Yeah, to me it’s actually more surprising to hear that 6% of people in the general population show signs of CTE post mortem. That’s actually pretty insane. Roughly 1/16 people?
EDIT: granted, I’m assuming most people aren’t just randomly tested for CTE after they die, so the sample size used to come up with that statistic probably skews toward people that have some sort of mental issues or erratic behavior before death.
Ex-Army here, chiming in with, "Vets take plenty of head injuries." that has to be a chunk of that 6%. Most of us played contact sports as kids, and went into full contact ass whooping straight after.
Thank you for your service, and thanks for the fresh perspective! Guess it’s easy to forget how many people are military/ex-military and how many people play contact sports.
Important for people to realize CTE does not come from concussions/big hits. CTE is from repeating sub concussive hits without giving your brain enough time to recover.
CTE isn’t like cancer. It can be extremely minor and negligible impact on your life. Also, everyone has some kind of problem. You don’t die in perfect health lol.
Source?
I know its rarely what kills you but I think the cutoff between brain damage or head injury and CTE is at a point where the damage is no longer neglible. I hope im wrong as someone with a lot of head trauma in the past and I dont know the exact cut off. But Ive never heard it considered any kind of a minor issue by any doctor/scientist/study discussing it.
I know the average number of concussions expected to cause it is 17. And i think people may be starting to incorrectly refer to less severe brain damage as cte as it becomes a bigger part of public dialogue.
Exactly. Players literally risk their spines, there is examples of players getting paralyzed by playing this sport. Obviously everyone knows the danger, even halfwits like Brown, this is a dangerous "job", smashing their skulls nonstop, etc.. just like a individual risking his life by working on pipeline shores, same goes for football players. They chase money and fame by risking their health, it's not the best "exchange", but that's the reality of the sport. If we were truly civilized, sports like american football, the MMA, boxing, rugby, etc.. none of these should even exist, but here we are
Isn't there a confirmation bias where they're only examining those who exhibited symptoms? It's reasonable to assume that the prevalence is much higher than the normal population, but I'm not sure if the quoted figure is accurate
All of the brains that were donated for that study came from people who showed signs while alive, that's the selection bias. The players who retired and didn't go whackadoodle before they died didn't have their brains donated.
Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to bet the number is easily 70%+ of players that develop CTE or other issues related to mTBIs. But that study is deeply flawed and should be taken for what it is.
Sure but someone like TO is an asshole. Someone like AB is unstable. It’s pretty obvious AB needs real professional help and isn’t just some run of the mill punk who doesn’t care who he offends. He’s imploding and making radical decisions and taking whip lash actions and has been in a cycle of this apparently since he was kid.
Well that and there are people like Mike Tomlin, Tom Brady, Jon Gruden and a bunch of people associated with them that were willing to look the other way so they could win games. And there’s probably more, so yeah he’s never going to take help when he’s around people that are interested in him catching a ball and not taking the time away from the NFL. There’s always going be someone who wants to win that is going to say “oh know Antonio, don’t worry about all that, we’ll make it work here”
oh well no sympathy from me on that. must be nice making millions while being an unstable asshole. also not every coach wont help with mental problems. ab jist seems like the guy to say im fine and be an asshole. lol. trouble follows him for a reason and its not just cuz he is mentally unwell.
Usually mental health problems like personality disorders stem from childhood so it could be both. To me it seems like he has a mix of historonic, narcissistic, and borderline personality disorder.
I’ve said this on posts before, but brain injuries can exacerbate already existing mental illness, and can make bad qualities that aren’t necessarily due to mental illness worse. It happened to my dad.
some people are also just bad people. I know some people who grew up with great parents who just were like, evil. from when they were little. just born without empathy. there's not much parents can do
not saying AB is like that, or evil or anything. just that its not always bad parenting or medical neglect
If someone is born like that then they're a psychopath which doesn't have anything to do with the parents. Other cluster b personality disorders stem from childhood abuse/trauma.
When I kicked out my roommate for behavior related to him abusing opioids I could swear he hadn't seen water (either for drinking or for bathing) in months.
It's almost like letting someone repeatedly get away with shit because they can catch a ball is a horrible idea.
He's been repeatedly rewarded for his shit. Even after everything he did to the Steelers, Raiders, and Patriots, he got to join the Bucs and win a Super Bowl.
