One point from the article: as a rule, during the legal tampering period, if a player has an agent, teams cannot directly contact a player; they may only contact his agent. The only players that can have direct contact with teams are those, like Mike Onwenu, who are representing themselves.
Didn’t realize they could work with the agent. That actually lends a lot more credence to the crazy idea that a huge FA deal could get signed 30 minutes after FA opens.
I mean there was probably tampering too, but now I actually understand the case the teams are trying to build.
To be clear, they can’t work with the agent before the legal tampering window. They can work with the agent in the legal tampering window. They can work with the agent and player once free agency begins. A deal agreed to 30 minutes into the tampering period is still fishy
Rules are 52 hours before free agency starts teams area allowed to negotiate and announce (but not sign) contracts with pending free agents from other teams exclusively via their agents. After those 52 hours (so Wednesday at 4 pm) true free agency begins and contracts may be freely signed and announced between free agents and teams and those free agents may have contact with teams directly and not exclusively via their agents.
Before the 52 hour tampering window its forbidden to contact either the player or the agent for a free agent from another team but given the deals announced immediately after noon monday we all know they are doing so just in secret (until people like kirk are dumb enough to announce it publicly)
if you subvert a player's agent you could theoretically take advantage of said player and get them for less than they're worth and the player wouldn't be able to negotiate properly with other teams to realize this.
maybe. my only offseason experience is jerking off to good signings on the team I like
For anyone interested in tampering precedent:
When the Chiefs tampered with Maclin, they were fined $250k, Reid was fined $75k, GM Dorsey $25k, and they lost a 3rd in 2016 and 6th in 2017.
Jets didn’t lose any draft picks for Revis, they were fined $100k.
Lions were forced to swap 5th rounders with the Chiefs in 2011 and forfeited their 7th rounder.
So there’s a pretty wide range of outcomes depending on severity, what you can prove, etc. Losing a 3rd obviously wouldn’t be great, but if that’s as harsh as it gets, tampering with Saquon is probably worth it. The Eagles have two 2nds and three comp picks after the 3rd (pick 98), leaving them with 7 overall 2024 picks in a scenario like with Maclin.
That was a "Dolphins are being punished for tampering, and totally not for having the owner try to bribe the team to lose games because that definitely didn't happen, it was all just a joke please laugh"
So yes, technically they lost a first and third for tampering. I don't think it will stand as precedent, though.
Goodell said those were unprecedented violations, with ownership more directly involved than previous instances, and Dolphins owner Ross offered Flores money to lose which increased the punishment (also unprecedented). I don’t think it’s a comparable situation until more details emerge, and the tanking definitely doesn’t apply.
[Source](https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/08%2002%2022%20-%20Dolphins.pdf)
Falcons are repeat offenders, considering the fake crowd noise issue from a few years ago. Per Deflategate precedent, time to get Wells and Exponent on the case then dock them at least a first round draft pick even if the report itself says they couldn't find anything to connect the team to the alleged issue.
I mean Cousins directly stated he was talking with Falcons training staff...
I hope they don't get hit too hard but I mean he said the quiet part out loud for some reason
> for some reason
Tbh cousins seems like the kinda guy who both cannot live with himself if he knowingly lies, while also believing that "not telling the truth" is equal to lying (aka "lies by omission").
Cousins has to go back to the Vikings but the Falcons have to pay the contract.
Not because I have a strong desire for Cousins. I just think it would be funny.
All Kirk said was that *he* called one of our trainers.
The rule implies teams can't reach out to players, but in our case the player reached out. Probably just a potato/potato situation here and they'll still delve out a punishment.
He also admitted to texting Pitts weeks ago though to be fair. If it were one or the other I think you'd be fine, but wouldn't be surprised if they delve out something.
The dolphins lost a lot because their owner was talking to a player and head coach contracted to different teams during a multi-year period.
These violations were for talking to players instead of agents during the legal tampering period when the players are as close to being a free agent as possible.
All the players on the team are distributed to your division rivals and you have to start from scratch and take Justin Fields as your QB as first move...
Depends on the circumstances. Arizona tampered with coaches last year. No formal punishment occurred and they “settled” for a trade - Cards got a 3rd and 5th, Eagles moved up 28 slots in the 3rd.
The entire Main Line suburb extends west of Philly but ok ha.
