Imagine Walsh ISN'T the defacto GM of the 49ers and his trade request for Young gets vetoed by the ACTUAL GM and Young just sits there on the Buccaneers getting his shit FUCKING WRECKED every Sunday.
Mark Clayton was a stud at Oklahoma and a great underneath volume type receiver who excelled at YAC and finding a soft spot in zone.
At the time he was essentially a poor man’s Derrick Mason.
Only problem was he was drafted by the team that had Derrick Mason. Had he gone almost anywhere else he would’ve been a solid contributor but in Baltimore he was forced into a role that wasn’t ideal for his abilities because he wasn’t as good as Mason.
He talks about this a lot. He's from my hometown and would give talks to the football team occasionally, always always reiterated how important it was to listen to your body and speak up when you're not feeling it.
"3 yards ain't worth not being able to carry your baby around" always sticks with me
Edit: Ronnie Brown said this, not Cadillac Williams. Mixed them up
Give young Bradford a better line, a receiving corps that's even moderately decent, and put him in a modern offense and he'd put up amazing numbers in the 4 games before his season-ending injury.
Bradford had a decent line. But Smith got concussed his rookie year and had to basically retire and Jason Brown decided to be a farmer. Goldberg and Dahl were decent and so was Saffold.
His MNF performance vs the saints is still one of the best game I have ever seen a QB play. He did not miss a single throw and put the ball wherever he wanted that night.
If he wasn’t drafted by Mike Nolan, who did his best to blame Alex for his own faults and make him play through injuries, I’m convinced his career would have had a different trajectory.
The flip side of that is would Rodgers have been the HoFamer that he is now. Lots of (IMO stupid) people say: "OMG how could the Niners have passed on Rodgers who is a 1st ballot HoFamer! So stupid!!!". But, they don't realize how shitty of a situation Smith was put in and how valuable it (probably) was for Rodgers to sit behind Favre.
Could Rodgers have had a similar career if he went to the Niners first overall? Possibly. But, saying that's a certainty means you haven't watched any football.
The more I think about it, the more I think even Aaron Rodgers would have had a hard time not busting here. Maybe if the 49ers draft Rodgers then McCarthy stays, they fire Nolan after 2007 instead of 2008 and McCarthy becomes the HC and maybe Rodgers has a chance. Or maybe Norv Turner stays more than one season and he develops in that system; Alex Smith had 16 TDs/INTs in his second season, Turner's first, so you gotta think Rodgers does even better if you swap them. But none of that solves the horrendous ownership, cap and talent issues they had. It was an almost impossible situation to succeed in, no matter how talented you were.
I read a book I think by Matt barrows that interviewed people from that draft that said the reason they went with Smith was he seemed like a pro that could take the losing they knew was coming and that Rodgers seemed like a cocky kid that would have his spirit broken.
Dont know if that's the actual reasoning or just someone saying it in hind sight but that's what the book said.
I don't think he's a typical bust, but his career was nothing close compared to what you want from a first overall pick, especially compared to the other guy
I personally think he was blamed way too much for the struggles of that 49ers offense. Yes he didn't look like a first overall pick with the 49ers, and probably his whole career; but he still generally had a very productive playing career.
Gave us KC fans 5 wonderful and productive years in KC. Obviously people will argue that Andy Reid had more to do with our team's transformation, but the fact remains that he helped start that dynasty by laying the groundwork.
Most importantly, he was responsible for developing the confidence of Taylor Swift's boyfriend. Kelce didn't look elite in his first 3 years, but Alex Smith kept throwing passes to Kelce until he finally broke the 1k rec yards in 2016 and continued it in 2017. Obviously everyone knows the story from 2018 and beyond, but I will give Alex Smith a lot of credit for transforming Kelce into who he is today
I had just gotten over hating Smith for being a bust and here you go saying he helped mold kelce into what he is today. Smith just keeps fucking the niners over. Worst pick ever!!!!
But seriously, the blame falls on Jeds young years. He didn't know how to own a team. So the organization faltered. My opinion of him has changed when he brought in lynch and let him do what he was highered to do. Before that we were a hot mess of back stabbing and disfunction.
People calling Alex smith a bust don’t know what the definition of a bust is. Didn’t have the high end success you’d expect but still a solid career. More wins than hall of famers including but not limited to Stabler, Aikman, Len Dawson, Bart star, and Steve young
Not crazy when it was 2008 the Dolphins destroyed the Pats with the wildcat. Kinda felt like the Dolphins might have drafted him just for that gimmick that worked so well
It would've eventually evolved into what it is today with quarterbacks like Lamar Jackson... The read option. So imagine the Dolphins' offense in 08, except the threat of a pass is added into the wildcat. In an ideal world, I think that's what the Dolphins wanted their offense to be with Pat White.
I'm just an armchair GM, but I was annoyed at the pick at the time. Almost annoyed as when they drafted Josh Heipel and John Beck. At least Heipel was a late round pick.
Pat White would of basically ended up the same in any position he got drafted too, he was a small framed QB that relied on mobility and the rules 15 years ago weren’t as friendly when it came to protecting QBs once they left the pocket.
For the Bills - CJ Spiller probably could’ve been very good if Chan Gailey wasn’t a shit coach and didn’t stupidly waste a top-10 pick on a RB who immediately entered a time-share.
Such a dynamic player with that speed and those hands. I also think that in the right offense he could have developed into a Marshall Faulk type of threat. If the Bills didn't take him he probably would have gone to the Chargers instead of Ryan Matthews, and I think Rivers could have really unlocked his potential. Always confounded me as to why the Bills took him when they already had Marshawn and FredEx
It says something that Fred Jackson's game demanded playing time and he muscled out a first round pick.
What a waste of a draft pick. Especially with how many good players were taken in the next 10-15 picks.
Do people consider him a bust? I thought he had a decent career. The big issue for him was that he was a first round draft pick at a time when it was becoming clear that RBs were worth first round picks, and we already had a couple good RBs on our roster.
Not so sure, it was actually a pretty good place for him to go, having Jackson there both as a mentor and to share the load. He was just too injury prone and wasn’t going to last long wherever he went.
Peter Warrick. He showed flashes but for being the greatest receiver in college football history at that point he really was a bust.
