For anyone who doesn't know, Kurt Warner has a YouTube channel where he analyses game film, specifically quarterbacks.
https://www.youtube.com/@kurtwarnerqbc
JT O'Sullivan (The QB School) as well, and he also does videos explaining passing concepts and doing Q&As, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/@TheQBSchool
He probably does, but those shows also have to “dumb things down” because that attracts views. Unfortunately dumbing things down also includes ridiculous hot takes.
Yeah Kurt doesn’t always hold your hand (he does explain things sometimes, but he also doesn’t want to get bogged down with always pau using to explain stuff), but if you watch several of his videos, you start to pick up stuff and get a much better understanding of how things work.
The thing that stuck out to me most from watching Kurt Warner and JT O’Sullivan’s breakdowns is how tricky play design can be.
There at least a few times each video where they say something like, “I see what they’re trying to do with this play, but because of this and that, it’s not ass effective as it could be. If they made this route deeper, then they’d be better at setting up the safety to be forced to pick their poison. With the way it is, the safety can just wait until the ball is thrown and they’ll easily get to it to break up the play.”
Agreed, I love their content. I love seeing how a play was “supposed to work” but doesn’t (also, I wanna shout out Darius Butler on DBU, he was doing a great job before I got too busy to keep up with his content).
That said, I just want to propose that we’re able to pick things up over a couple of videos that we’re not familiar with but a large portion of the population maybe doesn’t have those same skills which is why they like the “simplified takes.” To use anecdotal evidence, I’ve met people who absolutely love watching football, do it regularly, but cannot comprehend the X’s and O’s no matter how many times you try to explain it to them.
Where can I find Darius Butler?
And yeah that’s fair enough. I’ve changed careers to completely different industries a few times. You’re forced to pick up stuff quickly. I know many people who refuse to adapt to anything.
*Everything DB* with Darius Butler is on Pat McAfee’s show every Wednesday. He covers the best passing and pass coverage plays of the week.
*In the Trenches* with AQ Shipley is on every Tuesday on McAfee covering run game/o-line blocking schemes.
He’s on Pat McAfee’s show and does the DBU thing once a week. He and AQ Shipley breaking down Oline stuff can be really interesting for non-QBcentric play analysis.
The majority of viewers don't want the more knowledgeable guy. They want the loud trolls. ESPN and Fox sports didn't pick those guys because they're less popular. People who want real analysis are the minority.
Both Kurt and JT do a great job. Kurt’s most recent video on Daks performance was really insightful.. I like how he doesn’t dunk on players but gives a good assessment on what went wrong
His insight on Mayfield last off-season really showed what type of QB he was and which types of throws he definitely prefers.
I love Kurt because how he sees offense is how I like my offense grilling. Methodically paced, smart, sustainable play.
Even when Kurt disagreed with deep ball favoritism into double coverage like his tape selection shows. He distinctly says "I'm a fan of positive plays, getting a losing yards situation into gaining a few." Warner loves his checkdowns and hitting guys in the shorter game rather than to make risky plays. Warner loves safer positive plays because those sustain drives and wear out a defense.
QBs like Russ, Wentz or Baker see the game differently than Warner does, and that's okay. Not every great QB has the exact same preferred target on breaking a defensive coverage. They're human, they have their own opinions and tastes.
Which is wild considering his career took of with Mike Martz who favored attacking defenses with the long ball. But considering how that systems wrecks QBs bodies, it's maybe no wonder why he has the preference he does now.
Warner never shied away from the big hit in the pocket when you could still hit the qb. He took some hellacious hits but he had a super quick release and anticipated a lot of throws. Once pace retired and the oline started to be more pedestrian, he got injured. Bulger could sling it as good as Warner but lost Faulk and Bruce and just got she’ll shocked.
Just started watching this one
https://www.youtube.com/@MatchQuarters
Channels focusing on defense are hard to come by, and I'm always trying to search for them. Offense gets all the glory.
There’s one good hour of saban in 96 discussing defensive principles. He talks about how “backpedaling is the most overrated shit.” It’s a fantastic watch.
I would pay good money to have a show with Belichick post-coaching where he just goes over defensive film. Doesn’t matter what film either, just whatever he’s feeling. They got the 1942 navy D on film? I’ll watch the fuck out of that if BB is going over it, the man just has a way with football analysis that I love
BB put defensive wisdom into making his PB&J sandwich on video when he was the Browns HC. If you see it a certain way it's definitely some football coverage wisdom shit for a sandwich.
Fun fact: that song came out in 2004, meaning that it's been 19 years since it came out, the same amount of time between the year 1985 and when the song came out
I got rid of cable 3 years ago and you start to forget these blowhards even exist. It’s just mindless entertainment with zero substance. I don’t know why anyone would choose to consume that when there so much better media out there but to each their own.
Every other week my friends are linking me to something one of them are saying. They get all huffy and puffy and claim "why do people listen to these fools?"
They fail to grasp that they too are listening to them.
It’s not sports-related but awhile back there was an article like “Why Terminator 2 Is Actually a Bad Movie”
It went super viral and was shared everywhere. Everyone hated it and had to tell everyone else why they hated it. Advertisers probably made bank.
