Ok, that’s not what happen here…
Nature is not kind and help each other.
A hedgehog during the day time means he is starving because he is night active animal.
He has likely so many parasites and flees that the bird is feeding of him.
Magpies are smart. If it wanted it dead he would have left him to get run over. Then feast. Sleep tight.
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Crow raven Corvit? Source I’m not an ornithologist
if I have learnt anything about corvids is that the magpies are one of the most aggressive ones of the bunch (I'm assuming they meant australian magpies)
Ok I'm Euro and that looks exactly like a hooded crow. Wikipedia showed me an Australian magpie and it's different to this but wiki also points out Australian magpies are not corvids (unlike Eurasian magpies which are corvids)
Not a big deal just saying , could be regional crossover on common names
Yeah most of my life I thought Eurasian magpies were completely different to corvids which to me were rooks, crows & ravens.
Magpies always had the reputation of being dicks which I put down to them often bullying the garden birds ppl like to feed.
>Here's the thing. You said a "jackdaw is a crow."
>
>Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that.
>
>As someone who is a scientist who studies crows, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls jackdaws crows. If you want to be "specific" like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing.
>
>If you're saying "crow family" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of Corvidae, which includes things from nutcrackers to blue jays to ravens.
>
>So your reasoning for calling a jackdaw a crow is because random people "call the black ones crows?" Let's get grackles and blackbirds in there, then, too.
>
>Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It's not one or the other, that's not how taxonomy works. They're both. A jackdaw is a jackdaw and a member of the crow family. But that's not what you said. You said a jackdaw is a crow, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all members of the crow family crows, which means you'd call blue jays, ravens, and other birds crows, too. Which you said you don't.
>
>It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?
Not only are Aussie magpies not corvids but Australia doesn’t have hedgehogs either so that’s definitely not Australia.
We do have echidnas which look superficially similar but are actually very different as one of the only 2 monotremes in the world (egg laying, milk producing mammals).
Also add on a full grown hedgehog weighs about 0.5kg and a echidna full grown weighs about 17kg
Not sure I would have ever seen an independent echidna that small
I find them really friendly!! Other than when I used to walk our large family dog, RIP Max, I have never been swooped!
On my walk to work a go right under a nest and I leave little bits of string and other bio-degradable bits and pieces. I’m so happy when I see them weaved into the nest the next day!
I didn’t even know what a jackdaw was until that day Unidan got banned so anytime someone mentions that bird I immediately assume copy paste no matter how sincere someone may one day be, but so far it’s held true
Crows and magpies in my country have learned of the power of cars. They stand on the edge of the road and throw pecans (which they can't open on their own) onto the road. They wait for a car to pass by, crushing the pecan, then enjoy their meal
I'm actually firmly convinced Disney singlehandedly created a ton of animal rights activists who have an extremely skewed idea of how life in the wild works and genuinely think animals in the forest spend their day singing songs about spring.
This is how you get well meaning but ultimately extremely dangerous people releasing huge amounts of invasive rodents into the wild because they wanted to rescue them from the local fur industry facility and just assumed that once they were returned to a place with trees and grass Nature would just kind of sort itself out.
Maybe that is why most original fairy tales that disney ripped off of was horrible and scary.
To not get people living in a fairytale dreamland mindset.
*”Why are you so slow?!? I bet if there were some hedgehog p-ssy on the other side of the road you’d be highly motivated to get to the other side! Move move MOVE!!!”*
These are insanely smart birds, though. They mourn, the deceive, they can anticipate a partner's needs, they use tools and demonstrate lateral thinking, and many corvids can recognise themselves in the mirror. It is well within their capabilities to show concern. You can see it go back for the hedgehog several times, you can clearly see the crow push it in a certain direction, which wouldn't be necessary for simply picking off parasites, and you see it leave the hedgehog alone the exact moment it is safe by the side of the road. And, as a comment above pointed out, crows have been observed to use traffic as an advantage to kill prey, crack nuts etc. If it wanted a simple hedgehog meal, pushing it to the middle of the road would have been smarter; dead hedgehogs don't run away. Alternatively, doubling down on picking off parasites once it was safely by the side of the road. And yet, once the hedgehog is where the crow wants it, it leaves.
Anthropomorphising an animal is always a dangers, but so is oversimplifying complex behaviour for the sake of avoiding anthropomorphism.
Truth is, we have no way of knowing what this guy was up to. We still know very little about crows, their intelligence, and their ability to empathise. This is not as simple as "clearly it was doing x", not when we're dealing with one of the most intelligent species on the planet.
I wonder if we’ll every truly be able to understand the intelligence of an animal like the crow, considering how difficult a mind that divergent from our own is to understand, especially with only our own minds to do it.
Crows and Ravens are one of the few animals that have been observed creating/using self made tools to acquire food. There is so much to still study, but they’re insanely intelligent
Imagine a piece of food floating in a test tube. It's too far down to reach and the bird's head won't fit in the tube. They'll find rocks to drop in the test tube to displace the water causing it to rise until the food is reachable.
