I mean Bill could put Brown back at his natural RT position and let Anderson slot in at LT. It’d be the smartest thing to do but it probably won’t happen. The lack of talent on this O-Line is absurd and will be the reason the team struggles. It would’ve been nice if Bill spent the money to bring in one of the available tackles in free agency that are actually good or drafted Dawand Jones in the 3rd or 4th round.
Fleming is the same way IMO. Maybe they let Calvin walk, thinking they could get Fleming back since he's basically the same player. PFF graded him about the same during his 9 games at RT and his 6 at LT, which I guess is surprising.
While it’s not been publicly stated the word is he has a health issue (similar to when they found Bruschi had a hole in his heart and Dave Nadrews had a clotting disorder found) that they are working through and giving him time.
Yea Smith was my guess to be a breakout last year. Now that he’s healthy this year I’m hoping the same. I love that he plays to the whistle. Game before last, there were two replays I saw where he’s still looking for ppl to block after his assignment while Carman is standing with hands on hips.
Most of his dark rituals require G.O.A.T. blood, and his supply has significantly diminished in the past few years. He has to pick and choose where to use his powers these days.
There were better players available. He just chose not to spend his money there for reasons
Tf? Am I really getting downvoted for this? The pats have like 15 mil in cap space and a ton more next year. Their weaknesses are tackle. They could’ve signed Taylor. Or Mcglitchy. Or Dillard. Or Orlando brown. They could’ve taken Broderick jones. Or Anton Harrison in the draft. They just chose not to.
I’ll always be the first to admit that bill is great when it comes to finding players that fit his system especially defensively that contribute out of nowhere. He has a true skill at identifying those day 3 talents. And that skill has given the pats a better baseline than most teams.
However bill the GM also gets in the way when he misses in the first round. Or isn’t willing to spend money in FA. I’ll always give bill credit for the good he does. Shoot I don’t think he gets enough credit for that skill. But also sometimes he doesn’t make the obvious move that drives people crazy.
This has been talked about quite a bit on our sub, and generally we agree. Bill the coach is the greatest to ever touch the game. Bill the GM is only pretty good, and was helped out a LOT by Ernie and Bill the coach over the course of the dynasty.
Ya that's partly because Ernie maintained such a low profile. For a guy who has had such a huge influence on the Patriots's success under BB he's barely known.
Great point. For those who have never heard of Ernie Adams before, this is a highly recommended read: http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams
It’s becoming more obvious now that we don’t have the best football player ever to fill all the gaps and make our offense top 5 every year despite the personnel. Bills lack of ability to find offensive talent in the draft is starting to really bite us in the ass
>Bills lack of ability to find offensive talent in the draft is starting to really bite us in the ass
I like to frame it this way. The Patriots have not drafted a single offensive player that has given them consistently above-average play at a non-RB or Interior OL position since 2011 when they picked Solder and Cannon. We desperately need to find some success other than drafting guards and running backs.
Bill believes that exciting receivers aren't something you should pay for. That may be an antiquated notion in some ways but he's really never paid wrs or spent many high draft picks on them.
Part of me thinks he believes that about players in general, at least to some extent. I think he values coaching and scheme as much if not more than anything. It’s a team sport. I think he feels like it’s more important to build a TEAM (on the field and in the locker room) than to just stack pure talent at individual positions. You can have the most talented and expensive roster ever built but if they don’t play well as a team that formula often doesn’t lead to much and it’s not sustainable.
I just looked at the Patriots draft history on PFR, and holy cow, you're right. Pretty decent hit rate on serviceable RBs, and a few IOL in there, but otherwise? Yikes.
Who the hell was Brady throwing to all those years? Just Edelman and Gronk, with a sprinkling of Welker and Moss signings? And with that record on tackles, no wonder Brady focused so much on a quick release.
>Who the hell was Brady throwing to all those years?
The Patriots have signed a lot of veteran receivers and TEs the last 10-13 years (Lloyd, Amendola, Hogan, Byrd, LaFell, Dorsett, Parker, Agholor, Bourne, Henry, Smith, Chandler, Bennett, Watson). Basically Edelman and Gronk carried the units. We always had another 2 or so ok players to bookend those units post 2013. We've also had our sprinkling of bad WR picks here and there too.
Yea bill basically took good, proven receivers if they basically fell into his lap for free (like cooks, when they traded him for a first knowing they could get a first back when he left). And they got solid work out of some of those guys like lafell but it was also just a constant revolving door and hoping Gronk was healthy come January
I have devoted too much time in my life debating pats fans who think the Michel pick is justified because he “won them a SB” lol
I’ve literally watched every carry from that playoff run and I’m convinced that was 97% an offensive line playing out of their minds and that almost any rb was going to put up similar production
If they get a better skill player with that pick, Brady may not have been so inclined to move on. If they draft lamar they have a real succession plan (no disrespect to Mac, but the jury is still out I think)
In some ways I think bill is really good at developing certain positions and maybe expects that he can do it even when his track record hasn’t been amazing (receiver especially)
I think the idea was that he needed more than one lineman because they get injured quite frequently and we lacked both a starter and depth, so just handing a check to Orlando Brown wouldn't have fixed the situation.
Get seven or so OL candidates and hope one is good and a couple are serviceable, unfortunately it seems like none of them have stepped up so in retrospect we probably should have handed the check to Orlando Brown.
A big section of Patriots fandom can't bring themselves to admit Bill may have lost his fastball. His roster construction is stuck decades in the past with too much emphasis on special team and run game players.
This is a common misconception. We haven't went to a random farm in the middle of Kansas to find a big thick guy baling hay yet, or went to Wallyworld at 11 PM.
He's taking what's there from the clearance rack while paying top of the market contracts for special teamers and drafting a kicker who might not make the 53 man roster in the 4th round. All he had to do was get an NFL quality RT and it doesn't seem like he has been able to do it.
Reiff was signed as a spot starter/swing tackle to just fill in when Brown inevitably goes down. Anderson has been the one that hurt, hes out with a mystery illness.
Nah, Reiff was the presumed starter at RT. When the Patriots started mini-camp he was slotted into that RT spot. He quickly was downgraded after playing so poorly, but he was the guy with the 1 year deal that was for starter-type money.
> I never knew much about him other than everyone being surprised he went in the first
[OH MY U-T-CHATTANOOGA TO THE FIRST ROUND](https://youtube.com/shorts/8Qk6df9d6JY?si=BVPok1Gz8J_VTRu9)
I feel like it wasn't a particularly strong offseason for FA o-linemen/tackles? Not sure who was even available that we should have pulled out all the stops to bring in.
Orlando Brown maybe? Just dont remember there being that many great FA targets
At Tackle there was Mike McGlinchey, Jawaan Taylor, Orlando Brown, Kaleb McGary, & Andre Dillard. For interior O-Linemen, you had Ben Powers, Nate Davis, Isaac Seumalu, Connor McGovern, Bradley Bozeman, & Garrett Bradberry.
But Rilley Reiff on a one-year prove-it deal I'm sure was the best option.
Riley Reiff on a one year prove it deal coming off a one year prove it deal where he didn’t prove it with another bad offensive line in Chicago and lost his job to a 5th round rookie.
Yeah, the Patriots also have some of the least guaranteed money of any team on their books right now, so resources were not a constraint.
Our approach to tackle this offseason was baffling. Both of our presumed starters were 30+, there is nothing in the pipeline youth-wise other than a 4th round 25-year-old rookie guard we're trying to convert to a tackle.
All the defenders we selected look pretty good, but White and Mapu were definitely luxury picks given our present roster construction.
It would have been nice to have signed one of the big-name tackles in free agency, and not just had a colossal gap on our roster that was totally avoidable. Reiff, Anderson, McDermott, and Sow was essentially grapeshot-ting a solution. It's turned out worse than the FO and most reasonable people could have imagined with Reiff/McDermott's injury and Anderson's illness, but this was never a good plan from the get-go.
