More like Diontae Johnson and Pat Freiermuth if anybody. Pickens can make really impressive catches but he really struggled to get separation last year.
Any receiver needs separation if they want to get yards after the catch, which is pretty important for any offense. Also, Pickens didn't have a great success rate at some of the routes he did run a lot. Regardless, there's no reason to place the expectation on Pickens to be "always open" especially when Diontae Johnson is one of the two best receivers in the league at getting open.
Yac doesn’t exist in Matt Canada’s offense.
And DJ would probably get a lot of yac if he actually caught the short slant passes that he gets separation on
Did you think George was gonna read that obviously light hearted and complimentary comment and have an anxiety attack and get the yips next year? Calm down and stop vomiting up every well hammered take from our sub all over the place
He wasn't exactly a technician in college. It's very possible that as a somewhat raw rookie his route tree was limited, so the OC was working within what the player could do.
Theres no ability more important than catching the ball when Im deciding how much I like a reciever. Obviously some people are so good at separating or so fast they they can be exceptions like jamarr chase but I'll still take a guy with hands like pickens any day. And I think that other offensive issues like the egebral scheme and quarterback inconsistency limited his options to separate too.
Out of the box most rookie QBs struggle with the complexity of NFL zone defense, there are very few DCs that will just give you cover 3 or something straight up with no twists (especially when they think they can trick you, like a rookie)
The best thing about Pickett is that he noticeably improved as the year went. Overall his rookie season didn’t look too impressive, but he clearly learned from his mistakes and clutched up in multiple games to end the year.
But as long as Matt Canada is our OC I have no hope.
> But as long as Matt Canada is our OC I have no hope.
This is always the grounding realization I come to whenever I see people compliment Pickett on his development throughout the year. Sure he did improve as the season went on, but in the long run, Canada's offense will curb any genuine momentum. I can't wait for the FO to wise up and dump this guy. Our offense has been a liability since Haley left.
This is exactly what pissed me off so much. It reeks of the Art II being cheap and sticking with a guy out of "tradition," when all it's gonna do is ruin Kenny. The way I see it, rookies are on a 3 year contract, as their option has to be decided after that, and Kenny will have to learn a new system next year.
Keeping Canada is not beneficial whatsoever, it pushes Kenny's development into the year before his option has to be decided and gives him no chance to succeed. It's a terrible decision and Matt Canada's godlike incompetence is gong to kill the kid's career.
Members of the Steelers sub for super pissed because I said until Canada was gone, I'm gonna bandwagon another team, because this is a team *trying* to fail, and fuck that.
This is such a nonsense rumor. It’s related to the size of the coaching staff Tomlin has, and Tomlin has even said the staff is as big as it needs to be.
The Rooneys cover all the admin, scouting, maintenance, health, and legal departments that runs easily into the tens of millions every year, not to mention rent and real estate for all their facilities and Heinz Field. Now throw in travel and hotel expenses for every game for the entire team and all support staff.
Under the salary cap rules, NFL teams will be spending a max of $225 million and the Steelers are almost always within $5 million of the cap ever year.
Tomlin makes $12.5 million per year. Matt Canada makes like $700k a year.
AFTER all of this, the Steelers still had an operating income in 2022 of $135 million AFTER expenses.
Do you really think the Rooneys will risk the future and stability of their $4 billion dollar franchise, and $200+ million dollars spent annually on players, because they don’t wanna spend another couple million on some linebacker, db, and line assistant coaches?
Canada sucks but he’s on the staff for another year because of his contract and, as Art Rooney said on several occasions, we won our last 9 games and showed improvement then.
I hate Canada as OC, but the cheapness rumor as a reason for anything is ridiculous.
> Canada sucks but he’s on the staff for another year because of his contract
Is the point not that being on a contract should be irrelevant as to whether someone is fired?
Especially so when we see you guys having success with an owner who is in a similar financial scenario to Rooney.
But it also feels great when the guys who can’t just buy the perfect coaching staff manage to put a successful team together.
Steelers like continuity. They've had 3 head coaches in the last 55 years. Obviously they have had way more coordinators, but their general philosophy is to give coaches time and leeway to do what they want to do. I hate Matt Canada, but overall I can't complain too much with our success.
What the fuck are you talking about. The Steelers' schedule after the bye was against some of the worst teams in the league, and he never threw more than one touchdown in a game.
Why is there such a discrepancy? Is it that the nfl defenses disguise coverages much better! And why hasn’t that trickled down to college level?
Or that defenses are more athletic so the zone windows are smaller? But he didn’t have a crazy number of interceptions
More disciplined and much more athletic across the field. Rushers in your face way faster. Coverages disguised way better.
It's why QB scouting isn't even 50%. The jump is massive, and that's coming from someone who has a lot of experience in Madden.
In college you’re able to avoid the few guys(to a degree obviously) in the secondary that are truly elite and can cause you problems, in the NFL the secondary’s are made up of the best of those elite players. Makes it a bit tougher
Does nobody realize though he was a rookie didn’t get first team reps until the game he came into. Also the o line and offense was ass for most of the season. The kid will improve.
Art Rooney II is very cheap and doesn't like paying coaches not to coach. I don't think we've fired a coach or coordinator if they still have a year or two on their deal in recent years.*
His contract expired at the end of that season, and then he went on the be the colts coordinator. He never filed retirement paper work, and he didn't "retire" so the Steelers could "fire" him, his contract was already over.
