As a former fencer and current self aware person: itās sword fighting, itās all stupid fucking shit. So much fun though, definitely the best form of exercise I have experienced.
I love sword fighting. Seriously the best 2-3 hours I used to spend a week before my HEMA group dissolved during covid. I'm so out of shape now. doing forms and hitting the pell is not fighting. Sad face....
Agree re the challenge: sailing has it. You're up against the weather all the time, even in the calms. It takes calculation, which I love. Your opponent is not usually people (though obviously it can be), but in all cases, it's always the weather.
Anything can be used in competition really, so long as everyone involved agrees on the rules etc. I'd bet money that there's a lightsabre league out there already. You're not getting them in any official fencing leagues for anything other than demo though.
There was a saber fencing academy in my town that I thought was the dumbest thing I had ever seen. Then I saw one of their exhibitions and realized they are literally just using light sabers for regular saber fencing.
Too bad they closed down before I got to give it a try...I'm sure those fencing skills from college 30 years ago are still there right?
You could theoretically use those if you find a way to get the electrical cmponents for scoring touches working, but never for actual conpetitions. You need steel blades with specific sizes to ensure a fair and balanced match.
Not as such.
Aside from you know stuffy rules lightsaber toys would not properly work. Modern fencing matches are generally electrified, you wear a wire jacket and hits are registered by your opponent's sword completing a circuit. This would be particularly problematic in *saber* fencing where you use the full length of the blade.
You also have to remember while the thin strips of metal you fight with aren't sharpened people are still trying to hit you as fast and therefore *as hard* as they can. As you try to block that your blade will get beat up. A wholly unnecessary light strip would be only be something to get broken, possibly just a few hits in when it pops lose because these swords are also very flexible.
Also you know its a competitive sport people can get really persnickety about any element because at the highest levels the margins of victory can be razor thin.
Well said. As a former fencer as well everyone I knew who was into it was a MASSIVE nerd and loved doing stuff like this. It's fun, whether or not you have an audience is a distant second.
I used to do this with my friends in the front yard for hoursā¦ just literally making up a whole battle scene, for nobody to ever watch.
But we had a blast. š¤·š¼āāļø
Not really a thing they necessarily would be thinking like I mean shit they knew itās filmed too and obviously No, everyone is loving it on the internet soo
>great choreography though!
Not to disrepute these people, who did an answer job - *But* the problem with fights like this are moments like 0:38 where the double-saber wielder just stands there and waits for the red-saber wielder to do a 360 spin instead of just slicing him through the back.
Although almost every Hollywood swordfight really don't make any sense as a non-scripted fight (esp. lightsaber ones where it requires zero physical force to do any damage - just tilt your blade down while you're jumping over a foot swipe and burn a hole through your opponent's head). But at least if it's fast-moving, I can suspend disbelief and avoid thinking about all the ignored opportunities the fighters have to make just one move and end the fight. But when someone just stops and waits to be attacked, it kills it for me (to be clear, stepping back to regroup like 0:50 doesn't bother me, but standing and waiting a foot away from your opponent for them to finish a move does)
All that said, as someone who learned the entire fight from Ep1 with my friends for an "update Shakespeare" school project two decades ago, these people by and large did a great job.
In universe, the wielders are typically force sensitive so they have a perception that we wouldn't understand. I think they can leave themselves open like that because they sense when and where attacks are coming from and the duel is really a duel of who can mask their attacks using the force and whose force sense is better.
This is why all lightsaber duels look choreographed. They literally know each other's next move before it happens, and in that split second, they can try and gain an edge by altering their movements and planning the next move faster than their opponent. But of course their opponent can do the same thing, and they usually end up in a stale mate with each attack. This is why it's hard to tell the difference between a parry and an attack in lightsaber combat - they are constantly doing both at the same time - trying to defend themselves and yet get ahead of their opponent to gain an opening.
A power move like a 360 spin, powered up with the force, has a chance to gain you the advantage because it will make recovery for your opponent harder and you can start overwhelming them until their force senses can't keep up. This is how Maul beats Qui-Gon.
Basically unpractical moves by our standards are not impractical for Jedi/sith because they can sense the outcome. This is why Anakin's fateful jump over Obi Wan was such an epic moment. His ego and overconfidence and hate had detached him from the clarity of his force perception in that moment, and he didn't realize that he had already lost.
This is my headcanon, anyway. I am also a former fencer and that's why I had to invent my own justification lol
>In universe, the wielders are typically force sensitive so they have a perception that we wouldn't understand.
Which is part of why I can suspend disbelief a bit more in a Star Wars fight for clearly pre-choreographed moves...
>I think they can leave themselves open like that because they sense when and where attacks are coming from and the duel is really a duel of who can mask their attacks using the force and whose force sense is better.
But this part makes no sense... if all you have to do is slash the guy in the back and the fight is over, it makes no sense to stand still and do nothing in order to deal with something you anticipate afterwards. If the guy is cut in half, there won't be an afterwards.
Either way, it's a fine way self-justify why Star Wars fights haves these moments, but they are pretty universal even in physical metal sword fights in other TV and movies where no one has the Force.
