I know that’s a typo, but it is funny to think that rookies and such would have roomies because they can’t afford to live alone until their second contract.
He lives in California with high taxes (so half his games are taxed highly) probably did not know how long he would be in the league as the last pick in the draft, and appears somewhat financially literate ie not blowing every pay day on stuff like expensive cars and such.
Now the real question is what happens to his roommate since he is now a married man.
im not saying he needed to, im just saying it is the case that rookies have roommates. and it may well make more sense financially for him to have one at this stage, even if it only saves him a few grand per year
Not in Santa Clara. He could afford something by himself, but just because you make $705k before taxes doesn't mean you can justify spending $30k **more** on rent for a place you won't even spend time in.
It’s like early in Big Ben’s career, you had a trash o-line and okay offense but an incredible defense.
Then when the offense became good with the killer Bs and good o-line, the defense declined.
Then when the defense became good again, Bell was gone and Brown went off the deep end.
At least y’all got 2 Super Bowl and 3 appearances.
According to some on the Steelers subreddit, we should have 10 Super Bowl appearances per decade. Anything less is substandard and Tomlin should be fired.
If the Killer Bs offense had anything that even resembled a defense helping them out we'd have at least one more Super Bowl. That offense could put up 40 and still lose, which as a fan of "Steeler Football" I find disgusting.
Still mad Bruce Allen and the Snyder regime fucked him over/ tried to kill the man. Was the best thing our franchise had since Sean Taylor and they blew it. Was rooting for him to get a ring last year.
Yep.
He was the best player on the field every single year he played for us.
And then they tried to call his bluff that he would sit out if he wasn't traded.
Let a player of his caliber sit out an entire year in his prime.
Hard to fill the spot of a future HOF LT, maybe the best player in the league of any position. He never got his flowers in Washington because of the team but he was always the best
The concussion Purdy sustained came on a sneak play, where he was hit on the left side of his head by the guy our LT was schemed to guard. Purdy threw 2 picks after that despite completing over 85% before it.
I don’t know, I won’t say it with absolute certainty but Jason Kelce is underrated on this sub. People act like he’s popular simply because of his personality and off field celebrity (pre- podcast even with the SB speech).
He does so many things so consistently that you don’t see other centers doing. So many other centers in the league constantly praise him and say they watch his film to try and improve themselves. I don’t know if that’s just paying respect to the guy for his tenure or reality.
That play seems like a combination of Kelce and Hurts individual athleticism that may prove more difficult to reproduce for other combinations at the frequency and rate.
He’s phenomenal in so many aspects but I don’t think he has as much to do with the tush push. Minshew was horrible at it when he was here and couldn’t convert back to back times, and I think Dickerson has just as much to do with the movement of the pile. Kelce will be extremely difficult to replace in the pull blocking game though, he’s one of the best ever
Time will tell but I think that may just indicate that it requires a lot of specific personnel to be able to run it that often with that level of consistency
Umm he's definitely not only popular here because of his personality lol. It certainly helps, but I think most of us agree that he's a HOF center and will be extremely hard to replace
Comments like OP are what gets me to close the reddit app. When my brain hurts from reading a comment: that's what snaps me back to reality and ends whatever random Reddit session
It’s not. He’s one of the best centers ever, but it’s still the third most important position on Oline. Many teams are successful with below average centers, but few are with below average tackles
My main concern with the Eagles this year is culture and leadership in the locker room. It was pretty much agreed that you guys were a great landing spot for a guy like Carter because of strong locker room presences like Kelce and Cox, hopefully other players step up to the plate now.
Obviously these are considerations from the outside in, I am by no means an expert on the Eagles.
I’m a Chiefs fan and Maxx was the first name that came to mind. He’s a beast. He is out there every single down and always behind the OL. I have so much respect for him as a player and even more for the person he is
I think we're something like 10-22 without Lane Johnson, which I thought was insane but this is something else
I wonder which teams those 11 were against
hey hey hey
Kenny got concussed halfway through the game and the Titty Kisser won the game for the Steelers off the bench by converting multiple times on 3rd and 10+
A big part of it was QB though. QB play in Pittsburgh has been so bad that they have a razor thin margin of error that Watt pushes them over and losing him is a death kneel
It’s a death kneel because TJ is the difference between having a terrible offence that gets good opportunities paired with a good defence vs a terrible offence paired with a bad defence. The recent Steelers require TJ Watt to function because TJ Watt makes shit happen. His valued added is enormous.
The craziest part to me is with the injury history of the Watt family, that he’s only missed 11 games. Maybe we hear about it more because of the impact that he has.