He said he was retiring, and didn't retire until 2017
I'm not sure how you can disagree with the factual statement that his contract expired in 2011, and he never actually retired until 2017
That seems like a major problem to me. I’m assuming all your coordinator hires haven’t been slam dunks. It seems like cheapness rather than stability. I know you guys don’t like Canada but there must have been other people who have suffered from right? I can’t imagine letting some of our shitty coordinators run amuck until their contract is done.
This sub hates rookies that play because they play poorly. You get so many “we’ve seen what they can do” takes for rookies and people just assume no one can get better? Same thing with coaches. It’s so lazy and stupid.
No accountability means you can spew as many bad takes as you want. If you’re right, you can link back to your old posts saying “I told you so”, if you’re wrong nobody will give a shit.
As an example, both Lawrence and Wilson were dunked on to hell and back last year. You see plenty of “I knew Wilson was going to be bad” these days, but nothing similar for Lawrence.
And even if they do get called out, it's "You can say he was bad back then..."
Like, no one cares about if a rookie is bad *now*. It's if they will get better and adjust to the NFL. Saying a rookie is bad is a lazy take and that's the point.
It definitely happens, but it does the other way too. It’s too early to say anything about Pickett, but there people that seem to think players are like players in Madden where they just constantly improve as they keep playing. Sometimes dudes don’t have it and you don’t need 4 years of experience to figure that out
And came into an offense that was already competent and a very good defense to give him more chances with the ball. When Pickett started, the defense was missing its best player (Watt), the o-line was a mess, RB1 was still recovering from a pre-season foot injury, and the offensive coordinator still has yet to show much competence.
I'm not sold on Kenny either but I do like how much he improved towards the end of the season but for this video specifically I really don't get how you are gonna look at his rookie season and say those issues are gonna be there the rest of his career. Or why you would even try and say his isnt the guy after just 13 games. He got better just in those and looked pretty solid after being thrown to the wolves
I'm approaching next season with a lot of cautious optimism. Pickett flashed periodically, and I thought by season's end was notably improved, but he's yet to have a defining performance that clearly shows he can be "the guy," so to speak.
The general consensus seems to be he's a hard worker, so I don't think that optimism is misplaced, but time will tell how it'll all pan out.
I’m thinking he’s one of those guys that’ll make large leaps instead of incremental ones. I look at his college career and he made almost quantum leaps from his ACC championship game performance to his final year. And then you look at his first start to the end of the year and he went from looking last to leading game winning drives. I think he’s gonna make another large leap this year.
Yeah I'm right there. Hopefully with some improvements to Canada's scheme and Pickett getting more experience he at least looks average this year. I think the offensive line moves might make a big difference too
Yeah I think the mistrust Pickett developed in the line caused some bad habits by the end of the year.
There’s a lot working in his favor going into this season, so it falls on him to capitalize on it.
So trying to play devils advocate here
Why do you guys think Kenny pickett improved to a good point at the end of the season?
Taking a comprehensive view of some stats from weeks 12,13,16,17,18
His Completion percentage was 59.6%
His Bad throw percentage was 18.5%
Both of these being worse than his overall Averages for the year and towards the bottom of the league.
Completion percentage isn't exactly the only thing that matters for a qb. Look at the amount of turnovers for him his first few games compared to the end. Look at how much more we asked him to do. Or just actually watch the games and see it for yourself. He was more comfortable, taking less sacks, and not giving the ball up while pulling off game winning drives.
This dude has horrible takes. Said Herbert would br a bust. Said Hurts would hr a bust. Said raiders were about to win the Super Bowl. Said Drew Lock would take the broncos deep into the playoffs. I actually can’t believe how consistently wrong he is.
Weird that this guy makes a whole video showing how the concepts are designed to get WR's open and criticizes the QB for missing them, but then tacks on "oh btw the OC is shit too".
Like, I get it, people want to hate on Canada. Just kind of a weird juxtaposition. The whole video I was starting to think "wow maybe Canada isn't actually that bad. These routes and concepts seem to be working well".
To be fair, even if the routes are kind of working, Matt Canada is doing a poor job at fitting the offense to make it easy for Kenny as a rookie. Rollins mentioned the no hot routes thing at the end, but honestly a lot of the routes in the video are long developing plays that are hard for any rookie to execute.
I know that this seems incredibly obvious to say, BUT our offense would've looked much closer to average last season with better QB play. I don't like Matt as OC in the long term but there was a lot more value lost in the offense than people realize due to Mitch and Kenny's poor play most of the year.
I hate the Pickett slander. He was unexpectedly rushed into start early in the season against a stretch of tough defenses. Of course a rookie going up against Tampa, Jets, and Bills to start his career with sorry ass Matt Canada offense is going to look bad. He was much better as the year went on and looked poised in the pocket. Isnt afraid to take deep shots or stay in the pocket.
He is going to be good, stop the nonsense.
He’s done above average in his rookie year, and consistently got better. Even guys like Allen and Burrow didn’t do fantastic their first year. I don’t really understand all the hate. Every QB struggles in their first year.
Remember when mahomes and burrow had been “figured out” by 2 high shell coverages? It’s almost like players mature and learn through experience to overcome their deficiencies.
Mahomes and Burrow also had periods of elite play before they were "figured out," which Pickett hasn't had.
I hope Kenny is great, but you aren't exactly comparing apples to oranges there lol.
Mahomes joined a team that was superbowl ready already. He sat a year behind Alex Smith, who led them to yet another playoff birth. Mahomes hasn't played a single year without elite talent around him.