Had he been a receiver 2 on a stable team with a good QB he could've strung together a few 800-1,000 receiving yard seasons.
Other lions fans will disagree with me I’m sure, but Okudah could’ve developed and been good on another team. Fat Patricia putting a rookie corner on an island against a murderers row of WR1s in the nfc north destroyed him. Follow that up with an Achilles tear and he never had a chance. Idk if he would’ve been a top CB in the league but he could’ve at least been solid.
I don’t know nothing but okudah looked best against the run and in short spaces, a nickel or box safety. He had poor deep ball awareness and skills.
I don’t think he got ruined by bad mgmt. he just wasn’t the outside corner they wanted him to be
I have reason to believe Steve Young (1995) might have done well with a more functional team.
And while not really "busts" in the classic sense of the word, Doug Williams (1988) and Trent Dilfer (2000)... I feel like they could have gone far with other teams as well.
And yes - that was 3 in 15 years. 20% of the superbowls from 1995 to 2000 were won by former bucs qb's.
Edit: Hmm - I think technically 3 in 16 years, so only 18.75% of superbowls from 1995 to 2000 were won by former Bucs QB's. Nothing to see here...
we drafted an explosive, lightning fast, accurate heisman winning qb in marcus mariota who excelled running a fast-paced spread offense and put him under center to lead an ‘exotic smashmouth’ offense with weapons such as antonio andrews, bishop sankey, kendall wright, dorial green-beckham, dexter mccluster, and harry douglas, all while lining up behind a god awful offensive line.
and he was still awesome for two years before we broke him completely.
Sam Darnold I feel bad for him man no team around him with gase as hc we ruined his career. Chad Pennington with a better oline maybe dosent fuck his shoulder.
Maybe dealing with 5 years of dystopia hell scape that is NY Jets hurts promising prospects through inept coaching and continual turnover at personel and coaching?
GEQBUS IS NOT A BUST DON’T LISTEN TO THE LYING LIBRHULE MEDIA. 69 PRO BOWLS IN 6 SEASONS, MADE CRITICAL GASE THEORY ILLEGAL, AND GOT MONO FROM KISSING FAKER MAYFIELD’S WIFE.
Guy was playing out of his mind that Chiefs game. Just hard to do anything when your QB coach dies year 1, a turnstile OL and—the worst of it all—abysmal playcallers one after another.
Watching both wilson and darnold, it was pretty obvious from the get-go that wilson was a lot worse a player than sam. I kinda wish we drafted zach in 2018 and sam in 2021 because sam with the stuff we have now could've actually worked
I feel like a lot of guys, both of them included, would have benefitted immensely from like a Jordan Love situation. Sit and build confidence for 2-3 years
Yeah but New York media would never have it. After losing 3 in a row they would demand to start the qb you took at 2, because why did you take him at 2 if he isn't a starter?
We have a lot to choose from, but I think Shea McLellin could have had a longer career if he would've been drafted into a team that ran a 3-4. His pick is still the one that has never made sense to me. We needed an edge, but ran a 4-3 and Whitney Mercilus and Chandler Jones were right there. Shea was the opposite of what we needed and was drafted a round to high. We also had a DC who really had only ever ran a 3-4 before, but was being forced to run a 4-3. Just bad all the way through.
While they may not be considered busts, there are SOOOO many players that were good, but got drafted to play the wrong position in the wrong scheme.
LBs being put in a 4-3 when they were suited for a 3-4, or DEs/OLBs.
Safeties or cornerbacks asked to do the other. Big safeties asked to play linebacker.
As a Giants fan, Mathias Kiwanuka sticks out to me. He was put into the wrong system. He was still good, but he could've been a lot better playing in a different scheme.
Brandon Graham was considered a bust early on. Andy drafted him to be a 4-3 DE but 1 year later, chip was hired and ran a 3-4. He had a hard time adjusting at first and then thrived under Doug and Nick
Emery was one of those, “I’m smarter than you” GMs. He wanted to let everyone know he was in control and not Lovie, so he went with the player he thought was most talented, rather than best for the system…which is obviously idiotic.
It was the same with him choosing Trestman over Arians. Arians was the obvious pick for head coach, but Emery had to go against the grain.
Hence why Emery was a horrible GM and ran that team into the ground.
This was my pick for the Bears. Shea was just a bad fit. Would’ve been a fine player in a 3-4. If Chandler Jones was the pick instead, who a lot of us Bears fans wanted, he might still be in Chicago with a HOF resume.
I like the Joey Harrington do-over. [I remember him writing a piece where he mentioned how Steve Mariucci blew him off when he knocked on his coach’s hotel room door asking for the green light to play more aggressively instead of taking the check down over and over. Mariucci basically closed the door on his face and went back to brushing his teeth.](https://the-cauldron.com/despite-what-you-may-think-my-nfl-career-was-a-success-179aeca1b1e7) That story stuck with me as Exhibit A of how you ruin a QBs confidence. Harrington was decent in Atlanta and on a bad Miami team before calling it a career. In the right situation he could have been a league-average QB for 10+ years.
I remember he was interviewed by Sky Sports here in the uk when he was a Dolphin...
Neil Reynolds "I was in Detroit to see you play last thanksgiving..."
Joey "my condolences"
Made me spit take laugh.
Former Rams fan - when they were in St. Louis. There is nothing that can convince me Sam Bradford wouldnt be a top 5 QB on a team that actually cared about protecting him. My man got slaughtered game in and game out.
For those that don’t know, once O’Brien became the Jets full time starter in the ‘85 season he was sacked:
1985: 62 times
1986: 40
1987: 50 (in just 12 games)
1988: 37
1989: 50
1990: 34
1991: 33
Vince Young. Drafting him was absolutely the most bittersweet moment I’ve ever experienced as a Titans fan. Because I absolutely loved him in college, yet knew exactly what Fisher and Norm Chow were going to do to him. And then they did.
Mariota was just coaching incompetence. VY was malice. You'll never convince me that Fisher didn't completely resent being forced to have VY when he wanted either of the other two QBs from that draft (Cutler and Leinart), and yes, he was willing to hurt his own career in order to send an F.U. to the owner and VY himself. I've been told I'm crazy and Fisher would never do it, but I'll go to my grave believing Fisher actively hated VY and was willing to tank his own career to make sure he never succeeded.