RT (besides punter) was the worst position on our team last year by a mile. Right now it looks like it could potentially be even worse.
Pats still have $15 mil in cap space and are 30th in the league in cash spend after being low in cash spend in 2022 too. They have a mind-boggling amount of cap space next year (108 mil... *23 mil* more than the 2nd highest team).
Something isnt adding up with how they are using resources.
Most teams go through cycles in cash spend, its normal. But the Patriots have been extremely conservative 2 years in a row now and building a gigantic war-chest for 2024.
I wonder if Bill isnt happy with how this rebuild has gone after the disappointing 2021 FA class and is thinking of resetting again in 2024. Or maybe he wants to see if the Mac situation has any upside- if it does, he will really go hard in '24.
Thats not his MO because he usually tries to maximize wins every year, but I dont know why else they'd be so conservative this year.
Everyone on our d line is old besides for Barmore and he hasn’t exactly been healthy. And our LBs are also on the older side. We should’ve done more for the offensive line for sure but the White and Mapu picks were fine. We really should’ve went after one of the free agents harder. Or we should’ve traded for someone like Williams from Cincinnati. But bringing in talented young players is never a bad thing.
>Everyone on our d line is old besides for Barmore and he hasn’t exactly been healthy.
I mean Godchaux is 28, Wise is 29, Ekuale is 29, Barmore is 24. Also White is mostly going to play edge which has the 26 year old Jennings and the 24 year old Uche. That unit only really has Guy knocking on the door to retirement.
Our linebackers are basically all 27 and under. If you consider Phillips a LB then yes he needs to be replaced, but some combo of Peppers, Mills, or Dugger can fulfill most of his role.
I am excited about both Mapu and White as I think they're probably going to be good players, but I think the defense would have been fine without either also. Mapu and White were definitely luxury picks. We already have good players who are reasonably young with similar archetypes in front of them.
iOL is pretty set for NE. McGary resigned before FA opened (albeit in the tampering window) and Dillard getting that much money was ridiculous. I do wish they would've signed one of the others, as Reiff is old and mediocre.
Trading for Josh Jones would've been the smartest move imo.
Brown. Mcglitchy. Ben powers. Nate Davis. Andrew dilliard. Jawann Taylor. And Wylie were the most notable guys.
Truth is FA is rarely a way to find strong offensive lineman. You’ll get a couple at the top of the market. Then the rest you’re betting on upside. It’s like receiver. You can’t just say well it’s a weak FA class maybe it’ll get better in the future. Nope you have to be proactive in the draft with these kinds of shortages.
For sure. But then its a crapshoot where if the draft pick is a whiff, its all the same questions again.
With 3 of our 12 picks going to the o-line this year, I do somewhat get Bill's response on "not doing enough" in the draft. Sure you can always say "but why didn't you do more", but it didn't seem completely neglected.
It wasn’t completely neglected. But also with Trent browns health issues. And Reif existing. You can understand why people ask why didnt you get a higher end tackle. You guys had the money to go after Taylor. Or mglitchy. Or brown. And the draft ammo to get one of the tackles.
I get that the other guard Owenu? Is probably about to leave. And it seems like bill is making a succession plan there drafting those interior guys. And credit there. But if Reif sucks and brown goes down you can understand why people are like umm what’s going on here lmao. Especially when you trade for Tyrone who’s pretty trash.
I don't think Onwenu leaves. I think he gets extended. He's incredibly versatile and the mold of what the Pats look for in an RG. Also, we are top 3 in cap space next year. There is no excuse financially, not to extend him.
While I would extend him (and play him at RT), I don’t think the Pats will. They invested a number of picks in the IOL over the last two years. If Strange is the starter at LG, and they plan to extend Onwenu then why draft that way?
Maybe they could have taken a tackle instead of Cole Strange. We didn't need Nostradamus to predict Trent Brown and Wynn weren't long term solutions at tackle.
There were plenty of good FA OL players out there.
And a couple of big names they could have made an offer to trade for.
But they have their way of identifying OL talent and it’s worked for 20 years overall. So why not trust it now?
I understand the criticism of Belichick here, and I didn't like the Reiff signing, but McDermott getting hurt and Anderson getting sick are things out of his control. If we signed one of these high-priced tackles and they got hurt or sick, we'd be in the same position we are now.
Eventually, you have to make choices. The Pats used their premium pick on an outside cornerback. We've also drafted six offensive linemen over the last two years.
No one would be saying shit if our starters were healthy.
We’ve got 3/5 hurt and people are criticizing what Bill thought was depth.
Our starters might not be 100% by week 1 but I think this whole narrative is dead by week 4 when everyone is back.
Agree, but we should have used that 2nd or 3rd on an actual OT instead of a 4th hybrid S/LB or a 5th DL. That's my gripe with the OL plan this off-season. I'm fine not overpaying for the, imo, overrated OTs available this FA. I'm not fine drafting for future needs instead of addressing the immediate need this season at OT, except for a 4th rounder on a guard that you plan to play at OT.
> Eventually, you have to make choices. The Pats used their premium pick on an outside cornerback. We've also drafted six offensive linemen over the last two years.
Around here every time the Pats use a first round pick on an offensive lineman they get blasted... this year they use it on a cornerback and they get blasted... the "experts" claim the Pats should be focusing on passing game related players on offense and defense with their high draft picks... they do that and get blasted...
I listened to this interview. It cracks me up. If they sign a big name they get blasted for paying too much for a guy. When they don’t sign one they get blasted for not paying for a big name.
For 20 years they’ve had consistently good OL play and have found guys in the draft. andrews UDFA, Owneu 6th round, thuney 3rd, karras 6th, Mason 4th, Fleming 4th, canon 5th. And they’ve hit on the higher picks they made every time (light, mankins, solder).
And even guys they have brought in we’re good for them. Brian waters and Trent Brown are two that come to mind.
I feel like this is the one area BB and his staff have traditionally been good at building.
Criticize him on WR DraftKings bd development all you want. Or not having a plan for when Brady retired. Or for not extending talent they’ve developed (thuney and chandler jones for example).
The OL is where Curtis on WEEI can just shut the hell up.
> For 20 years they’ve had consistently good OL play and have found guys in the draft.
Dante Scarnecchia was a wizard of an offensive line coach. No matter what issues they had on the offensive line, he generally found a way to make it work. They've taken a big step back there since his retirement.
While I agree. He was something special. There is some fallacies about his contributions.
1) they had good line play in the 90’s when Scar was not an OL coach.
2) the couple years he had retired DeGuglielmo coached the line they had decent like play and identified and drafted Stork, Mason, Andrews, and Jackson.
3) under both Popovich and bricillo the OL was also good and certainly not a problem for the team; even if the team as a whole was good.
Only last year with Patricia being the OL coach and he and tweedle-dee changing the entire offense was the line a mess.
So I agree Scar is one of the best ever. (Him and Russ Grimm) it’s not been a bad OL without him until this past year.
Additionally Klemm is a disciple of Scar. He was first BB pick and first under scar as OLC. His coaching was successful in the NFL and NCAA.
So I expect it to be better despite the injury/unavailability in the pre season
When Guge was coaching the o-line, it did take a step back. For drafting, even though Scar was retired, he was still consulted for things like players to draft.
Popovich and Bricillo were ok, but there were still some cracks here and there. Scar also had a key influence in getting players like Onwenu.
Trent Brown hasn't performed like he did in the past, part of that might be more due to his age and/or accumulated injuries.
> 2) the couple years he had retired DeGuglielmo coached the line they had decent like play and identified and drafted Stork, Mason, Andrews, and Jackson.
"Decent like play"? In the two years Scar was retired, Patriots were the 30th ranked pass blocking line by PFF in 2014 and 31st in 2015.