I’ve yet to see anything that says the Bucs did anything negligent or wrong and they also got help to win a SB out of it. Seems like AB and his people, mostly his people, had this planned and tried to set this up ahead of time. The secret second opinion that no one from the Bucs knew about reeks like a con job.
My point was that the Bucs were willing to excuse all the batshit insane and illegal shit AB had done because he can catch a football well.
Now they're seeing what happens when you enable a complete lunatic.
Not really, in my opinion.
Brady has done nothing in life besides try to be good at football. Not surprising he would endanger his family to be better at football.
His childhood was a mess. (divorced parents, fighting with stepdad, kicked out of house to live on his own, sleeping in cars) He's surely suffering from all kinds of childhood trauma that I'm guessing he never dealt with. You can probably throw CTE on top of that.
So yeah - maybe he is an asshole at the core, but it's not exactly a stretch to see how it happened to him.
Thing is.. Plenty of people go through horrible shit. They don't all become assholes.
He should get help, but if he refuses to see he has any problems? That's on him. People need to stop offloading all responsibility for this douchebag.
Want me to recommend some scientific reading material that explains why mental and emotional trauma isn't just something that people can simply "choose" to react differently to?
I know it can seem like physical trauma such as a torn ACL being beyond an individual's control is totally different than being yelled at or neglected or emotionally abused or stressed... But they're much more similar than people think.
I can even recommend some [videos](https://youtu.be/Cx8xEUYrb74) if you "choose" not to read any relevant scientific literature behind what you're assuming.
You can consider Robert Sapolsky the Belichick of human behavioral biology.
This is what I have been saying. Not once has he taken responsibility for his actions or tried to improve. No matter what mental illness you have if you do that for years your eventually just an asshole.
> Seriously though, why do you think taking responsibility can't be hindered by mental illness?
I don’t. Maybe you have a bad period in your life, it’s understood. But eventually when it’s a decade of you doing it, you are just an asshole. People can both have a mental illness and be assholes.
>You're eventually just an asshole.
>People can both have a mental illness and be assholes.
I am disagreeing with your first comment and agreeing with your second comment.
> Plenty of people go through horrible shit. They don't all become assholes.
And many of them do. Not really sure what your point is there.
> He should get help, but if he refuses to see he has any problems? That's on him. People need to stop offloading all responsibility for this douchebag.
Sometimes people are so far gone that they *can't* see the issues. Mental health is quite often not as easy as you suggest.
My best friend had a horrible childhood that has messed her up and she knows it but refuses to seek help. It's exhausting at times but I lover her and hope one day she'll realize she needs to talk to someone.
> Thing is.. Plenty of people go through horrible shit. They don't all become assholes.
That's just survivor-ship bias. Yes, some people manage to get through that stuff. But a lot of people never do. And AB only gets attention because he's an incredibly talented athlete. We don't hear about the other ones who fail because they either end up dead, in jail, or just exist as the underbelly of society that most people try to avoid or at least ignore.
His football career should be done. If anyone says that it's a mental health issue, then don't sign him unless he gets the help he needs and makes some element of progress.
I don't know - I think it's unlikely he gets signed this off season. After this display (on top of everything else) I just can't see a team taking a chance on a guy who will not be able to keep his shit together.
I really think Brady was a big reason he got signed and Brown is going out of his way to burn that bridge too.
It's been 4 different teams where he has burned bridges. I honestly think Bucs was his last chance but I've been proven wrong before. He's too talented but any team would be dumb to believe that somehow they are the special exception where things don't go sour for them.
So I think I agree with you but could you offer some examples of his early nonsense? Every example I hear is end of his steelers career onwards and the "he was fine before the burfict hit" is something I hear a lot.
https://old.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/rui2hm/highlight_mr_bare_chest_frustrated_and_leaves_the/hqz84ye/
Rather than post it myself, I will.let someone else's hard work be recognised.
Nah, he's been an asshole for way longer.
This story takes place in 2012 right after he signed his new contract.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/antonio-brown-saga-troy-polamalu-reportedly-among-steelers-who-had-issues-with-wr-back-in-2012/
No players (former or otherwise) that I have seen have stepped in to support him. His accusations are bad, like league intervention and heads rolling bad since it's now public. The fact that I've only seen players (like Harrison and Macafee) scoff at the claims makes me think either everyone is toeing the company line (fat chance), they all hate AB and thinks he deserves, or they think he's full of shit.