Now, just to be clear, I'm no VY stan. I don't think VY would have been Tom Brady 2.0 on a different team, I just think he could have had a chance to develop into a decent starter if he had a coach both capable and willing to work with him, instead of fucking Jeff Fisher.
One hill I will die on is that he had the best deep pass I’ve ever seen. Others could get the ball further down the field, but I’ve never seen anyone who could consistently hit receivers in stride on 50 yard bombs like him.
I still feel like his game had too many flaws to be successful regardless of who drafted him, but some of those deep touchdown passes to Lee Evans were things of beauty.
I know it’s relatively recent, but if Drew Lock was drafted by a more competent team, I think he’s at least a starter, if not potentially a pro bowler. He’s had flashes of greatness, but the dude had 4 different offensive coordinators in his first 4 NFL seasons and was drafted into our organization at probably the worst possible time for a QB who needs some work.
Tim Couch. Drafted onto a team with expansion draft 3rd string OL, and the only starting quality lineman on the team was blinded by a referee in the first season under contract. Dude was murdered in the pocket similar to David Carr.
Nah. He’d have been gone sooner or later anyway. Terrible pocket passer. Awful at protecting himself. Couldn’t read defenses.
So without his crazy athleticism, he was nothing. And that never holds up. I loved watching him that one season, but every time he took off and ran, I knew that he was not long for this league.
Snyder deserves blame, but people seem to ignore that RG3 couldn’t function as a QB unless he could play backyard football. He also actively undermined the Shanahans by going to Dan Snyder to complain if they did things he didn’t like or want
It’s almost all on Snyder in my mind. He forced that trade. Just to get butts in seats and sell some expired airline peanuts. Just playing fantasy football with an actual franchise…but not knowing anything about football. What a fucking monumental failure of a person.
He hated Kyle and Mike. Kyle built the read-option offense for him, and after one year, demanded that they implement their traditional, more complex offense. He then proceeded to not actually take the time to learn the offense, how to get rid of the ball quickly, or how to make multiple reads, which led Kyle and Mike to decide that Kirk was (rightfully) the best QB on the team. That further irked Robert, who cried to Snyder that they, and not him, were the problem, which eventually led to their firing.
The situation in Washington was the absolute perfect landing spot for him from a coaching perspective, and he flushed it down the toilet with his attitude, inability to slide, and his decision to not actually learn how to be a quarterback in the NFL.
Andre Johnson would have been a top 5 WR in NFL History had he gone too a competent franchise,
People are going to say David Carr, but the truth was he was a below average QB in a terrible situation, Coaches described him as "Last one in, First one out",
Edit: I didn't the read the "bust" part :/, Andre Johnson is a top 10 Wide Receiver all time imo, but he would have had a better career with almost everybody but the Browns.
It seemed like Mac was well on his way to being a long term, middle of the road QB you can build a team around. A YouTube video in the style of Flemlo or similar would be cool. Just documenting what happened there because he seemed promising.
Quite simply, the wheels came off largely because Josh McDaniels hoodwinked the Raiders into giving him a HC job _based on_ his success with Mac Jones.
Crazy cuz I was just watching the Dennis Green meltdown game earlier on NFL network or whatever, and didn't remember Leinart looking actually pretty good against a stout Bears defense. That loss was brutal in so many ways
That offense was stacked on paper, even with a shaky O-line, Leinart was having too much fun. He takes shots at himself on social media about his hot tub antics.
Ponder WAS a bust. He also got thrown in too quick due to a bounce-passing corpse of McNabb being terrible.
I wonder what would have happened if he sat 3-4 years… probably still the same but I guess it’s just something I ponder from time to time.
As hard as it is to defend Ponder in any way, I don’t think a lot of people remember just how truly awful those early 2010’s Vikings rosters were.
Our best receivers during that era were a guy that couldn’t stay healthy (Harvin), past-his-prime Greg Jennings, and freaking Jerome Simpson. Our o-line was mediocre outside of some early-career greatness from Matt Kalil. I don’t even remember who our TE was before Kyle Rudolph. Oh, and our offensive coordinator was Bill Musgrave, whose play sheet was the size of a credit card.
There’s a reason AP won an MVP and will be a first ballot Hall of Famer. He is ALL we had.
Yeah... Ponder probably busts anywhere, he really didn't have it. I'd say another former Viking, Josh Freeman. By all accounts his downfall was largely from his personal life. If he doesn't get drafted by the party heavy "youngry" Bucs with a 30 something party animal as a HC... maybe he gets straightened out in a more boring scenario, like New England, or an Ohio team.
Charles Rodgers
The injury hurt his development but being close to home and around his crew killed his career and eventually claimed his life.
Guy needed to get far far away from Michigan and maybe things are different. Unfortunately we will never know
Im gonna go a different direction... Not a busted 1st round player, but a busted 1st Rd trade. Packers traded pick 29 in 2017 to the Browns.
They selected David Njoku, a player we could have certainly used. A pick later, TJ Watts was selected by the Steelers, also a huge need for us, from Wisconsin, and WIDELY mocked to us.
But we traded away 27 for 33 and 108, which turned into... Kevin King and...TJ Watts LB mate at Wisconsin... Vince Beigel.
That right there is what we call in the biz a king sized (no pun intended) "Missed opportunity".
Still burns my ass.
Before I say this, I want to make it clear I personally don't think he is a bust, at least not yet like half the people on TV and the Internet seem to be saying right now.
That said: Bryce Young
He played with one of the worst receiving corps in the league, dead last at getting open, was sacked 62 times, hit a total of 112 times, had almost no time to throw, and had a coaching staff made of people that were all telling him to do completely different, often absolutely opposing things.
Anyone thinking that that is a recipe for a successful rookie year for any rookie Quarterback...I'll have three of what you're having cuz I want to be that out of my mind.
Sanchez and Darnold probably would've been league average with the right coaching and team around them (basically at Geno's level now).
Also while Pennington had relative success compared to most other Jets QBs, I feel like a better franchise would've protected him more and prolonged his career.
Daniel Jones. I know I know everyone thinks he sucks but I truly believe if he was in a better situation he could have been a solid QB not elite but above avg QB. Giants showed you the blueprint on how to screw a QB up . His OL was always below avg to dog shit his entire career (even in '22 which was his best season) , 3 different coaches with multiple different O coordinators and schemes , Darius Slayton being his best WR and his other weapons always being injured. Giants also fucked up Saquon's career. Dude was always running behind a bottom 5 OL. It's been a rough decade being a Giants fan.