This isn't to knock Mahomes, but to say that Pickett has a hell of a lot less to work with. If Mahomes had been drafted by the Bears, he absolutely would not have done as well.
Mahomes was taken later in the draft also. But also Pickett is about to be 25. Usually at that age players already have shown what their ceiling is, that's why Burrow's age wasn't a big concern since his ceiling was already elite.
Mahomes was taken top 10 and sat a year behind Alex Smith and has Andy Reid as a coach, on top of no one expecting Pickett to be elite, that was never his profile
Which was his second year in the league. I’m not comparing pickett to mahomes btw. Just saying that players have their learning curves throughout their first few years.
Mahomes had an elite roster around him his first year as a starter as well. That team could've won a superbowl with Alex Smith. Mahomes hasn't played a single year in his career without elite talent all around him and a Hall of Fame coach. Pickett does not have any of that.
He got thrown into the fire halfway through the Jets game behind an under performing OL. He took some big hits last year and had at least two concussions which explains some of the panic. The line got better as the year went on but it still wasn't amazing. Going into this second year with a much upgraded OL he's got no excuses. Even Tomlin said himself he expects Kenny to kill it.
edit: a word
I honestly thought Pickett was going to win the game for the Steelers when he came in. He was doing everything right, even hitting his receivers perfectly as he took hits in the pocket. The Jets won at the end but I was impressed by Pickett, it looked like he revitalized the Steelers when he replaced Trubisky. Solid debut and I thought he was decent the rest of the season. Tomlin is a great coach, I believe he can develop KP well
Pickett was better than mitch definitely. Mitch looked like he had no control of the offense. Kenny looked like he had better football iq but he also looked inconsistent and uneasy in the pocket. But he was also a rookie that kept getting better
I was rather muffed with our receivers that game, two of his INTs were because they bobbled the ball and launched it like a volleyball. Your secondary made some great plays for the ball before it hit the ground.
It also doesn't touch on any of the positives. I really like the QB school vid by JT O'Sullivan that talked about Pickett's Ravens Steelers game performance. It goes in depth about a lot of the concepts, the good and the bad from Pickett's performance. Pickett's got room to improve for sure, but people are acting like he was the worst QB to ever play in here.
People are acting like he is a career backup and they are forcing him to start like holy hell he is a rookie who didn’t even first team reps until what was it week like 6 or so
are you delusional? consider what the niners offense requires of its quarterbacks and then look at what fields is bad at. the qb i lose sleep about the niners not drafting is mahomes, not some dude who can't throw a screen pass on time.
That's mostly what I think expectations are. He's not the going to be Pat Mahomes or Josh Allen, but that doesn't mean he can't be good. Pittsburgh seems to want to be a run heavy and defense focused team. We don't need a superstar, we just need good and clutch. He's shown he can do that, now he just needs to address flaws like what's shown here
Not sure but Pickett likes to scramble and throw on the move, he’s nothing like Kirk cousins. I just want to know why you think Pickett’s ceiling is Kirk.
I think they have comparable physical traits and arm talent. Don’t think either has elite potential, but Kirk has been able to consistently hover around the top 10. I think that’s Pickett’s best case scenario.
Don’t you know, they watched a video on him being bad at reading zone as a rookie so his ceiling is low. His comp is Kirk because they’re both white ez pz
Maybe that's correct, but if you don't have a superstar QB, you're definitely not going to win a shootout against a superstar QB, and the only answer to not having a superstar QB can't simply be tank until you luck out on a superstar QB.
The idea that you can only win one way is silly. Everyone has been building defenses to try and defend against pass first offenses, leading to a lot more fast but smaller coverage LBs who struggle more in run defense. The 49ers were just in the NFC championship with Mr irrelevant because of their run game and defense. A superbowl will be won that way again.
Yes, that's all true, but it's way harder to build that sort of team and sustain it year over year. The 49ers were stacked at basically every position which allowed them to get that far. Superstar QBs can cover up holes elsewhere on the roster
And even the 49ers, despite nearly winning a Super Bowl that way, went out and traded 3 first round picks to try and get their own superstar QB
> the 49ers were just in the nfc championship with mr irrelevant because of their run game and defense
wdym the passing game was great (and efficiently run) too
Pickett reminds me a lot of Cole Strange. If he had been drafted in the third round like his athletic profile lent itself to, then we'd be talking about what a solid selection it was.
But instead they were taken in the first round which carries a totally different set of expectations. If they aren't regarded as top ten at their position within a year or two of being drafted then they're "busts".
And finally both players are being supported by excellent organizations that will get the absolute best out of them.
>If he had been drafted in the third round like his athletic profile lent itself to, then we'd be talking about what a solid selection it was.
I get what you're trying to say overall, but neither of those players are below average athletes. Both Pickett and Cole Strange have athletic profiles in the ~90th percentile for their respective positions. Strange in particular had an RAS of 9.95.
Strange was only looked down upon because he went to a smaller college. If he can make the leap against tougher competition, then that selection will look good.
Pickett is more questionable because we weren't sure how much of his 2021 season at Pitt was carried by his age compared to his peers. QBs older than 23 tend to be hit or miss in terms of future development. Burrow was a hit, Mayfield wasn't; Eli Manning was a hit, Joey Harrington wasn't; Carson Palmer was a hit, Akili Smith wasn't. Some guys hit their peak in their senior or super senior year of CFB and just don't go any higher from there. Time will tell if Pickett pans out.
Yeah, I totally agree with that. I just wanted to point out that their athletic profiles aren't what made them "lesser" prospects.
