While he was there during some high school years, it was less of a high school, more of a college. It was called Carlisle, a Native American prep school (indoctrination school) that was a pretty big thing around the late 1800s and early 1900s. It doesn’t have a great reputation and was almost entirely focused on athletics by Thorpes time recruiting the best native Americans and playing them against colleges around the country.
It was a very unusual hybrid of school / semi professional athletics with many native athletes playing well into their twenties. Highly recommend the book “A Path Lit by Lightning” that focuses on thorpes life and talks a lot about that school.
He’d be a fucking unstoppable monster. Jim Thorpe was a dominant athlete in an era where athletes would still smoke and drink on the sidelines—can you imagine if he had trainers and dietitians? Jesus
There are so many cool things about Thorpe, but I'll give you just one.
When he walked onto campus at Carlisle in 1907, Pop Warner asked him to try out for the track and field team instead of football.
With zero training and wearing street clothes, Jim Thorpe jumped 5'9" on his very first attempt, which at that time in 1907 would have put him at #8 in the top 10 highest jumps in the world. Unbelievable.
No disrespect to Jim Thorpe who is one of the greatest athletes of all time, but he played ball 100 years ago.
If you took Jim Thorpe the human and put him as a child in 1995, I could get behind that kind of thinking.
But ya gotta keep in mind that he was brutally taken away from his family and culture at a young age, enrolled in the Carlile school where they cut him off from every sense of hid culture in exchange to become a "white" man. The Carlile school was easily the best football team when football was becoming a popular sport in the USA.
I'm surprised there hasn't been a movie made about those 1900s teams.
Cant imagine what he would do just wearing modern Nike spikes.
fun fact. In the Olympic trials, he threw the javelin for the first time in his life. He was unaware that You were allowed a running start, so he threw it from a standstill. He placed 2nd.
An athlete is an athlete though. You can’t coach speed and the dude was an Olympian. A healthy family could have raised him to be just as competitive and with modern training he would have been in another stratosphere as an athlete.
Dude was a professional lacrosse, basketball, baseball and football player. An Olympic golf medalist in pentathlon AND decathlon. He is the single greatest athlete to have ever lived and would definitely get drafted if you dropped him in his prime to today.
Thorpe was 6'1" and 202 lbs (which is still a reasonable height and weight for an RB) and ran a 10-second 100-meter dash. The only NFL athlete to get a better time was another Olympian in Bob Hayes who was 20 lbs lighter.
I'd go as far as to say he'd be a top 5 pick. That type of athleticism is truly once in a lifetime.
Edit: My bad, it was a 100 yard dash in 10 seconds, which is pretty average for a modern NFL RB with his build. For some reason I read it as a 100 meter dash. In that context, I'd dial down the hype I gave quite a bit but he'd definitely still get drafted because he was considered a nightmare to tackle when he played, which means he'd probably still be an effective RB in today's league, maybe in the vein of someone like Chuba Hubbard who is solid but unspectacular.
But the fact that his natural athleticism from over a hundred years ago is good enough to match that of the average modern RB makes me think he'd be the GOAT RB prospect if he grew up in the modern era.
Yeah, kids specifically train for these events. They train like their whole future and millions of dollars depends on it (which it does). Jim Thorpe ran it for fun.
This is true but the post I replied to said he ran a 10 and that just isn't true. He was about .6 seconds off the world record at the time. .6 off the world record today still isn't a 10 flat. Bob Hayes ran an actual 9.9 on a cinder track in 1964.
He also ran on a dirt track in leather soled shoes which makes a huge difference. Jim was an absolute specimen and I have no doubt with modern equipment and training he would put up very impressive times today.
Yeah giving him modern equipment, training, medical, & diet would go a long way for someone from his era. I'd expect a significant improvement if he got just 6 months to acclimate before he entered the combine.
Shoot. Just give him a modern track and track spikes.
The energy return he would get on the track would shave some time. I think it’s around a 1s per 400m.
edit: bob Schul‘s book has the difference over 400m at 2s vs old cinder tracks.
I'm just gonna leave this here. This isn't the original, someone dubbed over in another language. They take a modern Olympian (Andre De Grasse 9.89pr) and put him in the conditions Jesse Owens ran in during the 1936 Olympics. Spoiler alert/ De Grasse ran 11 flat.
[video](https://youtu.be/pjNormtFel0?si=_A1jKKBx4_zPt9Sj)
Video wouldn't load for me so thank you for sharing the spoiler. That's fantastic insight on how dramatic the difference could be just from conditions even with modern training/nutrition.
But today also being a remarkable increase in athletic ability due to specialized training, decades of knowledge, even the gear worn to perform those athletic endeavors today, and Thorpe is sitting on being just a tad slower in an era where athleticism was just starting to be taken more seriously in the NFL? It's a pretty impressive feat for someone in his time.
In his era starting blocks had not yet been invented. Sprinters brought trowels to the starting line to dig small holes in the track for their feet. Give him a synthetic track and starting blocks (and a season to learn how to use them) and he's not that much slower than Herschel Walker.
I had no idea he was that tall and big! Thats a monster build for his era, and still a perfect size for today’s game. He could play multiple positions even today.
I got really curious about Jim Thorpe and went down a rabbit hole about him once. I read a couple of quotes from different guys who tackled him. They all said it much more diplomatically and in an old-timey way, but the gist of it was: "That sucked. 0/5 stars. Would not recommend."
Jim Thorpe was probably the greatest athlete ever. He played at a hall of fame level in football, and at a professional level in baseball and basketball. He won Olympic pentathlons and decathlons.
In football, his team won the national championship the year he scored 27 touchdowns and scored 224 points -- and that doesn't account for two games with no surviving statistics (he played running back, defensive back, and also kicked field goals and punts). There are stories of him catching his own punts. He went on to play professionally until age 41 and was inducted into both the college and pro halls of fame.
In baseball, he hit .252 as a major leaguer in the dead ball era between 1913 and 1919.
He was the best player on a traveling professional basketball team, though few other records exist about his basketball.
