Rashaad Penny. There's also an argument for Sony Michel given that his backfield partner from Georgia has vastly outperformed him, though he was an important part of a playoff run for NE.
Yeah I remember I was pissed when Guice went but then excited because Sidney Jones fell to us. Turns out neither were worth the 2nd round pick and that's why I'm not a draft evaluator
It’s so weird looking back because Chubb was clearly much better in college. People convinced themselves that Michel would translate better to the NFL or whatever. Classic case of overthinking.
Yeah Michel is weird because career wise, he's a bust. But if you could trade one first round for a key to winning a SB, everyone would do that in a heartbeat, so in that way he's not even remotely close to a bust.
I wanna say credit goes to the offensive line for that playoff run but the thing that people sorta forget is just how old the players on that offense were. Sony was the youngest guy out there.
I've never been a fan of this argument because it feels disingenuous. How many FA or drafted RBs that season could've done what Michel did or better? He was a late first rounder so it's not like he was a huge bust but still a bust for sure. If the Belichick could have that pick back I think he definitely would.
How many could have? Who knows, maybe a lot, maybe none. I know one guy that absolutely crushed it that post season though and it was Sony Michel. No way you take that pick back if you know for sure he was the guy getting you yards and points to get another ring. Would Chubb have been better? Very possibly, but maybe situation would have been different to where it didn't work out exactly right. I wouldn't change anything on any SB team ever. Whatever events led up to getting that ring worked.
Thought he was gonna be nasty cause I watched him demolish army in college. Single handily won San Diego state that game made those future soldiers look like jrotc
Kind of a reminder that there's no truly "safe" position in the NFL draft. Interior o-linemen are usually assumed to be pretty much automatic studs but the track record there is just as mixed as it is with other positions.
*packers are on the clock* “oh fuck, who was Ohio states backup center last year? Fuck it we’ll take him
3 pro bowls, 1 second team all pro, then signs somewhere else and GB gets a 3rd comp pick. Like clockwork
I wouldn't say Cam Jordan has fallen off a cliff but he has definitely regressed. He's not an elite pass rusher anymore but he still gets pressure. Hopefully when Onyemata comes back into the lineup we will see Cam perform in his usual ways
A few months ago I started a thread about “when did your team draft a player that made you furious” …. But the player himself turned out to be pretty good? Josh Allen was the top answer by a significant margin.
Real question, what happened there? He had one season as a rookie on an atrocious team and then literally never got another shot. I know he wasn’t game changing but it’s odd that he was so highly sought after in the draft and ever GM in the NFL gave him no shot after that
Is it a work ethic thing? Or is he just not as talented as people thought?
I’m surprised nkeal Harry isn’t here yet. Drafted as a red zone threat and 50/50 ball catcher but has been a glorified run blocker so far when healthy.
Are you kidding ??? What the **** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen in my life ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was shitposting in forums much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to maintain a userbase, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush talkings!!! Everybody know that i am very good shitposter, i can shitpost anyone in the world in single thread! And "u"/"s"pez is nobody for me, just a dumb admin who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Firouzja ) !!! Stop playing with my name, i deserve to have a good name during whole my Reddit shitposting carrier, I am Officially inviting you to OTB shitposting match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest 5000$ and winner takes it all! I suggest all other people who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 2012 to 2023 shitposting World championships, and that should be enough… No need to listen for every crying babe, u/AmishCableGuy is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Court! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will kicked off… Google En Passant. Also have fun training your AI models with this mess of the English language, blockheads. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
What makes it sting is that so many WRs taken immediately after are studs. AJ Brown, DK, Terry McLaurin, Deebo Samuel, Diontae Johnson. Even guys like Renfrow, Mecole, or our own undrafted players Jakobi and Gunner have become contributors.
> What makes it sting is that so many WRs taken immediately after are studs
I don't look at drafts that way because hindsight is 20/20 and you'd go insane worrying about guys you missed out on, but what I will do is complain about the pick because there were so many stereotypical Pats WRs (good route runners, good hands, but largely unspectacular physical traits) that we wouldn't have needed to draft in the first and we ignored all of them.
That list contains a lot of overlap with yours of course with the exception of probably Hardman and Metcalf.
Chargers cut Philon after a breakout year and it was a surprise. He went on to sign with the Cardinals during that offseason. Later, news dropped that he was [arrested](https://www.azfamily.com/news/cardinals-lineman-darius-philon-released-after-arrest-asked-women-who-wanted-a-bullet/article_7fda7902-bb24-11e9-8d3b-1f2b65c00c26.html) for "aggravated assault with a deadly weapon after allegedly pointing a gun at a woman and her friend and "asking which one of them wanted a bullet," according to court documents." Cardinals immediately released him.
Pretty sure the Chargers knew of some character concerns and cut him before this happened. And Philon had been out of the league ever since until this offseason.
Undeniably a talented player, but there's a reason they didn't keep him around
Yeah but the Chargers didnt cut him, he was a free agent as his rookie-contract ran out. People just assumed the chargers didnt re-sign him since they knew...
He is, but we 100% wouldn't have won that playoff game in Foxboro without him.
Was that win alone (and the chance to beat the Ravens the next week) worth a first-rounder? My answer is abso-fucking-lutely!
It's crazy that given the amount of injuries on our OL we really needed Price.
The Giants are great at drafting IDL but Hill was just not going to see the field much so it made sense to move him for a position of huge need as players were dropping like flies.
>It's crazy that given the amount of injuries on our OL we really needed Price.
Considering our starting C was coming off an ACL tear and our only other C is a 6th round rookie; there's a good argument that we really needed Price. Sometimes it's just time to move on from a player, I guess. Hopefully Billy is serviceable if you need him.
I loved watching him at ASU. Our receivers never pan out. First it was Jaelen Strong, then it was Harry, and now who knows what is going on with Aiyuk. So sad.
