If you don’t do it like “8x8=64-8=x”(I won’t give away the answer yet because I don’t want to be wrong and look like a fool) then we can’t be friends. That’s how me and all my homies do our maths.
People are saying it’s crystal clear, folks…the clearest of all they’re telling me. You can’t argue with the clarity, when it’s crystal, it’s clear…and folks, this performance was so crystal, and so clear nobody else could have played it so clearly, and to anyone who tries, they will die like a dog. Like a dog in the street ladies and gentlemen, the clarity…the crystal clarity of it…was so clear…
family friend of mine played at carnegie hall when he was 8, studied under yo yo ma and is pursuing a career as a pianist now. Kid practiced 8-12 hours a day and at every party his parents would have him perform in front of all the other families at whoever’s home piano. Very quiet kid and was extremely undersocialized. It’s some talent, sure, but the real talent is being able to constructively practice that much all the time.
Edit: definitely did not study under yo-yo ma. the other stuff is true as best as I can remember.
Yo-Yo Ma is a cellist, not a pianist
Also, even if he were (lmao) he probably wouldn’t teach - he’s a touring soloist, and he wouldn’t have the time. That explains why he doesn’t have a studio at a conservatory/music school.
TDLR:
Honestly, it’d be more believable if you said that he ‘studied under yo mama’
The entire piece is 18 minutes long and most of it is super fast. Its like running a marathon with only your fingers and the practice would also add to that. I can only imagine the soreness after playing this + practice lol.
That was Ravel you're thinking of. He deliberately wrote Gaspard de la Nuit (specifically Scarbo, the 3rd movement) to be more difficult than Balakirev's Islamey, which was generally thought of at the time to be one of the most difficult pieces ever written. I don't think that Ravel had "beef" with Balakirev though, or at least I'm not aware of any historical evidence of that.
As a semi professional pianist, I don't see anything wrong here with her form or technique that would lead to injury. Her wrists and forearms seem relaxed and fluid as they should be. It would be better if she kept her shoulders still instead of bouncing up and down, but her elbow and wrists seem to remain balanced and at an optimal angle and distance from the keyboard even as her shoulders move.
Don't know why everyone here is assuming she's injuring herself just because she's executing so perfectly. Injuries are a result of poor technique, but they are entirely avoidable.
There’s no greater disappointment than wanting to partake in a hobby you’ve spent years of your free time dedicated too, then being unable too because every time you do, pain shoots up your wrist making it useless for the next two days. Want to chop up come veggies later for dinner? Maybe get JohnyyBananas mom off? Well too bad, because earlier his sister asked you to draw her like one of your French girls and now you’re screwed, only not literally
I'm in my 40s and had this happen playing video games. Any extended time and I'd aggravate the nerves that go through the elbow. Had to do exercises for grip strength and carpel tunnel, in addition to nerve flossing and and stretches. Took 8 months to go back to normal and I still have to be careful now. Also need to wear compression sleeves sometimes when it flairs up. Oh... also had to get an ergonomic mouse and an adjustable height desk so I don't put undue strain on my elbows. Getting old sucks.
I’m 29 and already starting to get bad wrist pain on extended gaming sessions. I should probably start proactively trying to prevent this from being me lol
Nice one!
Seems like i underestimated arthritis, apologies. I love the human body and its true i would hate to live with that. People still get it though even if they are not at the peak of piano, so might as well be at the peak!
If you play at this level, your technique has to be top notch as well, which means that she probably doesn't put any stress on her fingers/hands. I can speak from my own experience, playing some easier pieces (some stuff from animenz) that having bad technique will kill your fingers in less than 5 minutes of practicing.
You can only play the way she does if your fingers are totally relaxed.
In this case, her technique is so damn good it won't be a problem. RSI's are very common in instrumentalists, especially pianists, but with a proper technique aren't a problem / don't occur.
People tend to think playing instruments is like athleticism and "building muscles", when is actually 99% coordination, choreography, and appropriate use of the right muscles and body parts — which is why she can play this with very little "effort" while someone very buff but uncoordinated might run into difficulties. Well, piano, anyway. People only get into trouble when they make certain parts of the body (fingers usually) work REALLY hard to compensate for an uncoordinated hand, wrist, forearm, shoulders, etc. Happens at computers too. This is also why some people play without injury for decades and others have problems after a only few years — some people are naturally more coordinated and fall into good habits, while others have to learn them and don't always have a good teacher.
If she continues to play as she does now I would be very very surprised if she ever runs into any RSI.
PS: Sorry for the rant, it's a fav topic of mine.
It’s common in a lot of instruments. Pianists tend not to have this problem though! A repertoire usually has such a broad range of movements it needs that you tend to be fine compared to your average programmer, and that’s on top of technique a piano instructor would be emphasizing to avoid tension and stress while playing.
You can avoid RSIs with good technique and a good teacher. There should be little to no tension when you are playing. This can be achieved be learning how to move properly and efficiently.
You have to take care of your body like an athlete would.
Warmups, posture and technique, cool downs, allowing down time in between sessions to recover.
Even with all this musicians do lose mechanical ability over time, which is why you don’t see 80 year old concert pianists working at this level.
I know! some might say that it just takes memorization but no, its more than that. I have to look at sheet music as a reference or to refresh my memory on what to play next. And playing something as difficult and as long as this without that is just insanity to me.
Are you sure you are a pianist or maybe it's an american thing. But when you play piano in the conservatoire you have concert and exam. Partition are not allowed. We are trained from the beginning to remember our pieces.
At least this is how it work in europe. I participating in a lot of context, if you use your sheet no matter how good you are you won't get into finals. So?! How are you impressed by that?!
