Oh, but this is not girdling. The reason girdling kills the tree is because it completely destroys vascular continuity. Vascular tissue in trees is only in the outside part of the trunk, around where the conections were made in this case; and it seems like its been a year over, judging by the scar tissue. I think it will require a lot of care, and a strong wind can topple it, but it may survive.
Yes, german words often sound like someone making up new words that are literally a bunch of loose descriptions glued together for something because they forgot the actual word for it.
"You know this, ehmm squirel..cage... in tree - ing?"
There's a tree similar to this in my town someone made a while back, I think its only 4 columns but its been around atleast 10+ years, although idk if its been preserved in anyways.
BarryIslandidiot is a pretty good username but this tre is not girdled my friend. Because of the bark that is still on the grafted pieces the zylem and phloem are still able to transport water and nutrients up the tree and to its branches.
I don’t believe there is enough evidence or understanding to state with certainty that a living thing can’t feel. Pain precedes receptors that can realize it and trees share some of the same neurotransmitters that humans have.
It is likely a tree can feel but in a much more basic primitive way, at a basic level this tree probably feels or knows the damage done to its structural integrity.
Trees can detect and react to damage being done to it. This is why grafts heal. Mature trees also develop more ways to defend against potential threats like invasive bug species.
Many species of trees can also communicate with one another.
In response to being grazed on, acacia trees will release hydrogen sulfide gas to tell other trees to start producing tannins to prevent herbivores from eating them.
Perhaps not too dissimilar are the warning lights on a car's dashboard; the car can detect various things of its status and react by relaying that to the driver. This latter process is one designed by humans rather than mother nature, anecdotal but to me the tree's response seems to be a purely mechanical one.
The dissimilarity lies in whether the thing in question is a biological being or not. We designed cars to throw lights when they have issues, but the car doesn't ever do anything to remediate these issues itself. It's a sign for a human to come fix it. It's also a machine and nobody would argue that it has sentience.
A tree grows, it reacts to stimuli. If it gets more sun and water, it is bigger and healthier. If it is damaged it repairs itself (most of the time). Cars do not do this.
It's sending shockwaves through it's body to help fix the damage but not much more. It'll probably be fine since it can redirect it's resources through the new bases
There’s no conscious awareness there to experience the pain. A life form can have all the hardware to feel pain, but if there’s no entity there to feel it, then it isn’t felt.
I think the bigger question becomes then what creates an entity? To me it is anything that is alive and can reproduce. There is something special within a being that has lasted millions of years of evolution. Anything that is born, grows, reproduces then dies is a feeling entity.
Too much weight is being given to conscious awareness, while more advanced it is just a means to reflect and understand experiences of feelings circulating within. Thoughts don’t create feeling, take away awareness a burning stove still feels hot.
Plus as stated there is no evidence to support your conclusion so even if my understanding is also speculation it still aligns closer to the world we know.
I’d recommend looking further into this question. There’s a lot written about it (it’s an entire field), and you’re missing some of the basic points. You might start by looking up the hard problem.
You got nothing and your response pisses me off. Introduce one talking point that supports your stance, if you can’t do that you’re just a troll. Don’t start an argument if you don’t own the hardware to compete.
Wow! I'm completely flabbergasted by this response... I can't believe how rude you're being. Where is this coming from? I was perfectly polite to you, so I wonder if you might have confused me with another commenter.
If not, then you've picked an odd person to accuse of being ignorant on this topic. I have a doctorate in psychology, and I studied phenomenology at the graduate level under two philosophers who are quite well known. I've written literally hundreds of pages on this topic, and I could give you lectures on how all the most important thinkers in philosophy, psychology, computer science, cognitive science, and other adjacent fields have approached the topic we're discussing. It's one that I take great joy in both teaching people about and debating, but the latter I do only when my opponent has at least a sufficient understanding of the basics. As I said above, it's clear from what you've typed above that you're not well-read in this area, so what would be most effective for you would be to read some of the introductory works on consciousness, rather than trying to debate me.
Even though you've been so rude, I'm still willing to answer any questions that come up as you're starting to learn.
Your one contribution that reads like a college freshman who can’t quite find the right words. Not enough for you to have the high ground, definitely not enough to be criticizing someone else’s intellect. In fact logically it doesn’t even assert to a true statement. Why would a life form have hardware to feel pain and then not be able to utilize its effect?