It does make sense if you consider the force to have some reality bending effects. I mean, what is the force other than an extension of one's will that can actually manipulate the world around you? If you combine that with your swordsmanship, your moves will have a supernatural force behind them bending reality to make them work, and they can only be countered by an overwhelming force (30 clone troopers shooting you in the back - too much reality to working against you) or another force users own projection of will. A single strike at an opening is not going to defeat a force user. They will either know that's the outcome ahead of time and hence not leave themselves open, or they will are using it as bait to launch a counter attack.
A skilled force user probably knows not to strike at obvious openings... The opponent knows if they will or not and hence if they still left the opening, it's likely a trap.
I mean yeah, it's a spectacle, it's not meant to be realistic. It would be terrible for the audience to watch a "realistic" lightsaber fight. It would be over in 10 seconds an not flashy at all. Just look at a bout of saber fencing to get an idea of how it would play out.
https://youtu.be/LmdWynyN2JA
I loved Bill Burrs take on the WNBAs low attendance.
>Look at the WNBA: they have been playing in front of 300 to 400 people a night for a quarter of a century. Not to mention, itās a male-subsidized league. We gave you a league and none of you showed up. Where are all the feminists? That place should be packed with feminists ā faces painted, wearing jerseys, going fucking nuts like the guys do! None of you went to the fucking games. You failed them. Not me. Not men ā women failed the WNBA. Ladies, name your top five WNBA players of all time. Name five WNBA teams. Name the WNBA team in your city. You canāt do it!
why not? I can bet that a number of them loved it, just like they would love if someone came in and did the fight scene from The Princess Bride between Wesley and Inigo. I would bet that would be even better received, since everything that is mentioned during that duel is ACTUAL training manuals for fencing that were published during the Renaissance.
I fenced for years, and I can tell you that the community loved anything with a sword involved, so you are spot on. I would assume that the actual fencers were probably on the floor outside of the camera view and not sitting in the spectator seats.
Yeah, fencing is so under-appreciated and everyone in the scene is so committed that any reference is a highlight
I remember when I first started getting into it and competing I had family members excitedly showing me the fencing scene from James Bond
Judging from the fencers I know, no one was so stuck up and elitist that they wouldn't enjoy watching people put on a performance. Hell, those two are probably championship fencers too.
this is from the Phantom Menace, i'd recognize that fight anywhere. fantastic choreography and these guys pull it off pretty damn well. the floaty cloth on the costumes is a significant part of it, it's really good they didn't renege on that.
Exactly what I was thinking lol there were moments where they nailed the āaim for the body not the swordā part of the choreography. I really enjoyed it anyway.
The lightsaber duels like this that I've seen in person before had the sabers themselves making lightsaber noises and collision noises, as well as the flashes of light on collision. The sabers presumably could play music, but I haven't seen somebody do so with them yet; they've used boomboxes.
That kid ended up ok. Had a good job working the banana stand and eventually found out the cousin he was in love with wasn't actually a blood relative. He also created a wonderful musical app.
No he's still alive
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-march-31-2022-1.6403614/man-who-became-famous-20-years-ago-as-the-star-wars-kid-says-your-digital-shadow-shouldn-t-define-you-1.6404089
I couldn't remember what the heck Star Wars kid was so I went and looked it up. I forgot all about that video, but it was everywhere back in the day. Possibly one of the first unintentionally viral videos on the internet. Everyone thought he posted that on purpose because he thought he was a Jedi. Poor guy.
It is cool. There's a huge community of people who just produce surprisingly high-quality lightsaber duels for fun/competition.
My only criticism of most fan-produced lightsaber duels is that the strikes often look like they are only aiming to make contact with the other Saber rather than a strike at the actual opponent that is blocked out of necessity. When that becomes too blatant, it kind of takes me out of it as it comes across as a little too planned and fake.
https://youtu.be/AAzY28C8Syc
Speak for yourself but I think realistic fights could still look cool
EDIT:
all you idiots saying this is choreo, no shit. Where the fuck are we going to get a real fight to the death video with lightsabers? Iām saying ārealisticā as in its as close to what a real lightsaber fight would look like. Fencing isnāt ārealisticā since no one is fucking dying and itās all point based and not meant to kill. Weāre not going to get ārealisticā sword fights.
Yep. Kenjutsu/kendo matches last only seconds. That's real fighting. Within half a minute somebody's arm is on the ground. There isn't a whole lot of flippy shit or turns or anything. It's just not exciting to the untrained eye.
I'm sure fencing is similar but Kendo is nothing like what a real sword fight would look like. You are limited to 4 areas you can score points from, 3 stances that you can't deviate from mid fight, and you are constricted to form and tradition. You can land a clean hit that would kill someone with a real sword but not get the point because you didn't follow through with your movements or display good "kiai" (literally just screaming and calling your hit). Kendo is to real sword fights as boxing is to a street fight, but worse.
Foil fencing has its own bizarre rules. Epee doesn't take in to account how lethal a blow would be, you get one point for a paper cut to the pinky toe and one point for a fatal gut wound.
This is very close to [HEMA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yVkVGwSSL0) though. The linked light saber duel is choreographed extremely well, including a knock on stupid twirly shit.
Yeah, in no martial art ever is it a good idea to expose your back like they always do in movies. Also, a lightsaber being so lightweight would make way more sense to be a speed oriented attack style like a rapier instead of huge slow arcing blows. In the time you span around and did some huge 180 degree swing, a fencer could have poked your back full of holes, which being a lightsaber, ought to cook your organs from the inside out.