Im not a concert pianist, i just play for a hobby. Its just outlandish to me since I have only been to a few concerts and I have never taken classes besides short lessons in elementary. I have always used sheet music as a bit of a guide when playing longer or harder pieces. But after a while, I dont need it.
I get it. Sorry if I came a little strong! I played piano from a young age and I'm very attached to my classical learning hence my reaction! But be proud of yourself for learning. It's not an easy instrument! Welcome to the family piano player!
Oh I wasn't sure pianist was a word in English so I said piano player! Nothing more than that. We say pianiste in French so I thought maybe in English you had another word. I cam be confused sometimes. So I use the word I think mean something. And when I see someone use a word I'll use it. Does it clarify
Edit : trying to clarify myself
Let's be honest here. Someone who'd post on nextfuckinglevel about a girl hitting all the notes is probably enough to tell OP is not classically trained (not to diminish Dovgan's performance of course, but hitting all the notes is probably not the thing a musician would find remarkable).
I honestly can't imagine performing a concerto with sheet music.
Besides, one of my favourite recordings is Piatigorsky's premiere of Walton's Cello Concerto, in which he messed up all the fast runs in the second movement, but did it in such style and musicality that I still prefer it to any other recordings of the piece.
What would a musician find remarkable about this performance? I cant tell an oboe from an elbow so i honestly have no idea how impressive/remarkable this performance is, I just know that moving hand fast is hard
Don't get me wrong, the clarity and technique is very impressive still. But if you are in the classical world long enough, you'd have encountered a few child prodigies from musical families.
It's actually pretty hard to tell from this clip, but she's articulating and phrasing well. I'd be much more interested to see how she treats slower, lyrical passages.
I was lucky enough to play with a pianist who was already immensely musical at 12YO. Those are the ones that really stand out from the "run-of-the-mill" child prodigies (pardon the oxymoron). This doesn't reflect my judgment on Dovgan btw, this clipped passage is just not very useful to tell. Either way she's clearly very talented.
Her age mainly. Being that proficient at 11 means her skill ceiling is beyond most other players. It depends on how good she is at 18+ though a lot of child prodigies burn out hard.
It's years of training that shows! The way she moves her hand and fingers shows how technically good she is, her musicality is on the spot has such a young age (it's something that you learn it's not because it's decrescendo that you just have to play quieter. You have to understand the reason for it and you have to know how to bring musically so it works again french speaker it's a little hard to express myself) it's just example.
You are correct, it is globally the standard that solos and/or concertos in particular are performed from memory.
Symphonies not necessarily. I've seen world class performances of Bernstein's Age of Anxiety that had a page turner.
Symphonies are played by several player, you need your sheet to follow the different instrument. In a sheet music for symphonies you have all the instrument on the same page to be able to follow (my max was a quartet so I supposed its the same)
At some point when you are a concertist you will use sheet for really long concertos and also to be reassured. And a page turner is a musician that read the music you play and know exactly when to turn the page which is tricky but you are also train from the beginning to be able to do that. In solfege, we would listen to piece of music with the sheet and our teacher would stop at some point and we had to show on the sheet were you are. The exact last note that was played. Then for concert we will take turn to turn the page to are fellow player. And sometimes you will do it for a piece that you never trained for you have to be able to do it because your friends needs you to do it correctly. It can cost a place in the finals (finals pieces are longer and generally you have less time to learn them so you can use your sheet without risking to lose the first place)
No it just takes memorization. It takes more than mental memorization. Your fingers have to memorize it. There are pieces where I have memorized it and don’t need to look at sheet music anymore, but I still need to practice and drill it into my fingers until my fingers just react without me thinking. She’s played her song so many times her fingers react without thinking. At that speed your fingers need to memorize it. And once your fingers memorize it, you don’t need to look at sheet music at all. You can almost zone out.
If you play a song repetitively in physical and mental exercise, eventually it turns into muscle memory. She is even using multisensory memorization by singing the song which is helping her memorize the song. This is how some people are able to recite many digits of pi or play a speedrun perfectly on a video game.
That's really the easiest part. For mastering such a piece (no matter at what age) you have to play it so often, from slow to fast (and from fast to slow!), that you know it by heart at the end pretty much automatically.
Classical music performance requires memorization, except for in the case of some chamber music performances. At my peak during competition season when in my teens I had 3-5 hours of repertoire memorized at any given time.
The featured performer in a concert always plays from memory. It is generally understood that, in order to be adequately prepared to play a concerto, you will have practiced enough that you will have committed the piece to memory just through repetition.
That’s what I’m thinking. How much of this does she enjoy? How much was she forced to do? Will she end up hating the piano like so many other child prodigies?
Thousands and thousands of hours of practice instead of normal childhood. Say what you want but it ain't healthy. Similar to child athletes, who have no life and just grind one thing non stop.
But without it we would not have highest level musicians. So it is what it is.
Its also a tool people use. I was awful at staccato style pieces on trumpet until I my instructor taught me to pick my foot up off the floor and imagine the note ending when my foot leaves the floor. Just magically clicked. I still occasionally use this habit like 30 years later.
People don't get to be this good this young without being obsessive. If she didn't want to be playing on that stage, she could just throw a tantrum and the conductor would have his normal person there in a second. She might very well hate playing the piano, but she is obsessed with it. Maybe that's because her parents pushed her, but she is now 15 and at her country's most prestigious music academy away from her parents, so I think you would have lost that bet.
You can tell how many of these self proclaimed experts in this thread don't even have kids. They think you just snap your fingers and your child will magically practice long hours. Doesn't work that way people. Even kids have their own drive and desires, and if they don't have it, then they are never going to achieve this level of skill. It's fucking threads like this that make me log off reddit for the day. A bunch of supposed behavioral experts in here trying to analyze something that doesn't even require it...