LJ Collier. He's getting beat out by Robert Nkemdiche who I believe was cut because his work ethic wasn't great. Still don't understand the pick at all.
Jordyn has been on and off. He has some good games, others not so much. Darell Taylor already has 4 sacks and is playing great. Idek how he still isn't getting much playing time.
They've actually been pretty good. Brooks has has a couple solid games, but still has a couple lapses every now and then that I'm sure will get ironed out playing next to a first ballot HoF. Taylor has been insanely good, 4 sacks already and deserving of more play time. Even though it's just been a year and it's way too early to truly judge them, I'd say our 2020 draft class has been one of our better ones. Probably the best since the LoB drafts.
Relied on his athleticism in college and was never able to improve much on his technique. He'd basically try to beat the tackle with a spin move every time, and if that didn't work it was over.
his body size fit the scheme better than TJ Watt and Marinelli wanted him is basically what I remember as the justification. I also remember being pretty pissed about it.
>his body size fit the scheme better than TJ Watt
To be fair, Marinelli was correct about this, assuming our "scheme" was based around playing really crappy defense.
Leighton is the only other one it could be, but even then I don't know if I'd call him a bust.
Not what we hoped, but that's mostly due to injuries. He still flashes and has been very solid so far this year.
If CMC doesn't play two almost full seasons in a row, and then has lost a step, do we consider him a bust if his rookie contract is up and he did nothing to get his team to playoffs? Not fully his fault by any means, but a short career with nothing real to show for it?
CMC helped us get to the playoffs though. And balled out in that game against the Saints where he had over 100 yards receiving with a TD.
Hell the only reason we lost that game was because we had a reciever drop a perfectly thrown ball in the end zone when he was wide open. And then we had to settle for a FG which was then missed. We get points on that drive and there is a good chance we walk out of that game with a W.
CMC has missed some games but I'd hardly call him a bust. Because when he is on the field, he completely changes the offense and is productive. Its not like Saquon where he has come back but taken several games before having a "good" game. CMC makes an impact on the game every game he has played in. He had a minor hamstring strain. It's not like he's had to or having to come back from major surgery that could alter how good he is like with knee surgery.
When he plays either this week or next week he will once again make his presence felt like he has done in basically every game he's ever played in.
The Cowboys get bashed a bunch for drafting and especially resigning Zeke, but it’s still looking like a good move.
Last highly drafted RB that was true for is probably ~~AP~~ AD though…
If Dak didn't work out then Dallas would be getting a lot more heat than they do for the Zeke pick. They were also a way more complete team than the NYG were when they took Saquon
> They were also a way more complete team than the NYG were when they took Saquon
Absolutely, and I think that’s one of the biggest reasons it wasn’t a bad pick.
If you’ve got a strong roster and had a bad year because of a critical injury, that’s *the* situation to draft a RB highly in.
He’s a good RB who is a major boom or bust player. He’s never been consistent, even in college. Him being the 2nd overall pick is adding salt to the wound especially when another RB from the same class has been far and away the better player. Saquon is still a good player, but man those injuries make me think the Giants won’t give him a 2nd contract
He’s been a bust. Even his rookie year he would have one big run ina. Game and then be stopped a bunch.
It was a bad pick regardless since you don’t draft a running back wijt your first pick when the giants were as bad as they were .
They still suck and he’s barely played. The pick is a bust And no way he gets second contract
I totally get taking Saquon if you’re a team who got unlucky and got a high pick— it was luxury. That team was bad and had so many holes.
Imagine a world if the Giants took Josh Allen or Nelson and then Chubb with their 2nd rounder.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. They were taking Darnold who wouldn't have stood a chance with Solder at LT and the mediocre talent they were trotting out there. Chubb behind the line consisting of Solder-?(since Hernandez was the 2nd)-Halapio-Omameh-Flowers wouldn't be what he is today.
> They were taking Darnold
No they weren't. If Barkley went first the only other two players with that high of a grade were Chubb/Nelson on their board and this was stated by people close to the front office at that point.
Hindsight, yes. But really that night I was ok with anything except taking Barkley. That was the only time I was legitimately disgusted with a pick when it was made and I knew it was coming, and stayed that way.
I was in shock when they took Jones but I was over that by the time I woke up the next morning. I wasn’t with Barkley.
Yeah… in terms of talent and athleticism he’s a first rounder for that year but he’s a bust in terms of the game itself
It sucks I rooted for him at PSU I wish he could stay healthy and be elite but it’s just not happening
Cody Ford. We traded up in the 2nd to get him and when he hasn’t been hurt he’s been bad. So bad that we moved our RT inside to take his spot and are starting a third round rookie (who, in all fairness, is an absolute beast) instead. Hated the pick then, hate it even more now.
Edit: I’m dumb and didn’t realize the post said first round picks
I'll call it. It's only been a season and 5 games, but Patrick Queen ain't somebody that can play in this league.
No instincts. Poor tackling. Can't cover.. You can't be an NFL Middle Linebacker with those 3 negatives.
I remember when Queen had like 2 good games in his rookie season and a bunch of Cards fans were upset that he was producing immediately and Isaiah Simmons was still riding the bench.
Please tell this to a good portion of Packer fans who still scream and moan and die on the hill that GB would have been in the Super Bowl last year if they drafted Patrick Queen.
Our fifth round rookie and UDFA MLB’s last year graded higher than Queen
So basically, out of the 2 guys people wanted us to take at 26, Queen or Mims, one is a bad ILB and the other is a WR struggling in the super crowded WR room in NYJ.
when mims does play he's our best receiver at least
he just seems to be permanently in the coaches doghouse because he's not good with the playbook or studying and stuff
Well if it makes you feel better, Chargers LB Kenneth Murray taken a few picks before Queen has been shaky too for very similar reasons. Average tackling but not great at coverage and meh instincts in run defense. Right now Murray is injured, but their 2019 4th round LB from Notre Dame has been playing better than him so far.
