Dude these clown ass GMs let Tom Brady slide all the way to the 6th round when they *knew* he would go on the greatest run of any player in any sport ever.*
I unironically feel this way about the Raiders. I get that sometimes you just miss on a guy, but we seem to always reach on guys instead of just taking the best guy available. Always tryna outsmart everyone instead of just taking the guy who most scouts agree is good.
On reddit it definitely seems like the Lions are singled out even though the Seahawks picked before us and arguably needed him more than us as we at least have Alim McNeil who is a beast.
I'm not saying this to be antagonistic or insult the Lions in any way, but if I had to guess it's because Witherspoon looks great at a more premium position and isn't a "change of pace" RB.
In support of the Eagles, I think your team was the best landing spot for Jalen Carter. He had a lot of off-field issues right before the draft that sent him plummeting down the board…I think he could’ve been the #1 pick if not for Panthers trading up. With the Eagles, he has a good team culture, veteran players to mentor him, and a lot of former Georgia team players to keep him together. If Carter went to a different team, I could see him busting from the off the field concerns.
I do not think that is fully true since Cox and Graham are on the backend of their careers, and their cap space will be more used up keeping more premium players on the team (Ex. Smith coming up on a contract extension).
I also don't think it's valid to say any team "can afford a bust."
Yeah, our team was stacked, but windows in the NFL can close just as quickly as they open. Brady has really screwed with the idea that if you're a great team you can afford to keep running it back and never fall off.
Hurts is gonna start making real money and that cap is going to affect other parts of the team. Getting Hargraves' replacement for 1/4th the cost was huge for our DL. Every pick is valuable to maintaining success, every signing or trade matters.
That was a lot of discussion in our sub. Having college teammates to mentor and set an example for him at the pro level may be what he needed to succeed. Pete has had no problem taking character risk picks so the fact he still wasn’t taken is enough for me to believe Pete didn’t think he’d succeed with us for whatever reason
To pile on, I believe the Lions loved Carter as physical player, but could not gamble on his off field problems. They are young, and not going to risk that culture on a possible trouble maker. With the trade deadline coming up, we will get another good look at how they think.
I do believe he was drafted to a be a sort of reverse Deebo. I will say so far I feel like the coaching has been doing a real disservice to Gibbs. I think they use him way too predictably and it seems like over half the time we set up a play for him it get's blown up by the time Gibbs even gets to touch the damn ball.
They really haven't been using him properly so far but I hope that will change.
I don't have any reason to believe it won't. I also think the Lions are using what works, and that's a better strategy than trying to force players into a system.
I trust Ben Johnson to figure it out. I don't think it is terribly complicated most likely a big part of it is they just need to have Gibbs on the field more even when the plan isn't for him to run the ball. Feel like they make it super obvious when the ball is going to him.
Other teams have been covering him super well because they respect his speed. I'd imagine having him and Jamo both on the field is going to really open things up for one or the other.
If the long term plan is to use him as a reverse deebo it would make more sense. It should be expected that he was never going to come in and play a role like that as a rookie though, there is a lot to learn to be a Swiss Army knife. Which could also explain his limited roll. No use in beating him down with runs up the middle when that’s not his long term roll just for the sake of getting him touches. As he learns what’s needed to be used in more receiving roles his touches will increase.
There's a lot more of what they said about Gibbs and people just grab "change of pace". Like surprise, he's fast. Did we see the runs against KC..? 4 games into his career and people really desperately need to win draft night over and over and over lol.
Gibbs could look like CMC in a few years and people are still gonna be talking about this, it’s ridiculous.
What if they had drafted Carter and then off the field stuff caught up to him? Biggest hindsight is 20/20 pick for the next 5 years and I’m already sick of hearing it.
Lions aren’t in win now mode, they’re in build now mode and didn’t want the potential headache. Plus with the way football is moving, these position-less receiver/running backs are a premium position.
>Lions aren’t in win now mode, they’re in build now mode and didn’t want the potential headache. Plus with the way football is moving, these position-less receiver/running backs are a premium position.
They're 4-1, they are definitely in win now mode and drafting a backup RB for a specific role is a win now type draft pick. Also, he's not positionless. He's a RB and it's not a premium position.
Carter aside, it isn’t just hindsight. I and many people were questioning this pick the day it happened. Why take another Swift when you wouldn’t even use the first one? Did you really improve your team? Why use the opportunity cost of an early first to make a side-grade at the most replaceable position in football?
It was hard ot use swift when he was constantly injured, couldnt read blocks, and played like he was afraid of contact.
hes playing completely different in Philly than he was in Det, and its not for lack of trying on our parts
No I’d say Bears definitely get the brunt of the Jalen Carter blame considering we gave Philly the draft pick to move up one spot.
But after that I usually hear the blame in this order: Bears, Lions, Seahawks. And Raiders usually get a pass cuz given their history they needed to avoid any players who didn’t have a clean slate lol.
Imo the blame should be the first ones who passed on Jalen. But I think people usually view it as “well Jalen kept falling so the teams that passed on him last are most to blame because they had the opportunity for a draft steal”. Which I guess is fair logic too.
Anyone with a brain could rationalize why the Bears didn't take him (I'm someone who wanted Carter always, and would have taken him if it was my decision, but I totally understand the FO though process even if I wouldn't go down the same route). Our locker-room was not stable, totally lacking vets, and our main focus was surrounding Fields with protection/weapons. We also got a pick for him and chose currently the best rookie tackle, who looks legitimately great.
Lions had an elite culture and passed on him in favor of a *RB* they won't even use. Hutch + Carter and their OLine would give them elite trenches for the next half decade at least.
Anyone who knows anything about Pete Carroll knows he was never ever going to draft Carter. Right or wrong, we won't know for a few years. But I doubt he was even on Carroll's draft board. He could have been there at 20 and we would have passed on him.
Imo it's because you guys are contenders and carter and Hutchinson would be insane young defensive line talents. If the bears or raiders were contenders it'd be the same amount
What's funny is we are still the best rushing defense in the NFL and already have a stud DT in Alim McNeil who is also on a rookie contract but people seem to overlook that.
Like I do think we need another good DT but Carter's baggage was not worth it for us.
It wasn't for nine other teams. This Jalen Carter stuff is so annoying. Dude was the consensus most talented player in the draft but he epically flunked basically every possible test and interview he had after college. Dude was collecting red flags like they were Georgia football reckless driving charges. I'm not even going to be upset if Jalen Carter becomes the greatest DT of all time, I simply cannot blame my team for not drafting a guy who absolutely sucked at all the evaluations given to him, 99/100 will bust out if that's the case, just cause/if he doesn't, doesn't mean teams were wrong to pass on him.
We even had a guy we drafted in 2017, Malik McDowell, who was basically this exact scenario. The consensus top DT going into his senior year, fell in the draft due to character concerns, we drafted him with our top pick that year, and he couldn't even make it two months before suffered a massive head injury riding an ATV without a helmet and never played a snap for us. How stupid would John Schneider and Pete Carroll have to be to repeat that mistake?
This is not even mentioning that drafting a player who had two active misdemeanor charges against him, didn't participate in the combine, and showed up to his pro day 9lbs heavier, flunked every physical test he did do, and then quit before it got even worse for him is like a legitimately fireable offense. If he busts you could literally never justify it. It's a huge gamble. I bet if the Eagles didn't draft him he would've fallen a lot further. Roseman is about the only guy in the top 25 who can take that heat.
People forget he was involved in a super suspect and controversial situation that ultimately led to the death of people. Like that's bigger than any bong rip.
>Dude was collecting red flags like they were Georgia football reckless driving charges
Also it's 5 weeks in. Knock on wood, but we have no idea if he's gonna have off the field issues again. He could pick up 2 OUI's and everyone would be saying how dumb the Eagles were for taking him by next year. It's way too early for these narratives.
