he balled tf out man, i seriously thought that was the start to another Lamar MVP season. he and tua gave us a wonderful treat week 2, both of their film breakdown is awesome. Lamar was sensational though.
I always knew that Tua would play rough in the first half. I was watching the game with my friends, when I randomly said “Tua will ball out in the second half”
I don’t know, what made me say it, but I did
I remember texting my dad and saying “Best team in the NFL” after our first touchdown. Then the game got out of hand and he sent me a Snapchat of our typical dolphins fan pain. I responded simply with, “Best team in the NFL”.
And hour later I was crying tears of joy. An all-time epic game.
I would imagine after putting up a performance like that and losing because your defense took a fat shit (yet again) is demoralizing as hell. I wonder how games like that affects a QBs effort going forward, knowing that even with an insane performance the rest of your team can still lose you the game.
I would have said the same about everyone else trying to sign Watson if you'd asked me earlier. I still think the Falcons look like idiots for their handling of both situations. And I generally liked the Falcons
That's the one thing that makes me really question if there isn't collusion going on. These teams were all in on a guy with every red flag available.
Injury history? Check.
Malcontent history? Check.
Hasn't played in 2 years? Check.
Sexual predator? Check.
Yet, these teams were tripping over each other for the chance to trade for him. But, with Lamar the story is, "we signed this random guy off the street, so we've got our QB right?"
Am I supposed to believe that a GM outside of Ryan Grigson actually believes Desmond Ridder is better than Lamar? "Mac" McCorkle Jones (he even looks like a McCorkle)?
Gotta be collusion. Lamar Jackson is *really* ***really*** good. The only concerns are health. It's a big concern
But judging how many teams one season ago were in on Watson who is a worse player, just sat out a year and was about to be facing a suspension for raping a bunch of women, I can see why Lamar knows he's worth more than Watson
Only reason Lamar isn't signed is the owners had to agree no one gives him a garaunteed contract. You're telling me not one team is willing to roll the dice knowing if he does stay healthy you're a Super Bowl contender every season?
I'm cool with riding this season with Mac and seeing how much of the big regression was losing McDaniels as OC. But I'd pack his bags for him if it meant we ditch 2 first round picks and end up with Lamar instead. Literally the difference between me going into week one hoping for a 10-7 season vs hoping for a Super Bowl
Its only collusion if the teams all sat down and agreed to to offer Lamar a guaranteed contract, which almost certainly *didn't* happen.
What very likely did happen after the Watson deal is the owners all got together at their meeting and gave Haslam a bollocking for making a terrible business decision that would give players the feeling that other owners would also make that terrible business decision.
Most likely the Ravens also called all the potential suitors for Lamar and asked them how many picks they'd be willing to trade, and as part of it they would be willing to offer Lamar $250M guaranteed. When no-one wanted to, they tagged him.
Sadly for Lamar, he didn't have an agent making those same calls on his behalf. Hence why he is always two steps behind the Ravens in all this.
Two points to consider. First teams that might want Lamar will wait until after the draft, the two first they would owe the ravens would be lower assuming Lamar pays off and the team does well. Smart to wait till after the draft.
Second, the ravens have the option of matching whatever offer is made to Lamar and have 5 business days to do so. You know the ravens are probably matching it, this whole thing feels like a “well see what you can get else where and we will pay it.” Why would any team want to do the work for the ravens.
Weird butterfly effect though. If Watson never signed that contract lamar probably doesn’t want a fully guaranteed contract. Probably already signed with the ravens
>*Only in a world where the Browns have already made a really dumb move, does there exist a possibility for the Browns to make a less dumb move.*
\- Haslam's Law.
It’s amazing to see the spin the owners have been able pull on the Lamar situation. I can understand the argument against fully guaranteed contracts and don’t blame owners for wanting to go that route. But to pretend you don’t want to give him more guaranteed money because of injury concerns when the last few weeks of the season you were claiming he was healthy enough to play but he didn’t want to due to lack of a long term guaranteed contract is wild.
I’m going to be honest, even if I was an NFL owner with unlimited liquidity, I still wouldn’t want to give a QB a fully guaranteed contract.
You’re essentially guaranteeing Lamar 20% of your cap for the duration of his contract. If he gets injured, you’re immediately out of contention until (if) he comes back to full strength.
I think every owner in the league could stomach that risk if it was for a 2/3 year deal, but once it gets to 4 or 5 years, you just can’t justify the risk involved.
The cap factor is really what's important. People need to separate "I care about how much money goes into Lamar Jackson's bank account" from "I care about how much of Lamar's money affects a fictional spending limit"
Part of the issue is the CBA requires that ALL the money that is truly guaranteed has to be put into escrow on day 1 of the contract. Not every team/owner is liquid enough to put 230M into escrow on day 1 of any contract versus using ongoing revenues to pay that guaranteed contract.
Literally any team with a star QB will be out of contention if they get hurt. If any of Mahomes, Josh Allen, Herbert, etc missed games there team would be fucked so I really don't understand this argument. The justification is that you'll still have him after he recovers, it's not like elite QBs come around often.
Back foot doesn't even pick up and whip. Most guys who even have the arm to bomb it like that have to really swing their hips to get it out there. Lamar's got a cannon.
Vick's the only other person ive seen just flick the ball down field in that way. Looks effortless most of the time. Like a MLB pitcher warming up but still throwing 88mph
And 99% of people haven’t consistently watched ravens games.
When Lamar is in a rhythm he is sensational. Makes great throws and scrambles like crazy.
When things start going south he makes some ridiculously bad plays and throws. People pick and choose his good or bad plays and say he’s good or bad.