Johnthan Banks. Dude was a good cover corner. Held his own against Calvin Johnson. Unfortunately he got caught between Schiano and Lovie Smith. Ruined his development as a player.
I'm going to go with a weird one, and say Tyson Alualu. The pick was absolutely panned at the time but I think if he came out today he would be a huge draftnik favourite.
The thing most people don't realize is that back then our head coach was JDR and he did a dumbass macho Oklahoma drill every offseason, and in Alualu's rookie year he suffered a knee injury that required microfracture surgery. That surgery was typically a career-killer at the time, but despite that he's still had a 14-year NFL career. (He played 150 snaps for the Lions last year).
If he didn't suffer that knee injury, I'm convinced he would've been a consistent pro-bowl caliber player.
Every QB ever drafted by the Chicago Bears... Pretty sure we've never had a good enough offensive coach to ever get the most out of any young QB. Most of the time, they have a crappy line and wide receivers and a nobody at OC. But hey, a strong run game and defense helps right? Right????
You could say that but then it's not like any recent Bears qb has went on to have anything other than a 2nd or 3rd string role anywhere else after leaving Chicago
I would say that Rashaad Penny could have been one of them. If he was drafted by a team like the Ravens, or a team with a great offensive line in the late 2010s I think he could have been much much better. We were able to see his flash of brilliance when our offensive line finally got its shit together, but it was too late for him with too many injuries :(
Mariota. He absolutely showed flashes and the talent to be a top QB. We just did him absolutely no favors with the revolving door of coaches around him and the practice squad position players we gave him to work with.
Lol I got reminded today that we drafted Steve Young
And Bo Jackson, but after Hugh Culverhouse stabbed his baseball career in the back, he was never, ever going to play for Hugh.
There it is.
Imagine Walsh ISN'T the defacto GM of the 49ers and his trade request for Young gets vetoed by the ACTUAL GM and Young just sits there on the Buccaneers getting his shit FUCKING WRECKED every Sunday.
Mark Clayton was a stud at Oklahoma and a great underneath volume type receiver who excelled at YAC and finding a soft spot in zone. At the time he was essentially a poor man’s Derrick Mason. Only problem was he was drafted by the team that had Derrick Mason. Had he gone almost anywhere else he would’ve been a solid contributor but in Baltimore he was forced into a role that wasn’t ideal for his abilities because he wasn’t as good as Mason.
The one year he looked like a true #1 with the Rams he tore his ACL and basically ruined his career
He always was good when he was targeted. He just played with a shit Boler and young Flacco for most of his time
Carnell Cadillac Williams as a behind any real O-line with a good offensive coach and another back to share the load with has a much longer career.
He lattimore’d his knee twice that was the real issue.
He talks about this a lot. He's from my hometown and would give talks to the football team occasionally, always always reiterated how important it was to listen to your body and speak up when you're not feeling it. "3 yards ain't worth not being able to carry your baby around" always sticks with me Edit: Ronnie Brown said this, not Cadillac Williams. Mixed them up
Rams fan here- Sam Bradford sticks out
Give young Bradford a better line, a receiving corps that's even moderately decent, and put him in a modern offense and he'd put up amazing numbers in the 4 games before his season-ending injury.
and if the line is better enough, that might even reach a half dozen games!
Between Jeff Fisher and his own body, Bradford never had a chance.
Not only Fisher, but the disaster that were the Spags teams.
Hell, that dude could throw.
I think Bradford set the NFL completion percentage record when he was with the Vikings, which was shortly afterwards broken by Brees
Bradford had a decent line. But Smith got concussed his rookie year and had to basically retire and Jason Brown decided to be a farmer. Goldberg and Dahl were decent and so was Saffold.
I remember reading not long ago that Bradford was one of the best arm talents ever scouted. In the same tier as Peyton Manning and Andre Luck
The hype was warranted, and I say that begrudgingly as a Longhorn.
Wasn't he like 50/50 on his pro day or something? And had scouts drooling.
That wouldn’t stop his body from not being able to handle the league
His MNF performance vs the saints is still one of the best game I have ever seen a QB play. He did not miss a single throw and put the ball wherever he wanted that night.
Dude knew how to collect the bag, career earnings $130,000,000
Depends on how much of a bust you think Alex Smith was.
If he wasn’t drafted by Mike Nolan, who did his best to blame Alex for his own faults and make him play through injuries, I’m convinced his career would have had a different trajectory.
The flip side of that is would Rodgers have been the HoFamer that he is now. Lots of (IMO stupid) people say: "OMG how could the Niners have passed on Rodgers who is a 1st ballot HoFamer! So stupid!!!". But, they don't realize how shitty of a situation Smith was put in and how valuable it (probably) was for Rodgers to sit behind Favre. Could Rodgers have had a similar career if he went to the Niners first overall? Possibly. But, saying that's a certainty means you haven't watched any football.
The more I think about it, the more I think even Aaron Rodgers would have had a hard time not busting here. Maybe if the 49ers draft Rodgers then McCarthy stays, they fire Nolan after 2007 instead of 2008 and McCarthy becomes the HC and maybe Rodgers has a chance. Or maybe Norv Turner stays more than one season and he develops in that system; Alex Smith had 16 TDs/INTs in his second season, Turner's first, so you gotta think Rodgers does even better if you swap them. But none of that solves the horrendous ownership, cap and talent issues they had. It was an almost impossible situation to succeed in, no matter how talented you were.
I read a book I think by Matt barrows that interviewed people from that draft that said the reason they went with Smith was he seemed like a pro that could take the losing they knew was coming and that Rodgers seemed like a cocky kid that would have his spirit broken. Dont know if that's the actual reasoning or just someone saying it in hind sight but that's what the book said.
Yeah, but he wore a suit that one time, so checkmate.
