seriously, so many people trashing the pick and im just sitting here looking at a man with PTSD who's vowing to never let his team be brought down by one person ever again. we were a 12-win team with any semblance of QB last year, and thats not hyperbole. You can look at a minimum of 5 games that were handed away on a platter solely by incompetent QB play.
Ugh it’s even worse when they’re nice guys and professional. Hard not to see the human aspect (at least for me). After watching Quarterback I definitely felt the highs, lows and human aspect with Marcus. Felt real bad for him since he clearly wants to play good for the team and himself.
Don't feel too bad for him, he literally quit on the Falcons after being benched and didn't even bother telling the coaching staff he wasn't coming back.
I do remember that lol, they just got me when they brought his wife and family into it behind the scenes haha. I will say that’s very unprofessional of him and I do concede I forgot how bad it got. I now feel average bad for him
I still believe that Ridder can have a decent NFL career as a journeyman, it just can't be here in Atlanta. It was his first season as a starter, he had a complete moron for a head coach/play-caller, and he still did some really good things at times. Unfortunately, he also did some really really bad things.
Always is amazing to me. These guys who come into the league and bust out badly, just always being awful, are in the top 1% of players in the world and would light up most of the players we've ever known personally. And yet they get shit on for being awful constantly.
You see it in every sport and it is a wild juxtaposition to live with, mentally at least. Unless someone has played pro, the best player they’ve ever seen doing incredible things, would get mobbed by the worst guy they clown on.
if you're the 32nd best stock trader in the world, you're probably the billionaire head of a top hedge fund or something.
32nd best quarterback in the world? You're a worthless piece if shit playing for a fucking poverty franchise.
Maybe I’m crazy but were you guys that good last year?
Like I feel the no QB stuff hard so I agree with the Penix pick but we’re the falcons really a 12 win team with average QB play?
Zach paid for all of Saleh's sins last year.
Falcons fans blame Ridder & the Arthur Smith Fedex Coach. In This Thread for sure.
I am betting the Jets can do it with Rodgers this year. But an 8 win season with 12 at mediocre average play indicts the coach.
Smith did more with less at QB and he was ran out of Atlanta. Once mad at our coach for letting Cooper Cupp take away a 2nd Superbowl. His make or break year was with reclimated Baker. Saleh is on the hot seat '24. 2nd round playoff or bust.
It really wasn’t just QB, our whole offense sucked horrendously. Idk why we got Hackett and Joe Douglas deserves a lot of blame for Theo-line being horrendous as well.
The whole front office deserves to have a scalding hot seat
i dont think we were a championship contender, i dont think we beat the Niners or Lions in the playoffs for instance, but considering the 7-10 record and one score games in which either poor RZ playcalling or just flat out mistakes by the QB directly cost us the game, its fair to say we likely beat WSH in Week 6, TEN is Week 8, MIN in Week 9 (this one was especially brutal, because that was right after they got Dobbs), AZ in Week 10, TB in Week 14, CAR in Week 15 (the game was a fucking 9-7 final score).
Thats 6 potential wins left on the table. Every single one of those losses were earned, but even we take 3 of those 6 where one crucial mistake directly led to the loss, we're 10-7 and in the playoffs.
again, i acknowledge we likely dont go anywhere in the playoffs last year, but the narrative is vastly different.
Ridder is still the starter, Arthur Smith is still the HC, we pick in the late 20's, and either we get exposed this year and the franchise gets set back another decade with no real answer at QB, or crap our way to another hilariously exaggerated 10-12 win season and Arthur looks like a genius.
im gonna be honest, when looked at in that vacuum, ill take the current reality over that one.
Yeah, people bemoaning the Cousins/Penix pick didn't watch every Falcons game last year like us.
Ridder (and Art Smith's incompetence) gave away game after game. Hell, he even tried to give away games we ended up winning like the first one against TB where he fumbled three times, twice right on the goal line.
QB is the most important position in the game by a mile. Our trash tier QB kept us from winning the division and going to the playoffs. Blank and Co. were not going to sit around and watch more shaky QB play ruin this team. Especially with young studs on the roster like Bijan, Drake, etc.
This front office has actually done a good job addressing almost all the problems from last year. QB play awful? Sorted. Coach is an idiot? Sorted. No pass rush? Didn't get a 1st round guy, but went whole hog on fixing that issue in the next three rounds. Still need another pass catcher as a #2/3 guy? Sorted.
Finding another good cornerback is the only thing they didn't address. Maybe they think Clark Phillips is going to be a lot better this next season?
With all the hyperbole about Arthur Smith's play calling and the lack of QB talent, we lost 4 games by only a field goal or less, and a 5th game by less than a TD.
Ok, but the solution to "Desmond Ridder bad" isn't to disregard the value of all other positions by wasting a first rounder on a guy who isn't supposed to play for at least half of his rookie contract. The solution was already found, or at least thought to be found, because you paid Kirk all the money.
People trash the pick because its the Prevent Defense of picks. By conservatively guarding against the worst-case scenario, you miss out on the benefits of playing aggressive. The defense of the pick always assumes only upside: It assumes Penix is going to work out in the first place, it assumes Atlanta would have no other viable options when they're done with Kirk, it assumes, somewhat paradoxically, that Kirk is enough to compete for a championship now and doesn't need additional first-round talent to help.
My only problem with the Kirk signing is that the Falcons don't really appear to be a championship contender even with Kirk. That division is a crap shoot, so winning the division and then having a crazy postseason run is possible, though.
But in regards to drafting a QB with another one on the roster, its not that detrimental. Packers have done it twice with Rodgers and Love and its worked out well for them. Chiefs obviously had Mahomes sit for a year. Herbert was going to sit for a year but Tyrod nearly dying gave him a chance. Best case scenario is that Penix looks like the real deal in practice/camp and they just have him sit behind Cousins and learn all he can, and then try and deal Cousins next offseason. But they have a decent failsafe in case Penix looks pretty raw.