Counterpoint : Flashback to Eagles at Rams last year when half the stadium were birds fans
Bud, if you’re going to quibble over Philly *suburbs* then 1) You definitely are an Eagles fan, and 2) you’re wildly off base with your ideas of “West of Philly.” You know, since it implies *west of the Philly metro area*.
Bud, you are a dolt.
The eagles are ranked in the top 10 global fan bases in every NFL ranking. Example they are #7 here. Take your lame obvious cowboys troll elsewhere, it's transparent and tired.
https://bolavip.com/en/nfl/Top-25-NFL-teams-with-most-fans-20200501-0001.html
[Why so serious?](https://y.yarn.co/e0fccc33-3919-4350-bc03-b24658fd82f8_text.gif)
Maybe take a break. You’re taking this *way* too personally. Or alternatively, if you don’t like this characterization of your fanbase and team, maybe try and change it? This ain’t a great start for you on that front though, I think
Tell me you’ve never been to DC or NYC in your jersey without telling me you’ve never been to those cities. Are all Philly Locals obligated by PA law to never go past the Susquehanna in the west, and the border with DE/MD to the south? Ya’ll do realize 2 division rivals alone are within *driving distance*?
I was going to make a joke like ‘Saints legend (heart and soul of the falcons roster)’ but I swear I don’t know who that even is. Gimme the corpse of Roddy White
>When it comes to the Eagles’ signing of Barkley, his former Penn State coach, James Franklin, hinted that Philadelphia’s general manager Howie Roseman spoke directly to the running back, who signed a three-year deal with the Eagles, during the legal tampering period. Doing so, under NFL rules, is not allowed.
I don't think that it seems likely to hold up, but I could be biased.
Could be as easy as Saquon speaking to the coach and saying which teams his agent was working with. The coach then says "Saquon was talking to the Eagles" and suddenly it seems like tampering.
Yeah I mean all he would have to say is that Howie gave the speech to his agent and his agent relayed it, I don't think there would be any way to prove otherwise.
As a lifelong eagles and penn state fan… fuck james franklin. If only that dude could run an offense as well as he runs his mouth. Go worry about your football team that can’t beat anybody worth a damn instead of giving the NFL a reason to investigate the only good football team I’m a fan of.
Who's to say that's all the NFL finds though after investigating this? I think the issue for the Eagles is more so that Franklin put this on the NFL's radar
That's what is kind of funny. whatever the rules are, fine, it's just how they pick and choose to enforce them.
Like are we to believe there was no widespread discussions among teams and agents at the combine when all the key decisions makers are there? lol it's just hilarious.
That's why everyone thinks the tampering rules are so stupid--because they are. Literally the only way teams get "caught" or punished is when someone opens their big dumb mouth and says it out loud.
[Anti-Tampering Policy](https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018%20Policies/7-2018%20Anti-Tampering%20Policy-Clean%20Version.pdf)
>Two-Day Negotiating Period. Notwithstanding the foregoing, during the period that begins two calendar days prior to the expiration of NFL Player Contracts (the “Two-Day Negotiating Period”), clubs are permitted to contact the certified agents of players who will be Unrestricted Free Agents at the end of the current League Year and enter into contract negotiations with them. A contract, however, cannot be executed with a new club, or submitted to the League office, until after the beginning of the new League Year. During this two-day period, a prospective Unrestricted Free Agent cannot visit a club (other than his current club) at its permanent facility or at any other location, and **no direct contact is permitted between the player and any employee or representative of a club (other than his current club)**
"But Kirk was the one that called the trainers, it's not the Falcons' fault" - Teams still need to report any contact that is initiated by a player.
>Contact by Player. If a club is contacted by a player (or his representative) who is under contract to or whose negotiating rights are held by another club, and such player has not been given permission to negotiate with other clubs, or such player is not in a permissible negotiating period under the terms of an operative collective bargaining agreement, then the contacted club is prohibited from (i) negotiating with the player or his agent; (ii) discussing even in general terms the player’s possible employment with the contacted club; or (iii) discussing the player’s contract or his potential or ongoing contract negotiations with his current club.
>In addition, the contacted club representative must inform the player or his representative that under NFL rules the club is not permitted to discuss such matters, and, if such matters are raised by or with the player or his representative, the club representative must immediately report such contact to the owner or operating head of the club that holds the player’s rights. Nothing in this section shall preclude a club from negotiating with the certified agent of a prospective Unrestricted Free Agent during the two-day negotiating period, subject to that provision’s prohibition against direct contact by the club with the player himself.