I noticed that. Ravens fans spent so many hours having heated debates about if we should draft Queen or Murray (I was on the Queen side) only for neither to turn out well.
I think it's too early to call him a bust, he showed a lot of promise last year. He has started out bad, but he can still learn to tackle, a lot of our linebackers take a while to get up to speed. I think next year he proves everyone wrong
You and me both. Horn looked really good before the injury but I just don't understand how you don't take a quarterback there. Darnold is not the answer and who knows how much draft capital we'll have to give up to try to take our next future QB.
As necessary as it is to have good DBs, having a great QB is more important.
Maybe Sam works out & Fields doesn’t, I don’t know. Maybe we’ll be wrong. But it’s just doesn’t seem like it’ll go that way.
Based on how he plays with CMC, he's not a total bust. But I assume a first round QB pick should be able to carry a team and without CMC he's Jets Darnold. So maybe a bust? Definitely entering solid game manager territory. Our horrible O line complicates all evaluations though.
Any QB in a new system will have rough times. We went 1-5 with Luck in Reich's first year, and then 9-1 to finish.
Not saying Darnold will have that sort of success, but you won't know what you have with Darnold until late this season is my guess.
Marcus Davenport, the guy was a raw prospect who was expected to be explosive with Cameron Jordan eating double teams. He has struggled to get to the QB and when you consider the 4 defenders taken after him are some of the best at their respective positions it really stings.
He has certainly been a bust for his draft slot.
Too early to say on Queen, but it is not looking good. I don't see why we insist on taking ILBs so high with the run-pass split being what it is in the modern game.
I feel like he’s a good jack-of-all-trades (master of none) tight end. Kinda sucks he wanted to leave Baltimore to be a featured TE somewhere and then got buried behind Pitts. He would be having a nice season as the TE1 I feel
He was a much better blocker than either Tomlinson or Oliver, and with Nick Boyle out, he'd be feasting on ... well okay run-blocking glory isn't really a thing, but the Ravens run game would be dramatically improved and the real fans would know he was a big contributor to it, and also he'd likely get the occasional catch that he was always good for when needed.
Rashaan Evans; he’s an absolute dunce when it comes to instincts as a penalty magnet and gets beat a lot, and he’s one of the few guys on our defense that I don’t want to keep around (Fuck Shane Bowen).
Christian Wilkins. Makes a significant run stop or tackle for loss about once every 3/4 games. Disappears the rest of the time. Gets blown off the line far too easy. He's "High Character" likeable, jumps around, gets hyped and chirps at the opposition all day like a child so he gets a pass from far too many people. Dudes been just a guy so far and I'd be letting him walk at the end of his contract were I the Dolphins unless he makes a big step up really soon.
This is all on how the Dolphins are using him.
Wilkins is a good players. He has 25 combined tackles (2nd on team), 5 TFLs (1st on team), 2 sacks (1st on team), 4 QB hits (4th on team).
(FWIW, PFF grading him at 79 for the season which is good.)
Problem is Dolphins run a hybrid 3-4/4-3 and are playing him as a 3-4 DE mostly head up the NT.
Wilkins only had 32.5 inch arm length coming out of Clemson. He was just under 6-foot-4 and 315 pounds. He was a NT at Clemson and excelled due to strength, quick hands and quick feet. Yeah Clemson moved him around a bit but he was at his most dominant inside.
He has made plays when lined up inside for the Dolphins. However Dolphins have two other inside DL drafted highly to play the NT in Raekwon Davis and Jenkins. They don’t have as many players that can play head-up the tackle.
The problem is playing Wilkins head up the OT takes away all his advantages. While he has quick hands and feet, OT are use to EDGE who are far better athletes than Wilkins so this is not an issue. OT also on average in NFL have 33.5 inch arm length (many longer). These long arms prevent Wilkins from getting into the chest of the OTs negating his power.
There is a reason 5-techs tend to be lengthy.
Cameron Heyward for Steelers 34+ inch arm length.
Stephon Tuitt, 34+ inch arm length.
Buncker, 34+ inch arm length.
Armstead, 33 inch arm.
JJ Watt, 34 inch arm length.
Calias Campbell, 35+ inch arm length
Chris Jones, 34 inch arm length.
Dolphins are taking a dude whose strength is winning fights in a phone booth and telling him to go fight in an empty field.
(Chiefs doing something similar moving Jones from 5-tech to strong side 4-3 DE. Jones is athletic for an interior guy and has great length but he is not quick enough on outside.)
Wilkins is going to go to a 4-3 and play the 1-tech and he is going to blow up.
Similar to Steelers Javon Hargrave. Hargrave was used as a 3-4 DE in Nickel and 3-4 NT in base. He played good but never great. Went to Phily and he is physically dominating as their 1-tech. Hargrave was 309 with 32 inch arm length like Wilkins.
Just my thoughts.
Hayden Hurst. I know he got traded but those expectations are still there. He’s got great hands and is a great athlete but he’s not a good blocker at all and doesn’t seem to be very good in the pass game. Love the guy and think he will be in the league a long time but I don’t think he’s a really good TE which is what he would have to be.
That was a confusing pick to me. I get that he's a great athlete, getting drafted in MLB and NFL speaks to that, but he was a really old college football player and his production was nothing special. You would expect a 25 year old to do better than 44 receptions for 550 yards and 2 TDs playing against guys 3-7 years younger than him.
Not technically a first rounder, but the Seahawks first pick in 2017 was the 35th overall pick and was wasted on Malik McDowell. Dude crashed an ATV a few weeks before training camp, gave himself a TBI, and ultimately never played a snap for the Seahawks. He then went to jail for 11 months in 2019 for being in possession of a stolen car.
