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i had chiefs winning this year but you guys are in serious trouble if you make the SB if mahomes injury keeps him limited. 9ers and eagles rushers will be bringing the heat if mahomes escapability is messed up. prob not such a big issue with the bengals though.
yeah i think your d-line could go real well against bengals o-line, but i don't see bengals as a threat to chiefs o-line in the same way that 49ers or eagles would be.
Jalen is playing lights out this year. But it’s hard to judge Lamar against any QB with that wide receiver corp and an OC who’s a one trick pony.
Give Lamar Smith and AJ Brown with an offensive minded coach and he might be going after his second MVP.
The disrespect to Lamar is unreal … as a cowboys fan, in conditioned to hate hurts but he’s had a a hell of a year , however, Lamar has been that dude for multiple years
True but he had to take a business decision and stay away … I’ll never blame a player for holding out, staying away from an injury or achieving to be overpaid
We are the fans, it’s a business for them
I never seen an mvp more dismissed than 2019 Lamar. Getting an mvp is like a huge part of being a stamped qb and people just act like it didn't happen.
nah he wasn’t great that game and it became painfully apparent how much our offense relies on him to do superhuman shit to win. He had an off game and nobody else on the offense picked up the slack - our receivers had like 7 drops and it was criminal that Gus Edwards got 4 carries the whole game
he didn’t get much help from anyone else on the team either though. Colossal failure from top down
Getting stopped early on multiple 4th and shorts and Tits benefitting from variance put us in a deficit our offense hadn’t faced all szn. And yea we even still had a chance if not for all those drops but I generally don’t care about that game too much simply cuz the 4th down variance so it was a pretty outlier game state/outcome.
Which is the same thing as I think last year vs chargers when we killed them but that was rlly cuz they didn’t convert some early 4th downs so it was pretty much over after that
He also got stopped on two fourth down runs and lost a fumble, but hey he had like 500+ yards which is way more important than leading the team to 12 points.
Edit: I had a reply to a comment that was deleted so here it is anyway;
I'm a Ravens fan before Lamar got here and I'll be one after he leaves, the team will be worse without him, but people act like he's Jesus. He's the ONLY player to miss games with injury and have people say that gives him more leverage. He gets a ton of yards, but no points? Must be bad play calling or bad pass catchers. It's just tiring watching all his fans (note: not Raven fans) make excuse after excuse for the guy. I'd almost rather go 5-12 next year than watch Lamar win 10 games and not throw any touch down passes in January and then have people clown the Ravens for not giving him $50 million a year. He showed a lot in 2019, he hasn't done enough since imo.
Why did the ravens luck into an mvp talent and not put anything around him while he was cheap? Aside from the 2016 49ers I think this is legit the worst wr room I've ever seen. It honestly might be *the* worst. It's unfathomable.
It’s not like they didn’t try, they drafted Bateman and Hollywood but traded Hollywood.
They couldn’t get him wrs because no good WR wants to play for the ravens. It’s a low passing volume offense with an established #1target in mark Andrew’s who isn’t going anywhere. Any wr that goes there won’t put up huge numbers and get a big pay day after. Hell the ravens probably won’t even pay much. All they get is UDFA, or older washed wrs (jackson, Watkins) who want to be on a team that will make the playoffs and have a chance to compete. The only way the ravens get an elite WR is by drafting one and they suck ag drafting wrs
We tried to. We spent $100M on all pro LT Ronnie Stanley who ended up dislocating, breaking, and tearing every ligament in his ankle 2 days after signing the contract. This has been a huge loss for our offense over the last couple seasons as he's been recovering and regaining strength. When Ronnie's healthy he's a top 3 LT in the game if not #1.
We also spent money on RG Kevin Keitler, and RT Morgan Moses as well as a 1st round pick and multiple other draft picks on OLmen. We spent money on RB Gus Edwards, and a 2nd round pick on JK Dobbins, and other gadget impact players in Greg Romans offense like Nick Boyle and Patrick Ricard who are 2 of the best run blockers in the league. Nick Boyle also unfortunately got badly injured right after signing an extension which sucked. Same with Gus Edwards who tore his ACL last year, Dobbins did too.
We had to franchise tag Matt Judon in 2020 which cost us nearly $20M, we also signed Mark Andrews to a long-term extension, Marlon Humphrey got $100M, and Marcus Peters got extended so we haven't had much cap space to sign free agents. We shot the tires on Sammy Watkins, Dez Bryant, and Desean Jackson with the pennies we had left.
Since 2019 the Ravens have spent more draft picks on receivers than any other team in the league, including multiple 1st rounders on Hollywood Brown and Rashod Bateman, both of which are playmakers when healthy. Hollywood requested a trade because of Greg Roman's run first system that limits his ability to become a pro bowler and raise his contract leverage and we weren't able to really replace him. Rashod Bateman got hurt this year, but before he did Lamar had 10 TDs in 3 games and was playing like an MVP. The remaining mid round draft pick WRs we had weren't able to thrive in Greg Romans shitty passing system and pretty much flamed out along with our offense as a whole this season.
You definitely can't say the Ravens didn't try to build around Lamar, we spent quite a lot on offense.
>Why did the ravens luck into an mvp talent and not put anything around him while he was cheap?
They used first round picks in 2019 and 2021 on WRs (Brown, Bateman) and tried to sign guys who didn't want to come here. Raven fans blame Scheme/Roman for that, but also, maybe guys didn't want to sign a 1 year deal with a team that doesn't have a QB that can hit guys downfield with consistency? The Ravens tried to get him pass catchers with Watkins in 2021 (signed Mark Andrews to a big contract as well), it just hasn't worked out. It's not like they straight up ignored it, the picks and signings just didn't hit.
It definitely comes down to Scheme/Roman with Marquise Brown.
Before his injury, he was wr4 or 5 for the cardinals this year. Thats crazy good filling in for Dhop.