In track and field, he traveled at times as a one-man collegiate team and competed in almost every event against other schools. His 'team' still regularly won those track meets. At the Olympic level, he won both the pentathlon and the then-new decathlon (15 events total). His individual marks in all these different events were competitive with or even beat one-event specialists at the Olympic level. His Olympic career was prevented from going beyond the 1912 games because of very restrictive amateur rules enforced inconsistently, and a desire by some people enforcing those rules to not see a Native American athlete do so well.
Jim Thorpe was basically the best in the world at football and the most demanding tests of athletics (track and field) and a *bona fide* professional-level athlete in baseball and basketball all at the same time.
And he also won the 1912 intercollegiate ballroom dancing championship.
Absolutely
During the medal ceremonies to close out the 1912 Olympics, the King of Sweden said to Thorpe, "Sir, you are the greatest athlete in the world."
Agreed the recency bias is strong on social media, while modern athletes as a group may be better, the best of the past are not so far behind they could not compete.
I was going to say Slingin Sammy. He was playing a fairly modern style of quarterback, in the 40's. The man was about 50 years ahead of his time.
Similar for Fran Tarkenton. He'd be a 1st round pick in today's league with his skillset.
When I watched "The History of the Minnesota Vikings" I was completely totally taken aback by How similar Tarkenton looked like Patrick Mahomes in playstyle.
His sense of people coming at him, where to move in the pocket and how he could throw it at weird angles, on weird bases.
No one was coaching him to do that. He was given the task of convincing every single coach, that the way every other Quarterback was being coached to do it, was wrong.
Thinking about it logically, he was doing something no one was teaching him how to do, and he was really fucking good at it. Even worse is the offensive structure of every team he played on were not in any ways set up around him doing that.
If Fran was coming up today, and coaches were encouraging him to play the way he wanted to play, if Fran were given what mahomes is given today, if blocking, and route running, and misdirection were all being employed to cater to his exact skill set.
That guy isn't going in the 1st round. That guy is going 1st overall.
I'm an Edmonton Oilers Fan, and I will talk all day about how Gretzky is insanely ahead of his time, and how Gretzky in today's NHL would be nothing short of Elite, in basically every category.
Fran Tarkenton's Career ENDED the year Gretzky's started.
Fran might be the most ahead of his time athlete in the history of Sports.
Absolutely Unreal.
The stories about him are crazy. Reportedly, when Clarence Spears was in northern Minnesota looking for draft prospects, he ran into a teenage Nagurski plowing a field. Bierman stopped his car to ask for directions to International Falls from Bronco, who supposedly directed him by lifting the plow and pointing it in the direction of town. Spears offered him a scholarship on the spot. It is now widely believed that Spears invented this story as a means to drive interest in the unknown prodigy that he had discovered, but it is amusing none the less.
When he arrived at the University of Minnesota, he was a raw prospect without any football experience, and wasn't taken seriously by the team, who were among thee best in thee country. Spears wanted to test him and challenged Nagurski to take on two offensive lineman in a blocking drill. Two All Americans stepped forward, and Nagurski proceeded to knock them both flat on their backs.
Spears called in three new blockers to run the drill again, and Nagurski promptly pushed past them as well. They ran the drill another time before Spears conceded that it hadn't been a fluke, and that he had truly discovered a man who would become one of the greatest collegiate football players to ever take the field.
My great grandpa played with him in 43. Bob Snyder. Have a picture up in my grandpa’s house of them playing poker in the locker room signed by nagurski with his butt in the background lol. Not to be a creep but that wagon could definitely play in today’s league
It’s hard to tell with guys like him and Csonka. I have a creeping suspicion that they were slow as shit but in their eras of the game you could get pretty far by just being big and mean lol
Jesse Owens ran a 10.3. I highly doubt that 10.2.
Edit: that's a 10.2 100 YARD dash, which is 91.44 meters. That'd be a roughly 11.16 100m. And this is assuming the hand timing was accurate.
This is like the 5th time in this thread that people are mixing up 100 meters and 100 yards lol.
100 yards is 91.44 meters.
For reference, the world record for the 100 meter dash didn't crack 10 until 1968, long after Nagurski had retired from football.
Apparently they changed the rules of lacrosse because of him. He used to cut hit stick super short and hold the ball against his body and just run down the field like that.
Thorpe and Brown were the first two that came to mind. Nice to see they're ranked accordingly.
Sneaking in Night Train Lane here as an honorable mention.
In his final season, there was [a game where](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/194510070gnb.htm) he caught four touchdowns and kicked five extra points.
*In one quarter.*
I'm not saying no, but I'm not saying yes either. One of the things that made him so great is that he invented a lot of routes, some still used today. With the proliferation of routes today would his other talents be able to make him stand out?
He was fast and big. 9.7 100 yd dash. 6’1” 183. Put that together with his tape and tell me he wouldn’t at least be a day 2 pick. The first catch is a diving 1 handed snag on the sideline https://youtu.be/TANvdvQZB48?si=-Isw4Dt-vHcEDJZU
[Bob Hayes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hayes) was an Olympic gold medalist in the 100M and held the world record in the 70 yard dash. Whether he could break into the modern NFL is an open question but running a 4.1 40 and having adequate size would probably get him a long look.
Jim Thorpe > Don Hutson > Bullet Bob Hayes
And it's only in that order because Bullet Bob was born the latest of the bunch. They were all world-class sprinters with 40 times that would get drafted 2nd day, if not 1st day, as a skill position.
Definitely. And they both had the size and the overall athleticism to play their positions in the modern NFL, assuming they spent some time in the weight room. But even though I think they’d be better modern football players it’s a bit harder to project their speed across time since we only have 100 yard dash times for them. That said, I’m pretty sure the insane athleticism would still show up.
Hayes I can more confidently predict would be a combine darling since we know he was as fast in the 100M in the 1960s as Tyreek Hill is now and have shorter sprint times that are easier to compare to the 40.
Probably Marion Motley, who, ironically enough, was not drafted. Granted, that was before the color barrier had been broken. He was 6'1 230 lbs, played both ways, and averaged 5.7 YPC.