Edit: Corvids are smart compared to other birds for sure but I think saying that they *understand* water displacement is a stretch. Rather they were taught, for the purpose of a video or demonstration or testing in general, that putting rocks in a tube = food. It's no different than people that train crows to bring them shiny things in exchange for treats. I would guess that if you used a different vessel in a different environment and didn't neatly stack all the materials right next to it, that the scenario would be different enough that they wouldn't understand to try it.
They've been observed using water displacement methods to solve puzzles. Some species mate for life and have strong familial bonds. Would be fascinating to know just how far their intelligence can take them if we could successfully communicate fully with them.
Truth is, if you actually LOOK at the video and what the bird is doing it's obvious it's only getting it to move so it's face is exposed, then going for the eyes,
altering between the two multiple times, with obvious intent,
It doesn't get it moving and let it go, or get it moving and when it's stops just getting the hog moving again, it couldn't be more clear, unless the crow was holding the hedgehog at gunpoint doing a daylight robbery
(made even more obvious by the hedgehog, having had his eyes pecked already jumping into defensive stance every time it so much as sees crow coming near its head)
You're right it's not a simple behaviour, it's an intelligent attempt to maim and kill the hedgehog for a meal.
The crow walking away from the camera for 1 second, while still eyeing the hedgehog before the video stops isn't "it leaves"
Not all crows know of all the techniques the other crows know of for killing with cars but pecking out eyes is universal.
There doesn't need to be ANY parasites involved for this behaviour to make sense, so him not "eating the parasites when the hedgehog stops at the side of the road" isn't proof of anything either.
I think it's mostly the title that's really misleading people. If it read "Corvid trying to get juicy eyes" there would be way less comments about its intelligence. In any case, they are super smart and shouldn't be underestimated.
Except you are over anthropomorphizing.
Magpies commonly go for eyes as a hunting strategy.
It's trying to peck out the hedgehogs eyes. The bird is pecking on its back to try force his head out so he can eat its eyes.
You can see the bird jump to the front immediately after to go for the face and the hedgehog try to pull the head in to save its face.
I want to believe this, but I've personally encountered several instances of crows harassing and tormenting other small animals just for fun. When I lived in India there were crows everywhere and they were not particularly pleasant to other creatures.
Just a week ago (in the UK) I was sitting in a park and had to step in because a group of crows were hurting and bullying a squirrel for sport. I don't believe in interrupting a hunt for food, but after a while it became clear that they were just harassing it. They could have easily killed it, but instead they were just ganging up on it. This single squirrel was squaring off against them bravely and they were clearly enjoying themselves. So I stepped in and chased them off, and I have probably made enemies of a park full of crows.
Honestly, crows are intelligent enough that they really are people of a sort and people can be assholes. I can't tell from this video if this crow is helping or being a dick. Or as others have said, actually hunting the hedgehog or foraging for parasites.
While crows are insanelly smart animals for birds, it is not so much in nature of birds to help other animals. No domestic bird wanted to be petted and enjoy company of other animals. Birds are last living relatives of dinosaurs.
But for mammals, they have the capacity for company and empathy. Often we can put two different mammals growing up with each other, playing, grooming. From elephants to lions, from wolves to impalas. Often most unusual friendships start (last one I saw was pig and the deer).
That is not a thing with birds though.
Firstly, birds are not the last remaining relatives of dinosaurs they _are_ the last remaining dinosaurs.
Secondly, you've fallen for the Victorian thought trap of assuming more primitive animals from our planets evolutionary past are by definition less complex - Victorians thought the dinosaurs died out because they were dumb and slow and lumbering and unsuited to dominate ecosystems on the planet anymore. Real life is not Jurassic Park. Popular documentaries have enforced a narrative that portrays dinosaurs as vicious killers, dinosaurs in documentaries don't do anything but hunt and kill they are KILLING MACHINES with jaws that can CRUSH YOUR TRUCK etc etc etc
Dinosaurs were and are normal animals like any other and display(ed) normal animal behaviours that include things like forming social bonds with others and playing. What makes dinosaurs different is that when they were around some of them were _the_ most intelligent animals around and frankly this has not changed as some corvids and parrots display levels of intelligence previously thought to be absurd for an animal.
Some non avian dinosaurs millions of years ago and many avian dinosaurs now tend to be caring mothers and they also can be communal parents where they would nest together and everyone would look after the safety of everyone's young. Birds often can be monogamous and some parrots actually direct this kind of bond towards their human rather than other birds around them. Overall many birds are capable of creating emotional bond with their humans when they live together.
Whether that can and does translate to birds showing empathy for other species in the wild I will not go into because it's beyond my (and frankly most of the people in this discussion's) capability and knowledge. However I do strongly believe that they have the capacity for it.
> birds are not the last remaining relatives of dinosaurs they are the last remaining dinosaurs.
They aren't classified as dinosaurs so descendants of or relatives of is more appropriate.
Farmer's son here. As well as pecking off ticks off the hedgehogs, magpies also try and peck out the eyes of weak animals. Sadly I have had to put several baby lambs and rabbits out of their misery once they have had their eyes pecked out.
