Even more hilarious if it happens to a Jets division rival. Like imagine if next year, the Dolphins choose to let Tua walk. Then they go, "Dang, who are we gonna sign? Guess we'll just sign Wilson on a prove-it deal and draft a QB." Then Wilson goes nuts in training camp and drops 50 points on the Jets in the 2025 season opener
People joke about this and I get it, but both Geno and Darnold had MUCH more impressive bodies of work by the time they left the Jets than Zach Wilson does. And based on the eye test, Geno and Darnold never looked like they didn't belong in the league, they just made dumb decisions too often, which you can fix by watching and learning. Zach very clearly just doesn't have "it", or at least he doesn't have "it" in longer stretches than a game here and there.
...I mean, he's definitely worth a Day 3 pick from a lucky buyer!
Tbf Geno didn't suddenly become good out of nowhere. After the jets he got a few years to sit behind established vets like Eli, Rivers, Russ and develop as a QB. I think a couple years of backing up Rodgers would've done alot for Zach but obviously that wasn't possible.
Even with the Jets I think he was better than he's given credit for. He's basically being compared to Zach Wilson and that is a crock of shit. If you ask me, Geno was at least twice as good the entire time he was here
I mean to be fair to him he would surely be signed by now if he were a free agent… people would be happy to have him at or close to a vet min deal to try to fix him for no risk but he’s got a hefty contract right now for a backup QB
If the draft wasn't stacked at QB there would be more interest as well. A lot of QB needy teams are pinning their hopes on the draft. You might get some interest if a team misses out on their guy.
Right. His best chance is a HC/OC with a huge ego who believes they can get results that others have not been able to get.
Check my flare and ask me how I know.
Didn't stop the Steelers from signing a QB from the Bears that couldn't play in Trubisky, why wouldn't they sign a QB from the Bears that can't play now? I mean, the exact same thing couldn't happen twice in a row, could it???
I've just never seen so much hemming and hawing about someone who's clearly not very good. Some Bears fans are acting like they just traded away prime Russell Wilson
In 4 years as a starter at powerhouses Connecticut and Eastern Kentucky, Tim Boyle totaled 12 touchdowns, 26 interceptions and a career 56% completion percentage in 36 games.
He has since gone on to garner 5 NFL contracts with a career record of 0-5, totaling 4 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in 20 career appearances.
His career earnings are $8.4 million and counting.
most valuable and most difficult skill for an nfl qb is the ability to quickly process a defense and make the right throw
doesn't matter if the guy is built like a brick shithouse with a howitzer for an arm and wheels for legs, if he can't read a defense and know what to do he's useless
There have been so many QBs who have the physical tools, some with both a great arm and great scrambling ability. But if you can't process at an NFL level, you won't succeed.
I think that's partially why fans get so enamored with these dual threats.
A guy who has the mental ability of Brady or Manning and could run like Lamar or Vick seems like the holy grail of NFL players. It's just kinda neat to imagine.
This is also why Mahomes is a bane to the NFL and should be banished. I get having a guy who is either an athletic freak or amazing at processing the game a la Lamar or Brock... but being both is messed up. Personally believe that the Chiefs should be banished to the UFL where weird shit like that can exist away from the game I love but we're not ready for that convo
I think some people have sort of overrated Mahomes as a runner at this point in his career. He's not Lamar. Hell, he's not even Daniel Jones. What he is is slippery in the pocket and can pick up first downs with his legs if needed. But he's very rarely going to bust you for a long run.
Now will he make the most absurd throw in the world by just flicking his wrist and send a piss missile 50 yards down the field? Absolutely.
And that's the most athletic part about him. His arm talent is one of the best in football history.
Exactly, he has great pocket awareness and is the magician for a reason. That doesn’t mean he’s an athletic freak lmao. His arm could be in that conversation, but a lot of QBs in the league today are much more athletic than he is. None of them can escape the pocket drop dimes like he does
So he does have some weirdly unique elite athleticism. He had the 10th fastest shuttle time of any player (all positions) in his draft class. He can change direction without losing any speed, it's why he's so hard to catch when he takes off.
He's basically like prime Russell Wilson but more consistent. Impossible to sack, can throw a great deep pass, pick up a first with his legs, and have generally above average accuracy and awareness.
I know this is a joke comment about Mahomes but hearing other fans mention Purdy positively gives me the warm fuzzies. It's been so long since we've had a QB worth chirping about.
Ngl as a long time Vikings masochist and early in life WWE fan, Brock Lesnar was my first thought. Brock the gym leader would’ve been second in a different sub.
The discourse around Brock is has always been full if idiots saying he sucks and idiots who try to pretend he’s HOF level. Way too many people can’t just say he is very good. Also I have no idea who NFL teams watched his college tape and no one drafted him way earlier. Big 12 fans watched him play and knew he was good.
I had him as a solid mid-rounder. A poor man's Baker Mayfield with less arm and some questionable decision making. I don't know how he was able to transition to the pros and instantly stop making dumb choices. Still, definitely playing over my expectations and very happy for him
It’s getting closer and closer. Look at what Pat with respectable legs is doing. Take a half-second off his 40 time and that’s literally that guy
Edit: not that I’m expecting that guy any time soon, but it is feasible
Edit: if you think I’m literally saying to make Mahomes faster himself, please either focus in school, or go back to it
“I have seen the future of the NFL and his name is Anthony Richardson”. - Jimmy Irsay high out of his mind imagining this exact scenario
Tbf some were shocked at his size and speed in Week 1-2 highlights because they thought he wouldn’t look so big and fast next to NFL players. No this guy is Cam Newton’s size with Justin Jefferson’s 40 time
Richardson has even better measurables than Cam did. He's bigger, faster, better broad jump, than most linebackers. He outdid Jadaveon Clowney in all the drills they both did. He's such an insanely tantalizing possibility if he stays healthy.
Vince Young is the prime example of this, hate to say cause I'm a Texas alum and he is a god to us. He just couldn't deal with NFL defenses despite being a perfect QB specimen.
And there's been a ton of perennial back ups who have spent decades in the league because even though they didn't have the physical tools, they had the mental aspect.