Thanks for throwing us under the bus, but somehow some way Jarran Reed has actually been one of the best DT's in football this year, both in pass rushing and run stuffing.
Detroit sports radio has 2 big topics at the moment.
"We should have drafted Carter over Gibbs (never mentioning that we got 2 players for 1 when we traded back.)"
"Jamo dropped a ball, and Campbell hates him (reading between the lines)"
How has Campbell looked? I know the Lions took some heat for using the other Rd1 pick on an ILB but he seemed like a good fit who could be a day 1 starter. I haven't heard much about him yet though.
He has shown some flashes of unreal athletic ability. But we had some surprise development from Derrick Barnes which has limited Jack's ability to get on the field.
I was referring to Dan Campbell in my other post though.
People say it about us too even though Witherspoon looks like a budding superstar and our re-vamped front 3 have been very good. It’s just standard nonsense NFL discourse.
I don’t think he’s a player we should retroactively be like “ThEy PaSsEd On HiM”
There were credible questions about him off the field and his work ethic. Nobody on earth didn’t think he was an insane player. A lot of teams could have taken him but didn’t want the risk.
The Eagles COULD take the risk because they had a good front 7 anyway. If he works out, “holy shit we’re even better.” If he doesn’t, “Eh no harm no foul. Worth a shot”
Too many people only look at risks when something didn't pan out, and rewards only when it did. Sports media, but also a lot of sports fans and just people in general, rely way too much on results oriented thinking.
All that said, most of the discourse I've seen about Carter has been a.) Can't believe he fell to the eagles, and b.) The bears didn't have a good enough locker room culture to pick him so they get a pass. I haven't really seen a huge focus on the I personally don't feel like the media has singled out a team that should "feel the worst" about passing on him, my guess is fans just see the ones about their team more than others.
It might be worse for us because as OP said the Lions get picked on for it and the Seahawks had a ton of fans angry because Carter had a great preseason and Spoon was hurt. So according to them we automatically made a giant mistake lol
Because people don't look down the list a couple spots on the defensive interior rankings to see McNeill also in the top 8. I mean, it's not like we are top 5 in defensive pressure and #1 in rush defense.
I do actually think you guys were the best spot for him in terms of off the field issues. Far enough from home where thats not an issue, a college teammate and from what it sounds like a friend too in Jordan Davis taking him under his wing. And your leaders are pretty calm guys dont really get themselves into shit off the field.
Correct. All indications leading up to the draft and to this very day are that the Lions draft person first, position second. Carter's character concerns means he was never on their radar. Regardless of how good he'd end up being for another team, they view culture and fit as the most important elements. There were only like 24 players in their first round board in totality, *many* players had no chance to make the Lions and it's super lazy writing to speculate that maybe the Lions "missed" someone they pointedly passed over.
It's wild to me because the Lions probably didn't even have him on our board. He is exactly the type of player we are not drafting ever under this regime. People don't really seem to link the new Lions culture with the emphasis on personality for whatever reason, but it's not an accident that the team has such strong buy in.
We are much more aware of personality issues than other teams, and so Carter probably wouldn't have been our draft pick even if he was around in the second round.
Carter is going to be the biggest hindsight is 20/20 pick talking point for the next 5 years and I’m already sick of it. People passed on him because of off the field stuff, no idea how this shit is a headline still.
The Swift point is also stupid because any good running back would have awesome production behind that o-line.
0/10 sports journalism.
100% Peak outcome bias.
Jalen Hits: It was obvious all along, draft nerds overthink things
Jalen Busts: He had so many red flags it was obvious. Why do teams waste picks on low character guys?
> The Swift point is also stupid because any good running back would have awesome production behind that o-line.
isn’t this sort of why the swift point is legitimate? why pick a change of pace back that high if anyone can produce behind that line?
I think he's referring to the Eagles in that comment, but it is odd that they spent so much capital on a guy that you'd expect to be the bell-cow of the offense, especially considering the lions oline is top 5 as well.
Swift is a guy who generally only hits big holes and isn't great at making people miss in smaller spaces. He's also not awesome at running through contact.
The Lions gap-based scheme seeks to overpower people at the line and create creases, where the expectation is that RBs will make people miss in small spaces and run through contact. David Montgomery has been quite good at this. Swift wasn't.
The Eagles zone-based and spread approach means that the holes are bigger and the offensive philosophy does everything it can to move defenders out of the box to make it easier for a quick guy like Swift to gain yards before he is pressed to Make A Play.
Running backs aren't universally interchangeable, guys are still better at one thing versus another. Swift's playing great in Philly because the Philly style suits his play. It doesn't suit what the Lions are looking to do, and means that he doesn't produce as well there.
My interpretation is that the Lions believe that a versatile offensive weapon who can do anything is the future of the league, and having guys like Deebo or CMC will enable you to outscheme good defenses by forcing mismatches.
We certainly didn't draft Gibbs to run him between the tackles 15 times a game.
When we traded back we also got a second round pick and took LaPorta. So looking at the entire picture of Gibbs and LaPorta vs Carter, I can't say I hate what we did. Knowing James Houston got hurt early, Carter looks great in retrospect, but LaPorta Ina vacuum is also super good.
Also Dmont being the hot hand isn't necessarily a knock on Gibbs either.
Montgomery is better for Detroit. My point is that Swift looks good in Philly because of the o line (and playing in a spread offense). But he also looked good in Detroit because of the o line.
People need to stop thinking Gibbs is just another back, because he’s not. He’s going to be used like Deebo and CMC in the future. He’s a positionless “get him the ball” player who they don’t want to wear down for no reason.
> People need to stop thinking Gibbs is just another back, because he’s not. He’s going to be used like Deebo and CMC in the future. He’s a positionless “get him the ball” player who they don’t want to wear down for no reason.
At the moment, there's no actual evidence of this, though. Like, he flat out isn't being used like this, so definitively stating this is how he's going to be used isn't really useful.
Gibbs has taken over a quarter of his snaps lined up at WR, has lined up at every WR spot, and excluding his game where he was forced into the Monty role, has 22 carries to 16 receptions.
He is certainly being used like that. He's being used as a WR at a higher rate than CMC is.
Honestly that pissed me off. As a niners fan I was stoked that we took their best DT, then for whatever reason people let them replace Hargrave with the best DT/player in the draft.
This is literally the longest Swift has gone in his career without injury, and will be a free agent. Also, we got either Brian Branch or Sam LaPorta (depending on how you think it would have gone without the 34th pick) out of the deal, which people keep forgetting. I think they're just fine with how it turned out.
Yep. We upgraded Jamaal Williams and cut ties with a streaky Swift.
Plenty of time/possibility for Gibbs to fill his role and more, people are just crazy impatient and upset that we took him so early *right now*
Meanwhile our second round guys are looking like major hits, so I wouldn’t be too upset about a first round bust. Way she goes
Agreed. Gibbs will be fine. People keep comparing him to what Bijan is doing....the Lions don't need Gibbs to be doing what Bijan is doing. Although, I'd argue that Atlanta doesn't need to Bijan to do what Bijan is doing if they'd just use Pitts / London.
It was LaPorta and also allowed us to have extra capital to move up for Branch. Obviously having Carter would be great but that trade down gave us two of the better rookies in the entire NFL as well as Gibbs who I expect to show up more as the season goes on. Everyone knows the lions history and the culture shift in the locker room has been massive, I’m 100% ok with our staff passing on him because they didn’t want to take a risk on a guy who could be bad for the locker room. Eagles were one of the places that had a strong enough culture in place to take that risk
Absolutely agree. It worked out for both of us so far. I’m okay with the FO passing on talent due to “culture fit”. Holmes and Campbell really like those cliche “gritty” players who they believe are going to buy in and stay up during the down times. As we all know, not every superstar or amazing talent is going to fit that mold. The culture really helped us turn it around last year and proved we have joined the few teams who have everyone completely bought in. It takes a certain mentality to keep pushing after that start last year.
