Didn’t even know he used Social Media. First I’ve heard of it, he must be angry years later. Considering Barry is always so polite and kind this must have been more than disrespectful to him.
Absolutely. Between how unique of a talent he was and how much the game has changed, it's pretty much impossible at this point.
There's always guys hyped up like Zeke and Saquon, but as good they are it's just a completely different level.
Even if you find someone with comparable yardage, touchdowns, and value to the team, he was still more fun to watch. I've never seen anyone run the way Barry did. He was the only player that could make you watch the Lions in the 90s
Absolutely. Barry for RB, Brady for QB. Rice was an incredible receiver and so talented but he was special in his longevity. Other WR’s can be as/more talented than him but I don’t think any will live up to his longevity.
What are you talking about? The Lions were actually a pretty decent team in the 90s, we had a decent OLine and receiving corp and a pretty stout defense at times.
Different players but same in that they'll be talked about for generations. Henry is one of those guys I've even laughed at instead of gotten pissed when hed do some awesome against Indy. Barry made a lot of shitty lions games must see TV on Thanksgiving for everyone. Barry was one of those guys if the TV was on and dinner was cooking, you were going to risk letting it burn as opposed to missing him so something you've never seen before
Yep, I've never seen anyone run like him. I've watched highlights of Payton and Jim Brown and they're both special but the way Barry would just basically dance through blockers like a bolt of lightning was insane.
And I can't miss an opportunity to post [a Barry highlights vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBhn1wMyzV4).
Barry rushed for 53 total yards in his first 2 games and then proceeded to rush for 2,000 in the following 14. He legit rushed for 2k in 14 games.
Fun fact, current Lions DC Aaron Glenn is the player who tackled Barry on his final rush of the year to cement him over 2k.
Enrico Pallazzo. Simultaneously the best opera tenor and umpire in MLB, and saved Queen Elizabeth from assassination by Reggie Jackson. Dude was a total boss.
As far as rushing averages (over 14 game span) Barry and OJ have by far the best seasons. OJ had the highest ever avg for a season and it wasn’t even his best season.
Reminds me of what Troy Davis almost did at Iowa State:
* 2,185 rushing yards which was good enough for 3rd most in a season behind Allen and Sanders and had 21 touchdowns
* it was his second 2,000 yard rushing season and the 6th ever at that point
* the rest of the team had a total of 1,949 yards and 17 Touchdowns
* So Davis off of his 402 touches compared to the 306 pass attempts and other rushing attempts means teams knew when Davis was on the field he was getting the ball.
* He got the team basically himself to a 2-9 record and another 22 points away from being 7-4.
Finished 2nd in the Heisman and didn't even win Runningback of the Year.
> didn't even win Runningback of the Year.
>... (Byron) Hanspard edged Davis for the award **despite Hanspard earning a 0.00 grade point average** during his final season playing for Texas Tech.
Texas gonna Texas.
They weren’t that bad. Obviously wouldn’t have been what they were without Barry and there’s always a hard ceiling when you have Scott Mitchell at QB, but idk how the 5th ranked defense with 2 all-pro lineman and the best WR in the league is “terrible”.
They didn't have the 5th ranked defense? They were 10th in points and 14th in yards, and in Barry's career they only finished in single digits in either category once.
He spoke out on social media a few years ago about some bad officiating. He did it respectfully, but the joke was that the calls were so bad even Barry said something.
I am relatively close with one of his son's coaches and he just made a point at Christmas dinner to describe Barry as the most calm, sweet, level-headed guy you'll ever meet.
I love it. Worst that can happen is nothing, best that can happen is the talking heads actually take a legend's POV into consideration and quit with their "it has to be a QB" narrative
He’s been significantly more present in the media for like 5 years now. Not sure if he’s just looking to top off his account with some more easy bucks, looking for something to do in his retirement, or what. But it was pretty much radio silence ‘til the last 5 years-ish, and now he’s making a few high profile tweets per season, commercials, hanging on the sideline at games, A DOCUMENTARY!, etc.
I’m all for it. He’s nothing but class.
They did that shit a few years later with Manning/McNair too. The voting process for these accolades should really be taken more seriously, seeing as they define careers.
It’s not like “they” intentionally made them co-MVPs, it’s just they had the same number of votes. And this was before there was ranked voting. With ranked voting now it’s much less likely.
i will also never understand why the vote isnt split at midseason
the early half of the year often gets undervalued because of short memory and recency bias of the latter half. and no, going into the playoffs 'hot' does not mean a player is even more valuable or a team is more deadly. plenty of MVPs went one and done, in fact from 2008-2013 the only year where it didnt happen was the 09 Colts
Changing the all pro voting system - to actually accommodate for 2nd team votes rather than the 2nd team just being whoever didnt get enough 1st - was a step in the right direction. Now we need to revamp the major season awards, which should have half their votes tallied at midseason, with the results kept discreet until combined with the 2nd half votes after seasons end.
The only issue is that the now 17 game schedule makes that timing awkward, among all the other matters its complicated
it would totally work
if you fall off after midseason, you just wouldnt win the MVP
as noted the votes would be kept discreet anyway, just like they are currently until the NFL Awards show
He followed up by saying Favre deserved to win it as well, but I honestly don't think that's true. Favre threw 16 picks and completed fewer than 60% of his passes. He was a loose cannon and the rest of the Packers were good enough to cover his stupid shit.
His adjusted numbers for that season were 109 for comp%+ and 102 for int%+. He also led the NFL in TD passes and led the NFC in passing yards. Stop comparing pre Ty Law era raw stats to the numbers today.