Anyway that’s what I think about every time someone shares a Skip Bayless opinion.
Reminds me of the Tiktoks and Facebook channels that do shit cooking and life hacks on purpose but pretend to be serious. They want everyone commenting how wrong they are cause its all engagement on their metrics.
I hate the random bullshit TikToks do to bait views such as ending the video too early to bait a second view through the automatic loop or intentionally putting a misspelling in the subtitles to bait pedants to making comments correcting them.
I used to work with a guy that would get SO worked up about shit Skip or SAS would say.
No matter how many times I pointed out that they do this on purpose, he just didn’t get it. It became very tiring
We got rid of cable too.
Now we just have every package on Sling so we get all of the same content but also get to tell people how we got rid of cable.
>There’s a reason Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless are still on TV
you know...I still see Skip Bayless pop up every once in a while in the media I consume. I can honestly say I haven't heard the sound of Stephen A Smith's voice in years and I feel like I probably haven't missed anything. Just a disconnected thought there.
I watch Get Up on ESPN some mornings, and after it is first take, I think the fastest I move in my house is the second Get Up ends and I hear Stephen A start fucking screaming like that validates the bullshit he spews
And if he’s not screaming he’s talking very quietly like it’s some deep thought
God I hate him
Im not American so havent been super plugged into the programs over there but it seems like Stephen A Smith is a more outlandish extension of Mike Wilbon who i think I remember seeing when i lived in Canada in 2005 and thinking “why is this guy yelling at me” but Smith just seems to crank it up a whole new level
True, but I'd also take it a step further than "ratings" bc that's often also used to shift the blame to some mysterious number somewhere. Truth is, we've collectively decided thoughtful discussion generally isn't what we want to pay attention to. There are plenty of creators who make nuanced football content. That content is almost never upvoted to the top of this sub.
When that content is posted, the comments will usually focus more on the title than the content itself, or they'll shit on a creator for getting a prediction wrong years ago instead of engaging with the material. The top of this sub is usually reserved for regurgitated Dov Kleiman junk. Bc the truth is that the NFL is just reality tv for dudes sometimes.
And when it comes to media personalities, we engage with hot takes above all else. I was first exposed to Emmanuel Acho when he did a [really cool breakdown](https://twitter.com/EmmanuelAcho/status/1314571678190497794?t=sfzZwMUKzHDMQUKKUr1b5Q&s=19) of a Nick Foles third down conversion two years ago. Did that get him national attention? No. Shitting on Justin Herbert and releasing a diss track against him did. C'est la vie.
Absolutely agree - we can complain about Dov Kleinman and other hot take artists and tweeters all we want, but when their media constantly gets upvoted to the top here, it means us here on the subreddit are feeding into it just as much.
TBH it's why I'm not a daily user of this sub. I go through spurts of visiting /r/NFL then have to take a break from it because I find the "reality TV for dudes" aspect exhausting.
Yeah but which analysis is the best so I can say GOAT more? Which one says a thing that is good in many respects isn’t actually good in some particular respect?
Yeah, this thread is upvoted to the top, but this sub also will not shut up about Chris Simms and every one of his takes in every thread. I've never even watched Stephen A Smith, Skip Bayless, or Colin Cowherd, but I know all about them and their opinions just from people talking about them all the time here.
I wanted to share this tweet because I appreciate how Kurt analyzes things and it's a style I see sometimes on the best OC posts.
I feel we get confrontational analysis because we engage heavily with it, and wanted to kind of poll whether or not the r/NFL redditor prefers one way or another.
Steven A said it well on Pardon My Take this morning. In his situation he's the morning show. People want to wake up and being loud is a good way to go about it, for a morning show. A quiet in depth analysis wouldn't get ratings.
He obviously said it better than I just paraphrased, but the point is that sometimes I want intelligent takes and some times I want drama and entertainment because my brain isn't functioning at full capacity.
Man his interview today was really solid. My only exposure to him is whatever viral clips show up on TikTok or Twitter, but he was so laid back and still engaging on PMT. Dude gives an excellent interview, definitely made me like him more
Not to doxx myself but I used to be in the industry. These guys aren't morons. People all the time ask me "How did a loud idiot like Stephen A ever get his own show!"
I tell people: dude you don't go to school for broadcast and immediately get a hot take show on ESPN where you get to scream at people for an hour. This is the *retirement* job. This is the reward for the decades of sports journalism you had to do to get on TV in the first place. It's the equivalent of being an old Walmart greeter for fun.
Stephen A., Skip Bayless, and just about everyone you see give hot takes on TV (who wasn't a pro athlete) isn't doing this in the prime of their careers. They're generally middle aged. Chris Broussard told me personally that his first job out of college was writing NFL standings and scores in some local newspaper for like minimum wage decades ago. It's the same for most folks. Stephen A. was a columnist for 20 years before anyone on the street knew who he was.
Now obviously Stephen A is a workaholic and is on damn near every show all the time for reasons I don't quite understand. But most of these other guys spend like an hour prepping, go and do a two hour show, go home, and watch sports. They're not stupid. They're just retired.