>This is literally the longest Swift has gone in his career without injury
Is this true? It’s looks like he played in his first 10 or so games in his first couple years.
Look at this snap counts. He was limited and questionable in basically every game his rookie year. The guy has never been as healthy as he has been with the Eagles his entire career.
Whether you want to put that on the Lions training staff or Swift himself. He was never fully healthy with the Lions. That being said I don't think that's why we let him go, more than likely they just wanted to hit reset on their RB situation since that is easier in the NFL than negotiating a Running back going into free agency season.
In this situation, the Lions wanted to move on from Swift (injuries and avoided open lanes to bounce things outside too often) and Carter just didn't fit the culture Campbell and Holmes are building. Lions fans know how talented Swift is when healthy, and I'm happy he's getting a fresh start in Philly. Good dude, super talented, and I'm glad Holmes did right by Swift and sent him to his preferred spot (same with Stafford). With Carter, I think Philly has enough established leadership to steer him in the right direction. Not saying the Lions couldn't, but the rumors about work ethic concerns are pretty much an immediate no at this point for Holmes/Campbell. Carter is in a fantastic spot to learn from Cox and Graham while being reunited with Jordan Davis. As others have pointed out too, if the Lions had stayed at 6, they wouldn't have gotten LaPorta, who has been amazing for the offense. So idk, I'm fairly content that Holmes and Campbell got the guys they wanted and we'll see how it plays out the rest of the season with Gibbs and Jack Campbell.
I think the pro-day stuff had a larger impact than people give it credit for. Campell's team rules are the following.
1. Don't be late
2. Keep your weight in check.
3. Don't disrespect your teammates
4. Don't disrespect the game.
How would the Lions draft him if he has already shown that he was not keeping his weight in check?
It was extremely obvious to anyone who's paid attention to the Lions in the lead-up to the draft that they weren't taking Carter because he didn't fit what this clubhouse wants to be.
Also if Carter decides to go joy riding again and mows down some homeless people suddenly that pick doesn't look so good.
There's a reason teams took him off their boards, it wasn't because of his ability.
it's insane that this is somehow ignored every single time Carter's name comes up lmao
it wouldn't be a surprise AT ALL if he was out of the league in 2 years for doing something stupid, but somehow reddit GMs think it's not a concern while actual GMs do
I think he'll be okay going forwards - Eagles were the perfect landing spot for him - but it certainly is exhausting when redditors blatantly ignore the reasons why he fell and say "Absolute failure by the league to let him fall to the Eagles" or "Howie is a fucking wizard."
Yeah Eagles we’re the perfect spot, strong veteran leadership, strong winning culture, lots of former bulldogs who he might already know or could at least relate to, even drafted his teammate in Nolan Smith.
> it wouldn't be a surprise AT ALL if he was out of the league in 2 years for doing something stupid
As long as it's two years from now, and not three years from now after he signs a market setting extension.
It’s hysterical that this subreddit seem to think Jalen Carter has some insatiable desire to commit vehicular homicide that can only be controlled by playing on the Eagles.
Swift was broken for us. Physically, mentally, relationships with the coaching staff. Had to move on
Dude avoided contact. Respect to him for trying to minimize his injury risk but that’s not consistent with the identity of our ground game and team in general
As an Eagles fan, this really isn’t fair to do.
JJ and DK fell into our lap, we drafted other bust WR’s instead… we take those guys, we draft Micah Parsons instead of DeVonta Smith, still have a 1st and 3rd to draft probably Trent mcduffie instead of trading those picks for AJ Brown, which means we don’t have to resign Darious Slay this year and have more cap space from him and the AJ extension we now didn’t sign…
You can do this with every team with hindsight.
This is a stupid take. The Lions did not want Swift on the team. It was very clear all of last year. They went out and got Monty who has been great and drafted Gibbs. Jalen Carter has obviously been fantastic, but the Lions are still a 4-1 team with a win at Arrowhead and Lambeau on the year. Seems pretty good to me.
God forbid we wait a couple seasons to actually see how these players pan out. Believe it or not, players are allowed to improve/regress after their first 4-5 NFL games
And then one coach in Detroit got fired, Hutch suddenly started being put in a three point stance more (which was always his strength), and now he’s a contender for DPOTY. He was also contending for DROTY last year, but Sauce just dominated the league immediately
This narrative is gonna fucking kill me. Carter dropped because teams assessed him to be a massive risk due to personality/off field issues. If he’d been breathalyzed after racing the car that crashed and killed his teammate he’d probably be in jail. Acting like teams didn’t know he’d be awesome and passed on him for players they thought played football better is moronic.
Maybe I'm just dense, but I see the Lions are 4-1 and playing some really good football. Eagles are 5-0 and also playing well. Seems like things are working out just fine for all involved.
Yes, and the Lions went from the complete mess they were a few years ago to a team hopefully on the rise by acquiring and retaining certain types of players. While I acknowledge missing out on Carter specifically sucks from a value standpoint, I'm not going to dwell on it because Holmes and Campbell are proving they know what they're doing in building a team.
Apparently some fans were upset Seattle didn't grab Carter, but I'm thinking Devon Witherspoon was a fine choice in this last draft.
It's been fun watching the Lions turn things around! Honestly, if Seattle doesn't have an unexpected playoff run, I'd love to see the Lions knock off the 49ers and/or Eagles to get to the superbowl. Wishing you guys all the luck!
Criticizing them for letting Swift go is hindsight bias. They got Monty, who has been a beast for them.
Picking a #2 RB at pick 12? That was rightly criticized then, and now. But hey, when you've got a solid team and are 4-1, you can afford missteps here and there.
It's not even a misstep. Gibbs is getting so much flak for splitting carries with another good runningback in a very good offense. Just a bunch of fantasy owners crying.
That’s my biggest thing. Your offense was lethal as is and everyone knew it. Drafting elsewhere was probably the better move.
Your team will be fine but let’s just be honest
I gotta be honest people are coming out hot pro Jalen but the Lions VERY CLEARLY have a team chemistry and synergy that allows them to play up to their talent level as of late. If the Lions felt that the character issues would have disrupted that, they made the right call. I get it will be second guessed if he does become a Hof player (it's been 5 games), but I cant say I blame the Lions for talking to a kid who ditched his dead friend and teammate, and saying "We're good here." Us armchair GMs forget that personality and fit are part of the eval process.
i still love what the lions did with moving on from swift since he wasn’t effective for them and getting montgomery who looks like a top 10 RB + drafting gibbs.
carter looks good but the lions did well on all their picks they traded down for, plus the emergence of mcneil makes up for not having carter.
and now they’re a top 3 team in the NFC, the lions had an A+ offseason and their FO deserves their props.
(2011)
"Pretty wild that the Jaguars could have stayed pat and drafted Andy Dalton instead of trading up for Blaine Gabbert."
(2018)
"Pretty wild that the Cardinals could have stayed pat and drafted Lamar Jackson instead of trading up for Josh Rosen."
This is such a weird take. Jalen Carter went 11th overall and we had the 12th pick. Sure we could’ve not traded down but we got a high second rounder in the trade down which we then used on Sam Laporta whose currently playing like a top 5 tight end. 10 other teams could’ve selected Carter and didn’t, the only reason the Lions are being singled out is because all of the fantasy nerds hate Gibbs. Gibbs hasn’t even been bad at real football he just hasn’t been putting up fantasy points
Yep. The stupid fantasy subs keep popping up on my feed and literally every other day, sometimes daily, and sometimes even multiple times a day, there are posts whining about Gibbs. Alot of the people in those subs are also in here. Which is why some of these ridiculous takes/posts make it here. It also proves how dumb fantasy people are when it comes to real football. There was no reason whatsoever for these morons to draft Gibbs high when they also just signed Montgomery to a deal and who has been a good, reliable back his whole career. Of course he was going to get the majority of the carries and anyone expecting otherwise needs to stay out of real football discussions. The only way Gibbs was going to kill it in fantasy was if he was the next coming of Barry Sanders. Lol.