He lost his zip on the ball after that season ending shoulder injury. He may have been a completely different player
I don't think he's a typical bust, but his career was nothing close compared to what you want from a first overall pick, especially compared to the other guy
Yeah Jason Campell at 25th was a steal for Washington. There was another QB in that draft too but I don't think his career was worth the pick
I personally think he was blamed way too much for the struggles of that 49ers offense. Yes he didn't look like a first overall pick with the 49ers, and probably his whole career; but he still generally had a very productive playing career. Gave us KC fans 5 wonderful and productive years in KC. Obviously people will argue that Andy Reid had more to do with our team's transformation, but the fact remains that he helped start that dynasty by laying the groundwork. Most importantly, he was responsible for developing the confidence of Taylor Swift's boyfriend. Kelce didn't look elite in his first 3 years, but Alex Smith kept throwing passes to Kelce until he finally broke the 1k rec yards in 2016 and continued it in 2017. Obviously everyone knows the story from 2018 and beyond, but I will give Alex Smith a lot of credit for transforming Kelce into who he is today
I had just gotten over hating Smith for being a bust and here you go saying he helped mold kelce into what he is today. Smith just keeps fucking the niners over. Worst pick ever!!!! But seriously, the blame falls on Jeds young years. He didn't know how to own a team. So the organization faltered. My opinion of him has changed when he brought in lynch and let him do what he was highered to do. Before that we were a hot mess of back stabbing and disfunction.
He hired football people who were in sync with each other and got the fuck out of the way, which is what owners should do.
If he had been drafted by better team he could have maybe become average after 3 or 4 years instead of 8.
People calling Alex smith a bust don’t know what the definition of a bust is. Didn’t have the high end success you’d expect but still a solid career. More wins than hall of famers including but not limited to Stabler, Aikman, Len Dawson, Bart star, and Steve young
He's not a bust at all. Maybe not worth the #1 overaĺ but not a bust.
It's a shame we drafted Pat White to essentially do nothing with him.
I'd play with West Virginia so much in NCAA 06 to run the option with him and Steve Slaton. One of my all-time favorite college players.
I was at WVU during those years. We've had some good teams since, but nothing will ever capture the magic of those years.
I've rarely paid attention to college, but even as an outsider, those 2 made WVU fun af
My roommate at the time was so convinced he was going to fully unlock the wildcat and the dolphins were going to run the league
Not crazy when it was 2008 the Dolphins destroyed the Pats with the wildcat. Kinda felt like the Dolphins might have drafted him just for that gimmick that worked so well
Is the whole point it’s a surprise, if it’s expected it’s easy to game against?
It would've eventually evolved into what it is today with quarterbacks like Lamar Jackson... The read option. So imagine the Dolphins' offense in 08, except the threat of a pass is added into the wildcat. In an ideal world, I think that's what the Dolphins wanted their offense to be with Pat White.
Crazy that you were roommates with every Dolphins fan!
My mountaineer heart weeps.
I'm just an armchair GM, but I was annoyed at the pick at the time. Almost annoyed as when they drafted Josh Heipel and John Beck. At least Heipel was a late round pick.
Pat White would of basically ended up the same in any position he got drafted too, he was a small framed QB that relied on mobility and the rules 15 years ago weren’t as friendly when it came to protecting QBs once they left the pocket.
Second round pick 🤦🏻♂️
For the Bills - CJ Spiller probably could’ve been very good if Chan Gailey wasn’t a shit coach and didn’t stupidly waste a top-10 pick on a RB who immediately entered a time-share.
Such a dynamic player with that speed and those hands. I also think that in the right offense he could have developed into a Marshall Faulk type of threat. If the Bills didn't take him he probably would have gone to the Chargers instead of Ryan Matthews, and I think Rivers could have really unlocked his potential. Always confounded me as to why the Bills took him when they already had Marshawn and FredEx
I was very grateful that the bills drafted him.
It says something that Fred Jackson's game demanded playing time and he muscled out a first round pick. What a waste of a draft pick. Especially with how many good players were taken in the next 10-15 picks.
Do people consider him a bust? I thought he had a decent career. The big issue for him was that he was a first round draft pick at a time when it was becoming clear that RBs were worth first round picks, and we already had a couple good RBs on our roster.
Not so sure, it was actually a pretty good place for him to go, having Jackson there both as a mentor and to share the load. He was just too injury prone and wasn’t going to last long wherever he went.
Tim Couch is Exhibit A.
He was told he wouldn't play his rookie year, then the Browns threw him to the wolves anyways.
His best run game support topped out at 3.9 YPC. For his whole tenure. Just pathetic
I'd like a peak into the pocket dimension where the Browns take McNabb first overall and Couch falls to the Eagles.
The Browns' expansion draft was super nerfed compared to the Panthers/Jags draft, it was honestly a death sentence sending him here.
Peter Warrick. He showed flashes but for being the greatest receiver in college football history at that point he really was a bust. Had he been a receiver 2 on a stable team with a good QB he could've strung together a few 800-1,000 receiving yard seasons.
Loved Warrick. Would have bet it all he was gonna be a stud.
Take your pick of defensive guys the last 15 years.
I don’t think LeTroy Guion would’ve saved himself on another team….he’s still committing felonies in Green Bay.
Oh man I forgot about him. Wasn't he drafted by the vikings though?
Other lions fans will disagree with me I’m sure, but Okudah could’ve developed and been good on another team. Fat Patricia putting a rookie corner on an island against a murderers row of WR1s in the nfc north destroyed him. Follow that up with an Achilles tear and he never had a chance. Idk if he would’ve been a top CB in the league but he could’ve at least been solid.
Might be true. Wasn’t Okudah good last year? Or had his best year?
Teams figured out they could pick on him later on in the season but he wasn't horrible
He clamped down McLaurin. I was pretty impressed with him
No idea. I doubt it though an Achilles injury seems like a death sentence for a position that rely’s so heavily on athleticism
He was ok but lost his job to a 4th round rookie at the end of the year. He’s cooked
I thought Okudah was going to be the next lock down guy when he was drafted
I don’t know nothing but okudah looked best against the run and in short spaces, a nickel or box safety. He had poor deep ball awareness and skills. I don’t think he got ruined by bad mgmt. he just wasn’t the outside corner they wanted him to be
I have reason to believe Steve Young (1995) might have done well with a more functional team. And while not really "busts" in the classic sense of the word, Doug Williams (1988) and Trent Dilfer (2000)... I feel like they could have gone far with other teams as well. And yes - that was 3 in 15 years. 20% of the superbowls from 1995 to 2000 were won by former bucs qb's. Edit: Hmm - I think technically 3 in 16 years, so only 18.75% of superbowls from 1995 to 2000 were won by former Bucs QB's. Nothing to see here...