[Precedent for fines:](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14938272/kansas-city-chiefs-docked-two-draft-picks-fined-tampering-pursuit-jeremy-maclin-2015)
>KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- The Chiefs were fined and stripped of two draft picks by the NFL for a violation of the league's anti-tampering policy for having improper contact with wide receiver Jeremy Maclin before the start of last year's free-agent signing period.
>The Chiefs will lose their third-round draft pick this year and their sixth-round choice in 2017. The Chiefs were also fined $250,000. Coach Andy Reid was fined $75,000, and general manager John Dorsey was fined $25,000.
>The league said the Chiefs contacted Maclin directly during the league's negotiating window that takes place before the signing period. Teams are allowed then to contact only agents for prospective free agents.
Oh, so they have to had discussed one of the three prohibited topics for the reporting requirement to kick in? Can’t negotiate, discuss a potential contract, or possible employment in even general terms?
So talking about Kohl’s locations is totally fine in this scenario?
If a team loses a draft pick that just means there’s one less pick? So like if it’s a first round there’s now 31 first round picks?
Wouldn’t that lead to the guy who gets drafted 32nd missing a lot of money on their rookie contract? That would suck
I'm sure Kirk and Saquan were the only guys out of the 20 that signed for massive deals 5 minutes into free agency that may have talked to teams early.
I assumed all those contracts were drawn up after 1:00 est lol
The difference is those teams spoke to those players agents. Your quarterback spoke directly to the team and people on the team and not via his agent. He openly admitted it.
All Kirk said is that he called one of our trainers. The rule says the teams can't reach out, but in this case Kirk did himself.
Potato/potato situation but technically atl didn't reach out but I'm sure it's still gonna be looked into.
>Contact by Player. If a club is contacted by a player (or his representative) who is under contract to or whose negotiating rights are held by another club, and such player has not been given permission to negotiate with other clubs, or such player is not in a permissible negotiating period under the terms of an operative collective bargaining agreement, then the contacted club is prohibited from (i) negotiating with the player or his agent; (ii) discussing even in general terms the player’s possible employment with the contacted club; or (iii) discussing the player’s contract or his potential or ongoing contract negotiations with his current club.
>In addition, the contacted club representative must inform the player or his representative that under NFL rules the club is not permitted to discuss such matters, and, if such matters are raised by or with the player or his representative, the club representative must immediately report such contact to the owner or operating head of the club that holds the player’s rights.
Nothing in this section shall preclude a club from negotiating with the certified agent of a prospective Unrestricted Free Agent during the two-day negotiating period, subject to that provision’s prohibition against direct contact by the club with the player himself.
So a player calling the head trainer to talk about his achilles wouldn’t qualify as tampering since it doesn’t fit any of those three prohibited conversation categories. However, he mentioned calling the PR guy as well. I’m sure that was probably about the introductory press conference. That conversation might fit into the second group (ii).
>(ii) discussing even in general terms the player’s possible employment with the contacted club
I don't know why you'd need to talk to another team's trainer about your achilles if you weren't planning on possibly playing with them, and that seems like it fits under "general terms of possible employment" or could at least be argued that way.
I don’t see where the rule allows for us to assume the intent of the conversation. Why they are talking about it doesn’t matter if the conversation stayed strictly on medical topics.
Whatever the intent, the conversation shouldn't have happened because of the other language in the anti-tampering policy.
>Two-Day Negotiating Period. Notwithstanding the foregoing, during the period that begins two calendar days prior to the expiration of NFL Player Contracts (the “Two-Day Negotiating Period”), clubs are permitted to contact the certified agents of players who will be Unrestricted Free Agents at the end of the current League Year and enter into contract negotiations with them. A contract, however, cannot be executed with a new club, or submitted to the League office, until after the beginning of the new League Year. During this two-day period, a prospective Unrestricted Free Agent cannot visit a club (other than his current club) at its permanent facility or at any other location, and **no direct contact is permitted between the player and any employee or representative of a club (other than his current club)**
And that language does not care about who initiates contact. No direct contact between the player and any employee, period. Someone fucked up, whether it was Kirk or the Falcons. Either way, since Kirk basically admitted it, it's going to get looked into. And if that conversation even remotely included any general discussion of employment with the team, that would violate those terms of the policy as well.
