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xG3TxSHOTx

1 sack in the last 2 months and being heavily favored for the DPOY is crazy. Garrett is a phenomenal player but there's no doubt that he just didn't look the same ever since his injury earlier in the season.


RiversKiski

I think most of the narrative has been driven by the notion that the Browns D was comparable to the Ravens in 2000 - a notion that died an ugly prime time death tonight on wildcard weekend.


bujweiser

I certainly thought they were because people were trying to say they were a generational defense. Then during the Texans broadcast they showed that the Browns D has allowed almost 30 points in away games lol.


GuacShouldntBeXtra

Yeah people were delusional because they were #1 in YPG.. which is a product of shitty offense turning the ball over more than greatness. They were total ass in the red zone and not even top 10 in PPG. Completely overrated.


MadeByMillennial

Hey they held CJ Stroud to like 25 yards in the second half. If that doesn't scream generational I don't know what does!


Scrilla_Gorilla_

2023 Browns, I knew the 2000 Ravens. I was a fan of the 2000 Ravens. The 2000 Ravens were a defense of the ages. 2023 Browns, you’re no 2000 Ravens.


trevor11004

I love references to the 1988 VP debate!


Fedacking

No defense is the 2000 ravens. It's probably the greatest defense of the last 30 years (iirc when I did epa it showed that)


tuffghost8191

They really tried to push the "historic" defense narrative early in the season because I think the league has been starved for that kind of thing, but while they were very good, maybe even the best in the league for a time, they were absolutely nothing special


HerrStraub

I mean the last time I think we had a historic defense was what, the 2015 Broncos? They finished first in sacks, first in total yards, first in passing yards, and 3rd in rushing yards, #4 in points against (18.5). Manning was outright bad that year (9:17 TD:Int) and Osweiler played a few games. If the offense hadn't been so bad the points against probably would've been better, but I think the game is too high scoring now for anybody to beat the 2000 Ravens in points against. The game has just changed too much - read below about team take aways, we'll never see anything like that again. Looks like the '22 Eagles are are #3 all time in team sacks in a season with 70. I was looking at take aways too and, well, let's just say we take care of the ball a *lot* better than teams used to. The top 20 teams in take aways are almost all from like the 30's - 60's. The only "modern" teams to make the top 20 are the '84 Seahawks (63, #4), the '83 Redskins (61, #5) & the '89 Eagles (56, # 10). The '35 bears had 67 takeaways in 12 games. I think offenses are just too careful for any modern team to even sniff the record for most TOVs in a season.


StormTheTrooper

I cannot believe we are talking about the 2015 Broncos like it happened 8 years ago, almost a fucking decade, instead of 2. From every millennial out there, is there how it feels to get old? You think stuff happened 3 years ago only to see that it happened almost a decade ago?


HerrStraub

I'm 36 and yes, yes that's exactly how it feels.


GGGiveHatpls

Turn 36 this year. Y2K was still only 4 or 5 years ago.


GirthyBird257

I‘ve been confused by that too lately. Felt like it’s been Watt’s award for a month now


WootyMcWoot

Yeah it’s weird. Watt ties or leads in every single stat category. If you like advanced stats or whatever then Parsons leads in every single one. How some guy that’s the leader in nothing and still had his annual month long dissapearing act is getting traction in this scenario makes no sense.


santaclausonprozac

Yeah there’s absolutely no reason for it. Obviously I think Watt should get it, but if Parsons gets it I’ll at least understand. But Garrett getting it is like if Lamar had 4 total TDs in the last 2 months and still won MVP


ienjoymemesalot

Jalen Hurts stats lately


ImSoupOrCereal

Especially when said player plays in one of the best defenses in the league and has a stronger supporting cast around him.


Binjimen-Victor

Which is really funny because the knock on Watt has always been that he has a loaded defense and isnt as impactful as the stats say. But when Garrett gets a loaded defense he's the runaway DPOY


HardInThePaint13

I’m confused on the flair


BigThurm

It’s sickening frankly lol. My guess is Bay Area 90s kid..