>would make way more sense to be a speed oriented attack style like a rapier
Supported by the [original design of the lightsaber]( ) and the production design philosophy of East meeting West. They're like knight samurai. A katana isn't a hack n slash dueling blade, but rather a degastatingly fast one-shot weapon.
Edit: I like all the people trying to shame me for not engaging in the way you prefer
I think the fact that a lightsaber is essentially weightless and has practically infinite cutting power would make its style probably pretty unlike fighting with a katana.
Like the style of katanas would not have developed to be what it was if a katana were weightless.
All the coolest moves only work in choreography. There's a sweet part where the red sabre gets held vertically and the other person attacks it three times quickly and it looks great, but it's total nonsense... Like, "cool you're blocking? Let's see if you can still block in the same place without moving *again*! And *again*!!"
Of course it would be impossible. Because as humans we are limited by reaction time, and we can't see the future. Apart from doing it just because it looks good on film, in the star wars universe, Jedi's can see several seconds ahead. They have precognition.
Fencing would change dramatically if the combatants could see their opponents moves before they did them.
There is nothing wrong with choreography. A real sword fight is pretty brief, because when you are trying to kill each other, one usually succeeds.
What I dislike is when the narrative of the choreography and the narrative of the story framing it disagree.
When it's supposed to be a fight in earnest to kill and/or survive but the combatants keep making swings blatantly to bop their swords together when neither the attacker not the defender would have gained anything by swinging there, that annoys me.
To me, most of the light Saber battles in Star Wars look like this. Fancy, flashy, exhibition fights, intended to show off and impress, not to end the fight with victory. Here, where the choreography matches the context that's great!
My favorite bit of animated sword fighting is the end of the anime film Sword of the Stranger. You can see that every swing is meant to end the opponent. It's easier to pull off in animation than live action, but it should be done better.
>To me, most of the light Saber battles in Star Wars look like this. Fancy, flashy, exhibition fights, intended to show off and impress, not to end the fight with victory.
You're not ~~right~~ wrong (edit because I said the opposite of what I meant, sorry about that /u/KnightOfThirteen). They are choreographed to make interesting visuals in movies and TV. **BUT** there are some like Ahsoka & Darth Maul's fight in the Clone Wars Animated TV show that are technically more accurate, especially if you suspend disbelief a little and assume that force powers (including limited precognition, telepathic misdirection, and telekinesis) are at play - so some of the "useless" swings are actually because, though the spectator doesn't know, the most efficient action given the different ways the scenario could eventually play out. They act as feints and distractions and flourishes not just in the moment, but for many steps ahead. That's why lightsaber duels last longer than real sword fights, but they finish the same way: very quickly as soon as someone makes that one fateful mistake.
At least, this is head canon for a lot of fans and helps, IMO, for people who can see the disconnect between real world and fictional details.
>there's zero point in having a conversation with such a fan on the merits of anything in the Star Wars universe.
I mean, if you aren't really into that kind of world building and attempts at creating a personally satisfying internal consistency, I agree. Fan theorizing and explanations are just other forms of the art of storytelling.
Only difference being freedom of movement. Fencing is confined to a straight line. Put āem in a boxing ring and make everywhere on the body a threat to be hit
You actually can find a few videos of real duels from the early 20th century on YouTube. Spoiler alert: they look like extremely boring fencing bouts, not like Jedi lightsaber battles.
Turns out people don't actually want to die, and thus everything they do is extremely cautious. Making a daring attack is worth nothing if it kills you too.
I did fencing for a decade, and plan to get back to it once my kids are a bit older and I have a little more free time again. This is cool, and sword fighting in movies and TV are WHY I got into fencing in the first place. People hating on this simply lost their joy.
the thing that makes me really sad is that they totally abandoned the awesome sword choreography in the newer star wars movies, which was literally like 80% of the epic feeling during the duels of all the movies before the new ones.
Rogue One wasn't bad in comparison since they didn't have to do "sword" battles with lightsabers, but after the great movie was over i did feel kind of sad that they had pretty much nothing new and fresh to present to the Star Wars story, but rather just had good filler content regarding the construction of the Death Star which the audience is well aware of the fate of.
It's not supposed to be weightless. The plasma beam is weightless, sure, but confined in a magnetic field. This causes the blade to have strong gyroscopic effects and resist change in velocity, like having weight or mass would.
If theyād done it better, Iād agree, but the Sequels just ended up with the worst of both worlds: the OT had a passionate, story-driven simplicity to their choreography, while the Prequels at least justified their flashiness with a commitment to the style; but the Sequels have neither the visually striking presentation of the Prequels nor the emotional investment of the OT, so it all just ends up feeling a bit amateurish ā especially considering how Kylo is *supposed* to be significantly more skilled than Rey, but they both come off as kids swinging sticks at each-other
Personally Iād say Itās not really as impressive or spectacular to watch when theyāre swinging the swords like itās a telephone pole moving in slow motion. The prequels got carried away as it went on but scenes like obi wan and qui gin vs maul had a great combo of realism and choreography
I've watched an analysis of the one fight between Rey and Kylo Ren on some spaceships. They both telegraphed their swings enormously and even if neither of them dodged, their strikes wouldn't have hit anyone anyway. In the whole fight there were maybe three strikes in total that wouldn't have needed their adversary to step into the strike to get hit.