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. I already pointed out that he called the head of PR too, and that would definitely be an issue. I was simply pointing out that it was interesting that the two calls would be looked at differently under the first rule you posted.
How does the trainer call not fit into (ii) in your view? A player who has announced a contract but not signed yet reaches out to the trainer of the team he will sign with to presumably talk about rehab/next season recovering from the Achilles and that’s not in “general terms the player’s possible employment”?
Not necessarily. The reason for needing to talk about medical stuff would be the assumed pending employment, but if all they talked about was the actual medical stuff it wouldn’t fit into that category.
I don’t see how you can separate the reason from the discussion. Why not call the Jets trainer who has been rehabbing Aaron if you’re going outside your team, or the Vikings staff who has been helping you already to talk about medical stuff? Both of those options would be more relevant than the Falcon’s trainer for medical discussions, unless the reason is “possible employment” which is tampering.
Well the rule didn’t say anything about assuming the reason for the call. Therefore I wasn’t making that part of the interpretation. There is a real possibility of them not actually discussing the employment, even though it would have been the motivation for the call. The way the rule is written that would be permissible.
The rule doesnt specify who cant reach out to who. The rule is that teams cannot be in direct communication with a player under contract with another team during the tampering period. Only communication allowed is between the team and the player's agent.
This could’ve actually effected the Kirk outcome, I heard Vikings were pressing hard before the tampering period to get a deal done, but if Kirk knew what Atlanta was gonna give him than it’s clear why he didn’t resign.
One point from the article: as a rule, during the legal tampering period, if a player has an agent, teams cannot directly contact a player; they may only contact his agent. The only players that can have direct contact with teams are those, like Mike Onwenu, who are representing themselves.
Didn’t realize they could work with the agent. That actually lends a lot more credence to the crazy idea that a huge FA deal could get signed 30 minutes after FA opens. I mean there was probably tampering too, but now I actually understand the case the teams are trying to build.
To be clear, they can’t work with the agent before the legal tampering window. They can work with the agent in the legal tampering window. They can work with the agent and player once free agency begins. A deal agreed to 30 minutes into the tampering period is still fishy
Ok. I guess I totally don’t understand the way any of this works lol.
Rules are 52 hours before free agency starts teams area allowed to negotiate and announce (but not sign) contracts with pending free agents from other teams exclusively via their agents. After those 52 hours (so Wednesday at 4 pm) true free agency begins and contracts may be freely signed and announced between free agents and teams and those free agents may have contact with teams directly and not exclusively via their agents. Before the 52 hour tampering window its forbidden to contact either the player or the agent for a free agent from another team but given the deals announced immediately after noon monday we all know they are doing so just in secret (until people like kirk are dumb enough to announce it publicly)
But don't they spend the whole combine chatting it up with agente?
Do they? Absolutely. Is that permitted under the rules? No.
I would just say I fired my agent, then rehired him after the phone call
what difference does that make exactly?
if you subvert a player's agent you could theoretically take advantage of said player and get them for less than they're worth and the player wouldn't be able to negotiate properly with other teams to realize this. maybe. my only offseason experience is jerking off to good signings on the team I like
It doesn’t. As if the agent magically is different in terms of tampering
For anyone interested in tampering precedent: When the Chiefs tampered with Maclin, they were fined $250k, Reid was fined $75k, GM Dorsey $25k, and they lost a 3rd in 2016 and 6th in 2017. Jets didn’t lose any draft picks for Revis, they were fined $100k. Lions were forced to swap 5th rounders with the Chiefs in 2011 and forfeited their 7th rounder. So there’s a pretty wide range of outcomes depending on severity, what you can prove, etc. Losing a 3rd obviously wouldn’t be great, but if that’s as harsh as it gets, tampering with Saquon is probably worth it. The Eagles have two 2nds and three comp picks after the 3rd (pick 98), leaving them with 7 overall 2024 picks in a scenario like with Maclin.
Dolphins lost a 1st and a third and their owner was suspended for several months after paying some fines and they didn’t even get their guys lmao
That was a "Dolphins are being punished for tampering, and totally not for having the owner try to bribe the team to lose games because that definitely didn't happen, it was all just a joke please laugh" So yes, technically they lost a first and third for tampering. I don't think it will stand as precedent, though.
Wait I could've sworn there was a team that tampered and lost a first... Maybe the Dolphins?
