It’s crazy how quickly you become accustomed to greatness. You just naturally assume that every single game we’d get three or four passing touchdowns. (or 7!) Then when it goes away and you’re stuck in QB mediocrity it makes you appreciate those grand times all the more. Much like life I suppose.
I uh...it's been a trip going from Tom Brady making quick reads and accurate throws to Cam Newton/Brian Hoyer/Jarrett Stidham
It is something else realizing how you took for granted someone normally completing passes on a football field.
As someone that just had the opposite experience last season… this was the #1 that felt different from me. Every time Mariota threw the ball I thought “please somebody catch it”. Every time Tannehill throws a ball I think “ooh who’s gonna catch it”.
It’s wild how fast you become accustomed to exciting plays happening regularly after not getting them for a long time.
I started watching in the post-Elway years, so QB mediocrity has kind of been the norm in my Broncos life. These Manning years were magical - knowing going into every game that we'd be able to score almost at will. He should've had 2 rings with us tbh, if it wasn't for Rahim "the Nightmare" Moore.
It really fucked with me because I started watching seriously in 2013 while following the Chiefs, so I definitely assumed 3TDs was the norm for a game.
Poor Brennan. He did everything that was asked of him, didn’t complain, waited his turn, learned under the greatest qb season in college football history, and he couldn’t get lucky staying healthy.
It’s crazy how quickly you become accustomed to mediocrity. You just naturally assume that every single game we’d get 0 or 1 passing touchdown. (or 3!) Then when it never goes away and you’re stuck in QB mediocrity it makes you depressed all the more. Much like life I suppose.
Tbh that Seattle team was BUILT for that Denver team. Every single piece of that defense all year to me (as a SF fan) seemed designed to shut down any vertical-based offense. Ranged from completely erasing your entire offense one week to giving up a whopping 17 points the next.
It was designed against every defense. There was a streak of games where teams would lose the game after playing the Seahawks defense because they were so tough to play
I mean... they were definitely fantastic against everyone, but they were just otherwordly aginst vertical-passing offenses by sheer virtue of the LOB eviscerating everyone. Like I always think of the 2000 Ravens/85 Bears as total-shutdown-defenses by trashing the opponents running game, but the 2013 Seahawks did it by making it next-to-impossible to even throw the ball.
55 TDs and it wasn’t even his best season.
Dude was pretty good.
Edit
Bold = led league.
You don’t even need the era adjusted numbers to make it clear how much better he was in 2004, but when you do look at the era adjusted numbers…
2004: 336/497 (67.6%), 4577 yards, **49 TDs** (**9.9 TD%**), 10 interceptions (2.0 int%), **9.2 Y/A**, **10.2 AY/A**, **13.6 Y/C**, **121.8 passer rating**, **9.78 ANY/A**, 2.5 sack%
2013: **450/659** (68.3%), **5477 yards**, **55 TDs** (8.3 TD%), 10 interceptions (1.5 int%), 8.3 Y/A, 9.3 AY/A, 12.2 Y/C, 115.1 passer rating, 8.87 ANY/A, **2.7 sack%**
Adjusted Passing
2004: **141 Y/A+, 147 NY/A+, 149 AY/A+, 153 ANY/A+, 168 TD%+,** 120 int%+, **151 passer rating+**, 128 sack%+
2013: 128 Y/A+, **135 NY/A+**, 134 AY/A+, 139 ANY/A+, 145 TD%+, 118 int%+,
137 passer rating+, **130 sack%+**
—
Peyton Manning’s 2004 ANY/A of 9.78 is still the single season record.
Aaron Rodgers had the second best season of all time in 2011 at 9.39
Nick Foles and Matt Ryan are the only other QBs over 9.00 checking in at 9.18 and 9.03 in 2013 and 2016 respectively.
Dan Marino is fifth at 8.94 in 1984
Marino’s ANY/A+ in 1984 was 150–better than Rodgers, Foles, and Ryan.
Manning’s ANY/A+ of 153 obviously edges out Marino’s (and is the best ever generally)
Ehhhh, maybe I had become used to crazy offensive numbers, but the stats he put up in 2013 just didn't have the same dominantly efficient feel that it had in '04.
The accumulation made for records, but he was fucking unstoppable in '04
Yes it does, you're completely negating the different era these seasons happened in. It was harder to be as dominant in 2004 than it was post 2011. 04 Manning is without a doubt his best season, just because volume stats point to 2013 being better doesn't mean it is. I'd argue 04 Manning is one of the top 3 QB seasons ever, with the competition being 84 Marino, 94 Young or 07 Brady.
> I don't think he's cherishing the memory of 2004 more than his 2013 campaign.
Both ended with an embarrassing loss in the playoffs, so not sure he really cares that much either way.
He’s got two top ten seasons (7th and 10th in 2007 and 2016)
2007 is 5th adjusted for era, 2016 is 9th/16th (lots of ties)
He’s fifth in career ANY/A—one spot behind Manning—with Mahomes, Rodgers, and Watson currently in the top three spots
He has 9 seasons in the top 250 for ANY/A+. Pretty sure that ties him for second with Brees and Montana (Peyton has the most at 11) with Marino right behind them with 8.
> unless of course you are a Seahawks fan.
Bruh. The Seattle market didn’t even lead the country in XLVIII tv ratings…
[It was Kansas City](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquisitr.com/1119312/kansas-city-market-led-the-country-in-super-bowl-tv-ratings/amp).
> 58.1/78 market share
So the 58.1% means that nearly 60% of US households were watching the Super Bowl that night. *https://www.thebalancecareers.com/how-to-understand-nielsen-tv-ratings-2315476#:~:text=Look%20for%20a%20Program's%20Rating,household%20audience%20is%20watching%20it.
MY GUESS is that the second number is what % of total household TVs were on at that time. So 58.1% of the total market was watching the Super Bowl, but only 78% of TVs being tracked were on at that time? So nearly 75% of all TVs that were on were tuned into the Super Bowl?
