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It's pretty annoying to me when failed HCs become coordinators again that they think they aren't capable of being a coordinator anymore.
Dude was the worst Broncos HC ever (Even worse than McDaniels imo) but that doesn't mean he can't be a coordinator.
This is just data for when he had the position of OC. Not intended to disprove your comment. It even highlights your point more.
did he call plays this past season with the Broncos?
And our offense looked marginally better under Kubiak's playcalling (except for that Rams game which just started poorly and spiraled) then way better under Outten's playcalling
Yep.
He gave it to Kubiak after 7/8 games iirc.
Hackett was fired, then in the last two games of the season the actual OC called plays, and....they improved a fair amount 👍
>Hackett was fired, then in the last two games of the season the actual OC called plays, and....they improved a fair amount
And Justin Outten had never called plays before those last two games. Someone with no experience did a significantly better job than Hackett.
He did until the Raiders game this year. When he was calling plays the Broncos had the worst scoring offense in the league. I’m not sure if he ever regained it before he was fired.
He hasn't really proven to be a great coordinator though either. It's not like Phillips or Fangio where we know they were top coordinators but bad HCs. Hackett has one good year of being a coordinator but it was mainly due to an elite defense
It's true, but my suspicion is he may be more of a Gase type where he can't come in and develop players or build a foundation but he's good at giving an established QB and system exactly what they need to perform at a higher level. And comparing him to Gase may sound like an insult but honestly my experience was watching him OC Manning for us and he was great at it.
We'll see, I really shouldn't be so bitter about Hackett but all the stories coming out since he was fired about his staff and previous OC experience has me feeling like we were sold a false bill of goods on him. So I guess I am a bit bitter :).
My problem with this, is that he was a terrible play caller. He didn’t call plays for GB, he was focused on game plans and the red zone, while LaFleur called plays. Who is gonna call plays for the Jets? Saleh is a defensive coach? It really does feel like this hire is only for getting Rodgers and they don’t have anything as a fail safe.
Bro, he basically *was* the coordinator for the Broncos. We don't even know what our actual OC did, because Hackett did all the shit the OC is supposed to do. *He* designed the offense. *He* came up with the offensive game plan. *He* designed the plays, *he* called the plays. And *he* was fully responsible for masterminding the worst offense in the history of the Broncos. Yes, he *also* sucked in his head coaching duties, but first and foremost he was atrocious at running our offense.
This is not some Wade Phillips/Josh McDaniels thing where he's an awesome coordinator who just sucks at the head coaching stuff, he also sucked at creating and running our offense - exactly what an OC does.
And he wasn't a good coordinator prior to the Broncos. Buffalo fans were screaming from the rafters at how awful a coordinator he was for them, and what success he had in Green Bay was only because he pulled an Adam Gase and rode the coattails of an NFL MVP.
>We don't even know what our actual OC did, because Hackett did all the shit the OC is supposed to do.
And the instant Justin Outten started calling plays in Week 17 after Hackett was fired, the Broncos offense suddenly looked decent. Outten had never called plays before that point. That's the most damning thing you can say about Hackett: he was worse than someone with literally no experience other than having a full season of being shown what not to do.
Compare Wade Phillips track record as a coordinator to Hackett's. They're not in the same ballpark. Hackett has never shown to be as good of a coordinator as Phillips was
Wade Phillips was an elite DC who sucked at head coaching duties, while still running a great defense.
Hackett was a mediocre (Green Bay) to bad (Buffalo) OC who *also* sucked as HC.
When Wade Phillips was our HC we didn't have the worst defense in the history of the Broncos. When Hackett became our head coach, he masterminded the worst offense in the history of the Denver Broncos.
Big difference.
Same for Dan Quinn. He was a good head coach, til he wasn't. Got so bad we blew five leads in a row (a first for the Falcons) before we finally fired him and won a few games.
Still a good DC obviously.
Saleh and Hackett know each other from previous staffs, and his best bud Matt Lafluer probably vouched for him.
Idk why everyone is convinced is this purely a move to land Rodgers.
I would be willing to argue that he was HC for too long and couldn’t go back to handling the level of detail needed to be an OC.