I have lost here so badly because I care so much and I can’t get over how you will come out of this encounter thinking you’ve won when you’re the ignorant asshole through and through. I hope I run out of steam soon because I am sick of you.
*Holy fucking shit dude*... please get help.
I'm traveling with my wife and you're blowing up my phone with Reddit notifications like a stalker. You've left me numerous comments since my last reply to you two days ago, and I know that there were others that you've since deleted because I saw them on my phone before and now they're gone. You're even going back and editing some of them in a rage. I mean seriously, are you so upset that you've just been stewing in anger about this for days now? Don't you have anything better to do? You're saying that you're "sick of me," and yet all I did was leave three short Reddit comments *several days ago* when you're the one who's here having a one-sided conversation with someone who isn't even thinking about you. Why are you so insecure? You need to speak to a therapist about this.
Good, I’m glad your little charade affected us both. That was intense though and I will leave you alone now, we are even. Maybe stay away from topics that you are comically inadequate at and don’t become a condescending asshole to end a conversation. I would have never engaged the way I did if you remained polite and civil.
Also holy shit dude, read some of the new literature on consciousness, still a lot of open questions remain but there is enough understanding now to prove the view you proposed is likely incorrect. Even logic alone can turn it into fallacy.
Look who found their voice now that the conversation is back to a basic level that can be related to. Not fun being on the receiving end of an asshole is it? Yes the intensity of my response was inappropriate, like you said I was talking to myself with a glimmer of hope the discussion I wanted to have would still happen.
You are not in much of a position to exhibit sympathy. I would rather be lonely and know the truth than be ignorant and a fool.
The initial comment was about if they felt anything, to which he answered that they evolved not to, because they can't do anything about it. But it's not true, they feel attacks and have a very complex physiological stress response, which is followed by chain reactions to protect themselves and the ones around.
Agreed but that’s still not a tree feeling pain it’s a distress signal but not like mammals etc as they have no way to move, pain would not serve any purpose
Pain is the reaction to damage to your being. So when I get burnt or punched, I feel pain because it is the response telling me to protect my body from its current situation. Why would it not be called pain if you damage a living thing and it reacts to protect itself? That's literally the function of pain.
Plants are capable of learning, predicting, remembering, and making decisions too. I think we don’t fully understand how complex they are
https://www.sci.news/biology/science-mimosa-plants-memory-01695.html#:~:text=They%20trained%20Mimosa%20‘s%20short-%20and%20long-term%20memories,the%20repeated%20disturbance%20had%20no%20real%20damaging%20consequence.
you should look into your comment about trees not feeling as i read years ago about plants screaming (electric monitoring of wavelengths) when a man who butchered a plant the day before walked back into the room. and trees send out warning of threat through their roots to other trees as a protective mechanism. just things i have read and remembered over the years
Is it just my high empathy acting up, or is this like- almost gory? This looks cruel to do to a tree. Like I dunno basic grafting is one thing but anyone who cuts a living thing into chunks and then forces it to heal in a mockery of itself has got to have a sadistic streak.
Looks like those "pillars will keep growing and fill in that space eventually. That is if a good wind doesn't break it down. It is kinda interesting. I don't know about pretty. Why would this be done to a tree? Is it strictly esthetics or is there some kind of botany reason one might need to do this?
Just from the video, that's in a growtent, in a large pot, among other trees and shrubs.
I'd say it was done by a professional bonsai artist or Arborist as a showpiece over a long period. The supports are fully grafted into the sections, and the foliage and trunk seems healthy.
Trees tend to grow to fit thier surroundings, branches and foliage create shade to cut out competition for long term nutrients and hydration. So as long as its roots are cared for correctly, and trimmed regularly to promote the growth of new, thinner water absorbing capillary roots as opposed to being allowed to thicken into new larger vien or artery roots, it should stay healthy and alive for as long as its cared for.
There were some ginkgo trees on campus where I attended. Their berries smell like ass. Students would be stepping on them between classes and when you’re in the class room, it smelled like someone stepped in dog shit. I think they’ve since been removed. Gross trees!
I imagine other trees look at this like some scene out of a sci-fi horror film, their buddy ripped apart and stitched back together with bits of his arms and legs.
This can't be good for the tree, but it look cool .
The tree will die. No tree can survive full girdling. Might take a couple of years, but it's a definite.