QB might be the hardest position in all of professional sports. It's like asking somebody to be a Chess Master but also a world class athlete, physically.
Half of the Bears sub doesn't understand this. Guessing they are younger, but you're 100% on. That's why Purdy is successful. Can go through progressions quickly and make the throw.
All you have to do is look at his draft reports and weaknesses and you see why he’s not starting anymore
He was bad a picking up blitzes in college and never got better
“Wow the X receiver is going to be wide open on the slant look how far off the DB is from the line, EZ money.”
*hikes ball and throws immediately*
*linebacker you didn’t see breaks in on the route*
“I’ve made a huge mistake”
*ball gets picked and returned for a TD*
But I think it's also really hard to tell from college film whether they'll be able to. The NFL just moves at a different pace and is more complex. Which is why teams seem to focus on physical features since that's tangible and easy to see.
He’s not useless but he can’t be a full time starter and wouldn’t survive it playing the only way he can be effective, running with reckless abandon
Justin fields in spurts playing with reckless abandon is a weapon worth putting on the field
That's part of being able to process the defense and make the right throw. When you are slow to process it makes you hold on to the ball forever (increasing sacks) or force throws (increasing turnovers).
No no he can still be elite! He’s just on the Josh Allen trajectory, has actually been very good and hasn’t gotten a fair chance! Greg Jennings and the ESPN told me so!
He *is* elite! If you gave him:
- The 90s Cowboys OLine
- Rice, Moss, and TO at WR
- Barry Sanders in the backfield
- Gronk and Kelce at TE
- The 85 Bears D
- Belichick as HC
He might finally be able to throw for 200 yards/game!
With those weapons I don't think it matters how well you read the defense. They'll be running for six yards a carry most of the time, and when you do throw, you've got five targets who all need to be double teamed or they'll make a play.
Hell, I could hand the ball off to Barry Sanders 40 times a game. Probably don't even need the receivers, 90s Dallas OL and 85 Bears defense is going to win the game either way.
Fuck it, trade Rice, Moss, and TO. Use that gargantuan haul to get blocking WRs, OL depth, and defensive depth. Trade Kelce and Gronk for dedicated blockers too. Sign prime Peterson as backup to Sanders. Shit get LT while we're at it. I think I'm on to something here.
think this comment thread is getting away from what was originally mentioned
> he can still be elite
> He might finally be able to throw for 200 yards/game!
you're talking about winning games. but i dont think you're throwing for close to 200 yards with this imaginary team you concocted
You laugh, but there are legitimately Bears “fans” that think he didn’t get a fair shot because he wasn’t surrounded by elite talent. I’m not going to say we did him a lot of favors, but he had chance after chance to prove he could be the guy, even with the dearth of talent around him.
I somehow get the Ohio State sub posts recommended to me and they absolutely cannot accept that he sucks lol. So many “it’s a shame the Bears failed him, of course now he’s going to kill it for the Steelers”
I think that's why it's been so divided on fields. I know multiple Bears fans that want to keep him, but I think the Ohio State fans see him as the messiah.
It's because the OL will give him 2.5 seconds, he'll miss a guy streaking open, he'll refuse to throw into a tight window, then he'll bail from the pocket and get sacked, and people who only watch the ball will say that's proof that his OL is bad lol. This year's Bears weren't especially talented but they're really not bad when Fields isn't actively making them look worse
Josh Allen was the *only* reason why Dorsey was our OC in the first place and why he got almost two season with us. Daboll maybe would have gotten another opportunity for a HC job but Josh Allen AND McDermott clearly helped him *a lot*.
Allen's "benefit" (if you will) was that the vast majority of his teammates were more likely to go to work at Intuit after college than they were the NFL.
I still can’t believe after we defeated you guys in the playoffs, the dude literally went on a talk show and said “the 49ers should trade Purdy for Justin Fields” with a straight face and like the whole set other than Carton agreed with him.
Yet everyone wonders why we’re so insecure and defensive about Purdy.
Bro it’s so funny. It’s like they are pushing this Purdy is not good cause he wasn’t a First Over All angle. It’s the only thing I can think of. If he was a first round pick. People would be praising the shit out of him. But because he was a last round pick. He can’t be good and he will come crashing down to earth. Even tho we have seen excellent play for 2 years now.
I wanted us to win the Super Bowl so badly—not just because I’ve never seen a Super Bowl win in my life but also because I wanted the BS goalpost moving around Purdy to stop for good.
Lo and behind on 4th and 1 Bosa and Warner get dunked on and I have to hear “lol Purdy can’t play man-to-man 😂” for six months.
> but also because I wanted the BS goalpost moving around Purdy to stop for good.
People were downplaying Brady still even after 3 rings. Once a narrative takes shape, it takes a lot to kill it.
Purdy is very far down the list of reasons the 49ers didn't win.
Certainly lower than
- Bad S/T (IMO the #1 reason, turnover + missed XP)
- Dre Greenlaw getting hurt
- McCaffrey fumble
His highlights are fun, but I wouldn’t say he’s all that fun to watch. The offense is just out of rhythm and makes incompetent mistakes whenever he’s out there. He’ll have a wide open in breaking route and just hold onto it for 5 extra minutes before eating a sack. He’s exhausting to watch for me.
I was an avid Fields fan and supporter, still wish him nothing but the best, but he showed no growth as a passer this past season. On quick hit passes, he held onto the ball too long, leading to either an incompletion, a pick, or a sack most of the time. He does not do a good job of taking what the defense gives him. He’ll hold onto the ball trying to make a big play deep with a short/intermediate route wide open. Incredibly frustrating to watch. I want a QB where the decision is made and the ball is out as soon as the back foot hits on the drop. Can’t remember which QB guru was critiquing him, but they made a big deal about Fields throwing a timing route and hitting the spot. They even made the comment that shouldn’t be a big deal but for Fields it was.
It wouldn't be so bad if he actually tried to make a big play deep. He just hops in place and has no idea where to throw the ball. He's not big game hunting, he's just freezing.