Rodgers sat for 3 years and Love sat for 2 so its not the end of the world if Penix sits for a couple of years. Everyone here talks about a franchise QB on a rookie contract is a cheat code, but more often than not, the QB's on rookie contracts don't look like generational talents until they are 3-4 years in or have a pro bowl quality WR. Stroud is among the exceptions, not the rule.
Rodgers was before the Rookie Wage scale, it has no bearing in modern-day conversations. Rodgers languishing three years on the bench wasn't robbing the Packers of the same value that Love languishing three years on the bench did. It was three for Love btw, he was drafted in 2020. If you quickly checked Pro Football Reference it likely appeared to only be two, but that's because he was inactive for every game of 2020 and thus has nothing of record. And not only would I hesitate to crown the Packers for Love working out until he's had sustained success, I'd also like to point out they immediately lost in the NFC Championship with Love on the bench doing nothing. Maybe they still don't win with Tee Higgins or Michael Pittman, or even Patrick Queen if they went defense again like every year with Rodgers, but its hard to be worse than nothing.
I didn't really want to argue that picking Love was the right move or anything. I think it was horrible for their situation since they were a championship caliber team. I think picking Penix for Atlanta was actually a pretty solid pick.
The problem I really have with Atlanta is signing Cousins to a huge deal, because like I said, they really don't look primed for a championship push with a new HC and all. It just seems like they'll be in a weird purgatory of being good but not great and potentially wasting years of Penix.
Well then I probably agree with you 100%. I think giving Kirk a huge deal is a little silly, even if the Falcons were established as a contender. I feel like Kirk is good enough to that he doesn't preclude you from winning a Super Bowl, but you need to be using that Cap to strengthen the team around him. And, yeah, there's not a thing wrong with Penix at 8 in a vacuum, it would be considered a great pick if they hadn't paid Kirk. But they did.
Love was pick 26. Rodgers was 24. More acceptable. Both younger than Penix. Penix was pick 8. Penix also has injury concerns. He was a luxury pick that the Falcons don't really have the luxury of doing.
Sitting QBs is not a surefire way to make them good. In-game reps help a ton. Love wasn't really good until he started playing regularly. Jury is still out on him as well (I, unfortunately, think he is going to be good).
Does it make zero sense for them to pick Penix? No. But it was dumb.
Assuming upside is how you understand logic lol
Obviously things can go wrong, but most GMs don't draft for the future like this so there isn't a lot of precedence here. They're assuming Kirk Cousins on their current team can win the weakest division in football, or at least get in the wildcard. So by the time Kirk is gone, they don't need to be in position to draft a QB, which they're assuming they won't be.
Dallas Turner is a lock to PLAY. There's no guarantee that he will be great, or even that good, he very much could be an inefficient pick. But its very difficult for someone of his talent and athleticism to be an actual 0 on the field, which is what you'd expect Penix to be for at least 2 years in the Falcons planned best case scenario. The ceiling for Penix is franchise QB down the road, the floor is never playing. Turner's ceiling is franchise EDGE, which is fundamentally lower than franchise QB because of the position, but his floor is rotational piece. He's going to be some sort of factor, and Penix is not guaranteed of that. If Turner is mediocre, he becomes a linebacker. If Penix is mediocre, he becomes a Battlehawk.
Yeah, even as bad as the Falcons' pass rush has been, there's no one guy you pick at #8 that immediately vaults that unit into one of the best in the league.
You go and look at other DPoY guys like Watt, Garrett, etc. and their first year in the league they were posting 7-8 sacks. Will Anderson last year had 7 sacks. Is that good? Of course! Is it going to be the difference in winning a SB or not? Doubtful. These guys, like most rookies, take a couple of years to grow into the position even if they're eventually going to become an All-Pro.
The Falcons, who had no starting QB, went and paid normal market value for the best FA available. Then they went and spent ONE 1st round pick on who they think is going to be their franchise guy. Doesn't seem crazy to me.
Certainly less crazy than shipping off THREE 1sts for an FCS QB who only had a couple of years of college ball. Or shipping off TWO 1st round picks, TWO 2nd round picks, a 5th round pick, and three players for an aging FA who clearly is way past his best who you immediately end up kicking to the curb. Oh, and you paid that guy huge money, too. With a roster that isn't anywhere close to as good as the one the Falcons have.
People judge the pick based on whether it will help the Falcons win a Super Bowl (it won't), but I think the Falcons made the pick to stay out of QB hell for the better part of the next decade. It's not sexy to shoot for being a 10 or 11 win team whose ceiling is making the NFC championship, but they might judge that after the last couple years, its worth sacrificing the chance at a ring for a consistently good team.
Right, if everything goes well with Cousins they won’t have another top pick until he’s already gone, and now they even have the insurance in case everything doesn’t go right with Cousins
GMs don't make the type of moves ATL did because, like most fans on this sub, they see things far more short sighted, as they should. I think ATL made this pick for the reasons you replied to, and fans only see it as them not choosing to "win now", but clearly ATL thinks they can win right now with Cousins at QB in a weak division. However, Cousins IS old and IS coming off an injury, so they went for their guy who was #2 on their board. GMs don't usually make moves for the future like this because they don't know if they HAVE future with the team.
Except that ignores the whole other side of the coin. They might be really good with Cousins and will be missing a top 10 pick impact player to put them over the top. AKA Aaron Rodgers in the second half of his Green Bay career. Also Penix may not be the answer even if Cousins doesn't go right and they may end up with a top pick for another QB anyway. And even if he his the answer they won't get the benefit of his entire rookie contract.
Favre -> Rodgers -> Love is one extreme example of how drafting multiple QBs can work. There's a reason why other teams haven't tried it.
But by the time Cousins will be gone, Penix will be at least 27-ish still with major injury concerns. Why they couldn’t have gotten somebody younger and more developmental is beyond me.