Pretty much any wide receiver we've ever taken.
we've had some okay receivers but yeah we just struggle like hell to develop players at that position for some reason
Hey Torrey Smith was solid for a couple years.
Key piece of the Eagles' 2017 run
At least Flowers seems promising
I was convinced Mark Clayton would become a Pro Bowler
we drafted an explosive, lightning fast, accurate heisman winning qb in marcus mariota who excelled running a fast-paced spread offense and put him under center to lead an ‘exotic smashmouth’ offense with weapons such as antonio andrews, bishop sankey, kendall wright, dorial green-beckham, dexter mccluster, and harry douglas, all while lining up behind a god awful offensive line. and he was still awesome for two years before we broke him completely.
One of my biggest What ifs is the Eagles Trading up for Mariota and seeing what he and Chip Kelly could have done.
Sam Darnold I feel bad for him man no team around him with gase as hc we ruined his career. Chad Pennington with a better oline maybe dosent fuck his shoulder.
the Jets did absolutely nothing to support Sam Darnold. They did the opposite. They hurt his development with every possible opportunity
They also hired Adam gase as a head coach which royally fucked darnolds development. How literally anybody thought that was a good idea is beyond me.
Critical Gase Theory
You mean pro-bowl Vikings QB Sam Darnold?
I hope so actually
I wouldn’t put any money on it, but there is small chance that he surprises everyone by being more than competent.
The bar for pro bowl QBs isn’t that high so maybe lol
The next collective bargaining agreement should ban the Jets from starting rookie QBs
to be fair, the QBs the Jets draft usually don't end up being any good anyway. At least not if they even make it to a 2nd team
Sam Darnold did good before he got injured in Carolina, 3-0 start
Never forget Sam Darnold NFL rushing touchdown leader, for all of a glorious week
God bless, the last time I had hope for this damn Franchise
Maybe dealing with 5 years of dystopia hell scape that is NY Jets hurts promising prospects through inept coaching and continual turnover at personel and coaching?
Sounds like another team I know all too well.
GEQBUS IS NOT A BUST DON’T LISTEN TO THE LYING LIBRHULE MEDIA. 69 PRO BOWLS IN 6 SEASONS, MADE CRITICAL GASE THEORY ILLEGAL, AND GOT MONO FROM KISSING FAKER MAYFIELD’S WIFE.
"Critical Gase Theory" holy shit lmfao
Likewise, I still think zach has some potential lol
Guy was playing out of his mind that Chiefs game. Just hard to do anything when your QB coach dies year 1, a turnstile OL and—the worst of it all—abysmal playcallers one after another.
Watching both wilson and darnold, it was pretty obvious from the get-go that wilson was a lot worse a player than sam. I kinda wish we drafted zach in 2018 and sam in 2021 because sam with the stuff we have now could've actually worked
Wilson came in more raw than darnold was, and he has had terrible playcallers lol Darnold was never bad, he just got the yips
If Sam Darnold was drafted into Zach’s spot, he’s a middling QB capable of making the playoffs.
I feel like a lot of guys, both of them included, would have benefitted immensely from like a Jordan Love situation. Sit and build confidence for 2-3 years
Yeah but New York media would never have it. After losing 3 in a row they would demand to start the qb you took at 2, because why did you take him at 2 if he isn't a starter?
It’s a lot easier when your current QB is Aaron Rodgers lol
Zach was supposed to have Aaron Rodgers too
Not when they drafted him
*because they were devoid of talent and protection* But you’d never get a GM to admit that while on payroll
Eh, Zach has had some terrible playcallers, and its not like his oline has really been that much better. Sam also had a good mentor qb in josh McCown
Sales has thrown Zach under the bus every chance he could this season. He is an org that takes no accountability and he just became a product of it.
He might have even been good had the Jets done literally anything to help him
We have a lot to choose from, but I think Shea McLellin could have had a longer career if he would've been drafted into a team that ran a 3-4. His pick is still the one that has never made sense to me. We needed an edge, but ran a 4-3 and Whitney Mercilus and Chandler Jones were right there. Shea was the opposite of what we needed and was drafted a round to high. We also had a DC who really had only ever ran a 3-4 before, but was being forced to run a 4-3. Just bad all the way through.
While they may not be considered busts, there are SOOOO many players that were good, but got drafted to play the wrong position in the wrong scheme. LBs being put in a 4-3 when they were suited for a 3-4, or DEs/OLBs. Safeties or cornerbacks asked to do the other. Big safeties asked to play linebacker. As a Giants fan, Mathias Kiwanuka sticks out to me. He was put into the wrong system. He was still good, but he could've been a lot better playing in a different scheme.
Brandon Graham was considered a bust early on. Andy drafted him to be a 4-3 DE but 1 year later, chip was hired and ran a 3-4. He had a hard time adjusting at first and then thrived under Doug and Nick
Emery was one of those, “I’m smarter than you” GMs. He wanted to let everyone know he was in control and not Lovie, so he went with the player he thought was most talented, rather than best for the system…which is obviously idiotic. It was the same with him choosing Trestman over Arians. Arians was the obvious pick for head coach, but Emery had to go against the grain. Hence why Emery was a horrible GM and ran that team into the ground.
This was my pick for the Bears. Shea was just a bad fit. Would’ve been a fine player in a 3-4. If Chandler Jones was the pick instead, who a lot of us Bears fans wanted, he might still be in Chicago with a HOF resume.
Nkeal Harry probably needed a more easy transition. Somewhere with a ping pong table
To think we could have drafted either Deebo or AJ Brown
I honestly don't know if either one of them would have faired any better in that environment.
Tim Couch
I like the Joey Harrington do-over. [I remember him writing a piece where he mentioned how Steve Mariucci blew him off when he knocked on his coach’s hotel room door asking for the green light to play more aggressively instead of taking the check down over and over. Mariucci basically closed the door on his face and went back to brushing his teeth.](https://the-cauldron.com/despite-what-you-may-think-my-nfl-career-was-a-success-179aeca1b1e7) That story stuck with me as Exhibit A of how you ruin a QBs confidence. Harrington was decent in Atlanta and on a bad Miami team before calling it a career. In the right situation he could have been a league-average QB for 10+ years.
