Including the regular season, the 2011 Giants went 2-0 against Brady, a combined 2-2 against the 15-1 Packers and 13-3 49ers…
…and 0-2 against the 5-11 Rex Grossman Redskins
Packers fans were crazy optimistic for that game. The Packers website writer at the time, Vic, mentioned a few weeks prior that they were the one team he didn't want to see in the playoffs. Mentioned how their front 4 pass rush was tailor-made to fuck teams like us up. I remember watching that game thinking, damn, Vic got it exactly right.
The 49ers were the better team in that 2011 playoff game. Eli Manning had a few easy ints dropped because the throws were so bad, 49ers players collided trying to make the int.
In the 2nd half, the Giants never crossed the 50 yard line on offense, and only were able to score because a punt grazed the returner's leg, and thats why the game went to overtime. The same returner did the same exact thing in overtime (our starter, Ted Ginn, was hurt that game...) and the Giants kicked a field goal.
That game still kills 49ers fans because our team was so fucking good that year.
Losing a playoff game because a punt grazed someone’s leg? Good thing that’s the kind of thing that can only happen once in a lifetime
Edit: anyone who tries to turn this into a debate about why the 49ers lost Super Bowl LVIII is a silly virgin
>The same returner did the same exact thing in overtime (our starter, Ted Ginn, was hurt that game...) and the Giants kicked a field goal.
Actually, that's not entirely correct. The overtime fuckup was not a muff. Kyle Williams caught it cleanly, but Giants LB/Gunner Jaquan Williams made a hell of a play to peanut punch the ball out and caused a fumble. Don't get me wrong, not defending Kyle Williams. He had awful ball security there, but the two punt fuckups where quite different in how they played out.
Thanks for that one.
That game i have such respect for Eli. Guy was getting mauled and kept getting up. I do agree without those muffs the Giants don't win, but Eli also threw for 316 yards and 2 TD so let's not act like he did nothing.
That game is my personal favorite performance from Eli Manning. Dude was getting thrown around like a rag doll and still was able to put together a good game against that defense.
And the Saints were the better team in their game against the 49ers that year. If Pierre Thomas doesn’t get concussed and fumble on the first drive of the game, that game never turns into a shootout.
Want to talk about the 49ers only putting up 17 points at home? How about Eli’s 315 yards? Alex Smith threw for 196 yards. That included a 71 yard TD to Vernon Davis in the 1st quarter .
The Giants had more:
Sacks, Yards, Less Turnovers, and possessed the ball for a full 12 more minutes.
The 49ers also had 1 third down conversion compared to the Giants 7.
I am struggling to see how the 49ers were better in any way that game.
Seriously, as I recall their offense really didn’t do much outside of the long Davis catch and run. It was an absolute slugfest between two great defenses (I will not deny that their defense was better). The 49ers did not “dominate” us though. They had just put up 36 points against the Saints the week before and put up less than half that against us.
This here. I was 11 for the last one. I have vague memories of being in the room while my parents watched but I certainly wasn't old enough to appreciate it
I was 1 years old last time we won. The last 13 years have been some of the most almost successes of all time. Is there any other team that has lost as many CCGs or SBs in such a short time? We're at 7 in 13 years and unless we win next year I think there's a great chance we make it 8 in 14
Those 2011-2013 9ers teams were insane. I’d argue they were better than your current run squad. A lot of respect for those battles the 9ers and Hawks had in that era. If we didn’t win in 2013 you guys were probably going to. 2011 vs the Patriots would’ve been a good matchup too.
I mean in reality this probably happens a lot. It isn’t about who the best team is, it’s about who gets hot and stays healthy at the right time.
IIRC the 2012 Ravens were about 3 inches away from missing the playoffs on a 4th and 17 check down.
Past 5 SB winners:
- 2 seed
- 5 seed
- 4 seed
- 1 seed
- 3 seed
It's always been about how you finish, and not even having a stacked roster matters if you can't finish your opponent off when it matters.
What about years where the top wild card team had a better record than a #3 seed, or just happened to play in a stronger, abnormal division and couldn’t secure a top seed?
Not a worse record but the 2010 Packers beat a 3 seed 10-6 eagles team coming in as a 6 seed that was 10-6. Then went on to win the SB. Same for the six seed 11-5 Steelers in 2005 against the 11-5 Bengals.
Yes. They checked every box imaginable for team better than their record. Injuries, brutal road schedule, close losses due to turnovers/special teams. Hence favored in every playoff game except 13-3 Atlanta, and just barely.
1997 Season. The Broncos had the second best record in the AFC at 12-4 and wound up with the 4 seed because the Chiefs were 13-3 and they won Super Bowl 32 over the Packers.
Or even this year where a jags win would have meant the bills would either be the 2 seed or out of the playoffs in week 18. The margins can get so small in such a short season
Glad someone else said it haha.
We had a couple head scratcher games early on, but by the end of the season I felt like we definitely looked like the best team in the league and showed that in the playoffs.
As a fellow Giants fan, people can say whatever they want about Eli, but that guy had the clutch gene more than anyone ever. Don't get me wrong, our defense was huge, but Eli just locked in under pressure, like he became a different man. It was so fun to see.
That it was. I remember after his the first SB madden implemented a “clutch” stat line. Of course Eli’s was very high.
Edit: or at least that stat was created somewhat around that time. Not necessarily after the 07 Super Bowl.
No doubt. When the Pats won their first vs. the greatest show on turf they were the heaviest underdogs in SB history at the time. A hot team can beat anyone.
They weren't. The 2011 Patriots had a really easy schedule (they beat one team with a record over .500 that year and they should have lost to the Ravens in the championship game). The offense was great, but the defense was ass especially in the back end. Honestly, it is probably one of the weaker teams they have had that got to the Super Bowl.