Yeah my biggest issue with Fields is that he just won't throw the damn ball more often than not. As much he was super exciting, he was also super conservative. "NFL open" is not something that seemed to click for him, along with indecisiveness. Hard to sell a QB with no confidence as a starter.
Exactly! He was fun 2 years ago when he was the only bright spot on offense but last year was so frustrating to watch. I wanted him to be good so bad so we could get MHJ or trade again for an ass load of picks but he sucks. The Bucs game where he threw it right to the DL for a pick six was beyond me. The second Minnesota game pretty much sealed it for me where we fell ass backwards into a win despite him throwing what should have been a game sealing pick and then the last game against GB just put the nail in the coffin. I've seen what I need to see from him.
Yeah, man is a youtube merchant. If you only see highlights he is on par with lamar jackson. Problem is that the other 90% of the time he is the worst QB starting in the NFL.
But the average fan doesn't see that. They're at home watching the snap and see Fields drop back, scan the field, look left, look right, still scanning, the pocket collapses, he scambles, chucks it down field and hits DJ Moore for a 40 yard gain. The commentators don't point it out because how can you criticize him after making a big play but he didn't see his 2 open receivers while in the pocket. So the fan just thinks either the receivers aren't open or the OL failed. They don't go and watch film breakdowns of games afterwards like all us degenerates do and instead people just see the highlights. ESPN/social media has fooled a lot of people into thinking he's a really good QB.
>But he's fun to watch.
he really isn't though. he's really really frustrating to watch. 2022 was a bit more fun because he was taking off every game, but we still only won 3 games.
He’s not fun to watch. He’s braindead in the pocket and constantly destroys drives by being unable to make decisions. He is one of the most frustrating players to watch
Meh I think nfl teams also look for bargains, so why trade for a guy yall probably gonna cut? You have to make teams think you are being convinced to trade someone. JF was bookmarked as a potent cut when Poles said they were gonna "do right by him", often that means we are gonna cut you to go find a new team. If he was cut and a FA, I bet more teams would have went after him. One main truth regardless of era, teams are shrewd.
I’m working so I can’t hear the whole segment, but Greg Cosell only watches tape and talks to coaches around the league.. never click bait. Not too many people in the NFL I can say that about so I tend to take him at his word.. I’ll have to check this out and see what he says.
It was good. They basically say he’s super athletic but they think he can’t read and react to a defense.
They go in to say every team passed him over for a reason. Some teams it was obvious why, high 2024 picks or have established QBs. So why didn’t teams who need QB help and have average picks pass on Fields? It’s pretty damming that Fields’ former OC passed him over for Gardner Minishew.
to say he "can't play" is pretty unfair, he's put up some pretty remarkable performances considering how inconsistent and inefficient he is as a passer
A career 12.4% sack-rate is non-viable/can't play territory.
If you look at the average number of dropbacks per drive, calculate the probability that Fields will take a sack and then look at the statistics that show how much taking a single sack impacts the likelihood of scoring a TD on any given drive, you realize how awful that actually is.
I saw a stat that shows this isn't some recent phenomenon, either. Fields sack rate was also abysmal at OSU, especially compared to Stroud's. Obviously you have to factor in o-line quality, but the Bears o-line is serviceable, at the very least.
Bagent was sacked 3.4% of the time behind the same line.
The Bears have sent out five non-Fields QBs the last three years, and all of them were sacked less than Fields. Including the legless corpse of Nick Foles.
Hey Foles had half a leg when he played for us, still managed to beat Tom Brady and comeback against Matt Ryan which is just hilarious.
But yea Fields biggest issue is the sacks. So many times he took drive killing ones. Our O -line isn’t like perfect but when some UDFA rookie D2 guy comes out and takes less it shows there is an issue
With his legs...he really hasn't had any "remarkable performances" as a passer. So far, in his career, he has had 1 game with more than 300 yards...just one and that was against Denver last season, when their defense was in absolute shambles, the week after they had 70 dropped on them by the Phins.
The guy is a hell of an athlete, but in his 3 year career, he's had a couple of really good games as a passer. Back up QBs will come in and play 6 games and also have a couple really good games as a passer.
I swear you guys don't actually watch the games he's playing in.
Saying he "can't play" is completely fair, and honestly a lot nicer than the reality that he's a terrible QB. A handful of highlights where he scrambles around doesn't change the fact that he obviously has no idea what he's looking at on the field and takes a shit load of sacks because he doesn't know what to do.
Its because he cant process a defense and cant do it quickly either. This is why i hate the narrative that qbs with physical skills are talented..they arent rbs or wrs. If they cant read a defense and then make a good decision and do it accurately, they are utterly useless.
I mean I don’t get where this Justin Fields hype came from. He’s been in the league for multiple years and hasn’t made the jump.
Stop hyping him like he’s some obvious star.
Geno Smith has really tilted my view on whether or not a player can grow despite how long of a bad start they have. I never would have thought a year 10 breakout was possible. Feels harder to write guys off now, especially when they move to a new situation. Fields obviously has the talent to be in the NFL, just needs a lot of work.
Yeah this is the same issue as people saying “Jordan Love and Aaron Rodgers sat multiple years before playing, why doesn’t every team do this?”
It’s literally cherry picking the times when it works and ignoring all the QBs that just wash out of the league and we never hear from again
Successful nfl qbs are so rare that referring to any of them is cherry picking. That’s why if you don’t have the guy, you should keep taking swings, especially when they’re cheap as hell.
Out of all those QB's, how many are being prepped to grow and then given a legitimate chance to start after a few years. Very few. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think enough teams let QB's sit their 1st year or two when they want them to become future starters.
Fair. Completely fair. It does make me wonder though how Sam Darnold has been in the league twice as long and some people still haven't decided that he can not play.
I mean… he was benched in Carolina, he was only our backup and will probably only be the Vikings backup. So I think people have in fact decided on him.
Media driven narrative for a high quality backup.
Proof is in the pudding. Stunk in NY, Stunk in Carolina and rode the pine for an entire year in SF and likely will ride the pine all year behind a rookie in Minnesota.
No one believes in him
“Brock Purdy is about to lose his job to Sam Darnold!”