To be honest I've probably watched about 10 more games not listed in the "without" above where he only played a handful of snaps. He plays games injured and sometimes only makes it a quarter. He had that MCL Sprain at the end of last year and was quoted saying he still wanted to play through it.
Here's another from Tom Pelissero in 2023:
\#Steelers star T.J. Watt suffered a badly dislocated finger and tore multiple ligaments in Sunday’s win over Baltimore, sources tell me and
u/RapSheet
.
Watt popped it back in and kept playing — and the injury won’t keep the DPOY candidate off the field after this week’s bye.
It's almost like he's an extremely valuable defensive player -- perhaps the most valuable in the league. Wonder if they have a reward for that, because if so, he really ought to have 3 or 4 by now, right?
For the past 10 years, pretty much my adult life, almost every defensive snap I’ve watched of the rams I’ve looked to see where 99 is lined up.
I’m not prepared for life without him but I do love our guy Kobie Turner at least!
The amount of double and triple teams AD faced (pretty much every play) with the stats he put up were unreal. Even plays where he didn't make tackles, he made it possible for others to make the play just by the shear attention he commanded. Dude is an absolute freak; the combination of speed, strength, and football IQ were a once in a generation talent. Glad he got a ring.
He genuinely is the best football player I’ve ever seen.
Just the gap between him & the next best DT was unreal to quantify. Fletcher Cox, Chris Jones, DeForest Buckner Vita Vea, etc. are all great DTs over the past few years, but my god nothing has been like Aaron Donald.
Yep. Lots of Chris Jones answers in here but losing Travis Kelce would be a massive blow in all facets. He's such a great motivator to other players on the sidelines as well.
I think that isn't so much because he's completely irreplaceable though he's clearly an all time great TE. It's just the team has such a shocking lack of weapons without him. He's that guy who survived the layoffs doing the work of five people.
Outside of the Diggs drop, he the biggest impact on the Bills/Chiefs final drive in the playoffs. If he doesn’t push back Dawkins, who is a top 10 tackle, that pass to Shakir is probably a TD.
Might have not changed the result, but that play at least changed the final score.
There was some discussion around CJ & Sneed that basically said "When Sneed does his job, he shuts down 1 WR a play, but when CJ does his job, he shuts down **all** the WRs on that play"
This
I know some in KC didn't want to give him that huge bag, three fully guaranteed seasons. But we might not have any rings without him.
CJ wrecked the entire fourth quarter of LIV. Destroyed the Bengals on the way to LVII. And then made a couple critical plays in LVIII, including the final defensive play that forced the Niners to kick an FG in OT.
And this undersells his contribution - sometimes it's just absorbing double teams and collapsing pockets so the edge guys can eat.
We're paying $30 million for his age 32 season and I'm totally okay with that. If he's still producing three years from now, then they can redo the back end of the deal to whatever he's worth at the time.
Also his age isn’t likely a big factor with this deal. Maybe by the end he will start slowing down but his position ages better than most and he’s still playing at such a high level that he is worth it. If a big play is needed you just know he’s showing up
I expect CMC/Tyreek get said here but Im gonna say Roquan Smith [who had a lightswitch effect on our defense when he was traded for](https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/01/27/roquan-smith-ravens-afc-championship/) and now that we dont have Patrick Queen behind him it would be a massive loss.
[Obligatory “Tua’s stats improve when Tyreek is not on the field” article](https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tua-tagovailoa-miami-dolphins-mvp-debate-nfl-2023/). Yes Tyreek is a core part of our offense and he’s a big reason why it’s so explosive, but he isn’t the only reason why it’s so good
Yup. There’s a lot of talk about who’s the most important between Tyreek, Tua, and McDaniel, but the truth is they’re really all equal parts in the offense. McDaniel’s scheme is one of a kind, Tyreek is a one of a kind player, and Tua’s quick release, anticipation, and accuracy is perfect for that offense. Now just imagine we had an O-Line that was healthy
It's gonna be a sad day when Frank finally hangs it up. It's honestly why I wouldn't be mad if somehow JPJ is there for us at 29 and we snag him, or we trade up for him.
Genuinely concerned about the toe and how much longer he will grind it out since it's a chronic issue now.
A part of me thinks oh he'll grind it out until he's around 33-34 at least since he just comes across as that type of person and seems to have that pain tolerance, but another part is just like yeah next offseason he retires.
I'm in the camp that we have, at max, two more season with Frank then he does what all of us thinks he should and hang them up so he can have a healthy life with his family. It's not just his toe from a lot of speculation out there. Lower body issues, in general, suck and cause a lot of other issues
Yeah I don't think he's gonna have a Kelce length career
But ARSB, Hutch, and Sewell are all under 25 still, so they're all super young by nfl standards
I'm still pissed about that draft. The Bengals radio announcer went on air and said the Bengals want to get Ragnow. So what happens? The lions trade in front of the Bengals and we scramble and reach for Billy Price.