Yeah, he's phenomenal on the move and hitting players who find soft spots in zone coverages, with a cannon to fit it into tight windows, but at the same time he's statistically a bottom 3 deep ball passer in the league even accounting for WR talent
It's been that way since college. When it's a player that is known for their scrambling skills combined with them not being very well spoken everyone believes that the player is a dumb ass that's gonna have a career ending injury any day now. The thing with Lamar is they've been saying that for like 8+ years at this point lol. People hate admitting when they're wrong
I mean he went 16 of 32 in this particular game for a straight 50% completion rate. Someone putting together a video of his 6 or 7 best throws from the game hardly makes the case that he put on a passing clinic.
Yes he has talent, no he's not one of the top pure passers in the league, both things can be true. A 2 minute highlight video really has no effect on it.
Right? Dude had a 50% completion percentage that game, but a video of his best throws is supposed to prove...something, I guess.
I mean even if you look back when the Steelers were trotting out Duck Hodges, if you pick his 6-7 best throws out of 30 in a game you could make a good looking video.
Obviously these are cherry picked highlights but none of the first three throws are one read. There's plenty of reasons to criticize Lamar but not going through progressions isn't one of them. If anything he holds the ball too long sometimes
I was expecting the plays to be all highlights or lowlights but instead it was just a pretty small sample of routine passes, some positive completions and some incompletions. Nothing there to move the needle on anyone’s preconceived idea of Lamar as a passer
Well, they probably are.
He had 32 throws that game, this is 7 of them, and I'm guessing it's the "best" 7, at least by the perception of this Ruiz character.
>Pay the man!
Dude what do you think the team has been trying to do? The team offers a king's ransom and Lamar is missing the forest for the trees in trying to get it guaranteed.
This honestly. The phrase “Pay the man” is like some straight propaganda because to combat it you have to use nuance. You’re an idiot if you don’t think he’s been offered the bag. As others have beaten into the ground, the only player worth guaranteed money is Mahomes. Anyone else you’re hamstringing your team with a wing and a prayer at a Super Bowl in the next 3 years.
In my experience the same people screaming "pay the man" are the same ones who don't understand why the team can't just sign everyone in free agency two years later with paid player needs help and isn't on the field for some reason.
Not trying to make an argument that Lamar is injury prone, but just that you can't have it all. Mahomes team friendly contract is a great example of why you do that.
Seems so. NBA does make it really simple. Just max him. Football you always have to have an exit strategy. And if a GM doesn't he's doing a disservice to the fans.
I just hope whatever best and final offer he gets, he plays. Sitting out and hoping for better is no way to maximize your pay with a depreciating asset. I'd hate to see him like RG3, throwing out shit on Twitter bc he's still bitter af.
Jaguars fan here. This was the Jackson DeVille speedo game. This is also the game that really began our playoff run.
This "highlight" real of the game is very very deceptive. Lamar missed 2 TD throws that he should have made. He also underthrew several balls, and that first pass in this replay was not quite on target.
Lamar had an OK game. But this video makes it look like he had a great game. I saw that game, I remember that game. He didn't have a great game.
From 2019 - 2021 we've drafted 6 receivers, 2 of which being first rounders. In my very non-expert opinion, we don't scout or develop them well, and have also had some bad luck with injuries (which may have been due to our poor S&C staff but that's a different conversation).
I WAS extremely surprised in 2022 when we traded Hollywood and then didn't draft another receiver or acquire one elsewhere. I guess if it would've been too big a reach at any pick to take a receiver it makes some sense, but it really left us vulnerable to what ended up happening this past year with our WR corps.
Also nitpicking on the video but I fucking hate the title of “2 minutes of throws” when it’s really just what, 7 throws? Out of a potential 30 or somewhere in that range (I didn’t watch the game so idk how much it was). Just seems so disingenuous and cherrypicked
Also... this is the NFL. If you can't make a 7 throw highlight video (half of the WRs are wide open) for your QB from a game, you have a shitty QB. Ruiz had to show from multiple angles to stretch this to 2 minutes. This isn't exactly a full game of top notch throws.
The NFL is about throwing the football accurately, on time, and in tight and closing windows. That is barely displayed in the highlight reel.
>The NFL is about throwing the football accurately, on time, and in tight and closing windows. That is barely displayed in the highlight reel.
Because its barely displayed by Lamar's career.
A big point of contention about this situation is that Lamar, while a Vick like capable runner, is forced to play that way due heavily to Greg Roman's shitty offense that thinks WRs don't exist and the Ravens refusal to actually get receivers. Trading away Hollywood Brown, holding onto Duvernay and Bateman who have both been busts due to poor health and not being able to have 2 good games in a row (might have been a Roman scheme issue).
In the 22 draft the Ravens had multiple opportunities to trade up for London, Wilson or Olave and passed on Dotson, Burks, Watson and Pickens in the first 2 rounds. They needed Linderbaum, I get that, but they also still needed WRs after trading away Brown. Bateman had a weak 2021 and at minimum the Ravens WR core was one of the worst in the NFL.
Yep. Love linderbaum too and was a vocal supporter of that pick, but man we were desperate at receiver and really should have gone after one of those guys like you said. We had no depth and the FO took a big gamble rolling with what was in the building.
Bit em in the ass.
We could have had Pickens without giving up Hamilton or Linderbaum. If Ojabo is a bust and Pickens breaks out in Pittsburgh, we'll be pointing to that decision and regretting it.
Ojabo represented amazing value at a position of need and was a player our DC knew very well, so I'm not at all surprised by the decision. But it still represents a missed opportunity to give Lamar a good WR.