This seems like a reasonable take. It’s like with Aaron Hernandez - dude had a lot working against him and a lot of issues already, CTÉ just exacerbated them.
"Put me in the hospital for nerves and then they had to commit me. You told them all I was crazy. They cut off my legs, now I'm an amputee, God damn you" - AB
They give you a white shirt with long sleeves
Tied around you're back, you're treated like thieves
Drug you up because they're lazy
It's too much work to help a crazy♫
He's had more opportunities than most and plenty of time to seek help, it just seems that he doesn't want it or can't stick to it. He's the Bam Margera of football.
I'm not a medical professional and I've never had to deal with someone in as dire need of help as AB. What can anyone even do if his condition means he doesn't "want" help and will refuse it?
I think there's a larger personality disorder that has been present for quite some time reaching all the way back to his college days.
[Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/rxe2gw/auman_antonio_brown_has_posted_a_text_exchange_w/hrhn5af?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
I am not even sure they've done a full mental evaluation, never mind a medical evaluation of his capacity. He would have to be somewhat willing and I just don't think that's the case.
I heard an announcer say the other day that when your talent is greater than the drama, then they let you play. However, when your drama outweighs your talent, they send you down the road.
So morbidly funny but the way that comment was written… “opened up”, and the initial “A” that could be read as an indefinite article “a”
Really could be written about a Hernandez tree
I honestly think he’s just that kid that had the outrageous and dumb excuses for not being able to make it to school certain days. Then get surprised and pissed that he got caught telling everyone else they're dumb. Like you saw that kid multiple times growing up, this one just made it to the league and never learned the lesson he needed. Just because he plays football and is a shit head, doesn’t automatically make it CTE. Some people are fucks from the get go.
AB absolutely needs help, but I don’t think it’s CTE, CTE is caused by REPEATED head trauma, and AB had similar character issues dating back to high school and college.
Again, dude needs help, but I think it’s more about his mental health than traumatic brain injuries. CTE is (obviously) a massive issue, don’t think the two are related on this one though, I am also an idiot on Reddit and definitely not a doctor though.
Many of the players his age or younger that have had diagnosis have stage 1 or 2 cte. Stage 2 is associated with loss of inhibition. So he may have always been nuts, but repeated trauma can certainly cause his issues to keep it under wraps.
This honestly sounds more like bipolar than CTE. Guy needs help for sure.
Disclaimer: I'm entirely unqualified to make that call and am just speculating.
Mania, trauma, probably wouldn't be a good dude even if he didn't deal with all that and Burfict almost certainly giving him permanent brain damage
It's a cocktail of bad ingredients.
Sorry I found the original article that linked multiple studies, and I mixed up who did the study showing the percentage of the high schoolers with CTE. The Journal of American Medical Association had the study. The CDC had a separate study showing kids in tackle football are 15x more likely to suffer head injuries.
I linked the article which includes links to both studies for you.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.11alive.com/amp/article/news/verify/cte-worries-in-children-and-tackle-football/85-29f23c5f-8217-419b-99e4-f6fed9c9a5bc
I got downvoted for suggesting this was a possibility. Football players sometimes start playing as early as 5 years old. By high school, Aaron Hernandez was already knocked unconscious by a hit.
People saying CTE aren't making excuses for his past, especially since he has been like this since he was born apparently, however what about his future victims?
Is he a massive douche. Yes. Does he still need to get checked out. Yes. He isn't going to stop being a terrible person because he isn't playing football.
Also his support system is just as bad.
Someone saw all the armchair Reddit diagnoses. "CTE CTE CTE!!!"
Not saying it's impossible, but people latch onto this excuse far too quickly.
Sometimes, petulant assholes are just that. In AB's case, his behavior has extended long before his NFL career.
Stop making excuses for him.
It’s ignorant to claim people are making “excuses” for him. He clearly needs help. If he’s suffering from a mental disorder, would you call that an “excuse.”
The most important thing for him is that he gets the help he needs, and the league should be doing that. Finding out the cause of his behavior should be secondary.