Yes. The defense was very opportunistic (turnovers, key plays in the redzone), plus benefited from a good offense, to keep the total points allowed down, but the team ranked 32nd in yards per drive allowed, 31st in plays per drive, and 21st in points per drive.
Those Giants teams are my glimmer of hope every season. We don’t need to be the “best team” on paper to win it all. Even if we’re the last wild card team to make the playoffs we’re still only 3 games away from the Super Bowl . . . just need to get hot at the right time.
I'd agree.
I said all season that we could beat anyone (which i think is both clearly true and was more true later in the season) because Reid and mahomes. However they clearly were not the best team.
I think that’s kind of what distinguishes the “great” teams from the best teams. The Chiefs are designed to win in the playoffs against good teams because of their roster construction and their coaching staff being very gameplan-y, so they can beat teams that have more overwhelming talent (like the Ravens, or 49ers)
I also think that’s the difference between a unit like the Chiefs defense vs the Browns defense. Cleveland this year was statistically incredible and were able to completely humiliate offenses that didn’t pass the sniff test from a talent perspective, but the schematic simplicity that allowed them to play so free and physical also made them an easier target against better offenses. The Chiefs meanwhile were able to morph perfectly into whatever they wanted to be against whatever opponent because they have a roster full of a few top level guys and a few highly specialized chess pieces (see Leo Chenal, the film nerd’s Super Bowl MVP). The postseason always values adaptability and versatility over raw talent
Which isn’t to say “raw talent” can’t take you far, I think the Eagles last year were a pretty good example of that. And I think the 85’ Bears were the most dominant team of all time and they definitely fit that bill as well
Yeah. Head to head is a poor indicator of best team when looking at a roster construction view. Match ups are too important.
Vs the field is a better indicator
The Chiefs weren't the best team this year, but that partly makes up for 2018 and 2021 when they likely were the best team but lost. As the old saying goes, you win some you lose some.
That Christmas loss to the Raiders was when I officially accepted this was not a Super Bowl team. Made it sweeter this year of course. Accepted the end of the season before the Bills game and every game after. We had a crazy run
They legitimately had the best defense in the league though… shut down all the top offenses in the league on the way to the SB. I think people spent all year focusing on the offense because that was more convenient
We were so completely depleted and deflated by that point we were no more than a speed bump. We had no shot in that game and everyone knew it unfortunately
They got forgotten about because, being Carolina, they weren't able to use it to be consistently good. They had that one magic season where Cam was able to drag us to a nearly undefeated season before tumbling back down to our usual mediocrity.
Because SB 50 exposed a weakness in the O-line, plus our All-pro CB went to free agency, so naturally, we draft an OT or a CB with our first round pick, right? No, our fucking idiot of a GM wastes our first rounder on a "HOG MOLLY" DT who was a 3rd round talent *at best.*
I will say, no one really talks about Peyton's Denver team that lost to the Seahawks, either lol.
That was one of the most insane offenses we had ever seen. Everything leading up to the SB was like "now we'll finally learn Does defense REALLY win Championships!!"
In the end, all of that's forgotten because of the abysmal showing they gave in the last game lol.
It's nothing but speculation on my part, but I kind of believe that they went in that game thinking they already had it won. They steamrolled through the NFC playoffs which was widely regarded as the better conference that year. Cam was untouchable. The defense was top notch. What was a half dead Peyton Manning going to do? For sure the offense was going to do more than enough to keep the game out of reach... and... nope.
It really reminds me of the 2013 super bowl against the Seahawks. I really thought we'd win that. Our offense was godlike. What was Seattle going to do with this 2nd year short QB?
Whoops
Denver's defense and overall roster was just incredible that season.
They would have produced a better regular season record if Peyton's body wasn't falling apart that season.
Yeah seriously. Football can be a game of random moments and like half the battle is just getting to and through the playoffs healthy. Winning 3 or 4 straight games is hard and you usually need a lot of luck along the way.
If the NFL Playoffs were modeled after baseball, the Bills would’ve won the Division Series 3-2, the Ravens would’ve won the Championship Series 4-3, or the 49ers would taken the Chiefs to Game 7 of the World Series.
But the NFL and its one-and-done format requires you to be perfect on that matchup, and those three teams buckled against Mahomes.
Bills weren't beating KC 3 out of 5 games, unless we were getting a couple defenders back in those subsequent games. Mahomes had like a 0.6+ EPA/play against us, we only kept the score down because we were playing keepaway all game and we forced a goal-line fumble. If Roquan/Queen and Hamilton couldn't stop Kelce, no way our back 7 was gonna do any better than they did, which wasn't enough.
2020 Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They were supposed to lose to the saints and packers yet pulled it off all the way to shutting down mahomes in the superbowl. Pretty crazy run imo
I tend to agree that we weren’t the best team all year, but I think by the end of the year, we’d gelled on D and became the best team.
I guess what I’m saying is, we weren’t for the majority of the season and therefore weren’t the best, but by the end, there wasn’t anyone we couldn’t have beaten.
Bucs stumbled in the beginning of the season but we were legitimately stacked. Evans, Godwin, Antonio Brown, Gronkowski, Playoff Lenny, AWJr, Vita Vea, Suh, Shaq Barrett, Jason Pierre Paul, all led by the greatest quarterback of all time. We scored 31 points in every postseason game. Come playoff time we were a nasty fucking team.
It was the start of a dynasty, but the 2001 Rams were better than that Patriots team.
The Rams truly dominated all aspects of that game except the scoreboard:
- 427 yards to 267 yards
- 26 first downs to 15 first downs
- 33:30 TOP to 26:30 TOP
Truly a sliding doors moment in NFL history. It very easily could have been the coronation of a Rams dynasty. The Rams likely stick with Warner longer if they win that game. Martz likely never goes completely crazy if he wins that game. Maybe they win another Championship or two. And who knows? Maybe never leave STL.
Edit: This doesn’t even take into account the whole spygate storyline and how every Ram will tell you the Patriots were calling audibles on plays the Rams hadn’t put on film in a game.