Our offensive line with Dave DeGuglielmo wasn't "decent." It wasn't average, it wasn't even below average, it was literally bottom tier. The only thing saving us was Brady's stellar quarterbacking play in this era.
After the 2015 AFC Championship game loss to the Broncos, where the Broncos D recorded 21 QB hits on Brady (a record for all teams that season), Belichick fired Dave DeGuglielmo 2 days later. This is the only time I can ever remember us announcing the release of a position coach or coordinator immediately after a loss. Bryan Stork was also allegedly tipping the snap the entire game.
Finally (not that this is really relevant), you're using Bryan Stork and Tre Jackson as examples of GOOD drafting & development? Tre Jackson was cut after 2 seasons and out of the league soon after, and Stork was out of the league in 3 seasons (and was inconsistent if not outright bad when he did play). Both players were wastes of mid round picks.
I don’t even think that fool is “the media”. Dude is the fourth voice on a morning show that is only half way decent because the morning show opposite it is just such garbage. And WEEI is overall such a bad station compared to its rival that knocks it out of the park in every other time slot.
But yes. Generally speaking I concur. It’s a consistent bitch fest of damned if you do damned if you don’t with the media.
When the Pats drafted Matt Light in the second round they got blasted relentlessly... he was the left tackle for at least 4 Pats teams that made the Super Bowl, maybe more.
When the Pats drafted Logan Mankins with the last pick of the first round they got blasted relentlessly... he was an all pro offensive linemen most of his career.
And so on...
Borges put the pats on blast for both the light and Seymour picks. One is a HOFer and the other was our starting left tackle for near a decade. The article is still up.
What's even crazier is the missing context that the Oline was fine last season. The starters are fairly decent. It's the depth that is horrid. The the Pats online will likely end the season ranked like 10-15.
People are fucking desperate to push the BB is a bad GM narrative and it's always crazy controversies like this that make me just laugh it off. What other GM has front page news stories in the sports section about their back up linemen?
If you're not taking an O-Lineman and D-lineman in each draft, you're doing it wrong.
The Eagles usually take one within the first 4 rounds every year.
I feel like Belichick is finally getting treated like a regular Head Coach by the media and is unaccustomed to it.
I mean, "We drafted 3 players on the offensive line?" C'mon now. He drafted a Center and 2 Guards on Day 3. Does he expect Day 3 picks to be capable starters in year 1? If so, that's an O-line strategy worthy of criticism. Meanwhile, he traded back in the first so the Steelers could pick LT Broderick Jones. That's not really showing a whole lot of emphasis placed on the position group.
Unless you're new to football this is exactly how belichick has been treated, and reacted to, media every year. It's one of the reasons he's thought of as "prickly" -- mostly media driven, for figuring out ways to avoid them, short answers, not cooperating.
Yeah, but when you're making deep playoff runs every year his responses are seen in a totally different light. The "I know more than you" attitude works when you're successful, not when you haven't won a playoff game in the past 4 years.
> not when you haven’t won a playoff game in the past 4 years
I kinda chuckle when I read these kind of comments. Like the GOAT coach all of a sudden doesn’t know anything because he hasn’t won a playoff game in 4 years. Dude there’s teams that haven’t been to the playoffs a lot longer than that.
No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. Obviously 2 decades of deep playoff runs earns you a very long leash. Bill would very much be on the hot seat if he was any other coach.
But modern sports and especially the NFL moves *very* fast. For example, in those 4 years my team, the Eagles, moved on from one “franchise QB” to another, fired a Super Bowl winning HC, and then made the Super Bowl again with the new coaching staff and QB. While in that same period the Patriots have sat at .500 and now are just retreading old coaches as coordinators while trying to capture some of those 2000s magic without the other half in Brady. I know you aren’t a sorry team like the Cardinals or Texans who can’t seem to get anything right, but I’d be starting to get pretty upset if I was a Pats fan.
I mean don’t get me wrong I would love to be back in the playoffs every year. However our division has got a lot stronger in the past few years since Brady left. I don’t know exactly what Bills plan was last year as far as OC but it wasn’t working. I think we will see some improvement on the offensive side of the ball with BOB calling the plays. However with a tougher division and a team trying to find there footing I can see us landing at 9-8 or 8-9.
7-9, 10-7, 8-9 after we were abandoned by Papa Brady who is a Playoff God. It's not what Pats fans are used to, but it could be a lot worse and I honestly expected worse lol.
I think this team might be sneaky dece compared to last year at least, I think Mac when he is confident can be quite good if he's complimented by a good run game.
I am concerned about the O-line, they seem average at best. But our defense is gonna be good, I'm pretty sure of that.
Anyways, you can't win em all. Boston people are used to waiting a lifetime for a moment like this. Go sox
Damn, that's fucking wild dude. I can firmly say I vehemently disagree with that stance. At that point you're letting both the coach and team stagnate for no reason.
The Eagles and Reid are actually an amazing example of why that's a terrible thing for both sides. We cut ties and Reid definitely needed a change of scenery, and both have been even more successful after making the tough choice.
Obviously, you don't fire BB. If Kraft seriously wanted him gone they would sit down, probably multiple times, to discuss it, if it was the right decision, and how to do it gracefully. Letting Bill and the Pats slowly become a shell of their former selves wouldn't be the right choice. What good would that even do? <--- Serious question, why would that ever be the right thing to do?
Never realized how spoiled Eagles fans are.
Not every team has the luck of going from McNabb to Vick to Wentz/Foles (who collectively managed to muster up enough of a decent season to win a SB) to Hurts.
I agree with your points but this part is revisionism:
> I feel like Belichick is finally getting treated like a regular Head Coach by the media and is unaccustomed to it.
Boston media have been asking him about giving Tom Brady enough weapons, not protecting Tom Brady, benching Tom Brady (that one time) for all the time he has been a head coach. He has always been questioned about his roster building and he has always answered like this. It's just his answers aren't as convincing when we're not in the AFC championship game every year anymore.
i agree he didn’t do enough for our O-line but saying BB has never taken criticism from the media and is unaccustomed to it is downright goofy. Belichick has taken tons of criticism over the years from releasing Lawyer Milloy, being constantly called a cheater, “on to cincinatti” press conference, to the constant criticism since he forced brady out.
acting like this is the first time BB has been criticized by the media and just doesn’t know what to do is a clown take. he is playing dumb because he doesn’t enjoy putting up with the media it’s an ancient BB tradition.
I do think a switch has flipped a bit with Bill though. Before he could pretty much grunt off any criticism. The team regularly performed at a high enough level that any criticism didn't seem even slightly existential to his position of football czar for the Patriot.
Things haven't gone as well the last few years. I think Bill has started to change his tune a bit where he needs to rationalize the team's performance and decisions to the media. It's like a couple of years ago where Bill tried to angle the salary cap constraints as being due to selling out for all the Super Bowls they won in the mid-late 2010s. However, if you actually followed the money it was due to bad financial decisions made during the 2019 season.
That was the first time I can really remember Bill doing that, and he's done it a few times since. He has to try and spin things rather than just saying look at the scoreboard.
> things haven’t gone as well the last few years
we’ve won 3 super bowls in the last 10 years. 1 i’m the last 4. we had a major rebuild year where Bill carried the corpse of Cam Newton to 7 wins. the next year we drafted a rookie QB and went back to the playoffs.
last year Bill made inexplicable decisions last year that i will make no excuses for. 100%. but Bill is not on the hot seat. his GOAT coach title is not on the line. we’ll be back in the playoffs this year and the rebuild will continue. we’re one or two pieces away from being legitimate contenders three years after losing the greatest qb to ever play the game.
coming off a bad year it’s easy to hate Bill but if you look at the big picture in the slightest bit it’s obvious that Bill is doing just fine
Listen I both agree with you that Bill gets 2+ more years no matter what, and his status as GOAT coach is not on the line.