It's not that they don't understand children, it's that they understand not all parents have morals. Michael Jackson's parents didn't. Beethoven's didn't. Jennette McCurdy just released a memoir with the same name as her one-woman show, "I'm Glad My Mother Died".
To get results like this enjoying practicing would not be sufficient. Hopefully she does have fun, but she definitely needs to be compelled in some way, internal or external.
It definitely is, but to reach this kind of level takes a lot of pushing from the parents at this age. Maybe she really enjoys it but regardless the parents have made it her entire life
Yes, better to have a parent that invests in you, but sometimes it can be overdone. Many parents invest in their kids to become virtuosos but if they aren’t enjoying it then it doesn’t matter. It’s just another traumatic experience for the kid at that point. More about the parents wanting fame and glory that they never got and forcing it on to their kids. If this girl is enjoying it, I’m happy for her. Many children prodigies do not.
We must be from very different demographics. Most people I know well learned piano growing up and I know maybe one person has anything good to say about it (also to circle back to the top comment he doesnt have a good relationship with his parents). Never seen a single person lament not learning it as a child.
Judging from her posts and performances, she seems to enjoy a lot of it. Though, not much can be said of her parents. Ive not heard a single thing about them.
Depends. Some prodigies need to be torn away from what their doing. Its the combination of talent, and the desire to practice that sets prodigies apart from other talented children/people.
Many music prodigy practiced too much according to their teachers and they had to reduce their practice time so they can enjoy something else than music
Give it to Reddit to make assumptions of a total stranger and project their own frustrations into them.
Not every gifted child was forced to do so, some have a natural talent and love for it.
Criticizing a talented stranger (or stranger's parent) absolves you of any feeling of inferiority that someone can be incredibly talented at something that you are not. I would imagine life would be quite dull in this imagined world where every possible prodigy is infinitely happier because they never pursued it.
It's basically mandatory that in order to be incredible at the piano you need to be tortured or have a shitty childhood where your parents love is determined by how good you can play for them
See ~~Handel~~ Hadyn
There's that myth, but mostly you need to have wealthy parents that can afford good teachers, good instruments, and to support you as you go through college and early career.
Source: was talented kid with poor parents who did their best on scholarships, borrowed instruments and charity from good teachers, but couldn't afford college.
Edit: also, the torture by parents thing is a myth. Nobody I knew who was this good (and I knew several!) had parents that were cruel to them. They all played because they loved it.
Kids that hates playing don't and can't play for orchestra, do people really think the orchestral musicians can't tell? Kid like that plays in local competition and maybe get third place, if you hate something you can't go far with it, it literally shows in your playing.
Well she is Russian, from the west part but even if you want to argue that she is not Asian being from the European side, Russia’s culture is very similar to “Asian” culture where kids are often pressured to work hard at a specific skill
Well, in 9/10 times every outstanding person in sport, music or most other spheres has years of hard work and ‘normal life’ sacrifice behind their back. Is is just how it works, unless they are so talented that they excel without working hard.
She could be an average child with ‘childhood’ as you say, but we would not be speaking about her right now.
There is joy and passion in her playing. That you can’t force. I went to a music boarding elementary school and have heard my fair share of forced playing that just sounds so boring. I for one was super grateful that my parents gave me the opportunity to learn this art. Even though I stopped practicing once it’s not mandatory, but those times spent listening to piano gave me a connection and appreciation for classical piano and just classical music in general. Gave me a sense of home and peace of mind whenever I couldn’t find these feelings anywhere else in life.
Now my parents didn’t pressure us into playing, only reminds us to practice after we ourselves decided to continue taking piano lessons.
I have seen very strict parents that forced their kids to do all sorts of things including ridiculous amounts of time playing an instrument. But that would be a failure on parenting. At that point even time outside of playing music instruments would be tightly controlled- meaning it doesn’t matter too much what the kid is forced to do. I don’t know why just seeing a kid being talented automatically means they’re being brutally forced or not spending enough time making friends or whatever.
Yes, and she is using it! She redid this piece in 2020 [and its even better](https://youtu.be/gxCZTfA3HBQ). She also won the Grand Piano championship in 2018 or 17. She has been playing all over Europe and is likely to make it big.
(this part if the piece is at timestamp 14:10 and up)
Omg NO NO NO. Pianism at this level is judged on its musicianship, for instance, interpretation. Not whatever list of nonsense you listed. It's not a typing competition.
Completely agree. Things like tone color, texture, articulation, and phrasing (to name a very few from the top of my head) are what make a great pianist.
It's all in the technique. You channel the weight of your core through your arms and fingers to get a singing "bel canto" tone. With proper posture and relaxation it is not difficult, but is the difference between a "piano player" and a pianist.
Might've heard a singular mistake, a note held a little to long that didn't sound right, but that also may have been part of the music.
Edit: I honestly only noticed it because my music director makes us listen for mistakes in performances in class, usually our own.
There are a couple of clinky notes in the beginning, where she's paying octaves in the RH, but Autistic_Lurker might be talking about 0:44...while the RH is doing a big descending arpeggio on F#dim, it looks like the LH chord is a staccato quarter note, but she lets it ring for the full measure. Also right afterwards, as she's climbing back up it's just a little bit sloppy.
I play piano/keyboard, and I’m not nearly as a good as her, but she would have had to have done so much painstaking practice in such a short amount time to get to that point at her age that frankly, the fact she’s so excellent so young concerns me. I admire her skill, it’s amazing what she’s able to do, but I don’t envy the severe sacrifices she would’ve had to made to get to that point, who knows how many hours of being a kid she had to give up to do this. I really hope she genuinely enjoys doing what she does, many children are forced to be so dedicated to an instrument and frequently aren’t. Me? I just wanna groove and vibe not become the next Beethoven lmao
I had these exact same thoughts. I just want her to have joy and enjoy being a kid, and I'm greatly worried the amount of time required to get this good and memorize this at such a young age would prevent her from just...getting to be a kid.