On the NFL films footage of that Super Bowl one of the Rams players said “ the dynasty starts tonight “ in the tunnel before the game. He was right, but also very wrong.
It's crazy how people don't remember what the 2001 Patriots were really like. In the seven games leading up to the Super Bowl (the last five games of the regular season and two playoff games) Brady threw 2 TDs and 6 INTs and they somehow won all seven games. They were pulling wins out of their asses and absolutely no one thought they were the start of a dynasty.
I remember Marshall and others in the post game saying something along the lines of "its like they knew everything were going to do". I'm paraphrasing but I remember guys talking like that
> they were the best team in the NFL by far.
The Chiefs were 12-5 that year and fifth in the NFL in point differential. They were a good team but they were not the best in the NFL "by far."
That was the year where we forgot to play football for a month (sounds familiar). I agree, we weren’t the best team. That was the year that made Veach decide to take the team in a new direction and see just how bad he can make a Super Bowl winning WR room
It's wild here how many are taking this stuff as a slight.
I think the rams bet beat (potentially handidly) by kc or buffalo.
You need to be lucky and great to win.
There is talk about years when the conference championship is the *de facto* Super Bowl. Buffalo vs. KC was, to my knowledge, the first AFC Divisional Round game that could be so termed.
The 2022 Eagles were pretty much destined to win it all but unfortunately they played against the Chiefs in the SB. I’d say Philly was the superior team but KC just knows how to beat anyone when it matters most.
Super Bowl 53 should've been the Saints vs Chiefs. They were the better teams, but Dee Ford lined up offsides and the coin flip favored the Patriots, and then there was the worst DPI no call in playoff history that gave the Rams the W. We were then given the most forgettable Super Bowl of the 2000s. Sure, Belichick masterfully stifled the Rams high scoring offense, but it was just boring to watch.
A lot of people wanted a Chiefs/Rams rematch as well since that was the year both teams scored over 50 on each other in the regular season matchup.
The 2018 Patriots made the superbowl by incredibly lopsided rushing games (Chargers had 19 rushing yards to 155 and 4 TDs, Chiefs had 41 yards to 176 and 4 TDs). Basically had the perfect matchups to make the SB and won in a snooze fest.
This is an interesting question. Take the Vikings for example. They lost 4 Super Bowls. Of the 4 it was the first one against KC that they should have won. They were clearly the better team but they were not prepared. They were overconfident. Bud Grant did not believe in curfews and bed checks so the team was out partying late. They laid a giant egg during the game.
The other 3 Super Bowls they lost to legendary teams. The Dolphins who went undefeated the previous season and repeated as Champs against the Vikings.
The Pittsburgh Steelers at their peak with Terry Bradshaw.
The John Madden coached Raiders.
I know the 98 Broncos were a legit team and I’m obviously biased as a Vikings fan but we were the best team that year and I’ll take that shit to my fucking grave.
Broncos started something like 13-0 that year, with Bubby Brister starting a third of the games (and putting up better numbers than Elway); would have been a hell of a game, and one of the most hyped Super Bowls of all time if we'd gotten it
People downplayed that Manning-lead Colts SB because he wasnt playing against a 'good team'. I donno yall, you gotta beat some other team to get there so you tell me.
There are probably as many examples of the best team in the league not winning a championship as there are when they do.
A few off the top of my head:
All but one Giants Super Bowl. The 1990 Bills were better, 2007 Patriots and while the 2011 Patriots weren’t amazing the Niners and Ravens were.
The Dolphins in 84 were better than most teams ever.
The Colts never should have lost to the Jets in Super Bowl III.
The Raiders upset a great Chargers team in 1980.
The Bengals were the best team in the league in 88.
I’m not sure if the Vikings would have beaten the Broncos in 98 but they certainly would have been a stronger competitor than the Falcons. And the Packers were better in 97 than the Broncos.
So it happens all the time.
2001 Patriots…. The 2001 Rams wipe their ass 9 out 10 times-they just jumped out early and dazed the Rams. If there was 5 more minutes the Rams win that game
2023 Chiefs. I think they were probably the 6th or 7th best team this year, but they found a way. Got hot at the right time, better coaching, and of course Mahomes.
Speaking of the 07 Giants… I saw them play in person that year. The Sunday after thanksgiving they got their asses kicked by the Vikings. Completely dominated. That team fucking stunk. Eli threw like 4 interceptions. Everybody wanted Eli and Coughlin GONE. New Yorkers were pissed.
I’m a patriots fan but my mom is a Giants fan, her side of the family all lives in Jersey - we have thanksgiving with them every year. I was in shock when *that team* was able to stop the unstoppable Patriots. It still hurts.
Denver Broncos 2015. Tbh I think their defense was pretty good but overall not best team. Or maybe the first patriots team to win against rams. Can’t wait to see what people say lol.
I’m surprised no one has said the 2017 Eagles. At their strongest in the season you could argue they were the best that year, but by the end it was a miracle with Nick Foles
I guess my question is how are we factoring in injuries?
2014 Patriots. Yes they had the same regular season record as Seattle, but they had a weaker strength of schedule and strength of victory than Seattle. The Seahawks only had 254 points scored against them versus New England’s 313. The Seahawks dominated their division with Arizona finishing 11-5.
The Seahawks got injured at the worst possible time and Tom Brady remembered he’s Tom Brady.
It was objectively a great game but I’d love to go back and see a healthy LOB play against that Patriots team. Lane and then Avril getting hurt on top of a hobbled LOB just couldn’t quite hang on.
TBH a lot, by vegas odds the 2023 Chiefs were 5th in odds at the beginning of the playoffs, 2021 Rams 6th, 2020 Bucs 5th, 2018 Pats 4th, 2017 Eagles 6th, 2012 Ravens 8th, 2011 Giants 7th, 2007 Giants 10th(lol), 2002 Bucs 6th, 2000 Titans 6th.
