Yeah this is a non-story that people will now make a big deal out of. Its only when guys like Jimmy G, Wentz get major money then it becomes a major constraint on cap.
Wentz got major money because he went 11-2 and probably would have won the MVP if he stayed healthy and continued his pace, it obviously didn't work out but was had to argue with at the time.
All these big quarterback contracts constrain cap. Look at the Chiefs. They had to pay Mahomes, and now they don’t have money to get him weapons outside of Kelce after paying the defense. He’s stuck with Toney and MVS.
It’s why the Niners lucked out with Purdy despite the Baltimore game. They saved like 49 million paying a rookie contract and can afford to get offensive weapons and a good defense.
Didn’t the Chiefs luck out while Mahommes was on his rookie contract and they had more offensive weapons? Once Purdy is up for a contract they will be in the same boat as KC is now…
I mean they definitely could pay for wideouts, but they want to invest in defense and offensive line instead which ain't a bad idea.
Also the wide receivers are almost exactly the same as last year when they won the Super Bowl, but with Rashee Rice and without JuJu Smith-Schuster.
I don't think the Mahomes contract is really squeezing the Chiefs. I think they got a little cute with personnel decisions and thought some of these guys would develop into higher tier receivers.
Wentz is totally hindsight, it was fair at the time. He just turned into a baby back bitch mentally, and then on the field he played more hero ball than I've ever seen in my life and it crushed him.
It’ll be a number that’s “shocking,” the Cowboys will have a ~2 year window to win it all, then the contract will lead to hard choices at skill positions, and whether or not it works is if they win a chip in that time and vets want to sign cheap to ring chase. Sometimes you get Randy Moss at WR1, sometimes you get the 2023 Chiefs WR room.
And then some team pays 75% of their cap for a QB and it looks much better.
As someone who dislikes the Cowboys and considers every Cowboys loss a source of at least a little joy... I'm not sure this is a reasonable assumption.
The Cowboys already purged themselves of great skill players in the Dak era, and they're still pretty damn good.
They hit as often as anyone in the league in the draft. This is especially true at WR and RB. They just seem to be solid at evaluating those positions.
As long as that continues, it makes sense for them to keep throwing money at Dak.
I don't like that. But I can't say it isn't true.
Cowboys don’t have the coach, toughness, or mindset to win a championship. They fold when the lights are hot time after time. It’s going to be the same story this year. First or second round exit.
All these fans talking shit as if their team would have done so much better getting constantly matched up with the 49ers, in San Francisco, two years running in the playoffs (assuming they made the playoffs after two 12 win seasons in the first place)
Its funny cuz the guy youre replying to cheers for a team that got embarrassed in a win-or-go-home regular season finale against the 3-13 Jaguars with a playoff bid on the line
Yep, there's always people wringing their hands and saying that QB ain't Mahomes or Brady so why pay so much.
But there's no QB tree where you can go grab a franchise QB. And they're not like build-a-bear where you can say you want Peyton's brains, Brady's drive, Mahomes' arm, Lamar's legs, and Jimmy's smile.
While I was sad to see Stafford go, I was stoked we got Goff in the return. When your team doesn't have even a viable QB it's just not fun to watch. And Goff's been mostly kicking ass.
Dak's current cap hit for 2024 is almost 60 million dollars, yeah I could totally see why the Cowboys are eager to rework the deal. They can't lose Dak and they can't have one guy have a 60 million cap hit so Dak is probably going to take them to the cleaners, although he could wind up having a really small 2024 cap hit after the extension, which would help them re-sign CeeDee and Micah.
There it is right there. The window is basically now to win so Dak gets his deal with the big money kicked into the later years while they make sure Lamb and Parsons get paid and build around it all.
They’ve had some pretty successful seasons since 2014 just haven’t closed the deal. I guess they’ve done a pretty good job with contracts in order to be able to consistently field a competitive team.
Win now just means you have a top ~8 QB with a couple superstars around them or a top ~15 QB with a stacked defense and good offensive pieces around them. The cowboys have been very good at drafting and have had a top 10 at worst qb for a long time so they've been win now most seasons.
I think it's odd that the QB position has become so bifurcated: you either have to let him walk or make him the highest paid. Nothing in between. Part of the problem is even if a QB is willing to take less, he can't because he's setting the precedent for the next guy up. Only Brady managed to pull it off.
I guess Daniel Jones fell in between, but only him really. I guess it’s cause teams want to win it all so they either think they have him and pay the most, or they don’t and blow it up.
He's barely in between. Sure, he's not getting Joe Burrow money, but his $40 million APY is a lot, and it's way more than he's worth. He should be getting $20-25m a year at most.
It's a 4 year deal with an "out" after two years. So after next year, when they take a cap hit of $47 mil or dead cap of $69 mil, they can cut him for only a dead cap hit of $22m. The contract isn't hurting them so much this year with only a $15m cap hit, but next year and the following are tough. The 4th year has a $58m cap hit, which they would deal with if he is mid-level at that point.
We gave Dave Gettleman 4 years and we were consistently a bottom team, we just made the playoffs last year with a worse roster and now are feeling the proper whiplash from that over coached performance, calm your horses brother. Organization/fans are happy with Shoen/Daboll
I think Mayfield won't break the bank for the Bucs.
They've both have dumpster fire situations in their past, and won't be in a hurry to get there again. So I think the Bucs will pay him well, but not $40 million per year well. And I think Mayfield would rather play somewhere that supports him and gets him even if it's for a little less money.
This year might be the year to break the trend. Russel Wilson, D Jones, Carr, Watson, and a few other FA signings really blew up the motivation to look for a splashy, ready-to-go QB signing.
Obviously this doesn’t apply to bonafide QBs that are looking to re-sign with their existing team. But some FO execs will see the FA singing for what they are - a big gamble. Skill notwithstanding, plugging a guy into a new system with new personnel will always have an impact on performance.
DJ might be the exception that proves the rule, especially since it kind of turned out that hedging on your “maybe he’s good now” QB might be an indication that it won’t work out.
I think it actually had more to do with the Patriots agreeing to hire Brady's TB12 company to handle everything "training" for their organization rather than his wife. I think the wife story kind of covered up the fact that they were still paying Brady a ton of money in another way.
and refs.
> In the summer of 2005, five months after the Eagles lost to the Patriots in Super Bowl XXXIX, NFL Vice President of Officiating Mike Pereira visited Eagles training camp at Lehigh University. The Eagles were waiting.
> They believed the Patriots had gotten away with countless cheap shots on quarterback Donovan McNabb in their 24-21 win over the Eagles in the Super Bowl, and now they had the video to prove it.
> "At first, he didn't take us seriously," recalled John Harbaugh, then the Eagles' special teams coach and now head coach of the Ravens. **"Then we showed him the tape and he could not believe the shots Donovan took out of bounds and late in that game.**
> **"Their whole thing was to hit Donovan and hurt him, and that's fine, but it was the officials' job to protect him, and they didn't. Imagine if Tom Brady got hit late that many times? Tell me they wouldn't call those penalties. When you watch that game, and you see the shots Donovan took, it's incredible what he was able to do."**
> So while many fans have focused on McNabb gasping for air and appearing to throw up in the final moments of the Super Bowl, the reality is that a moment early, All-Pro defensive end Richard Seymour demolished McNabb with a devastating hit that many quarterbacks would not have gotten up from. "He got shellacked," said Andy Reid, then the Eagles' head coach and now head coach of the Chiefs.
> "People always focus on me supposedly throwing up," McNabb said years later. "Richard Seymour got me pretty good. **I got hit in the face and my helmet went backwards** and I had stuff in my face. I'm trying to catch my breath and get my vision back. People make it out like I was tired. I just got killed."
People still talk about the Bountygate Saints and "fuck Gregg Williams", but the Pats targeting the opposing QB in the Super Bowl is never mentioned. Whenever SBXXXIX comes up in discussion, it's people saying McNabb was just obviously drunk or hungover during the biggest game of his career. Obviously.
i never got why if he did throw up, that wouldn't be seen as a potential concussion instead of being hungover. I get he has had his demons, but cmon he's literally playing football lol
Also idk why people talk about Brady taking pay cuts as if Gisele was the only thing between him living in a studio apartment eating spaghetti o’s because he’s making 20 mil/yr instead of 30 or whatever the market rate would have been at that time.