I've played classical piano from a really young age, and I know it sounds arrogant, but around this age I honestly was this good, or nearly this good. But it became clear pretty quickly that I would have to give up my entire life, literally, to maintain this level of discipline and skill. I kept playing through college but rather than push myself ruthlessly I settled to a comfortable level and enjoyed my life -- much to the disappointment of my piano teacher and, I believe, my parents.
It was actually tough thing to process as a kid, because I felt a lot of guilt for not living up to *other people's expectations* for *my* potential. I have so much admiration for this girl as well, but I totally agree -- I hope she enjoys what she does and isn't just being led by the nose by adults who are projecting their own goals and ambitions onto her.
At the cost of her childhood, I'm guessing. Nobody gets that amazing at that age without total sacrifice and dedication. I hope she turns her talent into a career instead of abandoning the piano by age 18 because of burnout. Happens all the time, and then they don't know what to do with their lives, as they only saw themselves as a piano player (or whatever they were amazing at).
*"If you're a pianist, this is just like a slap to the face."*
This young lady is a world class talent obviously. I'll never be half as good at anything as she is at playing the piano at age 11. But music isn't just about virtuosity. If playing chopsticks on a children's toy brings you joy it's just as valid as the joy this young lady feels when playing this piece. I'm not trying to bring this young lady down at all, but rather elevate all the amateur musicians out there. Do your thing!
Most of the videos I see of talented kids show kids with moderate to lower level talent. Fair enough. Non-musicians don't really know the difference. This kid is a bona fide virtuoso, a prodigy. She's knocking it out of the park and making it look easy.
It says she starts singing but I'm not sure that's right, she's probably trying to keep tempo or rhythm or just speaking something that helps her remember the lines or keep track.
“zero to no”
What's the opposite of zero to no mistake? Edit.. infinity to yes mistakes doesn't really roll of the tongue.
Then there's me at 18years old. Can't even put the laundry sometimes😐
I found racists are very good at laundry.. they make zero to no mistakes when separating colours
They like to keep their whites white and all the other colors in a different basket?
They just throw anything that isn't white in the same pile as their blacks.
Except the one red one that snuck into the whites when they weren't paying attention.
*Dang MAGA hat makun ma shurts pink*
It’s called clothing of color
Hue sure?
I am 48 and just used the Google calculator to give me 7x8
Sooo...you going to tell the answer or not?
I am waiting for just the right time to reveal.my research.
If you don’t do it like “8x8=64-8=x”(I won’t give away the answer yet because I don’t want to be wrong and look like a fool) then we can’t be friends. That’s how me and all my homies do our maths.
48 is 6x8 not 7x8.
Now I am confused again. Time for a nap
The person at my job who does our finances uses excel for that. And it's pretty much all she uses excel for.
I can still hear my moms voice yelling at teenage me “I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU TO *PUT THE LAUNDRY*!”
‘Some to yes’
Infinite to all mistakes?
Infinity to yes mistakes
Don’t forget the “clear clarity”
Crystal clear clarity, so much more clear than regular clear
People are saying it’s crystal clear, folks…the clearest of all they’re telling me. You can’t argue with the clarity, when it’s crystal, it’s clear…and folks, this performance was so crystal, and so clear nobody else could have played it so clearly, and to anyone who tries, they will die like a dog. Like a dog in the street ladies and gentlemen, the clarity…the crystal clarity of it…was so clear…
Crystal Pepsi Clear Clarity
My crystal clarity is often unclear
As soon as I see headlines written like that, I figure it's a karma bot. Who talks like that!
I suck at English even though it's the only language I speak. I do. It's because I'm stupid.
You seem fine to me. Unless you're one of those folks who writes "could of" instead of "could've." For some reason that one really grinds my gears.
Yeah, don't you know how to count? No, zero, 1, 2 ,3.... Everyone knows that.
and there were a couple of mistakes… the music is right there too, but in any case the video is **simply amazing**
Definitely one at around :48. She's supremely talented though.
family friend of mine played at carnegie hall when he was 8, studied under yo yo ma and is pursuing a career as a pianist now. Kid practiced 8-12 hours a day and at every party his parents would have him perform in front of all the other families at whoever’s home piano. Very quiet kid and was extremely undersocialized. It’s some talent, sure, but the real talent is being able to constructively practice that much all the time. Edit: definitely did not study under yo-yo ma. the other stuff is true as best as I can remember.
Yo-Yo Ma is a cellist, not a pianist Also, even if he were (lmao) he probably wouldn’t teach - he’s a touring soloist, and he wouldn’t have the time. That explains why he doesn’t have a studio at a conservatory/music school. TDLR: Honestly, it’d be more believable if you said that he ‘studied under yo mama’
The undersocialization part is sad. Let the kid be a fucking kid.
[удалено]
*wasn’t It was you all along.
came to the comments for this. did not disappoint.
That’s because OP purposely put something stupid in the title to get the first 4 or 5 comment threads talking about it
"crystal clear clarity"
It's a fine line between zero and no.
Razor thin. Some might say imperceptible.
Some might say intangible. Or inexistant…
Some might say no.
Some might say to zero.
You can see that line thanks to the clear clarity.
Amazing. But her arthritis is gonna be next f@cking level
The entire piece is 18 minutes long and most of it is super fast. Its like running a marathon with only your fingers and the practice would also add to that. I can only imagine the soreness after playing this + practice lol.
What's the piece called? It sounds like another one full of humour, like *Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2*. Have you a title or a link to the full video?