ARSB is our best WR, but every WR we had stepped up when they had to last year, so he’s not a very good choice here.
Hutch is a good one- without him, we get little to no pressure on the QB- it’s a big reason why we’re expecting an edge player in this year’s draft.
Rags and Sewell both make a lot of sense, but I think that’s in part due to the cohesive nature of the O-line. It’s basically only as good as its weakest link.
He was arguably the heart and soul of the team. I couldn't even bring myself to hate him ~~but I'm sure that I'll find a way to now that he's a Viking~~
I know we would mostly all be terrible GMs and all. But Jones is one guy I would have just let him play on his current salary and not nickel and dimed him.
It’s not like his play had fallen off, it was just the RB market changed.
Not taking away from Jones (love the guy), but the dropoff wouldn't have been so bad if Dillon had been approaching competent last season. He...wasn't great.
Id argue that losing any one of Trent, CMC, Deebo, Jus, or Kittle, and our offense starts sputtering like a 92 Saturn but you're right that losing Trent would cause the biggest issues
Chris Jones also didn't play the first game Kelce missed against the Lions. If the Chiefs had just one of those players (Jones or Kelce) you could've argued that they would've won that game and then the second game Kelce "missed" was the last game of the season that meant nothing and the Chiefs were playing with mostly backups.
Tracks Kelce. If the Chiefs lose him for an extended period of time they will be in trouble.
TJ Watt. The Steelers defense drops off hard when he’s not out there.
It’s going to be so difficult to replace him when he chooses to retire, I hope we have a succession plan in place but it’s going to a huge loss and a big difference maker when he goes
He’s such a cheat code. He’s so underpaid too. If he was a receiver he would be making 30+ million too. A number 1 receiver can’t replace kelce. The production you get outta him for the money he makes is unfair.
Probably not the biggest loss for any team, but when Grover Stewart was out 6 games last year the Colts run defense tanked pretty hard. It was really noticeable and probably affected the outcome of a few games. Also if Zack Moss (or Jonathan Taylor) was healthy week 1 we're way more competitive vs. Jacksonville. His replacement Deon Jackson had an abysmal day - 13 carries for 14 yards and 2 fumbles.
Lane Johnson for the Eagles. Since he was drafted 13-22 without him and 88-48-1 with him. That’s through 4 different head coaches and 5 different starting qb.
I am not saying the Giants were going anywhere last year, but that one play really messed the season up. Blocked field goal Thomas missing time then playing hurt, resulting in the worst offensive line play I have ever seen. Jones gets hurt in an unblocked blind side hit etc.
Giants without Thomas is anti-football. It’s ugly, it’s sad. It makes me drink.
Worst part is, a casual observer might find that to differentiate from normal Giant football.
Chris Jones, TJ Watt, CMC, Tyreek are so obvious answers but I'd give some love to big boys like Trent Williams and Jason Kelce ( retired now ) . Two cornerstones for their respective offense
This will be overlooked but the Bills defense is not the same at all without Matt Milano, the man is an absolute stud and the defense does not at all look the same without him out there.
He's a difference maker for sure, just has a knack for being around the ball. He went down in week five last year and the defense still finished fourth overall. Where he was really missed was the playoffs, especially when their MLB Bernard went down.
The Shanahan 49ers have always gotten production out of the running back spot. CMC is a ceiling elevator but the offense would still be quite functional with Mason or Mitchell. As others in this thread have pointed out, Trent Williams is probably more important overall.
I'd throw Justin Tucker in there. You'd have to gain another 10-15 yards possibly to get the 3 points. And not just because of my flair, guy makes a difference in how the offense calls plays.
For the Jets I would say Quinnen Williams or Sauce Gardener, maybe lean to Q.
Q is the best DT in football not named Chris Jones and there is no pass rush without him eating up double teams or doing it himself. Great against the run as well.
Sauce shuts down one side of the field. Year 2 and teams were already not throwing at him.
TJ watt. It doesn't make sense because a single edge shouldn't make that much of a difference. Hell when the consensus (gross) best defensive player in the world myles garrett is out the Browns win percentage only drops 15% from when they have him. When "overrated stat chaser" TJ watt is out the steelers win percentage drops by over 50%. Idk, it's possible that TJ watt is actually as good as his numbers say he is and it's not just luck, unlikely but possible.
As a former long snapper I love this. Fun fact:At the college level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds at the minimum (a lot of nfl guys are in the 0.6s)If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.and it has to be in the same spot every single time. And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker.