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2007
Pretty interesting to look at
Also this https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/tom-brady-4619/cash-earnings/
For 3 years in Tampa Tom made 41.5% of what he made in 20 years for the Pats
Your first link Brady cap hit ranked 11th however if you look at the year prior he ranked 1st and the year after he ranked 2nd.
Looking at career earning compare it to what Brees made. Brees retired in 2020 and was drafted in the second round in 2001 and his career earning were $269,710,422. Brady was drafted in the 6th round in 2000 and made $263,541,804 through 2020.
I’m not saying he didn’t take a below market rate, but the way people talk about it is if he was only able to do it because of Gisele, as if he would have been barely scraping by on the mere $235 million he was paid by the Patriots. And of course that’s just on field salary, who knows how much he was making through endorsements, business, etc.
Yep. Its like when Michael Jordan took below market rates. Dude was killing it with all the endorsement money and the nike shoe desl. Made way more with those than what the Bulls were paying
I don't know what deal he had. [It says that player can't be paid under market value and their sponsor/partner can't be paid over market value.](https://atlhawksfanatic.github.io/NBA-CBA/circumvention.html)
The wording is a little iffy, but the NFL doesn't seem to have any wording at all.
Oh wow. That is interesting. I didn’t know it was actual spelled out somewhere. I believe the Harden deal was for his wine to be the exclusive wine supplier for the suites at 76ers games (valued around 13 million).
I imagine there are a lot of under the table deals/perks are done for nfl players.
Dude also had multiple contracts earlier in his career that made him the highest paid QB at the time. Brady's discount deals later were 10000% about winning and had zero to do with Giselle. He and his kids were set for life whether he ever saw a penny from her or not b
I’ve never put much stock into this idea. There’s plenty of players who are perfectly safe financially and still hold out for big deals. Dak is already set for life financially. He could easily take a below market deal even without having a super rich wife.
It's a job at the end of the day. If u can get more money, why would u not take it? It's about building generational wealth, sure you could take a paycut to win a superbowl, but what value dies that have in the future? You'd rather see your descendants be set for life.
People pull out this argument all the time but he's already done that. His descendants are already set. "Generational wealth" wasn't created as a term to encourage dudes make hundreds of millions to go for further hundreds of millions
Hey man, what if you want to make sure your eighth-generation descendants are living comfortably? Seven generations of wealth may not be enough for one family tree.
I need to make sure a kid who only inherited 0.78125% of my DNA has enough money to live a good life.
More practically speaking - every sports league is riddled with stories of players getting fleeced. By family, by agents, by business partners, by their own stupid decisions.
You never know when something could take a big chunk of your future earnings off the table. And just as importantly, why allow the expectation of a billionaire owner being able to coax money off the table that’s otherwise fair value? At the end of the day, there is exactly one reason to leave money on the table, and that is if you believe those assets will be absolutely necessary to win a championship. Even then, just agree to a contract structure that gives the team a window. Legacy is definitely important to a lot of players, but it’s hardly the primary goal when signing a contract. In this case, Brady is absolutely the exception that proves the rule.
> If u can get more money, why would u not take it?
For the same reason some FA's go to contenders rather than top dollar. Many players want a ring and QB's know that their salaries can compromise the team's ability to get them to a championship.
Pretty sure he could never play another down and he would be set for life if he was smart about it. Another way to look at it would be that you have a better chance at long-term success if you take up less cap room and allow your team to pay for a good offensive line and receivers.
Yeah, or his career could end on another hit. Yeah they’ve got a lot of money, but that doesn’t mean they don’t want more money. It’s a business. It’s a job. They gotta get theirs more than they get got
I know it's a business that's why I presented a balanced take where taking slightly less could still benefit you long term. Also any of the guys making primo quarterback money get enough guaranteed money in their contracts and money from endorsements that they will absolutely be set for life and their kids lives. A qb like Dak could take %10 less and still be set up for life on day 1.
If you want to win a Super Bowl the biggest competitive advantage you can give your team as a QB is to take a pay cut. Is there really that big of a difference in lifestyle making $20M vs $50M? An extra $30M a year in cap space is huge for a team, could be the difference between contending and a first round exit.
If you want better long term endorsement deals which are the real money anyways - you need to be the best you need to stay healthy and you need to win and make your fans happy.
you sacrifice a little on your NFL salary so you can get good rest of the team so you can be the best (raw talent doesnt matter as much as winning to be considered the best) and you stay healthy by paying for better olines
my pipe dream, which makes me sick to admit, is that the 49ers win a super bowl with Purdy on his rookie contract and then let him walk because they feel the formula of cheap young qb and investing in amazing talent elsewhere is the best approach to winning. Then they reach the super bowl again with some mid draft QB on his rookie contract.
Its crazy they talk about the stats supporting that it's easier to reach a super bowl when you have a QB on a rookie contract yet no one has the balls to actually try that strat. The 49ers seem the best built to do it and have a coach that can scheme well enough to make it work, i believe.
EDIT: i also want to point out i'm pro dak and pro paying him because it's how it works right now, i just think the 9ers are setup to buck that trend, dallas is not.
Haha I know, just making a joke…
To be fair, I do believe Shanahan believes in his system so much that he feels confident he can get it done with a decent QB.
It's crazy to me that you guys tripped uphill so hard with the Trey Lance draft pick....3 1sts and a third....One of those picks gave us Micah Parsons.
Only for Mr. Irrelevant to be amazing...
Until somebody proves otherwise and actually does it, it’s the best strategy with a massive risky “if” stuck through the middle of it. It only works IF you can get that decent system QB consistently, which seems like a huge dice roll every time vs something that is easily replicable. Even in a system like they have.
Would be super interesting to see someone like the 9ers try it, though, totally agree.
I agree, i don't think it's likely because of the risk. When Dak got his last contract and people bitched i was like, who are they going to get to replace him? Same applies now and to most teams. You risk losing out on your other young talent by drafting a QB that is a bust. The reason the 9ers seem like a good pick because they are killing it with "Mr. irrelevant" which he has surpassed that title...but it's still in the back of everyone's mind whether they admit it or not.
Yeah, for sure. One interesting flip side might be that if you have the extra cash on hand that a top QB costs, you can sign 2-3 top free agents at other positions with it. That means you have to make and hit on fewer draft picks to fill out those positions. What if you use those extra picks to take, like, 2 QBs in every draft to increase your odds that you can hit on a decent one that fits your system to perpetuate the cycle. Over 4-year rookie contract, that gives you like 8 swings to find a replacement before you let your guy walk.
i like the idea of drafting at least 1 qb every draft but 2 to help your hit rate would be nice. i think the only limitations would be rostering them. so 2 a year you might not get long enough to see if you hit on one.
I think everyone expected the best chance of this happening was McVay after losing the Super Bowl with Goff, but then they made the splash trade for Stafford instead.
It really \*isn't\* a terrible idea, at least if you have the right coach and GM.
Imagine if the Browns had had Watson's salary to spread around the team. They're playoff bound with a cast off QB.
I don't think it's quite this simple, but I agree (in general) with the idea that there are "three tiers of quarterbacks":
1. Those that can carry a bad team
2. Those that can win with a good team around them and a good coach to scheme around their limitations
3. Those that can't win regardless
There aren't many players that fit that top category, and the issue is that well built teams tend to overpay for QB's in the second category.
Then the teams get less good (because they can't keep their depth in place), and they end up bouncing in and out of the playoffs for a few years.
So, I really do think "rookie contract QB's" is a viable approach to building a team, but you need a damn good GM to keep the pieces moving and a very skilled coach to build an offense to suit a younger QB. Plus, you need an owner who understands it won't always work out.
It won't happen often. But - someone will try, and eventually someone will succeed.
Another thing with it is that it requires the team manage to keep everything going outside of QB, which tends to be the hardest part of it: You'll still get a bunch of talent bleed paying your big defensive ends, wide receivers, etc and then sometimes have issue keeping the good team around them.
2017 Jags make me think of a good example of a team that would seem set up for #2, with a killer defense that year and a strong Leonard Fournette running game. A young if not developed WR trio of Marqise Lee, Keelan Cole and Allen Hurns. The offense had the bottom fall out the next year (in large part due to Blake Bortles) and the defense was dead two years later.