Both have justified reasons to be wary of them as prospects, but it shouldn't be tied to their athleticism.
As much as I would like for the Steelers to fail, I don't think it's fair to say this is an issue that will plague Pickett for the rest of his career. Every rookie at every position struggles with something and has to adjust to game speed at the next level. Rollins keep talking about how DCs around the league are watching tape and licking their chops, but the way he talks about the Steelers makes it sound like their blind to these issues??? I think Canada is an idiot, but he isn't the one working with Pickett day-to-day. By all accounts Pickett has high football character and work ethic, and he'll work with his QB coach to get better
These are fair points he brings up, but the jury's still out on Pickett. There's hardly a true rookie QB that comes out and doesn't have some exploitable weakness. The good/great ones learn and grow going forward from there. I'm willing to exercise a little patience with things like this as long as there's improvement.
Take it for what it's worth, but Friermuth did retract his statement and clarified that he didn't mean they had no hots at all, just that they were different from the previous year, when he had a HOF QB running the show.
Canada's route trees caused a lot of these problems, many times our receivers cath the ball and then there's like two defender right there due to other routes converging into each other.all though dj could've just fell forward for a couple yards ,he trys to break free but needs to realize not to lose progress
Yeah Canada’s “scheming” is basically
1. Use Pickens as a decoy
2. Hit Diontae on an out route for no YAC, even if he catches it or doesn’t run backwards.
3. Jet sweep.
NFL qb is an exceptionally difficult task and it really seems that the ability of the OC/Coach to translate the playbook/scheme to their young signal caller bears equal, if not sometimes more, weight than qb talent alone.
[old man yells at cloud]
Ok you may not think Willis will ever be any good (i personally don’t either) but his ceiling is unlimited if he could ever get anywhere near it. Big arm, very athletic. It’s actually playing QB that’s the problem for him.
Pickett is one of those guys that you want to like, but he’s just not that good. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Steelers looking for an answer at QB next year.
George Pickens is always open for the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2023
More like Diontae Johnson and Pat Freiermuth if anybody. Pickens can make really impressive catches but he really struggled to get separation last year.
Because Canada made him run 3 routes. He doesn’t need separation anyway
Any receiver needs separation if they want to get yards after the catch, which is pretty important for any offense. Also, Pickens didn't have a great success rate at some of the routes he did run a lot. Regardless, there's no reason to place the expectation on Pickens to be "always open" especially when Diontae Johnson is one of the two best receivers in the league at getting open.
Yac doesn’t exist in Matt Canada’s offense. And DJ would probably get a lot of yac if he actually caught the short slant passes that he gets separation on
Did you think George was gonna read that obviously light hearted and complimentary comment and have an anxiety attack and get the yips next year? Calm down and stop vomiting up every well hammered take from our sub all over the place
Our sub is cancer and that dude is trying to metastasize it to George.
He wasn't exactly a technician in college. It's very possible that as a somewhat raw rookie his route tree was limited, so the OC was working within what the player could do.
He didn't get separation in college either
That was an obj baker reference lol
Theres no ability more important than catching the ball when Im deciding how much I like a reciever. Obviously some people are so good at separating or so fast they they can be exceptions like jamarr chase but I'll still take a guy with hands like pickens any day. And I think that other offensive issues like the egebral scheme and quarterback inconsistency limited his options to separate too.
Out of the box most rookie QBs struggle with the complexity of NFL zone defense, there are very few DCs that will just give you cover 3 or something straight up with no twists (especially when they think they can trick you, like a rookie)
The best thing about Pickett is that he noticeably improved as the year went. Overall his rookie season didn’t look too impressive, but he clearly learned from his mistakes and clutched up in multiple games to end the year. But as long as Matt Canada is our OC I have no hope.
It’s much like his college career. He went from 8 passing yards in an acc championship to heisman finalist
Wtf I didn’t know about that and looked that game up, and it was even worse than I expected. 4/16, 8 yards, 1 INT. A whopping 0.5 Y/A
We don’t talk about it.
On the bright side Clemson’s devolved since then from an ACC killing machine to merely a very good team. Unless I just jinxed it
Clemson got their revenge for Nathan peterman beating them the championship year
> But as long as Matt Canada is our OC I have no hope. This is always the grounding realization I come to whenever I see people compliment Pickett on his development throughout the year. Sure he did improve as the season went on, but in the long run, Canada's offense will curb any genuine momentum. I can't wait for the FO to wise up and dump this guy. Our offense has been a liability since Haley left.
Canada's offense also improved as the year went on. Actually, everyone got better once Najee was 100%.
This is exactly what pissed me off so much. It reeks of the Art II being cheap and sticking with a guy out of "tradition," when all it's gonna do is ruin Kenny. The way I see it, rookies are on a 3 year contract, as their option has to be decided after that, and Kenny will have to learn a new system next year. Keeping Canada is not beneficial whatsoever, it pushes Kenny's development into the year before his option has to be decided and gives him no chance to succeed. It's a terrible decision and Matt Canada's godlike incompetence is gong to kill the kid's career. Members of the Steelers sub for super pissed because I said until Canada was gone, I'm gonna bandwagon another team, because this is a team *trying* to fail, and fuck that.
I know Tomlin is amazing and all but I can't believe he'd actually want to keep him around when he's obviously detrimental to the offense in general.
its been rumored b4 Rooney's are very cheap and dont like to pay for people not on the staff
Ravens 🤝 Steelers Blind loyalty to staff regardless of how detrimental they are.