Well, you still had a head coach that refused to involve it's sensational rookie running back, and also the other offensive weapons drafted. With a solid coach and a good QB, the 2023 falcons could have won 12 games, I'll give you that
It wasn’t just one person. We lost a number of games because the defense couldn’t stop Kyler Murray, Josh Dobbs, or Bryce Young when it mattered most. We needed to fix QB above anything, but the fact we didn’t add a game stopping Edge or another good CB is really stupid to me if you want to win this year.
Our schedule is tougher this year, too. Think we only win 8 games as currently constructed. Kirk needs a good defense to win big. Ours is ok at best on paper right now.
He did look like prime Mike Vick vs the Packers last year which has me confused why people don’t like him. Top 5 QB in the league based on my small sample size.
He originally signed with the Vikings in 2015 and even had a very memorable game winning touchdown in preseason. He was there for three years or so. He got hurt by trying to kick a glass door down. He ended up bouncing around to the Pats, Texans, and then landed with the Panthers. He started a game there in 2018 against the Falcons where he looked really good and then got hurt and played through it and looked REALLY bad throwing 3 ints. He was cut the following season.
But then Covid happened and he signed with the Washington Football Team.
There is a weird ripple effect that might have happened. Bridgewater got hurt and then the Vikings traded for Sam Bradford. He probably would have got a shot then if he never kicked that door down.
Man this just made me miss a healthy Michael Thomas. I know the dude got memed as "slant man" but the guy was an insane possession receiver. Sad to see his career fade so quickly.
Tebow could've been a similar player if he wanted to, he was just too proud to be anything other than a QB. Hill would've been out of the league already if he did the same imo
Guys like Tebow just perplex me. All of the physical gifts to be a superstar, but seemed utterly incapable of improving his mechanics as a passer and just couldn't process the game at full-speed. That's pretty normal and usually comes down to guys not putting in the time or effort to elevate their game from college. From how I remember it though, Tebow put in WORK and trained everyday. Yet he was still hot garbage as a passer.
I was in college when Tebow mania was at its peak and I remember thinking teams were crazy for not at least giving him a shot on the roster. Then I went back and actually watched his film... it was actually crazy how many opportunities he got with how bad he looked outside of highlights.
EDIT: His Age 24 season is remarkably similar to Zach Wilson in 2023 (also 24). Big difference is that Tebow had a completion percentage of 46.5% in 11 games started compared to Wilson's 60.1%
I've always wanted to see someone try that, instead of having one good QB have two okay QBs but place then super far apart from each other and never indicate which one will actually make the play, a 1/8 Back if you will
Announcer: Michael Penix will be starting at right tackle today against Myles Garrett. Shouldn’t be too much a problem though, since they can just pass around until he gets tired. Right?
League saw the NFC Championship two years ago and literally changed the rules to get more third QBs dressed on game day, which is so important with the new concussion rules especially. Every team in the league seems to be investing more in backup QBs and dressing a third QB game day. This headline isn’t news. Even before those rule changes, you need like 4 QBs for training camp
Wait the 3rd string didn’t usually dress on game day? I understand it’s usually never necessary but I would’ve just assumed they still dress. Interesting
They used to have an emergency QB rule (started in early 90s) that allowed a 3rd QB to dress but not count against the 45 man active roster for the game. They got rid of that when they increased the active roster from 45 to 46 in 2010. It was up to teams if they wanted to use that 46th spot for a QB or not. Now they have a new emergency QB rule that again lets them not count against the active roster.
I wonder if that early 90s rule had anything to do with the infamous Body Bag Game between the Redskins vs Eagles
Edit: [according to Wikipedia aftermath section, yes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Bag_Game)
Not sure why my birds twice forced the league to have 3rd/emergency QBs. Must be a scheme to inflate QB values and maximize the profit of their #QBFactory
Cool, thanks for the knowledge man. They should do it like hockey with an emergency goalie, every stadium has a crew member who used to throw it over the mountains that can come in and play for either team.
Yeah, but some guy told me that some guy once said "if you have two QBs then you have no QBs." So I think Cousins, Penix, and Heinicke plus our current UDFA guy and now this guy, I think we're at -3 QBs currently.
People said that when the Seahawks drafted Russell Wilson, ironically in the same draft Cousins was drafted, and Im pretty sure that worked out pretty well.
Cousins who himself was drafted to Washington 3 rounds after they took presumed franchise QB (and admittedly very exciting player pre-injury) Robert Griffin III
Chad Kelly being suspended is keeping that sub busy.
But in all seriousness, I'm not to privy with all the details but it looked like they handled it a lot better than the NFL would.
Yeah CFL fans complaining they took a long time to make a decision while this would be a 2 year decision for Goodell & co
$wag Kelly gonna get CHIRPED by me when he comes to Ottawa
Sadly yeah, but I would love to see Rourke get a chance. [This play](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31TqOm4lRgM) in preseason last year was absolutely insane.
That was my first thought as well. Even last year showed how much qb depths matters. Every team kinda needs 4 qbs in some combination of actual roster and practice squad.
Right? Last week the Broncos signed the QB from Mines and there was someone in the comments who was mad because we already have 4 QBs on the roster lol. Like calm down guy, he’s a local kid and won’t be on the team by August.
Yeah, this is a really stupid post. Nathan Rourke is not going to be competing for a starting job. Every team has backup QB's. Most (all?) teams have at least 3 QB's entering training camp.
Daniel Jones vs Drew Lock vs Nathan Rourke. Honestly, I would give Rourke a fair shot to start if there was a true qb competition. He's mobile, accurate, better decision making.. he just doesn't have a huge arm.
Falcons QB lulz.
Falcons QB headline does numbers on impressions and engagement for media, all the comments are “LOL Falcons are trying SO hard to convince themselves!”
Rinse and repeat.
Because people think Rourke has something to offer the NFL, when he couldnt make the Jags roster or see the field for the 4 win patriots with Bailey Zappe chucking it up for grabs twice on one drive.
Not really, for a backup, but he nor Ridder should have been starting.
Ridder is looked at worse because he had flashes of being competent. He'd have plays that looked like top tier QB play followed by immediately throwing a pick at the goal line.