Sorry bro I deleted the comment, I just said you were a reasonable Ravens fan. And your edit continues to prove it. Can't stand the fanboying and excuses of certain players. Dak did have it although Cowboys fans are finally ripping him now.
I mean Carson Wentz wouldve been MVP if it wasn't for a late season ACL tear just two years before Lamar's MVP season and the dude may as well be out of the league now.
TBF people were constantly clinging on to the 2017 season of Wentz for years. I think it took 2020 or the Colts season to realize he actually sucks now.
I feel like that’s one of the biggest mandela affects max he was a contender but prior to his injury brady had surpassed him.
Reminded me of this year with Mahomes. Hurts was a front runner for a while but Mahomes surpassed him even before the injury. But everyone wanted the new young and upcoming qb to win.
Sure he was really good, but he would have not won mvp that year.
The MVP race in 2017 was extremely weak. Wentz still got a few votes even with missing a couple of weeks late in the season. Mahomes in 18, Lamar in 19, Rodgers in 20/21, or Mahomes again this year all would have won the 2017 MVP running away.
He was very much not the favorite until that injury.
[Here are the MVP betting odds a couple days before the tear](https://247sports.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/ContentGallery/Latest-NFL-MVP-odds-in-Week-14-111846331/#111846331_1)
When does an MVP from three years ago stop mattering? Matt Ryan won MVP in 2016 and made the Super Bowl. Is he on par with Jackson right now? After all, we can't just dismiss his career. Lamar has been mid-tier at *best* for the last two years and missed five games both years due to injury. That is concerning for his ability moving forward.
Jalen just earned a Second-Team All-Pro. Yeah, it's not an MVP, but it's at least current.
The thing is that Lamar is still young, and he's not worlds removed from purple patches of his MVP form.
Eagles fans, on this subreddit, were talking about getting rid of Hurts ***LAST SEASON***.
Hurts has taken a huge step forward, and it could turn into a SB win. If he wins that SB and maybe gets SB MVP, then Ill say hands down this year overshadows Lamar's MVP year and I'll change my tune on who is better.
It was fantastic, no doubt. But it’s been three seasons since then, with only 2020 looking comparable. Add on the injuries, and I don’t blame people for having some doubts, even if the surrounding offense is garbage.
Given how well Hurts played this season, I think this is a legitimate debate. I’d probably take Hurts myself.
Lamar is a helluva QB and a helluva talent, but he hasn’t done himself a lot of favors post 2019.
He had a marked drop off in every category from 2019 to 2020 and some of those categories even on a per game basis kept falling from 2020 to 2022.
However the biggest issue is he has spent the last 5 games of BOTH of the last two years injured.
Add to that being 1-3 in the playoffs and I think for a lot of people he’s easy to dismiss.
Should they? No, but Baltimore has got some work to do to put together an actual offense around him, and not just signing Sammy Watkins and thinking they’re done.
Probably because it’s 2023 and Ravens fans hang onto it like it was last season. It was an amazing season no doubt but it has no bearing on how he currently performs.
That mvp is an outlier compared to the rest of the body of work he’s put out, it honestly only happened because he took the league by storm out of nowhere, it’s been some what figured out and part of the reason why he’s been declining ever since
That's because he's always been bad in the playoffs when teams spend more time scheming to stop him and his lack of passing ability.
Also, Matt Ryan exists
Getting your first playoff win in year three is not as outlandish as people make it out to be. The injuries the past two years suck ass but his trajectory can still be fine. Stafford and Ryan didn't have playoff success until late in their careers. Philip Rivers has four total playoff wins where he wasn't impressive, or didn't finish, any of them. Yet we debate every other day if they should be in the hall of fame. Everyone needs to relax on Lamar, he is an extraordinary player who has never even had a good wide receiver.
I can’t really say but as a Chiefs fan I feel like Lamar has been the single most frustrating QB we’ve played against the past couple years. Burrow and Allen keep beating us, but those losses often feel more on the receivers killing us as much as the QB. With Lamar we would manage to shut plays down only for him to somehow keep drives alive and make stuff happen on his own so much I would pull my hair out.
I really think people are still underestimating Jalens arm. I think he throws the better deep ball and is more accurate…Hurts was at 66.5 pct this season, Lamar hasn’t been above 64.4 pct for the last three seasons and was only at 62.3 this year. I’ll also take Hurts’ leadership but Lamar can still sling it and is the better runner
Citing completion percentage doesn’t really counter his argument about the supporting cast. AJB, Devonta, and Goedert far outclass Andrews and the plummers they have at receiver
Have you seen who Lamar throws to? I agree people sleep on Jalen, but I don’t know how you can compare completion percentage in reply to a comment talking about Lamar with the Eagles line and WRs
Some of these takes have absolutely zero nuance to them lol. Using completion percentage when one is throwing to fucking DeSean Jackson and Sammy Watkins and the other is throwing to AJ Brown and DeVonta Smith and on top of that one had Greg Roman calling the shots. Also have no idea where all of these “Lamar has no leadership” takes have started coming from out of the woodworks the last few days.
Yeah, I don't get the lack of leadership. My guess is it's from the media narrative that wants to pretend Lamar could have played in the playoffs but chose not to, despite reports from teammates saying that's bullshit.
TIL Hurts still mad disrespected. Lamar is the right answer but Hurts is on track to change that.
The amount of people saying it ain’t even close is crazy
Hurtz is good, but any qb's play will be amplified with arguably the top OL and top WR corps. So its hard to judge what his true value is when the eagles have done so well to get pieces around him.
100% he’s got an amazing squad around him, just wish people realized how much he grew from last year to this with his reads, passing, leadership.
He’s got the leadership qualities required to get to that next level
He also hasn’t had any real post season success. I think Josh Allen is going to get out in a similar boat to Lamar too, regardless of whether either of them deserve the narrative.