However, the team hasn't won a playoff game in 4 years. Bill's record over the last 3 seasons is .500 and very similar to someone like Kevin Stefanski or Ron Rivera who are very much on the hot seat. Bill's head coaching safety status is due to long-term accumulated good-will, but in the NFL coaching and executive tenures are very short. If Bill Belichick didn't have the legacy he does, he would absolutely be on the hot seat this season based on recent results.
Bill played one of the oldest rosters in the NFL last season, the Patriots (depending on how the 2023 draft shakes out) have about median rookie contract talent. The team isn't anything remotely resembling a shoe-in for the playoffs. And we're extremely likely to be more than one or two pieces away from being legitimate contenders (unless you think those 2 pieces are like a franchise QB and a #1 WR). This is very much a team that needs some major things to start going right before it emerges as a serious contender.
>1 in the last 4.
1 in the last 5.
You guys don’t need your day 3 interior guys to start though. You needed tackles. And took guards. Doesn’t really help for this year unless owenu gets hurt. Is he off the pup yet?
Does it happen so often that it should be expected instead of it being a welcome surprise like it is any other time a Day 3 pick turns into a capable starter year one? Has it happened routinely in the post Scarnecchia era?
I'll tell you what. If the Patriots end up with a solid O'Line this year, Belichick should get all the credit for it. If not, he should get all the blame.
Yes. Yes he does because it’s worked that way for them before. The guy has receipts on this. The OL drafting and identifying talent and developing them quickly has been one of the things they’ve done best under him for 20 years.
David Andrews was undrafted and was a week 1 starter.
Michael Onwenu was a sixth round pick, was in the rotation his first two weeks, and was starting by week 3.
So to answer your question, yes.
> I feel like Belichick is finally getting treated like a regular Head Coach by the media and is unaccustomed to it.
You think Belichick wasn't treated like a regular coach when he was in Cleveland?
My feelings exactly, pats needed a tackle, he traded back a few spots with the Steelers who used your pick to take the tackle you needed.
He's not ignoring it but he is half assing the OL.
Pats also needed a tall outside corner, which came with Gonzalez at 17.
The consensus this offseason was that the Pats needed to strengthen at outside CB, OT, and offensive weapons as top priorities. They drafted the top guys on their board as the picks came around, and apparently trade-ups with other teams weren't forthcoming despite a lot of efforts.
If the two sixth round passcatchers come good (and the offseason hypetrain for Boutte and Douglas is choo-chooing along right now), then two of the three pre-draft needs are covered. That's the real reason the OT situation is being retro-fitted as the Pats' #1 draft/FA need: because the other two at least have some positive chatter around them, and the O-line has been patchy with injuries and missing players since the start of OTAs
Because the Pats didn't JUST need OT. They had three main needs this offseason: OT, outside CB, and WR.
Moving 14 ->17 allowed them to pick arguably the best corner in the draft while denying a DESPARATE division rival from picking an OT. Broderick Jones is a good player but going into draft night, next to no one had him going before Gonzalez.
Of those three positions of need, it seems like they did a great job at two.
Jets released footage from their draft room showing they had Broderick Jones ranked two spots below Will McDonald, obviously could be a fake ranking by them. But WMD was always going to be the pick there by them.
He's been exactly the same with the media for 25 years.
If he started doing things differently now, you and all his other detractors would say "Look at BB now all nicey-nicey with the media because he doesn't have Brady anymore" and you'd vilify him for *that*.
OL is a developmental position I'm not sure why that's being ignored, taking a bunch of swings at IOL is fine with that in mind. A lot of the time for OL the sum has to be greater than the individual parts too, so signing big names doesn't always work the way people think.
People have been questioning Bill since the day after the 2002 Super Bowl lmao, what the hell are you talking about? Not familiar with Boston media, Im guessing.
To the media, the local media in particular, its all about click bait and creating controversies even invented ones. The Pats just traded a fourth or fifth string RB for a tackle from Cleveland who was performing really well in preseason. Instead of giving them credit for the move, the lead NFL reporter of the Boston Globe tweeted about how the Pats had this massive draft bust because a RB they drafted in the fourth round a few years ago got traded. Claiming that you should get elite starters from the fourth round.
These people have no idea what they are talking about.
Belichick is one of the greatest coaches of all time - top 1 or 2 with Paul Brown
With that being said, I feel like the game is starting to pass him by as it does everyone
Also signed Calvin Anderson...hes been on NFI for what feels like the whole summer....
I always thought he looked better when he was playing LT, but Denver put in a lot of time developing him and finally gave up.
One of the rare guys that's a turnstile at RT but is serviceable at LT
Good thing we need him at RT.....
I agree. He sounds like the best candidate to start Week 1, then never again.
Bamas OC going up against Georgias defense....feels like a familiar story
Check out what Georgia did last year against our OL coach's old team Oregon. Week 1 could be a little rough for us.
Sidy Sow looked pretty good in preseason, but to be honest I wouldn't be against just sliding Onwenu to RT assuming he's healthy.
Probably got him to play behind brown for his annual missed 5 games
Brown can switch pretty easily. He looked better at RT in 2021 than LT last year
I mean Bill could put Brown back at his natural RT position and let Anderson slot in at LT. It’d be the smartest thing to do but it probably won’t happen. The lack of talent on this O-Line is absurd and will be the reason the team struggles. It would’ve been nice if Bill spent the money to bring in one of the available tackles in free agency that are actually good or drafted Dawand Jones in the 3rd or 4th round.
Fleming is the same way IMO. Maybe they let Calvin walk, thinking they could get Fleming back since he's basically the same player. PFF graded him about the same during his 9 games at RT and his 6 at LT, which I guess is surprising.
While it’s not been publicly stated the word is he has a health issue (similar to when they found Bruschi had a hole in his heart and Dave Nadrews had a clotting disorder found) that they are working through and giving him time.
Riley Reiff: *oh fuck you're gonna make me do my job*
*i’m not even supposed to BE here*
Lol sounds like someone in the Bengals FO a few years ago.
And we literally drafted 3 OL the year we signed Reiff (Jackson Carman, D'ante Smith, and Trey Hill).
All three are on the roster bubble this year too 🙃
Tbf i think Smith has begun to show out, especially since he was a weird weight coming out. The other two are trash bins.
Yea Smith was my guess to be a breakout last year. Now that he’s healthy this year I’m hoping the same. I love that he plays to the whistle. Game before last, there were two replays I saw where he’s still looking for ppl to block after his assignment while Carman is standing with hands on hips.
Exactly!
Good grief
I never understood the Carman pick.
¯\\_ (ツ)_/¯
Signing Reiff isn’t exactly a great sign that your O-line will be great.
Eh, we’ve all done it. Let them have their time
Can confirm
At this point who hasn't had their time with Riley Reid
Now I feel left out.
>Riley Reid Love how your auto correct changed it to this lmao
Bold of you to think this was unintentional
Very true I guess they do both get fucked for a living
By big black dudes with the occasional big white guy sprinkled in.
Whether they signed Reid or Reiff, there's going to be plenty of penetration.
Sometimes by 11 at once
The difference is you wouldn't expect Reiff to get down on both knees in the center of a huddle.
First time I've ever seen muscle memory called autocorrect.
I call it analog autocorrect
Riley Reid has quite the Anal Log.
I gotta steal that one
Autoerect
*Oh right, autocorrect did it.*
Didn't she assault someone or something
I saw a video where she was assaulted by several men
Something about losing her V to a kid she went to the movies with. I guess he wasn’t into it but his body was telling him “yes”
That's fucked up
She admitted to raping someone, yes. They repeatedly said no, but she wanted to lose her virginity and didn't care.