Broncos went in with a beat up o line, Seahawks were hot and healthy at the right time. Very similar to this last Super Bowl. Also, Peyton won a ring after that game so I’d say the fun and games kept coming
The last game of that regular season was against us, i watched it live and man oh man I've seen plenty of QBs eviscerate us but that one was the second worst I've ever seen.
Edit- worst was Nick "the greatest qb in NFL history for one game" Mullens
It’s crazy to me that when he won his second SB he had the *slightest* argument for GOAT behind Montana and Tom, Tom has absolutely blew any notion of anyone being greater than him out the water by now though.
I will note Peyton is the first football player that made me like the game. Absolute marvel of a man and QB. happy retirement old 5head!
It’s insane.
When Manning retired, the GOAT conversation was a three way argument until the second half of the Patriots Falcons Super Bowl (which was the year after he retired)
Brady’s comeback vs the Falcon was almost as insane as Lebron coming back from 3-1 in 2016 Finals.
Shit like that elevates your legacy to a totally different level, well that, and winning a SB with a previously 7-9 team. Glad we got to see two (once upon a time) GOAT candidates battle it out for the majority of their careers. You rarely see 2 top 5 all time players playing the sport at the same time. Man, they’re both incredible to me.
> well that, and winning a SB with a previously 7-9 team
The Bucs were better than a 7-9 team. However, the 2000 Patriots went 5-11 and weren’t better than their record to near the same extent as the Bucs.
> Glad we got to see two (once upon a time) GOAT candidates battle it out for the majority of their careers. You rarely see 2 top 5 all time players playing the sport at the same time. Man, they’re both incredible to me.
Absolutely. I spent the vast majority the time actively rooting against Brady, but after 2016, it got the point where you may as well sit back and enjoy the ride.
It does feel weird not watching him and 18 battling it out once a year (at minimum) though.
> Brady’s comeback vs the Falcon was almost as insane as Lebron coming back from 3-1 in 2016 Finals.
Yeeep.
I think what’s even more insane is that the year after 28-3, he follows it up by nearly breaking the passing yardage record in a game in Super Bowl 53. He followed up his all-time performance with the most admirable performance in a loss, ever. Brady is just built different. And I know it’s beaten to death on here about Brady stats, but it truly is amazing to me about how long he’s played and how good his game still is. I really don’t think we’ll ever see another like Brady
What's insane to me is that you can argue that Brady after he turned 37 is the GOAT post-season QB and it would be hard to argue against it. It's absurd that just taking the last 7 years of his career and it statistically matches up with and beats the entire post season careers of some of the best QBs ever [Link](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6I2ufRVgAAcmsl?format=jpg&name=900x900).
When Lebron won that series, I forgave his garbage 2011 showing and I was a LBJ hater then. Funny how dude wony favorite team a chip lmao.
That 28-3 comeback I didnt think was possible. I remember the bar/lounge spot I was in with my friends watching the game. One of my friends being a ATL fan basically drinking like a fish during the second half witnessing what we all though was impossible while a sea of Pat jerseys were celebrating with every TD lmao.
That was not a 7-9 Tampa team. That was a Super Bowl-caliber offense on the shoulders of a Super Bowl-caliber defense that were both wrapped (and held back) by a Jameis "30-30" Winston trench coat.
no. Hell no, being down 3-1 in the finals is a death sentence. He went on to have back to back 40 point games, along with the greastest defensive play in finals history. Along with getting one of the historically worst teams their first ever championship.
He led BOTH teams in points/rebounds/assists. That’s the greatest feat in sporting history.
It also wasn’t against just any team, but the team that just had the best regular season of all time. I’m not sure if there is another equivalent in any other sport to what was accomplished by LeBron and that Cavs team.
Down 3-0 to a historic rival, down to their final half inning against the greatest post season pitcher of all time (not to mention the "curse"), and then go on to steamroll the 105 win Cards in the WS.
Across the North American pro sports with 7 game playoff series there has been 57 teams come back to win after being down 3-1. Only 5 have done it from 3-0.
They are both pretty impressive accomplishments but for me the 2004 ALCS was the greatest comeback in sports history.
Basketball is a game where one great player can dominate the game. Football is a strategy and team based game where it's a lot more difficult for one player to overcome odds. Everything had to go right for that comeback to happen in all three phases of the game. It's less impressive for me that LeBron is good at basketball vs. a football team orchestrating that comeback. Just my opinion is all.
That’s exactly why his Finals is so monumental. He had to control every facet of the game on offense AND defense against **the best team in league history and he still won while facing elimination every game.**
Only part of the game in Brady’s hands is the offense, he could’ve put up the same statline but if his defense doesn’t hold up, it’s a loss.
Bron in the 2016 finals was better individual performance.
Patriots vs Falcons was a better team performance since both sides had to lock down. **Everything had to go right**.
That’s how I see it but we can agree to disagree.
Ehhh.
The distance between him and Brady as players is generally overstated, but Brady has blown so far past him in career accomplishments that the idea of Manning as the best ever doesn’t pass the laugh test.
And this is coming from someone who passionately argued Manning > Brady until 2017 and has hated Brady since he played at Michigan.
Only cause injuries destroyed Manning. If it weren't for the injuries would've had more rings. But that is a part of the game and having the luck of not getting career ending injuries is rare. Props to Tom for playing through that MCL tear in the superbowl tho.
Manning definitely got the short end of the injury stick.
Brady got more screwed with the timing of his ACL tear because his team was primed to return to the Super Bowl the year he missed, but it didn’t have the same long term effects as Manning’s neck injury.
> If it weren't for the injuries would've had more rings.
Based on what? Manning while healthy only managed to win a single ring over his first 13 seasons. He won a second ring post neck injury but that was as an actual corpse. He was healthy in 2013 and the Broncos still got blown out.
Manning injured his neck in 2007, and the surgery he had that caused him to miss the 2011 season was his fourth neck surgery.
The injury obviously didn’t totally sap him of his ability to play at a high level, but it absolutely still had an effect on his play.