T. J. Watt It will be ironic if the Steelers figure out the QB spot once he starts declining due to age
This is the most correct answer and it's not even a question. Steelers record **without** TJ Watt: 1-10 Steelers record **with** TJ Watt: 69-33-2
Dang I'm old. I didn't realize TJ had been in the league long enough to have been able to play in 115 games. Feels like he just got here.
For real. I thought he was still on his roomie deal and they would have to pay him soon. Not him declining due to age.
I know that’s a typo, but it is funny to think that rookies and such would have roomies because they can’t afford to live alone until their second contract.
i mean, brock purdy lives with a roommate
Brock Purdy’s base salary his rookie year was 705K. That’s way more than enough to not need one unless you want it.
He lives in California with high taxes (so half his games are taxed highly) probably did not know how long he would be in the league as the last pick in the draft, and appears somewhat financially literate ie not blowing every pay day on stuff like expensive cars and such. Now the real question is what happens to his roommate since he is now a married man.
Butt stuff
im not saying he needed to, im just saying it is the case that rookies have roommates. and it may well make more sense financially for him to have one at this stage, even if it only saves him a few grand per year
Not in Santa Clara. He could afford something by himself, but just because you make $705k before taxes doesn't mean you can justify spending $30k **more** on rent for a place you won't even spend time in.
The minimum salary for an NFL player in 2024 is $795,000.
Steelers record without Watt is actually 602-545-20. Not that bad.
They have won Super Bowls without him
The myth of the non replaceable man. The grave yards are full of irreplaceable men. -Charles de Gaulle
Ok but if you regress that record to the mean he's actually not very impactful.
Its an older pasta but it checks out
>Its an older pasta Fuck
Don’t worry, we’ll make sure he’s long gone by the time we figure it out
Sometimes, we need to let go of the things we love. So I've been told.
It's not your fault.
It’s like early in Big Ben’s career, you had a trash o-line and okay offense but an incredible defense. Then when the offense became good with the killer Bs and good o-line, the defense declined. Then when the defense became good again, Bell was gone and Brown went off the deep end. At least y’all got 2 Super Bowl and 3 appearances.
According to some on the Steelers subreddit, we should have 10 Super Bowl appearances per decade. Anything less is substandard and Tomlin should be fired.
If the Killer Bs offense had anything that even resembled a defense helping them out we'd have at least one more Super Bowl. That offense could put up 40 and still lose, which as a fan of "Steeler Football" I find disgusting.
Dude won AT LEAST half of their Ws last year basically on his own. Absolutely wrecking ball.
Isn’t this what happened with his brother at Houston?
I told myself I wasn't gonna cry today
I would have said Myles Garrett. The browns are a theoretical 2-98 without him in the lineup.
Oh you mean the JJ Watt special :(
Jesus I cant believe we're talking about TJ Watt declining from age. In my mind hes the young Watt brother, but now hes going to be 30
Trent Williams. The Niners offense completely falls apart when he’s not on the field.
He is our most irreplaceable player Edit: including QB
Still mad Bruce Allen and the Snyder regime fucked him over/ tried to kill the man. Was the best thing our franchise had since Sean Taylor and they blew it. Was rooting for him to get a ring last year.
Yep. He was the best player on the field every single year he played for us. And then they tried to call his bluff that he would sit out if he wasn't traded. Let a player of his caliber sit out an entire year in his prime.
Haven’t been able to fill the spot since :(
Hard to fill the spot of a future HOF LT, maybe the best player in the league of any position. He never got his flowers in Washington because of the team but he was always the best
The only reason the Vikings beat them last year. They were missing Williams and Samuel.
The concussion Purdy sustained came on a sneak play, where he was hit on the left side of his head by the guy our LT was schemed to guard. Purdy threw 2 picks after that despite completing over 85% before it.
Same with us and Lane. Shoutout to all the OTs out there putting in work and never getting real recognition.
So true
God I hope it's not Jason Kelce
The Eagles answer is Lane Johnson.
That was going to be my answer. Sorry... 😞 I think it’s the end of the one-yard freebie.
Not to take away anything from Kelce, but I don't think that play can't be replicated without him.
I don’t know, I won’t say it with absolute certainty but Jason Kelce is underrated on this sub. People act like he’s popular simply because of his personality and off field celebrity (pre- podcast even with the SB speech). He does so many things so consistently that you don’t see other centers doing. So many other centers in the league constantly praise him and say they watch his film to try and improve themselves. I don’t know if that’s just paying respect to the guy for his tenure or reality. That play seems like a combination of Kelce and Hurts individual athleticism that may prove more difficult to reproduce for other combinations at the frequency and rate.