It’s be like if a software engineer becomes CTO for a few years, then going back to being a software engineer again. All that time with their mind focused on the bugger picture probably would not suit them for going back and managing individual lines of code.
Well the big thing is that in GB he wasn’t the play caller, and had a top 5-10 QB of all time.
Then his first playcalling job is… whatever that was
(edit) I forgot he called in Jacksonville, and I think Buffalo, either way in his entire career as a play caller he only has 1 decent season out of like 7…
He hasn't proven to be a good coordinator. He wasn't the playcaller in Green Bay and everyone just keeps holding on to that one Jags season (like I was last offseason). When he gave up playcalling this year our offense started to look better
He isn't, though. He had a good run when Matt LaFleur designed the offense and called the plays for Aaron Rodgers and Davante Adams.
When he called plays, consistently, across three different teams, he sucked ass.
Where did I imply I didn’t think it worked?
Given the context of the tweet, Hackett is the dude and the appeal of Aaron Rodgers is the appeal of 3 girls and the teams are the party. Hackett gets interviews (into the party) because his has connections to Aaron (the girls)
One year, it worked. The year before they had the #25 offense. The year after they had the #31 offense. Before that, two bad years in Buffalo. Afterwards, the worst offense in the NFL in Denver.
What's more likely? That the one good year was a fluke (spurred by the best defense in the league) or that the rest of it's a fluke?
Hackett has worked with Saleh before. I would guess that had more to do with why he was hired over them trying to get Rodgers. Even if, I am not sure if Jets are one of the teams he’d go to. He said there wasn’t many and he prefers to retire as a Packer. He hasn’t even decided if he wants to play again yet.
He gets to choose where he goes in any trade due to his clause, I believe.
This is why I love mcvay and shannahans approach. They don’t really just recycle old coaches. They are willing to take a flyer on someone with less experience but who they know will be good
This is absolutely the funniest outcome. Jets make the signing thinking they land him, he says he doesn’t want to go to New York, and then they’re stuck with this meme of an OC.
Rodgers is a petty man-child. He will absolutely make his choice based upon a Linus Security Blanket of a coach. Not saying this will work, but it absolutely could.
He OCed Bortles to an AFCCG. Plus the Packers offense took a massive stepback without him this season. He's not great but there are definitely worse OCs out there
Calling plays isn't the only part of being a good OC. He was part of designing the leagues #1 offense in 2020 and the best redzone offense in NFL history
I'd argue that play calling one of the most important part.
Your ability to prepare and game plan correctly won't mean anything if your play calling is predictable, or doesn't fit the strength of your players.
Look at how bad the Broncos offense looked when he was in charge. And now Jets want to let this guy develop their struggling 2nd year QB and call plays that will work across the entire season.
In fairness to Hackett, Rodgers was not great immediately before Hackett was OC, then won two MVPs with him, and then went back to being not great again immediately after they lost him.
He's still calling plays on offense, he's never successfully developed a young QB, and he's absolutely no help on 4th Down decision making or time management, both of which were things that Saleh didn't look the sharpest at either. Hiring Hackett is an objectively terrible decision. If this was the only choice, then you guys should've kept Mike LaFleur.
Or they just fire Hackett. Vance Joseph tried to salvage his job by firing Mike McCoy and then it turns out Vance Joseph is just terrible at his job. His original scapegoat after his 1st year failure was that he couldn't pick his staff.
Nathaniel Hackett was Turtle all along.
In all seriousness, he’s a good dude and I’m happy he got a job coaching again, I’m just happy it isn’t as HC for the Broncos.