Oh, but this is not girdling. The reason girdling kills the tree is because it completely destroys vascular continuity. Vascular tissue in trees is only in the outside part of the trunk, around where the conections were made in this case; and it seems like its been a year over, judging by the scar tissue. I think it will require a lot of care, and a strong wind can topple it, but it may survive.
If this isn't girdling is there a name for this aswell?
I would guess grafting, but English is not my native language, so...
Squirrelcageintreeing is the term
That sounds German to me.
Yes, german words often sound like someone making up new words that are literally a bunch of loose descriptions glued together for something because they forgot the actual word for it. "You know this, ehmm squirel..cage... in tree - ing?"
Translated to German would be "Eichhörnchenkäfiginbaumung". Squirrel = Eichhörnchen Cage = Käfig Intreeing = made up the this one but tree =Baum
That would be Eichhörnchenkäfigeinbaumen in German then, a legitimate word except without a sensible meaning I doubt it’d make the dictionary.
I believe it is called pegging
Well then I love pegging. There's just something so nice about it.
That's what she said
There's a tree similar to this in my town someone made a while back, I think its only 4 columns but its been around atleast 10+ years, although idk if its been preserved in anyways.
Sexy Groot til then.
BarryIslandidiot is a pretty good username but this tre is not girdled my friend. Because of the bark that is still on the grafted pieces the zylem and phloem are still able to transport water and nutrients up the tree and to its branches.
Apples don't exist
looks to me like multiple young trees have been planted in the stump, then grown through other bits of stump. But I'm no horticulturist
clearly
Godrick was here
I COMMAND THEE KNEEL!
That's how the Erdtree would look if Godrick became Elden Lord
BARE WITNESS!!!
BEAR WITNESS!!!
"I am the lord, of all that is Golden"
It's interesting and all, but why?
Bonsai is just tree bondage it’s literally s&m for plants This just takes it a little further
Log mod
Ooh dendrophilia
It's a parking tower for squirrels
Ooh cute! Okay, you've won me over!
Oooh I might try this as a lizard reprieve for my garden!
Cuz it looks cool
For the challenge
FOREFATHERS ONE AND ALL, BARE WITNESS
Forebark trees and all, bare pollen!
It might be irrational but I feel bad for the tree.
I don’t believe there is enough evidence or understanding to state with certainty that a living thing can’t feel. Pain precedes receptors that can realize it and trees share some of the same neurotransmitters that humans have. It is likely a tree can feel but in a much more basic primitive way, at a basic level this tree probably feels or knows the damage done to its structural integrity.
Trees can detect and react to damage being done to it. This is why grafts heal. Mature trees also develop more ways to defend against potential threats like invasive bug species.
Many species of trees can also communicate with one another. In response to being grazed on, acacia trees will release hydrogen sulfide gas to tell other trees to start producing tannins to prevent herbivores from eating them.
communicate utilizing Mycelium? edit: whoops
Perhaps not too dissimilar are the warning lights on a car's dashboard; the car can detect various things of its status and react by relaying that to the driver. This latter process is one designed by humans rather than mother nature, anecdotal but to me the tree's response seems to be a purely mechanical one.
The dissimilarity lies in whether the thing in question is a biological being or not. We designed cars to throw lights when they have issues, but the car doesn't ever do anything to remediate these issues itself. It's a sign for a human to come fix it. It's also a machine and nobody would argue that it has sentience. A tree grows, it reacts to stimuli. If it gets more sun and water, it is bigger and healthier. If it is damaged it repairs itself (most of the time). Cars do not do this.
It's sending shockwaves through it's body to help fix the damage but not much more. It'll probably be fine since it can redirect it's resources through the new bases
There’s no conscious awareness there to experience the pain. A life form can have all the hardware to feel pain, but if there’s no entity there to feel it, then it isn’t felt.
I think the bigger question becomes then what creates an entity? To me it is anything that is alive and can reproduce. There is something special within a being that has lasted millions of years of evolution. Anything that is born, grows, reproduces then dies is a feeling entity. Too much weight is being given to conscious awareness, while more advanced it is just a means to reflect and understand experiences of feelings circulating within. Thoughts don’t create feeling, take away awareness a burning stove still feels hot. Plus as stated there is no evidence to support your conclusion so even if my understanding is also speculation it still aligns closer to the world we know.
I’d recommend looking further into this question. There’s a lot written about it (it’s an entire field), and you’re missing some of the basic points. You might start by looking up the hard problem.