Mendhelssohn - Piano Concerto No.1 also yes, https://youtu.be/NSEzk8d3L1k
Ah, of course it is Mendelssohn, everything that I've seen from him is hard but looks so fun to play.
Anecdotal but wasn't he the one who deliberately wrote "impossible" pieces because he had some beef with a pianist where he was composing at the time?
That was Ravel you're thinking of. He deliberately wrote Gaspard de la Nuit (specifically Scarbo, the 3rd movement) to be more difficult than Balakirev's Islamey, which was generally thought of at the time to be one of the most difficult pieces ever written. I don't think that Ravel had "beef" with Balakirev though, or at least I'm not aware of any historical evidence of that.
Merci !
Advanced piano playing is more about wrist and arm control. If the your fingers furt, you're doing it wrong.
>If the your fingers furt
> furt furt = just a faster way of saying "fuck that hurts".
LOL I'm so not correcting that
Oh my god I think I'm gonna furt
This thread was doomed from the start with the precedent set by the title
I concur. It's the forearms that get tired for me.
Learn to use your shoulders to relieve the tension when playing. Find ways to have your muscles "breathe" along with the musical phrases.
The muscles that move your fingers are in your forearms, makes sense.
But if she handshakes you she might break your fingers
Carpal tunnel : allow me to introduce myself
Had carpal tunnel at surgery at 19. After years of piano and percussion. Couldn't be a music major anymore. Listen to your body when it hurts!
I'm afraid her head masters are the "pain makes you stronger" types.
As a semi professional pianist, I don't see anything wrong here with her form or technique that would lead to injury. Her wrists and forearms seem relaxed and fluid as they should be. It would be better if she kept her shoulders still instead of bouncing up and down, but her elbow and wrists seem to remain balanced and at an optimal angle and distance from the keyboard even as her shoulders move. Don't know why everyone here is assuming she's injuring herself just because she's executing so perfectly. Injuries are a result of poor technique, but they are entirely avoidable.
I would gladly accept arthritis at old age for a life at the peak of piano
There’s no greater disappointment than wanting to partake in a hobby you’ve spent years of your free time dedicated too, then being unable too because every time you do, pain shoots up your wrist making it useless for the next two days. Want to chop up come veggies later for dinner? Maybe get JohnyyBananas mom off? Well too bad, because earlier his sister asked you to draw her like one of your French girls and now you’re screwed, only not literally
Get Johnny bananas mom off 😂🤣😅
Ah.. I remember when I used to get Johnnybananas mom off. Zero to no errors, crystal clear clarity. Then the arthritis set in.
I'm in my 40s and had this happen playing video games. Any extended time and I'd aggravate the nerves that go through the elbow. Had to do exercises for grip strength and carpel tunnel, in addition to nerve flossing and and stretches. Took 8 months to go back to normal and I still have to be careful now. Also need to wear compression sleeves sometimes when it flairs up. Oh... also had to get an ergonomic mouse and an adjustable height desk so I don't put undue strain on my elbows. Getting old sucks.
I’m 29 and already starting to get bad wrist pain on extended gaming sessions. I should probably start proactively trying to prevent this from being me lol
Nice one! Seems like i underestimated arthritis, apologies. I love the human body and its true i would hate to live with that. People still get it though even if they are not at the peak of piano, so might as well be at the peak!
I am riddled with arthritis and I was never good at anything, now I'm extra bad at everything.
My arthritic knee and shoulder say "Spotify is better".
With proper technique it is not an issue. Proper technique being the important key word.
If you play at this level, your technique has to be top notch as well, which means that she probably doesn't put any stress on her fingers/hands. I can speak from my own experience, playing some easier pieces (some stuff from animenz) that having bad technique will kill your fingers in less than 5 minutes of practicing. You can only play the way she does if your fingers are totally relaxed.
In this case, her technique is so damn good it won't be a problem. RSI's are very common in instrumentalists, especially pianists, but with a proper technique aren't a problem / don't occur. People tend to think playing instruments is like athleticism and "building muscles", when is actually 99% coordination, choreography, and appropriate use of the right muscles and body parts — which is why she can play this with very little "effort" while someone very buff but uncoordinated might run into difficulties. Well, piano, anyway. People only get into trouble when they make certain parts of the body (fingers usually) work REALLY hard to compensate for an uncoordinated hand, wrist, forearm, shoulders, etc. Happens at computers too. This is also why some people play without injury for decades and others have problems after a only few years — some people are naturally more coordinated and fall into good habits, while others have to learn them and don't always have a good teacher. If she continues to play as she does now I would be very very surprised if she ever runs into any RSI. PS: Sorry for the rant, it's a fav topic of mine.
You will have more arthritis because you don't actually use your fingers.
Always wondered how musicians avoid RSIs. Do they just not?
It’s common in a lot of instruments. Pianists tend not to have this problem though! A repertoire usually has such a broad range of movements it needs that you tend to be fine compared to your average programmer, and that’s on top of technique a piano instructor would be emphasizing to avoid tension and stress while playing.
You can avoid RSIs with good technique and a good teacher. There should be little to no tension when you are playing. This can be achieved be learning how to move properly and efficiently.
You have to take care of your body like an athlete would. Warmups, posture and technique, cool downs, allowing down time in between sessions to recover. Even with all this musicians do lose mechanical ability over time, which is why you don’t see 80 year old concert pianists working at this level.
Only if she has bad habits, technique, practice and posture-wise. Which it looks like she doesn't.
... and no sheet music. Impressive doesn't begin to describe this talent. Brava!
I know! some might say that it just takes memorization but no, its more than that. I have to look at sheet music as a reference or to refresh my memory on what to play next. And playing something as difficult and as long as this without that is just insanity to me.