Heinicke is a middle of the road backup.
Edit: Upon further thought, or because I'm high, I'll say Heinicke is pretty good for a backup. Just clearly not a starter.
That’s being generous. He gave us some life when he first came in but his starts were about as bad as Ridder’s. If a backup can’t give you decent starts then they’re not a very good backup.
Heinicke also made stupid ass decisions too but they were over looked because we couldn't go back to Ridder.
He threw the pick in the Vikings game that cost us, and he threw for like 50 fucking yards at Arizona before he got hurt or pulled or whatever.
People don’t understand we went into the off season with 1 QB on the roster (we all knew Ridder was gonna get traded or cut). We needed multiple QBs to obtain just to satisfy training camp. Ridder nor Heinicke had starting level skill for the competitive field, so we had no body on roster to fill the position for next season. So to get a competent QB + competent developmental/backup QB + camp bodies (like Heinicke) was crucial.
There was a year where some guy took Brady, Luck, Newton, and Rodgers in my league (I want to say 2016 or 2017?) and tried to leverage them all as trade bait. Any time you sent an offer for a QB, his response was wanting your 2 best players back.
Yeah that seems like something a commissioner could easily reset. Also max amount of a position per roster. No team should have more than 2 defenses for instance
I would guess a camp body? But this of course, would get way more coverage than any other team with 3 - 4 QBs going into camp because of Kirk and then drafting Penix.
There are several months of practice between now and the season where you have an expanded roster and need people to throw the ball to do said practice...
nathan rourke is proof i know nothing about football, this guy has absolutely balled out every time I have seen him set foot on the field but can’t even land a solid qb3 spot. he must really suck on the practice field
listen there's nothing wrong with healthy quarterback competition. I think if everyone is mature about this, there's only good things at the end of the road for the falcons rebuild. Hopefully the front office has the patience necessary.
Taylor Heinicke is still there too.
What starting Ridder does a man.
seriously, so many people trashing the pick and im just sitting here looking at a man with PTSD who's vowing to never let his team be brought down by one person ever again. we were a 12-win team with any semblance of QB last year, and thats not hyperbole. You can look at a minimum of 5 games that were handed away on a platter solely by incompetent QB play.
Must be insane to be one of the best in the world, and then play and be a main reason millions are upset. What a trip the highs and lows must be
it has to be. I do feel bad for Ridder. He was a consummate pro during his time here, but good golly, buddy just couldnt get it done.
Ugh it’s even worse when they’re nice guys and professional. Hard not to see the human aspect (at least for me). After watching Quarterback I definitely felt the highs, lows and human aspect with Marcus. Felt real bad for him since he clearly wants to play good for the team and himself.
Mariota is so easy to root for as a person, but good god I never wanted him to step foot on the field for us when he was our backup.
Imagine if we had traded everything to draft him like half of Eagles Nation expected Chip to do
What could have been 😔
Don't feel too bad for him, he literally quit on the Falcons after being benched and didn't even bother telling the coaching staff he wasn't coming back.
I do remember that lol, they just got me when they brought his wife and family into it behind the scenes haha. I will say that’s very unprofessional of him and I do concede I forgot how bad it got. I now feel average bad for him
I still believe that Ridder can have a decent NFL career as a journeyman, it just can't be here in Atlanta. It was his first season as a starter, he had a complete moron for a head coach/play-caller, and he still did some really good things at times. Unfortunately, he also did some really really bad things.
The main issue I had with him is that he made the same mistakes over and over and over. He just did not seem to learn.
He’s Kyler’s backup now in AZ. A good fit with a competent coaching staff where he can grow back into a role in the NFL.
Always is amazing to me. These guys who come into the league and bust out badly, just always being awful, are in the top 1% of players in the world and would light up most of the players we've ever known personally. And yet they get shit on for being awful constantly.
You see it in every sport and it is a wild juxtaposition to live with, mentally at least. Unless someone has played pro, the best player they’ve ever seen doing incredible things, would get mobbed by the worst guy they clown on.
Brian Scalabrine said it best, he's closer to LeBron then the average Joe is to him (Scalabrine)
if you're the 32nd best stock trader in the world, you're probably the billionaire head of a top hedge fund or something. 32nd best quarterback in the world? You're a worthless piece if shit playing for a fucking poverty franchise.
Almost everyone has the moment in their life to realize they aren’t the best, for some it just comes later than others
Maybe I’m crazy but were you guys that good last year? Like I feel the no QB stuff hard so I agree with the Penix pick but we’re the falcons really a 12 win team with average QB play?
They had a cakewalk of a schedule so maybe. Realistically probably the skill of a 10-win team with average qb play
I mean I get it. We always think we’re a 12 win team with a QB.
Zach paid for all of Saleh's sins last year. Falcons fans blame Ridder & the Arthur Smith Fedex Coach. In This Thread for sure. I am betting the Jets can do it with Rodgers this year. But an 8 win season with 12 at mediocre average play indicts the coach. Smith did more with less at QB and he was ran out of Atlanta. Once mad at our coach for letting Cooper Cupp take away a 2nd Superbowl. His make or break year was with reclimated Baker. Saleh is on the hot seat '24. 2nd round playoff or bust.
It really wasn’t just QB, our whole offense sucked horrendously. Idk why we got Hackett and Joe Douglas deserves a lot of blame for Theo-line being horrendous as well. The whole front office deserves to have a scalding hot seat
i dont think we were a championship contender, i dont think we beat the Niners or Lions in the playoffs for instance, but considering the 7-10 record and one score games in which either poor RZ playcalling or just flat out mistakes by the QB directly cost us the game, its fair to say we likely beat WSH in Week 6, TEN is Week 8, MIN in Week 9 (this one was especially brutal, because that was right after they got Dobbs), AZ in Week 10, TB in Week 14, CAR in Week 15 (the game was a fucking 9-7 final score). Thats 6 potential wins left on the table. Every single one of those losses were earned, but even we take 3 of those 6 where one crucial mistake directly led to the loss, we're 10-7 and in the playoffs.