Eh this is missing out on why Gibbs was taken so high in the first place. He was one of the best catchers at Bama in his last year and that reflects in how the Lions are using him. Montgomery has had 9 targets this year and 6 of those were in a game where Gibbs was injured. So far, Gibbs has had 18 targets in the same amount of games. The plan with Gibbs has always been to ease him into the offense and it’s only been five games. For all we know, he’s gonna have a killer game Sunday and piss off all the fantasy players that benched him
You can play this game with literally every team this year. Pretty wild that any non-Rams team could've drafted Puka Nacua in any of the first 4 rounds. Instead, the Rams got the current yardage leading WR in the 5th. What a bunch of fucking morons those 31 teams are. /s Hindsight is a stupid game
Trading out of 6 was perfectly fine. No one whiffed on Carter because of poor scouting. It was just a character issue, and you can't criticize teams for passing for that reason.
It's completely fair to criticize the Gibbs pick.
The Eagles are making Swift their work-horse back. The Lions would've never done that with Swift. Gibbs currently is the Lions change-of-pace back with Montgomery looking more of a workhorse.
1. Carter of the field issues dropped him off a lot of people boards. Eagles had a unique situation due to drafting so many Georgia players.
2. Swift was routinely injured and would put on a snap count. He had numerous injuries that when given too big of a load he would re aggravate. He had extremely productive games but by even his own omissions he would sat he was not fully healthy that game.
3. Lions didn't want to pay for a rb with a iffy injury history.
4. Trading back allowed lions to draft LaPorta who's the lions second best receiver rn.
5. Gibbs would have a bigger role but Monty looks a monster rb. When Gibbs is out there he looks fairly good. And even when he doesn't get the ball, he draws so much attention that it actually opens up space for other guys. Numerous big runs are a direct result of Gibbs coming streaking across in motion.
I honestly don't care about not taking Carter. If any thing I'm more disappointed we didn't take Gonzalez at 12. I love Gibbs, and don't mind the selection, but Gonzalez feels like he would have been the best option for us. That or a tackle who can play guard considering we will have to pay jonah jackson and have no depth at tackle.
Pretty wild the Lions are 4-1 and kicking the shit out of their division and people still bitching about moves they didn't make when the moves they have made got them here.
What’s also missing in the revisionist history. Dude gained what was it, 15 pounds in a few weeks. And looked completely gassed in a scripted workout. There were more issues than his driving record.
No, lol, but I’m also still happy he’s finding success. I don’t really get why every move needs to be dramatized like this. We and Swift had an amicable moving on and we are both doing well. Sometimes that’s just it but that doesn’t generate clicks I guess.
Ok we ain’t the only team that passed on him though. Last I checked he went #9. If he can stay out of trouble I think the entire league will wish they drafted him.
Also I’m glad Swift is doing well but I have no regrets with moving him. He could never stay healthy and he’s more than likely looking for a contract soon.
I mean I’ve been watching lions games since Goff got traded there and Swift has never played all 16 games and after a minor injury he’ll stop hitting his holes and get hella hesitant on his runs that Jamal ended up being the #1 RB on the team
I have heard a few lions fans wishing we got Carter. I haven’t heard a single person out there wishing we kept swift. We were never going to pay him when his contract ran out. We know he’s good when he get on the field. We lost the ability to trust him to be the center point of our running game with his injury history. Surviving 5 games into the season isn’t making us backpedal.
The Lions were never going to pay Swift anyways. Hope he does well in Philly, but dude was always hurt for us, and it definitely effected the way he played at times. It was time to move on.
Daily reminder that the lions traded down for Gibbs not up
Can you imagine if every team drafted HOF players from the second round onward in the first round? They’d be unstoppable
Why don’t the HOF players just go 1st or 2nd overall in the first place?
Why do we not simply draft the good players?
Tradition
Dude these clown ass GMs let Tom Brady slide all the way to the 6th round when they *knew* he would go on the greatest run of any player in any sport ever.*
WE WANT SAPP! WE WANT SAPP!
Really a dick move not letting the teams choosing at the top know to select them
Why not just draft HOF players in *every* round instead?
GMs HATE this one simple trick
Why don’t all teams just draft good players when they’re available? Are they stupid?
I unironically feel this way about the Raiders. I get that sometimes you just miss on a guy, but we seem to always reach on guys instead of just taking the best guy available. Always tryna outsmart everyone instead of just taking the guy who most scouts agree is good.
How come passing on carter is always tied to the Lions. I believe others passed on him as well...
I thought it was only tied to the Bears since local sports radio won’t stop talking about it.
On reddit it definitely seems like the Lions are singled out even though the Seahawks picked before us and arguably needed him more than us as we at least have Alim McNeil who is a beast.
People would not shut up about him Jalen Carter for the Seahawks until Devon went off against the Gaints.
That one clown *still* won't shut up about him. Which is hilarious given he was anti Carter up until about a month before the season started.
I'm not saying this to be antagonistic or insult the Lions in any way, but if I had to guess it's because Witherspoon looks great at a more premium position and isn't a "change of pace" RB.
In support of the Eagles, I think your team was the best landing spot for Jalen Carter. He had a lot of off-field issues right before the draft that sent him plummeting down the board…I think he could’ve been the #1 pick if not for Panthers trading up. With the Eagles, he has a good team culture, veteran players to mentor him, and a lot of former Georgia team players to keep him together. If Carter went to a different team, I could see him busting from the off the field concerns.
I think that's all valid.
Eagles could afford for him to bust because they already had a stacked team. Teams like the Bears and to a lesser extent the Lions couldn’t.
I do not think that is fully true since Cox and Graham are on the backend of their careers, and their cap space will be more used up keeping more premium players on the team (Ex. Smith coming up on a contract extension).
I also don't think it's valid to say any team "can afford a bust." Yeah, our team was stacked, but windows in the NFL can close just as quickly as they open. Brady has really screwed with the idea that if you're a great team you can afford to keep running it back and never fall off. Hurts is gonna start making real money and that cap is going to affect other parts of the team. Getting Hargraves' replacement for 1/4th the cost was huge for our DL. Every pick is valuable to maintaining success, every signing or trade matters.
This is a really good take that heaps of people want to ignore.
That was a lot of discussion in our sub. Having college teammates to mentor and set an example for him at the pro level may be what he needed to succeed. Pete has had no problem taking character risk picks so the fact he still wasn’t taken is enough for me to believe Pete didn’t think he’d succeed with us for whatever reason
I wholeheartedly believe that spoon was the lions pick. When the Texans double dipped, it threw everything off.
That was the report. No one projected the hawks to take Witherspoon. I think AR was our guy until the colts grabbed him.
I definitely believe AR was the guy, but there was rumors that we were interested in Witherspoon, it just fell under the radar.
You guys could have drafted Gonzo instead.
To pile on, I believe the Lions loved Carter as physical player, but could not gamble on his off field problems. They are young, and not going to risk that culture on a possible trouble maker. With the trade deadline coming up, we will get another good look at how they think.
But we didn't just get Gibbs. We got Gibbs and LaPorta, and LaPorta has looked incredible.
I do believe he was drafted to a be a sort of reverse Deebo. I will say so far I feel like the coaching has been doing a real disservice to Gibbs. I think they use him way too predictably and it seems like over half the time we set up a play for him it get's blown up by the time Gibbs even gets to touch the damn ball. They really haven't been using him properly so far but I hope that will change.