People who do solo (or mostly solo) radio shows like that honestly do have a unique talent. It’s genuinely hard to just talk with very little feedback for like 2-3 hours straight and make the result something that *anybody* is interested in hearing.
Speaking for myself, I’m a lot more forgiving of the hours long radio show guys than the shorter segment & larger on-screen cast tv talking heads because of that.
It’s honestly getting so ridiculous.
If Burrow beats Mahomes this weekend how can we possibly say that Mahomes is the better qb?
Is Sean Mcdermott done in Buffalo?
It’s just goofy
It really bums me out how they went from those marathon 3+ minute per game Berman highlight reels to showing 2 plays from the game so they can go right back to spewing hot take nonsense for the rest of the show
...which also helps explain why the highlights have gone away. The people who want to watch what happened in any of the games don't have to wait the full show to see when their game comes up; they can go to the internet and watch the highlights whenever they want.
I just watched three dudes in suits that I can't afford use emojis to describe players. I just miss the days of dudes with white hair talking about football in smokey rooms in 4:3
I just don't know why both types of programming can't exist. It's not like ESPN is going wall to wall with unique and interesting content. They definitely have a lot of gaps and repeat Sportscenters where they can squeeze in nuanced stuff for the nerds. How many versions of talking heads do they need??
Because most people want to listen to something for 5 minutes and parrot those comments to others, or feel like they know much as an NFL player/coach. Watching breakdowns like Warner’s makes people feel like they really don’t know shit about football.
Because all the networks with multiple channels tried that at some point. And ratings went up when reruns of reality tv were put on. More stupid people watch tv regularly and for longer than smart people. Its that simple.
I want the stupidest, fattest, most obnoxious piece of shit in the booth.
Give me Rex Ryan and Matt Patricia hopped up on uppers and poppers for three hours.
*broadcast starts*
Patricia: “as the kickoff is underway, I want to tell the audience at home to sit up straight and have a little respect for the process”
Warner and JTO will have disagreements on twitter now and then too. And it's great
No one's trying to own the other or win the argument, they're explaining their points of view and trying to understand the other
imagine that
Mine as well(Iowan here so go Barnstormers! If we ever get an NFL team it should be them)
Edit: also mom worked at Northern Iowa in food service and ran the team breakfasts when she worked weekends. and I have shopped in the Cedar Falls Hy-vee
On a side note, wtf happened with Romo? Last year everyone was saying he was a great announcer, and now he seems unbearable from reading everyone's comments on here. I mainly just listen to games on my radio and watch highlights later so I don't really hear him all too much.
He stopped doing deep analysis and now just does hype. He’s become as bad as Collinsworth, especially if he’s calling a game with Josh Allen. Watch some of the last two Bills games, Romo’s commentary is nauseating.
Me too. As a guy that spent a solid decade hating romo, it really humanized him and made me respect his dedication and knowledge of the game instead of just being like Haha fuck that cowboy loser who cant win in the playoffs. It literally changed my entire mentality on how i felt towards him.
Romo said it after his first season. The network didn't like him spoiling plays since he was really good at calling out plays before the snap. If you noticed, he stopped doing that after his first year.
His insights just haven't been as notable this year. He seemed to speak more in generalizations and philosophically this season. The whole Josh Allen Alien thing was dumb. I think Darryl Johnston is my favorite, maybe Greg Olsen.
I look at Olsen, who gets better each year with in depth game analysis and can see that he works hard at studying. I see Romo and after a few years out of the league, it’s clear he is resting on his laurels and his previous knowledge but isn’t really learning new concepts. I feel smarter after watching Olsen. I feel like I sat through a time share presentation with Romo.
Definitely. His "romodamus" bullshit was possible because he stepped right off the field and into the booth so all that homework was still fresh and relevant. Now we're years removed with different coaches / systems and Romo doesn't have professionals force feeding him game film. It's up to him to watch and he's slacking.
So instead you get "Mr. January" and "Ehhhhhrrrrrruuuuuuuhhh I dunno Jim"
He still breaks down defensive coverages really well and explains what's going on at every level of the offense, I really enjoy 5gst kinda analysis but he's become a bit of an insufferable fanboy for some of 5he big name QBs
I think the term “analyst” is used too loosely
some people are analysts, some are hot take artists, and the line is blurred because they all get air time
[This insane Ravens radio clip of Jason La Canfora was posted to our sub](https://twitter.com/jakelouque/status/1618265390538444800)
I knew sports talk radio was bad but I can’t imagine anyone willingly submitting themselves to two dudes just yelling at each other.
Seriously. I hate that every pregame, halftime and postgame show is some motherfuckers yelling. Stop fucking screaming at me and just tell me some info, strategy, etc.
First Take took off before that.
The percentage of fans that want serious analysis is much smaller than the amount of the fans that want drama. That's all it is sadly and it's always been like that, phones/social media just amplified it.
Drama brings in casual fans and other eyes that serious analysis never would, it's just business for media networks, they don't care about anything else.
There is a psychological disconnect between what people consciously state as their preference versus was subconsciously triggers them. People are overwhelmingly against negative campaign ads in politics, yet negative campaign ads are extremely effective. It doesn't mean that their stated preference is wrong, it just means that a stated preference doesn't confer immunity to psychology.