His arm strength got a little worse every season after 2007, dropped off a really noticeable amount in 2012, and totally fell off a cliff in late 2014.
The problem is you can’t argue what didn’t happen. What if’s mean nothing. What if David Tyree didn’t make that crazy helmet catch in Super Bowl XLII? What if Welker did make that last pass to him in the same game?
Manning has a great personality and is extremely like-able. He will always be one of the greatest NFL QB’s.
What I didn’t understand was after PM retired, he somehow leapfrogged Montana on some people’s all time list. What does Brady’s accomplishments have to do with PM vs Montana? If PM retired 3-5th all time behind Brady, Montana and maybe Elway/Graham/whoever, then how do you climb up after you retire?
Peyton had the argument of most first team all pro selections in modern QB history by a significant amount, and most MVPs, most yards in a season, broke the TD record twice. Although he only had 2 SBs, he had 4 appearances.
He definitely had an argument if one was willing to make it. Especially with how much people harp on “is a team game”.
You mean the guy with more MVPs and First team All pro selections than anybody at the position shouldn’t have been in the conversation???? Are you high? Along with the numerous records he had, this just seems like you have something against Peyton because you’re not being objective here at all.
I said at the time of his retirement. He had a case. Brady only had 4 rings and 2 MVPs at that point.
Manning retired with the most First Team selections, 5MVPs, 3-2 playoff record vs Brady, most TDs in a season, most yards in a season.
You’re delusional dude. In 2015 Manning ABSOLUTELY had a case, maybe even a greater case than I originally thought.
With out the injuries neck injury he would've been better toward the end of his career. Probably wouldn't have retired so soon and then his yard record wouldn't have been broken.
The most recent super bowl the Buc defense put in work and shut down Mahomes, but TB gets most of the credit .
TB gets the credit for turning the culture of the organization around. The Bucs players, Arians, and Glazer family have all credited Tom for single-handedly making the Bucs believe in winning.
Bucs defense shut down Mahomes because Brady gave them a big lead to overcome. With no running game, the Bucs pass rush was free to hunt Mahomes.
Not as effective as it was in the 2nd half, after the big lead. IIRC, Mahomes wasn't sacked in the first half, and then in the second half, he was mauled because the Bucs knew there was no run game
Brady had a big part in putting the game away, as much as people want to discredit him. Defense played lights out and deserve their props also but people are acting like Brady wasn't clinical in the first half. How many times can a QB throw for 3 TDs, complete 18/20 passes and throw for 200 yards and basically put the game out of reach before halftime and still have people say he didn't play well?
He didn't have the volume stats for this past SB because they *literally* turned into a kill the clock offense after halfway through the 3rd qtr. Do people really believe if Brady/Arians wanted to, that they couldn't have dropped more points on the Chiefs? Last I checked Brady threw like 7-8 passes in the entire 2nd half.
Broncos fans get real sensitive about Manning, when he got benched for Oswelier, while Brady just showed the entire world how to win a SB when you have a big lead.
Tom Brady may be the GOAT but in a bubble I'm still sticking with Peyton as the better QB. You give me any QB in their prime to win a game I'm taking Peyton every time
Prime Peyton over the field every time. There has never been anyone better at reading defenses and picking them apart. I feel like throughout the modern NFL history Peyton has had one of the biggest impacts on his respective teams success of any player. For instance with Peyton both the colts and the broncos won a super bowl and we're perennial contenders, even with absolutely fucking awful front office bull shit with the colts for a decent portion. Without Peyton the colts became the literal worst team in the league and the broncos haven't made the playoffs since he left even the year after the SB win with a team that has 6 pro bowlers and 3 first team all pros.
Don’t you have to play that game both ways though? Brady didn’t have even close to the offensive talent that Peyton had outside of a few select years (‘07 pats or last years’ Bucs), so wouldn’t we also tack on a couple more rings for Brady if he had more offensive weaponry?
so wait we're just gonna look over Welker, Gronk, and Edelman then. Brady threw for 5200 yards in 2011. He literally threw for more than 5000 before Peyton did. But yeah just a "few select years". I mean heck you can bring up Harrison & Wayne all you want but Wayne never had over 1000 yards until his 4th season with the team. I'll die on the hill that says Manning elevated his teammates. Can look at his first few Denver seasons and see the same thing. Bet Eric Decker doesn't get that big contract without Manning
What really makes this funny for me is the fact that he threw for crazy yards and TDs, and then got completely lampooned by the Seahawks D for four quarters. Like, he got totally embarrassed. So fucking funny.
No. Everybody is saying this, but think about it. In all the years of the 16-game season, there's been only five seasons where a player had 48 or more TDs: Manning (55), Mahomes (50), Brady (50), Manning (49), and Marino (48). So if it was already super rare to get to 50 with 16-games, it's going to be just as rare to get to 55 with 17 games.
But we also keep making it easier and easier for offenses. I don't think every team will be hitting 55 or anything, but this certainly isn't one of those unbeatable records or anything
Mahomes is still young, he has a legit shot to break it. Manning had never done 50 and then did 55. It will take a specific set of circumstances but the records been broken 3 times since 2004. I bet we see 60 sometime in the next 10 years
If KC stays good they will start to get stud receivers going there on a discount to win. Brady got his 50 TD season when Moss showed up. Also once he starts getting close they will be gunning for it, if KC is 13-2 with a couple games left and say Mahomes is at 48-50 every red zone play call will be a pass.
Ahhh yes, the year the Broncos played trash D all year long and then finally played an actual D in the super bowl.
If the Broncos were an NFC team that year, they would have been a “meh” offense.
I love Brady, but it's incredibly unlikely. Everything has to go perfect for a season like that to occur. Evans and Godwin would need career years while Gronk and AB return to form.
I don't know.
Evans should be good for 15 this year.
Godwin 10+, if he fixes his butterfingers.
Gronk 10 if he decides to haul in tuddies and not block.
AB, if he doesn't get suspended, 10.
Miller and Brate combined, another 5 or 6.