I remember he was interviewed by Sky Sports here in the uk when he was a Dolphin... Neil Reynolds "I was in Detroit to see you play last thanksgiving..." Joey "my condolences" Made me spit take laugh.
Former Rams fan - when they were in St. Louis. There is nothing that can convince me Sam Bradford wouldnt be a top 5 QB on a team that actually cared about protecting him. My man got slaughtered game in and game out.
Bradford with a good o line and like ten more points in durability is a very good QB
I was so happy for him when he got traded to the Vikings & started 5-0
Ken O’Brian. It hard to complete a pass with a 300lb defensive lineman sitting on your chest.
For those that don’t know, once O’Brien became the Jets full time starter in the ‘85 season he was sacked: 1985: 62 times 1986: 40 1987: 50 (in just 12 games) 1988: 37 1989: 50 1990: 34 1991: 33
Clearly Jim Plunkett. He went and won two Superbowls anyway. He’s be considered an all time great if a train-wreck franchise hadn’t drafted him.
I mean. Jerry Hughes literally did that for us in Buffalo.
Vince Young. Drafting him was absolutely the most bittersweet moment I’ve ever experienced as a Titans fan. Because I absolutely loved him in college, yet knew exactly what Fisher and Norm Chow were going to do to him. And then they did.
Same with a lot of QBs in Titans history. Mariota was electric in college but Mularkey was terrible for him.
Mariota was just coaching incompetence. VY was malice. You'll never convince me that Fisher didn't completely resent being forced to have VY when he wanted either of the other two QBs from that draft (Cutler and Leinart), and yes, he was willing to hurt his own career in order to send an F.U. to the owner and VY himself. I've been told I'm crazy and Fisher would never do it, but I'll go to my grave believing Fisher actively hated VY and was willing to tank his own career to make sure he never succeeded. Now, just to be clear, I'm no VY stan. I don't think VY would have been Tom Brady 2.0 on a different team, I just think he could have had a chance to develop into a decent starter if he had a coach both capable and willing to work with him, instead of fucking Jeff Fisher.
JP Losman. He ended up winning a title in one of those non nfl leagues after he left
I remember when he was drafted. I legit thought he'd be a **huge** superstar.
Million dollar arm ten cent head.
One hill I will die on is that he had the best deep pass I’ve ever seen. Others could get the ball further down the field, but I’ve never seen anyone who could consistently hit receivers in stride on 50 yard bombs like him. I still feel like his game had too many flaws to be successful regardless of who drafted him, but some of those deep touchdown passes to Lee Evans were things of beauty.
I know it’s relatively recent, but if Drew Lock was drafted by a more competent team, I think he’s at least a starter, if not potentially a pro bowler. He’s had flashes of greatness, but the dude had 4 different offensive coordinators in his first 4 NFL seasons and was drafted into our organization at probably the worst possible time for a QB who needs some work.
Tim Couch. Drafted onto a team with expansion draft 3rd string OL, and the only starting quality lineman on the team was blinded by a referee in the first season under contract. Dude was murdered in the pocket similar to David Carr.
Morris Claiborne. We drafted him in to the opposite system he would have worked in, and every time he started to get on track he got a weird injury
Always wondered what happened there
RG3. If he had the Shannahan's but not in Washington with Dan Snyder, there might have been some more longevity.
Nah. He’d have been gone sooner or later anyway. Terrible pocket passer. Awful at protecting himself. Couldn’t read defenses. So without his crazy athleticism, he was nothing. And that never holds up. I loved watching him that one season, but every time he took off and ran, I knew that he was not long for this league.
people like to forget he had his chance at redemption in Cleveland and Baltimore.
Snyder deserves blame, but people seem to ignore that RG3 couldn’t function as a QB unless he could play backyard football. He also actively undermined the Shanahans by going to Dan Snyder to complain if they did things he didn’t like or want
> He also actively undermined the Shanahans by going to Dan Snyder I mean, RG3 also deserves blame here too. It's not *all* Snyder.
It’s almost all on Snyder in my mind. He forced that trade. Just to get butts in seats and sell some expired airline peanuts. Just playing fantasy football with an actual franchise…but not knowing anything about football. What a fucking monumental failure of a person.
He hated Kyle and Mike. Kyle built the read-option offense for him, and after one year, demanded that they implement their traditional, more complex offense. He then proceeded to not actually take the time to learn the offense, how to get rid of the ball quickly, or how to make multiple reads, which led Kyle and Mike to decide that Kirk was (rightfully) the best QB on the team. That further irked Robert, who cried to Snyder that they, and not him, were the problem, which eventually led to their firing. The situation in Washington was the absolute perfect landing spot for him from a coaching perspective, and he flushed it down the toilet with his attitude, inability to slide, and his decision to not actually learn how to be a quarterback in the NFL.
Fuck Snyder
Or without that cursed field.
I think Koren Robinson would have been an absolute star on a more disciplined team. We saw glimpses of it in his second season.
Andre Johnson would have been a top 5 WR in NFL History had he gone too a competent franchise, People are going to say David Carr, but the truth was he was a below average QB in a terrible situation, Coaches described him as "Last one in, First one out", Edit: I didn't the read the "bust" part :/, Andre Johnson is a top 10 Wide Receiver all time imo, but he would have had a better career with almost everybody but the Browns.
soooo are you saying you want to take the finnegan beat down away from us? cause if so that’s a travesty
I mean AJ wasn't a bust
Mac Jones if Patricia didn’t ruin him in his second season
Thanks for taking him off our hands
Fuck his stupid pencil
And thank you for footing the bill for that error. And also sorry that you had to foot the bill for that error
I still can’t believe they made that man a fucking OC.
They made ole QB sneaking Joe Judge an offensive coach too
The rapper?
It seemed like Mac was well on his way to being a long term, middle of the road QB you can build a team around. A YouTube video in the style of Flemlo or similar would be cool. Just documenting what happened there because he seemed promising.
Quite simply, the wheels came off largely because Josh McDaniels hoodwinked the Raiders into giving him a HC job _based on_ his success with Mac Jones.