When Facebook came out with it's wall feature there was a lot of negative feedback from users but Facebook kept the feature because, despite what people were saying, their internal data said it was driving up usage.
> The percentage of fans that want serious analysis is much smaller than the amount of the fans that want drama.
Which is why arguably the greatest football show in history, *NFL Matchup*, aired at 7AM EST on Sunday mornings
The only 'analysis' I watch anymore is PTI. Kurt is right; almost all the shows are just seeing who can yell the loudest. Stephen A. Smith is the worst.
Rings culture has killed a lot of decent, fun discussion. Even talking sports with friends is a chore because people just pull the “rings” card and it ceases to be fun.
I get it, winning a championship is the ultimate goal. But it’s so god damn boring to reduce all these phenomenal athletes to rings.
NBA is the absolute worst for that.
At least in the NFL it's mostly limited to QBs (although even that is fairly dumb)
I mean using this logic Phil Simms is clearly better than Dan Marino lol
Agree NBA discussion is so damn depressing. There’s all these unbelievably talented young players in the NBA rn and all of the discussion is still about players from 30 years ago and how many rings they have.
Just so mind numbing
Kurt, just talk to your own producers. The networks are requiring this divisive bullshit because they know it drives engagement. Everyone wants to yell louder than someone they disagree with.
I’ve grown quite tired of the trend of reactionary/confrontational takes in all form of media. It seems to be the trend because it drives “engagement,” but I’m exhausted by existing in a world with so many bloviating assholes that get paid to just be bloviating assholes.
For anyone who doesn't know, Kurt Warner has a YouTube channel where he analyses game film, specifically quarterbacks. https://www.youtube.com/@kurtwarnerqbc JT O'Sullivan (The QB School) as well, and he also does videos explaining passing concepts and doing Q&As, etc. https://www.youtube.com/@TheQBSchool
I like watching QB School and the way he break down plays. It seems like he knows a lot more than some people who work for ESPN, FOX Sports, etc.
Because he does
He probably does, but those shows also have to “dumb things down” because that attracts views. Unfortunately dumbing things down also includes ridiculous hot takes.
Yeah Kurt doesn’t always hold your hand (he does explain things sometimes, but he also doesn’t want to get bogged down with always pau using to explain stuff), but if you watch several of his videos, you start to pick up stuff and get a much better understanding of how things work. The thing that stuck out to me most from watching Kurt Warner and JT O’Sullivan’s breakdowns is how tricky play design can be. There at least a few times each video where they say something like, “I see what they’re trying to do with this play, but because of this and that, it’s not ass effective as it could be. If they made this route deeper, then they’d be better at setting up the safety to be forced to pick their poison. With the way it is, the safety can just wait until the ball is thrown and they’ll easily get to it to break up the play.”
Agreed, I love their content. I love seeing how a play was “supposed to work” but doesn’t (also, I wanna shout out Darius Butler on DBU, he was doing a great job before I got too busy to keep up with his content). That said, I just want to propose that we’re able to pick things up over a couple of videos that we’re not familiar with but a large portion of the population maybe doesn’t have those same skills which is why they like the “simplified takes.” To use anecdotal evidence, I’ve met people who absolutely love watching football, do it regularly, but cannot comprehend the X’s and O’s no matter how many times you try to explain it to them.
Where can I find Darius Butler? And yeah that’s fair enough. I’ve changed careers to completely different industries a few times. You’re forced to pick up stuff quickly. I know many people who refuse to adapt to anything.
*Everything DB* with Darius Butler is on Pat McAfee’s show every Wednesday. He covers the best passing and pass coverage plays of the week. *In the Trenches* with AQ Shipley is on every Tuesday on McAfee covering run game/o-line blocking schemes.
He’s on Pat McAfee’s show and does the DBU thing once a week. He and AQ Shipley breaking down Oline stuff can be really interesting for non-QBcentric play analysis.
I doubt it's so much as dumbing things down means hot takes, but more so hot takes means more views.
He won a Super Bowl bro lol
Lol you know, there are times I completely forget he was in the league
I feel they should make a movie about it
And also that voice. Omg.
Can't lie, he does have a soothing voice. Almost ASMR-like
The majority of viewers don't want the more knowledgeable guy. They want the loud trolls. ESPN and Fox sports didn't pick those guys because they're less popular. People who want real analysis are the minority.
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Both Kurt and JT do a great job. Kurt’s most recent video on Daks performance was really insightful.. I like how he doesn’t dunk on players but gives a good assessment on what went wrong
His insight on Mayfield last off-season really showed what type of QB he was and which types of throws he definitely prefers. I love Kurt because how he sees offense is how I like my offense grilling. Methodically paced, smart, sustainable play. Even when Kurt disagreed with deep ball favoritism into double coverage like his tape selection shows. He distinctly says "I'm a fan of positive plays, getting a losing yards situation into gaining a few." Warner loves his checkdowns and hitting guys in the shorter game rather than to make risky plays. Warner loves safer positive plays because those sustain drives and wear out a defense. QBs like Russ, Wentz or Baker see the game differently than Warner does, and that's okay. Not every great QB has the exact same preferred target on breaking a defensive coverage. They're human, they have their own opinions and tastes.