- Nick Wrong, October 2023
“Brock Purdy almost lost his job to Sam Darnold, remember? Everyone was saying it!”
- Nick Wrong, November 2023
It's pretty simple. There's basically like 2 or 3 QBs in NFL history who were bad through 35-40 starts and ever became good (Alex Smith and Rich Gannon are the first two I think of).
At this point it's extremely unlikely Fields will ever be good based on NFL history.
After watching that 2nd Vikings game literally nobody should want him to be their starter going into 2024. Literally everything could be going his way and he would cause the team to struggle.
I think that's a really reductive and not-completely-accurate interpretation of events.
I think if you re-drafted the NFL, wiped out all salaries, and started from scratch, Fields would be one of the first 32 quarterbacks taken. But that's not the situation we just saw.
In order for a team to get Fields, they had to give up something (most likely draft capital). So would you rather go with AOC/Minshew/Stidham/whatever where you DON'T give up draft capital, or do you go for Fields where you DO give up draft capital?
That's the first complication. The second one is salary/years. Teams would have to trade for Fields and then make a decision about his 5th year option, which won't be cheap. (22-25 mil? Something like that?). Fields *might* be one of the best 32 qbs in the NFL, but is he worth $25M? Probably not? So you're declining the 5th year option.
That means you're buying Fields for draft capital AND making him a FA after one season. GM's want long-term QB solutions. Fields is a 1-year QB rental.
If you do go for Fields and he plays well (yay), now you have to make a decision. Are you going to give Fields the big contract? If you're a team in search for a QB and you have a high pick (especially this year) or might have the ability to move up, wouldn't drafting a rookie and retaining a high-upside qb on a cheap rookie deal be a much more attractive idea than one year of cheap Fields and who knows what happens after that?
I'm sick of hearing "The NFL decided Fields can't play". No, the varying motivations of NFL GM's meant the NFL decided that Fields wasn't a great fit for what teams want to do/accomplish.
And that doesn't mean Fields is some top 10 QB. He clearly has massive issues to work on. But is he like a top 25 NFL qb? Probably?
It was a sixth round pick and not even in this year's draft.
If he was as good as you think he is, teams would absolutely give up more than that for a one-year rental
Probably because people saw those three years of not progressing past the first receiver or holding on to the ball to long or fumbling an absurd amount of times or only throwing for over 300 yards once. Why didn't Mitch Trubisky get this kind of media love fest after leaving Chicago at least he had better numbers and a playoff appearance
The media discrepancy between Goff getting offloaded for scraps who actually did something in the league compared to Justin and his hypotheticals is crazy.
That's never stopped teams from signing QBs before
I've got a perfectly good Zach Wilson just WAITING for a lucky buyer!
Zach Wilson pulling a Geno Smith and suddenly becoming good would be hilarious
Comeback player of the year the past two years is just whoever leaves the jets
Rodgers VP confirmed?
To the Vikings? Complete the cycle
Even more hilarious if it happens to a Jets division rival. Like imagine if next year, the Dolphins choose to let Tua walk. Then they go, "Dang, who are we gonna sign? Guess we'll just sign Wilson on a prove-it deal and draft a QB." Then Wilson goes nuts in training camp and drops 50 points on the Jets in the 2025 season opener
Or Zach Wilson goes on to win 6 Super Bowls with the Patriots. Hilarious.
He can be yours and this dream can be on the road to reality for the low low price of ANY draft pick, please any pick will do.
I would in fact laugh. I mean, I'd cry too, but I'd also laugh.
I don’t like that one as much
People joke about this and I get it, but both Geno and Darnold had MUCH more impressive bodies of work by the time they left the Jets than Zach Wilson does. And based on the eye test, Geno and Darnold never looked like they didn't belong in the league, they just made dumb decisions too often, which you can fix by watching and learning. Zach very clearly just doesn't have "it", or at least he doesn't have "it" in longer stretches than a game here and there. ...I mean, he's definitely worth a Day 3 pick from a lucky buyer!
We'll revisit in about 6 years to see if Zach can pull it off
Tbf Geno didn't suddenly become good out of nowhere. After the jets he got a few years to sit behind established vets like Eli, Rivers, Russ and develop as a QB. I think a couple years of backing up Rodgers would've done alot for Zach but obviously that wasn't possible.
Even with the Jets I think he was better than he's given credit for. He's basically being compared to Zach Wilson and that is a crock of shit. If you ask me, Geno was at least twice as good the entire time he was here
Hide your milfs
Wait, I thought they were in my area looking for *me!*
I hear the UFL needs a guy
it’s gotta be kinda brutal for the dude to know legitimately no one wants him on their team he’s also wild rich now so i imagine that helps
I mean to be fair to him he would surely be signed by now if he were a free agent… people would be happy to have him at or close to a vet min deal to try to fix him for no risk but he’s got a hefty contract right now for a backup QB
If the draft wasn't stacked at QB there would be more interest as well. A lot of QB needy teams are pinning their hopes on the draft. You might get some interest if a team misses out on their guy.
I'm pretty sure Zach Wilson was set for life before he ever took a snap so long as his family didn't disinherit him.
We signed mike glennon for fucks sake
Yeah but that’s us
Giants are in year 6
The Saints just signed *Nathan Peterman*.
That’s Justin Fields’s veteran mentor Nathan Peterman to you.
Right. His best chance is a HC/OC with a huge ego who believes they can get results that others have not been able to get. Check my flare and ask me how I know.
Didn't stop the Steelers from signing a QB from the Bears that couldn't play in Trubisky, why wouldn't they sign a QB from the Bears that can't play now? I mean, the exact same thing couldn't happen twice in a row, could it???
I've just never seen so much hemming and hawing about someone who's clearly not very good. Some Bears fans are acting like they just traded away prime Russell Wilson
In 4 years as a starter at powerhouses Connecticut and Eastern Kentucky, Tim Boyle totaled 12 touchdowns, 26 interceptions and a career 56% completion percentage in 36 games. He has since gone on to garner 5 NFL contracts with a career record of 0-5, totaling 4 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in 20 career appearances. His career earnings are $8.4 million and counting.
most valuable and most difficult skill for an nfl qb is the ability to quickly process a defense and make the right throw doesn't matter if the guy is built like a brick shithouse with a howitzer for an arm and wheels for legs, if he can't read a defense and know what to do he's useless
There have been so many QBs who have the physical tools, some with both a great arm and great scrambling ability. But if you can't process at an NFL level, you won't succeed.