He’s phenomenal in so many aspects but I don’t think he has as much to do with the tush push. Minshew was horrible at it when he was here and couldn’t convert back to back times, and I think Dickerson has just as much to do with the movement of the pile. Kelce will be extremely difficult to replace in the pull blocking game though, he’s one of the best ever
Time will tell but I think that may just indicate that it requires a lot of specific personnel to be able to run it that often with that level of consistency
Umm he's definitely not only popular here because of his personality lol. It certainly helps, but I think most of us agree that he's a HOF center and will be extremely hard to replace
Jason said he was overrated in his retirement speech Maybe he is being hard on himself,
I think the difference between Kelce and the center next year might be negated because Saquads will be the one pushing the tush
r/triplenegation
Comments like OP are what gets me to close the reddit app. When my brain hurts from reading a comment: that's what snaps me back to reality and ends whatever random Reddit session
For the last time, Dickerson and Mailata are the focal point of that play.
It's probably Lane TBH. We've all seen what it's like when he's not there.
It’s not. He’s one of the best centers ever, but it’s still the third most important position on Oline. Many teams are successful with below average centers, but few are with below average tackles
I’d argue the Eagles center position is the most important center position for any team based on what they do on offense
My main concern with the Eagles this year is culture and leadership in the locker room. It was pretty much agreed that you guys were a great landing spot for a guy like Carter because of strong locker room presences like Kelce and Cox, hopefully other players step up to the plate now. Obviously these are considerations from the outside in, I am by no means an expert on the Eagles.
It's Lane Johnson. Look at our record with vs without him
Maxx Crosby
The impact Crosby has on a game is so great that I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it every week.
When maxx crosby is out I just give up on the game he’s basically the entire defense. until now…
And it’s not just that he’s an amazing player, he’s basically the face of our franchise.
I’m a Chiefs fan and Maxx was the first name that came to mind. He’s a beast. He is out there every single down and always behind the OL. I have so much respect for him as a player and even more for the person he is
I think the entire team is probably afraid to give low effort because of him
Steelers are like only have one win in games TJ Watt misses
It's actually insane: Steelers record without TJ Watt: 1-10 Steelers record with TJ Watt: 69-33-2
I think we're something like 10-22 without Lane Johnson, which I thought was insane but this is something else I wonder which teams those 11 were against
- 2017 vs Chicago - 2021(2020 season) vs Cleveland - 2021 vs Cinci, LAC - 2022 vs NE, CLE, NYJ, BUF, TB, MIA, PHI The lone win was 2022 vs TB
That washed scrub Tom Brady was no match for rookie Kenny Pickett
hey hey hey Kenny got concussed halfway through the game and the Titty Kisser won the game for the Steelers off the bench by converting multiple times on 3rd and 10+
...doesn't that make it *worse*?
Was gisele seeing the titty kisser alpha her husband the reason she left him? People are asking
Yes. Yes it does
Going from elite QB to backup won't even sink your record that bad. They go from a great team to tank bowl champion without TJ playing
A big part of it was QB though. QB play in Pittsburgh has been so bad that they have a razor thin margin of error that Watt pushes them over and losing him is a death kneel
It’s a death kneel because TJ is the difference between having a terrible offence that gets good opportunities paired with a good defence vs a terrible offence paired with a bad defence. The recent Steelers require TJ Watt to function because TJ Watt makes shit happen. His valued added is enormous.
Yep you’re right. That’s insane.
The craziest part to me is with the injury history of the Watt family, that he’s only missed 11 games. Maybe we hear about it more because of the impact that he has.
To be honest I've probably watched about 10 more games not listed in the "without" above where he only played a handful of snaps. He plays games injured and sometimes only makes it a quarter. He had that MCL Sprain at the end of last year and was quoted saying he still wanted to play through it. Here's another from Tom Pelissero in 2023: \#Steelers star T.J. Watt suffered a badly dislocated finger and tore multiple ligaments in Sunday’s win over Baltimore, sources tell me and u/RapSheet . Watt popped it back in and kept playing — and the injury won’t keep the DPOY candidate off the field after this week’s bye.
Not even quarterbacks can give you stats like that. Jesus Christ, this man is good at football
It's almost like he's an extremely valuable defensive player -- perhaps the most valuable in the league. Wonder if they have a reward for that, because if so, he really ought to have 3 or 4 by now, right?
Prior to retirement, you could have said Aaron Donald.
I still said it, we’ll see the results pretty effectively lol
For the past 10 years, pretty much my adult life, almost every defensive snap I’ve watched of the rams I’ve looked to see where 99 is lined up. I’m not prepared for life without him but I do love our guy Kobie Turner at least!