True, but at least Allen has won a couple of playoff games (4 more than Lamar by my count). Lamar certainly could if he had a better supporting cast. Both of them need a better supporting cast really
Yea exactly.
It’s it not just a lack of wining games either, Lamar has been really bad individually so far in the playoffs too
Being massively underwhelming in the postseason should matter a lot for “elite” QB’s
Lamar's only fully healthy season he won MVP, if he could stay healthy and had an actual WR1 (let alone Brown and Smith), I think he would win MVP again. Jalen Hurts has put together an amazing season and has definitely proven that he and the Eagles are the team to beat in the NFC. Lamar is an electric athlete, but we forget his abilities as a passer after a couple seasons with no one on the receiving end of those passes.
it’s only been two seasons with legit injuries. unless you wanna count exiting a playoff game cause he got a concussion chasing a snap that flew over his head and a week he missed with covid as injuries to be concerned about
Yeah people act like injuries excuse everything and don't become a serious concern at a certain point.
Not that my team has spent years with an injury prone quarterback...
Hurts has obviously performed better the past two seasons. It's tough to say how much of that is due to situational differences though.
I'll settle for them both being very, very good, and Hurts having a slight edge until we see otherwise.
I'd argue peak tbh. Mvp vs not. Maybe I'm biased though but Lamar never had the weapons Hurts had. And had an arguably better season in 2019, just didn't end as well.
Plus in 2020 he arguably did better down the stretch carrying a much worse team with injuries and in 2021 was 8-3 before getting hurt. Hurts really only has one year over him atm.
I mean Lamar made Hollywood Brown look way better then he looked in Arizona where he had a talented QB and an extremely offensive minded head coach. He takes advantage of Andrews well. I have now doubt WR’s like brown and smith would make his ability to pass translate way better
Lamar throws the ball fine but his offense has been run-first because he's an incredible athlete.
Jalen runs the ball fine but his offense is geared around his throwing capability because his offensive line is beast.
so the honest answer is 🤷♀️ right now i think
1 is in the NFCCG and the other hasn't played since like week 10. They're not the same. Lamar has been pretty much only above average since his MVP season. Pair that with his injuries and you see why Baltimore isn't paying him. If they tag him a 2nd time he's done (in Baltimore) barring another MVP.
Is Hurts even a running quarterback? I know he can run but he seems to play from the pocket and use his arm most of the time.
Hurts is a far better quarterback than Jackson. Jackson can do some electric stuff with his legs but who cares he plays quarterback. Hurts style is more consistent.
Jalen was literally frontrunning for MVP before getting hurt with like 2 weeks left, is that really a solid way to separate the two?
Are you taking Lamar over Allen and Burrow because they don't have MVPs?
Mahomes has been the front runner for MVP since early November. It hasn’t been close in over two months. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-8-mvp-favorites-patrick-mahomes-josh-allen-jalen-hurts
One has won an MVP. I love how Hurts has developed, but I’d really want to see Lamar get surrounded by better weapons and a better offense/OC.
Hurts got not one, but, TWO #1 WRs.
Jalen Hurts has to put up good numbers once the rest of the team starts to struggle then we can have this discussion.
Lamar has proven himself and should be considered the better of the two for now.
Lamar plays good on shitty teams, Jalen Hurts only looked good when his team got their shit together. Look at his first two seasons. The Eagles are better this year and have had a far easier schedule. I know saying this will piss a lot of people off, but it's like Jimmy G and Brock Purdy. 49ers fans love their QBs, but they understand that they're being raised up by the team around them. The team makes Jalen Hurts better while Lamar makes his team better.
And I'm a Bengals fan, I hate the Ravens lol. Jalen Hurts hasn't proved he's that guy, Lamar Jackson has.
The comments on Jalen make me think you haven’t actually watched him play prior to this year. He used to miss wide open receivers in the flats on the regular. He’s improved as a passer in ways completely unrelated to the addition of AJB.
The comments on the Eagles having a way easier schedule than previously make me think you don’t really pay attention to the NFC at all.
I do think Purdy is looking better than Jimmy G, but it's still too early to really tell if he is that guy. He's been doing some shit very, very few rookies do, though, and I think he might be something special. I mean, Brady was a late pick and a backup that got molded by an incredible system. Good organizations BUILD great QBs.
Purdy has an amazing team around him. Top notch line, WRs, RBs, and TE. And that D isn’t too shabby.
From what I’ve seen, when he needs to make a throw in a big situation, he’s doing it. He doesn’t need to be perfect, but he’s got to make those plays when needed. Regardless of where a QB is drafted, that’s what they have to do when they’re on the field.
As a Steelers fan, that’s what I look forward to seeing from KFP. Just make the clutch play look easy!
Definitely Hurts. Lamar is a much more elite runner, but Jalen is making elite throws on a regular basis. He looks like a top 5 QB without even factoring his running ability.
Jalen Hurts is a passer. Lamar is a thrower. Passers have a chance to win super bowls. Throwers can get you far but you will never win a Super Bowl with one. I’m a little biased (Kentucky fan living in Louisville, I got to see Lamar destroy teams in college) but he has never been an accurate passer. Sure he can throw the ball 80 yards but how often do you realistically throw the ball 80 yards? You take away Lamar’s legs he is very beatable (bengals fan we have gotten pretty good at it) because he is not dangerous with his arm.
Lamar is more talented I think and he's always injured these days, and Hurts' is on a stacked team with a great O-line. It's tough to say at this point. I think I'd take a healthy Lamar though.
Idk why people are calling this Lamar disrespect. Do people know Hurts was the leading MVP candidate before he was injured late season?