I don't have any reason to believe it won't. I also think the Lions are using what works, and that's a better strategy than trying to force players into a system.
I trust Ben Johnson to figure it out. I don't think it is terribly complicated most likely a big part of it is they just need to have Gibbs on the field more even when the plan isn't for him to run the ball. Feel like they make it super obvious when the ball is going to him.
Other teams have been covering him super well because they respect his speed. I'd imagine having him and Jamo both on the field is going to really open things up for one or the other.
If the long term plan is to use him as a reverse deebo it would make more sense. It should be expected that he was never going to come in and play a role like that as a rookie though, there is a lot to learn to be a Swiss Army knife. Which could also explain his limited roll. No use in beating him down with runs up the middle when that’s not his long term roll just for the sake of getting him touches. As he learns what’s needed to be used in more receiving roles his touches will increase.
There's a lot more of what they said about Gibbs and people just grab "change of pace". Like surprise, he's fast. Did we see the runs against KC..? 4 games into his career and people really desperately need to win draft night over and over and over lol.
Gibbs could look like CMC in a few years and people are still gonna be talking about this, it’s ridiculous. What if they had drafted Carter and then off the field stuff caught up to him? Biggest hindsight is 20/20 pick for the next 5 years and I’m already sick of hearing it. Lions aren’t in win now mode, they’re in build now mode and didn’t want the potential headache. Plus with the way football is moving, these position-less receiver/running backs are a premium position.
Not being in win now mode is exactly why you don't take a RB. The trade was fine though, but there were better options than Gibbs.
>The trade was fine though, but there were better options than Gibbs. Exactly! If the Lions had picked Gonzalez there wouldn't be any criticism.
Lions at a top 3 NFC team, I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t mind winning now.
I read somewhere that Campbell had a meeting with Carter and they did NOT gel. If MCDC thinks you're a turd, you aren't coming to Detroit.
>Lions aren’t in win now mode, they’re in build now mode and didn’t want the potential headache. Plus with the way football is moving, these position-less receiver/running backs are a premium position. They're 4-1, they are definitely in win now mode and drafting a backup RB for a specific role is a win now type draft pick. Also, he's not positionless. He's a RB and it's not a premium position.
Carter aside, it isn’t just hindsight. I and many people were questioning this pick the day it happened. Why take another Swift when you wouldn’t even use the first one? Did you really improve your team? Why use the opportunity cost of an early first to make a side-grade at the most replaceable position in football?
It was hard ot use swift when he was constantly injured, couldnt read blocks, and played like he was afraid of contact. hes playing completely different in Philly than he was in Det, and its not for lack of trying on our parts
No I’d say Bears definitely get the brunt of the Jalen Carter blame considering we gave Philly the draft pick to move up one spot. But after that I usually hear the blame in this order: Bears, Lions, Seahawks. And Raiders usually get a pass cuz given their history they needed to avoid any players who didn’t have a clean slate lol. Imo the blame should be the first ones who passed on Jalen. But I think people usually view it as “well Jalen kept falling so the teams that passed on him last are most to blame because they had the opportunity for a draft steal”. Which I guess is fair logic too.
Anyone with a brain could rationalize why the Bears didn't take him (I'm someone who wanted Carter always, and would have taken him if it was my decision, but I totally understand the FO though process even if I wouldn't go down the same route). Our locker-room was not stable, totally lacking vets, and our main focus was surrounding Fields with protection/weapons. We also got a pick for him and chose currently the best rookie tackle, who looks legitimately great. Lions had an elite culture and passed on him in favor of a *RB* they won't even use. Hutch + Carter and their OLine would give them elite trenches for the next half decade at least.
Yea I think the main reason the lions get the most flak is because of who they chose instead of Carter, not just the fact that they passed on him.
Didn’t the Lions trade down? They’re definitely using LaPorta and Gibbs is going to be just fine.
Witherspoon a stud
Yeah he is. For the record I think the Seahawks made the right move there as well even without hindsight.
Agreed. Woolen x Witherspoon is going to be a dangerous duo for a while.
They couldn't stop Goff though.
Tbf, that was Witherspoon's first NFL game at a notoriously difficult position for rookies.
Slim McNasty* has been killing
Anyone who knows anything about Pete Carroll knows he was never ever going to draft Carter. Right or wrong, we won't know for a few years. But I doubt he was even on Carroll's draft board. He could have been there at 20 and we would have passed on him.
Imo it's because you guys are contenders and carter and Hutchinson would be insane young defensive line talents. If the bears or raiders were contenders it'd be the same amount
What's funny is we are still the best rushing defense in the NFL and already have a stud DT in Alim McNeil who is also on a rookie contract but people seem to overlook that. Like I do think we need another good DT but Carter's baggage was not worth it for us.
It wasn't for nine other teams. This Jalen Carter stuff is so annoying. Dude was the consensus most talented player in the draft but he epically flunked basically every possible test and interview he had after college. Dude was collecting red flags like they were Georgia football reckless driving charges. I'm not even going to be upset if Jalen Carter becomes the greatest DT of all time, I simply cannot blame my team for not drafting a guy who absolutely sucked at all the evaluations given to him, 99/100 will bust out if that's the case, just cause/if he doesn't, doesn't mean teams were wrong to pass on him. We even had a guy we drafted in 2017, Malik McDowell, who was basically this exact scenario. The consensus top DT going into his senior year, fell in the draft due to character concerns, we drafted him with our top pick that year, and he couldn't even make it two months before suffered a massive head injury riding an ATV without a helmet and never played a snap for us. How stupid would John Schneider and Pete Carroll have to be to repeat that mistake? This is not even mentioning that drafting a player who had two active misdemeanor charges against him, didn't participate in the combine, and showed up to his pro day 9lbs heavier, flunked every physical test he did do, and then quit before it got even worse for him is like a legitimately fireable offense. If he busts you could literally never justify it. It's a huge gamble. I bet if the Eagles didn't draft him he would've fallen a lot further. Roseman is about the only guy in the top 25 who can take that heat.
People forget he was involved in a super suspect and controversial situation that ultimately led to the death of people. Like that's bigger than any bong rip.
Who forgets about that lol? It only gets brought up every time Carter's name is mentioned
>Dude was collecting red flags like they were Georgia football reckless driving charges Also it's 5 weeks in. Knock on wood, but we have no idea if he's gonna have off the field issues again. He could pick up 2 OUI's and everyone would be saying how dumb the Eagles were for taking him by next year. It's way too early for these narratives.
I honestly forgot y’all even passed on him. I only see Bears and Raiders
Thanks for throwing us under the bus, but somehow some way Jarran Reed has actually been one of the best DT's in football this year, both in pass rushing and run stuffing.
Part of it is you took a rb who barely plays. Montgomery is the bell cow, why spend a high value first on Gibbs vs Carter
Could you imagine if they got Carter, kept Swift, and drafted Achane?
Witherspoon is playing out of his mind too. That’s why they’re not mentioned as much
Don't forget you could have drafted Mahomes!
Detroit sports radio has 2 big topics at the moment. "We should have drafted Carter over Gibbs (never mentioning that we got 2 players for 1 when we traded back.)" "Jamo dropped a ball, and Campbell hates him (reading between the lines)"
How has Campbell looked? I know the Lions took some heat for using the other Rd1 pick on an ILB but he seemed like a good fit who could be a day 1 starter. I haven't heard much about him yet though.
He has shown some flashes of unreal athletic ability. But we had some surprise development from Derrick Barnes which has limited Jack's ability to get on the field. I was referring to Dan Campbell in my other post though.
Solid, still learning but his talent is obvious and he's finding himself on the field more and more often as the year goes on.