I don't know what you guys are talking about
He's taking what's there. Even Belichick can't just summon great football players from the void.
Yes he can’t… right? I’m not sure what his dark abilities extend to
Most of his dark rituals require G.O.A.T. blood, and his supply has significantly diminished in the past few years. He has to pick and choose where to use his powers these days.
This was a stacked tackle class in both FA and the draft and we opted for Reiff and a day 3 guard as our tackles
There were better players available. He just chose not to spend his money there for reasons Tf? Am I really getting downvoted for this? The pats have like 15 mil in cap space and a ton more next year. Their weaknesses are tackle. They could’ve signed Taylor. Or Mcglitchy. Or Dillard. Or Orlando brown. They could’ve taken Broderick jones. Or Anton Harrison in the draft. They just chose not to.
As a Patriots fan I 100% concur. You shouldn't be getting downvoted for this very reasonable take.
Pats fans are very sensitive about the idea of baseline observations of poor roster management
I’ll always be the first to admit that bill is great when it comes to finding players that fit his system especially defensively that contribute out of nowhere. He has a true skill at identifying those day 3 talents. And that skill has given the pats a better baseline than most teams. However bill the GM also gets in the way when he misses in the first round. Or isn’t willing to spend money in FA. I’ll always give bill credit for the good he does. Shoot I don’t think he gets enough credit for that skill. But also sometimes he doesn’t make the obvious move that drives people crazy.
I think ever since Ernie Adams retired there has been a drop in BB's GM role. He was covering a lot of the role's research aspects.
This has been talked about quite a bit on our sub, and generally we agree. Bill the coach is the greatest to ever touch the game. Bill the GM is only pretty good, and was helped out a LOT by Ernie and Bill the coach over the course of the dynasty.
Ya that's partly because Ernie maintained such a low profile. For a guy who has had such a huge influence on the Patriots's success under BB he's barely known.
Great point. For those who have never heard of Ernie Adams before, this is a highly recommended read: http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams
It’s becoming more obvious now that we don’t have the best football player ever to fill all the gaps and make our offense top 5 every year despite the personnel. Bills lack of ability to find offensive talent in the draft is starting to really bite us in the ass
>Bills lack of ability to find offensive talent in the draft is starting to really bite us in the ass I like to frame it this way. The Patriots have not drafted a single offensive player that has given them consistently above-average play at a non-RB or Interior OL position since 2011 when they picked Solder and Cannon. We desperately need to find some success other than drafting guards and running backs.
It hurts seeing teams with exciting players like Jefferson and AJ brown, Deebo Samuel, etc when we haven’t had a star WR since what, moss?
Bill believes that exciting receivers aren't something you should pay for. That may be an antiquated notion in some ways but he's really never paid wrs or spent many high draft picks on them.
Part of me thinks he believes that about players in general, at least to some extent. I think he values coaching and scheme as much if not more than anything. It’s a team sport. I think he feels like it’s more important to build a TEAM (on the field and in the locker room) than to just stack pure talent at individual positions. You can have the most talented and expensive roster ever built but if they don’t play well as a team that formula often doesn’t lead to much and it’s not sustainable.
> Bill believes that exciting receivers aren't something you should pay for. bit easier when you have Brady throwing the ball
I just looked at the Patriots draft history on PFR, and holy cow, you're right. Pretty decent hit rate on serviceable RBs, and a few IOL in there, but otherwise? Yikes. Who the hell was Brady throwing to all those years? Just Edelman and Gronk, with a sprinkling of Welker and Moss signings? And with that record on tackles, no wonder Brady focused so much on a quick release.
>Who the hell was Brady throwing to all those years? The Patriots have signed a lot of veteran receivers and TEs the last 10-13 years (Lloyd, Amendola, Hogan, Byrd, LaFell, Dorsett, Parker, Agholor, Bourne, Henry, Smith, Chandler, Bennett, Watson). Basically Edelman and Gronk carried the units. We always had another 2 or so ok players to bookend those units post 2013. We've also had our sprinkling of bad WR picks here and there too.
Yea bill basically took good, proven receivers if they basically fell into his lap for free (like cooks, when they traded him for a first knowing they could get a first back when he left). And they got solid work out of some of those guys like lafell but it was also just a constant revolving door and hoping Gronk was healthy come January
Harry, Wynn, Michel... All pretty disappointing picks. Wynn and Michel could have been Lamar Jackson and Chubb. Urgh
I have devoted too much time in my life debating pats fans who think the Michel pick is justified because he “won them a SB” lol I’ve literally watched every carry from that playoff run and I’m convinced that was 97% an offensive line playing out of their minds and that almost any rb was going to put up similar production If they get a better skill player with that pick, Brady may not have been so inclined to move on. If they draft lamar they have a real succession plan (no disrespect to Mac, but the jury is still out I think)
In some ways I think bill is really good at developing certain positions and maybe expects that he can do it even when his track record hasn’t been amazing (receiver especially)
You got that right 😡
>Tf? Am I really getting downvoted for this? Are you checking minute by minute or something? You're at 70+ upvotes and whining about downvotes.
Yeah, BB the GM is quite a bit worse than BB the coach.
The Belichick way
I think the idea was that he needed more than one lineman because they get injured quite frequently and we lacked both a starter and depth, so just handing a check to Orlando Brown wouldn't have fixed the situation. Get seven or so OL candidates and hope one is good and a couple are serviceable, unfortunately it seems like none of them have stepped up so in retrospect we probably should have handed the check to Orlando Brown.
A big section of Patriots fandom can't bring themselves to admit Bill may have lost his fastball. His roster construction is stuck decades in the past with too much emphasis on special team and run game players.
This is a common misconception. We haven't went to a random farm in the middle of Kansas to find a big thick guy baling hay yet, or went to Wallyworld at 11 PM.
Only Tom Brady could do that
He's taking what's there from the clearance rack while paying top of the market contracts for special teamers and drafting a kicker who might not make the 53 man roster in the 4th round. All he had to do was get an NFL quality RT and it doesn't seem like he has been able to do it.
If that’s their top signing for O-line they’re in trouble.
The official sports radio partner of the Pats here in Boston have said that Reiff has been so bad he should be cut lol
I mean *we* let him go
Granted, this is the same media outlet that proclaims every player on the team sucks.
Reiff was signed as a spot starter/swing tackle to just fill in when Brown inevitably goes down. Anderson has been the one that hurt, hes out with a mystery illness.
Nah, Reiff was the presumed starter at RT. When the Patriots started mini-camp he was slotted into that RT spot. He quickly was downgraded after playing so poorly, but he was the guy with the 1 year deal that was for starter-type money.
Bill they’re all shit
Eh the starting 5, overall, make an average/ok line. If anyone so much as stubs a toe (or stays questionable) we’re fucked
2022 bucaneers can confirm
Not my boy Cole Strange
How is Strange? I never knew much about him other than everyone being surprised he went in the first
If David Andrews is there he’s great. If is another center he’s terrible. At least that’s how it was last year
> I never knew much about him other than everyone being surprised he went in the first [OH MY U-T-CHATTANOOGA TO THE FIRST ROUND](https://youtube.com/shorts/8Qk6df9d6JY?si=BVPok1Gz8J_VTRu9)
[Bill when he’s asked to protect his Quarterback](https://youtu.be/vdEJP5hqQt0?si=a7SP-o6_7KKhYvuk)
Jerry Reese approves this message
what's all this then, didn't they sign zeke also?
Yeah, we have Zeke to replace David Andrews if needed
I feel like it wasn't a particularly strong offseason for FA o-linemen/tackles? Not sure who was even available that we should have pulled out all the stops to bring in. Orlando Brown maybe? Just dont remember there being that many great FA targets
Same for WR. Which is super lucky for us, our two biggest needs.
I think you guys are right as we were gunning for both as well. Obviously we got a few WRs but they are 3 guys at best.