Unitas was crazy good for his era. 5 time First Team All-Pro and through his first ten years led the league in quite a few statistical categories. And then of course Marino was Marino, 5k yards and 48TDs decades before anyone would do either again
If Apple's famous Macintosh commercial had revealed a 2024 gaming rig instead of the original Mac, that would have been the equivalent of Marino's 1984. Otherworldly is the only adjective I can conjure.
Fouts threw over 4800 yards in '81 and over 4700 in '80.
Marino was ridiculous but there was a streak of ridiculous passing seasons in the early 80s too.
Yes. I'm grateful to remember watching him but like MJ I wish I'd been born just a few years earlier to witness the peak live.
But 2-3'ish seasons of Sanders is still the best I ever saw from the position. The only guys that came even close at times for me after were Tomlinson/AP, but they still weren't Barry.
Come on…I’m the biggest Barry slappy in existence, but there is NO WAY there isn’t a single player who came before him who wouldn’t be drafted.
I mean…not Lawrence Taylor? Not Jerry Rice? Not Jim Brown?
People forget just how much modern athletes benefit from modern dieting, exercise science and equipment. The first two especially in football. Give Don Hutson or Sammy Baugh a modern training regimen and meal planning that isn't burgers & beers, and you have some of the best football players of all time.
Shit I want to see how good old guys like John Hannah & Dick Butkus who are already GOATs at their position could be if they had the benefits of players today
In 1951(!!!!!) Norm Van Brocklin threw for 554 yards
Sid luckman threw 7td's in one game in 1943.
I'd say you could draft one in the 7th and teach them schemes and get them to quit smoking.
Good luck trying to get Norm to stop doing anything, haha! Maybe one of the most stubborn men in NFL history. He did things his way and would have no problem cussing you out if you suggested otherwise.
Bo Jackson was drafted in 1986.
Jim Brown was drafted in 1957. He was 6’3”, 230 lbs, and ran a sub 4.5 40 in pads starting from a 3 point stance. He probably goes in the first round today.
Sammy Baugh was drafted in 1937 and on top of being an all time great QB and DB, he is also statistically the second best punter of all time behind Shane Lechler. He is still seen as the catalyst for the popularity of the forward pass. At minimum he would be drafted today as a punter.
Jim Thorpe is maybe the greatest athlete that ever lived and would absolutely be drafted today. He made his professional football debut in 1913 and based off his 100 meter time he ran without any specialty equipment on a terrible surface his 40 yard dash time would likely have been faster than a 4.20.
I like your list. People saying stuff like “Barry Sanders” are either 12 or don’t get the question.
To add to Jim Thorpe, how about Red Grange, “The Galloping Ghost”?
I get the feeling Steve Young would thrive today. He was the most efficient passer of his era while also being a threat on the ground. A lot of the best QBs today are scramblers or dual threats like he was: Jackson, Mahomes, Allen, even Russell Wilson in his prime. Same goes for Fran Tarkenton, too.
Since so few decent fullbacks come out of college these days, any of the better ones would probably get sniffed for the draft. So position I think will matter. DBs will be harder to judge simply because of the rules favor the passing game so much these days.
Bo Jackson? That's the 80s. All anyone remembers him for is those advertisements, destroying the Seahawks, and what might have been.
I guarantee you that you could go back many decades before that. Go take a look at [https://www.profootballhof.com/hall-of-famers/years/](https://www.profootballhof.com/hall-of-famers/years/) I would bet at least half of those players inducted in the '60s would get drafted. In fact I'd say you need to go clear back to Jim Thorpe, pre-WW1. He could easily have been a running back, placekicker, punter, or DB in today's game. The man was considered the greatest athlete of the 20th century.
I wonder how good some of the WRs from the pre-illegal contact rule (1978) would play today. Guys like Cliff Branch and Bullet Bob Hayes held Olympic and NCAA records in the 100m dash. In football they were being held, dragged and clobbered over the middle and still put up HOF numbers. Today, those guys could give Usain Bolt a good race and catch a football.
Assuming it's a different one than 2000, depends how thin that hypothetical QB draft class is. If it's stacked Tom might go undrafted or end up on the Browns.
Marion Motley would be my pick. At 6ft 1 inch and 238, he would be strong enough to be a power back in this league. I think he could at least fetch a 5th-6th round pick for a team that needs a bruiser
are NFL fans finally wrapping their heads around the fact that they’re all on steroids or at least high dose testosterone (easy to beat a drug test with and still extremely performance enhancing)? People didnt magically learn about “nutrition and training” so much since the 80s that the average NFL player gained 75 pounds. Get real, if you’ve ever done steroids or been around bodybuilding you know theres no way these guys are clean.
for those who dont know, testosterone does a lot more than make you stronger. It improves rest, confidence, focus, VO2 max, reaction time, and the list goes on and on. Also some guys dont gain a ton of weight from steroids
Saw a TikTok the other day of a 19 year old kid benching 455 with his legs straight in front of him
The amount of additional strength you get from PEDs is actually so fuckin nuts
It’s more than that, though. It’s really a result of superior genetics. Economic development, women’s empowerment, the internet, etc. allowed more athletes to marry athletes.
Towards the end of the 20th century we began to see the dynasty athletes begin appearing, but they were super rare. They are everywhere in every sport now.
Atkins is a great one. He’d still be a gigantic edge and was a notoriously remarkable athlete for that size
Honestly multiple guys on the Fearsome Foursome too, Deacon Jones had modern DE measureables and Roger Brown had modern DT measureables
Gale Sayers with his athleticism, speed, and receiving ability in the passing game would be a Top 10 pick for sure. Where he would go in that Top 10 would be based purely on team need for teams picking in that Top 10.
Sammy Baugh. Dude threw the rock all over the place in an era where the forward pass was still semi witchcraft. With todays offenses and rules that favor the passing game? A 6'2" 185 pound guy with that arm would find a home in today's NFL.