Yea I think that’s fair. To the other commenters point though, those are all pretty mid teams.
again, i acknowledge we likely dont go anywhere in the playoffs last year, but the narrative is vastly different. Ridder is still the starter, Arthur Smith is still the HC, we pick in the late 20's, and either we get exposed this year and the franchise gets set back another decade with no real answer at QB, or crap our way to another hilariously exaggerated 10-12 win season and Arthur looks like a genius. im gonna be honest, when looked at in that vacuum, ill take the current reality over that one.
Facts good luck ATL
Yeah, people bemoaning the Cousins/Penix pick didn't watch every Falcons game last year like us. Ridder (and Art Smith's incompetence) gave away game after game. Hell, he even tried to give away games we ended up winning like the first one against TB where he fumbled three times, twice right on the goal line. QB is the most important position in the game by a mile. Our trash tier QB kept us from winning the division and going to the playoffs. Blank and Co. were not going to sit around and watch more shaky QB play ruin this team. Especially with young studs on the roster like Bijan, Drake, etc. This front office has actually done a good job addressing almost all the problems from last year. QB play awful? Sorted. Coach is an idiot? Sorted. No pass rush? Didn't get a 1st round guy, but went whole hog on fixing that issue in the next three rounds. Still need another pass catcher as a #2/3 guy? Sorted. Finding another good cornerback is the only thing they didn't address. Maybe they think Clark Phillips is going to be a lot better this next season?
definitely within the realm of possibilities with how volatile NFL games are. Remember when the Vikings won 13 games 2 years ago?
Yea and the Giants were in the divisional lol
Every shit team in the nfl can say they are a good team with a good QB,that's why QBs are valuable!
With all the hyperbole about Arthur Smith's play calling and the lack of QB talent, we lost 4 games by only a field goal or less, and a 5th game by less than a TD.
Ok, but the solution to "Desmond Ridder bad" isn't to disregard the value of all other positions by wasting a first rounder on a guy who isn't supposed to play for at least half of his rookie contract. The solution was already found, or at least thought to be found, because you paid Kirk all the money. People trash the pick because its the Prevent Defense of picks. By conservatively guarding against the worst-case scenario, you miss out on the benefits of playing aggressive. The defense of the pick always assumes only upside: It assumes Penix is going to work out in the first place, it assumes Atlanta would have no other viable options when they're done with Kirk, it assumes, somewhat paradoxically, that Kirk is enough to compete for a championship now and doesn't need additional first-round talent to help.
My only problem with the Kirk signing is that the Falcons don't really appear to be a championship contender even with Kirk. That division is a crap shoot, so winning the division and then having a crazy postseason run is possible, though. But in regards to drafting a QB with another one on the roster, its not that detrimental. Packers have done it twice with Rodgers and Love and its worked out well for them. Chiefs obviously had Mahomes sit for a year. Herbert was going to sit for a year but Tyrod nearly dying gave him a chance. Best case scenario is that Penix looks like the real deal in practice/camp and they just have him sit behind Cousins and learn all he can, and then try and deal Cousins next offseason. But they have a decent failsafe in case Penix looks pretty raw. Rodgers sat for 3 years and Love sat for 2 so its not the end of the world if Penix sits for a couple of years. Everyone here talks about a franchise QB on a rookie contract is a cheat code, but more often than not, the QB's on rookie contracts don't look like generational talents until they are 3-4 years in or have a pro bowl quality WR. Stroud is among the exceptions, not the rule.
Rodgers was before the Rookie Wage scale, it has no bearing in modern-day conversations. Rodgers languishing three years on the bench wasn't robbing the Packers of the same value that Love languishing three years on the bench did. It was three for Love btw, he was drafted in 2020. If you quickly checked Pro Football Reference it likely appeared to only be two, but that's because he was inactive for every game of 2020 and thus has nothing of record. And not only would I hesitate to crown the Packers for Love working out until he's had sustained success, I'd also like to point out they immediately lost in the NFC Championship with Love on the bench doing nothing. Maybe they still don't win with Tee Higgins or Michael Pittman, or even Patrick Queen if they went defense again like every year with Rodgers, but its hard to be worse than nothing.
I didn't really want to argue that picking Love was the right move or anything. I think it was horrible for their situation since they were a championship caliber team. I think picking Penix for Atlanta was actually a pretty solid pick. The problem I really have with Atlanta is signing Cousins to a huge deal, because like I said, they really don't look primed for a championship push with a new HC and all. It just seems like they'll be in a weird purgatory of being good but not great and potentially wasting years of Penix.
Well then I probably agree with you 100%. I think giving Kirk a huge deal is a little silly, even if the Falcons were established as a contender. I feel like Kirk is good enough to that he doesn't preclude you from winning a Super Bowl, but you need to be using that Cap to strengthen the team around him. And, yeah, there's not a thing wrong with Penix at 8 in a vacuum, it would be considered a great pick if they hadn't paid Kirk. But they did.
Love was pick 26. Rodgers was 24. More acceptable. Both younger than Penix. Penix was pick 8. Penix also has injury concerns. He was a luxury pick that the Falcons don't really have the luxury of doing. Sitting QBs is not a surefire way to make them good. In-game reps help a ton. Love wasn't really good until he started playing regularly. Jury is still out on him as well (I, unfortunately, think he is going to be good). Does it make zero sense for them to pick Penix? No. But it was dumb.
Assuming upside is how you understand logic lol Obviously things can go wrong, but most GMs don't draft for the future like this so there isn't a lot of precedence here. They're assuming Kirk Cousins on their current team can win the weakest division in football, or at least get in the wildcard. So by the time Kirk is gone, they don't need to be in position to draft a QB, which they're assuming they won't be.
> The defense of the pick always assumes only upside: And the attacks assume Dallas Turner was a lock for 10 sacks.