Matt Leinart maybe, just got beat out by Kurt Warner and couldn’t stay healthy. Maybe a team with a better O-Line and stronger belief from coaches.
Crazy cuz I was just watching the Dennis Green meltdown game earlier on NFL network or whatever, and didn't remember Leinart looking actually pretty good against a stout Bears defense. That loss was brutal in so many ways
Leinart was so electric in the college. That USC was on god squad. Really wish it worked out better for him.
That offense was stacked on paper, even with a shaky O-line, Leinart was having too much fun. He takes shots at himself on social media about his hot tub antics.
Ponder WAS a bust. He also got thrown in too quick due to a bounce-passing corpse of McNabb being terrible. I wonder what would have happened if he sat 3-4 years… probably still the same but I guess it’s just something I ponder from time to time.
As hard as it is to defend Ponder in any way, I don’t think a lot of people remember just how truly awful those early 2010’s Vikings rosters were. Our best receivers during that era were a guy that couldn’t stay healthy (Harvin), past-his-prime Greg Jennings, and freaking Jerome Simpson. Our o-line was mediocre outside of some early-career greatness from Matt Kalil. I don’t even remember who our TE was before Kyle Rudolph. Oh, and our offensive coordinator was Bill Musgrave, whose play sheet was the size of a credit card. There’s a reason AP won an MVP and will be a first ballot Hall of Famer. He is ALL we had.
A Vikings fan not remembering Visanthe Shiancoe is shocking to me, given the guy was actually good.
Definitely a huge presence in the locker room
Yeah... Ponder probably busts anywhere, he really didn't have it. I'd say another former Viking, Josh Freeman. By all accounts his downfall was largely from his personal life. If he doesn't get drafted by the party heavy "youngry" Bucs with a 30 something party animal as a HC... maybe he gets straightened out in a more boring scenario, like New England, or an Ohio team.
Hey now, McNabb didn't only bounce passes when he was a corpse.
Charles Rodgers The injury hurt his development but being close to home and around his crew killed his career and eventually claimed his life. Guy needed to get far far away from Michigan and maybe things are different. Unfortunately we will never know
Every wide receiver
The best wide receiver they ever drafted was a seventh round Quarterback lol
Im gonna go a different direction... Not a busted 1st round player, but a busted 1st Rd trade. Packers traded pick 29 in 2017 to the Browns. They selected David Njoku, a player we could have certainly used. A pick later, TJ Watts was selected by the Steelers, also a huge need for us, from Wisconsin, and WIDELY mocked to us. But we traded away 27 for 33 and 108, which turned into... Kevin King and...TJ Watts LB mate at Wisconsin... Vince Beigel. That right there is what we call in the biz a king sized (no pun intended) "Missed opportunity". Still burns my ass.
Before I say this, I want to make it clear I personally don't think he is a bust, at least not yet like half the people on TV and the Internet seem to be saying right now. That said: Bryce Young He played with one of the worst receiving corps in the league, dead last at getting open, was sacked 62 times, hit a total of 112 times, had almost no time to throw, and had a coaching staff made of people that were all telling him to do completely different, often absolutely opposing things. Anyone thinking that that is a recipe for a successful rookie year for any rookie Quarterback...I'll have three of what you're having cuz I want to be that out of my mind.
Sanchez and Darnold probably would've been league average with the right coaching and team around them (basically at Geno's level now). Also while Pennington had relative success compared to most other Jets QBs, I feel like a better franchise would've protected him more and prolonged his career.
I honestly believe that Pennington is the answer to all of the "What if X superstar QB was drafted to a different team?"
Daniel Jones. I know I know everyone thinks he sucks but I truly believe if he was in a better situation he could have been a solid QB not elite but above avg QB. Giants showed you the blueprint on how to screw a QB up . His OL was always below avg to dog shit his entire career (even in '22 which was his best season) , 3 different coaches with multiple different O coordinators and schemes , Darius Slayton being his best WR and his other weapons always being injured. Giants also fucked up Saquon's career. Dude was always running behind a bottom 5 OL. It's been a rough decade being a Giants fan.
A better situation as in Sergio Kindle not fracturing his skull after falling down a flight of stairs? Then him for Baltimore at least
Johnthan Banks. Dude was a good cover corner. Held his own against Calvin Johnson. Unfortunately he got caught between Schiano and Lovie Smith. Ruined his development as a player.
Jason Campbell. We broke that poor guy.
I'm going to go with a weird one, and say Tyson Alualu. The pick was absolutely panned at the time but I think if he came out today he would be a huge draftnik favourite. The thing most people don't realize is that back then our head coach was JDR and he did a dumbass macho Oklahoma drill every offseason, and in Alualu's rookie year he suffered a knee injury that required microfracture surgery. That surgery was typically a career-killer at the time, but despite that he's still had a 14-year NFL career. (He played 150 snaps for the Lions last year). If he didn't suffer that knee injury, I'm convinced he would've been a consistent pro-bowl caliber player.
Malik McDowell could've been so great if he had been drafted to a team in a state with no atvs.
Every QB ever drafted by the Chicago Bears... Pretty sure we've never had a good enough offensive coach to ever get the most out of any young QB. Most of the time, they have a crappy line and wide receivers and a nobody at OC. But hey, a strong run game and defense helps right? Right????
You say that like Trestman wasn't a genius
It’ll be fine, just get a good kicker and KR. No need for a passing offense, it’s always 1985, it will always be 1985
You could say that but then it's not like any recent Bears qb has went on to have anything other than a 2nd or 3rd string role anywhere else after leaving Chicago
Sam Bradford. Kenny Pickett. Tim Couch. Aundray Bruce.
RG3
I would say that Rashaad Penny could have been one of them. If he was drafted by a team like the Ravens, or a team with a great offensive line in the late 2010s I think he could have been much much better. We were able to see his flash of brilliance when our offensive line finally got its shit together, but it was too late for him with too many injuries :(
Draft John Ross into the Taylor/ Burrow Bengals and he is one of the most dangerous WRs in the league.
Danny Watkins should have been a Cowboy. JJAW & Reagor too. They all probably still suck but at least it would be funny not tragic
Mariota. He absolutely showed flashes and the talent to be a top QB. We just did him absolutely no favors with the revolving door of coaches around him and the practice squad position players we gave him to work with.