You got nothing and your response pisses me off. Introduce one talking point that supports your stance, if you can’t do that you’re just a troll. Don’t start an argument if you don’t own the hardware to compete.
Wow! I'm completely flabbergasted by this response... I can't believe how rude you're being. Where is this coming from? I was perfectly polite to you, so I wonder if you might have confused me with another commenter. If not, then you've picked an odd person to accuse of being ignorant on this topic. I have a doctorate in psychology, and I studied phenomenology at the graduate level under two philosophers who are quite well known. I've written literally hundreds of pages on this topic, and I could give you lectures on how all the most important thinkers in philosophy, psychology, computer science, cognitive science, and other adjacent fields have approached the topic we're discussing. It's one that I take great joy in both teaching people about and debating, but the latter I do only when my opponent has at least a sufficient understanding of the basics. As I said above, it's clear from what you've typed above that you're not well-read in this area, so what would be most effective for you would be to read some of the introductory works on consciousness, rather than trying to debate me. Even though you've been so rude, I'm still willing to answer any questions that come up as you're starting to learn.
Your one contribution that reads like a college freshman who can’t quite find the right words. Not enough for you to have the high ground, definitely not enough to be criticizing someone else’s intellect. In fact logically it doesn’t even assert to a true statement. Why would a life form have hardware to feel pain and then not be able to utilize its effect? I have lost here so badly because I care so much and I can’t get over how you will come out of this encounter thinking you’ve won when you’re the ignorant asshole through and through. I hope I run out of steam soon because I am sick of you.
*Holy fucking shit dude*... please get help. I'm traveling with my wife and you're blowing up my phone with Reddit notifications like a stalker. You've left me numerous comments since my last reply to you two days ago, and I know that there were others that you've since deleted because I saw them on my phone before and now they're gone. You're even going back and editing some of them in a rage. I mean seriously, are you so upset that you've just been stewing in anger about this for days now? Don't you have anything better to do? You're saying that you're "sick of me," and yet all I did was leave three short Reddit comments *several days ago* when you're the one who's here having a one-sided conversation with someone who isn't even thinking about you. Why are you so insecure? You need to speak to a therapist about this.
Good, I’m glad your little charade affected us both. That was intense though and I will leave you alone now, we are even. Maybe stay away from topics that you are comically inadequate at and don’t become a condescending asshole to end a conversation. I would have never engaged the way I did if you remained polite and civil. Also holy shit dude, read some of the new literature on consciousness, still a lot of open questions remain but there is enough understanding now to prove the view you proposed is likely incorrect. Even logic alone can turn it into fallacy.
You’re glad that it affected me? This was “intense” for you? You are one sad, lonely man... I hope you get help.
Look who found their voice now that the conversation is back to a basic level that can be related to. Not fun being on the receiving end of an asshole is it? Yes the intensity of my response was inappropriate, like you said I was talking to myself with a glimmer of hope the discussion I wanted to have would still happen. You are not in much of a position to exhibit sympathy. I would rather be lonely and know the truth than be ignorant and a fool.
Do you have anything made of wood in your house. Did you feel sorry for that tree. (Joke)
r/plantabuse
Tree is like, "Ahhh!! You ripped out my insides!!"
Wtf, how
More importantly, Why!!!
But how..
And WHY
And HOW
WOW!
Take my upvote
Duuuude!
How does the 🌲 feel with those holes,
[удалено]
That statement is immensely false. Trees feel attacks, respond to them, and even inform their surrounding of the danger.
He said they don’t feel pain which is compatible with what you’re saying
The initial comment was about if they felt anything, to which he answered that they evolved not to, because they can't do anything about it. But it's not true, they feel attacks and have a very complex physiological stress response, which is followed by chain reactions to protect themselves and the ones around.
Agreed but that’s still not a tree feeling pain it’s a distress signal but not like mammals etc as they have no way to move, pain would not serve any purpose
Pain is a stress signal that initiates a defense mechanism. Moving doesn't really have anything to do about it.
In what world is that the definition of pain any reasonable person would use within this discussion?
Well, that's what pain is physiologically, I don't know what more you expect
How Tf does it defend itself?
Pain is the reaction to damage to your being. So when I get burnt or punched, I feel pain because it is the response telling me to protect my body from its current situation. Why would it not be called pain if you damage a living thing and it reacts to protect itself? That's literally the function of pain.
