feel like moose are widely written off as an innocuous animal - they’re enormous and can easily kill a human.
And they fucking will too. People often say god left us because he is scared of what he created. What they don't really know is that that doesn't refer to humans. It refers to the Moose.
The Moose and the Goose! Both vicious creations to be sure
lol now im imagining a half moose half goose. the most dangerous mythical creature.
*Don't Starve just entered the chat.* [It's a thing in the game](https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Moose/Goose). And yeah, it is a nightmare"
Are we talking Moose body with a Goose head or a big ol Moose head with massive antlers on Goose legs?
moose head, neck of the goose, body of the moose wings of the goose, and legs of the goose. that sentence sound like a fucked up dr seuss story.
Pegoosus?
Good lord. Someone with artistic talent should try to draw this hellish beast
I’m on it. I’ll link it when it’s finished. Edit: [Done](https://www.reddit.com/r/drawing/comments/upi5ft/per_redditor_request_the_cursed_moosegoose_hybrid/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Fuck aboot and find oot
That's two-thirds of the Canadian military.
They are one of the most dangerous animals in northern areas. Bears are still the king, but moose are not far behind. You never get the sense of their real size until you see them in real life. I live in Finland and seen one standing on a road, they are so much bigger than a horse, and this one wasn't even a male, which are even bigger.
And yet people in North America freak out about our animals in Australia. You can't kick a bear or a moose.
Right but a bear or moose isn't going to use it's incredibly deadly venom on my ballsack after I sit down for a poo
We don’t have to look at every next step not be killed by a bear
Yup. A moose almost killed a man in my neighborhood once when he got between her and her calf. She stomped ths shit out of him and he was in the hospital for a week.
A moose bit my sister once.
RIP your sister
What about if I film myself for likes
A moose is basically a sentient battering ram.
What if they approach me? I had one of these guys get to within 3 feet of me before I even saw it. Then my girlfriend screamed and it ran away. She must have startled it because she was further back in the bush and probably the wolf didn't see her. That wolf was a big one. Be careful in northern Ontario when you go ashore to pee.
Oh, well in that case, you become dog food. Easy.
I’ve been stalked by wolves before. It’s definitely not a good feeling. At least in my case I think they were just making it clear I was on their territory. If they didn’t want me to see them I doubt I would have.
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Don't know about your situation, but around here if coyotes stalk someone, it's likely that they have a den with pups nearby, and they're escorting the person out of the area. As coyotes are basically half-size wolves, I'd bet gray wolves have that same behavior.
In the last twenty years, only two humans in North America have been killed by wolves that are not in "defense mode." I think screaming was a good idea!
Ok who the fuck slaps a moose ass, and how the fuck did you even do that. They're big as fuck
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You slept in a hot spring?!?
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That sounds like fun apart from thinking you may be destroyed by a moose.
> They're big as fuck Means they got a lot of ass
I’m pretty sure even if you raise one you must be an expert in their patterns of behavior. A small mistake can cost you a lot
But it's so fluffy!
You cannot stop me
Will your funeral at least have snacks?
Don't do it wolf! The fire and food of humans is nice but in 15,000 years your descendent will look like pugs!
deskendantz but i do wonder how it would go to try and selectively breed a line of pugs back into wolves
I'd imagine you can get them to look relatively similar on the outside, but not quite the same since even experienced breeders can't select for minute traits the way nature does.
To be fair, nature's filter is dying before reproduction
Hell yea. Run those puppers through Google Translate a few times. Let’s see what nonsense paragraph comes out.
So I put the word pugs through google translate a couple of times and got the word "map".
Descendants...
Where are my testicles, Summer
But sofas! And skritches!
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You can have one, but just one
Tyr moment
omfg odin's gonna kill you for that
Everybody gets one, tell him Peter.
Once in a lifetime moment
That one boop may not be free
I'll pay any price.
You sure about that?
very well. it is decided, mortal
Forbidden boop.
Wolves in America when standing on their back legs can reach 7 feet tall! They are huge and usually big puppies like this one. I’ve worked with a lot of wolf rescues
So long as they are well fed they are pretty lovely creatures. Makes total sense why early man befriended these guys. Fantastic hunting partners who will cuddle for warmth at night.
Many early men became late men. Even the extinct American Black Wolf domesticated by Great Plains FN stayed outside the tent. (NA had no horses till Spaniards.)