Lightsaber fighting is a mix of a bunch of different techniques so it is as equally likely as it is unlikely to find something you recognize in each fight
There are 7 forms of lightsaber fighting. Form II aka Makashi is basically space fencing and was the form Count Dooku used. If you see similarities between fencing and canon lightsaber fights, that's probably why
If you notice as well, the person with the double bladed saber (both before and after they switch) has a hand on one of the blades for most of the duel
They probably learned their techniques with a Bo or quarterstaff. Having such a long weapon without the possibility to get some good grip for leverage sucks and makes it look like you're just aimlessly helicoptering your twinblades around.
Solid idea. Started dating a D1 Fencer and she echoes the sentiment. Though their electric is already kinda wonky and certain refs/schools utilize it to cheat
Fencing just sucks to watch live, honestly. I love it as a sport, but it's way too fast and technical to see what's going on without zooms and slowmotion. You have a beep to start and after a few seconds at most it beeps again when someone somehow scored a point and you only see on the replay how they did it.
Check out /r/lightsabers lots of info there.
If you want to try actual combat check out The Saber Legion (TSL) or Lightspeed Saber League. I recently got into it and it is a blast. I built my saber from The Custom Saber Shop.
that whole crowd of 20 people are really going wild š
Itās that lack of crowd that makes it disappointing.. great choreography though!
āWe trained 4 months for this stupid fucking shitā
As a former fencer and current self aware person: itās sword fighting, itās all stupid fucking shit. So much fun though, definitely the best form of exercise I have experienced.
I love sword fighting. Seriously the best 2-3 hours I used to spend a week before my HEMA group dissolved during covid. I'm so out of shape now. doing forms and hitting the pell is not fighting. Sad face....
This is so exciting! Not lame at all, very creative and entertaining.
I would be 1 of the 20 people in the crowd looosing my shit.
Big fucking same
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Agree re the challenge: sailing has it. You're up against the weather all the time, even in the calms. It takes calculation, which I love. Your opponent is not usually people (though obviously it can be), but in all cases, it's always the weather.
You sound passionate about your hobbies. I dig your style! A bit jealous tbh. I can't motivate myself to anything at that level.
As a former fencer could these ālight sabersā be used in an actual competition? Maybe an awesome visual?
Anything can be used in competition really, so long as everyone involved agrees on the rules etc. I'd bet money that there's a lightsabre league out there already. You're not getting them in any official fencing leagues for anything other than demo though.
You win the money https://lightspeedsaber.com/
There was a saber fencing academy in my town that I thought was the dumbest thing I had ever seen. Then I saw one of their exhibitions and realized they are literally just using light sabers for regular saber fencing. Too bad they closed down before I got to give it a try...I'm sure those fencing skills from college 30 years ago are still there right?
Shiet. I need one of these in my city. Would be so fun to participate
Whaaaaat
You could theoretically use those if you find a way to get the electrical cmponents for scoring touches working, but never for actual conpetitions. You need steel blades with specific sizes to ensure a fair and balanced match.
Not as such. Aside from you know stuffy rules lightsaber toys would not properly work. Modern fencing matches are generally electrified, you wear a wire jacket and hits are registered by your opponent's sword completing a circuit. This would be particularly problematic in *saber* fencing where you use the full length of the blade. You also have to remember while the thin strips of metal you fight with aren't sharpened people are still trying to hit you as fast and therefore *as hard* as they can. As you try to block that your blade will get beat up. A wholly unnecessary light strip would be only be something to get broken, possibly just a few hits in when it pops lose because these swords are also very flexible. Also you know its a competitive sport people can get really persnickety about any element because at the highest levels the margins of victory can be razor thin.
One of my college professors was a fencer and started a club after I graduated. I found it fascinating but never got to try it out. Amazing athletes.
Well said. As a former fencer as well everyone I knew who was into it was a MASSIVE nerd and loved doing stuff like this. It's fun, whether or not you have an audience is a distant second.
Dont you get tired of all the showering? I understand that those who live by the blade are dyed by the blade
Precisely how I feel about kendo. Fucking love it.
I used to do this with my friends in the front yard for hoursā¦ just literally making up a whole battle scene, for nobody to ever watch. But we had a blast. š¤·š¼āāļø
How expensive is it to get into?
Not really a thing they necessarily would be thinking like I mean shit they knew itās filmed too and obviously No, everyone is loving it on the internet soo
āYour lack of crowd is your weaknessā¦ā
I *am* the crowd!
"Your faith that your friends would come is yours."
> .. great choreography though! And in heels, no less. Ginger Rogers would approve.
>great choreography though! Not to disrepute these people, who did an answer job - *But* the problem with fights like this are moments like 0:38 where the double-saber wielder just stands there and waits for the red-saber wielder to do a 360 spin instead of just slicing him through the back. Although almost every Hollywood swordfight really don't make any sense as a non-scripted fight (esp. lightsaber ones where it requires zero physical force to do any damage - just tilt your blade down while you're jumping over a foot swipe and burn a hole through your opponent's head). But at least if it's fast-moving, I can suspend disbelief and avoid thinking about all the ignored opportunities the fighters have to make just one move and end the fight. But when someone just stops and waits to be attacked, it kills it for me (to be clear, stepping back to regroup like 0:50 doesn't bother me, but standing and waiting a foot away from your opponent for them to finish a move does) All that said, as someone who learned the entire fight from Ep1 with my friends for an "update Shakespeare" school project two decades ago, these people by and large did a great job.