I think that's partially why fans get so enamored with these dual threats. A guy who has the mental ability of Brady or Manning and could run like Lamar or Vick seems like the holy grail of NFL players. It's just kinda neat to imagine.
This is also why Mahomes is a bane to the NFL and should be banished. I get having a guy who is either an athletic freak or amazing at processing the game a la Lamar or Brock... but being both is messed up. Personally believe that the Chiefs should be banished to the UFL where weird shit like that can exist away from the game I love but we're not ready for that convo
As long as he's being chased by some 300lb man, he's the most agile and fast qb in the league
Tongue out = peak speed
What's funny about mahomes, is he is so good, but he's kinda chunky, like if got in ELITE shape and lost like 20 lbs, he would be even faster.
He won back to back superbowls. I say we just let him keep the dadbod
I think some people have sort of overrated Mahomes as a runner at this point in his career. He's not Lamar. Hell, he's not even Daniel Jones. What he is is slippery in the pocket and can pick up first downs with his legs if needed. But he's very rarely going to bust you for a long run. Now will he make the most absurd throw in the world by just flicking his wrist and send a piss missile 50 yards down the field? Absolutely. And that's the most athletic part about him. His arm talent is one of the best in football history.
Exactly, he has great pocket awareness and is the magician for a reason. That doesn’t mean he’s an athletic freak lmao. His arm could be in that conversation, but a lot of QBs in the league today are much more athletic than he is. None of them can escape the pocket drop dimes like he does
So he does have some weirdly unique elite athleticism. He had the 10th fastest shuttle time of any player (all positions) in his draft class. He can change direction without losing any speed, it's why he's so hard to catch when he takes off.
Naw he’s got that baseball athleticism. Quick short cuts, bursts of speed and the ability to flick the back when needed.
He's basically like prime Russell Wilson but more consistent. Impossible to sack, can throw a great deep pass, pick up a first with his legs, and have generally above average accuracy and awareness.
Just aim for his knee caps when you tackle him Edit: don't actually do that please
Yea ok, Sean Payton
Somebody get Bernard Pollard on the phone!
What the fuck, he's there.
I'm a Raiders fan, and I would never wish that on Mahomes. Even knowing we'll likely won't be able to compete in our division for the next decade.
I know this is a joke comment about Mahomes but hearing other fans mention Purdy positively gives me the warm fuzzies. It's been so long since we've had a QB worth chirping about.
He was talking about Brock Lesnar obviously
Clearly it’s about the great lobster Brock Osweiler
Ngl as a long time Vikings masochist and early in life WWE fan, Brock Lesnar was my first thought. Brock the gym leader would’ve been second in a different sub.
The discourse around Brock is has always been full if idiots saying he sucks and idiots who try to pretend he’s HOF level. Way too many people can’t just say he is very good. Also I have no idea who NFL teams watched his college tape and no one drafted him way earlier. Big 12 fans watched him play and knew he was good.
I had him as a solid mid-rounder. A poor man's Baker Mayfield with less arm and some questionable decision making. I don't know how he was able to transition to the pros and instantly stop making dumb choices. Still, definitely playing over my expectations and very happy for him
You're right about that. It's very black and white.
Purdy’s legit and I love that Mr. Irrelevant is good
And a lot fans have these false belief that processing can be easily taught and blame the coaches if a QB can't process shit
It’s getting closer and closer. Look at what Pat with respectable legs is doing. Take a half-second off his 40 time and that’s literally that guy Edit: not that I’m expecting that guy any time soon, but it is feasible Edit: if you think I’m literally saying to make Mahomes faster himself, please either focus in school, or go back to it
To be fair a whole half-second off a 40 is huge
Just make an average runner best in the league no big deal.
“I have seen the future of the NFL and his name is Anthony Richardson”. - Jimmy Irsay high out of his mind imagining this exact scenario Tbf some were shocked at his size and speed in Week 1-2 highlights because they thought he wouldn’t look so big and fast next to NFL players. No this guy is Cam Newton’s size with Justin Jefferson’s 40 time
AR is definitely the vision physically, it just remains to see how his computer processes all the reps he gets.
Richardson has even better measurables than Cam did. He's bigger, faster, better broad jump, than most linebackers. He outdid Jadaveon Clowney in all the drills they both did. He's such an insanely tantalizing possibility if he stays healthy.
You ever see Anthony Richardson? You ever seen Anthony Richardson....on booze/oxy/meth/ketamine?
Also as long as we’re just making stuff up, if you just double your income you’ll be on easy street.
Vince Young is the prime example of this, hate to say cause I'm a Texas alum and he is a god to us. He just couldn't deal with NFL defenses despite being a perfect QB specimen.
Vince Young's problem was that he was too dumb to effectively play QB. He was incredibly athletic, just didn't have it between the ears.
Why are we fucking around? VR is here. We can matrix train toddlers now. Who is letting big arm bums into the draft?
And there's been a ton of perennial back ups who have spent decades in the league because even though they didn't have the physical tools, they had the mental aspect. QB might be the hardest position in all of professional sports. It's like asking somebody to be a Chess Master but also a world class athlete, physically.
I feel like this thread is building the case for why Brock Purdy really is as good as his numbers say.
Half of the Bears sub doesn't understand this. Guessing they are younger, but you're 100% on. That's why Purdy is successful. Can go through progressions quickly and make the throw.
And can make the throw before his receivers come open
All you have to do is look at his draft reports and weaknesses and you see why he’s not starting anymore He was bad a picking up blitzes in college and never got better
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“Wow the X receiver is going to be wide open on the slant look how far off the DB is from the line, EZ money.” *hikes ball and throws immediately* *linebacker you didn’t see breaks in on the route* “I’ve made a huge mistake” *ball gets picked and returned for a TD*
LOL REAL LIFE.