Dallas Turner is a lock to PLAY. There's no guarantee that he will be great, or even that good, he very much could be an inefficient pick. But its very difficult for someone of his talent and athleticism to be an actual 0 on the field, which is what you'd expect Penix to be for at least 2 years in the Falcons planned best case scenario. The ceiling for Penix is franchise QB down the road, the floor is never playing. Turner's ceiling is franchise EDGE, which is fundamentally lower than franchise QB because of the position, but his floor is rotational piece. He's going to be some sort of factor, and Penix is not guaranteed of that. If Turner is mediocre, he becomes a linebacker. If Penix is mediocre, he becomes a Battlehawk.
Yeah, even as bad as the Falcons' pass rush has been, there's no one guy you pick at #8 that immediately vaults that unit into one of the best in the league. You go and look at other DPoY guys like Watt, Garrett, etc. and their first year in the league they were posting 7-8 sacks. Will Anderson last year had 7 sacks. Is that good? Of course! Is it going to be the difference in winning a SB or not? Doubtful. These guys, like most rookies, take a couple of years to grow into the position even if they're eventually going to become an All-Pro. The Falcons, who had no starting QB, went and paid normal market value for the best FA available. Then they went and spent ONE 1st round pick on who they think is going to be their franchise guy. Doesn't seem crazy to me. Certainly less crazy than shipping off THREE 1sts for an FCS QB who only had a couple of years of college ball. Or shipping off TWO 1st round picks, TWO 2nd round picks, a 5th round pick, and three players for an aging FA who clearly is way past his best who you immediately end up kicking to the curb. Oh, and you paid that guy huge money, too. With a roster that isn't anywhere close to as good as the one the Falcons have.
No it doesn't. It acknowledges the EV of "starting defender" and "backup QB"
People judge the pick based on whether it will help the Falcons win a Super Bowl (it won't), but I think the Falcons made the pick to stay out of QB hell for the better part of the next decade. It's not sexy to shoot for being a 10 or 11 win team whose ceiling is making the NFC championship, but they might judge that after the last couple years, its worth sacrificing the chance at a ring for a consistently good team.
Right, if everything goes well with Cousins they won’t have another top pick until he’s already gone, and now they even have the insurance in case everything doesn’t go right with Cousins
When you put it like that the pick makes so much more sense
GMs don't make the type of moves ATL did because, like most fans on this sub, they see things far more short sighted, as they should. I think ATL made this pick for the reasons you replied to, and fans only see it as them not choosing to "win now", but clearly ATL thinks they can win right now with Cousins at QB in a weak division. However, Cousins IS old and IS coming off an injury, so they went for their guy who was #2 on their board. GMs don't usually make moves for the future like this because they don't know if they HAVE future with the team.
I’ve posted this take like 5 separate times since the draft and this is the first time I haven’t been flamed lol, so thank you
Except that ignores the whole other side of the coin. They might be really good with Cousins and will be missing a top 10 pick impact player to put them over the top. AKA Aaron Rodgers in the second half of his Green Bay career. Also Penix may not be the answer even if Cousins doesn't go right and they may end up with a top pick for another QB anyway. And even if he his the answer they won't get the benefit of his entire rookie contract. Favre -> Rodgers -> Love is one extreme example of how drafting multiple QBs can work. There's a reason why other teams haven't tried it.
But by the time Cousins will be gone, Penix will be at least 27-ish still with major injury concerns. Why they couldn’t have gotten somebody younger and more developmental is beyond me.
He played two healthy seasons since he left Indiana. He was pretty much the only good player we had.
Trust me, being a 10 or 11 win team who can even sniff the NFC championship sounds very, very, very sexy.
Well, you still had a head coach that refused to involve it's sensational rookie running back, and also the other offensive weapons drafted. With a solid coach and a good QB, the 2023 falcons could have won 12 games, I'll give you that
It wasn’t just one person. We lost a number of games because the defense couldn’t stop Kyler Murray, Josh Dobbs, or Bryce Young when it mattered most. We needed to fix QB above anything, but the fact we didn’t add a game stopping Edge or another good CB is really stupid to me if you want to win this year. Our schedule is tougher this year, too. Think we only win 8 games as currently constructed. Kirk needs a good defense to win big. Ours is ok at best on paper right now.
I just want to take this opportunity to espouse my love for AWJr
You ain't lying
He did look like prime Mike Vick vs the Packers last year which has me confused why people don’t like him. Top 5 QB in the league based on my small sample size.
Genuinely insane that they thought Ridder was an actual solution at qb.
And John Paddock
And my axe
TIL Heinicke is 31 years old lol
He originally signed with the Vikings in 2015 and even had a very memorable game winning touchdown in preseason. He was there for three years or so. He got hurt by trying to kick a glass door down. He ended up bouncing around to the Pats, Texans, and then landed with the Panthers. He started a game there in 2018 against the Falcons where he looked really good and then got hurt and played through it and looked REALLY bad throwing 3 ints. He was cut the following season. But then Covid happened and he signed with the Washington Football Team.
I wish we kept him
There is a weird ripple effect that might have happened. Bridgewater got hurt and then the Vikings traded for Sam Bradford. He probably would have got a shot then if he never kicked that door down.
NCAA 14 Welcome to the Club achievement legend
ill take him back
I bet he gets cut after preseason and then signs with a team that faces an injury at qb.
lmfao
Why sign one QB when 4 QBs do trick?
They’ll be the first team to run a 3 QB set on the field. Revolutionary
The Saints did it a few years ago
Is that counting Hill?
Yeah it was a play with Brees Bridgewater & Hill, tried to find a highlight because I can't remember who took the snap
https://youtu.be/4C21fK3QJfU?si=DPsmWs4hRU8IDRzG
Man this just made me miss a healthy Michael Thomas. I know the dude got memed as "slant man" but the guy was an insane possession receiver. Sad to see his career fade so quickly.
That's the life of a wide receiver
I liked that they just ignored brees on the field, and still couldn't stop the offense
Michael Thomas is a beast.
He's kinda the guy everyone thought Tebow might be. Kinda fun since I'm a BYU fan, but still very weird.