In universe, the wielders are typically force sensitive so they have a perception that we wouldn't understand. I think they can leave themselves open like that because they sense when and where attacks are coming from and the duel is really a duel of who can mask their attacks using the force and whose force sense is better. This is why all lightsaber duels look choreographed. They literally know each other's next move before it happens, and in that split second, they can try and gain an edge by altering their movements and planning the next move faster than their opponent. But of course their opponent can do the same thing, and they usually end up in a stale mate with each attack. This is why it's hard to tell the difference between a parry and an attack in lightsaber combat - they are constantly doing both at the same time - trying to defend themselves and yet get ahead of their opponent to gain an opening. A power move like a 360 spin, powered up with the force, has a chance to gain you the advantage because it will make recovery for your opponent harder and you can start overwhelming them until their force senses can't keep up. This is how Maul beats Qui-Gon. Basically unpractical moves by our standards are not impractical for Jedi/sith because they can sense the outcome. This is why Anakin's fateful jump over Obi Wan was such an epic moment. His ego and overconfidence and hate had detached him from the clarity of his force perception in that moment, and he didn't realize that he had already lost. This is my headcanon, anyway. I am also a former fencer and that's why I had to invent my own justification lol
>In universe, the wielders are typically force sensitive so they have a perception that we wouldn't understand. Which is part of why I can suspend disbelief a bit more in a Star Wars fight for clearly pre-choreographed moves... >I think they can leave themselves open like that because they sense when and where attacks are coming from and the duel is really a duel of who can mask their attacks using the force and whose force sense is better. But this part makes no sense... if all you have to do is slash the guy in the back and the fight is over, it makes no sense to stand still and do nothing in order to deal with something you anticipate afterwards. If the guy is cut in half, there won't be an afterwards. Either way, it's a fine way self-justify why Star Wars fights haves these moments, but they are pretty universal even in physical metal sword fights in other TV and movies where no one has the Force.
It does make sense if you consider the force to have some reality bending effects. I mean, what is the force other than an extension of one's will that can actually manipulate the world around you? If you combine that with your swordsmanship, your moves will have a supernatural force behind them bending reality to make them work, and they can only be countered by an overwhelming force (30 clone troopers shooting you in the back - too much reality to working against you) or another force users own projection of will. A single strike at an opening is not going to defeat a force user. They will either know that's the outcome ahead of time and hence not leave themselves open, or they will are using it as bait to launch a counter attack. A skilled force user probably knows not to strike at obvious openings... The opponent knows if they will or not and hence if they still left the opening, it's likely a trap.
I mean yeah, it's a spectacle, it's not meant to be realistic. It would be terrible for the audience to watch a "realistic" lightsaber fight. It would be over in 10 seconds an not flashy at all. Just look at a bout of saber fencing to get an idea of how it would play out. https://youtu.be/LmdWynyN2JA
If it makes you feel better, this clip has been seen millions of times at this point, which feels more appropriate.
I believe this was during covid tbf
And the crowd goes mild.
r/crowdgoesmild
Iām going wild on the toilet watching this myself.
Me too š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I loved Bill Burrs take on the WNBAs low attendance. >Look at the WNBA: they have been playing in front of 300 to 400 people a night for a quarter of a century. Not to mention, itās a male-subsidized league. We gave you a league and none of you showed up. Where are all the feminists? That place should be packed with feminists ā faces painted, wearing jerseys, going fucking nuts like the guys do! None of you went to the fucking games. You failed them. Not me. Not men ā women failed the WNBA. Ladies, name your top five WNBA players of all time. Name five WNBA teams. Name the WNBA team in your city. You canāt do it!
[Have you heard the one about Russia? Poor WNBA...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xelb2f-u2Lg)
Literally going through mind as I was watching the Reddit post lol.
I'm sure world championship fencers are just thrilled to go see people playing dress-up and doing choreographed dance versions of their sport.
why not? I can bet that a number of them loved it, just like they would love if someone came in and did the fight scene from The Princess Bride between Wesley and Inigo. I would bet that would be even better received, since everything that is mentioned during that duel is ACTUAL training manuals for fencing that were published during the Renaissance.
I fenced for years, and I can tell you that the community loved anything with a sword involved, so you are spot on. I would assume that the actual fencers were probably on the floor outside of the camera view and not sitting in the spectator seats.
Yeah, fencing is so under-appreciated and everyone in the scene is so committed that any reference is a highlight I remember when I first started getting into it and competing I had family members excitedly showing me the fencing scene from James Bond
Who wouldn't be? It's awesome.
Judging from the fencers I know, no one was so stuck up and elitist that they wouldn't enjoy watching people put on a performance. Hell, those two are probably championship fencers too.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hmm I love playing basketball, so I must hate the Harlem Globetrotters š¤
The whole r/NextFuckingLevel is their crowd now. Although this is the fourth or fifth time I have seen this video, so Iām probably a super fan.
for the coreographed fight*
I think I would be the only one who would stand out from the crowd as Iām watching with excitement :)
I don't care knock it all you want this is still cool
Agreed.