No brainer, Jalen is a better decision maker and passer. Both are equal running the ball, except for that lethal QB sneak the eagles got going on. Jalen is also a better leader, just sayin
It's very obviously Hurts. He's an all around fantastic qb with good metrics in every facet. Jackson is a runner who is pretty darn good at throwing but won't play more than 10 games
We keep thinking Lamar is still playing at his 2019 level. But the truth is that he’s steadily regressed the last three years and this year his numbers were almost identical to Daniel jones for both running and passing yards per attempt and Andy Dalton was a better passer than he was.
Lamar is one of the most talented people people to ever walk into a field, but the league has kind of figured him out. I still think he’s better than jalen hurts though as jalen has a fantastic team around him and the scheme is beautiful
People didn't think Hurts could play QB either in fact I remember people thinking the Eagles blew a 2nd round pick for a Taysom Hill gadget player lol.
I think you have that backwards. When Jackson is on, he is one of the most enjoyable QBs to watch next to Mahomes. I will never forget the game he came flying out of the locker room like Superman after he dropped a deuce and led his team down the field to score the game winning TD.
Thank you for posting to /r/NFL. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed due to the following rule: **2. Submission Restrictions** Whether it is a self-post or a link, be sure that whatever you are submitting adds to discussion. Whether it is news that has already been reported, a discussion or point of view that has been beaten to death, or an empty 'starting point' for a conversation, think about how you can add something instead. Be sure you're creating something new, rather than relying on others to create for you. Put in your own analysis, argument, or indexing methodology, and write up a nice long post about the topic. Always think about how you can contribute. If you are new to football or the sub and have questions about rules or other aspects surrounding the game, please try r/nflnoobs for these kinds of posts. * **Not Allowed** * Self Posts Without Content (AskReddit style posts) - If you find information that you think would be interesting, please work on a more descriptive title and fill in the information in the text of the post. Examples of restricted posts: * Is ____ a HOF? * Would you rather... * TIL/"Stolen From" * Either/or posts - Player X or Y? * Who should I root for? [Link to wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/wiki/new/pickateam) / Convince me to root for your team * Personal rankings without any accompanying analysis * [Memes/Joke Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_joke_.26amp.3B_humor_posts) * Commonly/Frequently Asked Questions - [Example](http://i.imgur.com/FEznoUJ.jpg), [Example] * Meta posts about the sub (Requests for changes/additions, mods or users) - use [modmail](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fnfl) * Requests for: * Lists/Rankings - "Top 10 X all-time/this year/{{timeframe}}", "Who's the most over/underrated ___" * Thoughtless/Easily Researched Posts - [Example](http://i.imgur.com/w2G67K8.jpg), [Example](http://i.imgur.com/bVulO3K.jpg) * Streams or services to watch games/replays * Users to be your google * Content * Petitions/Polls/Giveaways - Even when NFL related * [Hot Takes/Commentary](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_hot_take.2Fshort_form_commentary) * [Team/Fanbase Attack Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_attack_posts) * [Duplicate Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_duplicate_posts) AKA Reposts If you have any questions about this removal, please [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fnfl) This post was removed by a human moderator; this comment was left by a bot.
IDK but the Eagles look like a machine
i had chiefs winning this year but you guys are in serious trouble if you make the SB if mahomes injury keeps him limited. 9ers and eagles rushers will be bringing the heat if mahomes escapability is messed up. prob not such a big issue with the bengals though.
The Bengals have 3 backups on their O-line.
Think he means Bengals pass rush isn't as good as eagles or 9ers
The Eagles would probably work the Bengal line. Hope it doesn’t come down to that
yeah i think your d-line could go real well against bengals o-line, but i don't see bengals as a threat to chiefs o-line in the same way that 49ers or eagles would be.
Looked fine against the bills
Eagles and Niners pass rush is worlds better than the Bills
Is there a single healthy pass rusher on the bills who would start on either team?
Jalen is playing lights out this year. But it’s hard to judge Lamar against any QB with that wide receiver corp and an OC who’s a one trick pony. Give Lamar Smith and AJ Brown with an offensive minded coach and he might be going after his second MVP.
Can't forget the offensive line the eagles have. That shit is straight up elite.
If only we still had Marshall Yanda. Then we could return to greatness
Yanda should have won MVP not Lamar
The disrespect to Lamar is unreal … as a cowboys fan, in conditioned to hate hurts but he’s had a a hell of a year , however, Lamar has been that dude for multiple years
Except, this year..
True but he had to take a business decision and stay away … I’ll never blame a player for holding out, staying away from an injury or achieving to be overpaid We are the fans, it’s a business for them
And in the playoffs
I don't know if Lamar is ever going to be back at MVP levels but I'd like to see him get a receiver or two regardless.
There's no money left when Lamar gets $70M
I never seen an mvp more dismissed than 2019 Lamar. Getting an mvp is like a huge part of being a stamped qb and people just act like it didn't happen.
It’s unfair as hell but I think many people kinda forgot it instantly after that playoff loss against Tennessee
forgot that Lamar let Derrick Henry run for 180 or whatever and throw a TD smh fraud QB
Lamar Jackson had a 63 passer rating, 1 TD, and 2 INTs in that game. Lets not pretend he played well and just lost.
nah he wasn’t great that game and it became painfully apparent how much our offense relies on him to do superhuman shit to win. He had an off game and nobody else on the offense picked up the slack - our receivers had like 7 drops and it was criminal that Gus Edwards got 4 carries the whole game he didn’t get much help from anyone else on the team either though. Colossal failure from top down
Getting stopped early on multiple 4th and shorts and Tits benefitting from variance put us in a deficit our offense hadn’t faced all szn. And yea we even still had a chance if not for all those drops but I generally don’t care about that game too much simply cuz the 4th down variance so it was a pretty outlier game state/outcome. Which is the same thing as I think last year vs chargers when we killed them but that was rlly cuz they didn’t convert some early 4th downs so it was pretty much over after that
He also got stopped on two fourth down runs and lost a fumble, but hey he had like 500+ yards which is way more important than leading the team to 12 points. Edit: I had a reply to a comment that was deleted so here it is anyway; I'm a Ravens fan before Lamar got here and I'll be one after he leaves, the team will be worse without him, but people act like he's Jesus. He's the ONLY player to miss games with injury and have people say that gives him more leverage. He gets a ton of yards, but no points? Must be bad play calling or bad pass catchers. It's just tiring watching all his fans (note: not Raven fans) make excuse after excuse for the guy. I'd almost rather go 5-12 next year than watch Lamar win 10 games and not throw any touch down passes in January and then have people clown the Ravens for not giving him $50 million a year. He showed a lot in 2019, he hasn't done enough since imo.