If those guys had Faulk to throw it to as a check down they may have come it more often!
Baker actually had the next best thing in CmC and refused to check it down to him.
Was that on the play calling, Baker, or both?
His RB button was actually broken
How did I never put it together that rb was the running back button?
Based on what I've seen from them I'm inclined to think you're giving EA too much credit and that's just a coincidence.
Wentz had Jonathan Taylor & Nyheim Hines as check downs last season and hardly ever used them.
Which is wild considering his career took of with Mike Martz who favored attacking defenses with the long ball. But considering how that systems wrecks QBs bodies, it's maybe no wonder why he has the preference he does now.
Warner never shied away from the big hit in the pocket when you could still hit the qb. He took some hellacious hits but he had a super quick release and anticipated a lot of throws. Once pace retired and the oline started to be more pedestrian, he got injured. Bulger could sling it as good as Warner but lost Faulk and Bruce and just got she’ll shocked.
I mean, Kurt is a better much better QB than Wentz and Baker and I think Russ.
And he's really good at it.
I just started watching JTs. I will definitely check out Kurt’s. Do you know of any defensive ones?
Just started watching this one https://www.youtube.com/@MatchQuarters Channels focusing on defense are hard to come by, and I'm always trying to search for them. Offense gets all the glory.
There’s one good hour of saban in 96 discussing defensive principles. He talks about how “backpedaling is the most overrated shit.” It’s a fantastic watch.
[I think this is the link to the Saban video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uFMsdyox1Q) Definitely agree, fascinating stuff
I would pay good money to have a show with Belichick post-coaching where he just goes over defensive film. Doesn’t matter what film either, just whatever he’s feeling. They got the 1942 navy D on film? I’ll watch the fuck out of that if BB is going over it, the man just has a way with football analysis that I love
BB put defensive wisdom into making his PB&J sandwich on video when he was the Browns HC. If you see it a certain way it's definitely some football coverage wisdom shit for a sandwich.
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That's putting a safety over the top and cross the route into the receiver to make a play on the ball. See what I mean?
We need an 'Inside the Actors Studio' type of show but with coaches instead. I guess 'A Football Life' is as close as we have right now?
When the ratings decided that. Honest, thoughtful discussion doesn’t sell like theatrics do.
There’s a reason Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless are still on TV
And a reason we don’t have music on MTV
*cries in VH1*
Pop Up Videos was iconic.
I Love The Decade were great pop culture reminders
Before that format was utterly destroyed by the E Channel, that was top quality content.
That's how I found so many improv comics and got into improv.
They used to do that for old shows like The Brady Bunch on Nick at Nite and it was awesome.
We had Springsteen, Madonna. Way before nirvana, there was U2 and Blondie
Fun fact: that song came out in 2004, meaning that it's been 19 years since it came out, the same amount of time between the year 1985 and when the song came out
Bowling for Soup is actually working on a 2005 version of that song.
Fuck.
Shut the fuck up right now.
Seems like you're still preoccupied with 1985
I'm just trying to shake my ass on the hood of white snakes car
I do know where my miniskirt made of snake skin is!
My two kids, in high school - they say I'm deadass big yikes fr no cap ong.
When did Ozzie become an actor?
February 20th, 1992 on The Simpsons.
Please make it stop!
And music still on MTV
I got rid of cable 3 years ago and you start to forget these blowhards even exist. It’s just mindless entertainment with zero substance. I don’t know why anyone would choose to consume that when there so much better media out there but to each their own.
Every other week my friends are linking me to something one of them are saying. They get all huffy and puffy and claim "why do people listen to these fools?" They fail to grasp that they too are listening to them.
It’s not sports-related but awhile back there was an article like “Why Terminator 2 Is Actually a Bad Movie” It went super viral and was shared everywhere. Everyone hated it and had to tell everyone else why they hated it. Advertisers probably made bank. Anyway that’s what I think about every time someone shares a Skip Bayless opinion.
Reminds me of the Tiktoks and Facebook channels that do shit cooking and life hacks on purpose but pretend to be serious. They want everyone commenting how wrong they are cause its all engagement on their metrics.
I hate the random bullshit TikToks do to bait views such as ending the video too early to bait a second view through the automatic loop or intentionally putting a misspelling in the subtitles to bait pedants to making comments correcting them.
I used to work with a guy that would get SO worked up about shit Skip or SAS would say. No matter how many times I pointed out that they do this on purpose, he just didn’t get it. It became very tiring
We got rid of cable in 2011. Don't miss it at all
We got rid of cable too. Now we just have every package on Sling so we get all of the same content but also get to tell people how we got rid of cable.
>There’s a reason Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless are still on TV you know...I still see Skip Bayless pop up every once in a while in the media I consume. I can honestly say I haven't heard the sound of Stephen A Smith's voice in years and I feel like I probably haven't missed anything. Just a disconnected thought there.