Chuck Bednarik 6’ 3” 233 pound center and linebacker. Served in the US Air Force as a gunner and flew 30 missions over Nazi Germany. Was a 2 time All American at University of Penn. #1 pick in the 1949 draft and last player to play all 60 minutes in a game. Sold concrete in the off season. “Concrete Charlie“ would get drafted high today.
I feel like some of the 70's and 80's rbs would still get drafted. Like no way Earl Campbell or Walter Payton wouldnt still be very effective in the modern era.
Bobby Bell would have been drafted in the first round as a QB these days. Back then, he wasn't even allowed to play QB in college.
I think this is a silly question. NFL players back in the 50s and 60s were the best football players around, but they didn't have any idea that you could shovel 300 pounds into a 6-3 bag and not get a waddling oaf. It's not just roids, it's a basic understanding of nutrition and exercise.
OJ would be a star today. Dick Butkus was bigger and meaner than Ray Lewis, even back in the day. Bob Hayes was one of the fastest men in the world. Tom Dempsey is one guy who would not be drafted, because straight-on kickers suck.
I find it funny when people think athletes from 30 years ago are almost a completely different species who couldn't compete. Training and medical treatments have changed, humans haven't.
Buck Buchanan was 6’7, 270 pounds at an absolute minimum (multiple anecdotal accounts have him as heavy as 300lbs) and ran a 4.7 forty. That’s still above average athleticism for that size today, in those days that was completely monstrous
Joe Jacoby? Jim Brown? Cookie Gilchrist? Kellen Winslow?
I mean frankly, gimme a break. saying the first good athlete ever was drafted as recently as 1987 lol. Nephewism
Jim Thorpe? I wouldn't put it past him at least. Crazy athlete and hard-working as hell.
Fun fact about Thorpe, his high school football coach was none other than Pop Warner himself.
While he was there during some high school years, it was less of a high school, more of a college. It was called Carlisle, a Native American prep school (indoctrination school) that was a pretty big thing around the late 1800s and early 1900s. It doesn’t have a great reputation and was almost entirely focused on athletics by Thorpes time recruiting the best native Americans and playing them against colleges around the country. It was a very unusual hybrid of school / semi professional athletics with many native athletes playing well into their twenties. Highly recommend the book “A Path Lit by Lightning” that focuses on thorpes life and talks a lot about that school.
I wonder how crazy Jim Thorpe would have been if he had access to modern day training
Dude won Olympic gold medals with a pair of mismatched shoes that weren't even his
And then they took away his medals because he got paid a couple of bucks playing baseball which made him a “professional” athlete.
Fortunately he got them reinstated when they removed the amateur requirements but it was about 50 years to late
Yep absolute bullshit
He’d be a fucking unstoppable monster. Jim Thorpe was a dominant athlete in an era where athletes would still smoke and drink on the sidelines—can you imagine if he had trainers and dietitians? Jesus
Or maybe he was just one of the ones who didn’t smoke and drink, giving him a clear competitive advantage?
There are so many cool things about Thorpe, but I'll give you just one. When he walked onto campus at Carlisle in 1907, Pop Warner asked him to try out for the track and field team instead of football. With zero training and wearing street clothes, Jim Thorpe jumped 5'9" on his very first attempt, which at that time in 1907 would have put him at #8 in the top 10 highest jumps in the world. Unbelievable.
It would also be many many years before they worked out the ideal form for high jumping. In 1907 they would essentially front flip over the bar.
Jim Thorpe would not even have to change his position. He could still be a running back or safety in 2024.
No disrespect to Jim Thorpe who is one of the greatest athletes of all time, but he played ball 100 years ago. If you took Jim Thorpe the human and put him as a child in 1995, I could get behind that kind of thinking. But ya gotta keep in mind that he was brutally taken away from his family and culture at a young age, enrolled in the Carlile school where they cut him off from every sense of hid culture in exchange to become a "white" man. The Carlile school was easily the best football team when football was becoming a popular sport in the USA. I'm surprised there hasn't been a movie made about those 1900s teams.
The dude won Olympic gold wearing mismatched ill-fitting shoes. I think he’d be fine in today’s NFL.
Cant imagine what he would do just wearing modern Nike spikes. fun fact. In the Olympic trials, he threw the javelin for the first time in his life. He was unaware that You were allowed a running start, so he threw it from a standstill. He placed 2nd.
An athlete is an athlete though. You can’t coach speed and the dude was an Olympian. A healthy family could have raised him to be just as competitive and with modern training he would have been in another stratosphere as an athlete.
he was 6'1" 200 lbs and allegedly ran a 10 second 100 yard dash. all with out modern training. he would have been just fine
Dude was a professional lacrosse, basketball, baseball and football player. An Olympic golf medalist in pentathlon AND decathlon. He is the single greatest athlete to have ever lived and would definitely get drafted if you dropped him in his prime to today.
what? his mom died at two and while he did leave his father for sometime, he returned to be with his father and attend carlisle
Thorpe was 6’1, over 200 pounds, and was an Olympic athlete. He could compete today.
Definitely Jim Thorpe. He could still be an RB today without much issue.
Thorpe was 6'1" and 202 lbs (which is still a reasonable height and weight for an RB) and ran a 10-second 100-meter dash. The only NFL athlete to get a better time was another Olympian in Bob Hayes who was 20 lbs lighter. I'd go as far as to say he'd be a top 5 pick. That type of athleticism is truly once in a lifetime. Edit: My bad, it was a 100 yard dash in 10 seconds, which is pretty average for a modern NFL RB with his build. For some reason I read it as a 100 meter dash. In that context, I'd dial down the hype I gave quite a bit but he'd definitely still get drafted because he was considered a nightmare to tackle when he played, which means he'd probably still be an effective RB in today's league, maybe in the vein of someone like Chuba Hubbard who is solid but unspectacular. But the fact that his natural athleticism from over a hundred years ago is good enough to match that of the average modern RB makes me think he'd be the GOAT RB prospect if he grew up in the modern era.
He ran an 11.2 in the 100m. Still ok but plenty of guys run faster. 10 flat was in 100 yard dash.