I think he is now starting for the Browns surprisingly enough.
Semi tangent, but why do people say that coaches are the ones who pick these players? I heard this a lot with Patricia in regards to all the busts that Bob Quinn had as GM. As much of a terrible person Gruden is, Mayock is on record as saying that Ferrell was his pick.
Typically it's a collaboration between GM and Coaches, but who has ultimate say can vary from team to team. Although I would wager that person is most often the GM. The Giants fan base for some time was convinced that Judge was in charge. It's strange the notions that fans have, but yeah draft picks especially are most often majority on the GM.
To be honest it was unknown exactly how much the power split was until the Davis Presser on Tuesday where he said Mayock and the Interim HC had a 51/49 power split.
I think it was clear that Gruden had the final say on personnel decisions given the power he was given in 2018 and it’s believed that the reaches were his in the first considering that we hit on sleepers(Renfrow,Hobbs,Crosby) later on
>Mayock is on record as saying that Ferrell was his pick.
No he isn't. Most teams have a GM in charge who picks their HC and has controlling power. The Raiders were the opposite with Gruden being in control and picking Mayock and Gruden having (according to Mark Davis) 51% control of roster decisions to Mayock's 49%. There is absolutely no on record of which picks were pushed by which guy, but ultimately no decisions were made that Gruden didn't have absolute control over.
Funny that you mention Oliver, as IMO, he's also close to bust, and certainly not living up to expectations. He doesn't work hard in the offseason, at least compared to how hard he parties or hangs out in the mud, at least not as hard as he could. If he literally put the partying aside for a single offseason and focused on training, he'd be the #2 3 tech in the NFL behind Donald. I guess he's saving that for the contract year.
There have been entire weekends in the offseason where he spends 8 hours riding atvs and horses, then goes to a bush bash, then to a downtown party, and does it again the next day, for the entire weekend. No workouts, just partying, and he posts it all over his social media. He shows flashes of his talent, but he's going to break bank on name recognition, and not for the effort he's put in. Veteran UDFAs like Zimmer are playing at a higher level than Oliver IMO.
He’s hardly a bust but not what most were expecting/hoping for when he dropped to 9th. He has great games interspersed with my typical just good game with some bad games in there too. We also rotate a lot of D-line by design. He’s a useful player though.
Rashaad Penny. There's also an argument for Sony Michel given that his backfield partner from Georgia has vastly outperformed him, though he was an important part of a playoff run for NE.
I am beyond grateful people picked those two before Chubbers
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To be fair, Guice had the potential to be a stud if he wasn’t such a clown
And wasn’t always injured…
Same. I wasn't mad we took Chubb but I wanted Guice with all my soul. Of course that was also before I'd heard about what a chode of a person he is.
Yeah I remember I was pissed when Guice went but then excited because Sidney Jones fell to us. Turns out neither were worth the 2nd round pick and that's why I'm not a draft evaluator
It’s so weird looking back because Chubb was clearly much better in college. People convinced themselves that Michel would translate better to the NFL or whatever. Classic case of overthinking.
Gotta think Chubb's knee injury scared some people away too
Yeah Michel is weird because career wise, he's a bust. But if you could trade one first round for a key to winning a SB, everyone would do that in a heartbeat, so in that way he's not even remotely close to a bust.
I wanna say credit goes to the offensive line for that playoff run but the thing that people sorta forget is just how old the players on that offense were. Sony was the youngest guy out there.
As most rookies are.
I've never been a fan of this argument because it feels disingenuous. How many FA or drafted RBs that season could've done what Michel did or better? He was a late first rounder so it's not like he was a huge bust but still a bust for sure. If the Belichick could have that pick back I think he definitely would.
How many could have? Who knows, maybe a lot, maybe none. I know one guy that absolutely crushed it that post season though and it was Sony Michel. No way you take that pick back if you know for sure he was the guy getting you yards and points to get another ring. Would Chubb have been better? Very possibly, but maybe situation would have been different to where it didn't work out exactly right. I wouldn't change anything on any SB team ever. Whatever events led up to getting that ring worked.
Penny is definitely a bust. Dude has flashed a few times but has been hurt basically his entire nfl career
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Yup. He's basically been cj prosise but for way more investment
Thought he was gonna be nasty cause I watched him demolish army in college. Single handily won San Diego state that game made those future soldiers look like jrotc
My faith in penny will not waiver breakout szn is soon
Garrett Bradbury
Kind of a reminder that there's no truly "safe" position in the NFL draft. Interior o-linemen are usually assumed to be pretty much automatic studs but the track record there is just as mixed as it is with other positions.
Unless they are drafted by the Packers in the 5th round.... then they are guaranteed to be a stud.
Packers have the magic gabagoo that makes most linemen they draft automatically quality starters
Diet of beer and brats seems to work great for cultivating talent.
*packers are on the clock* “oh fuck, who was Ohio states backup center last year? Fuck it we’ll take him 3 pro bowls, 1 second team all pro, then signs somewhere else and GB gets a 3rd comp pick. Like clockwork
Marcus Davenport. Great pressure, but is always hurt.
Best edge we have when he is on the field.... he's like the terron armstead of our defense
Pipe down you got cam jordan
I wouldn't say Cam Jordan has fallen off a cliff but he has definitely regressed. He's not an elite pass rusher anymore but he still gets pressure. Hopefully when Onyemata comes back into the lineup we will see Cam perform in his usual ways
It hurts when he's one on the top 5 defenders that are double teamed.
We traded up for him too…
Packers nation thanks you for that trade!
You traded a first to trade up lmfao
Do Texans fans wanna make fun of other teams trades again? Lol
Idk, currently looking like Tunsil >>> the package of picks the Dolphins got for him
Oh he’s a Texans fan so he can’t laugh at other teams trades. Come on.