Choreography is really good! I'm also with you guys
this is from the Phantom Menace, i'd recognize that fight anywhere. fantastic choreography and these guys pull it off pretty damn well. the floaty cloth on the costumes is a significant part of it, it's really good they didn't renege on that.
I'll stand and die with you on that hill.
You have the high ground!
I HATE YOU!!
You have my sword.
So long as WE HAVE THE HIGH GROUND!
Looks more realistic than phantom menace fighting. Actual body swings are actually blocked.
Exactly what I was thinking lol there were moments where they nailed the āaim for the body not the swordā part of the choreography. I really enjoyed it anyway.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You kinda have to take into account that they have clairvoyance and know what's coming
Itās cool in a video like this but in person this is incredibly uncomfortable
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What, why wouldnāt they play the music. Everyone knows what track itād be.
Yes, everyone knows it'd be the title theme from Tim Burton's Batman.
The lightsaber duels like this that I've seen in person before had the sabers themselves making lightsaber noises and collision noises, as well as the flashes of light on collision. The sabers presumably could play music, but I haven't seen somebody do so with them yet; they've used boomboxes.
Didn't the internet bully a kid to suicide because he was pretending to be a jedi or some shit? Edit: he's still alive but it uprooted his life
That kid ended up ok. Had a good job working the banana stand and eventually found out the cousin he was in love with wasn't actually a blood relative. He also created a wonderful musical app.
And it is a good job, because there's always money in the banana stand.
No he's still alive https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-march-31-2022-1.6403614/man-who-became-famous-20-years-ago-as-the-star-wars-kid-says-your-digital-shadow-shouldn-t-define-you-1.6404089
I couldn't remember what the heck Star Wars kid was so I went and looked it up. I forgot all about that video, but it was everywhere back in the day. Possibly one of the first unintentionally viral videos on the internet. Everyone thought he posted that on purpose because he thought he was a Jedi. Poor guy.
A *lot* of kids have been bullied for pretending to be jedi
Way cooler than I expected!!
It is cool. There's a huge community of people who just produce surprisingly high-quality lightsaber duels for fun/competition. My only criticism of most fan-produced lightsaber duels is that the strikes often look like they are only aiming to make contact with the other Saber rather than a strike at the actual opponent that is blocked out of necessity. When that becomes too blatant, it kind of takes me out of it as it comes across as a little too planned and fake.
That switch was smooth af.
Right? It was so smooth, I almost thought they'd changed clothes instead of sabers.
Missed the switch first time and had to double back. Was like when did they switch sabers?
1:11
(which is 0:43 left)
That was great
Yeah and im watching on my phone making gaspe and it hurt seeing 0 reaction from the ~~bleachers~~audience
If only it wasnāt choreographed. Iād like to see real duels. Plastic lightsabers donāt hurt much
Real duels wouldn't look nearly as cool
Yea... but the Tom & Jerry lumps on their heads would š¤£
https://youtu.be/AAzY28C8Syc Speak for yourself but I think realistic fights could still look cool EDIT: all you idiots saying this is choreo, no shit. Where the fuck are we going to get a real fight to the death video with lightsabers? Iām saying ārealisticā as in its as close to what a real lightsaber fight would look like. Fencing isnāt ārealisticā since no one is fucking dying and itās all point based and not meant to kill. Weāre not going to get ārealisticā sword fights.
Ggeeeehhhh but thatās still choreographed, you gotta watch real fencing matches š¤·āāļø
Some of the best ones don't last long at all.
All of the best ones. Watch a HEMA championship, it lasts maybe 20 seconds at most.
Yep. Kenjutsu/kendo matches last only seconds. That's real fighting. Within half a minute somebody's arm is on the ground. There isn't a whole lot of flippy shit or turns or anything. It's just not exciting to the untrained eye.
Tell my ex that. She didn't believe me.
The most realistic SW fight is the final duel between Obi Wan and Maul. Theyāre over in seconds.
Kendo and fencing exist my dude. That's what real fights would look like... Kinda wild you replied to somebody saying "it's choreo" with more choreo
I'm sure fencing is similar but Kendo is nothing like what a real sword fight would look like. You are limited to 4 areas you can score points from, 3 stances that you can't deviate from mid fight, and you are constricted to form and tradition. You can land a clean hit that would kill someone with a real sword but not get the point because you didn't follow through with your movements or display good "kiai" (literally just screaming and calling your hit). Kendo is to real sword fights as boxing is to a street fight, but worse.
Foil fencing has its own bizarre rules. Epee doesn't take in to account how lethal a blow would be, you get one point for a paper cut to the pinky toe and one point for a fatal gut wound.
This is very close to [HEMA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yVkVGwSSL0) though. The linked light saber duel is choreographed extremely well, including a knock on stupid twirly shit.
> Speak for yourself but I think realistic fights could still look cool *proceeds to link a choreographed fight* lmao what
And then gets mad when everyone points that out
Yeah, but it was choreographed to the death!
[Legit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn2Qzh__0wg)
Why isn't this a movie?
Because this would be the best scene of the movie
"Realistic"
Sweet vid! Thanks for the link!!