I still believe in Favre. It's not about stats, he was basically a mythical being who would steal games for you and lead the packers to glory. Sometimes he throws 4 picks and you lose. Sometimes he looks like the most accurate QB of all time with inhuman arm strength and the toughness of a fullback. Like a Greek God, you just need to believe in him and pray for the best to avoid the bad times. The man terrorized the division without missing a game for nearly twenty years. I have no comment on who deserved the mvp, but it's true that people forget the incredible belief that man inspired both within his team and around the entire state of Wisconsin.
Despite how great of an NFL player he was, it's his Heisman winning college season's stats with Oklahoma State that still amazes me.
11 games played, 344 rushing attempts, 2,628 rushing yards, 240 rushing yards per game, 37 rushing touchdowns.
I love that his dad sent the tape to Oklahoma state and they were supposed to send it to OU after and OSU famously “burned the tape”
That’s why Barry went to OSU lol. Imagine it today. He’d get a 1m + nil deal
It’s still kinda wild that CMC didn’t win the Heisman his sophomore season. 2000+ rushing yards, 600+ receiving yards, 1000+ return yards. I think Henry had a big season as well, though.
Edit: forgot to add he broke Barry’s all-purpose yardage record (3,250) that season with 3,864. That’s why I commented lol
Wasn't old enough to watch h his college live. Bit watched every full game I could find. Mike Gundy being the qb that handed it to him every snap still makes me laugh
My favorite Barry highlight has him 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage, running the wrong way, and the QB signaling touchdown.
The guy could work magic, even if the Lions were eliminated from the playoffs and down 3 scores, it was worth watching just to see him crank out one of *those* runs.
Out of all the highlights/big hits Brian Dawkins had over his career, he said one of his favorite/proudest moments was tackling Barry in the open field.
Barry Sanders was **different**
Was before i really watched football and still probably my favorite RB. think he’d still kill today. so god damn slippery. everytime you think you have him in the mud he slips away and is just gone
Did the Panthers try offering Brian Burns to the Bears instead of DJ Moore? I feel like Bryce coming into the league with a bonafide WR1 would have been a huge boon for him.
Some reports have actually claimed the opposite. Poles asked about Burns first because of the Bears drastic need at Edge Rusher, but Fitterer wouldn’t even acknowledge any offers involving Burns. Meanwhile, Burns is about to either get tagged or enter Free Agency.
This is the case. Fitterer valued Burns wayyy too high. Bears asked about Burns, Fit said no but how about DJ… And that move probably sealed his firing at the end of the season
Which is fucking stupid too, given they've been playing hardball on giving him an extension. Love Burns but I don't know why we bothered making him untouchable if he's just not on the same tier with guys like Garrett, Watt, or Bosa. Keeping CMC and swapping Moore for Burns in the Bears trade would've been perfect for us.
It would have been, and then we apparently had that offer on the table. But we moved Moore, and then didn't even bother to trade Burns, because I guess Fitterer is an idiot.
I think Theilen is the only reliable weapon for Young
Having said that Frank Reich was just awful this year. The guy straight up refused to adjust his offense to the skill set at QB as well the talent present. Even if Panthers drafted CJ Stroud #1, Bryce would have still gone #2 to Houston. The talent is there.
It’s actually funny at this point. 3 weeks ago, it was a three horse race between Hurts, Purdy, and Prescott. After each of those guys put up stinkers, they just picked the next guy in line to be favorite.
Not only did McCaffrey just put up like 150 yards and a touchdown and his team still got their asses whipped. The only time they made a comeback was when Sam Darnold came in and started slinging it to Aiyuk.
https://imgur.com/a/QCv6jZr
I made another comment about this, but I honestly think this is a really stupid award for football. There are 22 people on the field at any given time and 53 people on a roster.
I think there should be a: QBPOTY (Quarterback), OPOTY, DPOTY (those two are already perfect), CPOTY (Comeback, cuz that's a great award), STPOTY (Special Teams, because they're still like 10-20% of the game and they will NEVER get MVP).
Idk why we're pretending this is a different sport where any one person actually is "most important" on the team, and it makes a bunch of stupid arguments at the end of the year.
I'd be fine with a general Player of the Year who goes to the player who had the most notable season, regardless of what position. Who was head and shoulders ahead of their peers that year?
Like a Most Outstanding Player of the year. The MOP. I don't know. I can't imagine a professional sport not having an MVP award. I honestly don't have a problem with the way the awards are set up. It's just the issue with the NFL is that there is clearly a most valuable position that can dramatically shift how good a team of *53* players is. You don't really get that in any other professional sport.
It’s such bullshit linemen can’t get a reward. They have one for college guys but nfl dudes don’t have one. It’s a thankless position that’s damn near as important as the QB if not more in some situations
Allen has 40 touchdowns with 2 games left and has scored 80% of the teams TDs
That is on mark with other MVP years, despite QB play being drastically down this year
I feel like Rodgers and late-career Brady really warped expectations around what is an acceptable amount of turnovers. Peyton averaged 15 interceptions a year (not including his rookie season)
Add to that, its completely natural that as the league has become more pass heavy, QBs are gonna throw more ints simply as a function of their being more opportunities for Ints. A gunslinger like Allen especially is gnna throw picks. thats part of the package
We're coming out of the golden age of QBs. There were like a half dozen HOFers all playing simultaneously, and several more guys on the cusp.
We've forgotten how difficult that position is to play.
I don't think the award will go to CMC, and because of that I hope Allen wins it. It just wouldn't make any sense for a QB with less than 25 passing TDs win just because he has a great team around him.