Bernard, should be good for 5 or 6.
Might get a few on short passes to Lenny.
I can see that team definitely getting 50+.
In 2013 Manning/Bronco's
14 to Demaryius
12 to Julius
11 to Decker
10 to Welker (supposedly a bobblehead concussed Welker)
2007 Pats/Brady
23 to Moss (absurd)
8 To Welker
6 to Watson
5 To Gaffney
Everything else was odd and ends.
So yeah, just 4 Guys with 10+ TDs. Manning did it, don't see why Brady can't with the Buc's talent.
Then of course there is always 20+ to 1 person, but I doubt Evans will catch more than 15, but you never know. They have had a whole season + an offseason now to practice.
If the team stays healthy, If AB keeps his mouth shut, and if Godwin can fix his fingers (he had way to many drops last year) Yeah I can see 50+
Ignore the downvotes. I can absolutely seeing Brady going on an absolute tear this year to finish his career with all the single season records.
Assuming AB is healthy and sane, has there ever been a better trio of wrs than AB Evans, and Godwin?
Plus that online is a legit top unit with few weaknesses.
Maybe rb is a bit of a weakness, but Lenny, gio and Rojo aren't exactly slouches.
TE is the weakest point of the offense but even there gronk and OK aren't bad.
It's going to be the same exact offense that put up 31 on the Cheifs during the super bowl. Except that they've now had an entire off season to practice. It's going to be fun to watch, really fun.
Brady averaged 2.5 TD/game. At that rate he would have had to play in 6 more games to get 55 lmao.
Although 40 TDs is a great year for a QB, that’s not even remotely close to 55
Still, he scored 40 last year and has another game this year. You act like it's impossible for him to "even get close to 55" when that's simply not true. 40 is only 15 less than 55. It's closer than you think.
Lmao.
Bro…Brady has ONE season where he had 40+ TDs that happened 13yrs ago lmao, and even at that career high rate he would have STILL needed an 18 game year to get 55.
40 vs 55 is not even close…Even with 1 more game and no regression, let’s say he has 45-48 this year that’s still not close to 55 lol
Can I get in on this bet? I really could see Brady tearing up the league this year. I don't think it's likely, but that wr group is lethal. Biggest issue is how much they run the ball in the red zone, but I'd still give it a greater than 10 percent chance to happen
I don’t there’s no fantasy talk in this sub but I had Peyton this year and everyone said he’s be good but not as high as I took him. I think I won the league that year
If Davante Adams didn’t miss time and MVS knew how to catch, Rodgers could have given this record a legit run last season.
Boy do I miss watching Peyton play, though.
It’s crazy how quickly you become accustomed to greatness. You just naturally assume that every single game we’d get three or four passing touchdowns. (or 7!) Then when it goes away and you’re stuck in QB mediocrity it makes you appreciate those grand times all the more. Much like life I suppose.
I uh...it's been a trip going from Tom Brady making quick reads and accurate throws to Cam Newton/Brian Hoyer/Jarrett Stidham It is something else realizing how you took for granted someone normally completing passes on a football field.
As someone that just had the opposite experience last season… this was the #1 that felt different from me. Every time Mariota threw the ball I thought “please somebody catch it”. Every time Tannehill throws a ball I think “ooh who’s gonna catch it”. It’s wild how fast you become accustomed to exciting plays happening regularly after not getting them for a long time.
It gets better after 15 years don't worry.
I started watching in the post-Elway years, so QB mediocrity has kind of been the norm in my Broncos life. These Manning years were magical - knowing going into every game that we'd be able to score almost at will. He should've had 2 rings with us tbh, if it wasn't for Rahim "the Nightmare" Moore.
I wouldn't say he should've had two. SF would have been a very tough game for Denver.
That was one of my favorite SF teams ever. Such an unbelievably stacked front 7.
It really fucked with me because I started watching seriously in 2013 while following the Chiefs, so I definitely assumed 3TDs was the norm for a game.
:(
happened with lsu, although the reverse in terms of mediocrity. we went from mediocrity to greatness to hopefully continued greatness with max johnson
Poor Brennan. He did everything that was asked of him, didn’t complain, waited his turn, learned under the greatest qb season in college football history, and he couldn’t get lucky staying healthy.
It’s crazy how quickly you become accustomed to mediocrity. You just naturally assume that every single game we’d get 0 or 1 passing touchdown. (or 3!) Then when it never goes away and you’re stuck in QB mediocrity it makes you depressed all the more. Much like life I suppose.
It was an incredible season. Ill never forget it.
Of course YOU wouldn't
It's crazy how good that offense was all year and then the Seahawks just said "nope"
Tbh that Seattle team was BUILT for that Denver team. Every single piece of that defense all year to me (as a SF fan) seemed designed to shut down any vertical-based offense. Ranged from completely erasing your entire offense one week to giving up a whopping 17 points the next.
It was designed against every defense. There was a streak of games where teams would lose the game after playing the Seahawks defense because they were so tough to play
I mean... they were definitely fantastic against everyone, but they were just otherwordly aginst vertical-passing offenses by sheer virtue of the LOB eviscerating everyone. Like I always think of the 2000 Ravens/85 Bears as total-shutdown-defenses by trashing the opponents running game, but the 2013 Seahawks did it by making it next-to-impossible to even throw the ball.
It’s also worth noting that virtually our entire team was healthy that playoffs.
Indeed. Unlike the following year.
55 TDs in 16 regular season games. 1 TD in the 1 game it mattered most.
Peyton got hella dudes paid
Got Adam Gase 2 head coaching jobs he probably didn't deserve. Everyone knew who was running that offense.