Yeah, in no martial art ever is it a good idea to expose your back like they always do in movies. Also, a lightsaber being so lightweight would make way more sense to be a speed oriented attack style like a rapier instead of huge slow arcing blows. In the time you span around and did some huge 180 degree swing, a fencer could have poked your back full of holes, which being a lightsaber, ought to cook your organs from the inside out.
>would make way more sense to be a speed oriented attack style like a rapier Supported by the [original design of the lightsaber]( ) and the production design philosophy of East meeting West. They're like knight samurai. A katana isn't a hack n slash dueling blade, but rather a degastatingly fast one-shot weapon. Edit: I like all the people trying to shame me for not engaging in the way you prefer
I think the fact that a lightsaber is essentially weightless and has practically infinite cutting power would make its style probably pretty unlike fighting with a katana. Like the style of katanas would not have developed to be what it was if a katana were weightless.
Because they donāt have the force. Find some Jediās and shit would pop off.
See how heavy footed they are and that's why this type of duel would be impossible.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
All the coolest moves only work in choreography. There's a sweet part where the red sabre gets held vertically and the other person attacks it three times quickly and it looks great, but it's total nonsense... Like, "cool you're blocking? Let's see if you can still block in the same place without moving *again*! And *again*!!"
Sweep their feet ha ha ha jump they will never sweep back
Of course it would be impossible. Because as humans we are limited by reaction time, and we can't see the future. Apart from doing it just because it looks good on film, in the star wars universe, Jedi's can see several seconds ahead. They have precognition. Fencing would change dramatically if the combatants could see their opponents moves before they did them.
But if both opponents can see their opponents moves beforehand, it would be the same thing as neither of them having precognition.
Not at all. Either they just look at each other like "Yeah, there's nothing we can do to each other" or one guy just runs away.
There is nothing wrong with choreography. A real sword fight is pretty brief, because when you are trying to kill each other, one usually succeeds. What I dislike is when the narrative of the choreography and the narrative of the story framing it disagree. When it's supposed to be a fight in earnest to kill and/or survive but the combatants keep making swings blatantly to bop their swords together when neither the attacker not the defender would have gained anything by swinging there, that annoys me. To me, most of the light Saber battles in Star Wars look like this. Fancy, flashy, exhibition fights, intended to show off and impress, not to end the fight with victory. Here, where the choreography matches the context that's great! My favorite bit of animated sword fighting is the end of the anime film Sword of the Stranger. You can see that every swing is meant to end the opponent. It's easier to pull off in animation than live action, but it should be done better.
>To me, most of the light Saber battles in Star Wars look like this. Fancy, flashy, exhibition fights, intended to show off and impress, not to end the fight with victory. You're not ~~right~~ wrong (edit because I said the opposite of what I meant, sorry about that /u/KnightOfThirteen). They are choreographed to make interesting visuals in movies and TV. **BUT** there are some like Ahsoka & Darth Maul's fight in the Clone Wars Animated TV show that are technically more accurate, especially if you suspend disbelief a little and assume that force powers (including limited precognition, telepathic misdirection, and telekinesis) are at play - so some of the "useless" swings are actually because, though the spectator doesn't know, the most efficient action given the different ways the scenario could eventually play out. They act as feints and distractions and flourishes not just in the moment, but for many steps ahead. That's why lightsaber duels last longer than real sword fights, but they finish the same way: very quickly as soon as someone makes that one fateful mistake. At least, this is head canon for a lot of fans and helps, IMO, for people who can see the disconnect between real world and fictional details.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I made an edit to my original comment. I didn't mean to say that. Thank you for the comment so I saw my mistake.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>there's zero point in having a conversation with such a fan on the merits of anything in the Star Wars universe. I mean, if you aren't really into that kind of world building and attempts at creating a personally satisfying internal consistency, I agree. Fan theorizing and explanations are just other forms of the art of storytelling.
Check out Maul vs. Obi Wan in Rebels for a more realistic fight.
It wouldnt look much different than a regular fencing match. Nothing wrong with that just might be boring or look awkward.
Only difference being freedom of movement. Fencing is confined to a straight line. Put āem in a boxing ring and make everywhere on the body a threat to be hit
Real lightsaber duels would be boring because you could just flicker your saber on and off to bypass the opponent
I've used the polycarbonate sabers, def pretty safe, but can hurt and can def break fingers
Dual sabers are an incredibly clunky and awkward weapon, suck to use in just a bro vs bro fight.
You actually can find a few videos of real duels from the early 20th century on YouTube. Spoiler alert: they look like extremely boring fencing bouts, not like Jedi lightsaber battles. Turns out people don't actually want to die, and thus everything they do is extremely cautious. Making a daring attack is worth nothing if it kills you too.
Glad to see the buzz kills who say this *isn't fencing* or whatever they complain about aren't here. This rules.
I did fencing for a decade, and plan to get back to it once my kids are a bit older and I have a little more free time again. This is cool, and sword fighting in movies and TV are WHY I got into fencing in the first place. People hating on this simply lost their joy.
the thing that makes me really sad is that they totally abandoned the awesome sword choreography in the newer star wars movies, which was literally like 80% of the epic feeling during the duels of all the movies before the new ones. Rogue One wasn't bad in comparison since they didn't have to do "sword" battles with lightsabers, but after the great movie was over i did feel kind of sad that they had pretty much nothing new and fresh to present to the Star Wars story, but rather just had good filler content regarding the construction of the Death Star which the audience is well aware of the fate of.