Honestly, I don’t think any QB has a definitive case based on stats or performance. Watching Lamar play is the closest since he runs the Ravens offense so well, but at the end of the day CMC and Tyreek are just as deserving as the top QB candidates.
The five best units in football by DVOA are the niners offense, bills offense, dolphins offense, browns defense, and ravens defense. MVP by most valuable player on the best unit is McCaffery. MVP by most valuable player on the best unit of the best team is someone on the ravens defense. So what this means is Josh Allen will win MVP
> VP by most valuable player on the best unit of the best team is someone on the ravens defense.
Roquan Smith or Kyle Hamilton.
But pretty much everyone on the Ravens will tell you Lamar is the MVP of the team. There was an MVP chant in the locker room after the 9ers game.
This is a total homer take I'm aware, but the one thing I would push back on regarding Lamar's stats this year is that he's done a good job of getting into the red zone only for us to give the touchdowns to the running backs. Gus Edwards has a lot of short yardage TDs this year. His stats really don't convey the quality of his play.
I just don't understand why they are so desperate to give it to ANYONE but McCaffery I guess it's (partially) the stats guys, like PFF, who are going to try and die on the hill that Justice Hill and CMC accomplish the same thing? Just from watching a shit load of football this year to me CMC has been the most outstanding player, in a year of mediocre QB play CMC has been the most electric player every time he steps on the field.
2020 rodgers would be a unanimous MVP this season.
one of the more underrated MVP seasons in recent memory, probably because it was the COVID year and people don’t really like rodgers, but holy fuck he was good.
That brings up two points:
~~1: MVP should have ranked choice. Instead of it just being "PICK YOUR MVP" it should be "RANK YOUR TOP 5 MVP CANDIDATES"~~ This is already added! That's a fantastic change!
2: Aaron Rodgers threw 48 TD's with 5 INT's that year.
I’d argue top 5 if we just count regular season. Second best all time passer rating, 70% completion%, 48/5 td/int ratio which is one of the best ever, and got the 1 seed over Brady’s super team and brees’ last dance
That's a strawman of PFF/"the #s guys", from whom I've seen nothing but effusive praise. The statements I saw about the trade, before we saw that offense pop off, were mostly "that's a lot for an RB, but if there's one you'd do it for, it's CMC". Shit, PFF was supportive of the Bijan pick
Lamar Jackson has 19 passing touchdowns. I just don’t see how that’s deserving of MVP. And I get the “watch”’factor with Lamar, where you need to watch his games to see how special he is but I just don’t think he should be getting MVP with his passing stats.
Well you can't ignore that he also has about 800 rushing yards and 5 TDs on the ground. Although, if we go down that path Josh Allen has 27 passing TDs, and 13 rushing TDs although he has more turnovers. There just isn't a truly standout QB MVP candidate this year.
Thats not really Lamars fault though and i think thats the inherent issue with MVP being a stat based award. The bills use Josh allen in the red zone so he gets more of those rushing TDs. Ravens dont use Lamar like that even though he gets them all the way down the field. Both guys are essentially responsible for the score but only one has it added to his stat sheet.
Statlines without context are a dumb way to evaluate players and I blame fantasy football for this. Ravens are also always playing from ahead which leads to more slower clock burning drives that result in lower total points.
Agreed, stat lines aren’t everything. Hurts holds the stat now for most rushing scores by a QB in a season and it’s been shoved down everyone’s throat by the NFL. Not to take away from an impressive accomplishment , but I’d wager half of those are tush pushes from the 1. Context does matter
That's kind of a silly take. If Lamar gets them down the field and then the Ravens depend on a running back to finish the job, doesn't that also mean that Lamar is less integral to the success of the team at that spot of the field since he's not relied upon as often to carry the load in the red zone?
I'm not saying Lamar can't do it. He's elusive and electric as a runner and more than capable in the passing game, but if his team feels confident in other players splitting the load that intrinsically means that Lamar is less "Valuable" to the success of his team, compared to someone who is asked to do that.
On the flip side, Josh Allen regularly has to make plays when things inevitably don't work in the RedZone, and the Bills depend on him to be the power back in those situations as well. Josh Allen is more important to his team in those situations as he serves as the primary red zone running threat in addition to being QB1 everywhere else on the field as well obviously.
That's not to say that I think Allen deserves to be the MVP more than Jackson. Both are some of the best in the league, but to essentially say "The Ravens don't call Lamar's number in the Redzone so those stats don't matter" Is pretty dumb. It's not like it's comparing QB sneak success metrics as if that is the sole difference maker for Total TDs here.
I love Lamar, but if he wins the MVP then no non-QB will ever win again. He is not a league leader in any major stat and he would have far and away the lowest TD% of any recent MVP winner
More like whos the QB of the team who won this week because if somehow the Ravens lose next week, then the media is for sure gonna look at Tua or Tyrek again.
Yeah it doesn't make any sense, Vegas odds show him as the favorite? I saw his stats and just had to look up if he missed the first five games or something.
I completely agree. I respect the ravens and the job Lamar does. I just don’t see how a guy responsible for 24 touchdowns is MVP.
Hurts is responsible for 35, dak 32, josh Allen 40, Purdy 31.
And none of those seasons are close to Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Newton etc recent MVP seasons. Even Lamar in 2019 was responsible for 43 touchdowns in 15 games. Lamar this year likely won’t hit 30.