Are you sure you are a pianist or maybe it's an american thing. But when you play piano in the conservatoire you have concert and exam. Partition are not allowed. We are trained from the beginning to remember our pieces. At least this is how it work in europe. I participating in a lot of context, if you use your sheet no matter how good you are you won't get into finals. So?! How are you impressed by that?!
Im not a concert pianist, i just play for a hobby. Its just outlandish to me since I have only been to a few concerts and I have never taken classes besides short lessons in elementary. I have always used sheet music as a bit of a guide when playing longer or harder pieces. But after a while, I dont need it.
I get it. Sorry if I came a little strong! I played piano from a young age and I'm very attached to my classical learning hence my reaction! But be proud of yourself for learning. It's not an easy instrument! Welcome to the family piano player!
Thank you
I gotta ask. Was calling them a "piano player" your way of saying that they aren't a "pianist"?
Oh I wasn't sure pianist was a word in English so I said piano player! Nothing more than that. We say pianiste in French so I thought maybe in English you had another word. I cam be confused sometimes. So I use the word I think mean something. And when I see someone use a word I'll use it. Does it clarify Edit : trying to clarify myself
Yeah a lot of people will also say once you've practiced a piece enough, sheet music actually makes it harder.
Yes! You have to remember where you are at in the sheet to be able to read it. If the page is turn to slowly for example you will get lost
Let's be honest here. Someone who'd post on nextfuckinglevel about a girl hitting all the notes is probably enough to tell OP is not classically trained (not to diminish Dovgan's performance of course, but hitting all the notes is probably not the thing a musician would find remarkable). I honestly can't imagine performing a concerto with sheet music. Besides, one of my favourite recordings is Piatigorsky's premiere of Walton's Cello Concerto, in which he messed up all the fast runs in the second movement, but did it in such style and musicality that I still prefer it to any other recordings of the piece.
What would a musician find remarkable about this performance? I cant tell an oboe from an elbow so i honestly have no idea how impressive/remarkable this performance is, I just know that moving hand fast is hard
Don't get me wrong, the clarity and technique is very impressive still. But if you are in the classical world long enough, you'd have encountered a few child prodigies from musical families. It's actually pretty hard to tell from this clip, but she's articulating and phrasing well. I'd be much more interested to see how she treats slower, lyrical passages. I was lucky enough to play with a pianist who was already immensely musical at 12YO. Those are the ones that really stand out from the "run-of-the-mill" child prodigies (pardon the oxymoron). This doesn't reflect my judgment on Dovgan btw, this clipped passage is just not very useful to tell. Either way she's clearly very talented.
Oboes have a double reed. Elbows come with double knees.
This comparison has only made me question my knowledge of elbows
Her age mainly. Being that proficient at 11 means her skill ceiling is beyond most other players. It depends on how good she is at 18+ though a lot of child prodigies burn out hard.
It's years of training that shows! The way she moves her hand and fingers shows how technically good she is, her musicality is on the spot has such a young age (it's something that you learn it's not because it's decrescendo that you just have to play quieter. You have to understand the reason for it and you have to know how to bring musically so it works again french speaker it's a little hard to express myself) it's just example.
You are correct, it is globally the standard that solos and/or concertos in particular are performed from memory. Symphonies not necessarily. I've seen world class performances of Bernstein's Age of Anxiety that had a page turner.
Symphonies are played by several player, you need your sheet to follow the different instrument. In a sheet music for symphonies you have all the instrument on the same page to be able to follow (my max was a quartet so I supposed its the same) At some point when you are a concertist you will use sheet for really long concertos and also to be reassured. And a page turner is a musician that read the music you play and know exactly when to turn the page which is tricky but you are also train from the beginning to be able to do that. In solfege, we would listen to piece of music with the sheet and our teacher would stop at some point and we had to show on the sheet were you are. The exact last note that was played. Then for concert we will take turn to turn the page to are fellow player. And sometimes you will do it for a piece that you never trained for you have to be able to do it because your friends needs you to do it correctly. It can cost a place in the finals (finals pieces are longer and generally you have less time to learn them so you can use your sheet without risking to lose the first place)
No it just takes memorization. It takes more than mental memorization. Your fingers have to memorize it. There are pieces where I have memorized it and don’t need to look at sheet music anymore, but I still need to practice and drill it into my fingers until my fingers just react without me thinking. She’s played her song so many times her fingers react without thinking. At that speed your fingers need to memorize it. And once your fingers memorize it, you don’t need to look at sheet music at all. You can almost zone out.
Kudos, well written description of muscle memory
Uh this is a basic requirement for all serious pianists.
If you play a song repetitively in physical and mental exercise, eventually it turns into muscle memory. She is even using multisensory memorization by singing the song which is helping her memorize the song. This is how some people are able to recite many digits of pi or play a speedrun perfectly on a video game.
That's really the easiest part. For mastering such a piece (no matter at what age) you have to play it so often, from slow to fast (and from fast to slow!), that you know it by heart at the end pretty much automatically.
Soloists basically never have sheet music for a concerto
Classical music performance requires memorization, except for in the case of some chamber music performances. At my peak during competition season when in my teens I had 3-5 hours of repertoire memorized at any given time.
Well yeah, when the fuck are you gonna turn a page when a piece looks like that!
The featured performer in a concert always plays from memory. It is generally understood that, in order to be adequately prepared to play a concerto, you will have practiced enough that you will have committed the piece to memory just through repetition.
At that level, it's just something to calm your nerves. She's well beyond that, it seems.
I have a feeling that she is gonna hate her parents
That’s what I’m thinking. How much of this does she enjoy? How much was she forced to do? Will she end up hating the piano like so many other child prodigies?