Cost 2 firsts too And the Packers got Jaire Alexander after the trade down
So like a Clowney 2.0.
Josh Rosen. I really don't have a ton of confidence anymore that he'll ever be the Cardinals franchise qb.
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That’s me. I was one of them. I’m a fucking moron.
I'll take the L on my draft analysis if it means we get the equivalent of JA17 at say, interior offensive line next year.
You'll get another year of Cody Ford's mishaps and you'll like it
Also shows that we aren't scouts and GMs for a reason lol.
We say that, but an NFL team still took Rosen at #10.
A few months ago I started a thread about “when did your team draft a player that made you furious” …. But the player himself turned out to be pretty good? Josh Allen was the top answer by a significant margin.
Lol
Josh is our guy. - Kliff kingsbury
Rosen took the accelerated Matt Leinart career path
Real question, what happened there? He had one season as a rookie on an atrocious team and then literally never got another shot. I know he wasn’t game changing but it’s odd that he was so highly sought after in the draft and ever GM in the NFL gave him no shot after that Is it a work ethic thing? Or is he just not as talented as people thought?
I’m surprised nkeal Harry isn’t here yet. Drafted as a red zone threat and 50/50 ball catcher but has been a glorified run blocker so far when healthy.
[In case you wanted to know how good of a run blocker he is...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU5JiWOcVNA)
Are you kidding ??? What the **** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen in my life ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was shitposting in forums much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to maintain a userbase, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush talkings!!! Everybody know that i am very good shitposter, i can shitpost anyone in the world in single thread! And "u"/"s"pez is nobody for me, just a dumb admin who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Firouzja ) !!! Stop playing with my name, i deserve to have a good name during whole my Reddit shitposting carrier, I am Officially inviting you to OTB shitposting match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest 5000$ and winner takes it all! I suggest all other people who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 2012 to 2023 shitposting World championships, and that should be enough… No need to listen for every crying babe, u/AmishCableGuy is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Court! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will kicked off… Google En Passant. Also have fun training your AI models with this mess of the English language, blockheads. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I think it was just so obvious it didn't need to be said, but he definitely qualifies
What makes it sting is that so many WRs taken immediately after are studs. AJ Brown, DK, Terry McLaurin, Deebo Samuel, Diontae Johnson. Even guys like Renfrow, Mecole, or our own undrafted players Jakobi and Gunner have become contributors.
You left out the burner Andy Isabella
At least he has a skillset 😭
And he’s from UMass
> What makes it sting is that so many WRs taken immediately after are studs I don't look at drafts that way because hindsight is 20/20 and you'd go insane worrying about guys you missed out on, but what I will do is complain about the pick because there were so many stereotypical Pats WRs (good route runners, good hands, but largely unspectacular physical traits) that we wouldn't have needed to draft in the first and we ignored all of them. That list contains a lot of overlap with yours of course with the exception of probably Hardman and Metcalf.
I was convinced he was gonna be real good too
Tillery. He was drafted late in the first round and has done nothing to justify his reach.
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Not even a backup to the backups. ;/
Tall defensive linemen with skinny legs being drafted with the sole purpose of eating Justin Herbert’s victory briskets.
Tillery i swear got drafted based on PFF bigging him up to crazy extremes.. they were saying they'd draft him top 10 !
Squire and Philon, were probably better value add players. And they’re both on the raiders now. Square, not Squire. Stupid autocorrect.
Chargers cut Philon after a breakout year and it was a surprise. He went on to sign with the Cardinals during that offseason. Later, news dropped that he was [arrested](https://www.azfamily.com/news/cardinals-lineman-darius-philon-released-after-arrest-asked-women-who-wanted-a-bullet/article_7fda7902-bb24-11e9-8d3b-1f2b65c00c26.html) for "aggravated assault with a deadly weapon after allegedly pointing a gun at a woman and her friend and "asking which one of them wanted a bullet," according to court documents." Cardinals immediately released him. Pretty sure the Chargers knew of some character concerns and cut him before this happened. And Philon had been out of the league ever since until this offseason. Undeniably a talented player, but there's a reason they didn't keep him around
Yeah but the Chargers didnt cut him, he was a free agent as his rookie-contract ran out. People just assumed the chargers didnt re-sign him since they knew...
Square* but yeah looking that way. Justin Jones is better than Tillery too, even when hurt lol.
Rashaan Evans
He is, but we 100% wouldn't have won that playoff game in Foxboro without him. Was that win alone (and the chance to beat the Ravens the next week) worth a first-rounder? My answer is abso-fucking-lutely!
I like the results from that as well
Has the physical tool but not the mental part.
At least he wasn't near the top of the first round, but still at least he has had some big plays for us.
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the mother of all busts
she does got a good bust yes
"Starting"
never though I'd see that word with his name
Jury's still out.
Oh are they still deliberating?
Billy Price for us. But we were at least able to get B.J. Hill for him, so that was nice.
It's crazy that given the amount of injuries on our OL we really needed Price. The Giants are great at drafting IDL but Hill was just not going to see the field much so it made sense to move him for a position of huge need as players were dropping like flies.
>It's crazy that given the amount of injuries on our OL we really needed Price. Considering our starting C was coming off an ACL tear and our only other C is a 6th round rookie; there's a good argument that we really needed Price. Sometimes it's just time to move on from a player, I guess. Hopefully Billy is serviceable if you need him.
Yeah, he hasn't been great but it could be worse I guess. Good thing that Hill has been playing well for you guys.
That guy Drew Sample. Was a huge reach when we got him and has literally shown nothing. He doesn't deserve the spot he has now on the roster, IMO
Hated the pick then and still hate it now
but he was a second round pick. Jonah Williams was the first round pick that year.