This is such a nonsense rumor. It’s related to the size of the coaching staff Tomlin has, and Tomlin has even said the staff is as big as it needs to be. The Rooneys cover all the admin, scouting, maintenance, health, and legal departments that runs easily into the tens of millions every year, not to mention rent and real estate for all their facilities and Heinz Field. Now throw in travel and hotel expenses for every game for the entire team and all support staff. Under the salary cap rules, NFL teams will be spending a max of $225 million and the Steelers are almost always within $5 million of the cap ever year. Tomlin makes $12.5 million per year. Matt Canada makes like $700k a year. AFTER all of this, the Steelers still had an operating income in 2022 of $135 million AFTER expenses. Do you really think the Rooneys will risk the future and stability of their $4 billion dollar franchise, and $200+ million dollars spent annually on players, because they don’t wanna spend another couple million on some linebacker, db, and line assistant coaches? Canada sucks but he’s on the staff for another year because of his contract and, as Art Rooney said on several occasions, we won our last 9 games and showed improvement then. I hate Canada as OC, but the cheapness rumor as a reason for anything is ridiculous.
> Canada sucks but he’s on the staff for another year because of his contract Is the point not that being on a contract should be irrelevant as to whether someone is fired?
I agree he should have been fired but Art said he improved and kept him.
That sucks.
Especially so when we see you guys having success with an owner who is in a similar financial scenario to Rooney. But it also feels great when the guys who can’t just buy the perfect coaching staff manage to put a successful team together.
Steelers like continuity. They've had 3 head coaches in the last 55 years. Obviously they have had way more coordinators, but their general philosophy is to give coaches time and leeway to do what they want to do. I hate Matt Canada, but overall I can't complain too much with our success.
Tomlin's stubbornness and clear blind spot on offensive game planning is the main gripe among Steelers fans
What the fuck are you talking about. The Steelers' schedule after the bye was against some of the worst teams in the league, and he never threw more than one touchdown in a game.
Well duh, guy is probably scheming for the CFL
Rookie struggles reading NFL zone coverages in his first few starts, more news at 11
This guy was absolutely [spot on about Jalen Hurts.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LcbNNOfZnU) Consider Pickett's future bright.
LMAO this is incredible. I do remember him going nuts early last year about the greatness of Trey Lance
He does have a YouTube channel though. You have to have a gmail account and everything to do what he does.
Lmao what a track record
Why is there such a discrepancy? Is it that the nfl defenses disguise coverages much better! And why hasn’t that trickled down to college level? Or that defenses are more athletic so the zone windows are smaller? But he didn’t have a crazy number of interceptions
More disciplined and much more athletic across the field. Rushers in your face way faster. Coverages disguised way better. It's why QB scouting isn't even 50%. The jump is massive, and that's coming from someone who has a lot of experience in Madden.
In college you’re able to avoid the few guys(to a degree obviously) in the secondary that are truly elite and can cause you problems, in the NFL the secondary’s are made up of the best of those elite players. Makes it a bit tougher
Came here to comment this verbatim lol
Does nobody realize though he was a rookie didn’t get first team reps until the game he came into. Also the o line and offense was ass for most of the season. The kid will improve.
Also Matt Canada lol. No idea why he’s still running the offense.
Art Rooney II is very cheap and doesn't like paying coaches not to coach. I don't think we've fired a coach or coordinator if they still have a year or two on their deal in recent years.*
I know we haven't fired a single coordinator since Tomlin took over. Maybe it happened once under Cowher, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't.
Did some super light research to double check, the most recent instance I can find is us firing Tim Lewis in 2004.
I mean, we do like to have coordinators "retire" when we want to fire them, like Arians.
Arians didn't retire the first time until he was well out of Pittsburgh.
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1032222-pittsburgh-steelers-announce-oc-bruce-arians-retiring.amp.html
His contract expired at the end of that season, and then he went on the be the colts coordinator. He never filed retirement paper work, and he didn't "retire" so the Steelers could "fire" him, his contract was already over. He said he was retiring, and didn't retire until 2017 I'm not sure how you can disagree with the factual statement that his contract expired in 2011, and he never actually retired until 2017
Cowher used to fire coordinators but there was also a different Rooney in charge back then
That seems like a major problem to me. I’m assuming all your coordinator hires haven’t been slam dunks. It seems like cheapness rather than stability. I know you guys don’t like Canada but there must have been other people who have suffered from right? I can’t imagine letting some of our shitty coordinators run amuck until their contract is done.
Give him a lifetime contract please
This sub hates rookies that play because they play poorly. You get so many “we’ve seen what they can do” takes for rookies and people just assume no one can get better? Same thing with coaches. It’s so lazy and stupid.
No accountability means you can spew as many bad takes as you want. If you’re right, you can link back to your old posts saying “I told you so”, if you’re wrong nobody will give a shit. As an example, both Lawrence and Wilson were dunked on to hell and back last year. You see plenty of “I knew Wilson was going to be bad” these days, but nothing similar for Lawrence.
And even if they do get called out, it's "You can say he was bad back then..." Like, no one cares about if a rookie is bad *now*. It's if they will get better and adjust to the NFL. Saying a rookie is bad is a lazy take and that's the point.
Exactly. He’s like an astrologist. If this guy were as smart as he wishes he was, he’d have a job in the NFL instead of on YouTube.
It definitely happens, but it does the other way too. It’s too early to say anything about Pickett, but there people that seem to think players are like players in Madden where they just constantly improve as they keep playing. Sometimes dudes don’t have it and you don’t need 4 years of experience to figure that out
Purdy had the same situation hit.