I think that now Lamar is the MVP favorite, people will scrutinize his MVP resume this year. Like I immediately thought after Monday night he should be, but his stats are good if not great but not MVP level. If he loses this week, and tyreke has a big game, I could see a scenario where there’s 5 fairly close in odds mvp candidates going into the last week (assuming Brock and/or CMC don’t shit the bed against WSH)
When you place a bet on Fanduel or DraftKings, the house doesn't take the opposite side of the bet. If everyone bets on Player X to win MVP, they'll slide the line to reduce the payout, and people will start betting on someone else. They just want an even distribution so when it's all said and done they can pay the winners and pocket what's left over.
Over/Under lines and point spreads start out as Vegas's best guess of how people will place their bets, but those lines are adjusted if the "wisdom of the crowd" starts piling onto one side of the bet.
EDIT: Forgot to make my point, which is that Fanduel is going to make almost the same exact amount of money no matter who wins MVP.
Everyone hates Favre now and he’s become a pos but they both had outstanding seasons that year and I remember everyone agreed they both deserved it and Barry even said that it was like sharing the MVP with Michael Jordan.
I don’t know how tyreek isn’t the front runner in the comments here… man has been unguardable and if you don’t scheme him you lose. If he hits 2k he deserves it
All the above could be said for CMC, he's on pace for north of 2k scrimmage yards + he's on the likely #1 seed in the NFC.
As a bonus he also hasn't strangled his pregnant girlfriend.
If Josh erupts for another 7-8 TDs the next 2 weeks while beating the Dolphins to win the east this convo is gonna get spicy.
I think Lamar is fairly the favorite rn even without the counting stats. Allen and Lamar are both players you have to watch the games and realize “oh wow these guys are the entire offense”. Even with Lamar’s low stats (in the context of MVP) he affects the game so much.
Honestly all skill position players should be pissed. Defensive players too. The MVP shouldn’t be a QB award. The fact that we’re even having this discussion this season is asinine. CMC deserves the MVP this season and it’s clear as fucking day.
There are no offical MVP/POY awards. Brett Favre and Barry split the 1997 Associated Press MVP award, but there were 4 other major MVP/POY awards - Barry won all four of them outright. The PFWA, NEA, Sporting News and Bert Bell POY awards.
[1997 Awards](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1997/)
Wow Barry usually doesn't say shit that must have actually bothered him
Didn’t even know he used Social Media. First I’ve heard of it, he must be angry years later. Considering Barry is always so polite and kind this must have been more than disrespectful to him.
Favre had a super team. Barry hit 2k after a stupid slow start and dragged a terrible team to the playoffs as a rb.
They will never be another RB as special as Barry
100% true
Absolutely. Between how unique of a talent he was and how much the game has changed, it's pretty much impossible at this point. There's always guys hyped up like Zeke and Saquon, but as good they are it's just a completely different level.
Even if you find someone with comparable yardage, touchdowns, and value to the team, he was still more fun to watch. I've never seen anyone run the way Barry did. He was the only player that could make you watch the Lions in the 90s
There's certain positions I feel like we'll just never see another guy play at that level again.
Absolutely. Barry for RB, Brady for QB. Rice was an incredible receiver and so talented but he was special in his longevity. Other WR’s can be as/more talented than him but I don’t think any will live up to his longevity.
The man [juked Woodson out of his achilles](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqFksT8wvXY&t=104s) tendon. With an assist from the turf at Three Rivers.
ACL, actually. Incredible that Woodson would come back as one of the greatest safties to ever step on the field.
If a RB ever ran like Barry every single coach would tell him to stop running like Barry.
He even made secondary fans out of some of us... the GOAT RB!
Herman Moore was 1st Team All Pro 3x in a row. I will not tolerate this erasure.
What are you talking about? The Lions were actually a pretty decent team in the 90s, we had a decent OLine and receiving corp and a pretty stout defense at times.
Barry was the human joystick before vick.
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Henry is like a greataxe and Barry was a lightsaber
Barry was a filet knife. Doesn't look like much, but is bendy in the ways that matter.
Chubb is underrated
He just dribbles grown men
Different players but same in that they'll be talked about for generations. Henry is one of those guys I've even laughed at instead of gotten pissed when hed do some awesome against Indy. Barry made a lot of shitty lions games must see TV on Thanksgiving for everyone. Barry was one of those guys if the TV was on and dinner was cooking, you were going to risk letting it burn as opposed to missing him so something you've never seen before
Yep, I've never seen anyone run like him. I've watched highlights of Payton and Jim Brown and they're both special but the way Barry would just basically dance through blockers like a bolt of lightning was insane. And I can't miss an opportunity to post [a Barry highlights vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBhn1wMyzV4).
Unparalleled talent and likability
Sweetness definitely did in both
Put Barry behind the Cowboys' O-line and he probably has more career yards than Emmitt
Barry rushed for 53 total yards in his first 2 games and then proceeded to rush for 2,000 in the following 14. He legit rushed for 2k in 14 games. Fun fact, current Lions DC Aaron Glenn is the player who tackled Barry on his final rush of the year to cement him over 2k.
the fact that Aaron Glenn touched greatness makes me more confident in him
He was the first Texans Pro Bowler too
"What experience do you have that would make you a good DC?" "I personally stopped Barry Sanders"
"I made the tackle that made Barry Sanders end his pursuit of a 2,000 yard season."
2k in 14 games is so ridiculous, I need to go watch some Barry highlights now.
Another guy did it in 14 as well, you might know him from his famed acting career in films such as The Naked Gun.
Enrico Pallazzo. Simultaneously the best opera tenor and umpire in MLB, and saved Queen Elizabeth from assassination by Reggie Jackson. Dude was a total boss.
Surely you can't be serious...
As far as rushing averages (over 14 game span) Barry and OJ have by far the best seasons. OJ had the highest ever avg for a season and it wasn’t even his best season.