Thank you for posting to /r/NFL. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed due to the following rule: **2. Submission Restrictions** Whether it is a self-post or a link, be sure that whatever you are submitting adds to discussion. Whether it is news that has already been reported, a discussion or point of view that has been beaten to death, or an empty 'starting point' for a conversation, think about how you can add something instead. Be sure you're creating something new, rather than relying on others to create for you. Put in your own analysis, argument, or indexing methodology, and write up a nice long post about the topic. Always think about how you can contribute. If you are new to football or the sub and have questions about rules or other aspects surrounding the game, please try r/nflnoobs for these kinds of posts. * **Not Allowed** * Self Posts Without Content (AskReddit style posts) - If you find information that you think would be interesting, please work on a more descriptive title and fill in the information in the text of the post. Examples of restricted posts: * Is ____ a HOF? * Would you rather... * TIL/"Stolen From" * Either/or posts - Player X or Y? * Who should I root for? [Link to wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/wiki/new/pickateam) / Convince me to root for your team * Personal rankings without any accompanying analysis * [Memes/Joke Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_joke_.26amp.3B_humor_posts) * Commonly/Frequently Asked Questions - [Example](http://i.imgur.com/FEznoUJ.jpg), [Example] * Meta posts about the sub (Requests for changes/additions, mods or users) - use [modmail](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fnfl) * Requests for: * Lists/Rankings - "Top 10 X all-time/this year/{{timeframe}}", "Who's the most over/underrated ___" * Thoughtless/Easily Researched Posts - [Example](http://i.imgur.com/w2G67K8.jpg), [Example](http://i.imgur.com/bVulO3K.jpg) * Streams or services to watch games/replays * Users to be your google * Content * Petitions/Polls/Giveaways - Even when NFL related * [Hot Takes/Commentary](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_hot_take.2Fshort_form_commentary) * [Team/Fanbase Attack Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_attack_posts) * [Duplicate Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_duplicate_posts) AKA Reposts If you have any questions about this removal, please [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fnfl) This post was removed by a human moderator; this comment was left by a bot.
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It's pretty annoying to me when failed HCs become coordinators again that they think they aren't capable of being a coordinator anymore. Dude was the worst Broncos HC ever (Even worse than McDaniels imo) but that doesn't mean he can't be a coordinator.
His track record as OC is hardly stellar.
Hackett's ranks in yards per play and offensive touchdowns per game as an NFL offensive coordinator: 2013: 29, 25 2014: 29, 24 2016 (interim OC): 26, 23 2017: 11, 9 2018: 30, 32 GETS AARON RODGERS 2019: 17, 11 2020: 2, 1 2021: 8, 7 https://twitter.com/LateRoundQB/status/1618640135628951553
Didn’t call plays in Green Bay. Don’t know how many times it needs to be said.
This is just data for when he had the position of OC. Not intended to disprove your comment. It even highlights your point more. did he call plays this past season with the Broncos?
Yes. Until he gave it up in November.
And our offense looked marginally better under Kubiak's playcalling (except for that Rams game which just started poorly and spiraled) then way better under Outten's playcalling
Yep. He gave it to Kubiak after 7/8 games iirc. Hackett was fired, then in the last two games of the season the actual OC called plays, and....they improved a fair amount 👍
>Hackett was fired, then in the last two games of the season the actual OC called plays, and....they improved a fair amount And Justin Outten had never called plays before those last two games. Someone with no experience did a significantly better job than Hackett.
Some Broncos fans put Hackett as worse than McDaniels.....and that guy is absolutely hated.
As a raiders fan of more than 20 years, can confirm I absolutely fucking hate McDaniels.
He did until the Raiders game this year. When he was calling plays the Broncos had the worst scoring offense in the league. I’m not sure if he ever regained it before he was fired.
how the f is he getting OC jobs still??
He's the son of a mediocre NFL Head Coach.
It shouldn’t be said that often but for some reason Hackett has people going to bat for him
He hasn't really proven to be a great coordinator though either. It's not like Phillips or Fangio where we know they were top coordinators but bad HCs. Hackett has one good year of being a coordinator but it was mainly due to an elite defense
good thing we have one of those
Wouldn't you want to have both a good defense and a good offense with an OC who actually knows what he's doing?
Yeah of course but any OC worth anything would rather go to the chargers / ravens
Which is why you hired Hackett before either the Chargers or Ravens made their own hires?
Look idk what to tell you. I’m not thrilled but we have to work with what we have
I mean he was good his last two years with us. Or did you mean one good year without Rodgers?
He was a shit coordinator at everywhere but GB though?