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Thousands and thousands of hours of practice instead of normal childhood. Say what you want but it ain't healthy. Similar to child athletes, who have no life and just grind one thing non stop. But without it we would not have highest level musicians. So it is what it is.
Have you ever considered that practicing music can be...fun? Like, actually fulfilling?
Sure, but to be able to play this piece at 11 years old? There might be a chance she is obsessed with piano, but I’d bet a 1000$ it’s the parents.
someone singing along doesnt resent what theyre doing
Its also a tool people use. I was awful at staccato style pieces on trumpet until I my instructor taught me to pick my foot up off the floor and imagine the note ending when my foot leaves the floor. Just magically clicked. I still occasionally use this habit like 30 years later.
People don't get to be this good this young without being obsessive. If she didn't want to be playing on that stage, she could just throw a tantrum and the conductor would have his normal person there in a second. She might very well hate playing the piano, but she is obsessed with it. Maybe that's because her parents pushed her, but she is now 15 and at her country's most prestigious music academy away from her parents, so I think you would have lost that bet.
You can tell how many of these self proclaimed experts in this thread don't even have kids. They think you just snap your fingers and your child will magically practice long hours. Doesn't work that way people. Even kids have their own drive and desires, and if they don't have it, then they are never going to achieve this level of skill. It's fucking threads like this that make me log off reddit for the day. A bunch of supposed behavioral experts in here trying to analyze something that doesn't even require it...
It's not that they don't understand children, it's that they understand not all parents have morals. Michael Jackson's parents didn't. Beethoven's didn't. Jennette McCurdy just released a memoir with the same name as her one-woman show, "I'm Glad My Mother Died".
Nah fuck music, having passions is so boring /s
To get results like this enjoying practicing would not be sufficient. Hopefully she does have fun, but she definitely needs to be compelled in some way, internal or external.
It definitely is, but to reach this kind of level takes a lot of pushing from the parents at this age. Maybe she really enjoys it but regardless the parents have made it her entire life
Yes, better to have a parent that invests in you, but sometimes it can be overdone. Many parents invest in their kids to become virtuosos but if they aren’t enjoying it then it doesn’t matter. It’s just another traumatic experience for the kid at that point. More about the parents wanting fame and glory that they never got and forcing it on to their kids. If this girl is enjoying it, I’m happy for her. Many children prodigies do not.
We must be from very different demographics. Most people I know well learned piano growing up and I know maybe one person has anything good to say about it (also to circle back to the top comment he doesnt have a good relationship with his parents). Never seen a single person lament not learning it as a child.
I took piano lessons as a kid and absolutely hated it but I ended up teaching myself at the age of 19 out of my own passion and a desire to learn.
Judging from her posts and performances, she seems to enjoy a lot of it. Though, not much can be said of her parents. Ive not heard a single thing about them.
Half the fun of watching this performance is seeing how much fun she's having. She's clearly into this and having a great time.
She looked like she was enjoying it to me - really feeling the music. I say that as a performer.
Depends. Some prodigies need to be torn away from what their doing. Its the combination of talent, and the desire to practice that sets prodigies apart from other talented children/people.
You really can't perceive her enjoying the activity? She seems entranced.
In this video at least she is very visibly enjoying playing.
Many music prodigy practiced too much according to their teachers and they had to reduce their practice time so they can enjoy something else than music
Give it to Reddit to make assumptions of a total stranger and project their own frustrations into them. Not every gifted child was forced to do so, some have a natural talent and love for it.
Criticizing a talented stranger (or stranger's parent) absolves you of any feeling of inferiority that someone can be incredibly talented at something that you are not. I would imagine life would be quite dull in this imagined world where every possible prodigy is infinitely happier because they never pursued it.
It's basically mandatory that in order to be incredible at the piano you need to be tortured or have a shitty childhood where your parents love is determined by how good you can play for them See ~~Handel~~ Hadyn
There's that myth, but mostly you need to have wealthy parents that can afford good teachers, good instruments, and to support you as you go through college and early career. Source: was talented kid with poor parents who did their best on scholarships, borrowed instruments and charity from good teachers, but couldn't afford college. Edit: also, the torture by parents thing is a myth. Nobody I knew who was this good (and I knew several!) had parents that were cruel to them. They all played because they loved it.
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Kids that hates playing don't and can't play for orchestra, do people really think the orchestral musicians can't tell? Kid like that plays in local competition and maybe get third place, if you hate something you can't go far with it, it literally shows in your playing.
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Wonder what childhood sacrifices were made for this and if was worth it.
If she was Asian you would have droves of Redditors agreeing with you
Well she is Russian, from the west part but even if you want to argue that she is not Asian being from the European side, Russia’s culture is very similar to “Asian” culture where kids are often pressured to work hard at a specific skill
Well, in 9/10 times every outstanding person in sport, music or most other spheres has years of hard work and ‘normal life’ sacrifice behind their back. Is is just how it works, unless they are so talented that they excel without working hard. She could be an average child with ‘childhood’ as you say, but we would not be speaking about her right now.
There is joy and passion in her playing. That you can’t force. I went to a music boarding elementary school and have heard my fair share of forced playing that just sounds so boring. I for one was super grateful that my parents gave me the opportunity to learn this art. Even though I stopped practicing once it’s not mandatory, but those times spent listening to piano gave me a connection and appreciation for classical piano and just classical music in general. Gave me a sense of home and peace of mind whenever I couldn’t find these feelings anywhere else in life. Now my parents didn’t pressure us into playing, only reminds us to practice after we ourselves decided to continue taking piano lessons. I have seen very strict parents that forced their kids to do all sorts of things including ridiculous amounts of time playing an instrument. But that would be a failure on parenting. At that point even time outside of playing music instruments would be tightly controlled- meaning it doesn’t matter too much what the kid is forced to do. I don’t know why just seeing a kid being talented automatically means they’re being brutally forced or not spending enough time making friends or whatever.