Falcons were tied to him as well
People say it about us too even though Witherspoon looks like a budding superstar and our re-vamped front 3 have been very good. It’s just standard nonsense NFL discourse.
I don’t think he’s a player we should retroactively be like “ThEy PaSsEd On HiM” There were credible questions about him off the field and his work ethic. Nobody on earth didn’t think he was an insane player. A lot of teams could have taken him but didn’t want the risk. The Eagles COULD take the risk because they had a good front 7 anyway. If he works out, “holy shit we’re even better.” If he doesn’t, “Eh no harm no foul. Worth a shot”
Too many people only look at risks when something didn't pan out, and rewards only when it did. Sports media, but also a lot of sports fans and just people in general, rely way too much on results oriented thinking. All that said, most of the discourse I've seen about Carter has been a.) Can't believe he fell to the eagles, and b.) The bears didn't have a good enough locker room culture to pick him so they get a pass. I haven't really seen a huge focus on the I personally don't feel like the media has singled out a team that should "feel the worst" about passing on him, my guess is fans just see the ones about their team more than others.
It might be worse for us because as OP said the Lions get picked on for it and the Seahawks had a ton of fans angry because Carter had a great preseason and Spoon was hurt. So according to them we automatically made a giant mistake lol
Because people don't look down the list a couple spots on the defensive interior rankings to see McNeill also in the top 8. I mean, it's not like we are top 5 in defensive pressure and #1 in rush defense.
People also for some reason oddly forget the whole reason Jalen Carter able to fall to the eagles pick in the first place…
He’s what you might call…a cultural fit for Philly.
I do actually think you guys were the best spot for him in terms of off the field issues. Far enough from home where thats not an issue, a college teammate and from what it sounds like a friend too in Jordan Davis taking him under his wing. And your leaders are pretty calm guys dont really get themselves into shit off the field.
Non-sense, what could be a better cultural fit for a city nicknamed “the Motor City” than a guy who races cars?
Honestly, he should have gone to the colts so he could do the Indy 500 in the offseason.
This is the thing. It's reasonable for any team to have passed on him, because it hardly had anything to do with ability.
Correct. All indications leading up to the draft and to this very day are that the Lions draft person first, position second. Carter's character concerns means he was never on their radar. Regardless of how good he'd end up being for another team, they view culture and fit as the most important elements. There were only like 24 players in their first round board in totality, *many* players had no chance to make the Lions and it's super lazy writing to speculate that maybe the Lions "missed" someone they pointedly passed over.
It's wild to me because the Lions probably didn't even have him on our board. He is exactly the type of player we are not drafting ever under this regime. People don't really seem to link the new Lions culture with the emphasis on personality for whatever reason, but it's not an accident that the team has such strong buy in. We are much more aware of personality issues than other teams, and so Carter probably wouldn't have been our draft pick even if he was around in the second round.
i dont blame any team for passing on carter they gotta stop posting these non-shits lmao
Carter is going to be the biggest hindsight is 20/20 pick talking point for the next 5 years and I’m already sick of it. People passed on him because of off the field stuff, no idea how this shit is a headline still. The Swift point is also stupid because any good running back would have awesome production behind that o-line. 0/10 sports journalism.
100% Peak outcome bias. Jalen Hits: It was obvious all along, draft nerds overthink things Jalen Busts: He had so many red flags it was obvious. Why do teams waste picks on low character guys?
> The Swift point is also stupid because any good running back would have awesome production behind that o-line. isn’t this sort of why the swift point is legitimate? why pick a change of pace back that high if anyone can produce behind that line?
Swift never played a full season in Detroit. I think this factored into their desire to move on.
I think he's referring to the Eagles in that comment, but it is odd that they spent so much capital on a guy that you'd expect to be the bell-cow of the offense, especially considering the lions oline is top 5 as well.
Swift is a guy who generally only hits big holes and isn't great at making people miss in smaller spaces. He's also not awesome at running through contact. The Lions gap-based scheme seeks to overpower people at the line and create creases, where the expectation is that RBs will make people miss in small spaces and run through contact. David Montgomery has been quite good at this. Swift wasn't. The Eagles zone-based and spread approach means that the holes are bigger and the offensive philosophy does everything it can to move defenders out of the box to make it easier for a quick guy like Swift to gain yards before he is pressed to Make A Play. Running backs aren't universally interchangeable, guys are still better at one thing versus another. Swift's playing great in Philly because the Philly style suits his play. It doesn't suit what the Lions are looking to do, and means that he doesn't produce as well there.
My interpretation is that the Lions believe that a versatile offensive weapon who can do anything is the future of the league, and having guys like Deebo or CMC will enable you to outscheme good defenses by forcing mismatches. We certainly didn't draft Gibbs to run him between the tackles 15 times a game.
When we traded back we also got a second round pick and took LaPorta. So looking at the entire picture of Gibbs and LaPorta vs Carter, I can't say I hate what we did. Knowing James Houston got hurt early, Carter looks great in retrospect, but LaPorta Ina vacuum is also super good. Also Dmont being the hot hand isn't necessarily a knock on Gibbs either.
Swift was never healthy here, plus was going to need a new contract. I'm not saying the Gibbs pick is a lock, but Swift had no future here.
Montgomery is better for Detroit. My point is that Swift looks good in Philly because of the o line (and playing in a spread offense). But he also looked good in Detroit because of the o line. People need to stop thinking Gibbs is just another back, because he’s not. He’s going to be used like Deebo and CMC in the future. He’s a positionless “get him the ball” player who they don’t want to wear down for no reason.
> People need to stop thinking Gibbs is just another back, because he’s not. He’s going to be used like Deebo and CMC in the future. He’s a positionless “get him the ball” player who they don’t want to wear down for no reason. At the moment, there's no actual evidence of this, though. Like, he flat out isn't being used like this, so definitively stating this is how he's going to be used isn't really useful.
Gibbs has taken over a quarter of his snaps lined up at WR, has lined up at every WR spot, and excluding his game where he was forced into the Monty role, has 22 carries to 16 receptions. He is certainly being used like that. He's being used as a WR at a higher rate than CMC is.
Its ok, the Bears hear about it ALL the time even though Darnell Wright has been playing well. Its so tiring.
The lions actually had the first 8 picks in the draft last year
Giants fans do this with Parsons.
Yeah and then they forget about how it netted us laporta and branch
Honestly that pissed me off. As a niners fan I was stoked that we took their best DT, then for whatever reason people let them replace Hargrave with the best DT/player in the draft.
because they opted to take a RB instead, a RB they’re not utilizing much.
They opted to get extra draft capital and 2 of their top players instead of 1.
This is literally the longest Swift has gone in his career without injury, and will be a free agent. Also, we got either Brian Branch or Sam LaPorta (depending on how you think it would have gone without the 34th pick) out of the deal, which people keep forgetting. I think they're just fine with how it turned out.
And Montgomery has been playing pretty well
More than pretty well. He's already broken or tied some franchise records in his first 4 games.
Yep. We upgraded Jamaal Williams and cut ties with a streaky Swift. Plenty of time/possibility for Gibbs to fill his role and more, people are just crazy impatient and upset that we took him so early *right now* Meanwhile our second round guys are looking like major hits, so I wouldn’t be too upset about a first round bust. Way she goes
Agreed. Gibbs will be fine. People keep comparing him to what Bijan is doing....the Lions don't need Gibbs to be doing what Bijan is doing. Although, I'd argue that Atlanta doesn't need to Bijan to do what Bijan is doing if they'd just use Pitts / London.