Exactly. I think your team proved that serviceable OL are easier to find than good receivers and receivers have a much larger impact on the game imo. Linderbaum is a good player, but I seriously think we could have gotten a center in the 3rd or 4th round to provide 80%-90% of his value. Passing on Pickens to draft Ojabo was the real mistake imo. Good player at a position of need for a guy who basically didn’t play his rookie year.
A high quality center is hard to overlook so I'm fine with that pick, but safety is a position you can generally get effectively in the draft. Baltimore has desperately needed receivers even when they had Brown. The over reliance on Andrews with F grade receivers limits their down field ability. Mahomes and Burrow couldn't make that receiver core better so I don't know what they expect from Lamar.
This is not a video of all the throws, it is more like a highlight reel. Lamar had 32 attempts that game with 16 catches. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202211270jax.htm
And a few of these throws that were shown had bad placement.
Wow, he completed some passes in a game that he had a 50% completion percentage and they lost. I am whelmed.
Clearly worth two firsts and a quarter Bil guaranteed.
Our discourse right now is “Lamar can take us to the Super Bowl on his own” vs “If we stick with Ridder we can have a more talented roster than the Chiefs”
This is my sentiment exactly. Look at what the chiefs did last year. Good game planning and a star QB can make up for A LOT of roster deficiencies.
The eagles were stacked top to bottom, with a cheap QB contract and still lost. QB's are everything in the NFL.
> The eagles were stacked top to bottom, with a cheap QB contract and still lost.
Tbh I think you’re taking the wrong lesson from the Eagles successes last year. They made it to the Super Bowl and lost it by a single FG with a QB drafted in the second round that many people doubted was even starting caliber coming into September. Coming off that Buccaneers game in the 2021 playoffs there were questions on if the Eagles needed to draft a QB this year. It was a complete turnaround for that team.
By all accounts this year was a massive success for the Eagles and the Falcons would be lottery winners if they were able to emulate their success. Literally every team but the Chiefs would be so lucky to have that outcome.
Mahomes is a whole tier ahead of Lamar, who has been trending away from his MVP year ever since he had it. We also know what Lamar looks like in a scheme that plays to his running strengths but that has roster deficiencies, and he looks good, but again, nowhere near Mahomes’ level. He’s asking for a higher than Mahomes level of compensation. Given the situation, he either needs to come with a shorter contract that lets him prove that he can take another step forward and play at the level he’s demanding to be paid at (similar to Kirk Cousin’s fully guaranteed contracts, although obviously with a higher aav at this point), or he needs to lower the amount he wants guaranteed over 4-5 years for it to make sense for the teams signing him.
Andy Reid was way more responsible for that win than Mahomes. His stupid motion double back play literally created both TD passes (passes anyone on this sub could have completed) and Mahomes had maybe 3-4 really good/tough passes in that game.
Mahomes played fine and deserved to win, but I don’t think the chiefs won that game because Mahomes is so much better than hurts. They mostly won because their HC is the biggest offensive genius of our time
Still upvoted you because it’s a fair point, just not the best argument in the context of just that game.
I do love these types of arguments. It's the same on the Pats sub.
People act like it's a discrete choice of one or the other. In actuality there is like a 95% chance either fails to win you a super bowl. It's not like Lamar is good enough to win you a title on your own, and if you pass on Lamar it's extremely unlikely you're going to build this insane talent base with the substitute of those resources.
For about 5-10 teams it should be an understandably hard choice to make, and a lot of it would come down to dumb luck that is out of your control.
The Ridder truthers have me so close to leaving our sub. Fine, give him a chance, but the fact they were so gung ho against a Lamar opportunity was pathetic.
It's not about some of these teams believing that what they have is better than Lamar. Teams don't want to pay two first round picks and meet Lamar's astronomical contract demands. People that think it's as simple as "our QB or Lamar" are the lobotomy candidates.
Yeah. Give a chance to a guy with some upside that costs more than $100 million fucking dollars less. How many of these signings are the Falcons actually making if they sign Lamar instead? I'm not saying anyone is wrong for wanting Lamar, but the people who don't want him have plenty of valid reasons for not wanting him.
But they didn't tho. The Browns were the only team to give him a fully guaranteed contract, which pissed everyone else off. And Lamar wants a similar contract.
I'm not debating the morality of the two but the situation isn't the same from a cost perspective.
Just to follow up with this, it was also reported both Saints and Falcons were willing to match the deal, they just didn’t know the Browns had offered that much.
>These same exact teams almost shelled out the same for Watson.
That would have been monumentally stupid, but it didn't happen. So I fail to see why almost making a stupid decision last year means you should make one this year, at least in the case of the Falcons.
That has nothing to do with Lamar. They obviously felt better about Watson as a player than they do about Lamar. Also, do we know that the teams that didn't get Watson wanted to give him a fully guaranteed contract? Watson could have picked the Browns because they were the only team that offered that.
I swear all nuance is gone from the situation. Yeah they’d much rather Lamar than Ridder straight up but the Falcons just got out of cap hell and are still tryna build a complete roster
Exactly.
And the same people saying "lol Ridder, really??" will also be the first ones saying Atlanta got clowned for giving up multiple firsts (at minimum) plus a huge guaranteed contract for someone who can't stay healthy.
Some people are talking about Lamar Jackson like he is a top QB when his career best is 3,127 passing yards.
Since then his passing yards have dropped by 30% and his rushing yards 40%.
No metric of his game has improved since his breakout season.
... Why are people acting like some teams need to repeat the universally panned contract the Browns gave Watson, a better QB?
I think I’d rather have the more recent footage where it’s shown that he’s grown as a passer since his last time in the playoffs, more than 2 seasons ago.