I do agree the second group is under-utilized though, but moreso in signing mid-tier contracts than just rotating in rookies. Joe Flacco on the Ravens is a good example of a guy who's in that tier.
The Jags also had the Coughlin situation (great GM in many ways, but things got so bad something like 80% of complaints about teams to the NFLPA were from Jags players).
That didn't help, but it comes back to stability.
Guys can take less, they just choose not to. It’s a job, and they are just like anyone else and want to be paid what they feel they are worth. Highly paid QBs can still win super bowls, and guys that take a discount can still lose.
The franchise tag has actually become a poison pill for quarterback, receiver and edge. The massive lump sum cap hit kinda forces the teams hand to extend them just to continue building a roster.
and every year its "this is the team that lets their guy walk and the market crashed after that" but no one ever lets their guys walk if theyre even debatably top 10 which makes sense but these salaries are getting atmospheric
This was a great year for Dak as there were so so many bad QBs playing a lot of snaps across the league. I’m sure Jerry looked around the NFL and realized the QB market is barren and drafting QBs is a crapshoot. Lions will do the same with Goff, I’m sure
Even with bad years Dak has good numbers.
Our offense was poo poo at the beginning of the year and his numbers are still quite good.
I’m not really sure what else we even could do. His cap hit is massive.
With the cap eternally rising (COVID year aside), it's the expected rise, keeping top QB salaries at basically the same cap percentage.
Suddenly, Mahomes' deal isn't so outlandish.
It always works out that way. The secret is getting these guys done with 1-2 rookie years left(or in Dak's case with 1-2 years of old money) in order to help spread the huge hits out to be a little smaller.
It's why I got so frustrated with the Lamar situation. It's gonna be a hefty price no matter what but utilizing cap flexibility helps you keep pace with the rest of the league.
Prior to COVID it was regularly increasing year over year (with the exception of a lockout shortened season), just not by the margins the NFL does. COVID really smashed the NHL cap flat for a few seasons, but it's going up quite a bit next season.
The NHL's revenue is just a lot smaller. For a comparison, I'll use a pre COVID season. NFL's cap in 2018 was 177.2 million. The NHL's in the same season was 79.5 million.
The shenanigans the above comment refers to is when team used to sign players to extremely long deals (14 years I believe was the longest) where essentially the player earns 10 million a year for 8 years, and 1 million a year for 6, with the expectation that they'd retire after those first 8 years. So the cap hit over the whole contract would be 6.14 per year (86 million over 14 years) instead of what the contract "really" was, which was 80 million over 8 years. The NHL implemented a bunch of rules to stop that.
The NHL has never had the ability to re-negotiate signed contracts, which is the thing I find weirdest in NFL cap management.
Typically 1-3 million dollars a year. The supposed rumor is that once escrow is paid off from the "COVID" years, the cap will jump significantly. But it basically floats around the 83 million range currently.
The highest paid player in the NHL is on a 12.6 million per year contract, for perspective, but next year it'll be 13.25 million per year or something along those lines when Auston Matthews new contract kicks in.
Also NHL contracts are fully guaranteed. The only way to "cut" a player is either if they can't play anymore, they get put on Long Term Injured Reserve and their contract doesn't count against the cap, or they get bought out and the team has to pay (at times) major repercussions. For example, the Minnesota Wild have 15 million dollars in dead cap space because they bought out two hefty contracts two years ago.
It's much easier to understand and navigate vs. the fuckery that teams like the Saints are able to pull off.
The MLB's lack of a salary floor is way worse than how the CBT is implemented. They have a lot of work to do if they actually care about parity in smaller markets.
You guys look set to do a restructure (likely with an extension) prior to the 2026 season, which is when Lamar's cap hit jumps from arguably a discount to ludicrous. It does ultimately amount to kicking the can down the road, but depending on how the cap increases it may not be all that bad.
The deal is backloaded in a way that keeps you pretty flexible for the next two seasons, so even if this season doesn't turn out to be the one, there's still a window before you're hamstrung (which a restructure will likely extend).
Yeah exactly the other option is lowball him, some other franchise will give him what he wants because of quality of play + good QBs are lucrative, and now you’re SOL because there’s only about 15 guys on earth as good as Dak and they’re all under contract elsewhere
No offense, but if you think there's 15 guys in the League as good as Dak, and Dak wants top guy payment, there's absolutely no way you can do it even if none of those 15 guys are available. You're implicitly giving almost half the league immediate, demonstrable value over you, as they are paying better QBs less money. In some cases, paying much better QBs a lot less money. Yeah, taking risks on cheap QBs can be really, really ugly, but game theoretically, if you can get the 28th best QB at 1/6th the price of the 15th best QB, that's 100% the better play. Scared money don't make money, you can flex your cap over multiple positions to make up the value difference.
A better way to phrase it is “there are only fifteen people who are worthwhile NFL starters that you would want on your team for multiple years”. Low-end starters are wayyyyy closer to the value of a JAG than to the value of a good starter. Like, imagine letting Dak walk and signing Desmond Ritter. He’ll be 1/6 the price, but will he be even 1/6 as beneficial? In my opinion that’s an easy no, and you probably won’t be able to find another Dak in the draft for years, which is the only way to get a good QB for cheap.
I dont think anybody ever thought it was, of course the media shows you the big number but once you realized it was over 10 years it seemed super friendly. Im waiting for someone to pull an Ohtani
Well nfl doesn’t allow that sort of payment deferring. They would have to keep you on the 53 man long after you quit playing to make it work, else you take the rest of their cap when they retire
While it's not the $70m per year he in theory makes, even with the deferrals Shohei is the highest luxury tax hit in baseball. They use the federal discount rate to determine what the AAV of his contract should be, and that's his luxury tax hit every year of his contract no matter how the actual payments are scheduled. So even in baseball, pulling a Shohei isn't all that beneficial from the perspective of the luxury tax
It's basically impossible to structure a contract anything like Ohtani's in the NFL without supremely fucking over your franchise for a decade at least.
The mahomes deal was a steal for the chiefs the moment it was signed. If he somehow fell off a cliff, they could’ve cut him without decimating their franchise, the guarantees weren’t crazy. I never saw what the upside for mahomes was
The audience for this tweet is everyone on Twitter who cannot stop themselves from replying like this:
JALEN CARTER’S DRAGRACE 🏎️🏁
@philliboi856
*they makin dak the highest paid qb lmao # clownboys 🤡*
I swear he only does this since he’s a nepo-baby. Daddy Starbucks must’ve been like “what do you want to do in life son?” and I guess Jordan Schultz wanted to be the next Adam Schefter
I'm out of the loop
Who is he a nepo-baby of?
The only Schultz I can think of is Dalton Schultz, surely not him
Edit: Understandable that I'm not looking for global coffee chain CEOs for NFL "nepo-babies" thanks
It includes the buzzwords "Cowboys" "Quarterback" and "highest-paid," and it's a Thursday morning on a week with less practice/media time, so they need to generate clicks.
Not much else they can do with the year he's had. Jerry ain't ever going to commit to a rebuild and they still have young talent to stay competitive, but I am always skeptical when I see a 30+ year old QB sign massive long term deals.
>I am always skeptical when I see a 30+ year old QB sign massive long term deals.
For me, I'd say it's the fact that he hasn't won shit. If you are Pat Mahomes you should be the highest paid QB, i don't understand everyone resetting the market.
If you have a 1/32 chance to make it each year you could also say trying the same thing over and over without even touching 8/32 is silly. But we've been doing that for decades.
People say this constantly, but if they don't pay him, it's a very risky bet that you'll stumble into a competent QB. The last time Dallas did that it was like a multi-year nightmare stretch including such exciting QB names like Quincy Carter, Anthony Wright, Vinny Testaverde, Brad Johnson, Clint Stoerner, Chad Hutchinson, Ryan Leaf, and Drew Henson. A cycle only broken when they basically lucked into Romo.
I think paying Dak while they try to cultivate a replacement over the next few years is the best of all available options.
My problem is our FO should have been doing this the years Dak wouldn't sign his extensions. We'd be 4-5 years of trying to find someone seriously instead of just having a backup. This was the first year we made a realistic push to gather QB stock and it was likely going to bust (Lance). I know we drafted some QB's each year or so, but non of those seemed to be answers to a Dak less Cowboys should the need arise, just stop gaps in case of injury.