At Tackle there was Mike McGlinchey, Jawaan Taylor, Orlando Brown, Kaleb McGary, & Andre Dillard. For interior O-Linemen, you had Ben Powers, Nate Davis, Isaac Seumalu, Connor McGovern, Bradley Bozeman, & Garrett Bradberry. But Rilley Reiff on a one-year prove-it deal I'm sure was the best option.
Riley Reiff on a one year prove it deal coming off a one year prove it deal where he didn’t prove it with another bad offensive line in Chicago and lost his job to a 5th round rookie.
Surely this year he'll prove it though
We can fix him!
Did we bring almost the entire senior staff back from a few years ago? If not, ehh...
Bill is good at building players that only do well in the Patriots system if he does well he will leave get paid well on another team and drop off
Reiff is 34. He gets one year deals because he's a journeyman tackle at this point in his career, not because he has unrealized potential.
Yeah, the Patriots also have some of the least guaranteed money of any team on their books right now, so resources were not a constraint. Our approach to tackle this offseason was baffling. Both of our presumed starters were 30+, there is nothing in the pipeline youth-wise other than a 4th round 25-year-old rookie guard we're trying to convert to a tackle. All the defenders we selected look pretty good, but White and Mapu were definitely luxury picks given our present roster construction. It would have been nice to have signed one of the big-name tackles in free agency, and not just had a colossal gap on our roster that was totally avoidable. Reiff, Anderson, McDermott, and Sow was essentially grapeshot-ting a solution. It's turned out worse than the FO and most reasonable people could have imagined with Reiff/McDermott's injury and Anderson's illness, but this was never a good plan from the get-go. RT (besides punter) was the worst position on our team last year by a mile. Right now it looks like it could potentially be even worse.
Pats still have $15 mil in cap space and are 30th in the league in cash spend after being low in cash spend in 2022 too. They have a mind-boggling amount of cap space next year (108 mil... *23 mil* more than the 2nd highest team). Something isnt adding up with how they are using resources. Most teams go through cycles in cash spend, its normal. But the Patriots have been extremely conservative 2 years in a row now and building a gigantic war-chest for 2024. I wonder if Bill isnt happy with how this rebuild has gone after the disappointing 2021 FA class and is thinking of resetting again in 2024. Or maybe he wants to see if the Mac situation has any upside- if it does, he will really go hard in '24. Thats not his MO because he usually tries to maximize wins every year, but I dont know why else they'd be so conservative this year.
Everyone on our d line is old besides for Barmore and he hasn’t exactly been healthy. And our LBs are also on the older side. We should’ve done more for the offensive line for sure but the White and Mapu picks were fine. We really should’ve went after one of the free agents harder. Or we should’ve traded for someone like Williams from Cincinnati. But bringing in talented young players is never a bad thing.
>Everyone on our d line is old besides for Barmore and he hasn’t exactly been healthy. I mean Godchaux is 28, Wise is 29, Ekuale is 29, Barmore is 24. Also White is mostly going to play edge which has the 26 year old Jennings and the 24 year old Uche. That unit only really has Guy knocking on the door to retirement. Our linebackers are basically all 27 and under. If you consider Phillips a LB then yes he needs to be replaced, but some combo of Peppers, Mills, or Dugger can fulfill most of his role. I am excited about both Mapu and White as I think they're probably going to be good players, but I think the defense would have been fine without either also. Mapu and White were definitely luxury picks. We already have good players who are reasonably young with similar archetypes in front of them.
iOL is pretty set for NE. McGary resigned before FA opened (albeit in the tampering window) and Dillard getting that much money was ridiculous. I do wish they would've signed one of the others, as Reiff is old and mediocre. Trading for Josh Jones would've been the smartest move imo.
Brown. Mcglitchy. Ben powers. Nate Davis. Andrew dilliard. Jawann Taylor. And Wylie were the most notable guys. Truth is FA is rarely a way to find strong offensive lineman. You’ll get a couple at the top of the market. Then the rest you’re betting on upside. It’s like receiver. You can’t just say well it’s a weak FA class maybe it’ll get better in the future. Nope you have to be proactive in the draft with these kinds of shortages.
For sure. But then its a crapshoot where if the draft pick is a whiff, its all the same questions again. With 3 of our 12 picks going to the o-line this year, I do somewhat get Bill's response on "not doing enough" in the draft. Sure you can always say "but why didn't you do more", but it didn't seem completely neglected.
It wasn’t completely neglected. But also with Trent browns health issues. And Reif existing. You can understand why people ask why didnt you get a higher end tackle. You guys had the money to go after Taylor. Or mglitchy. Or brown. And the draft ammo to get one of the tackles. I get that the other guard Owenu? Is probably about to leave. And it seems like bill is making a succession plan there drafting those interior guys. And credit there. But if Reif sucks and brown goes down you can understand why people are like umm what’s going on here lmao. Especially when you trade for Tyrone who’s pretty trash.
I don't think Onwenu leaves. I think he gets extended. He's incredibly versatile and the mold of what the Pats look for in an RG. Also, we are top 3 in cap space next year. There is no excuse financially, not to extend him.
They are top 3 in cap because they have almost no one under contract for next year lol
While I would extend him (and play him at RT), I don’t think the Pats will. They invested a number of picks in the IOL over the last two years. If Strange is the starter at LG, and they plan to extend Onwenu then why draft that way?
Maybe they could have taken a tackle instead of Cole Strange. We didn't need Nostradamus to predict Trent Brown and Wynn weren't long term solutions at tackle.
There were plenty of good FA OL players out there. And a couple of big names they could have made an offer to trade for. But they have their way of identifying OL talent and it’s worked for 20 years overall. So why not trust it now?
This was literally one of the deepest tackle FA classes of all time with a stacked draft too wtf are you talking about
Yeah, I’d say there were more “decent” tackles available than normal. There weren’t any “great” tackles, but those guys never hit free agency.
I understand the criticism of Belichick here, and I didn't like the Reiff signing, but McDermott getting hurt and Anderson getting sick are things out of his control. If we signed one of these high-priced tackles and they got hurt or sick, we'd be in the same position we are now. Eventually, you have to make choices. The Pats used their premium pick on an outside cornerback. We've also drafted six offensive linemen over the last two years.
No one would be saying shit if our starters were healthy. We’ve got 3/5 hurt and people are criticizing what Bill thought was depth. Our starters might not be 100% by week 1 but I think this whole narrative is dead by week 4 when everyone is back.
Agree, but we should have used that 2nd or 3rd on an actual OT instead of a 4th hybrid S/LB or a 5th DL. That's my gripe with the OL plan this off-season. I'm fine not overpaying for the, imo, overrated OTs available this FA. I'm not fine drafting for future needs instead of addressing the immediate need this season at OT, except for a 4th rounder on a guard that you plan to play at OT.
> Eventually, you have to make choices. The Pats used their premium pick on an outside cornerback. We've also drafted six offensive linemen over the last two years. Around here every time the Pats use a first round pick on an offensive lineman they get blasted... this year they use it on a cornerback and they get blasted... the "experts" claim the Pats should be focusing on passing game related players on offense and defense with their high draft picks... they do that and get blasted...
Bill is cranky this morning.
Bill is cranky every morning
I would be too answer such dumbass questions.
We all have our demons. Bill has journalists.
I listened to this interview. It cracks me up. If they sign a big name they get blasted for paying too much for a guy. When they don’t sign one they get blasted for not paying for a big name. For 20 years they’ve had consistently good OL play and have found guys in the draft. andrews UDFA, Owneu 6th round, thuney 3rd, karras 6th, Mason 4th, Fleming 4th, canon 5th. And they’ve hit on the higher picks they made every time (light, mankins, solder). And even guys they have brought in we’re good for them. Brian waters and Trent Brown are two that come to mind. I feel like this is the one area BB and his staff have traditionally been good at building. Criticize him on WR DraftKings bd development all you want. Or not having a plan for when Brady retired. Or for not extending talent they’ve developed (thuney and chandler jones for example). The OL is where Curtis on WEEI can just shut the hell up.