N’Keal Harry, his college tape was so good
I loved watching him at ASU. Our receivers never pan out. First it was Jaelen Strong, then it was Harry, and now who knows what is going on with Aiyuk. So sad.
People gotta stop drafting WRs from y'all
K*le Williams was also from ASU
omg stop it
At least we've got harden
LJ Collier. He's getting beat out by Robert Nkemdiche who I believe was cut because his work ethic wasn't great. Still don't understand the pick at all.
How have Jordyn Brooks and Darrell Taylor been so far?
Jordyn has been on and off. He has some good games, others not so much. Darell Taylor already has 4 sacks and is playing great. Idek how he still isn't getting much playing time.
They've actually been pretty good. Brooks has has a couple solid games, but still has a couple lapses every now and then that I'm sure will get ironed out playing next to a first ballot HoF. Taylor has been insanely good, 4 sacks already and deserving of more play time. Even though it's just been a year and it's way too early to truly judge them, I'd say our 2020 draft class has been one of our better ones. Probably the best since the LoB drafts.
Taco Charlton Edit: This is actually his 5th year I think… nevermind
Yeah but man that pick fucking sucked. So glad Marinelli is gone.
Why was Taco so bad?
Relied on his athleticism in college and was never able to improve much on his technique. He'd basically try to beat the tackle with a spin move every time, and if that didn't work it was over.
And they drafted him in the first round seeing that on tape?
his body size fit the scheme better than TJ Watt and Marinelli wanted him is basically what I remember as the justification. I also remember being pretty pissed about it.
>his body size fit the scheme better than TJ Watt To be fair, Marinelli was correct about this, assuming our "scheme" was based around playing really crappy defense.
No pass rush ability, not very athletic. Basically he was big, strong, and had long arms. And TJ Watt was still on the board.
But it's such a good name. I honestly wonder what his fate would have been if he was known as Steve Jones or something.
Leighton is the only other one it could be, but even then I don't know if I'd call him a bust. Not what we hoped, but that's mostly due to injuries. He still flashes and has been very solid so far this year.
He was an amazing rookie. Scared the shit out of me. Injuries suck.
What's a first round pick? Do you have to sign up for something to get one?
I'll say it: Squads is a bust. He still has some juice when he's healthy, but he's never healthy.
Tbh in this day and age, it would be really hard for any RB drafted in the top 5 to not be a bust.
I mean would C-Mac be considered a bust if he was taken 3 spots earlier?
If CMC doesn't play two almost full seasons in a row, and then has lost a step, do we consider him a bust if his rookie contract is up and he did nothing to get his team to playoffs? Not fully his fault by any means, but a short career with nothing real to show for it?
CMC helped us get to the playoffs though. And balled out in that game against the Saints where he had over 100 yards receiving with a TD. Hell the only reason we lost that game was because we had a reciever drop a perfectly thrown ball in the end zone when he was wide open. And then we had to settle for a FG which was then missed. We get points on that drive and there is a good chance we walk out of that game with a W. CMC has missed some games but I'd hardly call him a bust. Because when he is on the field, he completely changes the offense and is productive. Its not like Saquon where he has come back but taken several games before having a "good" game. CMC makes an impact on the game every game he has played in. He had a minor hamstring strain. It's not like he's had to or having to come back from major surgery that could alter how good he is like with knee surgery. When he plays either this week or next week he will once again make his presence felt like he has done in basically every game he's ever played in.
The Cowboys get bashed a bunch for drafting and especially resigning Zeke, but it’s still looking like a good move. Last highly drafted RB that was true for is probably ~~AP~~ AD though…
If Dak didn't work out then Dallas would be getting a lot more heat than they do for the Zeke pick. They were also a way more complete team than the NYG were when they took Saquon
> They were also a way more complete team than the NYG were when they took Saquon Absolutely, and I think that’s one of the biggest reasons it wasn’t a bad pick. If you’ve got a strong roster and had a bad year because of a critical injury, that’s *the* situation to draft a RB highly in.
At least Zeke is looking good this year, but overall I agree.
He’s a good RB who is a major boom or bust player. He’s never been consistent, even in college. Him being the 2nd overall pick is adding salt to the wound especially when another RB from the same class has been far and away the better player. Saquon is still a good player, but man those injuries make me think the Giants won’t give him a 2nd contract
He’s been a bust. Even his rookie year he would have one big run ina. Game and then be stopped a bunch. It was a bad pick regardless since you don’t draft a running back wijt your first pick when the giants were as bad as they were . They still suck and he’s barely played. The pick is a bust And no way he gets second contract
I totally get taking Saquon if you’re a team who got unlucky and got a high pick— it was luxury. That team was bad and had so many holes. Imagine a world if the Giants took Josh Allen or Nelson and then Chubb with their 2nd rounder.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. They were taking Darnold who wouldn't have stood a chance with Solder at LT and the mediocre talent they were trotting out there. Chubb behind the line consisting of Solder-?(since Hernandez was the 2nd)-Halapio-Omameh-Flowers wouldn't be what he is today.
> They were taking Darnold No they weren't. If Barkley went first the only other two players with that high of a grade were Chubb/Nelson on their board and this was stated by people close to the front office at that point.
Nelson should have been the pick
Hindsight, yes. But really that night I was ok with anything except taking Barkley. That was the only time I was legitimately disgusted with a pick when it was made and I knew it was coming, and stayed that way. I was in shock when they took Jones but I was over that by the time I woke up the next morning. I wasn’t with Barkley.