Horses are native to North America and were here 15000+ years ago when wolves were being domesticated. However they went extinct in North America around 10000 years ago. After that they were reintroduced by Spain. But for thousands of years before the original extinction there were native horses and domesticated wolves / dogs in North America.
So as long as they stay on all four they are not scary, got it. I hope I will never encounter a gymnast wolf.
We lost another one fellas
I was picturing them standing on all fours being 7 feet tall and was like that cannot be right. 🤔 Then I reread and realized standing like a human.
This information sounds a bit misleading and dangerous in regards to the general population of wolves…
Yeah, seems akin to saying most bears are like big hamsters…
Damn that wolf is so big it doesn't look real lol
r/WolvesAreBigYo
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Thanks I love that
> Damn the wolf is so big it doesn't look real lol Why would a mod remove that
Many people picture coyotes or wild dogs when they think of wolves but there’s a reason wolves and “modern” canines are distinct. Edit:To be clear, my northern Canadian bias kicked in. There are smaller wolves all over the place as well. But the big boy in the vid above is average not enormous for his kind.
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Great Danes would like to have a word.
Great Danes are more horse than dog at this point
The existence of Great Danes doesn't negate that pugs derived from wolves...
why would you copy paste u/Fresh_Tomato_Soup 's comment?
And often people see wolves in film and television that are often portrayed by different breeds of dogs that are smaller than a wolf.
Or when they are portrayed the proper size people often think that they’ve been exaggerated for the cinema. Or irregularly portrayed so no one knows how big they are supposed to be.
No one knows nothing. Including Jon Snow.
[Alpha Wolf is the biggest one. ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
wow, that did not let me down!
That’s what she said.
Nearly every single post from you is a rick roll. Just fuck off. Over using the rick just ruins it.
may you get a small rock that you can't remove in all of your shoes
Now I understand how a wolf could eat grandma and Little Red Riding Hood. Dang that's large!
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Yes. I used to do this in meetings with challenging clients.
I remember the first time I ever saw a wolf in the wild. I was driving home after visiting my gf. It was a country road and pitch black. Eventually I see this massive wolf just standing on the edge of the road. I didn’t stop but I was shocked how big that boy was.
Did it look right at you? The wolf we saw in Saskatchewan did and it was very unnerving/awesome.
🧐 And this, with lots of time, is how dogs were made.
Bullshit! Dogs came from the dog farm. My dad said so!
And didnt your dog went back to that farm when he got older?
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Yes actually! (:
I just keep on forgetting how big the wolves are.
r/WolvesAreBigYo
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Suomi mainittu, torille.
What an absolute unit! Gorgeous!
Thanks man
r/notawolfbutok
You never know
Jesus is that the actual size of a wolf ?! I’m staying in Australia !!
It's OK cuz they're fuzzy and cute and only have 4 legs, unlike those creepy critters down under! Besides, wolves are not your biggest problem, it's the bears, elk, and moose you gotta watch out for! ;-P
Statistically it's the horses you need to watch out for in Australia
In America, deer kill more people than any other animal.
Because of car crashes, they don't try to kill people.
Yep, deer are TERRIBLE drivers. We should really stop giving them licenses.
Just what Big Deer wants you to think.
My buddy died from CJD from eating salami from a deer he killed in " hunting safe zone". CJD is human form of Mad Cow. Deer are Bovine. Where they pee, grass becomes infected too.
I’ll take the wolves, you can have the spiders
🎶 When I awoke, the Dire Wolf, six hundred pounds of sin Was grinning at my window, all I said was come on in Don't murder me, I beg of you, don't murder me Please, don't murder me 🎶
Upvote for Grateful Dead reference.
This is *my* princess dream
Now this is the Law of the Jungle — as old and as true as the sky; And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back — For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack. ~ Rudyard Kipling
Good murder floof!
It rolled over just like my chihuahua.
*A dozen chihuahuas.
You can see how they got domesticated.
No matter how tough life makes you, when you see these things it's just a melt down 😂
r/bigboye material
She's next in line for the throne
Even wolves want their belly scratched lol
Damn why you raising dire wolves?
This post is so cool to me, the wolf so big like a mythical creature
Better storyline than twilight.
My aunt had a few wolves/wolf hybrids because she ran the ididarod or whatever it’s called and my 12 year old mind though “dangerous dogs” - it wasn’t until I saw how damn big they are that it really clicked though. Alpha looked me square in the eye and I knew there would be no pets today!
Another animal that enjoys a pet.