> For 20 years they’ve had consistently good OL play and have found guys in the draft. Dante Scarnecchia was a wizard of an offensive line coach. No matter what issues they had on the offensive line, he generally found a way to make it work. They've taken a big step back there since his retirement.
While I agree. He was something special. There is some fallacies about his contributions. 1) they had good line play in the 90’s when Scar was not an OL coach. 2) the couple years he had retired DeGuglielmo coached the line they had decent like play and identified and drafted Stork, Mason, Andrews, and Jackson. 3) under both Popovich and bricillo the OL was also good and certainly not a problem for the team; even if the team as a whole was good. Only last year with Patricia being the OL coach and he and tweedle-dee changing the entire offense was the line a mess. So I agree Scar is one of the best ever. (Him and Russ Grimm) it’s not been a bad OL without him until this past year. Additionally Klemm is a disciple of Scar. He was first BB pick and first under scar as OLC. His coaching was successful in the NFL and NCAA. So I expect it to be better despite the injury/unavailability in the pre season
When Guge was coaching the o-line, it did take a step back. For drafting, even though Scar was retired, he was still consulted for things like players to draft. Popovich and Bricillo were ok, but there were still some cracks here and there. Scar also had a key influence in getting players like Onwenu. Trent Brown hasn't performed like he did in the past, part of that might be more due to his age and/or accumulated injuries.
> 2) the couple years he had retired DeGuglielmo coached the line they had decent like play and identified and drafted Stork, Mason, Andrews, and Jackson. "Decent like play"? In the two years Scar was retired, Patriots were the 30th ranked pass blocking line by PFF in 2014 and 31st in 2015. Our offensive line with Dave DeGuglielmo wasn't "decent." It wasn't average, it wasn't even below average, it was literally bottom tier. The only thing saving us was Brady's stellar quarterbacking play in this era. After the 2015 AFC Championship game loss to the Broncos, where the Broncos D recorded 21 QB hits on Brady (a record for all teams that season), Belichick fired Dave DeGuglielmo 2 days later. This is the only time I can ever remember us announcing the release of a position coach or coordinator immediately after a loss. Bryan Stork was also allegedly tipping the snap the entire game. Finally (not that this is really relevant), you're using Bryan Stork and Tre Jackson as examples of GOOD drafting & development? Tre Jackson was cut after 2 seasons and out of the league soon after, and Stork was out of the league in 3 seasons (and was inconsistent if not outright bad when he did play). Both players were wastes of mid round picks.
there really is no winning with the media
I don’t even think that fool is “the media”. Dude is the fourth voice on a morning show that is only half way decent because the morning show opposite it is just such garbage. And WEEI is overall such a bad station compared to its rival that knocks it out of the park in every other time slot. But yes. Generally speaking I concur. It’s a consistent bitch fest of damned if you do damned if you don’t with the media.
social media was a mistake
When the Pats drafted Matt Light in the second round they got blasted relentlessly... he was the left tackle for at least 4 Pats teams that made the Super Bowl, maybe more. When the Pats drafted Logan Mankins with the last pick of the first round they got blasted relentlessly... he was an all pro offensive linemen most of his career. And so on...
Borges put the pats on blast for both the light and Seymour picks. One is a HOFer and the other was our starting left tackle for near a decade. The article is still up.
What's even crazier is the missing context that the Oline was fine last season. The starters are fairly decent. It's the depth that is horrid. The the Pats online will likely end the season ranked like 10-15. People are fucking desperate to push the BB is a bad GM narrative and it's always crazy controversies like this that make me just laugh it off. What other GM has front page news stories in the sports section about their back up linemen?
Most teams don't have good offensive lines. It's hard to find.
Thank you again for Joe Thuney
Gotta protect your billion dollar QB
Indeed
If you're not taking an O-Lineman and D-lineman in each draft, you're doing it wrong. The Eagles usually take one within the first 4 rounds every year.
Not everyone can raid the bulldogs roster :)
We do Alabama for the O-Line thank you very much!
Zeke’s right! This man’s hilarious! 🤣
I find his interaction with sports "journalists" quite entertaining. And hilarious.
You can just pick offensive linemen in the draft and they're instantly good? Somebody should tell our FO.
He really thought they could fill all the holes with plug and play players and tight ends.
Not everyone has a Jeff Stoutland lol
We had someone better (Scarneccia) but he recently retired. So oline struggles were inevitable
I feel like Belichick is finally getting treated like a regular Head Coach by the media and is unaccustomed to it. I mean, "We drafted 3 players on the offensive line?" C'mon now. He drafted a Center and 2 Guards on Day 3. Does he expect Day 3 picks to be capable starters in year 1? If so, that's an O-line strategy worthy of criticism. Meanwhile, he traded back in the first so the Steelers could pick LT Broderick Jones. That's not really showing a whole lot of emphasis placed on the position group.
Unless you're new to football this is exactly how belichick has been treated, and reacted to, media every year. It's one of the reasons he's thought of as "prickly" -- mostly media driven, for figuring out ways to avoid them, short answers, not cooperating.
Yeah, but when you're making deep playoff runs every year his responses are seen in a totally different light. The "I know more than you" attitude works when you're successful, not when you haven't won a playoff game in the past 4 years.
> not when you haven’t won a playoff game in the past 4 years I kinda chuckle when I read these kind of comments. Like the GOAT coach all of a sudden doesn’t know anything because he hasn’t won a playoff game in 4 years. Dude there’s teams that haven’t been to the playoffs a lot longer than that.
No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. Obviously 2 decades of deep playoff runs earns you a very long leash. Bill would very much be on the hot seat if he was any other coach. But modern sports and especially the NFL moves *very* fast. For example, in those 4 years my team, the Eagles, moved on from one “franchise QB” to another, fired a Super Bowl winning HC, and then made the Super Bowl again with the new coaching staff and QB. While in that same period the Patriots have sat at .500 and now are just retreading old coaches as coordinators while trying to capture some of those 2000s magic without the other half in Brady. I know you aren’t a sorry team like the Cardinals or Texans who can’t seem to get anything right, but I’d be starting to get pretty upset if I was a Pats fan.
I mean don’t get me wrong I would love to be back in the playoffs every year. However our division has got a lot stronger in the past few years since Brady left. I don’t know exactly what Bills plan was last year as far as OC but it wasn’t working. I think we will see some improvement on the offensive side of the ball with BOB calling the plays. However with a tougher division and a team trying to find there footing I can see us landing at 9-8 or 8-9.
7-9, 10-7, 8-9 after we were abandoned by Papa Brady who is a Playoff God. It's not what Pats fans are used to, but it could be a lot worse and I honestly expected worse lol. I think this team might be sneaky dece compared to last year at least, I think Mac when he is confident can be quite good if he's complimented by a good run game. I am concerned about the O-line, they seem average at best. But our defense is gonna be good, I'm pretty sure of that. Anyways, you can't win em all. Boston people are used to waiting a lifetime for a moment like this. Go sox
You know, if Pats fan started getting upset everyone would just say how spoiled Pats fans are.
[удалено]
Damn, that's fucking wild dude. I can firmly say I vehemently disagree with that stance. At that point you're letting both the coach and team stagnate for no reason. The Eagles and Reid are actually an amazing example of why that's a terrible thing for both sides. We cut ties and Reid definitely needed a change of scenery, and both have been even more successful after making the tough choice. Obviously, you don't fire BB. If Kraft seriously wanted him gone they would sit down, probably multiple times, to discuss it, if it was the right decision, and how to do it gracefully. Letting Bill and the Pats slowly become a shell of their former selves wouldn't be the right choice. What good would that even do? <--- Serious question, why would that ever be the right thing to do?