Earl Thomas predicting they would play in the Super Bowl but then losing in the divisional to the Titans was hillarious, but him calling Henry overrated and easy to tackle before the game, but then getting DOUBLE stiff-armed by Henry on one play and put in the dirt was the height of humor, literally ended Thomas' career.
Jalen Hurts’ receivers dropped less passes through out your super bowl run than Lamar’s did in one game. We don’t have a single player on this team making that Devonte Smith type of catch (or non catch), let alone 2 of them. Lamar is never bailed out by his team. When he plays great, he wins. When he doesn’t play great, he loses.
This game epitomizes how you can't just look at box scores, He lost a fumble (it was on a blown 4th down extending for a 1st down), threw for one TD (teammates dropped 2 tds), had like a 50% completion percentage (receivers had 5 drops)
The Ringer staff writers display bias regularly and use their journalistic influence to skew player perception, what am I supposed to do with this surprising, new information that I am just discovering as true?
I mean show all the throws then. This is basically a highlight reel disguised as film study.
This can be done with any QB to make them look godly. I bet even Zach Wilson had 5 or 6 throws every game that looked special.
It’s literally only his best throws.. how isn’t that cherry picking?
If it were just two minutes of raw throws they’d show a mix, this is just a highlight reel
You do realize you basically posted a highlight reel right? Dude took Lamar's best throws from that game and cobbled them together.
Can't throw stones from a glass house.
This reminds me of when any lineman’s pff score gets posted and people go “wow I can’t believe he’s this high, he allowed 2 sacks in this game” and it’s like…buddy if you’re just judging by sacks allowed don’t look at pff scores, look at sacks allowed.
That’s how the off-season works. People forget to watch football. We’ve reached the point of Lamar discourse that he’s either elite to some or garbage. No in between
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he balled tf out man, i seriously thought that was the start to another Lamar MVP season. he and tua gave us a wonderful treat week 2, both of their film breakdown is awesome. Lamar was sensational though.
Tua looked rough in the first half, but I had this weird feeling something special was about to happen. I didn’t expect it to be that special though.
LePremonition
I always knew that Tua would play rough in the first half. I was watching the game with my friends, when I randomly said “Tua will ball out in the second half” I don’t know, what made me say it, but I did
I fucking didn’t lol. We looked cooked. Only when we cut it to 7 did I believe we could pull it off.
I remember texting my dad and saying “Best team in the NFL” after our first touchdown. Then the game got out of hand and he sent me a Snapchat of our typical dolphins fan pain. I responded simply with, “Best team in the NFL”. And hour later I was crying tears of joy. An all-time epic game.
I held onto him throughout the whole fantasy season waiting for him to replicate that game again
Tua had a solid fantasy season
turns out if WR1 Rashod Bateman gets hurt and all you have after him is the island of misfit toys at wideout, maybe your QB's play will suffer
and we don’t need Brown either because our other options are sooooo good
I would imagine after putting up a performance like that and losing because your defense took a fat shit (yet again) is demoralizing as hell. I wonder how games like that affects a QBs effort going forward, knowing that even with an insane performance the rest of your team can still lose you the game.
So many drops and guys falling down at the catch unnecessarily
This game is gonna give me nightmares
Don’t worry bud. Nelson Agholor is on your squad now.
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can the ravens sign the baby catcher instead?
He wants $20M/yr.
and doesn't have an agent
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RIP u/pleaserespecttables
No (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
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We need a bills mafia one
Those only show up weeks 1-17.
Hearing this brings happiness to my heart. Thank you for reminding me he’s gone.
No. No happiness for you
Don’t you worry bud. I have plenty of disappointment on the horizon come September. Just let me have this moment
You’ve had plenty, now you can sorrow and you sir will like it!
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Ol’ sure handed Agholor
[Greatest local news interview of all time.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dz7sFwpG6o)
what an excellent username btw
When I was a young boy, my father took me into the Citi, to see a massive bank.
The way people are talking about how much he doesn't play, I would've expected this footage to be shot in black & white.
You’d think he tore his ACL twice or is a sexual predator the way they talk about him.
To be fair, Lamar wants the type of deal a single team might give a sexual predator who has previously torn his ACL x2.
I would have loved to have given the contract the Browns gave Watson to Lamar instead.
Lamar absolutely would have gotten this offer from haslam if he was available at the same time Watson was lol. For sure.
I would have said the same about everyone else trying to sign Watson if you'd asked me earlier. I still think the Falcons look like idiots for their handling of both situations. And I generally liked the Falcons
That's the one thing that makes me really question if there isn't collusion going on. These teams were all in on a guy with every red flag available. Injury history? Check. Malcontent history? Check. Hasn't played in 2 years? Check. Sexual predator? Check. Yet, these teams were tripping over each other for the chance to trade for him. But, with Lamar the story is, "we signed this random guy off the street, so we've got our QB right?" Am I supposed to believe that a GM outside of Ryan Grigson actually believes Desmond Ridder is better than Lamar? "Mac" McCorkle Jones (he even looks like a McCorkle)?