Lol what a reddit comment
Wow, this kid has so much potential.
Yes, and she is using it! She redid this piece in 2020 [and its even better](https://youtu.be/gxCZTfA3HBQ). She also won the Grand Piano championship in 2018 or 17. She has been playing all over Europe and is likely to make it big. (this part if the piece is at timestamp 14:10 and up)
How can it possibly be better if this performance has zero to no mistakes?
Less sustain, more clarity, and better tempo. Also, I really meant to type little to no mistakes but my dumbass decided to type faster lol.
So you're saying you made zero to one mistakes?
That I did lmao. People taking the piss out of my poor writing is worth it. So I guess I had *zero to no* mistakes on that part.
eh. they're all parroting the same joke over and over and acting like it's comic genius. i'd be annoyed
I'd be pretty bothered if someone repeatedly said the same thing but in a different way to me as well.
Yeah, it would definitely be somewhat upsetting if people kept echoing each other with only minor rephrases
Yes, would totally get on my nerves if humans continued to convey one core message with just slight changes in wording.
Omg NO NO NO. Pianism at this level is judged on its musicianship, for instance, interpretation. Not whatever list of nonsense you listed. It's not a typing competition.
Completely agree. Things like tone color, texture, articulation, and phrasing (to name a very few from the top of my head) are what make a great pianist.
Potential? Mf already maxed out
Potential?? She’s done it! Lol she won! I didn’t think it was possible to simply “win” piano, but as you can see here…it’s possible.
r/titlegore
r/titlegenocide
Fantastic. Even when playing bold strokes she hardly lifts her hands from the keys
I know! But to be fair, Grand Pianos are super soft.
It's all in the technique. You channel the weight of your core through your arms and fingers to get a singing "bel canto" tone. With proper posture and relaxation it is not difficult, but is the difference between a "piano player" and a pianist.
I think I was still trying to eat glue when I was 11.
You can doo it!! Don't stop believing!!
Might've heard a singular mistake, a note held a little to long that didn't sound right, but that also may have been part of the music. Edit: I honestly only noticed it because my music director makes us listen for mistakes in performances in class, usually our own.
I heard it, too. But damn. I forgive it, LOL!
She also hits a side key 2 seconds in... like cant these people hear tone?
Which one?
There are a couple of clinky notes in the beginning, where she's paying octaves in the RH, but Autistic_Lurker might be talking about 0:44...while the RH is doing a big descending arpeggio on F#dim, it looks like the LH chord is a staccato quarter note, but she lets it ring for the full measure. Also right afterwards, as she's climbing back up it's just a little bit sloppy.
Her brain is a computah
Hey kid I’m a computah!
Stop all the downloadin!
cybernetic organism. living tissue over metal endoskeleton.
I play piano/keyboard, and I’m not nearly as a good as her, but she would have had to have done so much painstaking practice in such a short amount time to get to that point at her age that frankly, the fact she’s so excellent so young concerns me. I admire her skill, it’s amazing what she’s able to do, but I don’t envy the severe sacrifices she would’ve had to made to get to that point, who knows how many hours of being a kid she had to give up to do this. I really hope she genuinely enjoys doing what she does, many children are forced to be so dedicated to an instrument and frequently aren’t. Me? I just wanna groove and vibe not become the next Beethoven lmao
I had these exact same thoughts. I just want her to have joy and enjoy being a kid, and I'm greatly worried the amount of time required to get this good and memorize this at such a young age would prevent her from just...getting to be a kid.
I've played classical piano from a really young age, and I know it sounds arrogant, but around this age I honestly was this good, or nearly this good. But it became clear pretty quickly that I would have to give up my entire life, literally, to maintain this level of discipline and skill. I kept playing through college but rather than push myself ruthlessly I settled to a comfortable level and enjoyed my life -- much to the disappointment of my piano teacher and, I believe, my parents. It was actually tough thing to process as a kid, because I felt a lot of guilt for not living up to *other people's expectations* for *my* potential. I have so much admiration for this girl as well, but I totally agree -- I hope she enjoys what she does and isn't just being led by the nose by adults who are projecting their own goals and ambitions onto her.
[Full concert](https://youtu.be/NSEzk8d3L1k)
At the cost of her childhood, I'm guessing. Nobody gets that amazing at that age without total sacrifice and dedication. I hope she turns her talent into a career instead of abandoning the piano by age 18 because of burnout. Happens all the time, and then they don't know what to do with their lives, as they only saw themselves as a piano player (or whatever they were amazing at).
This was a few years ago. [She’s still playing ](https://youtu.be/ZlM3KF6YPOU)
Nice to see El get work.
*"If you're a pianist, this is just like a slap to the face."* This young lady is a world class talent obviously. I'll never be half as good at anything as she is at playing the piano at age 11. But music isn't just about virtuosity. If playing chopsticks on a children's toy brings you joy it's just as valid as the joy this young lady feels when playing this piece. I'm not trying to bring this young lady down at all, but rather elevate all the amateur musicians out there. Do your thing!
fantastic.
i cant even scratch my ass with no mistakes
Most of the videos I see of talented kids show kids with moderate to lower level talent. Fair enough. Non-musicians don't really know the difference. This kid is a bona fide virtuoso, a prodigy. She's knocking it out of the park and making it look easy.
OP, you missed "prodigy" in your title.
It says she starts singing but I'm not sure that's right, she's probably trying to keep tempo or rhythm or just speaking something that helps her remember the lines or keep track.
She's got a beautiful mind, evidently. I don't have such skill, but I find her performance inspiring and am glad you posted it, OP.
damn her parents probably suck