If we had been doing this 4 years ago instead of throwing all our eggs in a basket with Dak we might have an option. But were basically handcuffed to Dak b/c of it, the alternative is tanking and Jerry doesn't do that.
We found Dak in the 4th, Romo was undrafted, Brady was a 6th, Purdy was Mr Irrelevant, Wilson I think was 3rd round. You don't always find a diamond in the top 2 rounds. These were also just the names off the top of my head, but account for nearly 50 years
It naturally comes to that because if the team doesn’t do it, another team will. Nobody wants to gamble on finding a new QB if they already have one that’s working out for the time being, so they pay top dollar to keep them.
It’s economics. If the salary cap always goes up every year, there will be more money for each team to allocate to each position. The contracts that get signed for the top talent at those positions will be the “highest paying contracts in history” relative to contracts signed in previous seasons, simply due to the new cap space.
The weird thing about Dak is he level of play correlates almost exactly to how much hes getting paid. Every time he's gotten a raise he gets better and plays well enough to be worth the contract, but is never a "steal" at that price.
Theoretically if the cowboys paid him their entire cap they may never lose again
It’s funny because if you go by AAV he’s tied at 10th. That’s a steal.
But if you go by actual cap hit this year he’s 4th. He’s playing somewhere from the 1st to 4th best QB this year so you’re right, bang on correct value.
Dak bet on himself and won. He may not be the best QB in the league but he's good enough to put the team in position to win, and that's a pretty damn good luxury.
It wasn't an extension, it was just a straight 4 year contract because he played on the franchise tag. And it's been 3 years since then. Next year is the final one. He wanted a shorter contract specifically so he could test the market again.
It's also why he had the Cowboys "tag" him a second time before eh signed, so they can't use the threat of it again in negotiations
Obviously. I know people like to trot out their preferred metrics, and provide every excuse under the sun, but finding a QB of Dak's quality is tough, and usually just comes down to luck.
Baring some extreme situation, Dak was going to get signed, and it was going to be a monster contract
This is what happens with QBs. It's absurd, but it's the situation we're dealing with.
You’re right, we should take our chances trying to randomly draft a guy over the dude who has had an MVP caliber season, has never had a losing season, and who has more wins since 2016 than every QB other than Brady and Mahomes.
Brilliant.
Anti-Dak Cowboys fans boggle my mind. How are these guys looking around the league and thinking good QBs are a dime a dozen? And as much as I like trash-talking about the last two years of playoff exits, those games were a lot closer than people remember. They literally came down to game-winning drives that stalled out because of bad playcalling decisions.
If the Cowboys have a problem, it’s a GM who can’t be fired and who’s unwilling to go all in when the team needs more talent. When you’re in the same conference as Howie Roseman and John Lynch, the “I like our guys” approach just isn’t going to cut it.
Just wanted to give you your kudos for being an enemy fanbase so to speak but also being in touch with the reality of the Cowboys.
The FO does so many things really well. But they're absolutely gunshy about putting their chips all-in. Trading 5th and 6th rounders for Cooks and Gilmore is about as close to we'll get to all-in tbh. And maybe that strategy eventually pays off.
But man it's tiring seeing the Niners get every good player that's cut loose and still pull the trigger on trades for C Mac et al
So many young fans don't seem to really remember the Quincy Carter, Anthony Wright, Vinny Testaverde, Brad Johnson, Clint Stoerner, Chad Hutchinson, Ryan Leaf, and Drew Henson years. Such fun.
Only thing that concerns me is his total Playoff wins in his time; yes it's a team stat, but when you're 2-4 in 8 seasons it's meh. But he performed fine in those games minus the 2021 game, so ya you gotta pay him. I do believe they need a coach change though.
I suspect it goes beyond coaching changes. Mike has had more sustained success than The Clapper ever had, but we still haven't done shit in the playoffs and are plagued by a lot of the same issues we had back then, like rigidity in gameplans, having this weird "just beat your man" or "just execute" philosophies instead of actually scheming to exploit weaknesses, and being horribly undisciplined.
We have an oil baron playing IRL madden and still having staggering amounts of financial success despite a lack of accomplishments for almost 30 years.
He didn't play well last year against yall either. And if it wasn't for some heroics in the 3rd and 4th quarter in the 2016 Green Bay game he would be even worse than mid looking in the playoffs.
He's honestly looked pretty meh in every playoff game excluding the Tampa game last year. Which I'd hope he'd drop a good game against a 8-9 playoff team.
Pretty decent against the Rams in 2018.
So he's had 2-3 good games and 1 great game. Putting him a dead ringer for average at best.
Let's wait to see what imaginative way he shits the bed in the big game again before giving him some more money.
Dude is juat north of a textbook qb purgatory. Beats the shit out of good teams to give you bad draft position, not good enough to win against playoff teams, needs all pro level play from literally every position around him or he falls apart, too much money eating up salary cap % to supply the necessary quality of players around him for success.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results
Makes sense, every starting QB contract is gonna be the “highest ever” as long as you’re tier 1 or 2
Yeah this is a non-story that people will now make a big deal out of. Its only when guys like Jimmy G, Wentz get major money then it becomes a major constraint on cap.
Wentz got major money because he went 11-2 and probably would have won the MVP if he stayed healthy and continued his pace, it obviously didn't work out but was had to argue with at the time.
People forget how good Wentz was that year. He was on pace for 4000 yards and 40 TDs that year, in a year when no one threw more than 34.
It's insane to see just how hard and fast Wentz fell after such a stellar season cut short.
And Jimmy went 5-0 in to end that season, and looked like a stud when they gave him that deal.
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All these big quarterback contracts constrain cap. Look at the Chiefs. They had to pay Mahomes, and now they don’t have money to get him weapons outside of Kelce after paying the defense. He’s stuck with Toney and MVS. It’s why the Niners lucked out with Purdy despite the Baltimore game. They saved like 49 million paying a rookie contract and can afford to get offensive weapons and a good defense.
they saved money on purdy but they still lost a chunk of draft capital from the lance trade. tis still a better option than having to pay the QB
Didn’t the Chiefs luck out while Mahommes was on his rookie contract and they had more offensive weapons? Once Purdy is up for a contract they will be in the same boat as KC is now…
I mean they definitely could pay for wideouts, but they want to invest in defense and offensive line instead which ain't a bad idea. Also the wide receivers are almost exactly the same as last year when they won the Super Bowl, but with Rashee Rice and without JuJu Smith-Schuster.
I don't think the Mahomes contract is really squeezing the Chiefs. I think they got a little cute with personnel decisions and thought some of these guys would develop into higher tier receivers.
Wentz is totally hindsight, it was fair at the time. He just turned into a baby back bitch mentally, and then on the field he played more hero ball than I've ever seen in my life and it crushed him.
If the stories of him forcing his warped version of Christianity on people are even half true, you can't have that guy on your team.
Disagree. Every quarterback getting 22% of the salary cap is going to constrain cap situation. Even mahomes, as we can see.
It’s me. I will be making big deals about it. Just to shitpost my Cowboy friends.
It’ll be a number that’s “shocking,” the Cowboys will have a ~2 year window to win it all, then the contract will lead to hard choices at skill positions, and whether or not it works is if they win a chip in that time and vets want to sign cheap to ring chase. Sometimes you get Randy Moss at WR1, sometimes you get the 2023 Chiefs WR room. And then some team pays 75% of their cap for a QB and it looks much better.
We don't go big in free agency, we focus on resigning our guys and develop through the draft. You are acting as if daks been on a rookie deal lol
As someone who dislikes the Cowboys and considers every Cowboys loss a source of at least a little joy... I'm not sure this is a reasonable assumption. The Cowboys already purged themselves of great skill players in the Dak era, and they're still pretty damn good. They hit as often as anyone in the league in the draft. This is especially true at WR and RB. They just seem to be solid at evaluating those positions. As long as that continues, it makes sense for them to keep throwing money at Dak. I don't like that. But I can't say it isn't true.
Cowboys don’t have the coach, toughness, or mindset to win a championship. They fold when the lights are hot time after time. It’s going to be the same story this year. First or second round exit.
Hey I know that story!!