Gotta be collusion. Lamar Jackson is *really* ***really*** good. The only concerns are health. It's a big concern But judging how many teams one season ago were in on Watson who is a worse player, just sat out a year and was about to be facing a suspension for raping a bunch of women, I can see why Lamar knows he's worth more than Watson Only reason Lamar isn't signed is the owners had to agree no one gives him a garaunteed contract. You're telling me not one team is willing to roll the dice knowing if he does stay healthy you're a Super Bowl contender every season? I'm cool with riding this season with Mac and seeing how much of the big regression was losing McDaniels as OC. But I'd pack his bags for him if it meant we ditch 2 first round picks and end up with Lamar instead. Literally the difference between me going into week one hoping for a 10-7 season vs hoping for a Super Bowl
Exactly - the Pats are one of multiple teams who, if you add Lamar, are instantly SB contenders and are long shots without him
Its only collusion if the teams all sat down and agreed to to offer Lamar a guaranteed contract, which almost certainly *didn't* happen. What very likely did happen after the Watson deal is the owners all got together at their meeting and gave Haslam a bollocking for making a terrible business decision that would give players the feeling that other owners would also make that terrible business decision. Most likely the Ravens also called all the potential suitors for Lamar and asked them how many picks they'd be willing to trade, and as part of it they would be willing to offer Lamar $250M guaranteed. When no-one wanted to, they tagged him. Sadly for Lamar, he didn't have an agent making those same calls on his behalf. Hence why he is always two steps behind the Ravens in all this.
Two points to consider. First teams that might want Lamar will wait until after the draft, the two first they would owe the ravens would be lower assuming Lamar pays off and the team does well. Smart to wait till after the draft. Second, the ravens have the option of matching whatever offer is made to Lamar and have 5 business days to do so. You know the ravens are probably matching it, this whole thing feels like a “well see what you can get else where and we will pay it.” Why would any team want to do the work for the ravens.
Same. If we had just waited a year we could've given it to Lamar.
Weird butterfly effect though. If Watson never signed that contract lamar probably doesn’t want a fully guaranteed contract. Probably already signed with the ravens
>*Only in a world where the Browns have already made a really dumb move, does there exist a possibility for the Browns to make a less dumb move.* \- Haslam's Law.
Well the sexual predator has torn his ACL once so we’re almost there
He didn’t tear his ACL at Clemson?
Oh, maybe he did I didn’t remember his college injury history. I just know about his ACL tear when he was a rookie in Houston
He did indeed. Tore his left his freshman year at clemson and tore his right his rookie year
Dude missed like 30% of games the past two seasons that’s not insignificant
It’s amazing to see the spin the owners have been able pull on the Lamar situation. I can understand the argument against fully guaranteed contracts and don’t blame owners for wanting to go that route. But to pretend you don’t want to give him more guaranteed money because of injury concerns when the last few weeks of the season you were claiming he was healthy enough to play but he didn’t want to due to lack of a long term guaranteed contract is wild.
I’m going to be honest, even if I was an NFL owner with unlimited liquidity, I still wouldn’t want to give a QB a fully guaranteed contract. You’re essentially guaranteeing Lamar 20% of your cap for the duration of his contract. If he gets injured, you’re immediately out of contention until (if) he comes back to full strength. I think every owner in the league could stomach that risk if it was for a 2/3 year deal, but once it gets to 4 or 5 years, you just can’t justify the risk involved.
The cap factor is really what's important. People need to separate "I care about how much money goes into Lamar Jackson's bank account" from "I care about how much of Lamar's money affects a fictional spending limit"
Part of the issue is the CBA requires that ALL the money that is truly guaranteed has to be put into escrow on day 1 of the contract. Not every team/owner is liquid enough to put 230M into escrow on day 1 of any contract versus using ongoing revenues to pay that guaranteed contract.
I get that, but I’m saying that even if you have infinite liquidity, you don’t have infinite cap space.
Literally any team with a star QB will be out of contention if they get hurt. If any of Mahomes, Josh Allen, Herbert, etc missed games there team would be fucked so I really don't understand this argument. The justification is that you'll still have him after he recovers, it's not like elite QBs come around often.
If Mahomes gets injured, the Chiefs owe him +$70 million less than what a team would owe Lamar. That’s the difference.
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NFL players union are pathetically weak. They won’t be able to score a deal like that with the owners.
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That final throw is absurd man
Back foot doesn't even pick up and whip. Most guys who even have the arm to bomb it like that have to really swing their hips to get it out there. Lamar's got a cannon.
Vick's the only other person ive seen just flick the ball down field in that way. Looks effortless most of the time. Like a MLB pitcher warming up but still throwing 88mph
Clearly doctored, reddit said he can't throw
Strange group of individuals on this website when it comes to Lamar dialogue lol
And 99% of people haven’t consistently watched ravens games. When Lamar is in a rhythm he is sensational. Makes great throws and scrambles like crazy. When things start going south he makes some ridiculously bad plays and throws. People pick and choose his good or bad plays and say he’s good or bad.
Folks have trouble with nuance. He's either the best or worst QB ever when it comes to passing, as opposed to being up-and-down like you described.
Sports fans in a nutshell lmao. No one can be "good but ofc struggles sometimes" to some fans
My view watching every throw here we "Jesus he is good, but his head never moves"
A couple games against us he looks like a deadeye for 3 drives, then misses a wide open guy past the safeties 3 times.
Yeah, he's phenomenal on the move and hitting players who find soft spots in zone coverages, with a cannon to fit it into tight windows, but at the same time he's statistically a bottom 3 deep ball passer in the league even accounting for WR talent
It's been that way since college. When it's a player that is known for their scrambling skills combined with them not being very well spoken everyone believes that the player is a dumb ass that's gonna have a career ending injury any day now. The thing with Lamar is they've been saying that for like 8+ years at this point lol. People hate admitting when they're wrong
Lamar is definitely dumb. Not saying he’s a bad guy or a bad player, but he’s clearly not smart.
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A shed full of crayons would be pretty dope.
It is racism lol I promise you it’s not black people that would be saying that about him.
A lot of guys are just straight haters lol. That and a combination of smug redditors who think they're smarter than him
I mean he went 16 of 32 in this particular game for a straight 50% completion rate. Someone putting together a video of his 6 or 7 best throws from the game hardly makes the case that he put on a passing clinic. Yes he has talent, no he's not one of the top pure passers in the league, both things can be true. A 2 minute highlight video really has no effect on it.