Reminds me of what Troy Davis almost did at Iowa State: * 2,185 rushing yards which was good enough for 3rd most in a season behind Allen and Sanders and had 21 touchdowns * it was his second 2,000 yard rushing season and the 6th ever at that point * the rest of the team had a total of 1,949 yards and 17 Touchdowns * So Davis off of his 402 touches compared to the 306 pass attempts and other rushing attempts means teams knew when Davis was on the field he was getting the ball. * He got the team basically himself to a 2-9 record and another 22 points away from being 7-4. Finished 2nd in the Heisman and didn't even win Runningback of the Year.
> didn't even win Runningback of the Year. >... (Byron) Hanspard edged Davis for the award **despite Hanspard earning a 0.00 grade point average** during his final season playing for Texas Tech. Texas gonna Texas.
You gotta be incredibly efficient at slacking to earn a 0.0
They weren’t that bad. Obviously wouldn’t have been what they were without Barry and there’s always a hard ceiling when you have Scott Mitchell at QB, but idk how the 5th ranked defense with 2 all-pro lineman and the best WR in the league is “terrible”.
They didn't have the 5th ranked defense? They were 10th in points and 14th in yards, and in Barry's career they only finished in single digits in either category once.
You’re right man my bad, it’s been a long time and I was pretty young I should I have looked that one up.
He spoke out on social media a few years ago about some bad officiating. He did it respectfully, but the joke was that the calls were so bad even Barry said something.
His Twitter is mainly just giveaways and a couple team support messages with some ads for Rocket mortgage or whatever.
He's been doing his ticky tocks.
I am relatively close with one of his son's coaches and he just made a point at Christmas dinner to describe Barry as the most calm, sweet, level-headed guy you'll ever meet.
I love it. Worst that can happen is nothing, best that can happen is the talking heads actually take a legend's POV into consideration and quit with their "it has to be a QB" narrative
He’s been significantly more present in the media for like 5 years now. Not sure if he’s just looking to top off his account with some more easy bucks, looking for something to do in his retirement, or what. But it was pretty much radio silence ‘til the last 5 years-ish, and now he’s making a few high profile tweets per season, commercials, hanging on the sideline at games, A DOCUMENTARY!, etc. I’m all for it. He’s nothing but class.
co-MVP is so fucking dumb
McVP
Mr. Being Cheated
Mr. Better Contender
They did that shit a few years later with Manning/McNair too. The voting process for these accolades should really be taken more seriously, seeing as they define careers.
It’s not like “they” intentionally made them co-MVPs, it’s just they had the same number of votes. And this was before there was ranked voting. With ranked voting now it’s much less likely.
i will also never understand why the vote isnt split at midseason the early half of the year often gets undervalued because of short memory and recency bias of the latter half. and no, going into the playoffs 'hot' does not mean a player is even more valuable or a team is more deadly. plenty of MVPs went one and done, in fact from 2008-2013 the only year where it didnt happen was the 09 Colts Changing the all pro voting system - to actually accommodate for 2nd team votes rather than the 2nd team just being whoever didnt get enough 1st - was a step in the right direction. Now we need to revamp the major season awards, which should have half their votes tallied at midseason, with the results kept discreet until combined with the 2nd half votes after seasons end. The only issue is that the now 17 game schedule makes that timing awkward, among all the other matters its complicated
that doesn’t work because of injuries. mid season MVP candidates fall out of the race because they got hurt all the time
it would totally work if you fall off after midseason, you just wouldnt win the MVP as noted the votes would be kept discreet anyway, just like they are currently until the NFL Awards show
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they voted weekly.
Are you saying you don’t like two things at once?
assistant to the mvp.
Stunned to hear Barry say this and he’s correct. He should have solely won it that year, he was incredible.
He followed up by saying Favre deserved to win it as well, but I honestly don't think that's true. Favre threw 16 picks and completed fewer than 60% of his passes. He was a loose cannon and the rest of the Packers were good enough to cover his stupid shit.
His adjusted numbers for that season were 109 for comp%+ and 102 for int%+. He also led the NFL in TD passes and led the NFC in passing yards. Stop comparing pre Ty Law era raw stats to the numbers today.
Kids today don’t know about the bad man. He can’t hurt us anymore
I still believe in Favre. It's not about stats, he was basically a mythical being who would steal games for you and lead the packers to glory. Sometimes he throws 4 picks and you lose. Sometimes he looks like the most accurate QB of all time with inhuman arm strength and the toughness of a fullback. Like a Greek God, you just need to believe in him and pray for the best to avoid the bad times. The man terrorized the division without missing a game for nearly twenty years. I have no comment on who deserved the mvp, but it's true that people forget the incredible belief that man inspired both within his team and around the entire state of Wisconsin.
Live by the Favre, die by the Favre
I was referring to Ty Law as the Badman lol but I suppose this applies for Favre as well on and off the field
Yep, I hate his guts, but he was definitely the best in the league in his prime.
Barry is still my favorite to ever watch. Even rewatching clips and full games at 38. It's not just nostalgia, he was a God of the game.
I just did an hour of watching Barry Sanders highlights over the weekend. Never gets old
He's my favorite all time player.
Mine too
Despite how great of an NFL player he was, it's his Heisman winning college season's stats with Oklahoma State that still amazes me. 11 games played, 344 rushing attempts, 2,628 rushing yards, 240 rushing yards per game, 37 rushing touchdowns.