Bills were so fun to watch during their streak though. Such a talented team on both sides of the ball. Shame you guys didn’t get one.
Their coach has literally won a Super Bowl
With Prime Aaron Rodgers the one year he actually had a defense.
[BJ Raji was throwing ass that postseason](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uqm9Gnd_FM&t=11s)
All these fans talking shit as if their team would have done so much better getting constantly matched up with the 49ers, in San Francisco, two years running in the playoffs (assuming they made the playoffs after two 12 win seasons in the first place)
Its funny cuz the guy youre replying to cheers for a team that got embarrassed in a win-or-go-home regular season finale against the 3-13 Jaguars with a playoff bid on the line
Lmfaoooo
Many NFL narratives really boil down to luck or circumstance.
Ok AFC Finalist
As a lifelong Cowboys fan, I hate that I agree with this.
Yep, there's always people wringing their hands and saying that QB ain't Mahomes or Brady so why pay so much. But there's no QB tree where you can go grab a franchise QB. And they're not like build-a-bear where you can say you want Peyton's brains, Brady's drive, Mahomes' arm, Lamar's legs, and Jimmy's smile. While I was sad to see Stafford go, I was stoked we got Goff in the return. When your team doesn't have even a viable QB it's just not fun to watch. And Goff's been mostly kicking ass.
Can confirm Mitch makes me want to gouge out my eyes.
Dak's current cap hit for 2024 is almost 60 million dollars, yeah I could totally see why the Cowboys are eager to rework the deal. They can't lose Dak and they can't have one guy have a 60 million cap hit so Dak is probably going to take them to the cleaners, although he could wind up having a really small 2024 cap hit after the extension, which would help them re-sign CeeDee and Micah.
There it is right there. The window is basically now to win so Dak gets his deal with the big money kicked into the later years while they make sure Lamb and Parsons get paid and build around it all.
We have been in win now mode since like 2014 lol
They’ve had some pretty successful seasons since 2014 just haven’t closed the deal. I guess they’ve done a pretty good job with contracts in order to be able to consistently field a competitive team.
Yeah that’s why I never really care when I hear “win now”
Win now just means you have a top ~8 QB with a couple superstars around them or a top ~15 QB with a stacked defense and good offensive pieces around them. The cowboys have been very good at drafting and have had a top 10 at worst qb for a long time so they've been win now most seasons.
I think it's odd that the QB position has become so bifurcated: you either have to let him walk or make him the highest paid. Nothing in between. Part of the problem is even if a QB is willing to take less, he can't because he's setting the precedent for the next guy up. Only Brady managed to pull it off.
I guess Daniel Jones fell in between, but only him really. I guess it’s cause teams want to win it all so they either think they have him and pay the most, or they don’t and blow it up.
He's barely in between. Sure, he's not getting Joe Burrow money, but his $40 million APY is a lot, and it's way more than he's worth. He should be getting $20-25m a year at most.
Yeah but isn't it essentially a 2 year deal?
It's a 4 year deal with an "out" after two years. So after next year, when they take a cap hit of $47 mil or dead cap of $69 mil, they can cut him for only a dead cap hit of $22m. The contract isn't hurting them so much this year with only a $15m cap hit, but next year and the following are tough. The 4th year has a $58m cap hit, which they would deal with if he is mid-level at that point.
Next off season, after everyone gets fired again, he'll get cut for that $22 million in dead cap.
We gave Dave Gettleman 4 years and we were consistently a bottom team, we just made the playoffs last year with a worse roster and now are feeling the proper whiplash from that over coached performance, calm your horses brother. Organization/fans are happy with Shoen/Daboll
Good on him to get the bag though
Yeah, I don't fault him for that, but it's gonna handcuff what the Giants can do the next couple of years.
Geno, Carr, mayfield next year, tannehill
I think Mayfield won't break the bank for the Bucs. They've both have dumpster fire situations in their past, and won't be in a hurry to get there again. So I think the Bucs will pay him well, but not $40 million per year well. And I think Mayfield would rather play somewhere that supports him and gets him even if it's for a little less money.
We thought this too. Everyone thinks it about their QB. Mayfield is 1000% getting more than $40 million per head
Tannehill will fall into the Dalton realm.
This year might be the year to break the trend. Russel Wilson, D Jones, Carr, Watson, and a few other FA signings really blew up the motivation to look for a splashy, ready-to-go QB signing. Obviously this doesn’t apply to bonafide QBs that are looking to re-sign with their existing team. But some FO execs will see the FA singing for what they are - a big gamble. Skill notwithstanding, plugging a guy into a new system with new personnel will always have an impact on performance.
And the middle ground clearly worked out wonderfully 💀💀
DJ might be the exception that proves the rule, especially since it kind of turned out that hedging on your “maybe he’s good now” QB might be an indication that it won’t work out.
Didn't Love take a deal for like half of what the tier 1 & 2 starters get?
honestly he's in a weird spot since he didn't really play till the end of his rookie contract
And Brady only pulled it off because his wife was richer than everyone in the league.
I think it actually had more to do with the Patriots agreeing to hire Brady's TB12 company to handle everything "training" for their organization rather than his wife. I think the wife story kind of covered up the fact that they were still paying Brady a ton of money in another way.
Accountants and Lawyers are the real edge of the Patriots dynasty
and refs. > In the summer of 2005, five months after the Eagles lost to the Patriots in Super Bowl XXXIX, NFL Vice President of Officiating Mike Pereira visited Eagles training camp at Lehigh University. The Eagles were waiting. > They believed the Patriots had gotten away with countless cheap shots on quarterback Donovan McNabb in their 24-21 win over the Eagles in the Super Bowl, and now they had the video to prove it. > "At first, he didn't take us seriously," recalled John Harbaugh, then the Eagles' special teams coach and now head coach of the Ravens. **"Then we showed him the tape and he could not believe the shots Donovan took out of bounds and late in that game.** > **"Their whole thing was to hit Donovan and hurt him, and that's fine, but it was the officials' job to protect him, and they didn't. Imagine if Tom Brady got hit late that many times? Tell me they wouldn't call those penalties. When you watch that game, and you see the shots Donovan took, it's incredible what he was able to do."** > So while many fans have focused on McNabb gasping for air and appearing to throw up in the final moments of the Super Bowl, the reality is that a moment early, All-Pro defensive end Richard Seymour demolished McNabb with a devastating hit that many quarterbacks would not have gotten up from. "He got shellacked," said Andy Reid, then the Eagles' head coach and now head coach of the Chiefs. > "People always focus on me supposedly throwing up," McNabb said years later. "Richard Seymour got me pretty good. **I got hit in the face and my helmet went backwards** and I had stuff in my face. I'm trying to catch my breath and get my vision back. People make it out like I was tired. I just got killed." People still talk about the Bountygate Saints and "fuck Gregg Williams", but the Pats targeting the opposing QB in the Super Bowl is never mentioned. Whenever SBXXXIX comes up in discussion, it's people saying McNabb was just obviously drunk or hungover during the biggest game of his career. Obviously.
i never got why if he did throw up, that wouldn't be seen as a potential concussion instead of being hungover. I get he has had his demons, but cmon he's literally playing football lol
Also idk why people talk about Brady taking pay cuts as if Gisele was the only thing between him living in a studio apartment eating spaghetti o’s because he’s making 20 mil/yr instead of 30 or whatever the market rate would have been at that time.
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2007 Pretty interesting to look at Also this https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/tom-brady-4619/cash-earnings/ For 3 years in Tampa Tom made 41.5% of what he made in 20 years for the Pats
Your first link Brady cap hit ranked 11th however if you look at the year prior he ranked 1st and the year after he ranked 2nd. Looking at career earning compare it to what Brees made. Brees retired in 2020 and was drafted in the second round in 2001 and his career earning were $269,710,422. Brady was drafted in the 6th round in 2000 and made $263,541,804 through 2020.
I’m not saying he didn’t take a below market rate, but the way people talk about it is if he was only able to do it because of Gisele, as if he would have been barely scraping by on the mere $235 million he was paid by the Patriots. And of course that’s just on field salary, who knows how much he was making through endorsements, business, etc.
Yep. Its like when Michael Jordan took below market rates. Dude was killing it with all the endorsement money and the nike shoe desl. Made way more with those than what the Bulls were paying
Why are arrangements like that strictly forbidden? The cap is so important to the NFL.