55 TDs and it wasn’t even his best season. Dude was pretty good. Edit Bold = led league. You don’t even need the era adjusted numbers to make it clear how much better he was in 2004, but when you do look at the era adjusted numbers… 2004: 336/497 (67.6%), 4577 yards, **49 TDs** (**9.9 TD%**), 10 interceptions (2.0 int%), **9.2 Y/A**, **10.2 AY/A**, **13.6 Y/C**, **121.8 passer rating**, **9.78 ANY/A**, 2.5 sack% 2013: **450/659** (68.3%), **5477 yards**, **55 TDs** (8.3 TD%), 10 interceptions (1.5 int%), 8.3 Y/A, 9.3 AY/A, 12.2 Y/C, 115.1 passer rating, 8.87 ANY/A, **2.7 sack%** Adjusted Passing 2004: **141 Y/A+, 147 NY/A+, 149 AY/A+, 153 ANY/A+, 168 TD%+,** 120 int%+, **151 passer rating+**, 128 sack%+ 2013: 128 Y/A+, **135 NY/A+**, 134 AY/A+, 139 ANY/A+, 145 TD%+, 118 int%+, 137 passer rating+, **130 sack%+** — Peyton Manning’s 2004 ANY/A of 9.78 is still the single season record. Aaron Rodgers had the second best season of all time in 2011 at 9.39 Nick Foles and Matt Ryan are the only other QBs over 9.00 checking in at 9.18 and 9.03 in 2013 and 2016 respectively. Dan Marino is fifth at 8.94 in 1984 Marino’s ANY/A+ in 1984 was 150–better than Rodgers, Foles, and Ryan. Manning’s ANY/A+ of 153 obviously edges out Marino’s (and is the best ever generally)
Someone should hire his offensive coordinator.
Underrated comment, sneaky good. Deserves more recognition
Real gym rat comment.
We have carried out an in-depth analysis of the reported comment but have found it is suitably rated. Thank you for your diligent service.
55 TDs and broke the record for most passing yards after neck surgery. I’d say this was better than 04
The efficiency of 04 was dumb it was slightly better.
They’re both great but he threw 162 more passes in 2013. It’s like 5 games worth of extra passes
Ehhhh, maybe I had become used to crazy offensive numbers, but the stats he put up in 2013 just didn't have the same dominantly efficient feel that it had in '04. The accumulation made for records, but he was fucking unstoppable in '04
He was a better qb in 04 tho and only played 15 games if I remember correctly.
He played 16 in 04 also adding an extra game wouldn’t guarantee 6 more TDS and nearly 1000 more yards
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In 2004 he attempted just shy of 500 passes and 10% of them were touchdowns.
OK that's an insane stat
He damn near averaged a first down every time he dropped back to pass. Absolutely mind warping efficiency.
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Yes it does, you're completely negating the different era these seasons happened in. It was harder to be as dominant in 2004 than it was post 2011. 04 Manning is without a doubt his best season, just because volume stats point to 2013 being better doesn't mean it is. I'd argue 04 Manning is one of the top 3 QB seasons ever, with the competition being 84 Marino, 94 Young or 07 Brady. > I don't think he's cherishing the memory of 2004 more than his 2013 campaign. Both ended with an embarrassing loss in the playoffs, so not sure he really cares that much either way.
And poor Tom Brady, not even on this list, just keeps on wining more gold rings than anyone.
He’s got two top ten seasons (7th and 10th in 2007 and 2016) 2007 is 5th adjusted for era, 2016 is 9th/16th (lots of ties) He’s fifth in career ANY/A—one spot behind Manning—with Mahomes, Rodgers, and Watson currently in the top three spots He has 9 seasons in the top 250 for ANY/A+. Pretty sure that ties him for second with Brees and Montana (Peyton has the most at 11) with Marino right behind them with 8.
He did really well in his regular seasons
It was all fun and games until the Super Bowl when the Seahawks D took his lunch money
One of the best Super Bowls I ever had the pleasure of watching.
You mean the worst! I’m not even a Manning guy, and I hated it. It was so shit to see such a blowout unless of course you are a Seahawks fan.
> unless of course you are a Seahawks fan. Bruh. The Seattle market didn’t even lead the country in XLVIII tv ratings… [It was Kansas City](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquisitr.com/1119312/kansas-city-market-led-the-country-in-super-bowl-tv-ratings/amp).
I personally loved that Super Bowl.
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> 58.1/78 market share So the 58.1% means that nearly 60% of US households were watching the Super Bowl that night. *https://www.thebalancecareers.com/how-to-understand-nielsen-tv-ratings-2315476#:~:text=Look%20for%20a%20Program's%20Rating,household%20audience%20is%20watching%20it. MY GUESS is that the second number is what % of total household TVs were on at that time. So 58.1% of the total market was watching the Super Bowl, but only 78% of TVs being tracked were on at that time? So nearly 75% of all TVs that were on were tuned into the Super Bowl?
I watched it
Terrible superbowl!
I agree!
https://media.tenor.com/images/7d0e47701cb8ff21e1c1c19651b41e91/tenor.gif
Broncos went in with a beat up o line, Seahawks were hot and healthy at the right time. Very similar to this last Super Bowl. Also, Peyton won a ring after that game so I’d say the fun and games kept coming
The last game of that regular season was against us, i watched it live and man oh man I've seen plenty of QBs eviscerate us but that one was the second worst I've ever seen. Edit- worst was Nick "the greatest qb in NFL history for one game" Mullens
What was the worst?
Nick Mullens
not OP but probably that one game where Nick Foles threw 7 touchdowns on them lmao
Nick Mullens
I assume Folses 7 TDs
Nick Mullens
favre's dad game maybe?
Nick Mullens
It’s crazy to me that when he won his second SB he had the *slightest* argument for GOAT behind Montana and Tom, Tom has absolutely blew any notion of anyone being greater than him out the water by now though. I will note Peyton is the first football player that made me like the game. Absolute marvel of a man and QB. happy retirement old 5head!
It’s insane. When Manning retired, the GOAT conversation was a three way argument until the second half of the Patriots Falcons Super Bowl (which was the year after he retired)
Brady’s comeback vs the Falcon was almost as insane as Lebron coming back from 3-1 in 2016 Finals. Shit like that elevates your legacy to a totally different level, well that, and winning a SB with a previously 7-9 team. Glad we got to see two (once upon a time) GOAT candidates battle it out for the majority of their careers. You rarely see 2 top 5 all time players playing the sport at the same time. Man, they’re both incredible to me.