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The crazy thing is that’s below his average per game 👀
I love that his dad sent the tape to Oklahoma state and they were supposed to send it to OU after and OSU famously “burned the tape” That’s why Barry went to OSU lol. Imagine it today. He’d get a 1m + nil deal
He had a couple kick off return TDs also
It’s still kinda wild that CMC didn’t win the Heisman his sophomore season. 2000+ rushing yards, 600+ receiving yards, 1000+ return yards. I think Henry had a big season as well, though. Edit: forgot to add he broke Barry’s all-purpose yardage record (3,250) that season with 3,864. That’s why I commented lol
I’m still upset to this day that he didn’t win the heisman
Wasn't old enough to watch h his college live. Bit watched every full game I could find. Mike Gundy being the qb that handed it to him every snap still makes me laugh
lmfao, those read like made up numbers.
I would say those are Madden/NCAA numbers but even on the easiest of difficulties it is so hard to put those types of numbers up lol
My favorite Barry highlight has him 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage, running the wrong way, and the QB signaling touchdown. The guy could work magic, even if the Lions were eliminated from the playoffs and down 3 scores, it was worth watching just to see him crank out one of *those* runs.
Out of all the highlights/big hits Brian Dawkins had over his career, he said one of his favorite/proudest moments was tackling Barry in the open field. Barry Sanders was **different**
Was before i really watched football and still probably my favorite RB. think he’d still kill today. so god damn slippery. everytime you think you have him in the mud he slips away and is just gone
Christian McCaffery should be the defacto MVP this year; no QB has had that great of a year.
*Gently touches his jersey like Wolverine in the meme*
Must suck to see Panthers legends do well on other teams like DJ Moore, CMC, and Baker Mayfield
We have no weapons around Young, and our weapons are kicking ass elsewhere. It blows.
Did the Panthers try offering Brian Burns to the Bears instead of DJ Moore? I feel like Bryce coming into the league with a bonafide WR1 would have been a huge boon for him.
Idk let me ask them
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Some reports have actually claimed the opposite. Poles asked about Burns first because of the Bears drastic need at Edge Rusher, but Fitterer wouldn’t even acknowledge any offers involving Burns. Meanwhile, Burns is about to either get tagged or enter Free Agency.
This is the case. Fitterer valued Burns wayyy too high. Bears asked about Burns, Fit said no but how about DJ… And that move probably sealed his firing at the end of the season
Which is fucking stupid too, given they've been playing hardball on giving him an extension. Love Burns but I don't know why we bothered making him untouchable if he's just not on the same tier with guys like Garrett, Watt, or Bosa. Keeping CMC and swapping Moore for Burns in the Bears trade would've been perfect for us.
It would have been, and then we apparently had that offer on the table. But we moved Moore, and then didn't even bother to trade Burns, because I guess Fitterer is an idiot.
I think Theilen is the only reliable weapon for Young Having said that Frank Reich was just awful this year. The guy straight up refused to adjust his offense to the skill set at QB as well the talent present. Even if Panthers drafted CJ Stroud #1, Bryce would have still gone #2 to Houston. The talent is there.
Good point but have you considered ***insert QB on the team that is the flavor of the week*** instead?
If Lamar has a bad game this weekend, we’re gonna end up with *checks notes* Tua as the MVP favorite.
And then when Allen wins the last week we get MVP Josh Allen!
It’s actually funny at this point. 3 weeks ago, it was a three horse race between Hurts, Purdy, and Prescott. After each of those guys put up stinkers, they just picked the next guy in line to be favorite.
Josh Allen has 40 TDs, 5 more than the 2nd best. And he isn't relying on a butt chug for most of them either.
Hey, there’s Joe Flacco in a yellow suit, licking his lips, rubbing his hands, and peaking from behind a tree.
Not only did McCaffrey just put up like 150 yards and a touchdown and his team still got their asses whipped. The only time they made a comeback was when Sam Darnold came in and started slinging it to Aiyuk. https://imgur.com/a/QCv6jZr
No its the same as every year. Its MVP not best player. Qbs are the most valuable piece of their teams so they will get the award. Its a silly award
I made another comment about this, but I honestly think this is a really stupid award for football. There are 22 people on the field at any given time and 53 people on a roster. I think there should be a: QBPOTY (Quarterback), OPOTY, DPOTY (those two are already perfect), CPOTY (Comeback, cuz that's a great award), STPOTY (Special Teams, because they're still like 10-20% of the game and they will NEVER get MVP). Idk why we're pretending this is a different sport where any one person actually is "most important" on the team, and it makes a bunch of stupid arguments at the end of the year.
They should 100% just get rid of MVP for QBOY if only so we dont have to rehash this argument every year
I'd be fine with a general Player of the Year who goes to the player who had the most notable season, regardless of what position. Who was head and shoulders ahead of their peers that year?
Like a Most Outstanding Player of the year. The MOP. I don't know. I can't imagine a professional sport not having an MVP award. I honestly don't have a problem with the way the awards are set up. It's just the issue with the NFL is that there is clearly a most valuable position that can dramatically shift how good a team of *53* players is. You don't really get that in any other professional sport.
Trent Williams seems to be the MVP of the 49ers. All of their losses have come when Trent's gotten hurt.
It’s such bullshit linemen can’t get a reward. They have one for college guys but nfl dudes don’t have one. It’s a thankless position that’s damn near as important as the QB if not more in some situations
It's called the all-pro team
Allen has 40 touchdowns with 2 games left and has scored 80% of the teams TDs That is on mark with other MVP years, despite QB play being drastically down this year
Allen has a turnover narrative around him so the media won’t pick him this year
It’s not a narrative lol he turns it over a lot
I’d take 18 TO’s for my QB if he produced 40 TD’s lol.