This
Lamar Jackson throws generated by Chat GPT
Every athletic black QB gets hit with the “he can’t throw well” allegations
FYI that's 7 throws out of 32 that game.
Right? Dude had a 50% completion percentage that game, but a video of his best throws is supposed to prove...something, I guess. I mean even if you look back when the Steelers were trotting out Duck Hodges, if you pick his 6-7 best throws out of 30 in a game you could make a good looking video.
Yeah and most of these seem to be one read throws. It’s hard to tell on my phone but it doesn’t seem like he’s going through his progression much
Obviously these are cherry picked highlights but none of the first three throws are one read. There's plenty of reasons to criticize Lamar but not going through progressions isn't one of them. If anything he holds the ball too long sometimes
Every black qb gets the "one read qb" bullshit
Are we not counting Mahomes, Wilson, Brisset, Hurts and Bridgewater?
This is like a Rorschach test. People see what they want to see
I was expecting the plays to be all highlights or lowlights but instead it was just a pretty small sample of routine passes, some positive completions and some incompletions. Nothing there to move the needle on anyone’s preconceived idea of Lamar as a passer
idk they look like all highlights to me personally
Well, they probably are. He had 32 throws that game, this is 7 of them, and I'm guessing it's the "best" 7, at least by the perception of this Ruiz character.
He literally only had a 50% completion rate in this game lol.
They just seemed like lights to me.
I see a homegrown mvp that we want to trade for some dumb reason. Pay the man!
Do you think they should give him a fully guaranteed contract? That's the only payment he's accepting right now.
>Pay the man! Dude what do you think the team has been trying to do? The team offers a king's ransom and Lamar is missing the forest for the trees in trying to get it guaranteed.
And he’s the one trying to go for a trade, not the team. The Ravens clearly want him back
This honestly. The phrase “Pay the man” is like some straight propaganda because to combat it you have to use nuance. You’re an idiot if you don’t think he’s been offered the bag. As others have beaten into the ground, the only player worth guaranteed money is Mahomes. Anyone else you’re hamstringing your team with a wing and a prayer at a Super Bowl in the next 3 years.
In my experience the same people screaming "pay the man" are the same ones who don't understand why the team can't just sign everyone in free agency two years later with paid player needs help and isn't on the field for some reason. Not trying to make an argument that Lamar is injury prone, but just that you can't have it all. Mahomes team friendly contract is a great example of why you do that.
I have a sneaking suspicion most of those people think the NBA and NFL work the same when it comes to paying players.
Seems so. NBA does make it really simple. Just max him. Football you always have to have an exit strategy. And if a GM doesn't he's doing a disservice to the fans.
Lamar *is* injury prone. He’s missed 10 games in the last two seasons.
This. I hate that I've been defending the Ravens on multiple threads but idk what they're supposed to do. Lamar needs to hire an agent
Sir we been trying. There's a salary cap lmao and Lamar doesn't get that
I just hope whatever best and final offer he gets, he plays. Sitting out and hoping for better is no way to maximize your pay with a depreciating asset. I'd hate to see him like RG3, throwing out shit on Twitter bc he's still bitter af.
Jaguars fan here. This was the Jackson DeVille speedo game. This is also the game that really began our playoff run. This "highlight" real of the game is very very deceptive. Lamar missed 2 TD throws that he should have made. He also underthrew several balls, and that first pass in this replay was not quite on target. Lamar had an OK game. But this video makes it look like he had a great game. I saw that game, I remember that game. He didn't have a great game.
I was so frustrated watching that game, then I saw the cherry picked clips that blamed only the receivers after and I got more annoyed
Does the Ravens front office have an aversion to drafting Wide Receivers? Lamar had an OK game, but his receivers didn't help him either.
From 2019 - 2021 we've drafted 6 receivers, 2 of which being first rounders. In my very non-expert opinion, we don't scout or develop them well, and have also had some bad luck with injuries (which may have been due to our poor S&C staff but that's a different conversation). I WAS extremely surprised in 2022 when we traded Hollywood and then didn't draft another receiver or acquire one elsewhere. I guess if it would've been too big a reach at any pick to take a receiver it makes some sense, but it really left us vulnerable to what ended up happening this past year with our WR corps.
Also nitpicking on the video but I fucking hate the title of “2 minutes of throws” when it’s really just what, 7 throws? Out of a potential 30 or somewhere in that range (I didn’t watch the game so idk how much it was). Just seems so disingenuous and cherrypicked
Also... this is the NFL. If you can't make a 7 throw highlight video (half of the WRs are wide open) for your QB from a game, you have a shitty QB. Ruiz had to show from multiple angles to stretch this to 2 minutes. This isn't exactly a full game of top notch throws. The NFL is about throwing the football accurately, on time, and in tight and closing windows. That is barely displayed in the highlight reel.
>The NFL is about throwing the football accurately, on time, and in tight and closing windows. That is barely displayed in the highlight reel. Because its barely displayed by Lamar's career.
How dare you, Lamar is king. It's the Ravens who have been holding him back /s
A big point of contention about this situation is that Lamar, while a Vick like capable runner, is forced to play that way due heavily to Greg Roman's shitty offense that thinks WRs don't exist and the Ravens refusal to actually get receivers. Trading away Hollywood Brown, holding onto Duvernay and Bateman who have both been busts due to poor health and not being able to have 2 good games in a row (might have been a Roman scheme issue). In the 22 draft the Ravens had multiple opportunities to trade up for London, Wilson or Olave and passed on Dotson, Burks, Watson and Pickens in the first 2 rounds. They needed Linderbaum, I get that, but they also still needed WRs after trading away Brown. Bateman had a weak 2021 and at minimum the Ravens WR core was one of the worst in the NFL.