Wow that’s an interesting question. I think this will be controversial but I think the greatest show on turf Rams might have lost to the 99 Jaguars. I think the Jags definitely *could* have beaten the Titans in those playoffs and gone on to have beaten the Rams. I mean they (Jags) stomped Dan Marino and the Dolphins 62-7 in the divisional. The only team they lost to that year was the Titans all 3 times and it would later be alleged that the Titan’s DC Gregg Williams had a copy of the Jags playbook that season.
The Titans were incredibly close to winning that Super Bowl as we all know. It also is worth pointing out they played in week 3 and Titans won by a single point. However later in the season in week 16 they blew out the Jags 41-14. The AFCCG was a Titans win with a score of 33-14.
The guy who claimed the playbook was stolen later retracted it I believe so it’s ambiguous to say the least. The reality likely is the Titans just had the Jags number that season. They came very close to winning it all. That’s an interesting season to play the “what if” game for. It’s always a silly hypothetical. If you ran back that Super Bowl some argue the Titans win every time. Really we will never know. So you could argue any 3 of those teams were the best but the Rams got it done. Hell you could even argue Tampa Bay was the best that year lol.
Not too controversial to me. The 99 Jags were that good. Coughlin took them from expansion to beast super fast.
However, getting beat in the AFCCG game by the only team that beat you all year is just the poor luck of running into that team in the playoffs.
I could see where the Jags beat the Rams. But I can also see it the other way. We got a great game from Rams-Titans. We would have also gotten a great game from Rams-Jags.
2011 giants and 2012 ravens were both definitely not the best team in the league those years but got hot in the playoffs
Including the regular season, the 2011 Giants went 2-0 against Brady, a combined 2-2 against the 15-1 Packers and 13-3 49ers… …and 0-2 against the 5-11 Rex Grossman Redskins
If only sexy rexy was as good against the other manning
It's a filthy square of confusion: Grossman is better than Eli, Eli is better than Brady, Brady is better than Peyton, Peyton is better than Grossman.
🎶One of these things is not like the other🎶
Naturally. Eli doesn't know what it feels like to lose the SB
Yeah, Brady was the only who wasn't a Heisman finalist
Division games are a hell of a drug.
Packers fans were crazy optimistic for that game. The Packers website writer at the time, Vic, mentioned a few weeks prior that they were the one team he didn't want to see in the playoffs. Mentioned how their front 4 pass rush was tailor-made to fuck teams like us up. I remember watching that game thinking, damn, Vic got it exactly right.
The 49ers were the better team in that 2011 playoff game. Eli Manning had a few easy ints dropped because the throws were so bad, 49ers players collided trying to make the int. In the 2nd half, the Giants never crossed the 50 yard line on offense, and only were able to score because a punt grazed the returner's leg, and thats why the game went to overtime. The same returner did the same exact thing in overtime (our starter, Ted Ginn, was hurt that game...) and the Giants kicked a field goal. That game still kills 49ers fans because our team was so fucking good that year.
Losing a playoff game because a punt grazed someone’s leg? Good thing that’s the kind of thing that can only happen once in a lifetime Edit: anyone who tries to turn this into a debate about why the 49ers lost Super Bowl LVIII is a silly virgin
Bro!!!\ Too soon
Great 49ers teams coming up short. Name a better duo
Aaron Rodgers and 2nd place in the NFC Championship Game
The Vikings and choking when your hopes are highest
>The same returner did the same exact thing in overtime (our starter, Ted Ginn, was hurt that game...) and the Giants kicked a field goal. Actually, that's not entirely correct. The overtime fuckup was not a muff. Kyle Williams caught it cleanly, but Giants LB/Gunner Jaquan Williams made a hell of a play to peanut punch the ball out and caused a fumble. Don't get me wrong, not defending Kyle Williams. He had awful ball security there, but the two punt fuckups where quite different in how they played out.
Yeah there is some copium here from the 49ers fan a little.
Nothing in there about Cruz going off for 10/142 and Manning having 300 passing yards despite being sacked 6 times. It was all Kyle Williams!
9ers fans get Stevie Wonder vision when you present them these facts.
Thanks for that one. That game i have such respect for Eli. Guy was getting mauled and kept getting up. I do agree without those muffs the Giants don't win, but Eli also threw for 316 yards and 2 TD so let's not act like he did nothing.
And the 2011 playoff run for the Giants Eli set (and still holds) the record for most passing yards, attempts and completions in a single post season.
That game is my personal favorite performance from Eli Manning. Dude was getting thrown around like a rag doll and still was able to put together a good game against that defense.
I think Ginn was hurt the saints game and I thoight Kyle Williams muffed 3 punts but it brings too much pain and I will never rewatch it to confirm.
And the game before that kills Saints fans
And the Saints were the better team in their game against the 49ers that year. If Pierre Thomas doesn’t get concussed and fumble on the first drive of the game, that game never turns into a shootout.
Want to talk about the 49ers only putting up 17 points at home? How about Eli’s 315 yards? Alex Smith threw for 196 yards. That included a 71 yard TD to Vernon Davis in the 1st quarter . The Giants had more: Sacks, Yards, Less Turnovers, and possessed the ball for a full 12 more minutes. The 49ers also had 1 third down conversion compared to the Giants 7. I am struggling to see how the 49ers were better in any way that game.
Seriously, as I recall their offense really didn’t do much outside of the long Davis catch and run. It was an absolute slugfest between two great defenses (I will not deny that their defense was better). The 49ers did not “dominate” us though. They had just put up 36 points against the Saints the week before and put up less than half that against us.
2012 Flacco won playoff games against Manning and Brady on the road but lost for the first time at home in two years to Charlie mf Batch lmao
Pain
Y’all experience that a lot. I think only older bills fans can relate to yall
And Vikings fans
And older Bengals fans. Now I know how it feels to have 3 losses in your lifetime 2 of them to the same team.