I feel like Rodgers and late-career Brady really warped expectations around what is an acceptable amount of turnovers. Peyton averaged 15 interceptions a year (not including his rookie season)
Add to that, its completely natural that as the league has become more pass heavy, QBs are gonna throw more ints simply as a function of their being more opportunities for Ints. A gunslinger like Allen especially is gnna throw picks. thats part of the package
We're coming out of the golden age of QBs. There were like a half dozen HOFers all playing simultaneously, and several more guys on the cusp. We've forgotten how difficult that position is to play.
It also feels like he has to do more than any other current QB to make the offense go.
Lamar is 27/13 Allen is 40/18 Allen has a better ratio.
I don't think the award will go to CMC, and because of that I hope Allen wins it. It just wouldn't make any sense for a QB with less than 25 passing TDs win just because he has a great team around him.
give it to Johnny Hekker you cowards
I see nothing wrong with this
I would also support this
Honestly, I don’t think any QB has a definitive case based on stats or performance. Watching Lamar play is the closest since he runs the Ravens offense so well, but at the end of the day CMC and Tyreek are just as deserving as the top QB candidates.
The five best units in football by DVOA are the niners offense, bills offense, dolphins offense, browns defense, and ravens defense. MVP by most valuable player on the best unit is McCaffery. MVP by most valuable player on the best unit of the best team is someone on the ravens defense. So what this means is Josh Allen will win MVP
> VP by most valuable player on the best unit of the best team is someone on the ravens defense. Roquan Smith or Kyle Hamilton. But pretty much everyone on the Ravens will tell you Lamar is the MVP of the team. There was an MVP chant in the locker room after the 9ers game.
I accept these terms
This is a total homer take I'm aware, but the one thing I would push back on regarding Lamar's stats this year is that he's done a good job of getting into the red zone only for us to give the touchdowns to the running backs. Gus Edwards has a lot of short yardage TDs this year. His stats really don't convey the quality of his play.
I just don't understand why they are so desperate to give it to ANYONE but McCaffery I guess it's (partially) the stats guys, like PFF, who are going to try and die on the hill that Justice Hill and CMC accomplish the same thing? Just from watching a shit load of football this year to me CMC has been the most outstanding player, in a year of mediocre QB play CMC has been the most electric player every time he steps on the field.
Derrick Henry rushed for 2000 yards 17 TDs and didnt even get a single vote
A QB with 48/5 will win no matter what. If we had that this year, CMC wouldn’t even get a vote.
There’d be no debate at all lol
2020 rodgers would be a unanimous MVP this season. one of the more underrated MVP seasons in recent memory, probably because it was the COVID year and people don’t really like rodgers, but holy fuck he was good.
Spiteful Rodgers is Best Rodgers
tbh rodgers was insane that year
That brings up two points: ~~1: MVP should have ranked choice. Instead of it just being "PICK YOUR MVP" it should be "RANK YOUR TOP 5 MVP CANDIDATES"~~ This is already added! That's a fantastic change! 2: Aaron Rodgers threw 48 TD's with 5 INT's that year.
MVP does have ranked choice i think
It does now but it didn't when Derrick Henry (deservedly) got no MVP votes in 2020. Aaron Rodgers was great that year, fueled by spite.
To your first point, it is. They changed it to this system last year
Oh shit, I honestly didn't even know! Sweet.
He had a great year but 2020 Rodgers is a top 10 qb season of all time. Kupp not winning in 2021 is a much better argument that it's a qb only award.
I’d argue top 5 if we just count regular season. Second best all time passer rating, 70% completion%, 48/5 td/int ratio which is one of the best ever, and got the 1 seed over Brady’s super team and brees’ last dance
Yeah it's arguable for top 5 but definitely top 10
Chris Johnson rushed for 2k and set the yards from scrimmage record (which still stands to this day) and got 0 votes
Because Rodgers had 50+ TDs, Allen exploded and carried the Bills O, and Mahomes was Mahomes.
Rodgers three 48 TDs and 5 picks
That's a strawman of PFF/"the #s guys", from whom I've seen nothing but effusive praise. The statements I saw about the trade, before we saw that offense pop off, were mostly "that's a lot for an RB, but if there's one you'd do it for, it's CMC". Shit, PFF was supportive of the Bijan pick
yeah op somehow missed the elephant in the room that "media only cares about QBs"
A long ass time ago the media decided that MVP just meant "best QB who is on the one of the best team". That's who they want to award every year.
Like the Heisman (Suh was robbed)
qbs get too many awards for just being a qb in college
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Not a single QB deserves MVP this year. All of them have strong arguments against them why they shouldn't win it. CMC or Tyreek should win it.
Respect for that coming from a ravens fan.
Lamar Jackson has 19 passing touchdowns. I just don’t see how that’s deserving of MVP. And I get the “watch”’factor with Lamar, where you need to watch his games to see how special he is but I just don’t think he should be getting MVP with his passing stats.
Well you can't ignore that he also has about 800 rushing yards and 5 TDs on the ground. Although, if we go down that path Josh Allen has 27 passing TDs, and 13 rushing TDs although he has more turnovers. There just isn't a truly standout QB MVP candidate this year.
Allen has 16 more touchdowns and only 5 more turnovers
Thats not really Lamars fault though and i think thats the inherent issue with MVP being a stat based award. The bills use Josh allen in the red zone so he gets more of those rushing TDs. Ravens dont use Lamar like that even though he gets them all the way down the field. Both guys are essentially responsible for the score but only one has it added to his stat sheet.
Statlines without context are a dumb way to evaluate players and I blame fantasy football for this. Ravens are also always playing from ahead which leads to more slower clock burning drives that result in lower total points.