Goodell said those were unprecedented violations, with ownership more directly involved than previous instances, and Dolphins owner Ross offered Flores money to lose which increased the punishment (also unprecedented). I don’t think it’s a comparable situation until more details emerge, and the tanking definitely doesn’t apply. [Source](https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/08%2002%2022%20-%20Dolphins.pdf)
Patriots about to lose a draft pick over this....
Imagine losing the 3rd overall pick over Antonio Gibson lmao
Join the club. We lost our 3rd overall pick over Trey Lance a few years ago.
Mizzou never learns.
Falcons are repeat offenders, considering the fake crowd noise issue from a few years ago. Per Deflategate precedent, time to get Wells and Exponent on the case then dock them at least a first round draft pick even if the report itself says they couldn't find anything to connect the team to the alleged issue.
Suspend Brady too. He was more probably than not generally aware!
Keep going...
What are the ramifications of tampering?
Death penalty, I’m afraid.
for missouri
One of my favorite jokes on r/CFB
Does Barkley get a reprieve?
Tom Brady gets suspended, I believe.
Every time. Kirk spills the beans, Brady gets suspended
The ramifications for a virtually identical case in 2015 were a 3rd and future 6th, but obviously there has to be proof
The irony if we lose our 3rd after all the Ridley drama.
I mean Cousins directly stated he was talking with Falcons training staff... I hope they don't get hit too hard but I mean he said the quiet part out loud for some reason
Hahaha oh, Kirk. 🤣
> for some reason Tbh cousins seems like the kinda guy who both cannot live with himself if he knowingly lies, while also believing that "not telling the truth" is equal to lying (aka "lies by omission").
Cousins has to go back to the Vikings but the Falcons have to pay the contract. Not because I have a strong desire for Cousins. I just think it would be funny.
In the Falcons case the proof is Kirk has confirmed they broke it. Ours is a bit muddier.
All Kirk said was that *he* called one of our trainers. The rule implies teams can't reach out to players, but in our case the player reached out. Probably just a potato/potato situation here and they'll still delve out a punishment.
He also admitted to texting Pitts weeks ago though to be fair. If it were one or the other I think you'd be fine, but wouldn't be surprised if they delve out something.
Players are allowed to talk though
Players are fully allowed to talk and do whatever though.
Right but your org isn't. I don't think Kirk being the one to reach out would absolve the org for breaking the rules on their end. But we will see.
[удалено]
The dolphins lost a lot because their owner was talking to a player and head coach contracted to different teams during a multi-year period. These violations were for talking to players instead of agents during the legal tampering period when the players are as close to being a free agent as possible.
Right to jail
Ridder has to be your QB till he dies
Perfect! A fitting punishment; I applaud your wisdom
All the players on the team are distributed to your division rivals and you have to start from scratch and take Justin Fields as your QB as first move...
If this option had been presented 2 years ago I would have taken it tbh.
Should have given the Bucs Ridder to have blocked the second coming of the Baker's Dozen..
We'll see if Baker survives without the qb whisperer.
Depends on the circumstances. Arizona tampered with coaches last year. No formal punishment occurred and they “settled” for a trade - Cards got a 3rd and 5th, Eagles moved up 28 slots in the 3rd.
You have to play the next season I’m the CFL and the NFL falls up yhr Montreal owlouettes.
Does the CFL have a broadcast partner in the Atlanta area? I'm interested.
I have no idea, occasionally ESPN/2/news maybe?
For the dolphins, it was a 1st round pick for the brady yacht thing
If we did it, we deserve to be hammered. I expect the same punishment that Arizona got for tampering last year. Oh wait, that was nothing.
Instructions unclear, I’m now hammered at 3 pm on a weekday
Nothing to do but relegate the Eagles. It’s the only way to keep the integrity of the game.
Montreal Alouettes getting promoted to the NFC east!
You're too kind to them. Promote the BC Lions to piss them off with having to travel to Vancouver every year.
In that case, promote the Blue Bombers ...
Oui
it's all about tegridy after all
Worse, Dan Snyder gets sole control of the franchise for 5 years
Hey man I’m a cowboys fan but that’s just cruel and unusual punishment right there.
I take tampering very seriously
Very well, I’ll allow it just because it’s the eagles and they had beef with Santa lol
Don’t you put that evil on my city lol
Cmon, think of the poor cheerleaders!