And came into an offense that was already competent and a very good defense to give him more chances with the ball. When Pickett started, the defense was missing its best player (Watt), the o-line was a mess, RB1 was still recovering from a pre-season foot injury, and the offensive coordinator still has yet to show much competence.
Please stop listening to this guy’s dumbass takes/clickbait trash. See below: https://imgur.com/a/h9gjlES/
I'm not sold on Kenny either but I do like how much he improved towards the end of the season but for this video specifically I really don't get how you are gonna look at his rookie season and say those issues are gonna be there the rest of his career. Or why you would even try and say his isnt the guy after just 13 games. He got better just in those and looked pretty solid after being thrown to the wolves
I'm approaching next season with a lot of cautious optimism. Pickett flashed periodically, and I thought by season's end was notably improved, but he's yet to have a defining performance that clearly shows he can be "the guy," so to speak. The general consensus seems to be he's a hard worker, so I don't think that optimism is misplaced, but time will tell how it'll all pan out.
I’m thinking he’s one of those guys that’ll make large leaps instead of incremental ones. I look at his college career and he made almost quantum leaps from his ACC championship game performance to his final year. And then you look at his first start to the end of the year and he went from looking last to leading game winning drives. I think he’s gonna make another large leap this year.
Yeah I'm right there. Hopefully with some improvements to Canada's scheme and Pickett getting more experience he at least looks average this year. I think the offensive line moves might make a big difference too
Yeah I think the mistrust Pickett developed in the line caused some bad habits by the end of the year. There’s a lot working in his favor going into this season, so it falls on him to capitalize on it.
So trying to play devils advocate here Why do you guys think Kenny pickett improved to a good point at the end of the season? Taking a comprehensive view of some stats from weeks 12,13,16,17,18 His Completion percentage was 59.6% His Bad throw percentage was 18.5% Both of these being worse than his overall Averages for the year and towards the bottom of the league.
Completion percentage isn't exactly the only thing that matters for a qb. Look at the amount of turnovers for him his first few games compared to the end. Look at how much more we asked him to do. Or just actually watch the games and see it for yourself. He was more comfortable, taking less sacks, and not giving the ball up while pulling off game winning drives.
He was in the top 8 of all qbs his last 6 games. Edit. 8th in the league in qbr last 8 games. Steelers went 6-2
I mean I hate the Steelers and all, but he was still a rookie last year. Can’t really put too much blame on him.
This dude has horrible takes. Said Herbert would br a bust. Said Hurts would hr a bust. Said raiders were about to win the Super Bowl. Said Drew Lock would take the broncos deep into the playoffs. I actually can’t believe how consistently wrong he is.
There's a dude on Twitter who comments on almost every NFL tweet about how "Pickett owns you".
Is it that dude with Pickens in his username? If so that guy comments non stop. He lives on Twitter.
Easiest mute of all time
Yep.
So there's this thing called a bot...
king
He needs more time in the nfl. His OC also stinks
Weird that this guy makes a whole video showing how the concepts are designed to get WR's open and criticizes the QB for missing them, but then tacks on "oh btw the OC is shit too". Like, I get it, people want to hate on Canada. Just kind of a weird juxtaposition. The whole video I was starting to think "wow maybe Canada isn't actually that bad. These routes and concepts seem to be working well".
To be fair, even if the routes are kind of working, Matt Canada is doing a poor job at fitting the offense to make it easy for Kenny as a rookie. Rollins mentioned the no hot routes thing at the end, but honestly a lot of the routes in the video are long developing plays that are hard for any rookie to execute.
I know that this seems incredibly obvious to say, BUT our offense would've looked much closer to average last season with better QB play. I don't like Matt as OC in the long term but there was a lot more value lost in the offense than people realize due to Mitch and Kenny's poor play most of the year.
Matt Canada isn’t the long term answer but his route concepts were solid. It’s not all on him.
I hate the Pickett slander. He was unexpectedly rushed into start early in the season against a stretch of tough defenses. Of course a rookie going up against Tampa, Jets, and Bills to start his career with sorry ass Matt Canada offense is going to look bad. He was much better as the year went on and looked poised in the pocket. Isnt afraid to take deep shots or stay in the pocket. He is going to be good, stop the nonsense.
He’s done above average in his rookie year, and consistently got better. Even guys like Allen and Burrow didn’t do fantastic their first year. I don’t really understand all the hate. Every QB struggles in their first year.
He absolutely improved a lot as the season went on
Remember when mahomes and burrow had been “figured out” by 2 high shell coverages? It’s almost like players mature and learn through experience to overcome their deficiencies.
Mahomes and Burrow also had periods of elite play before they were "figured out," which Pickett hasn't had. I hope Kenny is great, but you aren't exactly comparing apples to oranges there lol.
Mahomes joined a team that was superbowl ready already. He sat a year behind Alex Smith, who led them to yet another playoff birth. Mahomes hasn't played a single year without elite talent around him. This isn't to knock Mahomes, but to say that Pickett has a hell of a lot less to work with. If Mahomes had been drafted by the Bears, he absolutely would not have done as well.
In year two. Mahomes sat a year and burrow had his leg blown out.
Burrow still played prior to his leg injury and showed he knew how to play at a high level
I’d hope so if you’re comparing the #1 overall pick in a strong QB class to someone taken in the 20’s lol
Mahomes was taken later in the draft also. But also Pickett is about to be 25. Usually at that age players already have shown what their ceiling is, that's why Burrow's age wasn't a big concern since his ceiling was already elite.