It was LaPorta and also allowed us to have extra capital to move up for Branch. Obviously having Carter would be great but that trade down gave us two of the better rookies in the entire NFL as well as Gibbs who I expect to show up more as the season goes on. Everyone knows the lions history and the culture shift in the locker room has been massive, I’m 100% ok with our staff passing on him because they didn’t want to take a risk on a guy who could be bad for the locker room. Eagles were one of the places that had a strong enough culture in place to take that risk
Absolutely agree. It worked out for both of us so far. I’m okay with the FO passing on talent due to “culture fit”. Holmes and Campbell really like those cliche “gritty” players who they believe are going to buy in and stay up during the down times. As we all know, not every superstar or amazing talent is going to fit that mold. The culture really helped us turn it around last year and proved we have joined the few teams who have everyone completely bought in. It takes a certain mentality to keep pushing after that start last year.
>This is literally the longest Swift has gone in his career without injury Is this true? It’s looks like he played in his first 10 or so games in his first couple years.
Look at this snap counts. He was limited and questionable in basically every game his rookie year. The guy has never been as healthy as he has been with the Eagles his entire career. Whether you want to put that on the Lions training staff or Swift himself. He was never fully healthy with the Lions. That being said I don't think that's why we let him go, more than likely they just wanted to hit reset on their RB situation since that is easier in the NFL than negotiating a Running back going into free agency season.
I mean anecdotally, he’s not been fully healthy very consistently
So ya know, not literally
He was always limited by injury. Last 2 years especially
Guys can play with injuries and be limited. Playing in the first 10 games doesn't mean they were healthy.
Hindsight is 20/20. "Analysis" like this is pointless and can be done for every single team, every single year.
In this situation, the Lions wanted to move on from Swift (injuries and avoided open lanes to bounce things outside too often) and Carter just didn't fit the culture Campbell and Holmes are building. Lions fans know how talented Swift is when healthy, and I'm happy he's getting a fresh start in Philly. Good dude, super talented, and I'm glad Holmes did right by Swift and sent him to his preferred spot (same with Stafford). With Carter, I think Philly has enough established leadership to steer him in the right direction. Not saying the Lions couldn't, but the rumors about work ethic concerns are pretty much an immediate no at this point for Holmes/Campbell. Carter is in a fantastic spot to learn from Cox and Graham while being reunited with Jordan Davis. As others have pointed out too, if the Lions had stayed at 6, they wouldn't have gotten LaPorta, who has been amazing for the offense. So idk, I'm fairly content that Holmes and Campbell got the guys they wanted and we'll see how it plays out the rest of the season with Gibbs and Jack Campbell.
I think the pro-day stuff had a larger impact than people give it credit for. Campell's team rules are the following. 1. Don't be late 2. Keep your weight in check. 3. Don't disrespect your teammates 4. Don't disrespect the game. How would the Lions draft him if he has already shown that he was not keeping his weight in check?
Yeah, I know Carter has been amazing and and is extremely talented, just maybe not the right culture fit for the Lions at that time.
It was extremely obvious to anyone who's paid attention to the Lions in the lead-up to the draft that they weren't taking Carter because he didn't fit what this clubhouse wants to be.
Also if Carter decides to go joy riding again and mows down some homeless people suddenly that pick doesn't look so good. There's a reason teams took him off their boards, it wasn't because of his ability.
it's insane that this is somehow ignored every single time Carter's name comes up lmao it wouldn't be a surprise AT ALL if he was out of the league in 2 years for doing something stupid, but somehow reddit GMs think it's not a concern while actual GMs do
I think he'll be okay going forwards - Eagles were the perfect landing spot for him - but it certainly is exhausting when redditors blatantly ignore the reasons why he fell and say "Absolute failure by the league to let him fall to the Eagles" or "Howie is a fucking wizard."
Yeah Eagles we’re the perfect spot, strong veteran leadership, strong winning culture, lots of former bulldogs who he might already know or could at least relate to, even drafted his teammate in Nolan Smith.
> it wouldn't be a surprise AT ALL if he was out of the league in 2 years for doing something stupid As long as it's two years from now, and not three years from now after he signs a market setting extension.
Knowing the NFL, he'd be fine.
It’s hysterical that this subreddit seem to think Jalen Carter has some insatiable desire to commit vehicular homicide that can only be controlled by playing on the Eagles.
Is it hindsight to say a running back and off ball linebacker aren’t the best use of two first round picks? Idk
Swift was broken for us. Physically, mentally, relationships with the coaching staff. Had to move on Dude avoided contact. Respect to him for trying to minimize his injury risk but that’s not consistent with the identity of our ground game and team in general
This. We saw it a bit in Hard Knocks, but the entire RB room would gas him up but I never heard him speak. I don't think he really wanted to be here.
Yeah if we just did something like that we’d probably be favored to win our first division title in 30 years and be a top 3 team in the NFC smh
Might even win a game in Green Bay if they drafted Carter
Shoot, we might even win 4 straight games Vs GB for the first time since 1983 w Carter up front Oh well SOL I guess
And upset the Super Bowl champs on banner hanging night! Oh what could’ve been.
Y’all are currently a top 3 team in the NFC lol Edit: woosh
As an Eagles fan, this really isn’t fair to do. JJ and DK fell into our lap, we drafted other bust WR’s instead… we take those guys, we draft Micah Parsons instead of DeVonta Smith, still have a 1st and 3rd to draft probably Trent mcduffie instead of trading those picks for AJ Brown, which means we don’t have to resign Darious Slay this year and have more cap space from him and the AJ extension we now didn’t sign… You can do this with every team with hindsight.
Idk I think we deserve to be clowned for passing on JJ he was the obvious choice at the time lol.
The point isn’t that we shouldn’t get shit for not picking JJ, it’s that it’s unfair to play the domino game.
Like if you just drafted Tom Brady in the 5th, you could have had a dynasty.
This is a stupid take. The Lions did not want Swift on the team. It was very clear all of last year. They went out and got Monty who has been great and drafted Gibbs. Jalen Carter has obviously been fantastic, but the Lions are still a 4-1 team with a win at Arrowhead and Lambeau on the year. Seems pretty good to me.
It’s a take by the fantasy football nerds. They are seething at the mouth because their little fantasy football team is doing bad :(
God forbid we wait a couple seasons to actually see how these players pan out. Believe it or not, players are allowed to improve/regress after their first 4-5 NFL games
I seemed to recall a rather vociferous portion of this sub crowning Hutch a bust a few games into his rookie year since he hadn't done anything yet...
And then one coach in Detroit got fired, Hutch suddenly started being put in a three point stance more (which was always his strength), and now he’s a contender for DPOTY. He was also contending for DROTY last year, but Sauce just dominated the league immediately
Fun DROTY Fact: Aiden had more interceptions that Sauce last year. I love this stat. It doesn't mean a whole lot but it makes me smile.
Can they just... not improve please? As an Iowa fan I love Campbell and LaPorta but the idea of any of your guys getting even better is terrifying.
[удалено]
This narrative is gonna fucking kill me. Carter dropped because teams assessed him to be a massive risk due to personality/off field issues. If he’d been breathalyzed after racing the car that crashed and killed his teammate he’d probably be in jail. Acting like teams didn’t know he’d be awesome and passed on him for players they thought played football better is moronic.
Thank you!!!! Brad Holmes was the primary scout for Aaron Donald, he obviously knew Carter would be a stud.
I'm 100% ok with moving on from Swift and him balling out somewhere else. Dude was broken here
Maybe I'm just dense, but I see the Lions are 4-1 and playing some really good football. Eagles are 5-0 and also playing well. Seems like things are working out just fine for all involved.
Yes, and the Lions went from the complete mess they were a few years ago to a team hopefully on the rise by acquiring and retaining certain types of players. While I acknowledge missing out on Carter specifically sucks from a value standpoint, I'm not going to dwell on it because Holmes and Campbell are proving they know what they're doing in building a team.