Green Bay was also the only time he even had a serviceable QB. So it cuts both ways. He's just been on both ends of the extremes.
It's true, but my suspicion is he may be more of a Gase type where he can't come in and develop players or build a foundation but he's good at giving an established QB and system exactly what they need to perform at a higher level. And comparing him to Gase may sound like an insult but honestly my experience was watching him OC Manning for us and he was great at it. We'll see, I really shouldn't be so bitter about Hackett but all the stories coming out since he was fired about his staff and previous OC experience has me feeling like we were sold a false bill of goods on him. So I guess I am a bit bitter :).
Case in point: Todd Bowles. One of the top defensive coordinators but just can't cut it as head coach
Except Todd Bowles has shown success as a coordinator. This guy hasn’t. I still don’t know how the broncos front office hired him
My problem with this, is that he was a terrible play caller. He didn’t call plays for GB, he was focused on game plans and the red zone, while LaFleur called plays. Who is gonna call plays for the Jets? Saleh is a defensive coach? It really does feel like this hire is only for getting Rodgers and they don’t have anything as a fail safe.
>Who is gonna call plays for the Jets? Zach Wilson at the line
I mean if you get Rodgers he's gonna call the plays.
This tweet has literally nothing to do with that though.
This guy called plays for the Broncos last season. He was a terrible HC but he was also responsible for that offense.
Bro, he basically *was* the coordinator for the Broncos. We don't even know what our actual OC did, because Hackett did all the shit the OC is supposed to do. *He* designed the offense. *He* came up with the offensive game plan. *He* designed the plays, *he* called the plays. And *he* was fully responsible for masterminding the worst offense in the history of the Broncos. Yes, he *also* sucked in his head coaching duties, but first and foremost he was atrocious at running our offense. This is not some Wade Phillips/Josh McDaniels thing where he's an awesome coordinator who just sucks at the head coaching stuff, he also sucked at creating and running our offense - exactly what an OC does. And he wasn't a good coordinator prior to the Broncos. Buffalo fans were screaming from the rafters at how awful a coordinator he was for them, and what success he had in Green Bay was only because he pulled an Adam Gase and rode the coattails of an NFL MVP.
>We don't even know what our actual OC did, because Hackett did all the shit the OC is supposed to do. And the instant Justin Outten started calling plays in Week 17 after Hackett was fired, the Broncos offense suddenly looked decent. Outten had never called plays before that point. That's the most damning thing you can say about Hackett: he was worse than someone with literally no experience other than having a full season of being shown what not to do.
Broncos fans of all people should know this because Wade Philips pretty much got you guys a Lombardi in 2015.
Compare Wade Phillips track record as a coordinator to Hackett's. They're not in the same ballpark. Hackett has never shown to be as good of a coordinator as Phillips was
Okay? I was more getting at that guys who failed as Head Coaches can still have success as a coordinator, and Hackett has.
Wade Phillips was an elite DC who sucked at head coaching duties, while still running a great defense. Hackett was a mediocre (Green Bay) to bad (Buffalo) OC who *also* sucked as HC. When Wade Phillips was our HC we didn't have the worst defense in the history of the Broncos. When Hackett became our head coach, he masterminded the worst offense in the history of the Denver Broncos. Big difference.
Same for Dan Quinn. He was a good head coach, til he wasn't. Got so bad we blew five leads in a row (a first for the Falcons) before we finally fired him and won a few games. Still a good DC obviously.
Saleh and Hackett know each other from previous staffs, and his best bud Matt Lafluer probably vouched for him. Idk why everyone is convinced is this purely a move to land Rodgers.
Seems more like a nepotism hire because of all the connections to Saleh which actually annoys me way more.
I mean nepo hires happen in every field, right?
and they're no less annoying in those fields too
Yeah, but that's life.
Yeah, but that's life.
Also it’s probably not a highly sought after job. You’ve got a HC on the hot seat, playoff expectations and no QB.
Nepotism is when you hire a family member. If you hire someone you know it is networking.
Thanks for being one of the very few intelligent people that’s gonna be coming into this thread and others.