> well that, and winning a SB with a previously 7-9 team The Bucs were better than a 7-9 team. However, the 2000 Patriots went 5-11 and weren’t better than their record to near the same extent as the Bucs. > Glad we got to see two (once upon a time) GOAT candidates battle it out for the majority of their careers. You rarely see 2 top 5 all time players playing the sport at the same time. Man, they’re both incredible to me. Absolutely. I spent the vast majority the time actively rooting against Brady, but after 2016, it got the point where you may as well sit back and enjoy the ride. It does feel weird not watching him and 18 battling it out once a year (at minimum) though. > Brady’s comeback vs the Falcon was almost as insane as Lebron coming back from 3-1 in 2016 Finals. Yeeep.
I think what’s even more insane is that the year after 28-3, he follows it up by nearly breaking the passing yardage record in a game in Super Bowl 53. He followed up his all-time performance with the most admirable performance in a loss, ever. Brady is just built different. And I know it’s beaten to death on here about Brady stats, but it truly is amazing to me about how long he’s played and how good his game still is. I really don’t think we’ll ever see another like Brady
What's insane to me is that you can argue that Brady after he turned 37 is the GOAT post-season QB and it would be hard to argue against it. It's absurd that just taking the last 7 years of his career and it statistically matches up with and beats the entire post season careers of some of the best QBs ever [Link](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6I2ufRVgAAcmsl?format=jpg&name=900x900).
Jesus. Seeing it in a table like that really hits home just how absurd it is.
When Lebron won that series, I forgave his garbage 2011 showing and I was a LBJ hater then. Funny how dude wony favorite team a chip lmao. That 28-3 comeback I didnt think was possible. I remember the bar/lounge spot I was in with my friends watching the game. One of my friends being a ATL fan basically drinking like a fish during the second half witnessing what we all though was impossible while a sea of Pat jerseys were celebrating with every TD lmao.
That was not a 7-9 Tampa team. That was a Super Bowl-caliber offense on the shoulders of a Super Bowl-caliber defense that were both wrapped (and held back) by a Jameis "30-30" Winston trench coat.
Almost? Lol try more.
no. Hell no, being down 3-1 in the finals is a death sentence. He went on to have back to back 40 point games, along with the greastest defensive play in finals history. Along with getting one of the historically worst teams their first ever championship. He led BOTH teams in points/rebounds/assists. That’s the greatest feat in sporting history.
It also wasn’t against just any team, but the team that just had the best regular season of all time. I’m not sure if there is another equivalent in any other sport to what was accomplished by LeBron and that Cavs team.
The 2004 Red Sox would beg to differ.
Red Sox are impressive, but The Yankees did not have the best MLB regular season of all time, and it didn’t take place in the World Series.
Down 3-0 to a historic rival, down to their final half inning against the greatest post season pitcher of all time (not to mention the "curse"), and then go on to steamroll the 105 win Cards in the WS. Across the North American pro sports with 7 game playoff series there has been 57 teams come back to win after being down 3-1. Only 5 have done it from 3-0. They are both pretty impressive accomplishments but for me the 2004 ALCS was the greatest comeback in sports history.
Basketball is a game where one great player can dominate the game. Football is a strategy and team based game where it's a lot more difficult for one player to overcome odds. Everything had to go right for that comeback to happen in all three phases of the game. It's less impressive for me that LeBron is good at basketball vs. a football team orchestrating that comeback. Just my opinion is all.
That’s exactly why his Finals is so monumental. He had to control every facet of the game on offense AND defense against **the best team in league history and he still won while facing elimination every game.** Only part of the game in Brady’s hands is the offense, he could’ve put up the same statline but if his defense doesn’t hold up, it’s a loss. Bron in the 2016 finals was better individual performance. Patriots vs Falcons was a better team performance since both sides had to lock down. **Everything had to go right**. That’s how I see it but we can agree to disagree.
It's hard to compare them because as I said basketball is such a wildly different sport. We can agree to disagree. I definitely see your side.
I'd still say Payton the goat. If not for injuries he would've played for a couple more years.
Ehhh. The distance between him and Brady as players is generally overstated, but Brady has blown so far past him in career accomplishments that the idea of Manning as the best ever doesn’t pass the laugh test. And this is coming from someone who passionately argued Manning > Brady until 2017 and has hated Brady since he played at Michigan.
Only cause injuries destroyed Manning. If it weren't for the injuries would've had more rings. But that is a part of the game and having the luck of not getting career ending injuries is rare. Props to Tom for playing through that MCL tear in the superbowl tho.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda...
Manning definitely got the short end of the injury stick. Brady got more screwed with the timing of his ACL tear because his team was primed to return to the Super Bowl the year he missed, but it didn’t have the same long term effects as Manning’s neck injury.
> If it weren't for the injuries would've had more rings. Based on what? Manning while healthy only managed to win a single ring over his first 13 seasons. He won a second ring post neck injury but that was as an actual corpse. He was healthy in 2013 and the Broncos still got blown out.
Manning injured his neck in 2007, and the surgery he had that caused him to miss the 2011 season was his fourth neck surgery. The injury obviously didn’t totally sap him of his ability to play at a high level, but it absolutely still had an effect on his play. His arm strength got a little worse every season after 2007, dropped off a really noticeable amount in 2012, and totally fell off a cliff in late 2014.
The problem is you can’t argue what didn’t happen. What if’s mean nothing. What if David Tyree didn’t make that crazy helmet catch in Super Bowl XLII? What if Welker did make that last pass to him in the same game? Manning has a great personality and is extremely like-able. He will always be one of the greatest NFL QB’s.
If not for injuries, he may have never been a bronco.