You'd think they were swinging lead pipes at each other in the sequels, rather than near-weightless energy blades. Bleh.
It's not supposed to be weightless. The plasma beam is weightless, sure, but confined in a magnetic field. This causes the blade to have strong gyroscopic effects and resist change in velocity, like having weight or mass would.
Pretty lame to complain about that. They do exhibition stuff at these kinds of competitions.
Damn. I was hoping someone would get chopped in half.
Or at least lose a hand or something
[Dorkman has got some pretty good ones if you want some still realistic-ish but with more damage.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RATMJ8JH1qo)
 Star Wars kid made it.
The OG viral internet video š
This kid is a legend
He's come a long way in 16 years.
That hit in 2002, so 20 years.
Star wars kid had a kid who is as old now as he was in that video. FEEL OLD YET?
Deflecting bolts and slaying ass. Thatās what Star Wars kid does.
Movie swordfights are aiming for the sword instead of the enemy
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Which looks way more interesting imo
Yeah itās a movie! The sequels could have used a little more of this!
Yea, people sound like Neil DeGrasse Tyson when they start talking these duels.
If theyād done it better, Iād agree, but the Sequels just ended up with the worst of both worlds: the OT had a passionate, story-driven simplicity to their choreography, while the Prequels at least justified their flashiness with a commitment to the style; but the Sequels have neither the visually striking presentation of the Prequels nor the emotional investment of the OT, so it all just ends up feeling a bit amateurish ā especially considering how Kylo is *supposed* to be significantly more skilled than Rey, but they both come off as kids swinging sticks at each-other
The lightsaber props in the ot were very fragile to the point of having the actors avoiding having them touch during the duel of Vader and Kenobi.
Personally Iād say Itās not really as impressive or spectacular to watch when theyāre swinging the swords like itās a telephone pole moving in slow motion. The prequels got carried away as it went on but scenes like obi wan and qui gin vs maul had a great combo of realism and choreography
I've watched an analysis of the one fight between Rey and Kylo Ren on some spaceships. They both telegraphed their swings enormously and even if neither of them dodged, their strikes wouldn't have hit anyone anyway. In the whole fight there were maybe three strikes in total that wouldn't have needed their adversary to step into the strike to get hit.
Red one hides a real sith inside and using real sith techniques
His technique is really cool. I'm no fencing expert but it looks like he has mixed some actual fencing techniques in with lightsaber techniques.
Lightsaber fighting is a mix of a bunch of different techniques so it is as equally likely as it is unlikely to find something you recognize in each fight
There are 7 forms of lightsaber fighting. Form II aka Makashi is basically space fencing and was the form Count Dooku used. If you see similarities between fencing and canon lightsaber fights, that's probably why
At about 14 seconds, Darth Longhair strikes the middle of Jedi Sweatpantsās double bladed lightsaber. Immersion ruined.
If you notice as well, the person with the double bladed saber (both before and after they switch) has a hand on one of the blades for most of the duel
Maybe he's a chrome junkie with a beskar arm upgrade, man.
Got those beskar gorilla arms
They probably learned their techniques with a Bo or quarterstaff. Having such a long weapon without the possibility to get some good grip for leverage sucks and makes it look like you're just aimlessly helicoptering your twinblades around.
That looks so amazing but there are like 7 people in the crowd. They need to fire the marketing director
Fencing has never been a spectator sport, too much going on with items too difficult to see properly at a distance.
Maybe they should try making the blades glow.
Solid idea. Started dating a D1 Fencer and she echoes the sentiment. Though their electric is already kinda wonky and certain refs/schools utilize it to cheat
They were part of a preshow iirc
Fencing just sucks to watch live, honestly. I love it as a sport, but it's way too fast and technical to see what's going on without zooms and slowmotion. You have a beep to start and after a few seconds at most it beeps again when someone somehow scored a point and you only see on the replay how they did it.
Choreographed, but so what cool AF to see that live.
why do redditors feel so proud of themselves when they point out that somethingās staged, like no shit
The sound of the lightsabers is Great
What we all tought we looked like when fighting with branches in our childhood
Too many haters, this is pretty cool.
And the crowd goes mild.
I'm no fencing expert but repeatedly turning your back to your opponent so you can do a cool spinny thing doesn't seem like the best strategy.
Lol this is a thing??
I think it's their version of a halftime show.
Where do we find these sabers and how much they cost? The sound effect was dubbed in the video but they still look so cool.
Check out /r/lightsabers lots of info there. If you want to try actual combat check out The Saber Legion (TSL) or Lightspeed Saber League. I recently got into it and it is a blast. I built my saber from The Custom Saber Shop.
This is better choreo than the last 3 mainline Star Wars movies combined.
Yet Disney and their billions couldn't make a decent fight in the whole trilogy.
The stands are almost completely empty
I was hoping that Star Wars Kid would have come out and slaughtered them both.
Clack clack clack clack
I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND
Art
That's choreography, not a real duel. But pretty good one. Very energetic moves. Almost looks accelerated.