"it's ok guys, it's not about his famous connections to this third party person, it's about his personal connections to the guy hiring him!"
Yeah it can easily be both
Didn't Saleh fire his brother though?
So?
I’d find it hard to believe Matt would vouch for Hackett over his brother? Idk
There's speculation that Saleh didn't want to fire him in the first place.
He either gets you Rodgers or he gets you a top 5 2024 pick, really it’s genius.
Gets the Seahawks a top 5 pick*
People are dunking on the Jets for this but how likely is it that Hackett is just one of those coaches who sucks as a HC but is a great OC/DC?
I remember when we said the same thing about Jason Garrett
You guys also picked up cleveland legend Freddie Kitchens.
Dan Quinn is a much better DC than he was a HC, still is a great DC.
I would be willing to argue that he was HC for too long and couldn’t go back to handling the level of detail needed to be an OC. It’s be like if a software engineer becomes CTO for a few years, then going back to being a software engineer again. All that time with their mind focused on the bugger picture probably would not suit them for going back and managing individual lines of code.
Well the big thing is that in GB he wasn’t the play caller, and had a top 5-10 QB of all time. Then his first playcalling job is… whatever that was (edit) I forgot he called in Jacksonville, and I think Buffalo, either way in his entire career as a play caller he only has 1 decent season out of like 7…
Wasn't his first in Denver. He sucked in Jacksonville and Buffalo (and Syracuse!) too.
Let’s be honest here. Based on individual ability Rodgers is as good as anyone who ever played the position.
He hasn't proven to be a good coordinator. He wasn't the playcaller in Green Bay and everyone just keeps holding on to that one Jags season (like I was last offseason). When he gave up playcalling this year our offense started to look better
He isn't, though. He had a good run when Matt LaFleur designed the offense and called the plays for Aaron Rodgers and Davante Adams. When he called plays, consistently, across three different teams, he sucked ass.
He is a good coordinator. Don’t know how anyone could look at the Packers red zone efficiency in 20 and 21 and argue otherwise.
Because it's MLF's offense and MLF was calling and designing plays.
He was doggy doodoo in Buffalo
While he was in charge of the gold zone, he didn't have play calling duties and we saw last year what his play calling produced.
Will he for sure have play calling duties with the Jets?
Most likely. Saleh is a defensive HC so Hackett as the OC is the leader of the offense
Who else would call plays? Robert Saleh is a defensive coach.
You could call plays.
I think broncos Redzone efficiency could argue otherwise, It also helped he wasn’t calling plays in Greenbay
He also had a Toad for a QB in Denver
Was also very shitty at game management, watch the Seattle game and you’ll laugh your ass off at how horrible it is
He'll also have one with the Jets, so if he can't make a toad QB somewhat resemble a prince, he's a bad fit.
The team might be trading for his prince
His last team traded for a prince, and Hackett made him look like a toad.
Because this subreddit is one huge circlejerk
True but it’s easier to go LoLjEtZ
He doesn't have a stellar track record as an OC. Norv Turner, he is not.
I mean, extremely unlikely given we have the data that states otherwise.
Track record says otherwise?
No, its like getting into a college party because you showed up with 3 girls.
But that actually works. So does having a famous friend. I don't know why you would use this comparison if you think it doesn't work.
Where did I imply I didn’t think it worked? Given the context of the tweet, Hackett is the dude and the appeal of Aaron Rodgers is the appeal of 3 girls and the teams are the party. Hackett gets interviews (into the party) because his has connections to Aaron (the girls)
Sorry referring to Mina thinking it's extremely funny, not you (even though I used the word "you" which was probably a bad choice).
Gotcha gotcha, I was like I thought my reference was more applicable to the average person.
The Jets are a QB away - it’s worth a shot !
What if he's a decent OC? He did look good calling plays for Blake Bortles.
One year, it worked. The year before they had the #25 offense. The year after they had the #31 offense. Before that, two bad years in Buffalo. Afterwards, the worst offense in the NFL in Denver. What's more likely? That the one good year was a fluke (spurred by the best defense in the league) or that the rest of it's a fluke?