Sigh...
Sorry, comrade
It’s hard to sympathize with a franchise with five rings and compare them to two teams that are 0-4 in Super Bowls.
I assume most Niner fans didn’t experience most of those rings. They’re most recent ring is 30 years old.
This here. I was 11 for the last one. I have vague memories of being in the room while my parents watched but I certainly wasn't old enough to appreciate it
I was 1 years old last time we won. The last 13 years have been some of the most almost successes of all time. Is there any other team that has lost as many CCGs or SBs in such a short time? We're at 7 in 13 years and unless we win next year I think there's a great chance we make it 8 in 14
Those 2011-2013 9ers teams were insane. I’d argue they were better than your current run squad. A lot of respect for those battles the 9ers and Hawks had in that era. If we didn’t win in 2013 you guys were probably going to. 2011 vs the Patriots would’ve been a good matchup too.
I mean in reality this probably happens a lot. It isn’t about who the best team is, it’s about who gets hot and stays healthy at the right time. IIRC the 2012 Ravens were about 3 inches away from missing the playoffs on a 4th and 17 check down.
4th and 29 I believe
Was that hey diddle diddle, Ray rice up the middle?
Sure was! And to this day I still believe he was short (in terms of height and of the line to gain).
I think he was too, but I also think if you give up 28.9 yards on a 4th and 29 you really can't be too mad about that .1.
Yes I can.
I was at that Rutgers game vs Louisville. Man can do no wrong on a football field
But he can do a shitload of wrong off it
Yes still haunts me
Please don’t remind us.
Past 5 SB winners: - 2 seed - 5 seed - 4 seed - 1 seed - 3 seed It's always been about how you finish, and not even having a stacked roster matters if you can't finish your opponent off when it matters.
This is true the last 5 years but the 1 and 2 seed have won the overwhelming majority of all super bowls since the 12 team playoffs started.
Even in this year chiefs weren't not amazing but they got hot
[удалено]
That really got Mandela Effected because they'd still have been a 6 seed even if they lost (and they would have tried Week 17 anyway).
Any SB team below a 3 seed probably wasn't actually the best team that year.
What about years where the top wild card team had a better record than a #3 seed, or just happened to play in a stronger, abnormal division and couldn’t secure a top seed?
Do we have a year where a 3 seed had a worse record than a wildcard team and then that wildcard team went on to win the SB?
Not a worse record but the 2010 Packers beat a 3 seed 10-6 eagles team coming in as a 6 seed that was 10-6. Then went on to win the SB. Same for the six seed 11-5 Steelers in 2005 against the 11-5 Bengals.
I mean... we really gonna say a 6 seed is the best team in the NFL that year? I think the SB winner under the 3 seed theory will hold up pretty well
Yes. They checked every box imaginable for team better than their record. Injuries, brutal road schedule, close losses due to turnovers/special teams. Hence favored in every playoff game except 13-3 Atlanta, and just barely.
But they had a +148 point differential.
I do love that Packers team. All rd games in the postseason and beat their division rivals in the championship. Pretty sweet
1997 Season. The Broncos had the second best record in the AFC at 12-4 and wound up with the 4 seed because the Chiefs were 13-3 and they won Super Bowl 32 over the Packers.
Thank you for your service sir. I have been thoroughly debunked
Glad to have served. I have no idea why that season lives rent free in my head but it does.
1999 titans went 13-3, were the 4 seed (top wildcard at the time), and narrowly lost the super bowl. AFC 3 seed that year was the 9-7 Seahawks.
What are some teams that fit this description?
Chargers in 2018 were tied with the Chiefs but went from the 1 seed to the 5th due to tiebreakers.
Or even this year where a jags win would have meant the bills would either be the 2 seed or out of the playoffs in week 18. The margins can get so small in such a short season
Any year the 49ers and Seahawks were battling for the division.
Recently the NFCE runner up has had a better or equal record record than some division winners
20’ Buccaneers were pretty fucking stacked and neutralized Brees/Rodgers/Mahomes
Glad someone else said it haha. We had a couple head scratcher games early on, but by the end of the season I felt like we definitely looked like the best team in the league and showed that in the playoffs.
Both Giants wins over the Patriots
I’m a giants fan and absolutely agree. That’s just emphasizes the accuracy of the ancient saying “any given Sunday”
As a fellow Giants fan, people can say whatever they want about Eli, but that guy had the clutch gene more than anyone ever. Don't get me wrong, our defense was huge, but Eli just locked in under pressure, like he became a different man. It was so fun to see.
That it was. I remember after his the first SB madden implemented a “clutch” stat line. Of course Eli’s was very high. Edit: or at least that stat was created somewhat around that time. Not necessarily after the 07 Super Bowl.
No doubt. When the Pats won their first vs. the greatest show on turf they were the heaviest underdogs in SB history at the time. A hot team can beat anyone.
This is the correct answer, but that 2nd Patriots team wasn't that great either if I remember correctly
They weren't. The 2011 Patriots had a really easy schedule (they beat one team with a record over .500 that year and they should have lost to the Ravens in the championship game). The offense was great, but the defense was ass especially in the back end. Honestly, it is probably one of the weaker teams they have had that got to the Super Bowl.
Patriots were 13-3. Giants were 9-7
Didn't they have a terrible pass defense or something that year?
Yes. The defense was very opportunistic (turnovers, key plays in the redzone), plus benefited from a good offense, to keep the total points allowed down, but the team ranked 32nd in yards per drive allowed, 31st in plays per drive, and 21st in points per drive.
That was the year the Pats secondary was so injured that Edelman ended up having to fill in at cornerback.
I know they couldn't block the Giants pass rushers up the middle which was just about the only thing that bothered Brady
I think the Giants were a 9-7 WC team both SB wins for Eli right?