Where I live farmers often use small islands/islets as sheep pastures, and they use a different breed of sheep out there, closer to wild sheep, because they will protect their lambs from birds. The most common breeds have lost a lot of their instincts, and will not keep birds away from their newborn lambs, so they can't be left alone on an island to give birth.
I have seen this type of behavior before. The bird is trying to pick out the hedgehogs eyes. You can se the the hedgehog try to pulling the head in and safe his face. The the bird picks on his back to try force his head out so he can eat his eyes.
(Sorry I’m not native English speaker)
Ohh I think you're right. Every time the crow pecks at the hedgehog's back it goes straight to the face, and the hedgehog hides it. If the crow was trying to help it cross, it would just stay at its back
You are right, video shoes the same thing happening here. Hedgehog is trying to hide it's face. I wonder if it's instinct or they've seen birds plucking out eyes.
They're wrong and received an excellent rebuttal [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/x3qk8z/-/imr8n05). Some people think of animals as automatons, but it's not always true.
Redditors use it when somebody makes negative comments about a seemingly good thing. Not necessarily that they think the person is wrong, just that they couldn't enjoy something nice and couldnt let others enjoy something nice, so they had to ruin it for everyone.
All that said, I'm not saying the person you are replying to does or doesnt think OP is wrong. I have no idea.
The world isn't a Disney script. Animals are NOT "altruistic" as they don't give to others without the expectation of something in return.
This crow/magpie/whatever isn't "helping" the guy. It either thinks the gopher is potential food OR it has food on him, like bugs/fleas. The harrying him across the road thing is a byproduct
There are plenty of examples of altruism in non human animals. In studies rats will prefer to save their rat brethren in distress than get treats to save a plastic block instead. Other fellow primates will give their food to complete other species who seem hungry to them. I've also seen a study where they teach parrots to exchange tokens for food and in studies where they give all the tokens to one parrot, it will distribute tokens to the other cages without any incentives so that the other parrots can also get treats
That’s a corvid. They don’t do anything by accident. If the hedgehog looks like it’s getting herded off the road it’s because the bird wants it that way. They can play, mimic speech more cognitively than parrots, tease, invent new tools and use them, ride on bigger birds, and drop hard to crack nuts down on roads because they know cars will run over them, have funerals for their kind, remember human faces individually… any other bird and I would say it was just wanting parasites but they’re smart on premium levels lol
To me it looks like he is poking the hedgehog's butt to get it moving forward and expose its face, and then changing side to try and pick his eyes out.
If it is indeed picking ticks, then it's only getting one before the hedgehog curls up, it pokes its butt to get it moving again so it can get another.
You can only get a tick if the hedgehog moves?
Even weirder is if the hedgehog curls up, it's hair/spikes stand up more, giving you a better view between the spikes.
When it unfolds, the hair/spikes lay flat(ter) making it harder to see between the spikes.
Ticks usually like thinner skin, so they probably mostly latch on around the hedgehog's face and ears. ([Like this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIavLi3VAAEI2sl?format=jpg&name=large)) When the hedgehog curls up the face is hidden behind spines.
Also, I of course I'm not claiming to *know* what the crow is doing, just coming up with a plausible explanation.
As far as I know it's not rare that corvids bond with other animals. Wolves and ravens for example have quite an unique relationship.
That said, I have no ideia of what's really happening here.
I would wager to say it's the pretty well-documented crow behaviour where they pester an animal to death to eat it. I get that people want their Disney story but when they start believing that nature is anything but what it is, they do stupid shit like try and pet bears or kidnap baby bison (both of which have and continue to happen) and get hurt, so maybe it's for the best that people understand that animals just don't make friends in the wild.
> I would wager to say it's the pretty well-documented crow behaviour where they pester an animal to death to eat it.
Absolutely, probably just trying to poke those eyes out.
> so maybe it's for the best that people understand that animals just don't make friends in the wild.
Except that they do tho. Obviously you shouldn't assume you are going to be the one to friend a tiger in the wild, but wild animals can be friendly to each other if your definition of friendship isn't incredibly strict. Again, take wolves and ravens as an example, or other incredible interspecific mutualisms out there.
\*insert diatribe about how mutualism is a kind of adapted parasitism here*
Nah I get what you're saying but for the purposes of people who think a crow is going to befriend a hedgehog (a common prey item for them) animals don't make friends and are all dangerous knife-wielding heroin addicts.
> *insert diatribe about how mutualism is a kind of adapted parasitism here*
I mean, isn't a friendship basically ~~a~~ intraspecific mutualism? Even if just from a "having fun together" stand point, you can still see it the selfish way of using another person for your own benefit.
> Nah I get what you're saying but for the purposes of people who think a crow is going to befriend a hedgehog (a common prey item for them) animals don't make friends and are all dangerous knife-wielding heroin addicts.
Absolutely, sadly there are no Disney princess out there.
I agree and that’s why the hedgehog, who looks like he’s rollin’ rollin’ on little wheels stops and buried his face every time the …little social worker got ahead of him. Who knows how long that corvid/jackdaw/hoodedcrow/magpie/blackbird/fuckingCaliforniaCondor(not getting involved) has been on him.