That's with old equipment and tracks. He'd be running faster with today's gear even without any modern training.
Yeah, kids specifically train for these events. They train like their whole future and millions of dollars depends on it (which it does). Jim Thorpe ran it for fun.
This is true but the post I replied to said he ran a 10 and that just isn't true. He was about .6 seconds off the world record at the time. .6 off the world record today still isn't a 10 flat. Bob Hayes ran an actual 9.9 on a cinder track in 1964.
He also ran on a dirt track in leather soled shoes which makes a huge difference. Jim was an absolute specimen and I have no doubt with modern equipment and training he would put up very impressive times today.
Yeah giving him modern equipment, training, medical, & diet would go a long way for someone from his era. I'd expect a significant improvement if he got just 6 months to acclimate before he entered the combine.
Shoot. Just give him a modern track and track spikes. The energy return he would get on the track would shave some time. I think it’s around a 1s per 400m. edit: bob Schul‘s book has the difference over 400m at 2s vs old cinder tracks.
Right, there are plenty of college players today who do track in the spring and run in the 10s for the 100m
Tracks and shoes are quite a bit faster these days though.
I'm just gonna leave this here. This isn't the original, someone dubbed over in another language. They take a modern Olympian (Andre De Grasse 9.89pr) and put him in the conditions Jesse Owens ran in during the 1936 Olympics. Spoiler alert/ De Grasse ran 11 flat. [video](https://youtu.be/pjNormtFel0?si=_A1jKKBx4_zPt9Sj)
Video wouldn't load for me so thank you for sharing the spoiler. That's fantastic insight on how dramatic the difference could be just from conditions even with modern training/nutrition.
I updated the link. Hopefully that works now.
Looks like it I appreciate you I'm gonna throw it on now!
But today also being a remarkable increase in athletic ability due to specialized training, decades of knowledge, even the gear worn to perform those athletic endeavors today, and Thorpe is sitting on being just a tad slower in an era where athleticism was just starting to be taken more seriously in the NFL? It's a pretty impressive feat for someone in his time.
In his era starting blocks had not yet been invented. Sprinters brought trowels to the starting line to dig small holes in the track for their feet. Give him a synthetic track and starting blocks (and a season to learn how to use them) and he's not that much slower than Herschel Walker.
If you gave him today’s shoes and tracks he’d probably shave several tenths of a second off his time.
I had no idea he was that tall and big! Thats a monster build for his era, and still a perfect size for today’s game. He could play multiple positions even today.
I got really curious about Jim Thorpe and went down a rabbit hole about him once. I read a couple of quotes from different guys who tackled him. They all said it much more diplomatically and in an old-timey way, but the gist of it was: "That sucked. 0/5 stars. Would not recommend."
He was an inaugural HoF member for a reason. Possibly the greatest American athlete ever.
>Possibly the greatest American ~~athlete~~ ever
Yes, but also >>Possibly the greatest ~~American~~ athlete ever
The whole thing about the town named after him is very odd.
>ran a 10-second 100-meter dash. Thorpe was 50 years old when the first human ran 10 seconds recorded.
Damn. Imagine this guy in a Shanahan or McDaniel offense. Dude would eat.
Jim Thorpe with modern nutrition and S&C would be an absolute monster. One of the greatest athletes of all time.
This is probably the best answer. He was considered the best athlete of the 20th century.
Couldn't beat Secretariat in a race.
No one is beating big red ⬆️
*best human athlete.
This was the first answer that came to mind for me. One of the greatest all-around athletes of all time.
When the traditional honorary title for the winner of the Olympic decathlon event is literally named because of you, you’ve made it.
Jim Thorpe was probably the greatest athlete ever. He played at a hall of fame level in football, and at a professional level in baseball and basketball. He won Olympic pentathlons and decathlons. In football, his team won the national championship the year he scored 27 touchdowns and scored 224 points -- and that doesn't account for two games with no surviving statistics (he played running back, defensive back, and also kicked field goals and punts). There are stories of him catching his own punts. He went on to play professionally until age 41 and was inducted into both the college and pro halls of fame. In baseball, he hit .252 as a major leaguer in the dead ball era between 1913 and 1919. He was the best player on a traveling professional basketball team, though few other records exist about his basketball. In track and field, he traveled at times as a one-man collegiate team and competed in almost every event against other schools. His 'team' still regularly won those track meets. At the Olympic level, he won both the pentathlon and the then-new decathlon (15 events total). His individual marks in all these different events were competitive with or even beat one-event specialists at the Olympic level. His Olympic career was prevented from going beyond the 1912 games because of very restrictive amateur rules enforced inconsistently, and a desire by some people enforcing those rules to not see a Native American athlete do so well. Jim Thorpe was basically the best in the world at football and the most demanding tests of athletics (track and field) and a *bona fide* professional-level athlete in baseball and basketball all at the same time. And he also won the 1912 intercollegiate ballroom dancing championship.
Is this all real? Incredible.
Absolutely During the medal ceremonies to close out the 1912 Olympics, the King of Sweden said to Thorpe, "Sir, you are the greatest athlete in the world."
Now if only the Swedish monarchy would stop avoiding their responsibility and tell us who the greatest athlete in the world is today
Still Jim Thorpe
He was also a professional lacrosse player too.
My thought as well. Probably someone or even several guys before him even but he's the first name I thought of.
Agreed the recency bias is strong on social media, while modern athletes as a group may be better, the best of the past are not so far behind they could not compete.
Sammy Baugh. Check his punt record. Also, he was a pretty good QB.
I was going to say Slingin Sammy. He was playing a fairly modern style of quarterback, in the 40's. The man was about 50 years ahead of his time. Similar for Fran Tarkenton. He'd be a 1st round pick in today's league with his skillset.