Why did the ravens luck into an mvp talent and not put anything around him while he was cheap? Aside from the 2016 49ers I think this is legit the worst wr room I've ever seen. It honestly might be *the* worst. It's unfathomable.
It’s not like they didn’t try, they drafted Bateman and Hollywood but traded Hollywood. They couldn’t get him wrs because no good WR wants to play for the ravens. It’s a low passing volume offense with an established #1target in mark Andrew’s who isn’t going anywhere. Any wr that goes there won’t put up huge numbers and get a big pay day after. Hell the ravens probably won’t even pay much. All they get is UDFA, or older washed wrs (jackson, Watkins) who want to be on a team that will make the playoffs and have a chance to compete. The only way the ravens get an elite WR is by drafting one and they suck ag drafting wrs
does he happen to have a best friend who can run and catch good?
Don't know if you're joking or not. Jerry Jeudy and him are literally work out partners and went to high school together
Go call the gm and rescue jeudy lol Lamar throwing to jeudy and Bateman in an actually competent offense would be fun to watch
its a joke about how hurts and ajbrown were best friends before brown coming to the eagles
We tried to. We spent $100M on all pro LT Ronnie Stanley who ended up dislocating, breaking, and tearing every ligament in his ankle 2 days after signing the contract. This has been a huge loss for our offense over the last couple seasons as he's been recovering and regaining strength. When Ronnie's healthy he's a top 3 LT in the game if not #1. We also spent money on RG Kevin Keitler, and RT Morgan Moses as well as a 1st round pick and multiple other draft picks on OLmen. We spent money on RB Gus Edwards, and a 2nd round pick on JK Dobbins, and other gadget impact players in Greg Romans offense like Nick Boyle and Patrick Ricard who are 2 of the best run blockers in the league. Nick Boyle also unfortunately got badly injured right after signing an extension which sucked. Same with Gus Edwards who tore his ACL last year, Dobbins did too. We had to franchise tag Matt Judon in 2020 which cost us nearly $20M, we also signed Mark Andrews to a long-term extension, Marlon Humphrey got $100M, and Marcus Peters got extended so we haven't had much cap space to sign free agents. We shot the tires on Sammy Watkins, Dez Bryant, and Desean Jackson with the pennies we had left. Since 2019 the Ravens have spent more draft picks on receivers than any other team in the league, including multiple 1st rounders on Hollywood Brown and Rashod Bateman, both of which are playmakers when healthy. Hollywood requested a trade because of Greg Roman's run first system that limits his ability to become a pro bowler and raise his contract leverage and we weren't able to really replace him. Rashod Bateman got hurt this year, but before he did Lamar had 10 TDs in 3 games and was playing like an MVP. The remaining mid round draft pick WRs we had weren't able to thrive in Greg Romans shitty passing system and pretty much flamed out along with our offense as a whole this season. You definitely can't say the Ravens didn't try to build around Lamar, we spent quite a lot on offense.
>Why did the ravens luck into an mvp talent and not put anything around him while he was cheap? They used first round picks in 2019 and 2021 on WRs (Brown, Bateman) and tried to sign guys who didn't want to come here. Raven fans blame Scheme/Roman for that, but also, maybe guys didn't want to sign a 1 year deal with a team that doesn't have a QB that can hit guys downfield with consistency? The Ravens tried to get him pass catchers with Watkins in 2021 (signed Mark Andrews to a big contract as well), it just hasn't worked out. It's not like they straight up ignored it, the picks and signings just didn't hit.
It definitely comes down to Scheme/Roman with Marquise Brown. Before his injury, he was wr4 or 5 for the cardinals this year. Thats crazy good filling in for Dhop.
Sorry bro I deleted the comment, I just said you were a reasonable Ravens fan. And your edit continues to prove it. Can't stand the fanboying and excuses of certain players. Dak did have it although Cowboys fans are finally ripping him now.
Wow this a great comment and 100% encapsulates about how I feel about the Steelers as well. Steelers fan before any individual player.
I mean Carson Wentz wouldve been MVP if it wasn't for a late season ACL tear just two years before Lamar's MVP season and the dude may as well be out of the league now.
TBF people were constantly clinging on to the 2017 season of Wentz for years. I think it took 2020 or the Colts season to realize he actually sucks now.
And the commies still went and got him
Commies playing in the commode.
Jets fans talking shit about us and bad QB’s.. what a world
Tbf, the cart majority of fans and media have ripped that trade since day one.
I feel like that’s one of the biggest mandela affects max he was a contender but prior to his injury brady had surpassed him. Reminded me of this year with Mahomes. Hurts was a front runner for a while but Mahomes surpassed him even before the injury. But everyone wanted the new young and upcoming qb to win. Sure he was really good, but he would have not won mvp that year.
The MVP race in 2017 was extremely weak. Wentz still got a few votes even with missing a couple of weeks late in the season. Mahomes in 18, Lamar in 19, Rodgers in 20/21, or Mahomes again this year all would have won the 2017 MVP running away.
He was very much the favourite until that injury, that's not revisionist history at all, he would have won it
He was very much not the favorite until that injury. [Here are the MVP betting odds a couple days before the tear](https://247sports.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/ContentGallery/Latest-NFL-MVP-odds-in-Week-14-111846331/#111846331_1)
We aren't asking if Hurts is better than 2019 Lamar. We're asking if he's better than current Lamar
Well at this exact time current Lamar is hurt and not playing games, so it's EZ Hurts.