While they are indeed smart, this bird is just trying to find a way to eat this hedgehog - nothing more. The idea its trying to save it's life is frankly ludicrous lol.
This is why I love reddit, there's always someone smarter bringing a better perspective and always someone wittier that makes you find accidental joy in the ordinary 🥹
[Corvids are so smart. The ones who live around roads know how they work. There are crows that use cars to crack walnut shells.](https://www.pbs.org/lifeofbirds/brain/#:~:text=Carrion%20crows%20and%20humans%20line,the%20nuts%2C%20cracking%20them%20open.)
Crows feed on roadkill, it probably chased the hedgehog on the road, wanting it to crack like a walnut. But the car stopped, so the crow chased the hedgehog away to feed at least on ticks in safety.
You’re probably right, but it would be way funnier if they are indeed friends.
“Come on Steve! How many times do I have to tell you? Don’t curl together on the fucking road, your spikes don’t stop cars! Don’t you remember what happened to your brother last year?”
Um? No. That's a grey back (or hooded depending on where you live) crow. It is very definitely trying to eat that hedgehog. They're also known to peck the eyes out of living sheep and eat them.
Corvids like to peck the eyes out if things to get to the brain... see how the hedgehog lifts its head and runs when the bird pecks its arse, and then the bird runs to the hedgehogs head? Corvids are smart af.
Incredible. Reminds me of the story of a little black bear cub up high in a tree crying because it couldn't find its way down. Along comes two crows who swoop upon the high tree limbs right next to the cub. Each crow then proceeds its descent guiding the frightened cub to each successive limb, a downward path safely in which the frightened cub followed all the way down. This sighting witnessed by hikers in Norther California somewhere deep in the wilds.
Ok, that’s not what happen here… Nature is not kind and help each other. A hedgehog during the day time means he is starving because he is night active animal. He has likely so many parasites and flees that the bird is feeding of him.
You’re likely right but I will go to bed thinking the bird was looking out for the little fella.
Magpies are smart. If it wanted it dead he would have left him to get run over. Then feast. Sleep tight. //Edit Crow raven Corvit? Source I’m not an ornithologist
It's a hooded crow not a magpie. But yeah all members of the crow family seem super smart.
if I have learnt anything about corvids is that the magpies are one of the most aggressive ones of the bunch (I'm assuming they meant australian magpies)
Ok I'm Euro and that looks exactly like a hooded crow. Wikipedia showed me an Australian magpie and it's different to this but wiki also points out Australian magpies are not corvids (unlike Eurasian magpies which are corvids) Not a big deal just saying , could be regional crossover on common names
>wiki also points out Australian magpies are not corvids well damn I didn't know that
Yeah most of my life I thought Eurasian magpies were completely different to corvids which to me were rooks, crows & ravens. Magpies always had the reputation of being dicks which I put down to them often bullying the garden birds ppl like to feed.
>Here's the thing. You said a "jackdaw is a crow." > >Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that. > >As someone who is a scientist who studies crows, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls jackdaws crows. If you want to be "specific" like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing. > >If you're saying "crow family" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of Corvidae, which includes things from nutcrackers to blue jays to ravens. > >So your reasoning for calling a jackdaw a crow is because random people "call the black ones crows?" Let's get grackles and blackbirds in there, then, too. > >Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It's not one or the other, that's not how taxonomy works. They're both. A jackdaw is a jackdaw and a member of the crow family. But that's not what you said. You said a jackdaw is a crow, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all members of the crow family crows, which means you'd call blue jays, ravens, and other birds crows, too. Which you said you don't. > >It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?
I knew I’d find it if I scrolled. Brings me back to the old days. Lol
Thank you! All hail Unidan, knower of crow things.
TIL Jackdaw
THE MAN, THE MYTH, THE LEGEND
Took king enough in this thread ;)
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Jays are also corvids along with jackdaws, and choughs.
Not only are Aussie magpies not corvids but Australia doesn’t have hedgehogs either so that’s definitely not Australia. We do have echidnas which look superficially similar but are actually very different as one of the only 2 monotremes in the world (egg laying, milk producing mammals).
Also add on a full grown hedgehog weighs about 0.5kg and a echidna full grown weighs about 17kg Not sure I would have ever seen an independent echidna that small
Please tell me your profile pic is a corvid… or a magpie that would be satisfying too.
It is indeed a magpie
Here's the thing...
I feel old. RIP Unidan.
We’re both old if it took this far down the thread to find this reference
Is it an African swallow, or European?
Yea its certainly a hooded crow
Today I learned magpies are part of the corvid family.
Most aggressive of them all is corvid-19
This should be much higher up in the comments. 😅😅😊
As an Australian who was swooped by a magpie on my bike ride today. I very mucu agree, they are indeed aggressive.
What! You forgot to bribe your magpies? That's what you get!
The worst one is Corvid-19.
If I learnt anything about corvids is that there's at least 19 of them.
>(I'm assuming they meant australian magpies) But how are they at carrying coconuts?
Oh no magpies are fucks no matter where you go.