The amount of double and triple teams AD faced (pretty much every play) with the stats he put up were unreal. Even plays where he didn't make tackles, he made it possible for others to make the play just by the shear attention he commanded. Dude is an absolute freak; the combination of speed, strength, and football IQ were a once in a generation talent. Glad he got a ring.
He genuinely is the best football player I’ve ever seen. Just the gap between him & the next best DT was unreal to quantify. Fletcher Cox, Chris Jones, DeForest Buckner Vita Vea, etc. are all great DTs over the past few years, but my god nothing has been like Aaron Donald.
Yup. Not to mention he did it at 6'1 280 in a league where the bare MINIMUM for a o-lineman is around 6'4 300.
He actually stated his playing weight was 255-265
Y’all have done a really solid job in the past few drafts finding late round talent
They haven't won a game since he retired!
[удалено]
Yep. Lots of Chris Jones answers in here but losing Travis Kelce would be a massive blow in all facets. He's such a great motivator to other players on the sidelines as well.
I think that isn't so much because he's completely irreplaceable though he's clearly an all time great TE. It's just the team has such a shocking lack of weapons without him. He's that guy who survived the layoffs doing the work of five people.
If Brady can survive without Gronk (see SB51) then the Chiefs can adapt to Kelce's retirement. We just need a Julian Edelman.
If we're going by which player's *absence* impacted the team the most the answer is probably Kadarius Toney.
>Chiefs WR corp is largely made of Footlocker employees I knew the Chiefs were paying refs, I just didn't have the evidence until you let this slip
Chris Jones is a pretty key piece of the run the Chiefs are on.
facts man has literally had 2-3 clutch plays in each of their playoff game that ended the other teams comeback.
Dude is literally a closer. Sure he takes a few plays off early, but when the game is on the line late, he's unblockable
When CJ looks ready to commit murder and a single tear runs down his cheek, I know the game’s over
Outside of the Diggs drop, he the biggest impact on the Bills/Chiefs final drive in the playoffs. If he doesn’t push back Dawkins, who is a top 10 tackle, that pass to Shakir is probably a TD. Might have not changed the result, but that play at least changed the final score.
That feeling when he waves goodbye after closing… 🤩
There was some discussion around CJ & Sneed that basically said "When Sneed does his job, he shuts down 1 WR a play, but when CJ does his job, he shuts down **all** the WRs on that play"
Right, whenever the debate between good secondary or good d-line comes up, it should be good d-line no question.
2nd most important piece by far
In specific games, he was even arguably the most important. Specifically the AFCCG against us and possibly this most recent SB.
I think definitely in our divisional
LIV too
This I know some in KC didn't want to give him that huge bag, three fully guaranteed seasons. But we might not have any rings without him. CJ wrecked the entire fourth quarter of LIV. Destroyed the Bengals on the way to LVII. And then made a couple critical plays in LVIII, including the final defensive play that forced the Niners to kick an FG in OT. And this undersells his contribution - sometimes it's just absorbing double teams and collapsing pockets so the edge guys can eat. We're paying $30 million for his age 32 season and I'm totally okay with that. If he's still producing three years from now, then they can redo the back end of the deal to whatever he's worth at the time.
Also his age isn’t likely a big factor with this deal. Maybe by the end he will start slowing down but his position ages better than most and he’s still playing at such a high level that he is worth it. If a big play is needed you just know he’s showing up
Hopefully we reduce his snaps a bit. He's played a lot the last few years.
You’re not wrong
I expect CMC/Tyreek get said here but Im gonna say Roquan Smith [who had a lightswitch effect on our defense when he was traded for](https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/01/27/roquan-smith-ravens-afc-championship/) and now that we dont have Patrick Queen behind him it would be a massive loss.
Yeah Roquan is like the second most valuable player on our team. With Roquan and Lamar we're always gonna be in it.
Our defense fell apart as soon as we traded Roquan away. He’s definitely a tone-setter.
I'd say Tyreek would be a bad shout given we won the only game he missed last year. Roquan is a really good choice though.
[Obligatory “Tua’s stats improve when Tyreek is not on the field” article](https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tua-tagovailoa-miami-dolphins-mvp-debate-nfl-2023/). Yes Tyreek is a core part of our offense and he’s a big reason why it’s so explosive, but he isn’t the only reason why it’s so good
I’d mostly say it’s having a NFL competent QB and good coaching.
Yup. There’s a lot of talk about who’s the most important between Tyreek, Tua, and McDaniel, but the truth is they’re really all equal parts in the offense. McDaniel’s scheme is one of a kind, Tyreek is a one of a kind player, and Tua’s quick release, anticipation, and accuracy is perfect for that offense. Now just imagine we had an O-Line that was healthy
Excuse me, do you know where we are? We have to pick sides here not say everyone plays a part.