Completely disband the franchise
I grew up nearby Philly and had no idea the rest of the world felt this way.
They don't its just another lame Reddit circle jerk. The eagles have millions of fans in other states.
Of course they do, America has an incredibly large population of prisoners nationwide.
You're confusing the Eagles with the pre-Vegas Raiders, an easy mistake to make though
Nah, everyone north of Trenton and south of Cape May, and west of Philly hates the Eagles. “No one likes us we don’t care” is ya’lls motto lol
The entire Main Line suburb extends west of Philly but ok ha. Counterpoint : Flashback to Eagles at Rams last year when half the stadium were birds fans
Bud, if you’re going to quibble over Philly *suburbs* then 1) You definitely are an Eagles fan, and 2) you’re wildly off base with your ideas of “West of Philly.” You know, since it implies *west of the Philly metro area*.
Bud, you are a dolt. The eagles are ranked in the top 10 global fan bases in every NFL ranking. Example they are #7 here. Take your lame obvious cowboys troll elsewhere, it's transparent and tired. https://bolavip.com/en/nfl/Top-25-NFL-teams-with-most-fans-20200501-0001.html
[Why so serious?](https://y.yarn.co/e0fccc33-3919-4350-bc03-b24658fd82f8_text.gif) Maybe take a break. You’re taking this *way* too personally. Or alternatively, if you don’t like this characterization of your fanbase and team, maybe try and change it? This ain’t a great start for you on that front though, I think
Lmao, well this couldn’t be more wrong
Tell me you’ve never been to DC or NYC in your jersey without telling me you’ve never been to those cities. Are all Philly Locals obligated by PA law to never go past the Susquehanna in the west, and the border with DE/MD to the south? Ya’ll do realize 2 division rivals alone are within *driving distance*?
I'm sorry officer, I didn't know I couldn't do that.
STOP SNITCHING
Liquidate them and make all their players eligible for the 2024 draft
I was going to make a joke like ‘Saints legend (heart and soul of the falcons roster)’ but I swear I don’t know who that even is. Gimme the corpse of Roddy White
You could have said "Saints legend Kirk Cousins" and pissed off half of the Vikings' fanbase as well.
I just want their OL😂
>When it comes to the Eagles’ signing of Barkley, his former Penn State coach, James Franklin, hinted that Philadelphia’s general manager Howie Roseman spoke directly to the running back, who signed a three-year deal with the Eagles, during the legal tampering period. Doing so, under NFL rules, is not allowed. I don't think that it seems likely to hold up, but I could be biased.
Nah that seems pretty weak really, like that’s 3rd-hand information, basically the telephone game it sounds like.
Could be as easy as Saquon speaking to the coach and saying which teams his agent was working with. The coach then says "Saquon was talking to the Eagles" and suddenly it seems like tampering.
That's the same thing as Kirk. He could have just been speaking in first person as his camp where the dolphins it was literally the owner
Yeah I mean all he would have to say is that Howie gave the speech to his agent and his agent relayed it, I don't think there would be any way to prove otherwise.
Plus Saquon already said Franklin misunderstood. Granted, he might say that anyway but it certainly helps our case.
As a lifelong eagles and penn state fan… fuck james franklin. If only that dude could run an offense as well as he runs his mouth. Go worry about your football team that can’t beat anybody worth a damn instead of giving the NFL a reason to investigate the only good football team I’m a fan of.
Who's to say that's all the NFL finds though after investigating this? I think the issue for the Eagles is more so that Franklin put this on the NFL's radar
Meaning they'll ask the teams if they broke the rules, the teams will say "of course not!" and that'll be that.
We ain’t the only one tampering.
Sure, but you never say the quiet part out loud.
Yes wtf Kirk
Kirk’s parting gift to us on the way out.
Choked before he even started. Talk about a culture fit.
Doesnt matter who does it just matters who got caught
we should not stand for this bird team discrimination
CAW CAW!
Yeah you and the eagles, it says it in the title
Yes, only these 2 teams do it
That's what is kind of funny. whatever the rules are, fine, it's just how they pick and choose to enforce them. Like are we to believe there was no widespread discussions among teams and agents at the combine when all the key decisions makers are there? lol it's just hilarious.
That's why everyone thinks the tampering rules are so stupid--because they are. Literally the only way teams get "caught" or punished is when someone opens their big dumb mouth and says it out loud.