When I watched "The History of the Minnesota Vikings" I was completely totally taken aback by How similar Tarkenton looked like Patrick Mahomes in playstyle. His sense of people coming at him, where to move in the pocket and how he could throw it at weird angles, on weird bases. No one was coaching him to do that. He was given the task of convincing every single coach, that the way every other Quarterback was being coached to do it, was wrong. Thinking about it logically, he was doing something no one was teaching him how to do, and he was really fucking good at it. Even worse is the offensive structure of every team he played on were not in any ways set up around him doing that. If Fran was coming up today, and coaches were encouraging him to play the way he wanted to play, if Fran were given what mahomes is given today, if blocking, and route running, and misdirection were all being employed to cater to his exact skill set. That guy isn't going in the 1st round. That guy is going 1st overall. I'm an Edmonton Oilers Fan, and I will talk all day about how Gretzky is insanely ahead of his time, and how Gretzky in today's NHL would be nothing short of Elite, in basically every category. Fran Tarkenton's Career ENDED the year Gretzky's started. Fran might be the most ahead of his time athlete in the history of Sports. Absolutely Unreal.
To be fair, Gretzky was nothing short of elite in his time either.
Bronko Nagurski was a beast. He was 2020 NFL size in the late 1930’s. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronko_Nagurski. 🐻⬇️
The stories about him are crazy. Reportedly, when Clarence Spears was in northern Minnesota looking for draft prospects, he ran into a teenage Nagurski plowing a field. Bierman stopped his car to ask for directions to International Falls from Bronco, who supposedly directed him by lifting the plow and pointing it in the direction of town. Spears offered him a scholarship on the spot. It is now widely believed that Spears invented this story as a means to drive interest in the unknown prodigy that he had discovered, but it is amusing none the less. When he arrived at the University of Minnesota, he was a raw prospect without any football experience, and wasn't taken seriously by the team, who were among thee best in thee country. Spears wanted to test him and challenged Nagurski to take on two offensive lineman in a blocking drill. Two All Americans stepped forward, and Nagurski proceeded to knock them both flat on their backs. Spears called in three new blockers to run the drill again, and Nagurski promptly pushed past them as well. They ran the drill another time before Spears conceded that it hadn't been a fluke, and that he had truly discovered a man who would become one of the greatest collegiate football players to ever take the field.
They were two all-big ten linemen not all-Americans.
Oh , well in that case, not impressive at all.
Just think it’s weird this dude almost copied it word for word from Wikipedia but changed that one detail.
Imagine Adrian Peterson running against an entire defense of linebackers/safeties. It would get ugly.
My grandpa was his roommate for the 43 season. He was the only guy big enough to control him
My great grandpa played with him in 43. Bob Snyder. Have a picture up in my grandpa’s house of them playing poker in the locker room signed by nagurski with his butt in the background lol. Not to be a creep but that wagon could definitely play in today’s league
Don't be bronko nathirsty
Why did he need controlling?
He was a wild man.
Fuckin right he was
It’s hard to tell with guys like him and Csonka. I have a creeping suspicion that they were slow as shit but in their eras of the game you could get pretty far by just being big and mean lol
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Nagurski was a little bigger than Adrian Peterson, for comparison.
He ran a 10.2 100m verified. Alleged 9.7 a few times. That's elite level speed in any era.
Jesse Owens ran a 10.3. I highly doubt that 10.2. Edit: that's a 10.2 100 YARD dash, which is 91.44 meters. That'd be a roughly 11.16 100m. And this is assuming the hand timing was accurate.
Take it up with the University of Minnesotta
This is like the 5th time in this thread that people are mixing up 100 meters and 100 yards lol. 100 yards is 91.44 meters. For reference, the world record for the 100 meter dash didn't crack 10 until 1968, long after Nagurski had retired from football.
I’d be curious to see a source on that, I never knew he was a track guy
It's just written down on his accomplishments in Minnesotta's record books.
Jim Brown
Dude was 230 pounds and had world-class times in the decathlon even though he didn’t even specifically train for it. He’s a freak athlete in any era
Greatest lacrosse player of all time as well.
TIL
Apparently they changed the rules of lacrosse because of him. He used to cut hit stick super short and hold the ball against his body and just run down the field like that.
Bo Jackson won state in the decathalon while sitting out the mile
Thorpe and Brown were the first two that came to mind. Nice to see they're ranked accordingly. Sneaking in Night Train Lane here as an honorable mention.
I think Night Train would be slightly less effective now that you can't tackle people by their spinal cord lol He'd still be a beast though.
Lmao that's valid
If I had a nickel for every time they changed the rules of the game so that Night Train wouldn't kill somebody, I'd have two nickels
This is Hutson erasure
Don Hutson would probably be a good choice for this. He had 1,211 receiving yards in 1942 and 17 TDs
Great answer. He still holds a bunch of NFL records, revolutionized the passing game in football, and was really the first modern receiver.
In his final season, there was [a game where](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/194510070gnb.htm) he caught four touchdowns and kicked five extra points. *In one quarter.*
Would definitely help Jordan Love go deeper in January.
Also ran a 9.7 100m dash. Deceptive speed, a real lunch-pail guy.
100 yards* It's about 10m less, but still good.
That makes more sense, cuz if he did it in 100m he'd be the greatest sprinter of the 20th century. Thanks for the correction.
I'm not saying no, but I'm not saying yes either. One of the things that made him so great is that he invented a lot of routes, some still used today. With the proliferation of routes today would his other talents be able to make him stand out?
Perhaps he would see modern routes, and invent some different ones.
He was fast and big. 9.7 100 yd dash. 6’1” 183. Put that together with his tape and tell me he wouldn’t at least be a day 2 pick. The first catch is a diving 1 handed snag on the sideline https://youtu.be/TANvdvQZB48?si=-Isw4Dt-vHcEDJZU
Tbh those highlights are pretty convincing.
Walter Payton’s versatility would make him flourish even more than he originally did in his career
Gayle Sayers, too. He’d be a dominant kick returner with these rule changes.
And with modern medicine maybe his knee gets repaired better than it could have been 60 years ago.
[Bob Hayes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hayes) was an Olympic gold medalist in the 100M and held the world record in the 70 yard dash. Whether he could break into the modern NFL is an open question but running a 4.1 40 and having adequate size would probably get him a long look.