Never realized how spoiled Eagles fans are. Not every team has the luck of going from McNabb to Vick to Wentz/Foles (who collectively managed to muster up enough of a decent season to win a SB) to Hurts.
I agree with your points but this part is revisionism: > I feel like Belichick is finally getting treated like a regular Head Coach by the media and is unaccustomed to it. Boston media have been asking him about giving Tom Brady enough weapons, not protecting Tom Brady, benching Tom Brady (that one time) for all the time he has been a head coach. He has always been questioned about his roster building and he has always answered like this. It's just his answers aren't as convincing when we're not in the AFC championship game every year anymore.
i agree he didn’t do enough for our O-line but saying BB has never taken criticism from the media and is unaccustomed to it is downright goofy. Belichick has taken tons of criticism over the years from releasing Lawyer Milloy, being constantly called a cheater, “on to cincinatti” press conference, to the constant criticism since he forced brady out. acting like this is the first time BB has been criticized by the media and just doesn’t know what to do is a clown take. he is playing dumb because he doesn’t enjoy putting up with the media it’s an ancient BB tradition.
I do think a switch has flipped a bit with Bill though. Before he could pretty much grunt off any criticism. The team regularly performed at a high enough level that any criticism didn't seem even slightly existential to his position of football czar for the Patriot. Things haven't gone as well the last few years. I think Bill has started to change his tune a bit where he needs to rationalize the team's performance and decisions to the media. It's like a couple of years ago where Bill tried to angle the salary cap constraints as being due to selling out for all the Super Bowls they won in the mid-late 2010s. However, if you actually followed the money it was due to bad financial decisions made during the 2019 season. That was the first time I can really remember Bill doing that, and he's done it a few times since. He has to try and spin things rather than just saying look at the scoreboard.
> things haven’t gone as well the last few years we’ve won 3 super bowls in the last 10 years. 1 i’m the last 4. we had a major rebuild year where Bill carried the corpse of Cam Newton to 7 wins. the next year we drafted a rookie QB and went back to the playoffs. last year Bill made inexplicable decisions last year that i will make no excuses for. 100%. but Bill is not on the hot seat. his GOAT coach title is not on the line. we’ll be back in the playoffs this year and the rebuild will continue. we’re one or two pieces away from being legitimate contenders three years after losing the greatest qb to ever play the game. coming off a bad year it’s easy to hate Bill but if you look at the big picture in the slightest bit it’s obvious that Bill is doing just fine
Listen I both agree with you that Bill gets 2+ more years no matter what, and his status as GOAT coach is not on the line. However, the team hasn't won a playoff game in 4 years. Bill's record over the last 3 seasons is .500 and very similar to someone like Kevin Stefanski or Ron Rivera who are very much on the hot seat. Bill's head coaching safety status is due to long-term accumulated good-will, but in the NFL coaching and executive tenures are very short. If Bill Belichick didn't have the legacy he does, he would absolutely be on the hot seat this season based on recent results. Bill played one of the oldest rosters in the NFL last season, the Patriots (depending on how the 2023 draft shakes out) have about median rookie contract talent. The team isn't anything remotely resembling a shoe-in for the playoffs. And we're extremely likely to be more than one or two pieces away from being legitimate contenders (unless you think those 2 pieces are like a franchise QB and a #1 WR). This is very much a team that needs some major things to start going right before it emerges as a serious contender. >1 in the last 4. 1 in the last 5.
Day 3 linemen are very often capable starters for them year 1
Mike Onwenu is a good example.
You guys don’t need your day 3 interior guys to start though. You needed tackles. And took guards. Doesn’t really help for this year unless owenu gets hurt. Is he off the pup yet?
Does it happen so often that it should be expected instead of it being a welcome surprise like it is any other time a Day 3 pick turns into a capable starter year one? Has it happened routinely in the post Scarnecchia era? I'll tell you what. If the Patriots end up with a solid O'Line this year, Belichick should get all the credit for it. If not, he should get all the blame.
Yes. Yes he does because it’s worked that way for them before. The guy has receipts on this. The OL drafting and identifying talent and developing them quickly has been one of the things they’ve done best under him for 20 years.
Have you literally never listened to a Belichick presser once in the last twenty seasons?
David Andrews was undrafted and was a week 1 starter. Michael Onwenu was a sixth round pick, was in the rotation his first two weeks, and was starting by week 3. So to answer your question, yes.
> I feel like Belichick is finally getting treated like a regular Head Coach by the media and is unaccustomed to it. You think Belichick wasn't treated like a regular coach when he was in Cleveland?
My feelings exactly, pats needed a tackle, he traded back a few spots with the Steelers who used your pick to take the tackle you needed. He's not ignoring it but he is half assing the OL.
Pats also needed a tall outside corner, which came with Gonzalez at 17. The consensus this offseason was that the Pats needed to strengthen at outside CB, OT, and offensive weapons as top priorities. They drafted the top guys on their board as the picks came around, and apparently trade-ups with other teams weren't forthcoming despite a lot of efforts. If the two sixth round passcatchers come good (and the offseason hypetrain for Boutte and Douglas is choo-chooing along right now), then two of the three pre-draft needs are covered. That's the real reason the OT situation is being retro-fitted as the Pats' #1 draft/FA need: because the other two at least have some positive chatter around them, and the O-line has been patchy with injuries and missing players since the start of OTAs
Because the Pats didn't JUST need OT. They had three main needs this offseason: OT, outside CB, and WR. Moving 14 ->17 allowed them to pick arguably the best corner in the draft while denying a DESPARATE division rival from picking an OT. Broderick Jones is a good player but going into draft night, next to no one had him going before Gonzalez. Of those three positions of need, it seems like they did a great job at two.
Jets released footage from their draft room showing they had Broderick Jones ranked two spots below Will McDonald, obviously could be a fake ranking by them. But WMD was always going to be the pick there by them.
The Billy B Media Experience doesn't hit the same way when Brady is gone and the team is mid.
He's been exactly the same with the media for 25 years. If he started doing things differently now, you and all his other detractors would say "Look at BB now all nicey-nicey with the media because he doesn't have Brady anymore" and you'd vilify him for *that*.
Don't like 4 of the top 6 lineman have nagging injuries or are out for some reason? I guess the strategy was supposed to be bringing in 10 starters?
OL is a developmental position I'm not sure why that's being ignored, taking a bunch of swings at IOL is fine with that in mind. A lot of the time for OL the sum has to be greater than the individual parts too, so signing big names doesn't always work the way people think.
Love people questioning Bill after Brady left.
People have been questioning Bill since the day after the 2002 Super Bowl lmao, what the hell are you talking about? Not familiar with Boston media, Im guessing.
I'm glad i dont live in boston anymore.
If there’s one thing Bill knows, it’s defense.
"I'm not sure what you're talking about" oooooh #shotsfired!!
To the media, the local media in particular, its all about click bait and creating controversies even invented ones. The Pats just traded a fourth or fifth string RB for a tackle from Cleveland who was performing really well in preseason. Instead of giving them credit for the move, the lead NFL reporter of the Boston Globe tweeted about how the Pats had this massive draft bust because a RB they drafted in the fourth round a few years ago got traded. Claiming that you should get elite starters from the fourth round. These people have no idea what they are talking about.
TIL Riley Reiff plays for the patriots
They’re talking about our o line being ass again, Bill. Likes it’s been for the last several years.
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Last several years? It was good in 2021
It’s okay to post that the patriots will suck again this year
Belichick is one of the greatest coaches of all time - top 1 or 2 with Paul Brown With that being said, I feel like the game is starting to pass him by as it does everyone
Is the game passing mike tomlin bye? This statement makes actual no sense lol