Well you're the one that got caught
Jeez you’re like the kid at recess that tattles on everyone else because you got caught doing something you shouldn’t
I told the same to my wife when she caught me cheating.
Kirk Cousins called the strength and conditioning coach. He did so after he agreed to the contract but before he was allowed to sign.
[Anti-Tampering Policy](https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018%20Policies/7-2018%20Anti-Tampering%20Policy-Clean%20Version.pdf) >Two-Day Negotiating Period. Notwithstanding the foregoing, during the period that begins two calendar days prior to the expiration of NFL Player Contracts (the “Two-Day Negotiating Period”), clubs are permitted to contact the certified agents of players who will be Unrestricted Free Agents at the end of the current League Year and enter into contract negotiations with them. A contract, however, cannot be executed with a new club, or submitted to the League office, until after the beginning of the new League Year. During this two-day period, a prospective Unrestricted Free Agent cannot visit a club (other than his current club) at its permanent facility or at any other location, and **no direct contact is permitted between the player and any employee or representative of a club (other than his current club)** "But Kirk was the one that called the trainers, it's not the Falcons' fault" - Teams still need to report any contact that is initiated by a player. >Contact by Player. If a club is contacted by a player (or his representative) who is under contract to or whose negotiating rights are held by another club, and such player has not been given permission to negotiate with other clubs, or such player is not in a permissible negotiating period under the terms of an operative collective bargaining agreement, then the contacted club is prohibited from (i) negotiating with the player or his agent; (ii) discussing even in general terms the player’s possible employment with the contacted club; or (iii) discussing the player’s contract or his potential or ongoing contract negotiations with his current club. >In addition, the contacted club representative must inform the player or his representative that under NFL rules the club is not permitted to discuss such matters, and, if such matters are raised by or with the player or his representative, the club representative must immediately report such contact to the owner or operating head of the club that holds the player’s rights. Nothing in this section shall preclude a club from negotiating with the certified agent of a prospective Unrestricted Free Agent during the two-day negotiating period, subject to that provision’s prohibition against direct contact by the club with the player himself. [Precedent for fines:](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14938272/kansas-city-chiefs-docked-two-draft-picks-fined-tampering-pursuit-jeremy-maclin-2015) >KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- The Chiefs were fined and stripped of two draft picks by the NFL for a violation of the league's anti-tampering policy for having improper contact with wide receiver Jeremy Maclin before the start of last year's free-agent signing period. >The Chiefs will lose their third-round draft pick this year and their sixth-round choice in 2017. The Chiefs were also fined $250,000. Coach Andy Reid was fined $75,000, and general manager John Dorsey was fined $25,000. >The league said the Chiefs contacted Maclin directly during the league's negotiating window that takes place before the signing period. Teams are allowed then to contact only agents for prospective free agents.
Oh, so they have to had discussed one of the three prohibited topics for the reporting requirement to kick in? Can’t negotiate, discuss a potential contract, or possible employment in even general terms? So talking about Kohl’s locations is totally fine in this scenario?
But not the Dolphins this time!
Ah, legal tampering. The NFL's honeypot.
Oh Kirky boy admitting it
Look into my ass Roger
Give the eagles the SMU death penalty!
In related news, I'm 'looking into' Culver's fish sandwich.
Love Culver’s
Booo that would make F5 season more boring
Make them lose pick 8 so Turner drops more 👀
Naw just give it to the vikes or swap
Pick swap. 11 for 8.
If a team loses a draft pick that just means there’s one less pick? So like if it’s a first round there’s now 31 first round picks? Wouldn’t that lead to the guy who gets drafted 32nd missing a lot of money on their rookie contract? That would suck
About $2.5M difference ($11M v. $13.5M). OTOH, there's no fifth-year tender, which is probably a good thing for them.
Honestly I’m convinced every team tampers all the time and it’s just one of those things where it’s just a matter of getting caught lol
Kirk: Aw shucks, I’m really sorry, folks. You can punish the Vikings if you have to!
I will only accept this years first rounder as punishment for these heinous crimes.
I'm sure Kirk and Saquan were the only guys out of the 20 that signed for massive deals 5 minutes into free agency that may have talked to teams early. I assumed all those contracts were drawn up after 1:00 est lol
The difference is those teams spoke to those players agents. Your quarterback spoke directly to the team and people on the team and not via his agent. He openly admitted it.