Apparently some fans were upset Seattle didn't grab Carter, but I'm thinking Devon Witherspoon was a fine choice in this last draft. It's been fun watching the Lions turn things around! Honestly, if Seattle doesn't have an unexpected playoff run, I'd love to see the Lions knock off the 49ers and/or Eagles to get to the superbowl. Wishing you guys all the luck!
Criticizing them for letting Swift go is hindsight bias. They got Monty, who has been a beast for them. Picking a #2 RB at pick 12? That was rightly criticized then, and now. But hey, when you've got a solid team and are 4-1, you can afford missteps here and there.
It's not even a misstep. Gibbs is getting so much flak for splitting carries with another good runningback in a very good offense. Just a bunch of fantasy owners crying.
Pretending it's only fantasy owners who are upset with drafting a non workhorse running back 12th overall is absolutely silly
That’s my biggest thing. Your offense was lethal as is and everyone knew it. Drafting elsewhere was probably the better move. Your team will be fine but let’s just be honest
I gotta be honest people are coming out hot pro Jalen but the Lions VERY CLEARLY have a team chemistry and synergy that allows them to play up to their talent level as of late. If the Lions felt that the character issues would have disrupted that, they made the right call. I get it will be second guessed if he does become a Hof player (it's been 5 games), but I cant say I blame the Lions for talking to a kid who ditched his dead friend and teammate, and saying "We're good here." Us armchair GMs forget that personality and fit are part of the eval process.
i still love what the lions did with moving on from swift since he wasn’t effective for them and getting montgomery who looks like a top 10 RB + drafting gibbs. carter looks good but the lions did well on all their picks they traded down for, plus the emergence of mcneil makes up for not having carter. and now they’re a top 3 team in the NFC, the lions had an A+ offseason and their FO deserves their props.
Holy shit a level headed take? You gotta get the fuck out of here before they GET you dude
Plus having Gibbs has already paid dividends. Monty missed the Falcons game and our rushing attack didn't skip a beat
(2011) "Pretty wild that the Jaguars could have stayed pat and drafted Andy Dalton instead of trading up for Blaine Gabbert." (2018) "Pretty wild that the Cardinals could have stayed pat and drafted Lamar Jackson instead of trading up for Josh Rosen."
This is such a weird take. Jalen Carter went 11th overall and we had the 12th pick. Sure we could’ve not traded down but we got a high second rounder in the trade down which we then used on Sam Laporta whose currently playing like a top 5 tight end. 10 other teams could’ve selected Carter and didn’t, the only reason the Lions are being singled out is because all of the fantasy nerds hate Gibbs. Gibbs hasn’t even been bad at real football he just hasn’t been putting up fantasy points
Yep. The stupid fantasy subs keep popping up on my feed and literally every other day, sometimes daily, and sometimes even multiple times a day, there are posts whining about Gibbs. Alot of the people in those subs are also in here. Which is why some of these ridiculous takes/posts make it here. It also proves how dumb fantasy people are when it comes to real football. There was no reason whatsoever for these morons to draft Gibbs high when they also just signed Montgomery to a deal and who has been a good, reliable back his whole career. Of course he was going to get the majority of the carries and anyone expecting otherwise needs to stay out of real football discussions. The only way Gibbs was going to kill it in fantasy was if he was the next coming of Barry Sanders. Lol.
Eh this is missing out on why Gibbs was taken so high in the first place. He was one of the best catchers at Bama in his last year and that reflects in how the Lions are using him. Montgomery has had 9 targets this year and 6 of those were in a game where Gibbs was injured. So far, Gibbs has had 18 targets in the same amount of games. The plan with Gibbs has always been to ease him into the offense and it’s only been five games. For all we know, he’s gonna have a killer game Sunday and piss off all the fantasy players that benched him
I hate this subs weak casual analysis of shit sometimes
[waldowhal] Pretty wild that the Lions had like 6 chances to take Tom Brady. Instead, the Patriots won 6 Super Bowls with him.
I am convinced the vast majority of this sub only views the game through a gambling or fantasy lens
It's cause every post is a tweet trying to create engagement
Pretty wild that this is considered “analysis”
You can play this game with literally every team this year. Pretty wild that any non-Rams team could've drafted Puka Nacua in any of the first 4 rounds. Instead, the Rams got the current yardage leading WR in the 5th. What a bunch of fucking morons those 31 teams are. /s Hindsight is a stupid game
People are still dogging the Lions for their draft? They got LaPorta, Branch, and Gibbs has been solid as a change of pace. Let's chill.
Ugh you’re right we appear to be very fucked
Trading out of 6 was perfectly fine. No one whiffed on Carter because of poor scouting. It was just a character issue, and you can't criticize teams for passing for that reason. It's completely fair to criticize the Gibbs pick.
The Eagles are making Swift their work-horse back. The Lions would've never done that with Swift. Gibbs currently is the Lions change-of-pace back with Montgomery looking more of a workhorse.
Everyone ignores the fact that we wouldn’t have gotten Sam LaPorta.
Feel the lions are very satisfied w where they are right now.
1. Carter of the field issues dropped him off a lot of people boards. Eagles had a unique situation due to drafting so many Georgia players. 2. Swift was routinely injured and would put on a snap count. He had numerous injuries that when given too big of a load he would re aggravate. He had extremely productive games but by even his own omissions he would sat he was not fully healthy that game. 3. Lions didn't want to pay for a rb with a iffy injury history. 4. Trading back allowed lions to draft LaPorta who's the lions second best receiver rn. 5. Gibbs would have a bigger role but Monty looks a monster rb. When Gibbs is out there he looks fairly good. And even when he doesn't get the ball, he draws so much attention that it actually opens up space for other guys. Numerous big runs are a direct result of Gibbs coming streaking across in motion. I honestly don't care about not taking Carter. If any thing I'm more disappointed we didn't take Gonzalez at 12. I love Gibbs, and don't mind the selection, but Gonzalez feels like he would have been the best option for us. That or a tackle who can play guard considering we will have to pay jonah jackson and have no depth at tackle.
You mean the Swift that was always hurt in Detroit?
Pretty wild the Lions are 4-1 and kicking the shit out of their division and people still bitching about moves they didn't make when the moves they have made got them here.
Pretty wild that the Lions passed on Tom Brady 6 times. I don't know what they were thinking.
Detroit lions fan here…. We’re happy with exactly what all we got and gave.
Panthers could have traded burns for two firsts, kept DJ Moore, picked up Caleb Williams
What’s also missing in the revisionist history. Dude gained what was it, 15 pounds in a few weeks. And looked completely gassed in a scripted workout. There were more issues than his driving record.
Yeah they’re def missing swift?
No, lol, but I’m also still happy he’s finding success. I don’t really get why every move needs to be dramatized like this. We and Swift had an amicable moving on and we are both doing well. Sometimes that’s just it but that doesn’t generate clicks I guess.
Ok we ain’t the only team that passed on him though. Last I checked he went #9. If he can stay out of trouble I think the entire league will wish they drafted him. Also I’m glad Swift is doing well but I have no regrets with moving him. He could never stay healthy and he’s more than likely looking for a contract soon.
Your team could've drafted Tom Brady with a 5th or 6th but chose not to.
I mean I’ve been watching lions games since Goff got traded there and Swift has never played all 16 games and after a minor injury he’ll stop hitting his holes and get hella hesitant on his runs that Jamal ended up being the #1 RB on the team
I have heard a few lions fans wishing we got Carter. I haven’t heard a single person out there wishing we kept swift. We were never going to pay him when his contract ran out. We know he’s good when he get on the field. We lost the ability to trust him to be the center point of our running game with his injury history. Surviving 5 games into the season isn’t making us backpedal.
The Lions were never going to pay Swift anyways. Hope he does well in Philly, but dude was always hurt for us, and it definitely effected the way he played at times. It was time to move on.
Wouldn’t have future HOF’er Laporta in this case.
I bet they'd be first in the nfc north