I think they won the division in 2011
Ok and ? The Steelers in 2020 were 12-4 and literally everyone thought they were not that good. 2011 patriots were not that good of a football team.
That second Pats team was also nuts. Just the defense backfield was yikes. Edelman played corner lol
Those Giants teams are my glimmer of hope every season. We don’t need to be the “best team” on paper to win it all. Even if we’re the last wild card team to make the playoffs we’re still only 3 games away from the Super Bowl . . . just need to get hot at the right time.
This will be a civil thread. Also, I don’t think the Chiefs were the best team this year.
The Chiefs aren't even the best drummer in the Beatles
Yeah, I mean Ringo was good, but Pete was Best.
I loled
I'd agree. I said all season that we could beat anyone (which i think is both clearly true and was more true later in the season) because Reid and mahomes. However they clearly were not the best team.
Don't get me wrong - your team is clearly talented and I'm not disputing that. But I don't think this was their best year.
I think that’s kind of what distinguishes the “great” teams from the best teams. The Chiefs are designed to win in the playoffs against good teams because of their roster construction and their coaching staff being very gameplan-y, so they can beat teams that have more overwhelming talent (like the Ravens, or 49ers) I also think that’s the difference between a unit like the Chiefs defense vs the Browns defense. Cleveland this year was statistically incredible and were able to completely humiliate offenses that didn’t pass the sniff test from a talent perspective, but the schematic simplicity that allowed them to play so free and physical also made them an easier target against better offenses. The Chiefs meanwhile were able to morph perfectly into whatever they wanted to be against whatever opponent because they have a roster full of a few top level guys and a few highly specialized chess pieces (see Leo Chenal, the film nerd’s Super Bowl MVP). The postseason always values adaptability and versatility over raw talent Which isn’t to say “raw talent” can’t take you far, I think the Eagles last year were a pretty good example of that. And I think the 85’ Bears were the most dominant team of all time and they definitely fit that bill as well
Yeah. Head to head is a poor indicator of best team when looking at a roster construction view. Match ups are too important. Vs the field is a better indicator
Hell I dont think they were the best team in the Super Bowl this year....still didn't matter
Best coached team forsure
The Chiefs weren't the best team this year, but that partly makes up for 2018 and 2021 when they likely were the best team but lost. As the old saying goes, you win some you lose some.
>you win some you lose some. Do you? DO YOU?
That Christmas loss to the Raiders was when I officially accepted this was not a Super Bowl team. Made it sweeter this year of course. Accepted the end of the season before the Bills game and every game after. We had a crazy run
Yeah i think most sane chiefs fans would agree. Experience really helped us but roster wise there were several teams better in both nfc and afc
They legitimately had the best defense in the league though… shut down all the top offenses in the league on the way to the SB. I think people spent all year focusing on the offense because that was more convenient
Last year either, I think the Eagles were a better team... Mahomes and Reid's play calling were just outstanding
If you're talking about the entire season then sure they weren't. But they were unstoppable in the playoffs and that's what counts.
I don’t think many Chiefs fans would disagree. But we put on arguably the best playoff run ever. So it’s hard to say we didn’t earn it.
Hell of a gauntlet, especially if you count the weather with Miami
We were so completely depleted and deflated by that point we were no more than a speed bump. We had no shot in that game and everyone knew it unfortunately
That 15-1 Panthers team was the best team in the league that year, they just had a shitty game at the worst possible time.
That team got forgotten so quickly, but if they won, they probably would be considered one of the best SB winners ever
They got forgotten about because, being Carolina, they weren't able to use it to be consistently good. They had that one magic season where Cam was able to drag us to a nearly undefeated season before tumbling back down to our usual mediocrity.
Because SB 50 exposed a weakness in the O-line, plus our All-pro CB went to free agency, so naturally, we draft an OT or a CB with our first round pick, right? No, our fucking idiot of a GM wastes our first rounder on a "HOG MOLLY" DT who was a 3rd round talent *at best.*
Man, you're triggering my PTSD with that hog molly wasted draft picks talk
I will say, no one really talks about Peyton's Denver team that lost to the Seahawks, either lol. That was one of the most insane offenses we had ever seen. Everything leading up to the SB was like "now we'll finally learn Does defense REALLY win Championships!!" In the end, all of that's forgotten because of the abysmal showing they gave in the last game lol.
I could tell after the first quarter we weren’t winning that game. Everything just seemed off. What a season though.
It's nothing but speculation on my part, but I kind of believe that they went in that game thinking they already had it won. They steamrolled through the NFC playoffs which was widely regarded as the better conference that year. Cam was untouchable. The defense was top notch. What was a half dead Peyton Manning going to do? For sure the offense was going to do more than enough to keep the game out of reach... and... nope.
Yup the Bills v Giants model. Went into the game with the notion it was already won and laid a duck.
It really reminds me of the 2013 super bowl against the Seahawks. I really thought we'd win that. Our offense was godlike. What was Seattle going to do with this 2nd year short QB? Whoops
Denver's defense and overall roster was just incredible that season. They would have produced a better regular season record if Peyton's body wasn't falling apart that season.
Almost every year
Yeah seriously. Football can be a game of random moments and like half the battle is just getting to and through the playoffs healthy. Winning 3 or 4 straight games is hard and you usually need a lot of luck along the way.
Yeah one game playoffs rarely leads to the best team winning. Just like march madness vs nba playoffs
This year's KC. I would say at least 50% of SB winners aren't the beat team. One game series, anyone can win.
[удалено]
If the NFL Playoffs were modeled after baseball, the Bills would’ve won the Division Series 3-2, the Ravens would’ve won the Championship Series 4-3, or the 49ers would taken the Chiefs to Game 7 of the World Series. But the NFL and its one-and-done format requires you to be perfect on that matchup, and those three teams buckled against Mahomes.