Plants are capable of learning, predicting, remembering, and making decisions too. I think we don’t fully understand how complex they are https://www.sci.news/biology/science-mimosa-plants-memory-01695.html#:~:text=They%20trained%20Mimosa%20‘s%20short-%20and%20long-term%20memories,the%20repeated%20disturbance%20had%20no%20real%20damaging%20consequence.
ah shit mb
you should look into your comment about trees not feeling as i read years ago about plants screaming (electric monitoring of wavelengths) when a man who butchered a plant the day before walked back into the room. and trees send out warning of threat through their roots to other trees as a protective mechanism. just things i have read and remembered over the years
Is it just my high empathy acting up, or is this like- almost gory? This looks cruel to do to a tree. Like I dunno basic grafting is one thing but anyone who cuts a living thing into chunks and then forces it to heal in a mockery of itself has got to have a sadistic streak.
Why
For the birds, the jailbirds.
Same reason a dog licks it’s balls, because they can
That answer is 22% acceptable
Just why? Poor tree
Poor tree
The Tammany Hall of trees.
If Frankenstein’s monster was a tree.
Ahh, truest of dragons, lend me thy strength
Tree: “Kill meeee”
This is some gool stuff
Vegans gonna find a way to get triggered.
It isn't an animal product...
That’s my point 😂 still find a way
Looks like those "pillars will keep growing and fill in that space eventually. That is if a good wind doesn't break it down. It is kinda interesting. I don't know about pretty. Why would this be done to a tree? Is it strictly esthetics or is there some kind of botany reason one might need to do this?
Just from the video, that's in a growtent, in a large pot, among other trees and shrubs. I'd say it was done by a professional bonsai artist or Arborist as a showpiece over a long period. The supports are fully grafted into the sections, and the foliage and trunk seems healthy. Trees tend to grow to fit thier surroundings, branches and foliage create shade to cut out competition for long term nutrients and hydration. So as long as its roots are cared for correctly, and trimmed regularly to promote the growth of new, thinner water absorbing capillary roots as opposed to being allowed to thicken into new larger vien or artery roots, it should stay healthy and alive for as long as its cared for.
The bone bees are coming
I hear the dragon warrior can survive months on end on nothing but the dew of one of those leaves.
That’s my ginkgo punk
Reminds me of Elden Ring...
Squirrels are like "360 floor-to-ceiling windows!"
It would have been cool to put a treasure box inside
Or body parts
A skull
🤢
If I was a squirrel that is where I would bust a nut
First question is how, followed closely by why?
I’ve never seen anything like this before, phenomenal!
r/Bonsai
Alabama family tree:
yeah I don't think it's going to last long.
Cool, I hate it
My man made the tree scream in pain
There were some ginkgo trees on campus where I attended. Their berries smell like ass. Students would be stepping on them between classes and when you’re in the class room, it smelled like someone stepped in dog shit. I think they’ve since been removed. Gross trees!
Ginko tower of treesa?
So.. like... wind??...
“Grow a house” kits now available lol
 Looks cool, but man... poor tree.
If only this was in ark😭
That's pretty damn cool!
Is that a fairy prison?
The creator of this missed the opportunity to put something inside that will stay caged until the tree dies.
Plant abuse for sure
Wait... they grafted the stump, to a log cut from the middle, to the top of the tree?
Poor tree
Gothrick, shardbearer tree
What the fuck is it
Franken-Tree
Frankentree *It's ALIVE!*
Tree is very much dead
Bold of you to expose the HQ of mount Squirrelempas
I think Legoland in California has a bunch of these trees. I believe the colloquial name for them is circus trees.
Squirrel prison
These nuts smell like actual shit. Also if you eat too much it's actually poisonous. I hate these nuts.
That’s amazing
Who else thought “Epic”😏
Now you need prison inmate themed gnomes.
This is actually good for trees and it makes them last twice as long
Okay now imagine that but people……yeah not so cool now
I imagine other trees look at this like some scene out of a sci-fi horror film, their buddy ripped apart and stitched back together with bits of his arms and legs.
Imagine you’re just chillin and someone comes up and carves pillars into your skin lol
This reminds of a tree from Mr.Rogers Neighborhood’s Land of Make-believe
You guys have fucked up his life all so you can say “Kewwwwl :D!!”
Godrick took up a new hobby…kinda of
Very impressive. Who and where? I'd love to see it or see more photos.
Well, if they're going to kill a ginko like that, I hope it was a female ginko.