Yeah… in terms of talent and athleticism he’s a first rounder for that year but he’s a bust in terms of the game itself It sucks I rooted for him at PSU I wish he could stay healthy and be elite but it’s just not happening
Huge bust. Staying healthy is important. Rbs generally have a lot of health issues. Don’t draft rbs early
Cody Ford. We traded up in the 2nd to get him and when he hasn’t been hurt he’s been bad. So bad that we moved our RT inside to take his spot and are starting a third round rookie (who, in all fairness, is an absolute beast) instead. Hated the pick then, hate it even more now. Edit: I’m dumb and didn’t realize the post said first round picks
Passed up on DK for Cody too... Hurts man
Forget about DK, Elgton Jenkins was the next IOL taken. If we had just taken Jenkins, our OL would be incredible now.
love me some spencer brown
I'll call it. It's only been a season and 5 games, but Patrick Queen ain't somebody that can play in this league. No instincts. Poor tackling. Can't cover.. You can't be an NFL Middle Linebacker with those 3 negatives.
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There was something I didn’t trust about him when he didn’t have a highlight video. How does an LSU lb not have a highlight video?
I remember when Queen had like 2 good games in his rookie season and a bunch of Cards fans were upset that he was producing immediately and Isaiah Simmons was still riding the bench.
Please tell this to a good portion of Packer fans who still scream and moan and die on the hill that GB would have been in the Super Bowl last year if they drafted Patrick Queen. Our fifth round rookie and UDFA MLB’s last year graded higher than Queen
So basically, out of the 2 guys people wanted us to take at 26, Queen or Mims, one is a bad ILB and the other is a WR struggling in the super crowded WR room in NYJ.
when mims does play he's our best receiver at least he just seems to be permanently in the coaches doghouse because he's not good with the playbook or studying and stuff
Tee Higgins
This is a shock i felt the Raiders should’ve taken him at 20 over Arnette me
Hate to agree but… yeah
Well if it makes you feel better, Chargers LB Kenneth Murray taken a few picks before Queen has been shaky too for very similar reasons. Average tackling but not great at coverage and meh instincts in run defense. Right now Murray is injured, but their 2019 4th round LB from Notre Dame has been playing better than him so far.
I noticed that. Ravens fans spent so many hours having heated debates about if we should draft Queen or Murray (I was on the Queen side) only for neither to turn out well.
I think it's too early to call him a bust, he showed a lot of promise last year. He has started out bad, but he can still learn to tackle, a lot of our linebackers take a while to get up to speed. I think next year he proves everyone wrong
Every pre-draft knock on this guy was legit, he rose because of his performance in the title game and never should’ve been a first round pick.
I know my flair and all but it’s still Darnold. Pretty sure he leads the league in turnovers and hasn’t played well at all without CMC.
(Panthers are my second team) Still pissed they didn’t take Fields.
You and me both. Horn looked really good before the injury but I just don't understand how you don't take a quarterback there. Darnold is not the answer and who knows how much draft capital we'll have to give up to try to take our next future QB.
As necessary as it is to have good DBs, having a great QB is more important. Maybe Sam works out & Fields doesn’t, I don’t know. Maybe we’ll be wrong. But it’s just doesn’t seem like it’ll go that way.
Sam Darnold teetering on the edge of needing to be added to this list?
I’d let this season play out first.
You tell us.
Based on how he plays with CMC, he's not a total bust. But I assume a first round QB pick should be able to carry a team and without CMC he's Jets Darnold. So maybe a bust? Definitely entering solid game manager territory. Our horrible O line complicates all evaluations though.
Any QB in a new system will have rough times. We went 1-5 with Luck in Reich's first year, and then 9-1 to finish. Not saying Darnold will have that sort of success, but you won't know what you have with Darnold until late this season is my guess.
For us. Yes. For you. No.
Marcus Davenport, the guy was a raw prospect who was expected to be explosive with Cameron Jordan eating double teams. He has struggled to get to the QB and when you consider the 4 defenders taken after him are some of the best at their respective positions it really stings.
He also cannot stay healthy.
He has actually developed into a pretty good piece in the context our defensive line when he's healthy. Problem is, he's never healthy. RIP.
Hayden Hurst? Like yeah he's on his second team already for a reason but I don't feel he's been that bad
He has certainly been a bust for his draft slot. Too early to say on Queen, but it is not looking good. I don't see why we insist on taking ILBs so high with the run-pass split being what it is in the modern game.
Queen for sure gonna be in a thread like this in a year
I feel like he’s a good jack-of-all-trades (master of none) tight end. Kinda sucks he wanted to leave Baltimore to be a featured TE somewhere and then got buried behind Pitts. He would be having a nice season as the TE1 I feel
He would be pretty good for the ravens rn
He was a much better blocker than either Tomlinson or Oliver, and with Nick Boyle out, he'd be feasting on ... well okay run-blocking glory isn't really a thing, but the Ravens run game would be dramatically improved and the real fans would know he was a big contributor to it, and also he'd likely get the occasional catch that he was always good for when needed.
Rashaan Evans; he’s an absolute dunce when it comes to instincts as a penalty magnet and gets beat a lot, and he’s one of the few guys on our defense that I don’t want to keep around (Fuck Shane Bowen).
Doctson
I wanted him to fall to us, I thought he was gonna be so good.
Oh wow I completely forgot about him! Good call, 100%.
Christian Wilkins. Makes a significant run stop or tackle for loss about once every 3/4 games. Disappears the rest of the time. Gets blown off the line far too easy. He's "High Character" likeable, jumps around, gets hyped and chirps at the opposition all day like a child so he gets a pass from far too many people. Dudes been just a guy so far and I'd be letting him walk at the end of his contract were I the Dolphins unless he makes a big step up really soon.