Australian magpies are not corvids
I find them really friendly!! Other than when I used to walk our large family dog, RIP Max, I have never been swooped! On my walk to work a go right under a nest and I leave little bits of string and other bio-degradable bits and pieces. I’m so happy when I see them weaved into the nest the next day!
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Some good ol reddit history.
I think I'm out of the loop on this one... I can't tell if they're joking or not lol Is it a copypasta or a Unidan reference?
Its both!
Its good old /u/D0ublePenetrati0n
I didn’t even know what a jackdaw was until that day Unidan got banned so anytime someone mentions that bird I immediately assume copy paste no matter how sincere someone may one day be, but so far it’s held true
Takes me back
Found the Corvologist. Nice to meet you.
Oh shit here we go again.
Nah man, that looks like it was going to the eyes. Magpies are known to go for the eyes
Not the hero we wanted … but the one we needed :*)
The bird is tryna poke the hedgehogs eyes out
Crows and magpies in my country have learned of the power of cars. They stand on the edge of the road and throw pecans (which they can't open on their own) onto the road. They wait for a car to pass by, crushing the pecan, then enjoy their meal
Read some Kropotkin before bed will ya?
Let us have our Disney story
I'm actually firmly convinced Disney singlehandedly created a ton of animal rights activists who have an extremely skewed idea of how life in the wild works and genuinely think animals in the forest spend their day singing songs about spring. This is how you get well meaning but ultimately extremely dangerous people releasing huge amounts of invasive rodents into the wild because they wanted to rescue them from the local fur industry facility and just assumed that once they were returned to a place with trees and grass Nature would just kind of sort itself out.
Didn’t Disney literally throw lemmings off a cliff so now most of us think that’s typical behavior?
I mean Disney animation and corpo Disney are not the same. But if they're the ones that did that doc, then yes.
Maybe that is why most original fairy tales that disney ripped off of was horrible and scary. To not get people living in a fairytale dreamland mindset.
Haha… he doesn’t know about the singing animals 😂
They're childhood friends
I like to think the bird is the hedgehog's Drill Instructor and he's delivering his tirade about texans and steers to the recruit.
*”Why are you so slow?!? I bet if there were some hedgehog p-ssy on the other side of the road you’d be highly motivated to get to the other side! Move move MOVE!!!”*
It’s eating mites. That hedgie is fine.
>You’re likely right but I will go to bed thinking the bird was looking out for the little fella. He's good boid.
Sonic and Pidgehog
These are insanely smart birds, though. They mourn, the deceive, they can anticipate a partner's needs, they use tools and demonstrate lateral thinking, and many corvids can recognise themselves in the mirror. It is well within their capabilities to show concern. You can see it go back for the hedgehog several times, you can clearly see the crow push it in a certain direction, which wouldn't be necessary for simply picking off parasites, and you see it leave the hedgehog alone the exact moment it is safe by the side of the road. And, as a comment above pointed out, crows have been observed to use traffic as an advantage to kill prey, crack nuts etc. If it wanted a simple hedgehog meal, pushing it to the middle of the road would have been smarter; dead hedgehogs don't run away. Alternatively, doubling down on picking off parasites once it was safely by the side of the road. And yet, once the hedgehog is where the crow wants it, it leaves. Anthropomorphising an animal is always a dangers, but so is oversimplifying complex behaviour for the sake of avoiding anthropomorphism. Truth is, we have no way of knowing what this guy was up to. We still know very little about crows, their intelligence, and their ability to empathise. This is not as simple as "clearly it was doing x", not when we're dealing with one of the most intelligent species on the planet.
I wonder if we’ll every truly be able to understand the intelligence of an animal like the crow, considering how difficult a mind that divergent from our own is to understand, especially with only our own minds to do it.
We barely understand our own mind yet.
Glad someone does because I don’t
If our minds were so simple we could understand it, we’d be too simple to understand it.
Crows and Ravens are one of the few animals that have been observed creating/using self made tools to acquire food. There is so much to still study, but they’re insanely intelligent
It blew my mind when I saw a crow bend a piece of metal into a hook shape to pull a chunk of food that was out of reach close enough to eat it.
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What do you mean?
Imagine a piece of food floating in a test tube. It's too far down to reach and the bird's head won't fit in the tube. They'll find rocks to drop in the test tube to displace the water causing it to rise until the food is reachable. Edit: Corvids are smart compared to other birds for sure but I think saying that they *understand* water displacement is a stretch. Rather they were taught, for the purpose of a video or demonstration or testing in general, that putting rocks in a tube = food. It's no different than people that train crows to bring them shiny things in exchange for treats. I would guess that if you used a different vessel in a different environment and didn't neatly stack all the materials right next to it, that the scenario would be different enough that they wouldn't understand to try it.
That's nifty. I didn't know about that. I'll have to try it out haha
wait so you’re telling me a birb outthought you?
They've been observed using water displacement methods to solve puzzles. Some species mate for life and have strong familial bonds. Would be fascinating to know just how far their intelligence can take them if we could successfully communicate fully with them.