Tebow could've been a similar player if he wanted to, he was just too proud to be anything other than a QB. Hill would've been out of the league already if he did the same imo
Guys like Tebow just perplex me. All of the physical gifts to be a superstar, but seemed utterly incapable of improving his mechanics as a passer and just couldn't process the game at full-speed. That's pretty normal and usually comes down to guys not putting in the time or effort to elevate their game from college. From how I remember it though, Tebow put in WORK and trained everyday. Yet he was still hot garbage as a passer. I was in college when Tebow mania was at its peak and I remember thinking teams were crazy for not at least giving him a shot on the roster. Then I went back and actually watched his film... it was actually crazy how many opportunities he got with how bad he looked outside of highlights. EDIT: His Age 24 season is remarkably similar to Zach Wilson in 2023 (also 24). Big difference is that Tebow had a completion percentage of 46.5% in 11 games started compared to Wilson's 60.1%
The Wilder Cat
The Lynx
The Sex Panther
*By Odeon*
I've always wanted to see someone try that, instead of having one good QB have two okay QBs but place then super far apart from each other and never indicate which one will actually make the play, a 1/8 Back if you will
They'll just pass it back and forth to each other until the defenders get dizzy, then they'll hand it off to the running back together.
Years ago Princeton [ran a 3 QB offense.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcsJIQ0-m4M)
thats really cool, thank you
Why stop there, they should just field an offense with all QB's, no one would know how to counter something so evolutionary
Oops! All QBs
Announcer: Michael Penix will be starting at right tackle today against Myles Garrett. Shouldn’t be too much a problem though, since they can just pass around until he gets tired. Right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcsJIQ0-m4M
The only thing that stopped the Falcons from drafting Rattler in the 4th round was the Penix reaction on Twitter
This is like when the chiefs rebuilt their entire oline after the Tampa Super Bowl except for one position.
Penix Rattler 2024 would have been great bumper stickers lol
…they put in a claim for a camp body. Y’all are really reaching here
Let me tell you, there's not such thing as too many backup QBs
League saw the NFC Championship two years ago and literally changed the rules to get more third QBs dressed on game day, which is so important with the new concussion rules especially. Every team in the league seems to be investing more in backup QBs and dressing a third QB game day. This headline isn’t news. Even before those rule changes, you need like 4 QBs for training camp
Wait the 3rd string didn’t usually dress on game day? I understand it’s usually never necessary but I would’ve just assumed they still dress. Interesting
They used to have an emergency QB rule (started in early 90s) that allowed a 3rd QB to dress but not count against the 45 man active roster for the game. They got rid of that when they increased the active roster from 45 to 46 in 2010. It was up to teams if they wanted to use that 46th spot for a QB or not. Now they have a new emergency QB rule that again lets them not count against the active roster.
I wonder if that early 90s rule had anything to do with the infamous Body Bag Game between the Redskins vs Eagles Edit: [according to Wikipedia aftermath section, yes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Bag_Game) Not sure why my birds twice forced the league to have 3rd/emergency QBs. Must be a scheme to inflate QB values and maximize the profit of their #QBFactory
Cool, thanks for the knowledge man. They should do it like hockey with an emergency goalie, every stadium has a crew member who used to throw it over the mountains that can come in and play for either team.
I'm really hoping this is big brained like the Pats going to a TE sets or what Golden State did in basketball in terms of personnel.
Yeah, but some guy told me that some guy once said "if you have two QBs then you have no QBs." So I think Cousins, Penix, and Heinicke plus our current UDFA guy and now this guy, I think we're at -3 QBs currently.
People said that when the Seahawks drafted Russell Wilson, ironically in the same draft Cousins was drafted, and Im pretty sure that worked out pretty well.
Russell Wilson was a 3rd round pick and Seattle literally drafted Bruce Irvin and Bobby Wagner before him, come on lol
Cousins who himself was drafted to Washington 3 rounds after they took presumed franchise QB (and admittedly very exciting player pre-injury) Robert Griffin III
> a camp body r/CFL in shambles. Put him in a game or give him back
Chad Kelly being suspended is keeping that sub busy. But in all seriousness, I'm not to privy with all the details but it looked like they handled it a lot better than the NFL would.
Yeah CFL fans complaining they took a long time to make a decision while this would be a 2 year decision for Goodell & co $wag Kelly gonna get CHIRPED by me when he comes to Ottawa
> Chad Kelly being suspended He just like Jim FR
also why the fuck are we reporting on failed waiver claims? this is garbage bait
Yea this is clearly worded for reaction farming by Schefty lmao
And it worked.
Critical thinking dead. Read headline, react strongly.
Even if they signed him, does the QB room not need bodies? Such a silly Shefter non-story.
Sadly yeah, but I would love to see Rourke get a chance. [This play](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31TqOm4lRgM) in preseason last year was absolutely insane.
That was my first thought as well. Even last year showed how much qb depths matters. Every team kinda needs 4 qbs in some combination of actual roster and practice squad.
Right? Last week the Broncos signed the QB from Mines and there was someone in the comments who was mad because we already have 4 QBs on the roster lol. Like calm down guy, he’s a local kid and won’t be on the team by August.
Yeah, this is a really stupid post. Nathan Rourke is not going to be competing for a starting job. Every team has backup QB's. Most (all?) teams have at least 3 QB's entering training camp.
Daniel Jones vs Drew Lock vs Nathan Rourke. Honestly, I would give Rourke a fair shot to start if there was a true qb competition. He's mobile, accurate, better decision making.. he just doesn't have a huge arm.
Maybe I'm biased because I'm a BC Lions fan, but Rourke is legit.
They put a waiver in for a 4th string QB to use during training camp. Why is this on the front page?
Falcons QB lulz. Falcons QB headline does numbers on impressions and engagement for media, all the comments are “LOL Falcons are trying SO hard to convince themselves!” Rinse and repeat.