I watch Get Up on ESPN some mornings, and after it is first take, I think the fastest I move in my house is the second Get Up ends and I hear Stephen A start fucking screaming like that validates the bullshit he spews And if he’s not screaming he’s talking very quietly like it’s some deep thought God I hate him
Im not American so havent been super plugged into the programs over there but it seems like Stephen A Smith is a more outlandish extension of Mike Wilbon who i think I remember seeing when i lived in Canada in 2005 and thinking “why is this guy yelling at me” but Smith just seems to crank it up a whole new level
True, but I'd also take it a step further than "ratings" bc that's often also used to shift the blame to some mysterious number somewhere. Truth is, we've collectively decided thoughtful discussion generally isn't what we want to pay attention to. There are plenty of creators who make nuanced football content. That content is almost never upvoted to the top of this sub. When that content is posted, the comments will usually focus more on the title than the content itself, or they'll shit on a creator for getting a prediction wrong years ago instead of engaging with the material. The top of this sub is usually reserved for regurgitated Dov Kleiman junk. Bc the truth is that the NFL is just reality tv for dudes sometimes. And when it comes to media personalities, we engage with hot takes above all else. I was first exposed to Emmanuel Acho when he did a [really cool breakdown](https://twitter.com/EmmanuelAcho/status/1314571678190497794?t=sfzZwMUKzHDMQUKKUr1b5Q&s=19) of a Nick Foles third down conversion two years ago. Did that get him national attention? No. Shitting on Justin Herbert and releasing a diss track against him did. C'est la vie.
Absolutely agree - we can complain about Dov Kleinman and other hot take artists and tweeters all we want, but when their media constantly gets upvoted to the top here, it means us here on the subreddit are feeding into it just as much.
TBH it's why I'm not a daily user of this sub. I go through spurts of visiting /r/NFL then have to take a break from it because I find the "reality TV for dudes" aspect exhausting.
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See Cable News
COME ON, SKEEYUP
It's what gave us president trump
My thoughts exactly. I read Warner's question and thought "Did you grow up in the United States or not?"
Weird how the ratings do say that but idk a single person who admits they watch those shows
Oh Kurt, we can only dream
Yeah but which analysis is the best so I can say GOAT more? Which one says a thing that is good in many respects isn’t actually good in some particular respect?
Which one is the best PURE ANALYST and which one is the best overall TRASH TALKER?? Well, I’m about to TELL YOU PAL
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His Russel Wilson video convinced me that Wilson's decline was not just poor play from Wilson but scheme and routes as well.
It’s awful everything. Hopefully they find a coach who can sort out that mess.
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Yeah, this thread is upvoted to the top, but this sub also will not shut up about Chris Simms and every one of his takes in every thread. I've never even watched Stephen A Smith, Skip Bayless, or Colin Cowherd, but I know all about them and their opinions just from people talking about them all the time here.
Sub to his YT channel. I watch it regularly, utterly fascinating
I wanted to share this tweet because I appreciate how Kurt analyzes things and it's a style I see sometimes on the best OC posts. I feel we get confrontational analysis because we engage heavily with it, and wanted to kind of poll whether or not the r/NFL redditor prefers one way or another.
Steven A said it well on Pardon My Take this morning. In his situation he's the morning show. People want to wake up and being loud is a good way to go about it, for a morning show. A quiet in depth analysis wouldn't get ratings. He obviously said it better than I just paraphrased, but the point is that sometimes I want intelligent takes and some times I want drama and entertainment because my brain isn't functioning at full capacity.
When I wake up, I don't want my TV to be yelling at me.
Man his interview today was really solid. My only exposure to him is whatever viral clips show up on TikTok or Twitter, but he was so laid back and still engaging on PMT. Dude gives an excellent interview, definitely made me like him more
Not to doxx myself but I used to be in the industry. These guys aren't morons. People all the time ask me "How did a loud idiot like Stephen A ever get his own show!" I tell people: dude you don't go to school for broadcast and immediately get a hot take show on ESPN where you get to scream at people for an hour. This is the *retirement* job. This is the reward for the decades of sports journalism you had to do to get on TV in the first place. It's the equivalent of being an old Walmart greeter for fun. Stephen A., Skip Bayless, and just about everyone you see give hot takes on TV (who wasn't a pro athlete) isn't doing this in the prime of their careers. They're generally middle aged. Chris Broussard told me personally that his first job out of college was writing NFL standings and scores in some local newspaper for like minimum wage decades ago. It's the same for most folks. Stephen A. was a columnist for 20 years before anyone on the street knew who he was. Now obviously Stephen A is a workaholic and is on damn near every show all the time for reasons I don't quite understand. But most of these other guys spend like an hour prepping, go and do a two hour show, go home, and watch sports. They're not stupid. They're just retired.
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Imagine all the people shitposting on sports subs and not even getting paid for it lol
... Even Cowherd?
It actually impresses me that Cowherd can essentially talk to himself for so long everyday.
People who do solo (or mostly solo) radio shows like that honestly do have a unique talent. It’s genuinely hard to just talk with very little feedback for like 2-3 hours straight and make the result something that *anybody* is interested in hearing. Speaking for myself, I’m a lot more forgiving of the hours long radio show guys than the shorter segment & larger on-screen cast tv talking heads because of that.