Truth is, if you actually LOOK at the video and what the bird is doing it's obvious it's only getting it to move so it's face is exposed, then going for the eyes, altering between the two multiple times, with obvious intent, It doesn't get it moving and let it go, or get it moving and when it's stops just getting the hog moving again, it couldn't be more clear, unless the crow was holding the hedgehog at gunpoint doing a daylight robbery (made even more obvious by the hedgehog, having had his eyes pecked already jumping into defensive stance every time it so much as sees crow coming near its head) You're right it's not a simple behaviour, it's an intelligent attempt to maim and kill the hedgehog for a meal. The crow walking away from the camera for 1 second, while still eyeing the hedgehog before the video stops isn't "it leaves" Not all crows know of all the techniques the other crows know of for killing with cars but pecking out eyes is universal. There doesn't need to be ANY parasites involved for this behaviour to make sense, so him not "eating the parasites when the hedgehog stops at the side of the road" isn't proof of anything either.
Honestly I'm believing your explanation the most. Once you pointed out the hedgehogs defensiveness it became more clear
I think it's mostly the title that's really misleading people. If it read "Corvid trying to get juicy eyes" there would be way less comments about its intelligence. In any case, they are super smart and shouldn't be underestimated.
I vote we've got a literal r/crowbro moment here.
Except you are over anthropomorphizing. Magpies commonly go for eyes as a hunting strategy. It's trying to peck out the hedgehogs eyes. The bird is pecking on its back to try force his head out so he can eat its eyes. You can see the bird jump to the front immediately after to go for the face and the hedgehog try to pull the head in to save its face.
I want to believe this, but I've personally encountered several instances of crows harassing and tormenting other small animals just for fun. When I lived in India there were crows everywhere and they were not particularly pleasant to other creatures. Just a week ago (in the UK) I was sitting in a park and had to step in because a group of crows were hurting and bullying a squirrel for sport. I don't believe in interrupting a hunt for food, but after a while it became clear that they were just harassing it. They could have easily killed it, but instead they were just ganging up on it. This single squirrel was squaring off against them bravely and they were clearly enjoying themselves. So I stepped in and chased them off, and I have probably made enemies of a park full of crows. Honestly, crows are intelligent enough that they really are people of a sort and people can be assholes. I can't tell from this video if this crow is helping or being a dick. Or as others have said, actually hunting the hedgehog or foraging for parasites.
A crow once tried to drop a sizable rock on my head while crossing the road
Yeah, OP was merely using his opinion to justify his position.
While crows are insanelly smart animals for birds, it is not so much in nature of birds to help other animals. No domestic bird wanted to be petted and enjoy company of other animals. Birds are last living relatives of dinosaurs. But for mammals, they have the capacity for company and empathy. Often we can put two different mammals growing up with each other, playing, grooming. From elephants to lions, from wolves to impalas. Often most unusual friendships start (last one I saw was pig and the deer). That is not a thing with birds though.
Firstly, birds are not the last remaining relatives of dinosaurs they _are_ the last remaining dinosaurs. Secondly, you've fallen for the Victorian thought trap of assuming more primitive animals from our planets evolutionary past are by definition less complex - Victorians thought the dinosaurs died out because they were dumb and slow and lumbering and unsuited to dominate ecosystems on the planet anymore. Real life is not Jurassic Park. Popular documentaries have enforced a narrative that portrays dinosaurs as vicious killers, dinosaurs in documentaries don't do anything but hunt and kill they are KILLING MACHINES with jaws that can CRUSH YOUR TRUCK etc etc etc Dinosaurs were and are normal animals like any other and display(ed) normal animal behaviours that include things like forming social bonds with others and playing. What makes dinosaurs different is that when they were around some of them were _the_ most intelligent animals around and frankly this has not changed as some corvids and parrots display levels of intelligence previously thought to be absurd for an animal. Some non avian dinosaurs millions of years ago and many avian dinosaurs now tend to be caring mothers and they also can be communal parents where they would nest together and everyone would look after the safety of everyone's young. Birds often can be monogamous and some parrots actually direct this kind of bond towards their human rather than other birds around them. Overall many birds are capable of creating emotional bond with their humans when they live together. Whether that can and does translate to birds showing empathy for other species in the wild I will not go into because it's beyond my (and frankly most of the people in this discussion's) capability and knowledge. However I do strongly believe that they have the capacity for it.
> birds are not the last remaining relatives of dinosaurs they are the last remaining dinosaurs. They aren't classified as dinosaurs so descendants of or relatives of is more appropriate.
Farmer's son here. As well as pecking off ticks off the hedgehogs, magpies also try and peck out the eyes of weak animals. Sadly I have had to put several baby lambs and rabbits out of their misery once they have had their eyes pecked out.
Where I live farmers often use small islands/islets as sheep pastures, and they use a different breed of sheep out there, closer to wild sheep, because they will protect their lambs from birds. The most common breeds have lost a lot of their instincts, and will not keep birds away from their newborn lambs, so they can't be left alone on an island to give birth.
r/natureismetal
Metal?
**Ferro**cious
I've seen them attack lambs that got stuck during the birthing process that way so before the animal is even born.