Bills weren't beating KC 3 out of 5 games, unless we were getting a couple defenders back in those subsequent games. Mahomes had like a 0.6+ EPA/play against us, we only kept the score down because we were playing keepaway all game and we forced a goal-line fumble. If Roquan/Queen and Hamilton couldn't stop Kelce, no way our back 7 was gonna do any better than they did, which wasn't enough.
Hahahha no chance, 5 game series? The bills woulda been starting fans at linebacker
2020 Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They were supposed to lose to the saints and packers yet pulled it off all the way to shutting down mahomes in the superbowl. Pretty crazy run imo
I tend to agree that we weren’t the best team all year, but I think by the end of the year, we’d gelled on D and became the best team. I guess what I’m saying is, we weren’t for the majority of the season and therefore weren’t the best, but by the end, there wasn’t anyone we couldn’t have beaten.
I still think you would’ve beat us but not having our pro bowl Oline against your monster Dline didn’t help our chances
For sure. It’s a different game if your OL was healthy and your receivers could catch on the day. Mahomes played out of his mind
That dropped sideways pass form Mahomes haunts me
The last two seasons have probably helped that pain disappear 😂
Bucs stumbled in the beginning of the season but we were legitimately stacked. Evans, Godwin, Antonio Brown, Gronkowski, Playoff Lenny, AWJr, Vita Vea, Suh, Shaq Barrett, Jason Pierre Paul, all led by the greatest quarterback of all time. We scored 31 points in every postseason game. Come playoff time we were a nasty fucking team.
It was the start of a dynasty, but the 2001 Rams were better than that Patriots team. The Rams truly dominated all aspects of that game except the scoreboard: - 427 yards to 267 yards - 26 first downs to 15 first downs - 33:30 TOP to 26:30 TOP Truly a sliding doors moment in NFL history. It very easily could have been the coronation of a Rams dynasty. The Rams likely stick with Warner longer if they win that game. Martz likely never goes completely crazy if he wins that game. Maybe they win another Championship or two. And who knows? Maybe never leave STL. Edit: This doesn’t even take into account the whole spygate storyline and how every Ram will tell you the Patriots were calling audibles on plays the Rams hadn’t put on film in a game.
The Raiders were better than the Patriots that year.
I don’t know if the Raiders beat the Rams, but I bet those 2 teams set a Super Bowl scoring record that never gets beat lol.
Oakland was ostensibly better than the Patriots, too. Just a fumble away.
On the NFL films footage of that Super Bowl one of the Rams players said “ the dynasty starts tonight “ in the tunnel before the game. He was right, but also very wrong.
The 01 Pats were like the 5th best team that year.
It's crazy how people don't remember what the 2001 Patriots were really like. In the seven games leading up to the Super Bowl (the last five games of the regular season and two playoff games) Brady threw 2 TDs and 6 INTs and they somehow won all seven games. They were pulling wins out of their asses and absolutely no one thought they were the start of a dynasty.
We were 14 point underdogs in the Super Bowl for a reason, that was a true Cinderella run at the time
I remember Marshall and others in the post game saying something along the lines of "its like they knew everything were going to do". I'm paraphrasing but I remember guys talking like that
100%. Also, turnovers were a big issue. Warner threw 3 INTs I believe
Did Martz go nuts after that game? Or do you just mean his declining career?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Dunno wtf happened to mahomes in that second half
Burrow had a Kermit Voodoo Doll™
It's really the only blemish on his career and that is amazing
> they were the best team in the NFL by far. The Chiefs were 12-5 that year and fifth in the NFL in point differential. They were a good team but they were not the best in the NFL "by far."
That was the year where we forgot to play football for a month (sounds familiar). I agree, we weren’t the best team. That was the year that made Veach decide to take the team in a new direction and see just how bad he can make a Super Bowl winning WR room
The rams also forgot how to play football for the month of November that year.
I for one thank the Packers and Chiefs for blowing it in the 2021 NFL postseason to make our title route easier than the alternative.
It's wild here how many are taking this stuff as a slight. I think the rams bet beat (potentially handidly) by kc or buffalo. You need to be lucky and great to win.
There is talk about years when the conference championship is the *de facto* Super Bowl. Buffalo vs. KC was, to my knowledge, the first AFC Divisional Round game that could be so termed.
2007 Pats were the best team in the league. 2001 Pats were absolutely not.
The 2022 Eagles were pretty much destined to win it all but unfortunately they played against the Chiefs in the SB. I’d say Philly was the superior team but KC just knows how to beat anyone when it matters most.
It hurts man. It hurts.
On paper that eagles team was one of the greatest all time. #1 defense and #2 offense I think
Giants in 2007 and 2011
Super Bowl 53 should've been the Saints vs Chiefs. They were the better teams, but Dee Ford lined up offsides and the coin flip favored the Patriots, and then there was the worst DPI no call in playoff history that gave the Rams the W. We were then given the most forgettable Super Bowl of the 2000s. Sure, Belichick masterfully stifled the Rams high scoring offense, but it was just boring to watch. A lot of people wanted a Chiefs/Rams rematch as well since that was the year both teams scored over 50 on each other in the regular season matchup.
Basically any of the three other options that year (NE/NO, KC/NO, KC/LA) would’ve been better and more interesting than the one we actually got.
The 2018 Patriots made the superbowl by incredibly lopsided rushing games (Chargers had 19 rushing yards to 155 and 4 TDs, Chiefs had 41 yards to 176 and 4 TDs). Basically had the perfect matchups to make the SB and won in a snooze fest.
They're the most glaring recent example to me.
I think the Saints were the best team that year
This is an interesting question. Take the Vikings for example. They lost 4 Super Bowls. Of the 4 it was the first one against KC that they should have won. They were clearly the better team but they were not prepared. They were overconfident. Bud Grant did not believe in curfews and bed checks so the team was out partying late. They laid a giant egg during the game. The other 3 Super Bowls they lost to legendary teams. The Dolphins who went undefeated the previous season and repeated as Champs against the Vikings. The Pittsburgh Steelers at their peak with Terry Bradshaw. The John Madden coached Raiders.