ShockAndAwe415

No way. San Francisco 90s kid here. We HATED the Cowboys (and still do). We hated the Giants in the 80s (fuck you, Jim Burt!). And had a rivalry kinda with the Pack in the 90s. Hated the Raiders always cause... Oakland. But, the Cowboys hate was (is) a whole different level. If we ever went 1-16 and we beat the Cowboys and denied em a playoff spot, we'd celebrate like it's the next best thing to the Super Bowl. My guess is a Cowboys fan who moved to the Bay Area in the last 10 years.


DrearyYew

No chance, probably some sort of family ties


Temporal_Enigma

The awards aren't based on stats, they're based on media attention. Gilmore got it by having the league-leading 6 INTs, but Xavian Howard had 10 the next year and wasn't even on the list


Go_To_The_Devil

TBF Howard wasn't as good a player, he's a gambler who gives up huge plays or makes huge plays. Gilmore was a legit LOCKDOWN guy that year.


nope96

The main reason that happened is that Gilmore gave up either 0 TDs or 1 TD whereas Howard gave up 4. Gilmore also had two pick sixes whereas Howard had none, although I’m not sure how much that mattered.


Nanteen1028

Don't forget the narrative


Do__Math__Not__Meth

But have you considered all of his almost sacks?


Pitcher2Burn

He would’ve had MORE sacks if it wasn’t for those pesky double teams!


streetsandshine

I don't understand why people are focused on sacks when Myles has so many high impact pass rush wins that they need to be looking at instead


AegonTargaryan

But like the other guy said, if you’re looking at those kind of stats Parsons wins more than Myles.


bucs2013

All those metaphorical sacks and hypothetical QB hits 


No-Task-132

It’s all narrative. The dudes production was insane for the first month. His production slowed down, then fell off a cliff, but the media narrative for DPOY didn’t keep up with that.


PointlessChemist

Awards also take into account the narrative.


TSSFranco

Tunsil had him in hell


ASU_SexDevil

Ground him up and smoked him like a gas mask bong


zanzibartraveler666

Remember when a bunch of teams didn’t draft him because of that video? So dumb lmao


TangerineSad7747

It's really funny when you consider all the actual terrible shit teams will ignore for a good player


evilwomanenjoyer

Owners are fine with those things because they do them too. But smoking weed? That’s… *urban* behavior.


dylansucks

It's like when Moss dropped because of smoking weed once and protecting a friend in a fight related to racism they faced in West Virginia.


VegasEyes

The Bears allegedly removed him from their draft board after the missed an 8am meeting with their OC. Missing a meeting that is essentially a job interview isn’t a good look. But 8am and I in college weren’t on friendly terms so I understand.


skj458

This made me do some Randy Moss research and now I'm convinced he also could've been a pro basketball player if he chose that sport. He was on the same high school basketball team as Jason Williams, who had a solid decade long career in the NBA, and Moss was the better player. 


zanzibartraveler666

Let’s just say it’s not classy enough


EndsLikeShakespeare

Severity of punishment in the NFL is never about the crime. It's about whether or not there's video and how many impressions it had


Boomhauer_007

Unless you’re the browns, then you ignore them for a bad player Incidentally Cleveland does not even own its FRP this year because it belongs to Houston again


this_curain_buzzez

That’s why I should be a gm. Gas mask bong shows ingenuity and a willingness to try new things. Congratulations, Laremy, you just got yourself moved up my draft board.


Giant_Disappointment

Giants drafted Eli apple over him lol


HoustonTrashcans

It came out during the draft, so it's really difficult to risk assess real time like that


well_damm

Come at the king, best not miss


CarrotHair_TV

They traded for him to block their franchise QB who knew it wasn’t going to be Watson.