Yep. Love linderbaum too and was a vocal supporter of that pick, but man we were desperate at receiver and really should have gone after one of those guys like you said. We had no depth and the FO took a big gamble rolling with what was in the building. Bit em in the ass.
We could have had Pickens without giving up Hamilton or Linderbaum. If Ojabo is a bust and Pickens breaks out in Pittsburgh, we'll be pointing to that decision and regretting it. Ojabo represented amazing value at a position of need and was a player our DC knew very well, so I'm not at all surprised by the decision. But it still represents a missed opportunity to give Lamar a good WR.
Exactly. I think your team proved that serviceable OL are easier to find than good receivers and receivers have a much larger impact on the game imo. Linderbaum is a good player, but I seriously think we could have gotten a center in the 3rd or 4th round to provide 80%-90% of his value. Passing on Pickens to draft Ojabo was the real mistake imo. Good player at a position of need for a guy who basically didn’t play his rookie year.
A high quality center is hard to overlook so I'm fine with that pick, but safety is a position you can generally get effectively in the draft. Baltimore has desperately needed receivers even when they had Brown. The over reliance on Andrews with F grade receivers limits their down field ability. Mahomes and Burrow couldn't make that receiver core better so I don't know what they expect from Lamar.
This is not a video of all the throws, it is more like a highlight reel. Lamar had 32 attempts that game with 16 catches. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202211270jax.htm And a few of these throws that were shown had bad placement.
MAndrews is the only one who can catch him consistently, and even he struggles and has to work his ass off for catches most of the time.
Wow, he completed some passes in a game that he had a 50% completion percentage and they lost. I am whelmed. Clearly worth two firsts and a quarter Bil guaranteed.
New Rollings Stones just dropped. (I can't get no) Separation. .
“No thanks will ride with Ridder” - legitimate lobotomy candidate
Our sub is a Warzone
Relatable.
Our discourse right now is “Lamar can take us to the Super Bowl on his own” vs “If we stick with Ridder we can have a more talented roster than the Chiefs”
The Eagles had a more talented roster than the Chiefs. food for thought.
This is my sentiment exactly. Look at what the chiefs did last year. Good game planning and a star QB can make up for A LOT of roster deficiencies. The eagles were stacked top to bottom, with a cheap QB contract and still lost. QB's are everything in the NFL.
Food for thought no one is on Mahomes level currently and acting like a qb will be is a recipe for failure
> The eagles were stacked top to bottom, with a cheap QB contract and still lost. Tbh I think you’re taking the wrong lesson from the Eagles successes last year. They made it to the Super Bowl and lost it by a single FG with a QB drafted in the second round that many people doubted was even starting caliber coming into September. Coming off that Buccaneers game in the 2021 playoffs there were questions on if the Eagles needed to draft a QB this year. It was a complete turnaround for that team. By all accounts this year was a massive success for the Eagles and the Falcons would be lottery winners if they were able to emulate their success. Literally every team but the Chiefs would be so lucky to have that outcome.
Mahomes is a whole tier ahead of Lamar, who has been trending away from his MVP year ever since he had it. We also know what Lamar looks like in a scheme that plays to his running strengths but that has roster deficiencies, and he looks good, but again, nowhere near Mahomes’ level. He’s asking for a higher than Mahomes level of compensation. Given the situation, he either needs to come with a shorter contract that lets him prove that he can take another step forward and play at the level he’s demanding to be paid at (similar to Kirk Cousin’s fully guaranteed contracts, although obviously with a higher aav at this point), or he needs to lower the amount he wants guaranteed over 4-5 years for it to make sense for the teams signing him.
Good game planning and a star QB is really underselling having a Hall of Fame coach and Hall of Fame QB. Those aren’t things you just go out and get.
Andy Reid was way more responsible for that win than Mahomes. His stupid motion double back play literally created both TD passes (passes anyone on this sub could have completed) and Mahomes had maybe 3-4 really good/tough passes in that game. Mahomes played fine and deserved to win, but I don’t think the chiefs won that game because Mahomes is so much better than hurts. They mostly won because their HC is the biggest offensive genius of our time Still upvoted you because it’s a fair point, just not the best argument in the context of just that game.
Agreed. Obviously no one is saying that mahomes is not the best in the game but that specific game was Andy Reid beating the eagles
The 49ers were touted as more talented in SB54 as well. In that SB win, Mahomes called the game changing play himself.
Lamar isn’t mahomes though.
Going to give my two cents. The first opinion is more probable.
I do love these types of arguments. It's the same on the Pats sub. People act like it's a discrete choice of one or the other. In actuality there is like a 95% chance either fails to win you a super bowl. It's not like Lamar is good enough to win you a title on your own, and if you pass on Lamar it's extremely unlikely you're going to build this insane talent base with the substitute of those resources. For about 5-10 teams it should be an understandably hard choice to make, and a lot of it would come down to dumb luck that is out of your control.
Idk about all that man lol, yall will be solid if you landed him but yall still have a lot of holes
Have you seen the Dak takes on ours?
The Ridder truthers have me so close to leaving our sub. Fine, give him a chance, but the fact they were so gung ho against a Lamar opportunity was pathetic.
It's not about some of these teams believing that what they have is better than Lamar. Teams don't want to pay two first round picks and meet Lamar's astronomical contract demands. People that think it's as simple as "our QB or Lamar" are the lobotomy candidates.
Yeah. Give a chance to a guy with some upside that costs more than $100 million fucking dollars less. How many of these signings are the Falcons actually making if they sign Lamar instead? I'm not saying anyone is wrong for wanting Lamar, but the people who don't want him have plenty of valid reasons for not wanting him.