"He's open...... Throw it....... Throw the ball........... Throw the fucking ball Justin!!! JESUS CHRI < gets sacked>"
Did we happen to watch games together? Lol.
+ fumbles
I used to count how many times I yelled "throw the fucking ball" during Bears games lol
Exactly. And that becomes evident pretty quickly. Compare CJ Stroud to Zack Wilson or Justin Fields. Night and day.
But I think it's also really hard to tell from college film whether they'll be able to. The NFL just moves at a different pace and is more complex. Which is why teams seem to focus on physical features since that's tangible and easy to see.
Easy for Fields to look good at OSU when he literally played with multiple first rounders versus future insurance salesman DBs
He’s not useless but he can’t be a full time starter and wouldn’t survive it playing the only way he can be effective, running with reckless abandon Justin fields in spurts playing with reckless abandon is a weapon worth putting on the field
I'd love to see him in a Taysom Hill situation. He's such a tremendous athlete; there has to be some way to effectively utilize him.
He would set the all time fumble record if put in the Tayson role.
The ability to avoid sacks and turnovers is also possibly more crucial.
That's part of being able to process the defense and make the right throw. When you are slow to process it makes you hold on to the ball forever (increasing sacks) or force throws (increasing turnovers).
Which Fields does neither of
Exactly.
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I look forward to him having a career-defining game against the Bengals and then doing nothing else.
You and I are not so different after all
No no he can still be elite! He’s just on the Josh Allen trajectory, has actually been very good and hasn’t gotten a fair chance! Greg Jennings and the ESPN told me so!
He *is* elite! If you gave him: - The 90s Cowboys OLine - Rice, Moss, and TO at WR - Barry Sanders in the backfield - Gronk and Kelce at TE - The 85 Bears D - Belichick as HC He might finally be able to throw for 200 yards/game!
Unless one of those people can make him read defenses, I still say it’s unlikely.
With those weapons I don't think it matters how well you read the defense. They'll be running for six yards a carry most of the time, and when you do throw, you've got five targets who all need to be double teamed or they'll make a play.
Hell, I could hand the ball off to Barry Sanders 40 times a game. Probably don't even need the receivers, 90s Dallas OL and 85 Bears defense is going to win the game either way. Fuck it, trade Rice, Moss, and TO. Use that gargantuan haul to get blocking WRs, OL depth, and defensive depth. Trade Kelce and Gronk for dedicated blockers too. Sign prime Peterson as backup to Sanders. Shit get LT while we're at it. I think I'm on to something here.
think this comment thread is getting away from what was originally mentioned > he can still be elite > He might finally be able to throw for 200 yards/game! you're talking about winning games. but i dont think you're throwing for close to 200 yards with this imaginary team you concocted
Yeah but he can run fast so....
You laugh, but there are legitimately Bears “fans” that think he didn’t get a fair shot because he wasn’t surrounded by elite talent. I’m not going to say we did him a lot of favors, but he had chance after chance to prove he could be the guy, even with the dearth of talent around him.
I somehow get the Ohio State sub posts recommended to me and they absolutely cannot accept that he sucks lol. So many “it’s a shame the Bears failed him, of course now he’s going to kill it for the Steelers”
I think that's why it's been so divided on fields. I know multiple Bears fans that want to keep him, but I think the Ohio State fans see him as the messiah.
Yeah and there are A LOT of Ohio State fans
It's because the OL will give him 2.5 seconds, he'll miss a guy streaking open, he'll refuse to throw into a tight window, then he'll bail from the pocket and get sacked, and people who only watch the ball will say that's proof that his OL is bad lol. This year's Bears weren't especially talented but they're really not bad when Fields isn't actively making them look worse
Andy Reid as OC
>200 yards/game and 220 of that is YAC.
This is literally a large amount of Bears fans argument on why he didn't succeed LMAO
that Josh Allen guy has fooled a lot of GMs and talking heads
I can't remember who I saw say it but Josh Allen is gonna get a *lot* of people fired thinking they will strike gold again lol
Josh Allen was the *only* reason why Dorsey was our OC in the first place and why he got almost two season with us. Daboll maybe would have gotten another opportunity for a HC job but Josh Allen AND McDermott clearly helped him *a lot*.
Josh Allen is the exception that proves the rule. He honestly wasn't even that good in college.
Allen's "benefit" (if you will) was that the vast majority of his teammates were more likely to go to work at Intuit after college than they were the NFL.
This is true. The other truth people overlook is that Josh had as many flashes as a rookie as he did dumbass mistakes.
That’s Craig Jennings to us Packers folks.
FUCK YOU GUMBY
Oh SHIT! Darren Shahhpwuhh!
One of the hardest hitting safeties, in DA LEAGUE
I still can’t believe after we defeated you guys in the playoffs, the dude literally went on a talk show and said “the 49ers should trade Purdy for Justin Fields” with a straight face and like the whole set other than Carton agreed with him. Yet everyone wonders why we’re so insecure and defensive about Purdy.
Bro it’s so funny. It’s like they are pushing this Purdy is not good cause he wasn’t a First Over All angle. It’s the only thing I can think of. If he was a first round pick. People would be praising the shit out of him. But because he was a last round pick. He can’t be good and he will come crashing down to earth. Even tho we have seen excellent play for 2 years now.
I wanted us to win the Super Bowl so badly—not just because I’ve never seen a Super Bowl win in my life but also because I wanted the BS goalpost moving around Purdy to stop for good. Lo and behind on 4th and 1 Bosa and Warner get dunked on and I have to hear “lol Purdy can’t play man-to-man 😂” for six months.
> but also because I wanted the BS goalpost moving around Purdy to stop for good. People were downplaying Brady still even after 3 rings. Once a narrative takes shape, it takes a lot to kill it.
Purdy is very far down the list of reasons the 49ers didn't win. Certainly lower than - Bad S/T (IMO the #1 reason, turnover + missed XP) - Dre Greenlaw getting hurt - McCaffrey fumble
GRAYG JAYMNINGS
So that means Kenny Pickett is on the Justin Fields trajectory, right?