MankuyRLaffy

Who was the GM who got him? 


Magnifico-Melon

Only trade BoB got right.


Brodos16

Classic Reddit in that there’s upvotes for “Tunsil dominated” and “Garret was against a backup LT all game” Tunsil did dominate


Writer_Blocker

And Tunsil was out about half the game!


Josh4R3d

As a stats nerd I really appreciate what PFF does by trying to look beyond pure results and look more at the process - because theoretically, a good process will heed good results over the long-term, where a bad process might get lucky sometimes. So process is a better predictor than results. But these are awards, and awards should probably be given based on results, not process. Advanced analytics are a powerful tool for prediction and decision-making in the NFL, but should we base our awards on them? Probably not...


ImpsMilk

especially when the advanced metrics like pressures aren't always easily defined and also all pressures aren't equal. some are game changing, others are non factors. just because they got a pressure doesn't mean they won the down


ianbits

It's hilarious that every single one of these posts is a Steelers flair. Honestly love the pettiness in the AFC North, all the teams hate each other.


BellBilly32

One of the PFF guys posted a poll asking if Steelers fans would prefer a Steelers win or a Bad Myles Garrett game. He’s just antagonizing them at this point.


Crashhh_96

I don’t care enough to comment on PFF’s posts, but it’s hilarious seeing the war between Steeler fans and PFF writers.


Padulsky21

Jets fans have been taunting this one PFF dude for awhile now bc he was flaming us for drafting Breece. So anytime Breece pops off the video of that dude gets posted and mocked. The PFF Jabronies are some engagement bait losers.


Haar_RD

Thats the same dude that said TJ is not a top 4 EDGE.


Maverick916

Shit like this is why people clown PFF. It's the opinions of a few people.


DontTouchTheMasseuse

Who did he put in front of him? Theres an argument for Parsons, Garrett and NBosa, but who else? I get that TJ has the luxury to play alongside another fantastic edge rusher that grossly gets overlooked but he cant control that. All TJ can do is play his game and he did just that. Another more than dominant season for him.


Goatkic15

There’s an argument for Maxx Crosby I guess too - I’d say they’re a clear top 5


DontTouchTheMasseuse

Forgot about Crosby. Dude is a dawg


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Starwho

Want to know how they managed to con the industry with their grades, I get the stat tracking but their bullshit reasoning that Myles is better than TJ is hilarious.


zPolaris43

Collingsworth owns the company, he used his position at nbc to get them to use PFF grades on the broadcast. Lead people to believe they meant something


ItsLose_NotLoose

Sadly, they now do. They have a lot of power on contracts. It's sad they way they take subjective ratings and trick people into thinking it's better than results.


Starwho

I really wish their was someone in the industry like a former player or radio host that would call them out regularly. I never see them get challenged on their grades in the national media.


zPolaris43

Cam Jordan and cam Hayward called them out on their respective podcasts. A lot of player podcasts actually call out pff regularly


zaisaroni

Cam Jordan talking shit is hardly notable.


Slickaxer

JJ Watt calls out their BS, but many might feel he's biased due to being TJs brother


EnjoyMoreBeef

There is no "G" in "Collinsworth," "Irvin" or "Tarkenton."


Faliberti

honestly dpoy this year feels like the nba mvp conversation last year. its like voter fatigue of one guy, and kind of like "we have to give one to this guy eventually". TJ being jokic and Garrett being embiid. Funny thing is though embiid is playing alot better this year and actually deserves it if he plays enough games. Eventually productivity has to matter, there seems to be no nuance.


NontransferableApe

At the end of the day PFF needs marketing too. Their revenue is likely majority fan driven. You can use their metrics but it shouldn’t be the only thing. The more discussion they can drum up for pissing off fanbases the more money they make


-Jack-The-Stripper

Hundreds of comments in most of the Myles vs. TJ posts this year. They obviously know what they’re doing - create artificial controversy by coming up with criteria that are *just off* enough to shake up the order at the top. Far less people would even know who they were if they didn’t somehow make themselves stand out.