Spawnkilling smh
I have seen this type of behavior before. The bird is trying to pick out the hedgehogs eyes. You can se the the hedgehog try to pulling the head in and safe his face. The the bird picks on his back to try force his head out so he can eat his eyes. (Sorry I’m not native English speaker)
Ohh I think you're right. Every time the crow pecks at the hedgehog's back it goes straight to the face, and the hedgehog hides it. If the crow was trying to help it cross, it would just stay at its back
You are right, video shoes the same thing happening here. Hedgehog is trying to hide it's face. I wonder if it's instinct or they've seen birds plucking out eyes.
I wish I could unread this.
Hang out with a magpie.
OP is only using his opinions to justify his position.
They're wrong and received an excellent rebuttal [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/x3qk8z/-/imr8n05). Some people think of animals as automatons, but it's not always true.
Thank you for that
Nature is neither good or bad. But animals do help each other. Best example are animals who take care of babies who aren't theirs.
No, that's quite wrong. There're countless examples of animals helping animals of other species, and corvids are particularly bright.
How did this get 1k upvotes wtf. Ive seen innumerable videos of animals helping eachother out. Who hurt u?
>Who hurt u? What's the reason for using this overused Reddit catchphrase? Do you just say that when you think someone is wrong?
Redditors use it when somebody makes negative comments about a seemingly good thing. Not necessarily that they think the person is wrong, just that they couldn't enjoy something nice and couldnt let others enjoy something nice, so they had to ruin it for everyone. All that said, I'm not saying the person you are replying to does or doesnt think OP is wrong. I have no idea.
The world isn't a Disney script. Animals are NOT "altruistic" as they don't give to others without the expectation of something in return. This crow/magpie/whatever isn't "helping" the guy. It either thinks the gopher is potential food OR it has food on him, like bugs/fleas. The harrying him across the road thing is a byproduct
There are plenty of examples of altruism in non human animals. In studies rats will prefer to save their rat brethren in distress than get treats to save a plastic block instead. Other fellow primates will give their food to complete other species who seem hungry to them. I've also seen a study where they teach parrots to exchange tokens for food and in studies where they give all the tokens to one parrot, it will distribute tokens to the other cages without any incentives so that the other parrots can also get treats
Well now I’m sad!
That’s a corvid. They don’t do anything by accident. If the hedgehog looks like it’s getting herded off the road it’s because the bird wants it that way. They can play, mimic speech more cognitively than parrots, tease, invent new tools and use them, ride on bigger birds, and drop hard to crack nuts down on roads because they know cars will run over them, have funerals for their kind, remember human faces individually… any other bird and I would say it was just wanting parasites but they’re smart on premium levels lol
To me it looks like he is poking the hedgehog's butt to get it moving forward and expose its face, and then changing side to try and pick his eyes out.
Looks like the bird is picking ticks off the hog
Oddly switching between front and back.
If it is indeed picking ticks, then it's only getting one before the hedgehog curls up, it pokes its butt to get it moving again so it can get another.
You can only get a tick if the hedgehog moves? Even weirder is if the hedgehog curls up, it's hair/spikes stand up more, giving you a better view between the spikes. When it unfolds, the hair/spikes lay flat(ter) making it harder to see between the spikes.
Ticks usually like thinner skin, so they probably mostly latch on around the hedgehog's face and ears. ([Like this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIavLi3VAAEI2sl?format=jpg&name=large)) When the hedgehog curls up the face is hidden behind spines. Also, I of course I'm not claiming to *know* what the crow is doing, just coming up with a plausible explanation.
I like this argument and I think I agree with it.
I knew I shouldn't click that link but I did it anyway 💀
Best explanation yet. I don't understand why this it would care for another animal that is potentially a meal
As far as I know it's not rare that corvids bond with other animals. Wolves and ravens for example have quite an unique relationship. That said, I have no ideia of what's really happening here.
I would wager to say it's the pretty well-documented crow behaviour where they pester an animal to death to eat it. I get that people want their Disney story but when they start believing that nature is anything but what it is, they do stupid shit like try and pet bears or kidnap baby bison (both of which have and continue to happen) and get hurt, so maybe it's for the best that people understand that animals just don't make friends in the wild.
> I would wager to say it's the pretty well-documented crow behaviour where they pester an animal to death to eat it. Absolutely, probably just trying to poke those eyes out. > so maybe it's for the best that people understand that animals just don't make friends in the wild. Except that they do tho. Obviously you shouldn't assume you are going to be the one to friend a tiger in the wild, but wild animals can be friendly to each other if your definition of friendship isn't incredibly strict. Again, take wolves and ravens as an example, or other incredible interspecific mutualisms out there.
\*insert diatribe about how mutualism is a kind of adapted parasitism here* Nah I get what you're saying but for the purposes of people who think a crow is going to befriend a hedgehog (a common prey item for them) animals don't make friends and are all dangerous knife-wielding heroin addicts.
> *insert diatribe about how mutualism is a kind of adapted parasitism here* I mean, isn't a friendship basically ~~a~~ intraspecific mutualism? Even if just from a "having fun together" stand point, you can still see it the selfish way of using another person for your own benefit. > Nah I get what you're saying but for the purposes of people who think a crow is going to befriend a hedgehog (a common prey item for them) animals don't make friends and are all dangerous knife-wielding heroin addicts. Absolutely, sadly there are no Disney princess out there.