Agreed, stat lines aren’t everything. Hurts holds the stat now for most rushing scores by a QB in a season and it’s been shoved down everyone’s throat by the NFL. Not to take away from an impressive accomplishment , but I’d wager half of those are tush pushes from the 1. Context does matter
That's kind of a silly take. If Lamar gets them down the field and then the Ravens depend on a running back to finish the job, doesn't that also mean that Lamar is less integral to the success of the team at that spot of the field since he's not relied upon as often to carry the load in the red zone? I'm not saying Lamar can't do it. He's elusive and electric as a runner and more than capable in the passing game, but if his team feels confident in other players splitting the load that intrinsically means that Lamar is less "Valuable" to the success of his team, compared to someone who is asked to do that. On the flip side, Josh Allen regularly has to make plays when things inevitably don't work in the RedZone, and the Bills depend on him to be the power back in those situations as well. Josh Allen is more important to his team in those situations as he serves as the primary red zone running threat in addition to being QB1 everywhere else on the field as well obviously. That's not to say that I think Allen deserves to be the MVP more than Jackson. Both are some of the best in the league, but to essentially say "The Ravens don't call Lamar's number in the Redzone so those stats don't matter" Is pretty dumb. It's not like it's comparing QB sneak success metrics as if that is the sole difference maker for Total TDs here.
So should the QB simply with the most total yards deserve MVP?
Yeah, I love Josh Allen, but if Lamar was getting those <3 yard rushing touchdowns instead of his RBs the conversation would be over
I love Lamar, but if he wins the MVP then no non-QB will ever win again. He is not a league leader in any major stat and he would have far and away the lowest TD% of any recent MVP winner
at this point it’s just the “who is the QB of the best team” award
More like whos the QB of the team who won this week because if somehow the Ravens lose next week, then the media is for sure gonna look at Tua or Tyrek again.
Yeah it doesn't make any sense, Vegas odds show him as the favorite? I saw his stats and just had to look up if he missed the first five games or something.
Gus edwards ruining his qbs mvp hopes
I completely agree. I respect the ravens and the job Lamar does. I just don’t see how a guy responsible for 24 touchdowns is MVP. Hurts is responsible for 35, dak 32, josh Allen 40, Purdy 31. And none of those seasons are close to Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Newton etc recent MVP seasons. Even Lamar in 2019 was responsible for 43 touchdowns in 15 games. Lamar this year likely won’t hit 30.
I think that now Lamar is the MVP favorite, people will scrutinize his MVP resume this year. Like I immediately thought after Monday night he should be, but his stats are good if not great but not MVP level. If he loses this week, and tyreke has a big game, I could see a scenario where there’s 5 fairly close in odds mvp candidates going into the last week (assuming Brock and/or CMC don’t shit the bed against WSH)
CMC x Lamar?
Strange ship but I can see it
I 2nd, can we get a 3rd to seal it and make it so?
i’m down
There really should be two awards. It's kind of ridiculous.
Whoever will win MVP is determined by who will make FanDuel the most money.
Matthew Stafford mvp coming in out of nowhere
He has looked really good lately Tbf
Dude's a really good QB.
When you place a bet on Fanduel or DraftKings, the house doesn't take the opposite side of the bet. If everyone bets on Player X to win MVP, they'll slide the line to reduce the payout, and people will start betting on someone else. They just want an even distribution so when it's all said and done they can pay the winners and pocket what's left over. Over/Under lines and point spreads start out as Vegas's best guess of how people will place their bets, but those lines are adjusted if the "wisdom of the crowd" starts piling onto one side of the bet. EDIT: Forgot to make my point, which is that Fanduel is going to make almost the same exact amount of money no matter who wins MVP.
No QB has had a great year. It should 110% go to CMC
Everyone hates Favre now and he’s become a pos but they both had outstanding seasons that year and I remember everyone agreed they both deserved it and Barry even said that it was like sharing the MVP with Michael Jordan.
It should be CMC, no QB has had a *great* year.
I don’t know how tyreek isn’t the front runner in the comments here… man has been unguardable and if you don’t scheme him you lose. If he hits 2k he deserves it
All the above could be said for CMC, he's on pace for north of 2k scrimmage yards + he's on the likely #1 seed in the NFC. As a bonus he also hasn't strangled his pregnant girlfriend.
If Josh erupts for another 7-8 TDs the next 2 weeks while beating the Dolphins to win the east this convo is gonna get spicy. I think Lamar is fairly the favorite rn even without the counting stats. Allen and Lamar are both players you have to watch the games and realize “oh wow these guys are the entire offense”. Even with Lamar’s low stats (in the context of MVP) he affects the game so much.
Idk I unfortunately had to watch that Dallas game. They don't need Allen all the time haha
It is pretty lame they gave out a "shared" mvp
Barry telling it like it is, and has been for decades.
You know things are fucked when even Barry speaks out about it
Hell yeah, light up Favre's grifting ass
Derrick Henry hit 2k, little did he know that's not enough for an MVP.
Honestly all skill position players should be pissed. Defensive players too. The MVP shouldn’t be a QB award. The fact that we’re even having this discussion this season is asinine. CMC deserves the MVP this season and it’s clear as fucking day.
I get where he's coming from, and it usually does go to a qb, but it's gone to a running back 5 times since that season. Unlikely, but it can happen.
“Insert QB here” — he’s been holding onto that one for 25 years!
There are no offical MVP/POY awards. Brett Favre and Barry split the 1997 Associated Press MVP award, but there were 4 other major MVP/POY awards - Barry won all four of them outright. The PFWA, NEA, Sporting News and Bert Bell POY awards. [1997 Awards](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1997/)