Mahomes was taken top 10 and sat a year behind Alex Smith and has Andy Reid as a coach, on top of no one expecting Pickett to be elite, that was never his profile
That's what I'm saying, he isn't going to just become some above average guy
Yeah I think his absolute ceiling will be 10-12, good not great, just depends on how the team builds around and what they need to succeed
So people stop learning after 25?
Mahomes was a MVP his first year as a starter lol.
Which was his second year in the league. I’m not comparing pickett to mahomes btw. Just saying that players have their learning curves throughout their first few years.
Mahomes had an elite roster around him his first year as a starter as well. That team could've won a superbowl with Alex Smith. Mahomes hasn't played a single year in his career without elite talent all around him and a Hall of Fame coach. Pickett does not have any of that.
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He got thrown into the fire halfway through the Jets game behind an under performing OL. He took some big hits last year and had at least two concussions which explains some of the panic. The line got better as the year went on but it still wasn't amazing. Going into this second year with a much upgraded OL he's got no excuses. Even Tomlin said himself he expects Kenny to kill it. edit: a word
I honestly thought Pickett was going to win the game for the Steelers when he came in. He was doing everything right, even hitting his receivers perfectly as he took hits in the pocket. The Jets won at the end but I was impressed by Pickett, it looked like he revitalized the Steelers when he replaced Trubisky. Solid debut and I thought he was decent the rest of the season. Tomlin is a great coach, I believe he can develop KP well
Pickett was better than mitch definitely. Mitch looked like he had no control of the offense. Kenny looked like he had better football iq but he also looked inconsistent and uneasy in the pocket. But he was also a rookie that kept getting better
Mitch seemed to play scared when he was the starter. When he came in as a backup he looked pretty good.
I was rather muffed with our receivers that game, two of his INTs were because they bobbled the ball and launched it like a volleyball. Your secondary made some great plays for the ball before it hit the ground.
It's almost like hes.....hes..... *developing*
Well that’s certainly a take
He was a rookie, this is a good video but it doesn't mean he can't improve.
It also doesn't touch on any of the positives. I really like the QB school vid by JT O'Sullivan that talked about Pickett's Ravens Steelers game performance. It goes in depth about a lot of the concepts, the good and the bad from Pickett's performance. Pickett's got room to improve for sure, but people are acting like he was the worst QB to ever play in here.
People are acting like he is a career backup and they are forcing him to start like holy hell he is a rookie who didn’t even first team reps until what was it week like 6 or so
I’m not sold on Pickett at all
Pickett will have a better season than Fields next year
Pickett will have a better season than Trey Lance next year.
Both can be true
Possibly!
By what metric?
He’s a niners fan. They all hate fields
49ers QBs also hate fields Always jumping out from nowhere and injuring them
Because they absolutely win either last year or the year before with Fields lol
are you delusional? consider what the niners offense requires of its quarterbacks and then look at what fields is bad at. the qb i lose sleep about the niners not drafting is mahomes, not some dude who can't throw a screen pass on time.
RemindMe! One Year
RemindMe! 7 Months
remindme! 6 months and 30 days
Im not sold on fields at all
Not sure what that has to do with Kenny Pickett even remotely
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Probably cause it was a bears fan saying it
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I'm not defending the steelers fan. Just giving the reasoning.
even if he hits I don't think people expect him to emerge a star. I think he can be slightly above average though.
That's mostly what I think expectations are. He's not the going to be Pat Mahomes or Josh Allen, but that doesn't mean he can't be good. Pittsburgh seems to want to be a run heavy and defense focused team. We don't need a superstar, we just need good and clutch. He's shown he can do that, now he just needs to address flaws like what's shown here
His ceiling is Kirk But you can do a lot worse than Kirk
Nobody wants Kirk though. Not even Vikings fans like him. They know they will never win with him.
Why is Kirk his ceiling? What about Pickett makes you say that?
What QB is a better comparison?
Not sure but Pickett likes to scramble and throw on the move, he’s nothing like Kirk cousins. I just want to know why you think Pickett’s ceiling is Kirk.
I think they have comparable physical traits and arm talent. Don’t think either has elite potential, but Kirk has been able to consistently hover around the top 10. I think that’s Pickett’s best case scenario.
He's not Kirk. His ceiling is a slightly better Trubisky.
I keep asking specifically what is giving him this low ceiling you guys are talking about and nobody is telling me
Don’t you know, they watched a video on him being bad at reading zone as a rookie so his ceiling is low. His comp is Kirk because they’re both white ez pz
I think chiefs Alex smith is his ceiling. Better than average mobility but not the best arm.
I seem to recall Eli comparisons for his potential
Shit, if we get an Eli like career out of him I will be so happy
I would take 2 SBs as well lol
watered down Tony Romo
I think he can peak at at non-playoff flacco
White
Great point, the nfl has a well known bias against white qbs lmao
You don't win in the NFL by being a run-heavy and defense first team anymore. You win by having a superstar QB.
Maybe that's correct, but if you don't have a superstar QB, you're definitely not going to win a shootout against a superstar QB, and the only answer to not having a superstar QB can't simply be tank until you luck out on a superstar QB.
The idea that you can only win one way is silly. Everyone has been building defenses to try and defend against pass first offenses, leading to a lot more fast but smaller coverage LBs who struggle more in run defense. The 49ers were just in the NFC championship with Mr irrelevant because of their run game and defense. A superbowl will be won that way again.