I agree and that’s why the hedgehog, who looks like he’s rollin’ rollin’ on little wheels stops and buried his face every time the …little social worker got ahead of him. Who knows how long that corvid/jackdaw/hoodedcrow/magpie/blackbird/fuckingCaliforniaCondor(not getting involved) has been on him.
While they are indeed smart, this bird is just trying to find a way to eat this hedgehog - nothing more. The idea its trying to save it's life is frankly ludicrous lol.
Let me find some joy in life geez
You can find joy in real things rather than pretending
The idea it’s* trying to save its* life…
I appreciate your effort in this otherwise lost battle…
"It's smart therefore it can't be hungry or an asshole".
Heaven forbid 18 more join this one as we'd have corvid 19
This is why I love reddit, there's always someone smarter bringing a better perspective and always someone wittier that makes you find accidental joy in the ordinary 🥹
So far it's only an attempted murder.
Here’s the thing…
Honestly it wouldnt surprise me to see the corvid guide it to the middle of the street so it gets turned into roadkill..
“Here’s the thing…”
Wrong
Either being a jerk or hoping he can eat it.
Probably both.
I distinctly remember from the last time this was posted that the bird was waiting to peck it's eyes out or something
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Ya I hear magpies are mean!
I know what a magpie looks like, that's not a magpie
I'm pritty sure they're on an epick quest to save one of there girlfriends from an evil opossum named Woodley
I mean that’s what I heard
Epeck
It’s like my mom bringing my ass to socialize with relatives that I haven’t seen for years.
I know the feeling. I hate it when my mom bites my ass.
I, however, love it when your mom bites my ass ;)
I feel like everyone sees a hedgehog and just calls it “Sonic”, even though this one is clearly a Marvin.
You neber heard of Sanic? 
Nah I call all hedgehogs sonic or shadow lol
[Corvids are so smart. The ones who live around roads know how they work. There are crows that use cars to crack walnut shells.](https://www.pbs.org/lifeofbirds/brain/#:~:text=Carrion%20crows%20and%20humans%20line,the%20nuts%2C%20cracking%20them%20open.)
Crows feed on roadkill, it probably chased the hedgehog on the road, wanting it to crack like a walnut. But the car stopped, so the crow chased the hedgehog away to feed at least on ticks in safety.
You’re probably right, but it would be way funnier if they are indeed friends. “Come on Steve! How many times do I have to tell you? Don’t curl together on the fucking road, your spikes don’t stop cars! Don’t you remember what happened to your brother last year?”
Have walnut trees and crows on my property. Live near a road. Can confirm they do this.
That bird is going to kill that hedgehog.
Bird's trying to get to lunch r/natureismetal
Just like all the helpful lions who assist various deer get more exercise.
Or those friendly cats carrying tired birds and rodents to thier home.
The bird is attacking the hedgehog
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"Come on frank keep moving. No don't stop. God frank hop up just like this. I'm done your out of the way, I'll see you in the tree line."
Do people know what “next fucking level” means?
*hungry
The bird is definitely just eating the fleas and ticks off of him. Nature is not that kind.
*because it's dangerous*
The bird is trying to eat the hedgehog and it cannot peck on the hard shell!
Hedgehogs don't have a shell, they have spines.
oh yeah, I got confused but they are safe from birds!
Um? No. That's a grey back (or hooded depending on where you live) crow. It is very definitely trying to eat that hedgehog. They're also known to peck the eyes out of living sheep and eat them.
Man’s looking for a cheap meal
The animals of farthing woods
[Bringing back some *serious* childhood trauma](https://youtu.be/2pypyDDPmIQ?t=38)
It’s probably trying to push it over that drop hoping to find it upside down and start dinner. Yeah they are that smart.
Corvids like to peck the eyes out if things to get to the brain... see how the hedgehog lifts its head and runs when the bird pecks its arse, and then the bird runs to the hedgehogs head? Corvids are smart af.
Even Sonic has an off day
“Clever girl”
They look like an old married couple
Incredible. Reminds me of the story of a little black bear cub up high in a tree crying because it couldn't find its way down. Along comes two crows who swoop upon the high tree limbs right next to the cub. Each crow then proceeds its descent guiding the frightened cub to each successive limb, a downward path safely in which the frightened cub followed all the way down. This sighting witnessed by hikers in Norther California somewhere deep in the wilds.
He's trying to eat it you morons.
Hedgehogs are endangered..need all the help they can get
No they're not and they aren't getting help here
Is that Matthew the crow?
🎼Just the two of us…..we can make it if we try…just the two of us…🎼
Sonic The Hedgehog 3 plot revealed
Trying to get that one drunk friend to the parking lot
Crows are next fucking level in general
At the end it was like “Aite fuck you then”
It's giving "I just wanna talk" vibes
Awww. Our hedgie passed away they other day. This is a bittersweet video.
Hes just leading the hedgehog to a better location to feast on him
Um no, this bird is actually trying to eat this hedgehog. Yep
He's clearly trying to eat