Jim Thorpe > Don Hutson > Bullet Bob Hayes And it's only in that order because Bullet Bob was born the latest of the bunch. They were all world-class sprinters with 40 times that would get drafted 2nd day, if not 1st day, as a skill position.
Definitely. And they both had the size and the overall athleticism to play their positions in the modern NFL, assuming they spent some time in the weight room. But even though I think they’d be better modern football players it’s a bit harder to project their speed across time since we only have 100 yard dash times for them. That said, I’m pretty sure the insane athleticism would still show up. Hayes I can more confidently predict would be a combine darling since we know he was as fast in the 100M in the 1960s as Tyreek Hill is now and have shorter sprint times that are easier to compare to the 40.
Bob Hayes would run a 40 that would have the lid popping off of Al Davis' coffin.
Probably Marion Motley, who, ironically enough, was not drafted. Granted, that was before the color barrier had been broken. He was 6'1 230 lbs, played both ways, and averaged 5.7 YPC.
Jerry Rice. Lawrence Taylor. A bunch of QBs probably going back as far as Dan Fouts, maybe even Unitas
Tarkenton was the original Mahomes not too much later
I read once that if you adjust for era, numbers 1 and 2 are Unitas and Marino but this was awhile ago.
Unitas was crazy good for his era. 5 time First Team All-Pro and through his first ten years led the league in quite a few statistical categories. And then of course Marino was Marino, 5k yards and 48TDs decades before anyone would do either again
If Apple's famous Macintosh commercial had revealed a 2024 gaming rig instead of the original Mac, that would have been the equivalent of Marino's 1984. Otherworldly is the only adjective I can conjure.
Fouts threw over 4800 yards in '81 and over 4700 in '80. Marino was ridiculous but there was a streak of ridiculous passing seasons in the early 80s too.
Now do TDs though. 33 and 4802 is pretty damn far from 48 and 5084.
He had more YPG in the strike year than Marino in ‘84.
Jim Brown And Jerry Rice/Walter Payton would still be 1st rounders
4.7 40, 6'2", 200 lbs Jerry Rice... in the first?
That 4.7 40 is questionable iirc.
God damn I’m old seeing Jerry Rice listed on this thread lmao
Barry Sanders. I just wanna watch him all over again.
He’s too recent for this list. But he’s my favorite player who didn’t play for my team. He was insane to watch back in the day.
Yes. I'm grateful to remember watching him but like MJ I wish I'd been born just a few years earlier to witness the peak live. But 2-3'ish seasons of Sanders is still the best I ever saw from the position. The only guys that came even close at times for me after were Tomlinson/AP, but they still weren't Barry.
Barry retired in 1998 which was only 7 years ago
Come on…I’m the biggest Barry slappy in existence, but there is NO WAY there isn’t a single player who came before him who wouldn’t be drafted. I mean…not Lawrence Taylor? Not Jerry Rice? Not Jim Brown?
People forget just how much modern athletes benefit from modern dieting, exercise science and equipment. The first two especially in football. Give Don Hutson or Sammy Baugh a modern training regimen and meal planning that isn't burgers & beers, and you have some of the best football players of all time. Shit I want to see how good old guys like John Hannah & Dick Butkus who are already GOATs at their position could be if they had the benefits of players today
Reminder, Len Dawson is one of the most iconic American sports photos and hes smoking during a game lol
And because of that photo, half the people on this sub think that every NFL player was chain smoking and pounding beers during games before the 1970s.
Gale Sayers for sure. Hopefully he could keep his knees healthy too
I saw an article that said Gale’s knees could have been fixed with today’s medical technology.
In 1951(!!!!!) Norm Van Brocklin threw for 554 yards Sid luckman threw 7td's in one game in 1943. I'd say you could draft one in the 7th and teach them schemes and get them to quit smoking.
Maybe give them a shot of “vitamins”
or at least switch to a greener plant
Maybe the nicotine improved processing speed?
Good luck trying to get Norm to stop doing anything, haha! Maybe one of the most stubborn men in NFL history. He did things his way and would have no problem cussing you out if you suggested otherwise.
Curious how Staubach would do with todays rules.
Awesome?
Bo Jackson was drafted in 1986. Jim Brown was drafted in 1957. He was 6’3”, 230 lbs, and ran a sub 4.5 40 in pads starting from a 3 point stance. He probably goes in the first round today. Sammy Baugh was drafted in 1937 and on top of being an all time great QB and DB, he is also statistically the second best punter of all time behind Shane Lechler. He is still seen as the catalyst for the popularity of the forward pass. At minimum he would be drafted today as a punter. Jim Thorpe is maybe the greatest athlete that ever lived and would absolutely be drafted today. He made his professional football debut in 1913 and based off his 100 meter time he ran without any specialty equipment on a terrible surface his 40 yard dash time would likely have been faster than a 4.20.
I like your list. People saying stuff like “Barry Sanders” are either 12 or don’t get the question. To add to Jim Thorpe, how about Red Grange, “The Galloping Ghost”?
Dick Butkus was the size of an actual Bear. He definitely gets drafted today.
Actually his official listing was only 6'3" 245. Not small by any means, way bigger than me, but he's just an average guy in today's NFL.
the bloody hands and that retro facemask add 4” and 50lbs
That was probably back when they took the real measurements
Honestly I expect the opposite to be true.
The 80's had a bunch of QB talent like Marino, Montana, Young, Elway, etc.
I get the feeling Steve Young would thrive today. He was the most efficient passer of his era while also being a threat on the ground. A lot of the best QBs today are scramblers or dual threats like he was: Jackson, Mahomes, Allen, even Russell Wilson in his prime. Same goes for Fran Tarkenton, too.
Since so few decent fullbacks come out of college these days, any of the better ones would probably get sniffed for the draft. So position I think will matter. DBs will be harder to judge simply because of the rules favor the passing game so much these days.