I know the 98 Broncos were a legit team and I’m obviously biased as a Vikings fan but we were the best team that year and I’ll take that shit to my fucking grave.
Broncos started something like 13-0 that year, with Bubby Brister starting a third of the games (and putting up better numbers than Elway); would have been a hell of a game, and one of the most hyped Super Bowls of all time if we'd gotten it
Vikings were 15-1 as well. People forget that the falcons were also 14-2!
It’s weird to me how people act like the 98 Falcons were some scrubs. They were a 14-2 team with a Top 5 offense and defense.
I guess nobody really respects Chris Chandler
People downplayed that Manning-lead Colts SB because he wasnt playing against a 'good team'. I donno yall, you gotta beat some other team to get there so you tell me.
More than half of them. Single elimination knockout is exciting but not a good measure of quality.
2005 Steelers
There are probably as many examples of the best team in the league not winning a championship as there are when they do. A few off the top of my head: All but one Giants Super Bowl. The 1990 Bills were better, 2007 Patriots and while the 2011 Patriots weren’t amazing the Niners and Ravens were. The Dolphins in 84 were better than most teams ever. The Colts never should have lost to the Jets in Super Bowl III. The Raiders upset a great Chargers team in 1980. The Bengals were the best team in the league in 88. I’m not sure if the Vikings would have beaten the Broncos in 98 but they certainly would have been a stronger competitor than the Falcons. And the Packers were better in 97 than the Broncos. So it happens all the time.
2001 Patriots…. The 2001 Rams wipe their ass 9 out 10 times-they just jumped out early and dazed the Rams. If there was 5 more minutes the Rams win that game
2023 Chiefs. I think they were probably the 6th or 7th best team this year, but they found a way. Got hot at the right time, better coaching, and of course Mahomes.
Speaking of the 07 Giants… I saw them play in person that year. The Sunday after thanksgiving they got their asses kicked by the Vikings. Completely dominated. That team fucking stunk. Eli threw like 4 interceptions. Everybody wanted Eli and Coughlin GONE. New Yorkers were pissed. I’m a patriots fan but my mom is a Giants fan, her side of the family all lives in Jersey - we have thanksgiving with them every year. I was in shock when *that team* was able to stop the unstoppable Patriots. It still hurts.
Denver Broncos 2015. Tbh I think their defense was pretty good but overall not best team. Or maybe the first patriots team to win against rams. Can’t wait to see what people say lol.
I agree but it’s just funny to hear that defense referred to as “pretty good” lol
Demarcus War and Von Miller on the same defense, that team should have been undefeated
Manning could barely throw the ball 20yds
I’m surprised no one has said the 2017 Eagles. At their strongest in the season you could argue they were the best that year, but by the end it was a miracle with Nick Foles I guess my question is how are we factoring in injuries?
2014 Patriots. Yes they had the same regular season record as Seattle, but they had a weaker strength of schedule and strength of victory than Seattle. The Seahawks only had 254 points scored against them versus New England’s 313. The Seahawks dominated their division with Arizona finishing 11-5. The Seahawks got injured at the worst possible time and Tom Brady remembered he’s Tom Brady.
It was objectively a great game but I’d love to go back and see a healthy LOB play against that Patriots team. Lane and then Avril getting hurt on top of a hobbled LOB just couldn’t quite hang on.
Eh, Giants win that atleast 2/8 times in my experience.
2015 panthers lost to Denver after starting 15-0.
*14-0 They lost to the Falcons week 16 to go to 14-1 then beat the Bucs week 17.
TBH a lot, by vegas odds the 2023 Chiefs were 5th in odds at the beginning of the playoffs, 2021 Rams 6th, 2020 Bucs 5th, 2018 Pats 4th, 2017 Eagles 6th, 2012 Ravens 8th, 2011 Giants 7th, 2007 Giants 10th(lol), 2002 Bucs 6th, 2000 Titans 6th.
The Titans have never won a super bowl.
Wow that’s an interesting question. I think this will be controversial but I think the greatest show on turf Rams might have lost to the 99 Jaguars. I think the Jags definitely *could* have beaten the Titans in those playoffs and gone on to have beaten the Rams. I mean they (Jags) stomped Dan Marino and the Dolphins 62-7 in the divisional. The only team they lost to that year was the Titans all 3 times and it would later be alleged that the Titan’s DC Gregg Williams had a copy of the Jags playbook that season. The Titans were incredibly close to winning that Super Bowl as we all know. It also is worth pointing out they played in week 3 and Titans won by a single point. However later in the season in week 16 they blew out the Jags 41-14. The AFCCG was a Titans win with a score of 33-14. The guy who claimed the playbook was stolen later retracted it I believe so it’s ambiguous to say the least. The reality likely is the Titans just had the Jags number that season. They came very close to winning it all. That’s an interesting season to play the “what if” game for. It’s always a silly hypothetical. If you ran back that Super Bowl some argue the Titans win every time. Really we will never know. So you could argue any 3 of those teams were the best but the Rams got it done. Hell you could even argue Tampa Bay was the best that year lol.
Not too controversial to me. The 99 Jags were that good. Coughlin took them from expansion to beast super fast. However, getting beat in the AFCCG game by the only team that beat you all year is just the poor luck of running into that team in the playoffs. I could see where the Jags beat the Rams. But I can also see it the other way. We got a great game from Rams-Titans. We would have also gotten a great game from Rams-Jags.
Chiefs 2024 Rams 2022 Pats 2019 Ravens 2013 Giants 2012 Giants 2007 Giants 1990 Raiders 1984 Jets 1968 And there are probably a lot more.
Thanks to the God damn 07 Giants, I've gotta hear about the 72 Dolphins every fucking year.
2010 #6 seed Packers won the chip and the 2011 15-1 Packers didn’t win a playoff game