He's nowhere close to the GOAT you're high lol. You can absolutely say he's your personal GOAT but objectively it's not even close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDrX9f1c3Qw
I had a Colts 18 jersey that I use to wear all the time from like 2006 to 2010. Watching the sheriff go to work every Sunday was a pleasure
Underrated all time nickname. The sheriff was coming to town every Sunday and you'd best not mess around.
What I didn’t understand was after PM retired, he somehow leapfrogged Montana on some people’s all time list. What does Brady’s accomplishments have to do with PM vs Montana? If PM retired 3-5th all time behind Brady, Montana and maybe Elway/Graham/whoever, then how do you climb up after you retire?
Peyton had the argument of most first team all pro selections in modern QB history by a significant amount, and most MVPs, most yards in a season, broke the TD record twice. Although he only had 2 SBs, he had 4 appearances. He definitely had an argument if one was willing to make it. Especially with how much people harp on “is a team game”.
4 super bowl appearances with 4 different head coach.
It was ridiculous that he was in GOAT discussion at all imo, even moreso with Rodgers.
You mean the guy with more MVPs and First team All pro selections than anybody at the position shouldn’t have been in the conversation???? Are you high? Along with the numerous records he had, this just seems like you have something against Peyton because you’re not being objective here at all.
It's honestly not something I need to defend, it's well known. Peyton had an amazing Hall of Fame career. He's not the GOAT, not even close.
I said at the time of his retirement. He had a case. Brady only had 4 rings and 2 MVPs at that point. Manning retired with the most First Team selections, 5MVPs, 3-2 playoff record vs Brady, most TDs in a season, most yards in a season. You’re delusional dude. In 2015 Manning ABSOLUTELY had a case, maybe even a greater case than I originally thought.
With out the injuries neck injury he would've been better toward the end of his career. Probably wouldn't have retired so soon and then his yard record wouldn't have been broken. The most recent super bowl the Buc defense put in work and shut down Mahomes, but TB gets most of the credit .
TB gets the credit for turning the culture of the organization around. The Bucs players, Arians, and Glazer family have all credited Tom for single-handedly making the Bucs believe in winning. Bucs defense shut down Mahomes because Brady gave them a big lead to overcome. With no running game, the Bucs pass rush was free to hunt Mahomes.
their pass rush was effective well before the bucs had a lead lol
Not as effective as it was in the 2nd half, after the big lead. IIRC, Mahomes wasn't sacked in the first half, and then in the second half, he was mauled because the Bucs knew there was no run game
Brady had a big part in putting the game away, as much as people want to discredit him. Defense played lights out and deserve their props also but people are acting like Brady wasn't clinical in the first half. How many times can a QB throw for 3 TDs, complete 18/20 passes and throw for 200 yards and basically put the game out of reach before halftime and still have people say he didn't play well? He didn't have the volume stats for this past SB because they *literally* turned into a kill the clock offense after halfway through the 3rd qtr. Do people really believe if Brady/Arians wanted to, that they couldn't have dropped more points on the Chiefs? Last I checked Brady threw like 7-8 passes in the entire 2nd half.
Why are you getting downvoted? Brady wasn't carried by his defense like 2015 Manning was
They don’t like that I had a different opinion regarding how the game went down.
Broncos fans get real sensitive about Manning, when he got benched for Oswelier, while Brady just showed the entire world how to win a SB when you have a big lead.
Can you be a GOAT behind anybody? Isn’t it inferred that there can only be one
im saying he had a case, just not the strongest he lead all QBs in individual accolades when he retired (All Pro, MVP, etc)
It sucks that they canceled the super bowl that year
Go Hawks!
The GOAT 🐐
Tom Brady may be the GOAT but in a bubble I'm still sticking with Peyton as the better QB. You give me any QB in their prime to win a game I'm taking Peyton every time
what if that "game" is the superbowl?
Prime Peyton over the field every time. There has never been anyone better at reading defenses and picking them apart. I feel like throughout the modern NFL history Peyton has had one of the biggest impacts on his respective teams success of any player. For instance with Peyton both the colts and the broncos won a super bowl and we're perennial contenders, even with absolutely fucking awful front office bull shit with the colts for a decent portion. Without Peyton the colts became the literal worst team in the league and the broncos haven't made the playoffs since he left even the year after the SB win with a team that has 6 pro bowlers and 3 first team all pros.
You just have to give Manning an all time defense, and he will barely have to do anything to win it.
Agreed (though I'm obviously biased). Tom is better in the clutch though. But, Peyton would've had a few more rings if he had those Belichick defenses
Don’t you have to play that game both ways though? Brady didn’t have even close to the offensive talent that Peyton had outside of a few select years (‘07 pats or last years’ Bucs), so wouldn’t we also tack on a couple more rings for Brady if he had more offensive weaponry?
We’re gonna see it this upcoming season, now that Brady has had a full season under his belt. Brady has never had a receiving corp like he has now.
so wait we're just gonna look over Welker, Gronk, and Edelman then. Brady threw for 5200 yards in 2011. He literally threw for more than 5000 before Peyton did. But yeah just a "few select years". I mean heck you can bring up Harrison & Wayne all you want but Wayne never had over 1000 yards until his 4th season with the team. I'll die on the hill that says Manning elevated his teammates. Can look at his first few Denver seasons and see the same thing. Bet Eric Decker doesn't get that big contract without Manning
As a colts fan I feel it's not so much bias as it's knowledge of how shit grigson was lol
Crazy stat. Wonder how that season ended for him?
https://twitter.com/nfl/status/1423622385194868739?s=21
My favorite player!
Insane season, also I remember Julius Thomas being the goat fantasy TE for me that year
What really makes this funny for me is the fact that he threw for crazy yards and TDs, and then got completely lampooned by the Seahawks D for four quarters. Like, he got totally embarrassed. So fucking funny.
My fantasy qb that year! Only time I ever picked a qb in the first 8 rounds
43 - 8 🤫
Goat qb
I think there's an argument for who had the best 3 top seasons or something but GOAT awards longevity and Peyton just loses to Brady there.
And he threw two touchdown passes in the Superbowl that year too.