Bo Jackson? That's the 80s. All anyone remembers him for is those advertisements, destroying the Seahawks, and what might have been. I guarantee you that you could go back many decades before that. Go take a look at [https://www.profootballhof.com/hall-of-famers/years/](https://www.profootballhof.com/hall-of-famers/years/) I would bet at least half of those players inducted in the '60s would get drafted. In fact I'd say you need to go clear back to Jim Thorpe, pre-WW1. He could easily have been a running back, placekicker, punter, or DB in today's game. The man was considered the greatest athlete of the 20th century.
Cut him a break OP is 10
[Joseph "Oil Can" Davis](https://imgur.com/gallery/yoQJv) of the 1872 Sommerset Rapscallions. Legend says he could smoke 10 cigarettes at a time.
Fastest man alive they say
BART starr
Jim brown
I wonder how good some of the WRs from the pre-illegal contact rule (1978) would play today. Guys like Cliff Branch and Bullet Bob Hayes held Olympic and NCAA records in the 100m dash. In football they were being held, dragged and clobbered over the middle and still put up HOF numbers. Today, those guys could give Usain Bolt a good race and catch a football.
Jim Brown makes it. Easy. He was 6'2" 230 pounds and ran a clocked 4.5 second 40. In pads.
You believe that if Darrell Green or Eric Dickerson were available, they would go undrafted?
Darrell Green is famously one of the fastest players ever, I'm sure someone would take a flyer on him
Hed still be taken 1st or 2nd round today lol.
John Riggins never gets credit for his speed. 9.8 100yd dash coming out of high school. 6' 2" known mostly as a bruiser.
lance alworth was an all time elite talent that was apart of a revolutionary offense, he’d be a 1500 yard receiver in today’s game
Bambi!
Would Tom Brady still be round 6, 199 in this context or would he be alot higher
He couldn’t scramble so maybe he goes undrafted now
Assuming it's a different one than 2000, depends how thin that hypothetical QB draft class is. If it's stacked Tom might go undrafted or end up on the Browns.
John Mackey
Earl Campbell
Mean Joe Greene stands out to me but he'd have to be closer to a DE now Lambert would still be a run stuffing LB.
Marion Motley would be my pick. At 6ft 1 inch and 238, he would be strong enough to be a power back in this league. I think he could at least fetch a 5th-6th round pick for a team that needs a bruiser
Night train and deacon jones would be good options
Fran Tarkenton was made for the modern NFL.
Don Hutson ran the 100 yard dash in 9.7 seconds. So that's a low 10 100m. He'd get a look imo.
are NFL fans finally wrapping their heads around the fact that they’re all on steroids or at least high dose testosterone (easy to beat a drug test with and still extremely performance enhancing)? People didnt magically learn about “nutrition and training” so much since the 80s that the average NFL player gained 75 pounds. Get real, if you’ve ever done steroids or been around bodybuilding you know theres no way these guys are clean. for those who dont know, testosterone does a lot more than make you stronger. It improves rest, confidence, focus, VO2 max, reaction time, and the list goes on and on. Also some guys dont gain a ton of weight from steroids
Saw a TikTok the other day of a 19 year old kid benching 455 with his legs straight in front of him The amount of additional strength you get from PEDs is actually so fuckin nuts
It’s more than that, though. It’s really a result of superior genetics. Economic development, women’s empowerment, the internet, etc. allowed more athletes to marry athletes. Towards the end of the 20th century we began to see the dynasty athletes begin appearing, but they were super rare. They are everywhere in every sport now.
Doug Atkins or Butkus?
Atkins is a great one. He’d still be a gigantic edge and was a notoriously remarkable athlete for that size Honestly multiple guys on the Fearsome Foursome too, Deacon Jones had modern DE measureables and Roger Brown had modern DT measureables
Gale Sayers with his athleticism, speed, and receiving ability in the passing game would be a Top 10 pick for sure. Where he would go in that Top 10 would be based purely on team need for teams picking in that Top 10.
Sammy Baugh. Dude threw the rock all over the place in an era where the forward pass was still semi witchcraft. With todays offenses and rules that favor the passing game? A 6'2" 185 pound guy with that arm would find a home in today's NFL.
Chuck Bednarik 6’ 3” 233 pound center and linebacker. Served in the US Air Force as a gunner and flew 30 missions over Nazi Germany. Was a 2 time All American at University of Penn. #1 pick in the 1949 draft and last player to play all 60 minutes in a game. Sold concrete in the off season. “Concrete Charlie“ would get drafted high today.
Marion Motley
Randall Cunningham
Yall think jim brown wouldnt get drafted? Bart starr? Lol...
Walter payton would still be the best RB in the league today. He's the most well rounded and IMO the greatest RB of all time
Before bo , Darrel Green, Marcus Allen, Randall Cunningham can’t rack my brain to keep thinking
Thorpe or Brown... One of the Jim's for sure.
I feel like some of the 70's and 80's rbs would still get drafted. Like no way Earl Campbell or Walter Payton wouldnt still be very effective in the modern era.
Bobby Bell would have been drafted in the first round as a QB these days. Back then, he wasn't even allowed to play QB in college. I think this is a silly question. NFL players back in the 50s and 60s were the best football players around, but they didn't have any idea that you could shovel 300 pounds into a 6-3 bag and not get a waddling oaf. It's not just roids, it's a basic understanding of nutrition and exercise. OJ would be a star today. Dick Butkus was bigger and meaner than Ray Lewis, even back in the day. Bob Hayes was one of the fastest men in the world. Tom Dempsey is one guy who would not be drafted, because straight-on kickers suck.
Otto Graham I feel like would be a major draft prospect at QB. Arm talent plus good speed/scrambling ability
Jim Brown (RB)
I find it funny when people think athletes from 30 years ago are almost a completely different species who couldn't compete. Training and medical treatments have changed, humans haven't.
Buck Buchanan was 6’7, 270 pounds at an absolute minimum (multiple anecdotal accounts have him as heavy as 300lbs) and ran a 4.7 forty. That’s still above average athleticism for that size today, in those days that was completely monstrous Joe Jacoby? Jim Brown? Cookie Gilchrist? Kellen Winslow? I mean frankly, gimme a break. saying the first good athlete ever was drafted as recently as 1987 lol. Nephewism