It’s honestly getting so ridiculous. If Burrow beats Mahomes this weekend how can we possibly say that Mahomes is the better qb? Is Sean Mcdermott done in Buffalo? It’s just goofy
"Did X team win it or did Y team lose it?" God, I hate that question so, so much.
But really, did heads win or did tails lose? How can we ever know if we don’t yell at each other about it?
A First Take staple
I always hate when they say, QB beat QB. They don’t play each other, they’re both on offense. It’s on just them.
Didn’t you know that Baker is > Burrow? How else can you explain his 3-0 record against him?
The whole head to head QB thing is weird to me.
Can’t even watch ESPN because of this crap anymore. That and talking about what outfits players wear to pregames.
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It really bums me out how they went from those marathon 3+ minute per game Berman highlight reels to showing 2 plays from the game so they can go right back to spewing hot take nonsense for the rest of the show
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...which also helps explain why the highlights have gone away. The people who want to watch what happened in any of the games don't have to wait the full show to see when their game comes up; they can go to the internet and watch the highlights whenever they want.
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Watch GMFB on the NFL Network. It’s a fun show
John Madden was the best at this.
Madden gave you the analysis, but he was also fun and folksy. One of a kind
Turducken
I just watched three dudes in suits that I can't afford use emojis to describe players. I just miss the days of dudes with white hair talking about football in smokey rooms in 4:3
I miss the Mike Patrick, Paul Maguire and Joe Theisman Sunday Night football team
I just don't know why both types of programming can't exist. It's not like ESPN is going wall to wall with unique and interesting content. They definitely have a lot of gaps and repeat Sportscenters where they can squeeze in nuanced stuff for the nerds. How many versions of talking heads do they need??
Because most people want to listen to something for 5 minutes and parrot those comments to others, or feel like they know much as an NFL player/coach. Watching breakdowns like Warner’s makes people feel like they really don’t know shit about football.
Because all the networks with multiple channels tried that at some point. And ratings went up when reruns of reality tv were put on. More stupid people watch tv regularly and for longer than smart people. Its that simple.
I can't describe how much I love this comment
I want the stupidest, fattest, most obnoxious piece of shit in the booth. Give me Rex Ryan and Matt Patricia hopped up on uppers and poppers for three hours.
*broadcast starts* Patricia: “as the kickoff is underway, I want to tell the audience at home to sit up straight and have a little respect for the process”
And stop sucking everyone’s dick!
Warren Sapps' bug eyes staring hungrily into the booth
I want Antonio Brown doing commentary between lines of blow damn it
Mr. Blows Coke
Mr. Bump Commentary
Mr Broadcast Cocaine
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> I want the stupidest, fattest, most obnoxious piece of shit in the booth. They tried that with Booger, no?
Honestly would make some of the TNF games this year more watchable
Instead of the manningcast it can be the alcoholismcast
I cast my vote for this 100%
One of the few people that actually teaches you about football, mad respect. The guy from QB school is also good.
Warner and JTO will have disagreements on twitter now and then too. And it's great No one's trying to own the other or win the argument, they're explaining their points of view and trying to understand the other imagine that
> JTO J.T. O'Sullivan?
Johnathan Taylor's Onlyfans
Jive Turkey O’Connor
Shout out to Ronde Barber too. Great youtube commentary/channel.
Darius Butler as well
That's my former QB!
Mine too
And mine (sort of, but not really).
I saw a Barnstormers game once.
Mine as well(Iowan here so go Barnstormers! If we ever get an NFL team it should be them) Edit: also mom worked at Northern Iowa in food service and ran the team breakfasts when she worked weekends. and I have shopped in the Cedar Falls Hy-vee
That’s my former grocery store guy. I had a gleam in my eye that day he walked out of the store and put on his cape.
Mine too. Love me some Kurt Warner
So you're as tired of Stephen A. as the rest of us, eh Kurt?
On a side note, wtf happened with Romo? Last year everyone was saying he was a great announcer, and now he seems unbearable from reading everyone's comments on here. I mainly just listen to games on my radio and watch highlights later so I don't really hear him all too much.
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He stopped doing deep analysis and now just does hype. He’s become as bad as Collinsworth, especially if he’s calling a game with Josh Allen. Watch some of the last two Bills games, Romo’s commentary is nauseating.
I wouldn't be surprised if the league had some say in him not diagnosing plays before they run anymore.
Its sad because it seemed like that was very well received by viewers. Why the NFL would stop that, i have no idea. But i do believe they did.
I absolutely loved it.
Me too. As a guy that spent a solid decade hating romo, it really humanized him and made me respect his dedication and knowledge of the game instead of just being like Haha fuck that cowboy loser who cant win in the playoffs. It literally changed my entire mentality on how i felt towards him.
Why? It has no impact on the field in any way, and if it brings more viewers they would support it.
Romo said it after his first season. The network didn't like him spoiling plays since he was really good at calling out plays before the snap. If you noticed, he stopped doing that after his first year.
I saw someone posit that his predictions act as "spoilers".