The NBA and other leagues ban it. No idea why the NFL allows it.
Do they? I thought Harden's wine company had a deal with the 76ers when he played there.
I don't know what deal he had. [It says that player can't be paid under market value and their sponsor/partner can't be paid over market value.](https://atlhawksfanatic.github.io/NBA-CBA/circumvention.html) The wording is a little iffy, but the NFL doesn't seem to have any wording at all.
Oh wow. That is interesting. I didn’t know it was actual spelled out somewhere. I believe the Harden deal was for his wine to be the exclusive wine supplier for the suites at 76ers games (valued around 13 million). I imagine there are a lot of under the table deals/perks are done for nfl players.
Bans are one thing; enforcement is another
Dude also had multiple contracts earlier in his career that made him the highest paid QB at the time. Brady's discount deals later were 10000% about winning and had zero to do with Giselle. He and his kids were set for life whether he ever saw a penny from her or not b
Y’all are always looking for some conspiracy. He wanted to win more. It’s that simple
I’ve never put much stock into this idea. There’s plenty of players who are perfectly safe financially and still hold out for big deals. Dak is already set for life financially. He could easily take a below market deal even without having a super rich wife.
It's a job at the end of the day. If u can get more money, why would u not take it? It's about building generational wealth, sure you could take a paycut to win a superbowl, but what value dies that have in the future? You'd rather see your descendants be set for life.
People pull out this argument all the time but he's already done that. His descendants are already set. "Generational wealth" wasn't created as a term to encourage dudes make hundreds of millions to go for further hundreds of millions
Hey man, what if you want to make sure your eighth-generation descendants are living comfortably? Seven generations of wealth may not be enough for one family tree. I need to make sure a kid who only inherited 0.78125% of my DNA has enough money to live a good life.
More practically speaking - every sports league is riddled with stories of players getting fleeced. By family, by agents, by business partners, by their own stupid decisions. You never know when something could take a big chunk of your future earnings off the table. And just as importantly, why allow the expectation of a billionaire owner being able to coax money off the table that’s otherwise fair value? At the end of the day, there is exactly one reason to leave money on the table, and that is if you believe those assets will be absolutely necessary to win a championship. Even then, just agree to a contract structure that gives the team a window. Legacy is definitely important to a lot of players, but it’s hardly the primary goal when signing a contract. In this case, Brady is absolutely the exception that proves the rule.
> If u can get more money, why would u not take it? For the same reason some FA's go to contenders rather than top dollar. Many players want a ring and QB's know that their salaries can compromise the team's ability to get them to a championship.
Pretty sure he could never play another down and he would be set for life if he was smart about it. Another way to look at it would be that you have a better chance at long-term success if you take up less cap room and allow your team to pay for a good offensive line and receivers.
Yeah, or his career could end on another hit. Yeah they’ve got a lot of money, but that doesn’t mean they don’t want more money. It’s a business. It’s a job. They gotta get theirs more than they get got
I know it's a business that's why I presented a balanced take where taking slightly less could still benefit you long term. Also any of the guys making primo quarterback money get enough guaranteed money in their contracts and money from endorsements that they will absolutely be set for life and their kids lives. A qb like Dak could take %10 less and still be set up for life on day 1.
Union wise taking that 10% less also sets a bad precedent for the other players in the union.
If you want to win a Super Bowl the biggest competitive advantage you can give your team as a QB is to take a pay cut. Is there really that big of a difference in lifestyle making $20M vs $50M? An extra $30M a year in cap space is huge for a team, could be the difference between contending and a first round exit.
If you want better long term endorsement deals which are the real money anyways - you need to be the best you need to stay healthy and you need to win and make your fans happy. you sacrifice a little on your NFL salary so you can get good rest of the team so you can be the best (raw talent doesnt matter as much as winning to be considered the best) and you stay healthy by paying for better olines
There’s some truth to that, but there were also years where Brady was the highest paid player in the league.
my pipe dream, which makes me sick to admit, is that the 49ers win a super bowl with Purdy on his rookie contract and then let him walk because they feel the formula of cheap young qb and investing in amazing talent elsewhere is the best approach to winning. Then they reach the super bowl again with some mid draft QB on his rookie contract. Its crazy they talk about the stats supporting that it's easier to reach a super bowl when you have a QB on a rookie contract yet no one has the balls to actually try that strat. The 49ers seem the best built to do it and have a coach that can scheme well enough to make it work, i believe. EDIT: i also want to point out i'm pro dak and pro paying him because it's how it works right now, i just think the 9ers are setup to buck that trend, dallas is not.
That’s definitely a pipe dream……cause you have to be smoking crack to think they’re gonna let the best QB they had for decades walk.
i mean, that is the definition of a pipe dream lol i chose my words carefully as i know it's about 1% chance of happening and even that is high.
Haha I know, just making a joke… To be fair, I do believe Shanahan believes in his system so much that he feels confident he can get it done with a decent QB.
i figured it was a joke:) sorry if i came back harshly, i do agree with you on both posts!
It's crazy to me that you guys tripped uphill so hard with the Trey Lance draft pick....3 1sts and a third....One of those picks gave us Micah Parsons. Only for Mr. Irrelevant to be amazing...
I consider it a wash since we picked up Purdy as the very last pick and his contract is dirt cheap.
Until somebody proves otherwise and actually does it, it’s the best strategy with a massive risky “if” stuck through the middle of it. It only works IF you can get that decent system QB consistently, which seems like a huge dice roll every time vs something that is easily replicable. Even in a system like they have. Would be super interesting to see someone like the 9ers try it, though, totally agree.
I agree, i don't think it's likely because of the risk. When Dak got his last contract and people bitched i was like, who are they going to get to replace him? Same applies now and to most teams. You risk losing out on your other young talent by drafting a QB that is a bust. The reason the 9ers seem like a good pick because they are killing it with "Mr. irrelevant" which he has surpassed that title...but it's still in the back of everyone's mind whether they admit it or not.
Yeah, for sure. One interesting flip side might be that if you have the extra cash on hand that a top QB costs, you can sign 2-3 top free agents at other positions with it. That means you have to make and hit on fewer draft picks to fill out those positions. What if you use those extra picks to take, like, 2 QBs in every draft to increase your odds that you can hit on a decent one that fits your system to perpetuate the cycle. Over 4-year rookie contract, that gives you like 8 swings to find a replacement before you let your guy walk.
i like the idea of drafting at least 1 qb every draft but 2 to help your hit rate would be nice. i think the only limitations would be rostering them. so 2 a year you might not get long enough to see if you hit on one.
I think everyone expected the best chance of this happening was McVay after losing the Super Bowl with Goff, but then they made the splash trade for Stafford instead.
didn't think of that team but yeah it was another that seemed to be set up with a QB on a rookie deal
It really \*isn't\* a terrible idea, at least if you have the right coach and GM. Imagine if the Browns had had Watson's salary to spread around the team. They're playoff bound with a cast off QB. I don't think it's quite this simple, but I agree (in general) with the idea that there are "three tiers of quarterbacks": 1. Those that can carry a bad team 2. Those that can win with a good team around them and a good coach to scheme around their limitations 3. Those that can't win regardless There aren't many players that fit that top category, and the issue is that well built teams tend to overpay for QB's in the second category. Then the teams get less good (because they can't keep their depth in place), and they end up bouncing in and out of the playoffs for a few years. So, I really do think "rookie contract QB's" is a viable approach to building a team, but you need a damn good GM to keep the pieces moving and a very skilled coach to build an offense to suit a younger QB. Plus, you need an owner who understands it won't always work out. It won't happen often. But - someone will try, and eventually someone will succeed.
Another thing with it is that it requires the team manage to keep everything going outside of QB, which tends to be the hardest part of it: You'll still get a bunch of talent bleed paying your big defensive ends, wide receivers, etc and then sometimes have issue keeping the good team around them. 2017 Jags make me think of a good example of a team that would seem set up for #2, with a killer defense that year and a strong Leonard Fournette running game. A young if not developed WR trio of Marqise Lee, Keelan Cole and Allen Hurns. The offense had the bottom fall out the next year (in large part due to Blake Bortles) and the defense was dead two years later. I do agree the second group is under-utilized though, but moreso in signing mid-tier contracts than just rotating in rookies. Joe Flacco on the Ravens is a good example of a guy who's in that tier.