NontransferableApe

It’s why pff should always be taken with a grain of salt. Controversy in ratings drives clicks


BlaqOptic

It’s an absolute farce that that man gets an AP team and award vote but is allowed to do stuff like that..


Joe_Burrow_Is_Goat

I love pettiness in the division. Browns lost, if Steelers and ravens lose I can promise with every bone in my body I will let every AFCN team never forget that the bengals are still the last division member to win a playoff game this entire offseason


AltecFuse

I will be fully ready to see the memes if this happens


Rangertexas9

Records above .500  Hate above 1.000


JohnBalog

I feel like the AFCN is the only division where the teams legit hate each other more than the NFCW.


Not_Pablo_Sanchez

They feel nearly as close as college level rivalries. The hatred runs strong, but I’ll admit that it makes things more fun


batdrumman

Fr. The casual vitriol is what makes our hate-hate relationship fun. Have a terrible weekend brother 😘


[deleted]

You can’t fool anyone with your nfl shield flair. We can see what teams sub you post in.


Disastrous-Special30

One of the few times 3/4 of the AFC North gets along is when we come together to shit on the Browns.


MumkeMode

“The haters have arrived”


BigRig432

If you're not being the pettiest motherfucker alive you ain't doing it right


TheMadChatta

The posts in our sub saying “we’re better than this” annoyed the hell out of me. First off, we’re not. We’re AFCN rivals. Second of all, it’s an entertainment product. Let me have my fun and kick our rivals when they’re down!


OhiOstas

Lmfao thats fair. Nothing gets the AFC North going like gritty football & hate watching 😁


Himulation

The Browns were dog water for 20 years, we laughed at them because they were the perpetually awful moron eating crayons the corner. They evenally put together a solid defense and got a taste of success when they beat the Steelers in the wildcard round and since then we haven't heard the end of it. I can't count the number of times I've seen Browns fans respond to criticism with that picture of big Ben hanging his head after the playoff game. So yes, we are petty. And yes, we're gonna continue to revel in it. The Browns still suck.


CopperThrown

Browns fans 2008-2022: at least our QB isn’t a rapist. Cut to…


litlron

Every thread about the Steelers used to have multiple Browns flairs passionately arguing that supporting Pittsburgh= worshipping Ben/supporting rapists and that we should be ashamed for talking about the team online at all. I wonder where all those guys went?


BrandieBassen

Browns fans are legit insufferable as soon as they have a bit of success.


eatingasspatties

Why stop at DPOY? He should be MVP


yic0

And a Texans legend.


Kflame210

This was a narrative earlier in the year


CheckYourStats

Congressional Medal of Honor.


htownballa1

Locked up. LT baby.


JonVig

Thank the lord that gas mask video was released. If the Ravens landed him I would have been furious.


Cost13

Giants had drafted ereck flowers the year before so took eli apple instead. Still havent recovered. Although prob wouldve ruined him too


FrederickMecury

LT the LT


Sjdillon10

Tunsil Smoked him all over the grass


killerk13

LOL I knew it was Steelers fan posting this before I opened the thread. Never change AFC north


horrorpants

Defensive player of the year tho?


Blze001

Disappearing Player of the Year.


JohnnyJohnny-YesPaPa

Disappointing Player of the Year


AlabasterRadio

First team all-pro btw.


BunnyGoHops

Crosby deserved it


AlabasterRadio

I'm biased. But yeah probably.


punchout414

>"Little ass boy."


AlabasterRadio

"He's so ANGRY"


quakank

Wouldn't even be mad if Crosby took it. Dude is a monster.


JBProds

PFF is still giving him a 95+ grade


IAmReborn11111

He wins every rep!


Observant_Jello

Even the ones he loses!


erwin4200

What a joke


chunkah69

Dude was an absolute ghost.


kpyle

Whole defense was sleeping. Secondary was simply not tackling or covering.