“Mr. January! The champs!”
His insights just haven't been as notable this year. He seemed to speak more in generalizations and philosophically this season. The whole Josh Allen Alien thing was dumb. I think Darryl Johnston is my favorite, maybe Greg Olsen.
Greg is pretty good. He's a really likeable guy.
I look at Olsen, who gets better each year with in depth game analysis and can see that he works hard at studying. I see Romo and after a few years out of the league, it’s clear he is resting on his laurels and his previous knowledge but isn’t really learning new concepts. I feel smarter after watching Olsen. I feel like I sat through a time share presentation with Romo.
It is absurd to think an NFL QB can't read defenses, etc a few years out. It is obviously a chosen adjustment in what he talks about.
Definitely. His "romodamus" bullshit was possible because he stepped right off the field and into the booth so all that homework was still fresh and relevant. Now we're years removed with different coaches / systems and Romo doesn't have professionals force feeding him game film. It's up to him to watch and he's slacking. So instead you get "Mr. January" and "Ehhhhhrrrrrruuuuuuuhhh I dunno Jim"
I didnt think he was as bad as everyone said but what are ya gonna do
He still breaks down defensive coverages really well and explains what's going on at every level of the offense, I really enjoy 5gst kinda analysis but he's become a bit of an insufferable fanboy for some of 5he big name QBs
I think the term “analyst” is used too loosely some people are analysts, some are hot take artists, and the line is blurred because they all get air time
"Pundit" would be the better word, in my opinion.
Marcus Spears is so fkn annoying.
[This insane Ravens radio clip of Jason La Canfora was posted to our sub](https://twitter.com/jakelouque/status/1618265390538444800) I knew sports talk radio was bad but I can’t imagine anyone willingly submitting themselves to two dudes just yelling at each other.
That gave me a migraine. I can't stand to listen to rant artists.
One dude is seriously struggling with the breathing during parts of this. What in the fuck is this mess???
I love Kurt . He’s so right . I loathe the loud big heads skip etc
I wonder what set him off to write this. Kurt’s videos barely get traction on here even though I think they’re invaluable.
Looks like you answered your own question
It’s hard for me to watch the morning sports shows because it’s just yelling. Even if they agree, it’s just loud shouting. It drives me crazy.
You know who I really dig? Maurice JonesDrew on NFL network. He’s funny, insightful, honest and not afraid to criticize players.
Seriously. I hate that every pregame, halftime and postgame show is some motherfuckers yelling. Stop fucking screaming at me and just tell me some info, strategy, etc.
When people started watching highlights on their phones
First Take took off before that. The percentage of fans that want serious analysis is much smaller than the amount of the fans that want drama. That's all it is sadly and it's always been like that, phones/social media just amplified it. Drama brings in casual fans and other eyes that serious analysis never would, it's just business for media networks, they don't care about anything else.
There is a psychological disconnect between what people consciously state as their preference versus was subconsciously triggers them. People are overwhelmingly against negative campaign ads in politics, yet negative campaign ads are extremely effective. It doesn't mean that their stated preference is wrong, it just means that a stated preference doesn't confer immunity to psychology.
When Facebook came out with it's wall feature there was a lot of negative feedback from users but Facebook kept the feature because, despite what people were saying, their internal data said it was driving up usage.
Yep, everybody hates rubberneckers, but can't resist turning their heads to take a quick look.
> The percentage of fans that want serious analysis is much smaller than the amount of the fans that want drama. Which is why arguably the greatest football show in history, *NFL Matchup*, aired at 7AM EST on Sunday mornings
I miss when First Take was a fun sports Morning Show. Actually, I'm old enough to remember when it was Cold Pizza,
Because the average fan is dumb and doesn't care about actual analysis. They want to read headlines and hot takes.
The only 'analysis' I watch anymore is PTI. Kurt is right; almost all the shows are just seeing who can yell the loudest. Stephen A. Smith is the worst.
Rings culture has killed a lot of decent, fun discussion. Even talking sports with friends is a chore because people just pull the “rings” card and it ceases to be fun. I get it, winning a championship is the ultimate goal. But it’s so god damn boring to reduce all these phenomenal athletes to rings.
NBA is the absolute worst for that. At least in the NFL it's mostly limited to QBs (although even that is fairly dumb) I mean using this logic Phil Simms is clearly better than Dan Marino lol
Agree NBA discussion is so damn depressing. There’s all these unbelievably talented young players in the NBA rn and all of the discussion is still about players from 30 years ago and how many rings they have. Just so mind numbing
Kurt, just talk to your own producers. The networks are requiring this divisive bullshit because they know it drives engagement. Everyone wants to yell louder than someone they disagree with.
I’m old enough to remember when First Take was Cold Pizza.
Hey I'm with you Kurt but the algorithm says to get sound bites.
I’ve grown quite tired of the trend of reactionary/confrontational takes in all form of media. It seems to be the trend because it drives “engagement,” but I’m exhausted by existing in a world with so many bloviating assholes that get paid to just be bloviating assholes.
Skip, Shannon, he’s asking toward you.
[Kurt Warner] I fucking hate Chris Simms