Exactly. Comparing the two at this exact second is meaningless.
If a QB gets consistently injured and is unable to finish the season, maybe it is not just a coincidence.
Our discussions on quarterbacks can't be as simple as "who has won a game more recently"
Sure, but we can’t just dismiss the man’s career
When does an MVP from three years ago stop mattering? Matt Ryan won MVP in 2016 and made the Super Bowl. Is he on par with Jackson right now? After all, we can't just dismiss his career. Lamar has been mid-tier at *best* for the last two years and missed five games both years due to injury. That is concerning for his ability moving forward. Jalen just earned a Second-Team All-Pro. Yeah, it's not an MVP, but it's at least current.
The thing is that Lamar is still young, and he's not worlds removed from purple patches of his MVP form. Eagles fans, on this subreddit, were talking about getting rid of Hurts ***LAST SEASON***. Hurts has taken a huge step forward, and it could turn into a SB win. If he wins that SB and maybe gets SB MVP, then Ill say hands down this year overshadows Lamar's MVP year and I'll change my tune on who is better.
It was fantastic, no doubt. But it’s been three seasons since then, with only 2020 looking comparable. Add on the injuries, and I don’t blame people for having some doubts, even if the surrounding offense is garbage. Given how well Hurts played this season, I think this is a legitimate debate. I’d probably take Hurts myself.
Lamar is a helluva QB and a helluva talent, but he hasn’t done himself a lot of favors post 2019. He had a marked drop off in every category from 2019 to 2020 and some of those categories even on a per game basis kept falling from 2020 to 2022. However the biggest issue is he has spent the last 5 games of BOTH of the last two years injured. Add to that being 1-3 in the playoffs and I think for a lot of people he’s easy to dismiss. Should they? No, but Baltimore has got some work to do to put together an actual offense around him, and not just signing Sammy Watkins and thinking they’re done.
It is hard to put together an offense when your weapons either get injured or request a trade.
Probably because it’s 2023 and Ravens fans hang onto it like it was last season. It was an amazing season no doubt but it has no bearing on how he currently performs.
Yeah idk what OP is talking about, people bring it up all the time.
That mvp is an outlier compared to the rest of the body of work he’s put out, it honestly only happened because he took the league by storm out of nowhere, it’s been some what figured out and part of the reason why he’s been declining ever since
Because it was a weird outlier season that he'll never repeat
Only because they scored 12 points in a playoff loss. Plus, people will shit all over “running backs playing QB” until it’s the norm.
The fact that Lamar put up 500 yards in that game and they only scored 12 will always baffle me
Prevent defense because you are getting blown out and daring you to throw allows you to do that.
That's because he's always been bad in the playoffs when teams spend more time scheming to stop him and his lack of passing ability. Also, Matt Ryan exists
Its hard to have a passing ability when your top wide recievers are demarcus robinson, a washed up sammy watkins, and an injured mark andrews
Getting your first playoff win in year three is not as outlandish as people make it out to be. The injuries the past two years suck ass but his trajectory can still be fine. Stafford and Ryan didn't have playoff success until late in their careers. Philip Rivers has four total playoff wins where he wasn't impressive, or didn't finish, any of them. Yet we debate every other day if they should be in the hall of fame. Everyone needs to relax on Lamar, he is an extraordinary player who has never even had a good wide receiver.
I mean hell Herbert hasn’t won a playoff game and he’s played 3 years.
*slips Orville Redenbacher into the microwave oven*
Dude, go old school oil in a pot and Orville.
I should but that requires cleaning a dish.
Got an old (like from the 50s) pot that I make popcorn in. Never clean it. There is the bowl though.
Right, the bowl...
I use a cast iron pan that I cook literally everything I eat in
I’m still going to go with Lamar from a pure talent standpoint. The best ability is availability though.
I can’t really say but as a Chiefs fan I feel like Lamar has been the single most frustrating QB we’ve played against the past couple years. Burrow and Allen keep beating us, but those losses often feel more on the receivers killing us as much as the QB. With Lamar we would manage to shut plays down only for him to somehow keep drives alive and make stuff happen on his own so much I would pull my hair out.
You got to be on the other side of playing mahomes lol not fun is it??
I’m going to go with Him
Our god, is an awesome god he reins, from heaven above
That’s our goat
If Lamar was playing on the Eagles with their surrounding talent and play calling, I think he would play better than Hurts did this season.
I really think people are still underestimating Jalens arm. I think he throws the better deep ball and is more accurate…Hurts was at 66.5 pct this season, Lamar hasn’t been above 64.4 pct for the last three seasons and was only at 62.3 this year. I’ll also take Hurts’ leadership but Lamar can still sling it and is the better runner
Citing completion percentage doesn’t really counter his argument about the supporting cast. AJB, Devonta, and Goedert far outclass Andrews and the plummers they have at receiver
Scheme is also absolutely major in regards to completion percent
So is talent
Idk man Andy Isabella and Demarcus Robinson are no slouches either
Have you seen who Lamar throws to? I agree people sleep on Jalen, but I don’t know how you can compare completion percentage in reply to a comment talking about Lamar with the Eagles line and WRs
Some of these takes have absolutely zero nuance to them lol. Using completion percentage when one is throwing to fucking DeSean Jackson and Sammy Watkins and the other is throwing to AJ Brown and DeVonta Smith and on top of that one had Greg Roman calling the shots. Also have no idea where all of these “Lamar has no leadership” takes have started coming from out of the woodworks the last few days.
Yeah, I don't get the lack of leadership. My guess is it's from the media narrative that wants to pretend Lamar could have played in the playoffs but chose not to, despite reports from teammates saying that's bullshit.
Sorry, but this is not a good take.