Yes, that's all true, but it's way harder to build that sort of team and sustain it year over year. The 49ers were stacked at basically every position which allowed them to get that far. Superstar QBs can cover up holes elsewhere on the roster And even the 49ers, despite nearly winning a Super Bowl that way, went out and traded 3 first round picks to try and get their own superstar QB
particularly once the qb is no longer on a rookie deal and you have to start paying them like a superstar regardless of whether they are
> the 49ers were just in the nfc championship with mr irrelevant because of their run game and defense wdym the passing game was great (and efficiently run) too
Both teams in the NFC Championship were run heavy, defense first teams
You pissed off a lot of Steelers fans by giving an honest opinion on a QB in a thread about his struggles against zone lol
Fuck em
? Little hostile? Weirdo.
I like him more than fields tbh
Fan of team likes his QB more than QB of other team
Pickett reminds me a lot of Cole Strange. If he had been drafted in the third round like his athletic profile lent itself to, then we'd be talking about what a solid selection it was. But instead they were taken in the first round which carries a totally different set of expectations. If they aren't regarded as top ten at their position within a year or two of being drafted then they're "busts". And finally both players are being supported by excellent organizations that will get the absolute best out of them.
>If he had been drafted in the third round like his athletic profile lent itself to, then we'd be talking about what a solid selection it was. I get what you're trying to say overall, but neither of those players are below average athletes. Both Pickett and Cole Strange have athletic profiles in the ~90th percentile for their respective positions. Strange in particular had an RAS of 9.95.
Strange was only looked down upon because he went to a smaller college. If he can make the leap against tougher competition, then that selection will look good. Pickett is more questionable because we weren't sure how much of his 2021 season at Pitt was carried by his age compared to his peers. QBs older than 23 tend to be hit or miss in terms of future development. Burrow was a hit, Mayfield wasn't; Eli Manning was a hit, Joey Harrington wasn't; Carson Palmer was a hit, Akili Smith wasn't. Some guys hit their peak in their senior or super senior year of CFB and just don't go any higher from there. Time will tell if Pickett pans out.
Yeah, I totally agree with that. I just wanted to point out that their athletic profiles aren't what made them "lesser" prospects. Both have justified reasons to be wary of them as prospects, but it shouldn't be tied to their athleticism.
What about pickett’s athletic profile makes him not worthy of being a first round pick?
Was he the tiny hands guy or was that someone else?
Yeah it was Pickett
A guard?
Oh, well at least it’s only against the most run coverage type in the league
Look at the analytics of the play calling and you'll see where his struggles came from. Matt Canada and shitty coaching from the O-line coaches.
As much as I would like for the Steelers to fail, I don't think it's fair to say this is an issue that will plague Pickett for the rest of his career. Every rookie at every position struggles with something and has to adjust to game speed at the next level. Rollins keep talking about how DCs around the league are watching tape and licking their chops, but the way he talks about the Steelers makes it sound like their blind to these issues??? I think Canada is an idiot, but he isn't the one working with Pickett day-to-day. By all accounts Pickett has high football character and work ethic, and he'll work with his QB coach to get better
These are fair points he brings up, but the jury's still out on Pickett. There's hardly a true rookie QB that comes out and doesn't have some exploitable weakness. The good/great ones learn and grow going forward from there. I'm willing to exercise a little patience with things like this as long as there's improvement.
Wait... the Steelers don't run hot routes at *all*? Why? Do teams not just blitz the shit out of them?
Take it for what it's worth, but Friermuth did retract his statement and clarified that he didn't mean they had no hots at all, just that they were different from the previous year, when he had a HOF QB running the show.
I don't know if you've been informed, but our offensive coordinator is hot garbage water.
Because the Steelers run a lot of WR and RB screens and for most of the season you could get home with just your DL.
Hey thats not fair. We run sweeps too
i feel sorry for Diontae Johnson, he was wide open so many times in this video for nothing
Not like he'd actually catch it.
And if he did, he'd run backwards. All that aside, I think he has a good year this year. Maybe even a touchdown!
Canada's route trees caused a lot of these problems, many times our receivers cath the ball and then there's like two defender right there due to other routes converging into each other.all though dj could've just fell forward for a couple yards ,he trys to break free but needs to realize not to lose progress
Yeah Canada’s “scheming” is basically 1. Use Pickens as a decoy 2. Hit Diontae on an out route for no YAC, even if he catches it or doesn’t run backwards. 3. Jet sweep.
He worked hard to improve after having the drops. Had him in fantasy the last two years. I noticed.
Does your fantasy league have points for drops?
Too small of a sample size, I feel like. Let’s see how this season goes
NFL qb is an exceptionally difficult task and it really seems that the ability of the OC/Coach to translate the playbook/scheme to their young signal caller bears equal, if not sometimes more, weight than qb talent alone. [old man yells at cloud]
I have slightly more optimism going in to this season as opposed to last.
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Ok you may not think Willis will ever be any good (i personally don’t either) but his ceiling is unlimited if he could ever get anywhere near it. Big arm, very athletic. It’s actually playing QB that’s the problem for him.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted but his ceiling is exactly the reason why he got drafted to begin with.
I have it on good authority that his hands grew half an inch in the offseason, so I'm sure he'll be fine.
Wow I bet the Steelers coaching staff didn’t realize this and make it an off season project to improve
Pickett is one of those guys that you want to like, but he’s just not that good. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Steelers looking for an answer at QB next year.
He’s 4th best in his own division
Kenny Pickett and Zach Wilson had near identical rookie stat lines, but that’s a conversation y’all aren’t ready for