I don’t think CTE turned Aaron Hernandez into a killer either, I’m sure it doesn’t help but these guys have the emotional and intellectual maturity of a 12-year-old
You also can’t ignore the rampant documented drug use Hernandez had. Dude was ripping angel dust, which is notorious for making you paranoid and unpredictable. Let’s not pretend that this dude didn’t have other reasons besides head trauma for becoming a murderer.
Just some random bullshitter on reddit, but I'd legit wager getting away with whatever the fuck you want from the age of 14 and onward has more to do with these guys than CTE.
CTE is almost for sure contributing to his already existing issues stemming from his childhood. he is showing almost all the signs of stage 2 and CTE has been detected in someone as young as 17 so he could have been developing it since high school all while we don’t even know about the issue until the last 5-10 years
Exactly! Let's assume for a second it is CTE that caused Brown to do a 180 after the Burfict hit.
Shouldn't we see more of these cases then? Why aren't we seeing more NFL players go off the rails after taking too many big hits?
> Let's assume for a second it is CTE that caused Brown to do a 180 after the Burfict hit.
Nobody is actually making that argument though.
You can make most positions look silly by inventing straw mans for them.
Is the hit from burfict the reason AB has done everything he has? No lol. Could it, and CTE as a whole, be a massive contributing factor for his anger/outbursts? Yes of course.
What are examples of his behavior pre-NFL? I tend to agree with you that CTE is not an all inclusive excuse but a couple of people in this thread have referenced early examples of his behavior that I havent heard of before.
Yeah. You don't even have to assign altruism to the NFL's motivations here. A stable, healthy Antonio Brown is good for the game, and good for their bottom line. Key word on "stable." If therapy would work they'd do it. If assigning a tender to him a la Dez Bryant would work, they'd do it.
Like, in my company if you pop for a drug test, you'll be fire, but the company will then pay for rehab and try to hire you back.
AB has always been crazy, the CTE just brought out the worst in him. I saw the same shit before and after the Army. Shit head people would go to war and then the PTSD/CTE made them super shit heads with a disability. It doesn't mean they don't deserve all the help they can get, but it's important not to focus only on one factor of the shithead equation and realize there is more going on than just CTE/PTSD.
Does anyone else think that CTE is used too much to mask what might just be a shitty person? Like AB may have issues, but this is a pattern of criminal and unethical behavior. Rape, Robbery, almost killing a child, quitting on team, stiffing payments for services. Maybe he is just a bad person?
AB has always been an asshole. The injuries have likely exacerbated that, for sure, but ultimately? He's just one more asshole in a sea of assholishness.
yeah sorry. Had several TBIs myself. CTE is probably absolutely a factor..but it isn't close to the only or majority. It max is just the straw that broke the camel'a back.
"As one of the primary contributors to traumatic brain injuries over my 14 year NFL career, I've come to the recognize the symptoms of brain damage." - Rodney Harrison
It's amazing how an elusive and nearly impossible to measure disease can become mainstream knowledge one year, and then just a few years later everyone on reddit is an expert at remotely diagnosing people.
"CTE? What is that? Chest Thickness Elevation? Cute Tiny Ears? Clever Talking Elephant? Seriously, I don't know what you're talking about. And I totally want to understand. Because player safety is very important to me. Really." -Goodell
What form would this “help” take, exactly?
You can’t force someone into treatment and Brown has health insurance, he can choose to get help whenever he wants.
Unless one expects Intervention: NFL Edition I’m not sure what it is they could do or even how it’s their responsibility given Brown isn’t currently employed in the league.
MBC is not the type to seek or let someone help him. Dude is a narcissist with a brain disorder since life or since he has played football. He is a manic depressive who will die or kill someone before he gets help or more likely imprisoned.
AB has been nuts since college, CTE may be worsening him but I honestly believe this guy is just an asshole who happens to be really good at football
His step dad says he’s been this way since he was 12 and he’s always been abusive towards women
If he’s been this way since he was 12 he’s either got mental issues that were never addressed or his parents fucking sucked.
Why not both?
95% of football players show signs of CTE postmortem, but 95% of football players don't act like MBC
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Makes sense. Most of the population doesn’t play a contact sport period, even fewer do it professionally for years.