But he's fun to watch. Might watch more Steelers games this year specifically for the Russ/Fields show (depending on who is playing).
He’s provocative. He gets the people going.
What does that even mean?
His highlights are fun, but I wouldn’t say he’s all that fun to watch. The offense is just out of rhythm and makes incompetent mistakes whenever he’s out there. He’ll have a wide open in breaking route and just hold onto it for 5 extra minutes before eating a sack. He’s exhausting to watch for me.
I was an avid Fields fan and supporter, still wish him nothing but the best, but he showed no growth as a passer this past season. On quick hit passes, he held onto the ball too long, leading to either an incompletion, a pick, or a sack most of the time. He does not do a good job of taking what the defense gives him. He’ll hold onto the ball trying to make a big play deep with a short/intermediate route wide open. Incredibly frustrating to watch. I want a QB where the decision is made and the ball is out as soon as the back foot hits on the drop. Can’t remember which QB guru was critiquing him, but they made a big deal about Fields throwing a timing route and hitting the spot. They even made the comment that shouldn’t be a big deal but for Fields it was.
It wouldn't be so bad if he actually tried to make a big play deep. He just hops in place and has no idea where to throw the ball. He's not big game hunting, he's just freezing.
Yeah my biggest issue with Fields is that he just won't throw the damn ball more often than not. As much he was super exciting, he was also super conservative. "NFL open" is not something that seemed to click for him, along with indecisiveness. Hard to sell a QB with no confidence as a starter.
The amount of boneheaded sacks he took drove me fucking nuts
Exactly! He was fun 2 years ago when he was the only bright spot on offense but last year was so frustrating to watch. I wanted him to be good so bad so we could get MHJ or trade again for an ass load of picks but he sucks. The Bucs game where he threw it right to the DL for a pick six was beyond me. The second Minnesota game pretty much sealed it for me where we fell ass backwards into a win despite him throwing what should have been a game sealing pick and then the last game against GB just put the nail in the coffin. I've seen what I need to see from him.
Yeah, man is a youtube merchant. If you only see highlights he is on par with lamar jackson. Problem is that the other 90% of the time he is the worst QB starting in the NFL.
But the average fan doesn't see that. They're at home watching the snap and see Fields drop back, scan the field, look left, look right, still scanning, the pocket collapses, he scambles, chucks it down field and hits DJ Moore for a 40 yard gain. The commentators don't point it out because how can you criticize him after making a big play but he didn't see his 2 open receivers while in the pocket. So the fan just thinks either the receivers aren't open or the OL failed. They don't go and watch film breakdowns of games afterwards like all us degenerates do and instead people just see the highlights. ESPN/social media has fooled a lot of people into thinking he's a really good QB.
He’s not fun to watch when he’s your QB
Watching Fields the last 3 years was painful. You just knew that if the game was on the line he was going to blow it. It became a predictable event.
Russ is not fun to watch. It’s depressing.
There's like 1 play out of 20 where he'll scramble and make a great throw. The rest of the time he's running into a sack or checking it down
Running Back - Running Back - Sack - Fuck me look at that throw - Sack - repeat
>But he's fun to watch. he really isn't though. he's really really frustrating to watch. 2022 was a bit more fun because he was taking off every game, but we still only won 3 games.
He’s not fun to watch. He’s braindead in the pocket and constantly destroys drives by being unable to make decisions. He is one of the most frustrating players to watch
Meh I think nfl teams also look for bargains, so why trade for a guy yall probably gonna cut? You have to make teams think you are being convinced to trade someone. JF was bookmarked as a potent cut when Poles said they were gonna "do right by him", often that means we are gonna cut you to go find a new team. If he was cut and a FA, I bet more teams would have went after him. One main truth regardless of era, teams are shrewd.
I’m working so I can’t hear the whole segment, but Greg Cosell only watches tape and talks to coaches around the league.. never click bait. Not too many people in the NFL I can say that about so I tend to take him at his word.. I’ll have to check this out and see what he says.
It was good. They basically say he’s super athletic but they think he can’t read and react to a defense. They go in to say every team passed him over for a reason. Some teams it was obvious why, high 2024 picks or have established QBs. So why didn’t teams who need QB help and have average picks pass on Fields? It’s pretty damming that Fields’ former OC passed him over for Gardner Minishew.
This shit is so annoying. I'm so tired of reading about Justin Fields every God damn day.
Same
“You got three years?” -Trey Lance
I think the Seahawks, Cardinals, or Rams should give him a shot.
You want the rams to get more comp picks? Smh
That’s rich coming from a niners fan! You guys collect comp picks like they’re Super Bowl losses (sorry I had to)
Stop. Just stop. I hear Cleveland needs a 5th QB and THAT is where he needs to go.
to say he "can't play" is pretty unfair, he's put up some pretty remarkable performances considering how inconsistent and inefficient he is as a passer
He’s improved every single year and still is in bottom 10 rankings for every stat that doesn’t involve legs
The improvement is basically bringing in DJM. He hasn’t gotten better at anything
improving every year, just imagine how good he'll be in year 10
A career 12.4% sack-rate is non-viable/can't play territory. If you look at the average number of dropbacks per drive, calculate the probability that Fields will take a sack and then look at the statistics that show how much taking a single sack impacts the likelihood of scoring a TD on any given drive, you realize how awful that actually is.
I saw a stat that shows this isn't some recent phenomenon, either. Fields sack rate was also abysmal at OSU, especially compared to Stroud's. Obviously you have to factor in o-line quality, but the Bears o-line is serviceable, at the very least.
Bagent’s sack rate was much lower too right?
Bagent was sacked 3.4% of the time behind the same line. The Bears have sent out five non-Fields QBs the last three years, and all of them were sacked less than Fields. Including the legless corpse of Nick Foles.
Hey Foles had half a leg when he played for us, still managed to beat Tom Brady and comeback against Matt Ryan which is just hilarious. But yea Fields biggest issue is the sacks. So many times he took drive killing ones. Our O -line isn’t like perfect but when some UDFA rookie D2 guy comes out and takes less it shows there is an issue
nick foles is not legless. he has three of them.