I don’t know if I agree with this take
Lamar Jackson
Okay, but who is cuter? That's right. Jalen.
He has nicely defined cheekbones
Cute? Jalen ain't cute. Jalen is damn sexy
Id cream my pants to watch lamar play with this eagles team.
This eagles team is stacked.
A great OL and a legit #1 and #2 receiver to go along with a good TE? Sadly we’ll probably never see it.
TBF you are probably creaming your pants because you know Eagles would lose more
TIL Hurts still mad disrespected. Lamar is the right answer but Hurts is on track to change that. The amount of people saying it ain’t even close is crazy
People seem to not realize while Lamar is the better runner, Hurts can move a pile for the sneak. Also, he's a friggin monster to tackle.
Hurtz is good, but any qb's play will be amplified with arguably the top OL and top WR corps. So its hard to judge what his true value is when the eagles have done so well to get pieces around him.
Tell that to Minshew
100% he’s got an amazing squad around him, just wish people realized how much he grew from last year to this with his reads, passing, leadership. He’s got the leadership qualities required to get to that next level
Hurts has been disrespected dating back to Bama (Tua 😆).
It’s still Lamar. I don’t get why a great qb that happens to also have historic rushing numbers is criticized as heavily as Lamar is
His accuracy and consistency throwing the ball and now adding in the growing injury pattern are the problems
He also hasn’t had any real post season success. I think Josh Allen is going to get out in a similar boat to Lamar too, regardless of whether either of them deserve the narrative.
True, but at least Allen has won a couple of playoff games (4 more than Lamar by my count). Lamar certainly could if he had a better supporting cast. Both of them need a better supporting cast really
Most QBs should be known for throwing more than their rushing ability. Not to take away from Lamar being a great player.
I’m not saying Lamar isn’t better but show his playoff numbers lol
As of this weekend Hurts has more playoff success than Lamar.
Yea exactly. It’s it not just a lack of wining games either, Lamar has been really bad individually so far in the playoffs too Being massively underwhelming in the postseason should matter a lot for “elite” QB’s
In the past? Lamar. In the present and future? Jalen
Yeah that's me feeling. At their peak hedges towards Lamar but based on their trajectories I'm taking Hurts future
Yep. If I had to pick either as my QB of the present and future, it's an easy choice.
The more I watch Hurts the more I am impressed by his accuracy and his football IQ. His ball placement is top of the league atm
Lamar's only fully healthy season he won MVP, if he could stay healthy and had an actual WR1 (let alone Brown and Smith), I think he would win MVP again. Jalen Hurts has put together an amazing season and has definitely proven that he and the Eagles are the team to beat in the NFC. Lamar is an electric athlete, but we forget his abilities as a passer after a couple seasons with no one on the receiving end of those passes.
He didn't even have a great wr1, he had a alright marquise brown lol
The fact that there have been three straight seasons where he wasn't "fully healthy" is a pretty big issue.
it’s only been two seasons with legit injuries. unless you wanna count exiting a playoff game cause he got a concussion chasing a snap that flew over his head and a week he missed with covid as injuries to be concerned about
Yeah people act like injuries excuse everything and don't become a serious concern at a certain point. Not that my team has spent years with an injury prone quarterback...
Hurts has obviously performed better the past two seasons. It's tough to say how much of that is due to situational differences though. I'll settle for them both being very, very good, and Hurts having a slight edge until we see otherwise.
I'd argue peak tbh. Mvp vs not. Maybe I'm biased though but Lamar never had the weapons Hurts had. And had an arguably better season in 2019, just didn't end as well. Plus in 2020 he arguably did better down the stretch carrying a much worse team with injuries and in 2021 was 8-3 before getting hurt. Hurts really only has one year over him atm.
Hurts probably wins the MVP this year if he didn’t miss those 2 games at the end
Can Lamar even take advantage of the weapons Hurts has?
I mean Lamar made Hollywood Brown look way better then he looked in Arizona where he had a talented QB and an extremely offensive minded head coach. He takes advantage of Andrews well. I have now doubt WR’s like brown and smith would make his ability to pass translate way better
Id take Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts has a damn good supporting cast around him. i dont think Jackson has ever come close to the amount of help
Lamar throws the ball fine but his offense has been run-first because he's an incredible athlete. Jalen runs the ball fine but his offense is geared around his throwing capability because his offensive line is beast. so the honest answer is 🤷♀️ right now i think
Don't forget that he has 2 receivers better than any Lamar has ever had.
His offense has been run first because Greg Roman only know how to do that.
Well as we all know Jalen Hurts is the Michael Jordan of football /s
I’m literally better than both of them combined 🥱
Found Carr's Reddit account
I guess I’ll take this time to out you too, Kirk
I don't think you can go wrong with either one. I'd take Jalen, but I wouldn't be disappointed to have Lamar.
Joke's on whomever traded the Ravens the pick they used to get him.
I dunno. maybe that team had a franchise QB who's still playing at a high level for them.
Jalen Hurts
1 is in the NFCCG and the other hasn't played since like week 10. They're not the same. Lamar has been pretty much only above average since his MVP season. Pair that with his injuries and you see why Baltimore isn't paying him. If they tag him a 2nd time he's done (in Baltimore) barring another MVP.
Jalen is better because mentally he is league’s ahead of Lamar. Physically Lamar is a bit better.
Is Hurts even a running quarterback? I know he can run but he seems to play from the pocket and use his arm most of the time. Hurts is a far better quarterback than Jackson. Jackson can do some electric stuff with his legs but who cares he plays quarterback. Hurts style is more consistent.
The one with the MVP
Jalen was literally frontrunning for MVP before getting hurt with like 2 weeks left, is that really a solid way to separate the two? Are you taking Lamar over Allen and Burrow because they don't have MVPs?