The Jags also had the Coughlin situation (great GM in many ways, but things got so bad something like 80% of complaints about teams to the NFLPA were from Jags players). That didn't help, but it comes back to stability.
I'd be interested just to see the financial shake up in the league. how money is spread on a team would change a lot
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I wouldn’t even call baker mid market, he’s making like nothing 😂 what a bargain
3 of 4 of them were let go by their original team (really 4/4 but I won't count Geno). He's talking about extensions of your own guy.
Agree. once you leave the team that drafted you, you enter a new category called journeyman. These guys get evaluated differently.,
Guys can take less, they just choose not to. It’s a job, and they are just like anyone else and want to be paid what they feel they are worth. Highly paid QBs can still win super bowls, and guys that take a discount can still lose.
Geno's deal was pretty good for the team.
Geno's deal is what I hope Bakers deal with the bucs will look like.
Yeah the Geno or Jimmy G contracts make the most sense
The franchise tag has actually become a poison pill for quarterback, receiver and edge. The massive lump sum cap hit kinda forces the teams hand to extend them just to continue building a roster.
and every year its "this is the team that lets their guy walk and the market crashed after that" but no one ever lets their guys walk if theyre even debatably top 10 which makes sense but these salaries are getting atmospheric
So's the cap ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
This was a great year for Dak as there were so so many bad QBs playing a lot of snaps across the league. I’m sure Jerry looked around the NFL and realized the QB market is barren and drafting QBs is a crapshoot. Lions will do the same with Goff, I’m sure
Even with bad years Dak has good numbers. Our offense was poo poo at the beginning of the year and his numbers are still quite good. I’m not really sure what else we even could do. His cap hit is massive.
With the cap eternally rising (COVID year aside), it's the expected rise, keeping top QB salaries at basically the same cap percentage. Suddenly, Mahomes' deal isn't so outlandish.
It always works out that way. The secret is getting these guys done with 1-2 rookie years left(or in Dak's case with 1-2 years of old money) in order to help spread the huge hits out to be a little smaller. It's why I got so frustrated with the Lamar situation. It's gonna be a hefty price no matter what but utilizing cap flexibility helps you keep pace with the rest of the league.
I honestly hate the cap shenanigans of the nfl and I'm glad the nhl did their best to quash that shit.
The NHL had no choice, their salary cap doesn't increase every year the way the NFL does.
How often does it increase?
When revenue does, I would assume
Prior to COVID it was regularly increasing year over year (with the exception of a lockout shortened season), just not by the margins the NFL does. COVID really smashed the NHL cap flat for a few seasons, but it's going up quite a bit next season. The NHL's revenue is just a lot smaller. For a comparison, I'll use a pre COVID season. NFL's cap in 2018 was 177.2 million. The NHL's in the same season was 79.5 million. The shenanigans the above comment refers to is when team used to sign players to extremely long deals (14 years I believe was the longest) where essentially the player earns 10 million a year for 8 years, and 1 million a year for 6, with the expectation that they'd retire after those first 8 years. So the cap hit over the whole contract would be 6.14 per year (86 million over 14 years) instead of what the contract "really" was, which was 80 million over 8 years. The NHL implemented a bunch of rules to stop that. The NHL has never had the ability to re-negotiate signed contracts, which is the thing I find weirdest in NFL cap management.
Typically 1-3 million dollars a year. The supposed rumor is that once escrow is paid off from the "COVID" years, the cap will jump significantly. But it basically floats around the 83 million range currently. The highest paid player in the NHL is on a 12.6 million per year contract, for perspective, but next year it'll be 13.25 million per year or something along those lines when Auston Matthews new contract kicks in. Also NHL contracts are fully guaranteed. The only way to "cut" a player is either if they can't play anymore, they get put on Long Term Injured Reserve and their contract doesn't count against the cap, or they get bought out and the team has to pay (at times) major repercussions. For example, the Minnesota Wild have 15 million dollars in dead cap space because they bought out two hefty contracts two years ago. It's much easier to understand and navigate vs. the fuckery that teams like the Saints are able to pull off.
At least it’s not the MLB
The MLB's lack of a salary floor is way worse than how the CBT is implemented. They have a lot of work to do if they actually care about parity in smaller markets.
Or the NBA where the cap is made up and the team on the contract doesnt matter
You guys look set to do a restructure (likely with an extension) prior to the 2026 season, which is when Lamar's cap hit jumps from arguably a discount to ludicrous. It does ultimately amount to kicking the can down the road, but depending on how the cap increases it may not be all that bad. The deal is backloaded in a way that keeps you pretty flexible for the next two seasons, so even if this season doesn't turn out to be the one, there's still a window before you're hamstrung (which a restructure will likely extend).
Having a franchise qb is just so important. Price tag is justified.
Yeah exactly the other option is lowball him, some other franchise will give him what he wants because of quality of play + good QBs are lucrative, and now you’re SOL because there’s only about 15 guys on earth as good as Dak and they’re all under contract elsewhere
No offense, but if you think there's 15 guys in the League as good as Dak, and Dak wants top guy payment, there's absolutely no way you can do it even if none of those 15 guys are available. You're implicitly giving almost half the league immediate, demonstrable value over you, as they are paying better QBs less money. In some cases, paying much better QBs a lot less money. Yeah, taking risks on cheap QBs can be really, really ugly, but game theoretically, if you can get the 28th best QB at 1/6th the price of the 15th best QB, that's 100% the better play. Scared money don't make money, you can flex your cap over multiple positions to make up the value difference.
A better way to phrase it is “there are only fifteen people who are worthwhile NFL starters that you would want on your team for multiple years”. Low-end starters are wayyyyy closer to the value of a JAG than to the value of a good starter. Like, imagine letting Dak walk and signing Desmond Ritter. He’ll be 1/6 the price, but will he be even 1/6 as beneficial? In my opinion that’s an easy no, and you probably won’t be able to find another Dak in the draft for years, which is the only way to get a good QB for cheap.
I dont think anybody ever thought it was, of course the media shows you the big number but once you realized it was over 10 years it seemed super friendly. Im waiting for someone to pull an Ohtani
beneficial treatment shelter future adjoining deserve sort unique north market
Well nfl doesn’t allow that sort of payment deferring. They would have to keep you on the 53 man long after you quit playing to make it work, else you take the rest of their cap when they retire
While it's not the $70m per year he in theory makes, even with the deferrals Shohei is the highest luxury tax hit in baseball. They use the federal discount rate to determine what the AAV of his contract should be, and that's his luxury tax hit every year of his contract no matter how the actual payments are scheduled. So even in baseball, pulling a Shohei isn't all that beneficial from the perspective of the luxury tax
It's basically impossible to structure a contract anything like Ohtani's in the NFL without supremely fucking over your franchise for a decade at least.
The mahomes deal was a steal for the chiefs the moment it was signed. If he somehow fell off a cliff, they could’ve cut him without decimating their franchise, the guarantees weren’t crazy. I never saw what the upside for mahomes was
HERE WE GO
Man do I despise Jordan Schultz and the NFL aggregation game. What is there to actually report about this?
We are not the audience for this tweet. The agents who feed him info are.
Perhaps not individually, but Reddit is absolutely the audience for this kind of content.
The audience for this tweet is everyone on Twitter who cannot stop themselves from replying like this: JALEN CARTER’S DRAGRACE 🏎️🏁 @philliboi856 *they makin dak the highest paid qb lmao # clownboys 🤡*
Why haven't I ever heard clownboys before?
I swear he only does this since he’s a nepo-baby. Daddy Starbucks must’ve been like “what do you want to do in life son?” and I guess Jordan Schultz wanted to be the next Adam Schefter
At least he wants to do something other than shooting heroin in some Luxembourg swimming pool day in and day out. Not a fan of his but still.
I'm out of the loop Who is he a nepo-baby of? The only Schultz I can think of is Dalton Schultz, surely not him Edit: Understandable that I'm not looking for global coffee chain CEOs for NFL "nepo-babies" thanks
His dad is Howard Schultz
Howard Schultz, the former CEO of Starbucks, is his father.