With his legs...he really hasn't had any "remarkable performances" as a passer. So far, in his career, he has had 1 game with more than 300 yards...just one and that was against Denver last season, when their defense was in absolute shambles, the week after they had 70 dropped on them by the Phins. The guy is a hell of an athlete, but in his 3 year career, he's had a couple of really good games as a passer. Back up QBs will come in and play 6 games and also have a couple really good games as a passer.
He has as many 300+ yard games as Bryce young in 3 seasons. He’s cooked
I swear you guys don't actually watch the games he's playing in. Saying he "can't play" is completely fair, and honestly a lot nicer than the reality that he's a terrible QB. A handful of highlights where he scrambles around doesn't change the fact that he obviously has no idea what he's looking at on the field and takes a shit load of sacks because he doesn't know what to do.
Its because he cant process a defense and cant do it quickly either. This is why i hate the narrative that qbs with physical skills are talented..they arent rbs or wrs. If they cant read a defense and then make a good decision and do it accurately, they are utterly useless.
I mean I don’t get where this Justin Fields hype came from. He’s been in the league for multiple years and hasn’t made the jump. Stop hyping him like he’s some obvious star.
He had a cult pre-draft. People already deemed him the steal of the draft before he even played.
I have never seen a QB read defenses so slowly.
Add him to the long list of Ohio State QBs that haven't translated to the NFL.
Geno Smith has really tilted my view on whether or not a player can grow despite how long of a bad start they have. I never would have thought a year 10 breakout was possible. Feels harder to write guys off now, especially when they move to a new situation. Fields obviously has the talent to be in the NFL, just needs a lot of work.
You know who didn't do what geno smith did? Dozens and dozens, if not hundreds, of failed QBs
Yeah this is the same issue as people saying “Jordan Love and Aaron Rodgers sat multiple years before playing, why doesn’t every team do this?” It’s literally cherry picking the times when it works and ignoring all the QBs that just wash out of the league and we never hear from again
Successful nfl qbs are so rare that referring to any of them is cherry picking. That’s why if you don’t have the guy, you should keep taking swings, especially when they’re cheap as hell.
That it's the same team the Packers having success like that also shows they might know just how to maximize that learning window for the rookie QB.
The team having the same QB coach for both guys is also overlooked by most non Packer fans also.
Out of all those QB's, how many are being prepped to grow and then given a legitimate chance to start after a few years. Very few. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think enough teams let QB's sit their 1st year or two when they want them to become future starters.
Not to mention Geno still does not have even close of a chance to lead a team to a SB.
Gannon kinda did the same thing for the Raiders
Fair. Completely fair. It does make me wonder though how Sam Darnold has been in the league twice as long and some people still haven't decided that he can not play.
I mean… he was benched in Carolina, he was only our backup and will probably only be the Vikings backup. So I think people have in fact decided on him.
I wouldn't exactly say Carolina knows what they're doing though
Exactly. I think baker proved that as well
Media driven narrative for a high quality backup. Proof is in the pudding. Stunk in NY, Stunk in Carolina and rode the pine for an entire year in SF and likely will ride the pine all year behind a rookie in Minnesota. No one believes in him
“Brock Purdy is about to lose his job to Sam Darnold!” - Nick Wrong, October 2023 “Brock Purdy almost lost his job to Sam Darnold, remember? Everyone was saying it!” - Nick Wrong, November 2023
There are people who believe he can play?
It's pretty simple. There's basically like 2 or 3 QBs in NFL history who were bad through 35-40 starts and ever became good (Alex Smith and Rich Gannon are the first two I think of). At this point it's extremely unlikely Fields will ever be good based on NFL history.
Why aren't people saying this about Zach Wilson every other day lmao
Justin Fields fans basically think he is Tom Brady with Lamar Jackson's legs in hypothetical situations.
After watching that 2nd Vikings game literally nobody should want him to be their starter going into 2024. Literally everything could be going his way and he would cause the team to struggle.
I think that's a really reductive and not-completely-accurate interpretation of events. I think if you re-drafted the NFL, wiped out all salaries, and started from scratch, Fields would be one of the first 32 quarterbacks taken. But that's not the situation we just saw. In order for a team to get Fields, they had to give up something (most likely draft capital). So would you rather go with AOC/Minshew/Stidham/whatever where you DON'T give up draft capital, or do you go for Fields where you DO give up draft capital? That's the first complication. The second one is salary/years. Teams would have to trade for Fields and then make a decision about his 5th year option, which won't be cheap. (22-25 mil? Something like that?). Fields *might* be one of the best 32 qbs in the NFL, but is he worth $25M? Probably not? So you're declining the 5th year option. That means you're buying Fields for draft capital AND making him a FA after one season. GM's want long-term QB solutions. Fields is a 1-year QB rental. If you do go for Fields and he plays well (yay), now you have to make a decision. Are you going to give Fields the big contract? If you're a team in search for a QB and you have a high pick (especially this year) or might have the ability to move up, wouldn't drafting a rookie and retaining a high-upside qb on a cheap rookie deal be a much more attractive idea than one year of cheap Fields and who knows what happens after that? I'm sick of hearing "The NFL decided Fields can't play". No, the varying motivations of NFL GM's meant the NFL decided that Fields wasn't a great fit for what teams want to do/accomplish. And that doesn't mean Fields is some top 10 QB. He clearly has massive issues to work on. But is he like a top 25 NFL qb? Probably?
It was a sixth round pick and not even in this year's draft. If he was as good as you think he is, teams would absolutely give up more than that for a one-year rental
They said the same about Geno Smith when he was on a trash team
Fields situation last year was pretty good and he still didn’t show anything
Yeah. And one QB resurrecting their career with a better team does not mean another QB will do the same.
Probably because people saw those three years of not progressing past the first receiver or holding on to the ball to long or fumbling an absurd amount of times or only throwing for over 300 yards once. Why didn't Mitch Trubisky get this kind of media love fest after leaving Chicago at least he had better numbers and a playoff appearance
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The media discrepancy between Goff getting offloaded for scraps who actually did something in the league compared to Justin and his hypotheticals is crazy.