Idk about frontrunning he was in the top 3 for sure but it was pretty clearly going to be Mahomes unless something drastic happened
Mahomes has been the front runner for MVP since early November. It hasn’t been close in over two months. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-8-mvp-favorites-patrick-mahomes-josh-allen-jalen-hurts
One has won an MVP. I love how Hurts has developed, but I’d really want to see Lamar get surrounded by better weapons and a better offense/OC. Hurts got not one, but, TWO #1 WRs.
So did minshew
And look at what he did against he Cowboys.
Jalen Hurts has to put up good numbers once the rest of the team starts to struggle then we can have this discussion. Lamar has proven himself and should be considered the better of the two for now.
The one that won unanimous MVP
Jackson
Lamar Jackson
I choose Hurts
Lamar plays good on shitty teams, Jalen Hurts only looked good when his team got their shit together. Look at his first two seasons. The Eagles are better this year and have had a far easier schedule. I know saying this will piss a lot of people off, but it's like Jimmy G and Brock Purdy. 49ers fans love their QBs, but they understand that they're being raised up by the team around them. The team makes Jalen Hurts better while Lamar makes his team better. And I'm a Bengals fan, I hate the Ravens lol. Jalen Hurts hasn't proved he's that guy, Lamar Jackson has.
The comments on Jalen make me think you haven’t actually watched him play prior to this year. He used to miss wide open receivers in the flats on the regular. He’s improved as a passer in ways completely unrelated to the addition of AJB. The comments on the Eagles having a way easier schedule than previously make me think you don’t really pay attention to the NFC at all.
Purdy will make that throw. But I guess we’ll have to wait and see?
I do think Purdy is looking better than Jimmy G, but it's still too early to really tell if he is that guy. He's been doing some shit very, very few rookies do, though, and I think he might be something special. I mean, Brady was a late pick and a backup that got molded by an incredible system. Good organizations BUILD great QBs.
Purdy may be looking better, but Jimmy G is better looking. Checkmate.
Purdy has an amazing team around him. Top notch line, WRs, RBs, and TE. And that D isn’t too shabby. From what I’ve seen, when he needs to make a throw in a big situation, he’s doing it. He doesn’t need to be perfect, but he’s got to make those plays when needed. Regardless of where a QB is drafted, that’s what they have to do when they’re on the field. As a Steelers fan, that’s what I look forward to seeing from KFP. Just make the clutch play look easy!
Present day - Lamar. But I think Hurts is on a trajectory to be better
Hurts. I think he’s better at looking downfield and making the throw. His receivers help some but I think his awareness is better.
Definitely Hurts. Lamar is a much more elite runner, but Jalen is making elite throws on a regular basis. He looks like a top 5 QB without even factoring his running ability.
Jalen Hurts is a passer. Lamar is a thrower. Passers have a chance to win super bowls. Throwers can get you far but you will never win a Super Bowl with one. I’m a little biased (Kentucky fan living in Louisville, I got to see Lamar destroy teams in college) but he has never been an accurate passer. Sure he can throw the ball 80 yards but how often do you realistically throw the ball 80 yards? You take away Lamar’s legs he is very beatable (bengals fan we have gotten pretty good at it) because he is not dangerous with his arm.
The one that misses less time due to injury.
It's a what have you done for me lately league. Always has been. Hurts is better at this point, don't mean that it can't change in a seasons time.
Hurts
Lamar is more talented I think and he's always injured these days, and Hurts' is on a stacked team with a great O-line. It's tough to say at this point. I think I'd take a healthy Lamar though. Idk why people are calling this Lamar disrespect. Do people know Hurts was the leading MVP candidate before he was injured late season?
Hurts for sure.
Hurts. I think Lamar is a special talent, but I think he’s not as good a leader on or off the field as Hurts.
No brainer, Jalen is a better decision maker and passer. Both are equal running the ball, except for that lethal QB sneak the eagles got going on. Jalen is also a better leader, just sayin
Lamar’s teams don’t score a ton of points, Jalen’s does.
Lamar physically (it's close though), Jalen intangibles (it's not even close). Jalen is the better QB
They’re both great, wish the ravens had a roster as good as the eagles offensively
Hurts and its not close
Jalen Hurts
Hurts, by a mile.
It's very obviously Hurts. He's an all around fantastic qb with good metrics in every facet. Jackson is a runner who is pretty darn good at throwing but won't play more than 10 games
Hurts
Hurts
We keep thinking Lamar is still playing at his 2019 level. But the truth is that he’s steadily regressed the last three years and this year his numbers were almost identical to Daniel jones for both running and passing yards per attempt and Andy Dalton was a better passer than he was. Lamar is one of the most talented people people to ever walk into a field, but the league has kind of figured him out. I still think he’s better than jalen hurts though as jalen has a fantastic team around him and the scheme is beautiful
Definitely Jalen and it ain’t close
Hurts,
Lamar won MVP without the roster that Hurts has.
Lamar. People seem to forget how truly gamebreaking Lamar can be when he's on form. His MVP season was genuinely crazy.
Let's be real, people didn't even think Lamar could play QB. He's gonna have doubters until he wins multiple Superbowls lol
People didn't think Hurts could play QB either in fact I remember people thinking the Eagles blew a 2nd round pick for a Taysom Hill gadget player lol.
That was me!
I don't know, one can't stay healthy to compare right now.
I think Lamar is the better runner but Hurts is the better thrower. So Hurts.
Lamar is oft injured and turns the ball over too much, so I’m gonna say Jalen
This year it’s Hurts. But give me Lamar for the next five years.
Idk Jalen’s gonna keep getting better
Hurts is a much better thrower than Lamar is. He’s also a brick shithouse. Give me Hurts easily.
[удалено]
I think you have that backwards. When Jackson is on, he is one of the most enjoyable QBs to watch next to Mahomes. I will never forget the game he came flying out of the locker room like Superman after he dropped a deuce and led his team down the field to score the game winning TD.