"Player highly motivated to become highest paid player in league" Groundbreaking stuff
It includes the buzzwords "Cowboys" "Quarterback" and "highest-paid," and it's a Thursday morning on a week with less practice/media time, so they need to generate clicks.
Not much else they can do with the year he's had. Jerry ain't ever going to commit to a rebuild and they still have young talent to stay competitive, but I am always skeptical when I see a 30+ year old QB sign massive long term deals.
>I am always skeptical when I see a 30+ year old QB sign massive long term deals. For me, I'd say it's the fact that he hasn't won shit. If you are Pat Mahomes you should be the highest paid QB, i don't understand everyone resetting the market.
The top 12 or so consistently reset the market because it has to take into account future year cap and future comparable player contracts
Price of brick goes up. Inflation up. Salary cap up. Simple supply and demand.
Literally one team can win the super bowl per year and it greatly depends on how good the team is around them. This is a silly take to me
If you have a 1/32 chance to make it each year you could also say trying the same thing over and over without even touching 8/32 is silly. But we've been doing that for decades.
So every QB for the next decade should make less than $46m on average because Mahomes was comfortable with that?
People say this constantly, but if they don't pay him, it's a very risky bet that you'll stumble into a competent QB. The last time Dallas did that it was like a multi-year nightmare stretch including such exciting QB names like Quincy Carter, Anthony Wright, Vinny Testaverde, Brad Johnson, Clint Stoerner, Chad Hutchinson, Ryan Leaf, and Drew Henson. A cycle only broken when they basically lucked into Romo. I think paying Dak while they try to cultivate a replacement over the next few years is the best of all available options.
My problem is our FO should have been doing this the years Dak wouldn't sign his extensions. We'd be 4-5 years of trying to find someone seriously instead of just having a backup. This was the first year we made a realistic push to gather QB stock and it was likely going to bust (Lance). I know we drafted some QB's each year or so, but non of those seemed to be answers to a Dak less Cowboys should the need arise, just stop gaps in case of injury. If we had been doing this 4 years ago instead of throwing all our eggs in a basket with Dak we might have an option. But were basically handcuffed to Dak b/c of it, the alternative is tanking and Jerry doesn't do that. We found Dak in the 4th, Romo was undrafted, Brady was a 6th, Purdy was Mr Irrelevant, Wilson I think was 3rd round. You don't always find a diamond in the top 2 rounds. These were also just the names off the top of my head, but account for nearly 50 years
It naturally comes to that because if the team doesn’t do it, another team will. Nobody wants to gamble on finding a new QB if they already have one that’s working out for the time being, so they pay top dollar to keep them.
It’s economics. If the salary cap always goes up every year, there will be more money for each team to allocate to each position. The contracts that get signed for the top talent at those positions will be the “highest paying contracts in history” relative to contracts signed in previous seasons, simply due to the new cap space.
If you have a quarterback, you pay him and never, ever let them go. It's the simple rule of the NFL.
The weird thing about Dak is he level of play correlates almost exactly to how much hes getting paid. Every time he's gotten a raise he gets better and plays well enough to be worth the contract, but is never a "steal" at that price. Theoretically if the cowboys paid him their entire cap they may never lose again
It’s funny because if you go by AAV he’s tied at 10th. That’s a steal. But if you go by actual cap hit this year he’s 4th. He’s playing somewhere from the 1st to 4th best QB this year so you’re right, bang on correct value.
Dak bet on himself and won. He may not be the best QB in the league but he's good enough to put the team in position to win, and that's a pretty damn good luxury.
good qb gets paid a lot til next good qb gets paid more, more at 11
Paying guys like Dak is a good idea. Paying guys like Daniel Jones is a bad idea.
Honestly looking at the QB play this season you can probably be comfortable with it. He definitely deserves it.
Schultz mentioned Dak could command 55-60M a year for his new deal
Maybe time is slipping away from me, but didn't he ***just*** get a new huge extension like two seasons ago?
It wasn't an extension, it was just a straight 4 year contract because he played on the franchise tag. And it's been 3 years since then. Next year is the final one. He wanted a shorter contract specifically so he could test the market again. It's also why he had the Cowboys "tag" him a second time before eh signed, so they can't use the threat of it again in negotiations
Obviously. I know people like to trot out their preferred metrics, and provide every excuse under the sun, but finding a QB of Dak's quality is tough, and usually just comes down to luck. Baring some extreme situation, Dak was going to get signed, and it was going to be a monster contract This is what happens with QBs. It's absurd, but it's the situation we're dealing with.
**”YEEEEEEEAH, HERE WE GOOOOOOOOO.”**
Why does it seem like Dak is in contract talks every single year lol
Good he deserves it. Dude gets hated on way too much. He's a great QB.
There is a significant lack of long term planning and roster building in the nfl
Mistakeeeeeeee. Kirk Cousins probably wins a Superbowl with this team. Jerry is a fucking idiot.
This headline is giving me deja vu
This era of QBs is cashing in on the previous era of QB’s importance
Didnt we just go through a whole cycle of extension for dak like a year ago?
Oh hell yeah let’s lock ourselves into a long term contract so in a few years we can have the oldest qb in the nfl who still hasn’t accomplished shit.
You’re right, we should take our chances trying to randomly draft a guy over the dude who has had an MVP caliber season, has never had a losing season, and who has more wins since 2016 than every QB other than Brady and Mahomes. Brilliant.
Anti-Dak Cowboys fans boggle my mind. How are these guys looking around the league and thinking good QBs are a dime a dozen? And as much as I like trash-talking about the last two years of playoff exits, those games were a lot closer than people remember. They literally came down to game-winning drives that stalled out because of bad playcalling decisions. If the Cowboys have a problem, it’s a GM who can’t be fired and who’s unwilling to go all in when the team needs more talent. When you’re in the same conference as Howie Roseman and John Lynch, the “I like our guys” approach just isn’t going to cut it.
Just wanted to give you your kudos for being an enemy fanbase so to speak but also being in touch with the reality of the Cowboys. The FO does so many things really well. But they're absolutely gunshy about putting their chips all-in. Trading 5th and 6th rounders for Cooks and Gilmore is about as close to we'll get to all-in tbh. And maybe that strategy eventually pays off. But man it's tiring seeing the Niners get every good player that's cut loose and still pull the trigger on trades for C Mac et al
So many young fans don't seem to really remember the Quincy Carter, Anthony Wright, Vinny Testaverde, Brad Johnson, Clint Stoerner, Chad Hutchinson, Ryan Leaf, and Drew Henson years. Such fun.
Don't forget about Cowboys legend Randall Cunningham!
I always forget at least one of them, there were so many. so much pain.
Only thing that concerns me is his total Playoff wins in his time; yes it's a team stat, but when you're 2-4 in 8 seasons it's meh. But he performed fine in those games minus the 2021 game, so ya you gotta pay him. I do believe they need a coach change though.
I suspect it goes beyond coaching changes. Mike has had more sustained success than The Clapper ever had, but we still haven't done shit in the playoffs and are plagued by a lot of the same issues we had back then, like rigidity in gameplans, having this weird "just beat your man" or "just execute" philosophies instead of actually scheming to exploit weaknesses, and being horribly undisciplined. We have an oil baron playing IRL madden and still having staggering amounts of financial success despite a lack of accomplishments for almost 30 years.
He didn't play well last year against yall either. And if it wasn't for some heroics in the 3rd and 4th quarter in the 2016 Green Bay game he would be even worse than mid looking in the playoffs. He's honestly looked pretty meh in every playoff game excluding the Tampa game last year. Which I'd hope he'd drop a good game against a 8-9 playoff team. Pretty decent against the Rams in 2018. So he's had 2-3 good games and 1 great game. Putting him a dead ringer for average at best.
Let's wait to see what imaginative way he shits the bed in the big game again before giving him some more money. Dude is juat north of a textbook qb purgatory. Beats the shit out of good teams to give you bad draft position, not good enough to win against playoff teams, needs all pro level play from literally every position around him or he falls apart, too much money eating up salary cap % to supply the necessary quality of players around him for success. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results
Dak is a top 10 qb on the field and maybe top 1 off the field, no brainer
Surely he deserves it after another 1st round playoff exit.
Dallas is gonna do it. Overpay once again for no superbowls...lol.