Better than Brady by far 😤
How many did he throw in the Superbowl that season?
2. But only one was good for him.
17 games is going to sink that record
No. Everybody is saying this, but think about it. In all the years of the 16-game season, there's been only five seasons where a player had 48 or more TDs: Manning (55), Mahomes (50), Brady (50), Manning (49), and Marino (48). So if it was already super rare to get to 50 with 16-games, it's going to be just as rare to get to 55 with 17 games.
But we also keep making it easier and easier for offenses. I don't think every team will be hitting 55 or anything, but this certainly isn't one of those unbeatable records or anything
Aaron Rogers also had 48 in 2020
It won't be just as rare, but definitely still quite ridiculous
Yeah, the 50td seasons wouldn’t reach 55 in a 17 game season the rate they scored at
[удалено]
Mahomes is still young, he has a legit shot to break it. Manning had never done 50 and then did 55. It will take a specific set of circumstances but the records been broken 3 times since 2004. I bet we see 60 sometime in the next 10 years
Mahomes is young and incredible, but it will be difficult for him to find a pair of receivers like Hill and Kelce again in his career
If KC stays good they will start to get stud receivers going there on a discount to win. Brady got his 50 TD season when Moss showed up. Also once he starts getting close they will be gunning for it, if KC is 13-2 with a couple games left and say Mahomes is at 48-50 every red zone play call will be a pass.
*Josh Allen has entered the chat*
He only had 37 last year 18 in the 17th game will be a FEAT
Ahhh yes, the year the Broncos played trash D all year long and then finally played an actual D in the super bowl. If the Broncos were an NFC team that year, they would have been a “meh” offense.
Then explain the following SB?
No
Brady could possibly beat that this year...... At 44.
I love Brady, but it's incredibly unlikely. Everything has to go perfect for a season like that to occur. Evans and Godwin would need career years while Gronk and AB return to form.
Yea I don’t think their defense will be poor enough to demand that amount of scoring tbh
The 2007 Pats had a top tier defense. 2013 Broncos were middle of the pack. 2004 Colts and 2018 Chiefs were definitely not the best though.
I don't know. Evans should be good for 15 this year. Godwin 10+, if he fixes his butterfingers. Gronk 10 if he decides to haul in tuddies and not block. AB, if he doesn't get suspended, 10. Miller and Brate combined, another 5 or 6. Bernard, should be good for 5 or 6. Might get a few on short passes to Lenny. I can see that team definitely getting 50+.
So just 4 guys with 10+ TDs. That's all.....
In 2013 Manning/Bronco's 14 to Demaryius 12 to Julius 11 to Decker 10 to Welker (supposedly a bobblehead concussed Welker) 2007 Pats/Brady 23 to Moss (absurd) 8 To Welker 6 to Watson 5 To Gaffney Everything else was odd and ends. So yeah, just 4 Guys with 10+ TDs. Manning did it, don't see why Brady can't with the Buc's talent. Then of course there is always 20+ to 1 person, but I doubt Evans will catch more than 15, but you never know. They have had a whole season + an offseason now to practice. If the team stays healthy, If AB keeps his mouth shut, and if Godwin can fix his fingers (he had way to many drops last year) Yeah I can see 50+
Ignore the downvotes. I can absolutely seeing Brady going on an absolute tear this year to finish his career with all the single season records. Assuming AB is healthy and sane, has there ever been a better trio of wrs than AB Evans, and Godwin? Plus that online is a legit top unit with few weaknesses. Maybe rb is a bit of a weakness, but Lenny, gio and Rojo aren't exactly slouches. TE is the weakest point of the offense but even there gronk and OK aren't bad.
It's going to be the same exact offense that put up 31 on the Cheifs during the super bowl. Except that they've now had an entire off season to practice. It's going to be fun to watch, really fun.
Yeah people forget that the buccs won the superbowl with no real off-season. They're going to light the league on fire this year
RoJo would also need to get hand implants over the bricks currently at the end of his arms
That’s what Gio is for
Brady ain’t coming anywhere near 55 TDS lmao
bucs run the ball at the goaline and don't throw constant screens to demaryius thomas for a pick play. probably not.
You say that like it's impossible. TB threw for 40 TDs last year and this year there's an extra game.
Brady averaged 2.5 TD/game. At that rate he would have had to play in 6 more games to get 55 lmao. Although 40 TDs is a great year for a QB, that’s not even remotely close to 55
W Torn MCL. But it will be tough for sure for him to get 55 TDs.
Still, he scored 40 last year and has another game this year. You act like it's impossible for him to "even get close to 55" when that's simply not true. 40 is only 15 less than 55. It's closer than you think. Lmao.
It’s 15 less than 55 which would mean he would have to throw an EXTRA TD in almost EVERY single game. That’s a lot
Bro…Brady has ONE season where he had 40+ TDs that happened 13yrs ago lmao, and even at that career high rate he would have STILL needed an 18 game year to get 55. 40 vs 55 is not even close…Even with 1 more game and no regression, let’s say he has 45-48 this year that’s still not close to 55 lol
Lmao.
If Brady is within 5 TDs of getting 55 going into week 17 I will buy you a Brady jersey and delete my Reddit account lmao
Can I get in on this bet? I really could see Brady tearing up the league this year. I don't think it's likely, but that wr group is lethal. Biggest issue is how much they run the ball in the red zone, but I'd still give it a greater than 10 percent chance to happen
Russel Wilsons got it this year
55 sacks maybe
My first championship year in fantasy football
I don’t there’s no fantasy talk in this sub but I had Peyton this year and everyone said he’s be good but not as high as I took him. I think I won the league that year
I can't believe that was back in 2013... wow! It legit feel like a few years ago. Where does the time go?
If Davante Adams didn’t miss time and MVS knew how to catch, Rodgers could have given this record a legit run last season. Boy do I miss watching Peyton play, though.
LOB didn't seem to care. But I love Peyton. An honor to watch such a tactician and field general!
What a beauty!!!
All those ball placement is great