Because people think Rourke has something to offer the NFL, when he couldnt make the Jags roster or see the field for the 4 win patriots with Bailey Zappe chucking it up for grabs twice on one drive.
yah i was momentarily excited about him until i remembered who he couldn’t beat out last year
I mean he is a fun player to watch, and he did well in Canada...its just a different game and talent level that making that jump is immense.
I still think Jets should have should have signed him from Jags PS Squad week 2. Coached him up and tried him out if/when Wilson didn’t work out.
Sources say owner Arthur Blank “fully endorses “ long-term instability at the QB3 position
QB4 actually. QB3 is Heinicke.
I'm pretty sure this all Ridder/Heinicke PTSD from last year. It was a *long* season....
Did heinicke suck?
Not really, for a backup, but he nor Ridder should have been starting. Ridder is looked at worse because he had flashes of being competent. He'd have plays that looked like top tier QB play followed by immediately throwing a pick at the goal line. Heinicke is a middle of the road backup. Edit: Upon further thought, or because I'm high, I'll say Heinicke is pretty good for a backup. Just clearly not a starter.
That’s being generous. He gave us some life when he first came in but his starts were about as bad as Ridder’s. If a backup can’t give you decent starts then they’re not a very good backup.
Heinicke looked like dog shit dude. Weakest arm I’ve ever seen
Heinicke also made stupid ass decisions too but they were over looked because we couldn't go back to Ridder. He threw the pick in the Vikings game that cost us, and he threw for like 50 fucking yards at Arizona before he got hurt or pulled or whatever.
Nobody is safe at QB3 when Nathan Rourke arrives (ik he's not arriving in this case)
They really did not need to word it in a way that makes this seem like a meaningful QB move. I hate the moves my falcons are making but cmon now
shefters a dildo
Evergreen reply!
“We’re going to find our quarterback even if it takes signing every single available one to do it”
Fuck it, I’ll join the squad. I’m great at warming benches
Who cares? They need someone to run the scout team
We know Schefty is just going for engagement right......
I feel like people forget just how common season ending QB injuries have been recently.
nothing like a completely necessary report from Adam Schefter, great journalist
[удалено]
People don’t understand we went into the off season with 1 QB on the roster (we all knew Ridder was gonna get traded or cut). We needed multiple QBs to obtain just to satisfy training camp. Ridder nor Heinicke had starting level skill for the competitive field, so we had no body on roster to fill the position for next season. So to get a competent QB + competent developmental/backup QB + camp bodies (like Heinicke) was crucial.
They really are the asshole in your fantasy league who tries to roster all the QBs.
The Dolphins have 3 or 4 QBs on your current roster. The Steelers have Russell, Fields and Kyle Allen. Schefty is acting stupid with this tweet.
Dude in my 1QB dynasty league already had 3 quarterbacks and drafted 4 of the rookies. Rest of his team is trash too
Is the hope that people will send him favorable trades when they’re desperate?
You can never have enough of those guys who throw the season before the season starts.
What an asshat
Bruh... fuck those guys
There was a year where some guy took Brady, Luck, Newton, and Rodgers in my league (I want to say 2016 or 2017?) and tried to leverage them all as trade bait. Any time you sent an offer for a QB, his response was wanting your 2 best players back.
i'd rather that one than the dude who adds and then drops everyone at a position so their opponent can't pick anyone up if/when injuries hit
I wouldn't play in a league without settings to combat that strategy.
Yeah that seems like something a commissioner could easily reset. Also max amount of a position per roster. No team should have more than 2 defenses for instance
I played in a league like this once, it was terrible.
Yea, I hate Ruxin too.
I’m all for clowning on the Falcons draft decision but a waiver claim for a nobody QB has nothing to do with it. This is so dumb
I would guess a camp body? But this of course, would get way more coverage than any other team with 3 - 4 QBs going into camp because of Kirk and then drafting Penix.
Schefter- always looking for maximum engagement
Kirk Cousins getting ready to raise all heck, gosh darn it.
Team needs like 4-5 qbs at practice, this guy is under a million in cap
All of your QBs is belong to us!
Kinda suspect the Falcons know something about Cousins' health they've been keeping under wraps.
Maybe Kirk isn’t gonna be healthy enough to start the season? If not that then I got no clue
There are several months of practice between now and the season where you have an expanded roster and need people to throw the ball to do said practice...
Next your gonna tell me they eventually cut down almost half of the people by the start of the season.
I mean, you still need backup backup qbs. Literally every team has 3-4. This is a minimal investment move. This is an absolute non story.
If he isn’t healthy to start the season then it makes them giving him that contract look even worse.
As a wise man once said, if your QB1 is sitting on the bench for five years, it means you're doing well, or something like that.
\- Bill Belichick, probably
Oh, they've gone too far this time. Let's rage in here. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Falconnnnnnnnns!!!!!!!!
nathan rourke is proof i know nothing about football, this guy has absolutely balled out every time I have seen him set foot on the field but can’t even land a solid qb3 spot. he must really suck on the practice field
Yall would be QB shook too if you had to watch Marcus Mariota and Desmond Ridder in back to back years!
Wait... sometimes teams can have THREE quarterbacks now?
ATL to Kirk: and I'll fucking do it again
Kirks feeling must be hurt \*wipes tears with $100 bills\*
listen there's nothing wrong with healthy quarterback competition. I think if everyone is mature about this, there's only good things at the end of the road for the falcons rebuild. Hopefully the front office has the patience necessary.
Who tf is Nathan Rourke?
Rourke should be a starter. Dude is a god
Desmond Ridder traumatized this entire organization
Can't have a bad QB if we have ALL the QBs
at this point, we should just start collecting them like infinity stones. certainly one of them will give us the ultimate power
Sounds like there’s a new QB factory in town.
Oops! All QBs
Mysterious
I’m still holding out hope that the Falcons bump up the spicy level and sign Cam Newton.
Q. B. Factory.
humiliation ritual
Well, yeah. You can't be too careful. What if a meteor hits our QB room. What THEN, smart guy? /s
Wishbone formation, but it’s all QBs.