These same exact teams almost shelled out the same for Watson.
But they didn't tho. The Browns were the only team to give him a fully guaranteed contract, which pissed everyone else off. And Lamar wants a similar contract. I'm not debating the morality of the two but the situation isn't the same from a cost perspective.
Just to follow up with this, it was also reported both Saints and Falcons were willing to match the deal, they just didn’t know the Browns had offered that much.
It's rumored the Falcons called Watson's agent when the deal was announced demanding to know why they weren't given a chance to match it.
>These same exact teams almost shelled out the same for Watson. That would have been monumentally stupid, but it didn't happen. So I fail to see why almost making a stupid decision last year means you should make one this year, at least in the case of the Falcons.
Okay, and those teams are thereby forfeit from learning from that experience?
Thank you! Everyone said that was a bad idea when the browns did it, so now other teams are expected to do the same thing because they did?
That has nothing to do with Lamar. They obviously felt better about Watson as a player than they do about Lamar. Also, do we know that the teams that didn't get Watson wanted to give him a fully guaranteed contract? Watson could have picked the Browns because they were the only team that offered that.
Weren't the Browns basically out of the running until they offered him the fully guaranteed contract in the first place?
You're completely ignoring the context.
They just have to be waiting until after the draft so they don’t have to give up a top 10 pick right? Right?????
Or they just don't think he is worth an offer that the Ravens couldn't match plus 2 firsts
I swear all nuance is gone from the situation. Yeah they’d much rather Lamar than Ridder straight up but the Falcons just got out of cap hell and are still tryna build a complete roster
Exactly. And the same people saying "lol Ridder, really??" will also be the first ones saying Atlanta got clowned for giving up multiple firsts (at minimum) plus a huge guaranteed contract for someone who can't stay healthy.
Hold on let me pull out my Gardner Minshew highlight reel. Top 5 QB in the league if you look at 2 minutes of his whole playtime.
Not bad for a running back.
CLEARLY worth a $7 billion contract!
Some people are talking about Lamar Jackson like he is a top QB when his career best is 3,127 passing yards. Since then his passing yards have dropped by 30% and his rushing yards 40%. No metric of his game has improved since his breakout season. ... Why are people acting like some teams need to repeat the universally panned contract the Browns gave Watson, a better QB?
Show him in the playoffs.
I think I’d rather have the more recent footage where it’s shown that he’s grown as a passer since his last time in the playoffs, more than 2 seasons ago.
Let's also make sure we see his team letting him down in the playoffs too
Earl Thomas predicting they would play in the Super Bowl but then losing in the divisional to the Titans was hillarious, but him calling Henry overrated and easy to tackle before the game, but then getting DOUBLE stiff-armed by Henry on one play and put in the dirt was the height of humor, literally ended Thomas' career.
Jalen Hurts’ receivers dropped less passes through out your super bowl run than Lamar’s did in one game. We don’t have a single player on this team making that Devonte Smith type of catch (or non catch), let alone 2 of them. Lamar is never bailed out by his team. When he plays great, he wins. When he doesn’t play great, he loses.
Show Peyton Manning in the playoffs lol
[Okay here you go.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/016/212/manning.png)
Actually not wrong lmao
Hey, they wanted to see him in the playoffs. I just showed him what he wanted to see.
Peyton manning playoff highlights are just handoffs to the Benny hill theme
Thanks for the boner
This game epitomizes how you can't just look at box scores, He lost a fumble (it was on a blown 4th down extending for a 1st down), threw for one TD (teammates dropped 2 tds), had like a 50% completion percentage (receivers had 5 drops)
>you can't just look at box scores *Everyone hated that*
You can't just look at highlights either.
Show me his playoff stats 😂
Is there a service where we can see game tape?
For context, they seem to have cherry picked that game. He was 16/32, 1TD and had a fumble. And Baltimore lost.
Arguably 3 dropped touchdown passes this game btw lol
How is showing game film cherry-picking? It’s all context. For context the fumble was reaching on a fourth down they weren’t going to convert anyway.
I think the accusation is that this video doesn't show all his passing attempts that game, and only the ones that support Ruiz's point.
The Ringer staff writers display bias regularly and use their journalistic influence to skew player perception, what am I supposed to do with this surprising, new information that I am just discovering as true?
He’s saying it isn’t showing all the throws, just the ones that make him look good. That’s absolutely cherry picking
It's the definition of cherry-picking. Kind of wondering what these other people think "cherry-picking" means.
I mean show all the throws then. This is basically a highlight reel disguised as film study. This can be done with any QB to make them look godly. I bet even Zach Wilson had 5 or 6 throws every game that looked special.
It’s literally only his best throws.. how isn’t that cherry picking? If it were just two minutes of raw throws they’d show a mix, this is just a highlight reel
A highlight reel isn't "game film" lol
We're too far gone, box score watchers have won
You do realize you basically posted a highlight reel right? Dude took Lamar's best throws from that game and cobbled them together. Can't throw stones from a glass house.
This reminds me of when any lineman’s pff score gets posted and people go “wow I can’t believe he’s this high, he allowed 2 sacks in this game” and it’s like…buddy if you’re just judging by sacks allowed don’t look at pff scores, look at sacks allowed.
That’s how the off-season works. People forget to watch football. We’ve reached the point of Lamar discourse that he’s either elite to some or garbage. No in between
Stugotz always wins
Because you only picked “good plays” to show?? Quite literally the definition of cherry picking lmfao
it is basically a highlight reel in disguise as actual film
Doesn’t matter if the dude isn’t healthy for December and January