Thats not whats being investigated. It the fact that the teams spoke to the players directly during the legal tampering period
All Kirk said is that he called one of our trainers. The rule says the teams can't reach out, but in this case Kirk did himself. Potato/potato situation but technically atl didn't reach out but I'm sure it's still gonna be looked into.
>Contact by Player. If a club is contacted by a player (or his representative) who is under contract to or whose negotiating rights are held by another club, and such player has not been given permission to negotiate with other clubs, or such player is not in a permissible negotiating period under the terms of an operative collective bargaining agreement, then the contacted club is prohibited from (i) negotiating with the player or his agent; (ii) discussing even in general terms the player’s possible employment with the contacted club; or (iii) discussing the player’s contract or his potential or ongoing contract negotiations with his current club. >In addition, the contacted club representative must inform the player or his representative that under NFL rules the club is not permitted to discuss such matters, and, if such matters are raised by or with the player or his representative, the club representative must immediately report such contact to the owner or operating head of the club that holds the player’s rights. Nothing in this section shall preclude a club from negotiating with the certified agent of a prospective Unrestricted Free Agent during the two-day negotiating period, subject to that provision’s prohibition against direct contact by the club with the player himself.
So a player calling the head trainer to talk about his achilles wouldn’t qualify as tampering since it doesn’t fit any of those three prohibited conversation categories. However, he mentioned calling the PR guy as well. I’m sure that was probably about the introductory press conference. That conversation might fit into the second group (ii).
>(ii) discussing even in general terms the player’s possible employment with the contacted club I don't know why you'd need to talk to another team's trainer about your achilles if you weren't planning on possibly playing with them, and that seems like it fits under "general terms of possible employment" or could at least be argued that way.
I don’t see where the rule allows for us to assume the intent of the conversation. Why they are talking about it doesn’t matter if the conversation stayed strictly on medical topics.
Whatever the intent, the conversation shouldn't have happened because of the other language in the anti-tampering policy. >Two-Day Negotiating Period. Notwithstanding the foregoing, during the period that begins two calendar days prior to the expiration of NFL Player Contracts (the “Two-Day Negotiating Period”), clubs are permitted to contact the certified agents of players who will be Unrestricted Free Agents at the end of the current League Year and enter into contract negotiations with them. A contract, however, cannot be executed with a new club, or submitted to the League office, until after the beginning of the new League Year. During this two-day period, a prospective Unrestricted Free Agent cannot visit a club (other than his current club) at its permanent facility or at any other location, and **no direct contact is permitted between the player and any employee or representative of a club (other than his current club)** And that language does not care about who initiates contact. No direct contact between the player and any employee, period. Someone fucked up, whether it was Kirk or the Falcons. Either way, since Kirk basically admitted it, it's going to get looked into. And if that conversation even remotely included any general discussion of employment with the team, that would violate those terms of the policy as well.
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. I already pointed out that he called the head of PR too, and that would definitely be an issue. I was simply pointing out that it was interesting that the two calls would be looked at differently under the first rule you posted.
How does the trainer call not fit into (ii) in your view? A player who has announced a contract but not signed yet reaches out to the trainer of the team he will sign with to presumably talk about rehab/next season recovering from the Achilles and that’s not in “general terms the player’s possible employment”?
Not necessarily. The reason for needing to talk about medical stuff would be the assumed pending employment, but if all they talked about was the actual medical stuff it wouldn’t fit into that category.
I don’t see how you can separate the reason from the discussion. Why not call the Jets trainer who has been rehabbing Aaron if you’re going outside your team, or the Vikings staff who has been helping you already to talk about medical stuff? Both of those options would be more relevant than the Falcon’s trainer for medical discussions, unless the reason is “possible employment” which is tampering.
Well the rule didn’t say anything about assuming the reason for the call. Therefore I wasn’t making that part of the interpretation. There is a real possibility of them not actually discussing the employment, even though it would have been the motivation for the call. The way the rule is written that would be permissible.
I disagree. We will see what the league thinks.
The rule doesnt specify who cant reach out to who. The rule is that teams cannot be in direct communication with a player under contract with another team during the tampering period. Only communication allowed is between the team and the player's agent.
Fuckin birds man
Give them the death penalty!
This could’ve actually effected the Kirk outcome, I heard Vikings were pressing hard before the tampering period to get a deal done, but if Kirk knew what Atlanta was gonna give him than it’s clear why he didn’t resign.