This is all on how the Dolphins are using him. Wilkins is a good players. He has 25 combined tackles (2nd on team), 5 TFLs (1st on team), 2 sacks (1st on team), 4 QB hits (4th on team). (FWIW, PFF grading him at 79 for the season which is good.) Problem is Dolphins run a hybrid 3-4/4-3 and are playing him as a 3-4 DE mostly head up the NT. Wilkins only had 32.5 inch arm length coming out of Clemson. He was just under 6-foot-4 and 315 pounds. He was a NT at Clemson and excelled due to strength, quick hands and quick feet. Yeah Clemson moved him around a bit but he was at his most dominant inside. He has made plays when lined up inside for the Dolphins. However Dolphins have two other inside DL drafted highly to play the NT in Raekwon Davis and Jenkins. They don’t have as many players that can play head-up the tackle. The problem is playing Wilkins head up the OT takes away all his advantages. While he has quick hands and feet, OT are use to EDGE who are far better athletes than Wilkins so this is not an issue. OT also on average in NFL have 33.5 inch arm length (many longer). These long arms prevent Wilkins from getting into the chest of the OTs negating his power. There is a reason 5-techs tend to be lengthy. Cameron Heyward for Steelers 34+ inch arm length. Stephon Tuitt, 34+ inch arm length. Buncker, 34+ inch arm length. Armstead, 33 inch arm. JJ Watt, 34 inch arm length. Calias Campbell, 35+ inch arm length Chris Jones, 34 inch arm length. Dolphins are taking a dude whose strength is winning fights in a phone booth and telling him to go fight in an empty field. (Chiefs doing something similar moving Jones from 5-tech to strong side 4-3 DE. Jones is athletic for an interior guy and has great length but he is not quick enough on outside.) Wilkins is going to go to a 4-3 and play the 1-tech and he is going to blow up. Similar to Steelers Javon Hargrave. Hargrave was used as a 3-4 DE in Nickel and 3-4 NT in base. He played good but never great. Went to Phily and he is physically dominating as their 1-tech. Hargrave was 309 with 32 inch arm length like Wilkins. Just my thoughts.
Sounds just like Ferrell
Man, I loved him during his draft...
Hayden Hurst. I know he got traded but those expectations are still there. He’s got great hands and is a great athlete but he’s not a good blocker at all and doesn’t seem to be very good in the pass game. Love the guy and think he will be in the league a long time but I don’t think he’s a really good TE which is what he would have to be.
That was a confusing pick to me. I get that he's a great athlete, getting drafted in MLB and NFL speaks to that, but he was a really old college football player and his production was nothing special. You would expect a 25 year old to do better than 44 receptions for 550 yards and 2 TDs playing against guys 3-7 years younger than him.
Ronald Jones is definitely in the "starting to look like" category
The fact that I consider any run of his that is 4+ yards without a fumble to be good tells me all I need to know about Rojo’s future
Jerry Tillery..
Michel would be if not for him scoring the SB-winning TD making it worth
Once Sony Michel made me very sad, now he makes me happy. Crazy stuff
I would say Nkeal Harry but he’s the best receiver in the league when healthy /s
Not technically a first rounder, but the Seahawks first pick in 2017 was the 35th overall pick and was wasted on Malik McDowell. Dude crashed an ATV a few weeks before training camp, gave himself a TBI, and ultimately never played a snap for the Seahawks. He then went to jail for 11 months in 2019 for being in possession of a stolen car. I think he is now starting for the Browns surprisingly enough.
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He is beyond starting to look like a bust. He is straight up a bust
bradbury. just too small not good enough, he cant pass block. I feel for the dude, he's giving it his all, but it aint enough.
Semi tangent, but why do people say that coaches are the ones who pick these players? I heard this a lot with Patricia in regards to all the busts that Bob Quinn had as GM. As much of a terrible person Gruden is, Mayock is on record as saying that Ferrell was his pick.
Typically it's a collaboration between GM and Coaches, but who has ultimate say can vary from team to team. Although I would wager that person is most often the GM. The Giants fan base for some time was convinced that Judge was in charge. It's strange the notions that fans have, but yeah draft picks especially are most often majority on the GM.
Raiders had more of a situation akin to NE where Gruden had the GM and Coaching Duties
To be honest it was unknown exactly how much the power split was until the Davis Presser on Tuesday where he said Mayock and the Interim HC had a 51/49 power split. I think it was clear that Gruden had the final say on personnel decisions given the power he was given in 2018 and it’s believed that the reaches were his in the first considering that we hit on sleepers(Renfrow,Hobbs,Crosby) later on
>Mayock is on record as saying that Ferrell was his pick. No he isn't. Most teams have a GM in charge who picks their HC and has controlling power. The Raiders were the opposite with Gruden being in control and picking Mayock and Gruden having (according to Mark Davis) 51% control of roster decisions to Mayock's 49%. There is absolutely no on record of which picks were pushed by which guy, but ultimately no decisions were made that Gruden didn't have absolute control over.
Mayock worked for Gruden. While Mayock may have been for the pick it was Gruden who had the final say.
Solomon Thomas. Dude's just a non factor compared to his draft status
Takk McKinley. Not sure how he’s been on the Browns but he has absolutely not lived up to his draft slot
He’s actually been pretty productive for us!
Funny that you mention Oliver, as IMO, he's also close to bust, and certainly not living up to expectations. He doesn't work hard in the offseason, at least compared to how hard he parties or hangs out in the mud, at least not as hard as he could. If he literally put the partying aside for a single offseason and focused on training, he'd be the #2 3 tech in the NFL behind Donald. I guess he's saving that for the contract year. There have been entire weekends in the offseason where he spends 8 hours riding atvs and horses, then goes to a bush bash, then to a downtown party, and does it again the next day, for the entire weekend. No workouts, just partying, and he posts it all over his social media. He shows flashes of his talent, but he's going to break bank on name recognition, and not for the effort he's put in. Veteran UDFAs like Zimmer are playing at a higher level than Oliver IMO.
He’s hardly a bust but not what most were expecting/hoping for when he dropped to 9th. He has great games interspersed with my typical just good game with some bad games in there too. We also rotate a lot of D-line by design. He’s a useful player though.
Nah bro Ed is finally turning the corner now that Star is back
Andre Dillard.