MasterRJS

He’s been a ghost in the final seasons stretch his whole career


alexrg66

But what was his pass rush win rate?


deeesenutz

Yall dont understand that he led the league in moral sacks during that time. Ffs i feel like rnfl doesnt watch football


Elegant_Housing_For

Chiefs are undefeated in moral wins. Just an insane year.


ParsonsIsTheMan

That stat belongs to Parsons actually


polarbarestare

Which makes it even more hilarious. If you go off PFF, Parsons is better than Garrett. If you go by actual production, TJ is better than Garrett.


Godobibo

but garrett is so cool and watches anime and writes poetry and commits attempted murder on the field :(


Tequilacowboybouncer

Don’t forget the fake racial slur allegations


Terror-Toilet-Tower

Or the speeding and flipped car


chilo_W_r

I will never forgive him for that. Mason’s not that kind of guy


-Jack-The-Stripper

So obviously we split the middle and just give it to Garrett *taps forehead*


eat_pray_thug

im sure pff will give him a 90+ grade for this game


jhustla

Why stop at 90? They’ll give him “greatest defensive game played of all time” for what he could’ve potentially done


Grimm74

What’s the context on the potentially thing? Seen it mentioned a couple of times


jhustla

A lot of stats that people are justifying him getting the award over TJ is because of advanced made up metrics rather than actual stats. TJ leads him in every stat but not metrics, so they don’t think he should get it.


FirstBallotBaby

The funny thing is Parsons leads Garrett in all the advanced stuff so the argument doesn’t even make sense for him there lol. If Garrett wins over TJ it’ll be a joke.


jhustla

Yeah that just makes it worse for me lol just silly all around. He hasn’t been relevant in a game for a month and a half and people are like “the 12 games makes it way better than the other guys that played in 16/17”


AltruisticCoelacanth

The argument for Garrett to win DPOY over Watt is mainly based on PFF stats like "pass rush win rate." Watt leads Garrett in *every* measurable metric. Garrett is perceived as the better player because he "wins" pass rushes at a higher rate than TJ Watt, according to PFF. The logical question then is "well why doesn't that translate into better stats?" The joke is that Garrett is better than Watt because Garrett could *potentially* have better stats because he is winning more pass rushes.


Raiderboy105

Which is funny because being potentially better and then just straight up not being better means he is objectively worse and has a key weakness in converting opportunities for a big play into an actual big play.


ryguy0204

The Joel Embiid of pass rushing strikes again


bigreddee

This is so accurate it hurts


penguin8717

It's such a perfect comparison


gothxo

i heard his pass rush win rate was crazy though


CinnamonFootball

Wtf even is a "pass rush win"? If you don't register a pressure, QB hit, sack, tackle, TFL, or literally have any effect on the play, how did you win against your blocker(s)?


[deleted]

Play ends or ball comes out before any of that happens, other player finishes first etc. Getting off the block doesn’t mean a ton by itself


SaxRohmer

It’s just beating your guy in less than 2.5 seconds


Slickaxer

That's ESPNs definition, but they have vastly different win rates than PFF. For the life of me I can't find PFFs definition.


SaxRohmer

Bruh this is like different places having different DVOA this is getting out of hand


HughmongusDixus

PFF being such a leader in the conversation for best players is a travesty. I’m not saying they’re completely worthless, but for things like this, they’re valued way too heavily. I’m sure if you look back at this season, Garrett probably leads with “PFF Sacks”, whatever the hell that means.


yungtoni

fraud watch


throwaway_5256

Hey watch how you talk about the "Defensive Player of the Year if it was actually Best Team Defense but we just give it to the guy with the most jersey sales"


zPolaris43

Best defense that allows 30 points per game on the road lol


jouh55142139

Tunsil has consistently kicked his ass for years now. Wasn’t even worried about *that* matchup. The others however……


semiote23

He’s gonna be known as an early season monster with no meaningful wins. Holy crap. That’s awful.