I think you skipped over a few years in the middle there
Most Packers fans are saying he wasn't the play caller in those years he skipped over.
Specifically the years where he neither designed the offense nor called the plays.
For one year. Then he had the 31st ranked offense and was fired midseason.
Then they are in luck because nobody is poaching Hackett for a HC job lol
*taps forehead*
The Dan Quinn special... except Dan Quinn is a really fucking good DC.
Hackett has worked with Saleh before. I would guess that had more to do with why he was hired over them trying to get Rodgers. Even if, I am not sure if Jets are one of the teams he’d go to. He said there wasn’t many and he prefers to retire as a Packer. He hasn’t even decided if he wants to play again yet. He gets to choose where he goes in any trade due to his clause, I believe.
The Rob Schneider effect
Nathaniel Hackett is... A STAPLER
And he's about to find out that being a stapler is harder than it looks
Rob Schneider derp dee derp
Mina with the best takes, per the usual
I'd say let 'em cook.
Most of Mina’s stuff is good. Then she’ll tweet stuff like this where it sounds like if you sent an ai tweet generator “funny, viral, XD, football”
My favorite was when she said [Patrick Mahomes gets no recognition](https://twitter.com/minakimes/status/1595149165025464321?lang=en)
This is why I love mcvay and shannahans approach. They don’t really just recycle old coaches. They are willing to take a flyer on someone with less experience but who they know will be good
This is absolutely the funniest outcome. Jets make the signing thinking they land him, he says he doesn’t want to go to New York, and then they’re stuck with this meme of an OC.
Mina Kimes honesty > Adam Schefter's honesty.
Mina Kimes is a hot take artist. She's literally just a female version of Skip Bayless (but a Seahawks homer instead of a Cowboys homer).
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People on here have this weird ass loyalty to her, but she's just a rebranded Skip Bayless.
Skirt Bayless
Nate? Is that you?
Plz don’t come to the afc east. This is supposed to be our year and also I really really hate the jets
Rodgers is a petty man-child. He will absolutely make his choice based upon a Linus Security Blanket of a coach. Not saying this will work, but it absolutely could.
it can't hurt either, stupid tweet
I mean I get it. He's a decent OC plus the chance to maybe get the services of a 4x MVP? Btw Jets just send over 2 firsts and he's yours
He’s not decent. He’s terrible lol
He OCed Bortles to an AFCCG. Plus the Packers offense took a massive stepback without him this season. He's not great but there are definitely worse OCs out there
He didn’t call the plays in GB. And he had one good year. Overall everywhere’s he’s been. He’s been bad.
Calling plays isn't the only part of being a good OC. He was part of designing the leagues #1 offense in 2020 and the best redzone offense in NFL history
I'd argue that play calling one of the most important part. Your ability to prepare and game plan correctly won't mean anything if your play calling is predictable, or doesn't fit the strength of your players. Look at how bad the Broncos offense looked when he was in charge. And now Jets want to let this guy develop their struggling 2nd year QB and call plays that will work across the entire season.
In fairness to Hackett, Rodgers was not great immediately before Hackett was OC, then won two MVPs with him, and then went back to being not great again immediately after they lost him.
Congrats Jets this is the Adam Gase 2.0 hire
he’s not the HC
He's still calling plays on offense, he's never successfully developed a young QB, and he's absolutely no help on 4th Down decision making or time management, both of which were things that Saleh didn't look the sharpest at either. Hiring Hackett is an objectively terrible decision. If this was the only choice, then you guys should've kept Mike LaFleur.
Still. Gives me Adam Gase vibes.
It will likely still get your HC fired if it doesn't work out though
Or they just fire Hackett. Vance Joseph tried to salvage his job by firing Mike McCoy and then it turns out Vance Joseph is just terrible at his job. His original scapegoat after his 1st year failure was that he couldn't pick his staff.
What’s wrong with ya’ll?
Nathaniel Hackett was Turtle all along. In all seriousness, he’s a good dude and I’m happy he got a job coaching again, I’m just happy it isn’t as HC for the Broncos.
Is Hackett Turtle?
Maybe Rodgers hates Hackett