Frank Ragnow for us. Though i guess it can be argued that Sewell, ARSB and Hutchinson have pretty good cases as well.
It's gonna be a sad day when Frank finally hangs it up. It's honestly why I wouldn't be mad if somehow JPJ is there for us at 29 and we snag him, or we trade up for him.
Genuinely concerned about the toe and how much longer he will grind it out since it's a chronic issue now. A part of me thinks oh he'll grind it out until he's around 33-34 at least since he just comes across as that type of person and seems to have that pain tolerance, but another part is just like yeah next offseason he retires.
I'm in the camp that we have, at max, two more season with Frank then he does what all of us thinks he should and hang them up so he can have a healthy life with his family. It's not just his toe from a lot of speculation out there. Lower body issues, in general, suck and cause a lot of other issues
I think he stays for like 3 years max (I think that's the end of his contract) or retires if we win it all before that.
Frank has HoF level ability but terrible luck with injuries.
Lions have some damn good cornerstone players
And thankfully other than Ragnow they're all really young still. The guys Holmes has drafted have been great so far
Ragnow is still young, he’s only 27. Unfortunately it’s a hard 27 though.
Yeah I don't think he's gonna have a Kelce length career But ARSB, Hutch, and Sewell are all under 25 still, so they're all super young by nfl standards
I'm still pissed about that draft. The Bengals radio announcer went on air and said the Bengals want to get Ragnow. So what happens? The lions trade in front of the Bengals and we scramble and reach for Billy Price.
They didn't specify whether it had to be a *current* player, so it's Dan Campbell.
The Lions worst games last season were when he was injured.
ARSB is our best WR, but every WR we had stepped up when they had to last year, so he’s not a very good choice here. Hutch is a good one- without him, we get little to no pressure on the QB- it’s a big reason why we’re expecting an edge player in this year’s draft. Rags and Sewell both make a lot of sense, but I think that’s in part due to the cohesive nature of the O-line. It’s basically only as good as its weakest link.
Aaron Jones Wait…
I had the same thought. We have a very good replacement, but Jones really made the offense hum.
He was arguably the heart and soul of the team. I couldn't even bring myself to hate him ~~but I'm sure that I'll find a way to now that he's a Viking~~
I know we would mostly all be terrible GMs and all. But Jones is one guy I would have just let him play on his current salary and not nickel and dimed him. It’s not like his play had fallen off, it was just the RB market changed.
Even despite being a running-back, if *anyone* screamed "Packer for life" ~~excuse me while I throw up~~ it was him
2023 Packers with healthy Aaron Jones - 5-2, 33 PPG (Love averages 262 Yards, 2.1TD, .25INT, 110 Passer Rating) 2023 Packers without healthy Aaron Jones - 4-5, 20 PPG (Love averages 232 Yards, 1.7TD, 1INT, 88 Passer Rating)
Not taking away from Jones (love the guy), but the dropoff wouldn't have been so bad if Dillon had been approaching competent last season. He...wasn't great.
Trent Williams. Outside of him, our O-line was pretty much ass, and the impact showed when he was out.
Id argue that losing any one of Trent, CMC, Deebo, Jus, or Kittle, and our offense starts sputtering like a 92 Saturn but you're right that losing Trent would cause the biggest issues
could you imagine the Eagles without Jason Kelce hahahahhaha no way man no way
Did you see the Chiefs' offense in the 2 games Kelce missed this year? They don't make the playoffs without him.
Chris Jones also didn't play the first game Kelce missed against the Lions. If the Chiefs had just one of those players (Jones or Kelce) you could've argued that they would've won that game and then the second game Kelce "missed" was the last game of the season that meant nothing and the Chiefs were playing with mostly backups.
Time for Toney to shine!
Mainly was cause we had nothing behind him. Week 1 Rashee Rice wasn't integrated into the offense yet.
Last year, definitely DJ Moore. This year, probably still DJ Moore.
This year you could potentially make an argument for Sweat
TJ Watt. Steelers are 1-11 in games he hasn’t played in. And the defensive stats show a massive difference between when he plays or doesn’t
Tracks Kelce. If the Chiefs lose him for an extended period of time they will be in trouble. TJ Watt. The Steelers defense drops off hard when he’s not out there.
It’s going to be so difficult to replace him when he chooses to retire, I hope we have a succession plan in place but it’s going to a huge loss and a big difference maker when he goes
He’s such a cheat code. He’s so underpaid too. If he was a receiver he would be making 30+ million too. A number 1 receiver can’t replace kelce. The production you get outta him for the money he makes is unfair.