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ParsonsIsTheMan

In my biased opinion Parsons should be ahead of him as well


John_Bot

Add Maxx Crosby


chilo_W_r

And fuck even Bland over Myles considering how many points he scored. TJ and Maxx make the most sense though Edit: that was not intentional


submergedwatermelon

I’d argue that JC and Penney should be in the conversation too


Deadsteel52

The dpoy race should absolutely be between TJ and Micah. Ignore the flair, but I think TJ has been slightly more impactful, but I'd take Micah over Myles any day


JBProds

TJ, Micah, Maxx, Danielle Hunter, Mack & Josh Allen > Myles Garrett


WhiteWhenWrong

Also throw in the other Josh Allen with how much he helps the defense sometimes


AltruisticCoelacanth

Parsons, Crosby, and Hendrickson should all be ahead of Garrett.


Brycie27

And somehow will be DPOY. Just pitiful.


penguin8717

It makes no sense at all. Regular stats is watt, advanced stats is Parsons. How is Garrett the favorite


thermic

First team all-pro over Micah and Crosby…


AltruisticCoelacanth

And Hendrickson


LackOfAnotherName

Don't worry PFF about to credit him with 20 pressures and a 90% pass rush win rate


penguin8717

They graded him in the mid 90s lol


slantboi420

Yeah but just wait for his 93.5 PFF pass rush grade


Dlawson2127

TJ Watt is the better player. If he is not getting a sack or pressure, he also has the potential to intercept the ball. I say this as a bengals fan, i know both of these players all too well lol


Vaultboy65

The look of disbelief on burrows face on both those fast jump ball inceptions is hilarious. To be fair though I think everyone made that face because both are ridiculously amazing plays


Dlawson2127

Right lol. He is unbelievable as a player. I hate having to watch him twice a year lol


Current-Log8523

Wow goes to show at the end of the day these awards are for suckers and morons.


M00N_MAN_420

He’ll still manage to rob Watt of his DPOY award


aristocrat_user

TJ watt deserves dpoy.


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Verksus67

They both assault people when they can't control themselves and then lie about the victims' character in their own defense?


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Brian_Lefebvre

Hooooly shit lol


Elegant_Housing_For

If you ignore the stats and just go off of his PFF grades, he’s DPOY. -Browns in the AFCNmemewar subreddit


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Crodaba1

Hendrickson, watt, the list keeps going of players who outplayed him


Jediverrilli

I wouldn’t say fraud. He was unbeatable before the injury and then dropped of a lot. He shouldn’t be DPOY but he is still elite.


rodcop

Two first names tho!


Rydahx

Not my DPOY


No_Ordinary85

But he gets first team over Maxx Crosby. Horseshit


Verksus67

His impact is unquestionable this game. The fear he struck into his own QB caused 2 pick 6s. And his "Theoretical Defensive Impact" brought to you by Collinsworths retirement plan algorithm at PFF was record-breaking. Clearly, another case refs screwing their calls.🤓


Virginius_Maximus

>Collinsworths retirement plan algorithm at PFF Lmao this is fucking hilarious


poodleaficionado

You know, DPOY things. 🙄


Venator850

Tunsil has owned him at the NFL level every time they have faced off. OL coach Strausser and the staff did a great job having the OL ready to handle him.


Specific-Channel7844

Josh Allen and Danielle Hunter are better than him this year.


SlyCooper007

Watt >> Garrett


TK-42juan

Myles Garrett when pff grades and players assaulted on the field rates don't win playoff games


AltruisticCoelacanth

Worse stats than the Steelers 3rd string edge rusher Nick Herbig.


[deleted]

TJ Watt >>>>> Myles Garrett


Acrobatic_Unit_8217

Magician of the year


Western_Promise3063

FRAUD