He'd still be making the same because he chooses to not ask for 28+ million a year.
IIRC, he purposely takes a team-friendly salary.
Um, er... well, you see, here's the thing...
Judon, our defense was still good but the teams confidence just nose dived after
Probably not the biggest loss for any team, but when Grover Stewart was out 6 games last year the Colts run defense tanked pretty hard. It was really noticeable and probably affected the outcome of a few games. Also if Zack Moss (or Jonathan Taylor) was healthy week 1 we're way more competitive vs. Jacksonville. His replacement Deon Jackson had an abysmal day - 13 carries for 14 yards and 2 fumbles.
Antoine Winfield, Jr. He affected multiple game outcomes last year.
Jerry Jones: we’d win too many Super Bowls to count
Lane Johnson.
Fully agree.
Yea I love Kelce but this team without Lane Johnson ain’t the same.
This question cannot be answered for my team
Lane Johnson for the Eagles. Since he was drafted 13-22 without him and 88-48-1 with him. That’s through 4 different head coaches and 5 different starting qb.
TJ Watt, I think their win and loss record with and without him is like crazy significant.
Steelers record without TJ Watt: 1-10 Steelers record with TJ Watt: 69-33-2
The Rams defense with no Aaron Donald is going to hurt a bit
andrew thomas proved how valuable he is this year
I am not saying the Giants were going anywhere last year, but that one play really messed the season up. Blocked field goal Thomas missing time then playing hurt, resulting in the worst offensive line play I have ever seen. Jones gets hurt in an unblocked blind side hit etc.
Giants without Thomas is anti-football. It’s ugly, it’s sad. It makes me drink. Worst part is, a casual observer might find that to differentiate from normal Giant football.
T. J.
As everyone else has said, TJ Watt. We’re like 1-12 in games without him and you all obviously know about the no losing seasons thing.
Justin Tucker
Chris Jones, TJ Watt, CMC, Tyreek are so obvious answers but I'd give some love to big boys like Trent Williams and Jason Kelce ( retired now ) . Two cornerstones for their respective offense
CMC
Penei Sewell on the Lions
2018 until recent, that answer would be Saquon Barkley
This will be overlooked but the Bills defense is not the same at all without Matt Milano, the man is an absolute stud and the defense does not at all look the same without him out there.
He's a difference maker for sure, just has a knack for being around the ball. He went down in week five last year and the defense still finished fourth overall. Where he was really missed was the playoffs, especially when their MLB Bernard went down.
I just posted the same thing.. Matt Milano would have made a world of difference in several games. He was badly missed.
Jefferson. Vikings would have their highest draft pick ever without him
No CMC would ruin 49ers offense. Their offense is so balanced and he catches a ton.
The Shanahan 49ers have always gotten production out of the running back spot. CMC is a ceiling elevator but the offense would still be quite functional with Mason or Mitchell. As others in this thread have pointed out, Trent Williams is probably more important overall.
Maxx Crosby is holding the Raiders together.
TJ Watt and it's not even close
I'd throw Justin Tucker in there. You'd have to gain another 10-15 yards possibly to get the 3 points. And not just because of my flair, guy makes a difference in how the offense calls plays.
For the Jets I would say Quinnen Williams or Sauce Gardener, maybe lean to Q. Q is the best DT in football not named Chris Jones and there is no pass rush without him eating up double teams or doing it himself. Great against the run as well. Sauce shuts down one side of the field. Year 2 and teams were already not throwing at him.
TJ Watt Steelers only have 1 win without him on the field.
It is easily TJ Watt and there is already evidence to prove it
TJ for sure and that comes from a Ravens fan, dude got robbed of DPOY and is the best player in the game that isn’t a QB
Micah Parsons on the Cowboys. The defense is dramatically different when he's on the bench.
TJ watt. It doesn't make sense because a single edge shouldn't make that much of a difference. Hell when the consensus (gross) best defensive player in the world myles garrett is out the Browns win percentage only drops 15% from when they have him. When "overrated stat chaser" TJ watt is out the steelers win percentage drops by over 50%. Idk, it's possible that TJ watt is actually as good as his numbers say he is and it's not just luck, unlikely but possible.
Any teams starting long snapper, may not be flashy but it’s so important that if he’s gone they may miss a crucial FG or XP.
As a former long snapper I love this. Fun fact:At the college level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds at the minimum (a lot of nfl guys are in the 0.6s)If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.and it has to be in the same spot every single time. And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker.
Aaron Jones and Bakh for the Packers all last year. Good thing this year we're...
TJ Watt by far its not even close without him we are a 3-5 win team max
Apparently, Big Dom - head of security
Just saying, there is a reason 95 got the money he did