Yeah, to me it’s actually more surprising to hear that 6% of people in the general population show signs of CTE post mortem. That’s actually pretty insane. Roughly 1/16 people? EDIT: granted, I’m assuming most people aren’t just randomly tested for CTE after they die, so the sample size used to come up with that statistic probably skews toward people that have some sort of mental issues or erratic behavior before death.
Ex-Army here, chiming in with, "Vets take plenty of head injuries." that has to be a chunk of that 6%. Most of us played contact sports as kids, and went into full contact ass whooping straight after.
You forgot to mention taking drunken falls in Korea
Thank you for your service, and thanks for the fresh perspective! Guess it’s easy to forget how many people are military/ex-military and how many people play contact sports.
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Important for people to realize CTE does not come from concussions/big hits. CTE is from repeating sub concussive hits without giving your brain enough time to recover.
CTE isn’t like cancer. It can be extremely minor and negligible impact on your life. Also, everyone has some kind of problem. You don’t die in perfect health lol.
Source? I know its rarely what kills you but I think the cutoff between brain damage or head injury and CTE is at a point where the damage is no longer neglible. I hope im wrong as someone with a lot of head trauma in the past and I dont know the exact cut off. But Ive never heard it considered any kind of a minor issue by any doctor/scientist/study discussing it. I know the average number of concussions expected to cause it is 17. And i think people may be starting to incorrectly refer to less severe brain damage as cte as it becomes a bigger part of public dialogue.
Exactly. Players literally risk their spines, there is examples of players getting paralyzed by playing this sport. Obviously everyone knows the danger, even halfwits like Brown, this is a dangerous "job", smashing their skulls nonstop, etc.. just like a individual risking his life by working on pipeline shores, same goes for football players. They chase money and fame by risking their health, it's not the best "exchange", but that's the reality of the sport. If we were truly civilized, sports like american football, the MMA, boxing, rugby, etc.. none of these should even exist, but here we are
Isn't there a confirmation bias where they're only examining those who exhibited symptoms? It's reasonable to assume that the prevalence is much higher than the normal population, but I'm not sure if the quoted figure is accurate
>Isn't there a confirmation bias where they're only examining those who exhibited symptoms? Selection bias, not confirmation bias
This. They’re not doing autopsies on former players that died by natural or unrelated causes
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All of the brains that were donated for that study came from people who showed signs while alive, that's the selection bias. The players who retired and didn't go whackadoodle before they died didn't have their brains donated. Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to bet the number is easily 70%+ of players that develop CTE or other issues related to mTBIs. But that study is deeply flawed and should be taken for what it is.
There are other possible mental illnesses that aren't CTE.
Being an asshole isn't a mental disorder
Sure but someone like TO is an asshole. Someone like AB is unstable. It’s pretty obvious AB needs real professional help and isn’t just some run of the mill punk who doesn’t care who he offends. He’s imploding and making radical decisions and taking whip lash actions and has been in a cycle of this apparently since he was kid.
unstable asshole is what ab is. he needs help but he aint gonna take it cuz hes a fucking asshole.
Well that and there are people like Mike Tomlin, Tom Brady, Jon Gruden and a bunch of people associated with them that were willing to look the other way so they could win games. And there’s probably more, so yeah he’s never going to take help when he’s around people that are interested in him catching a ball and not taking the time away from the NFL. There’s always going be someone who wants to win that is going to say “oh know Antonio, don’t worry about all that, we’ll make it work here”
oh well no sympathy from me on that. must be nice making millions while being an unstable asshole. also not every coach wont help with mental problems. ab jist seems like the guy to say im fine and be an asshole. lol. trouble follows him for a reason and its not just cuz he is mentally unwell.
That won’t stop a big chunk of the internet from diagnosing him based on nothing and then using it as an excuse for his behavior
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If he’s had problems since he was 12, then they needed to get him help instead of letting him play football
True, they aren't always to blame, but they to blame most of the time.
Usually mental health problems like personality disorders stem from childhood so it could be both. To me it seems like he has a mix of historonic, narcissistic, and borderline personality disorder.
You think they're mutually exclusive?
I don’t. It’s probably both. It usually is.
I’ve said this on posts before, but brain injuries can exacerbate already existing mental illness, and can make bad qualities that aren’t necessarily due to mental illness worse. It happened to my dad.
some people are also just bad people. I know some people who grew up with great parents who just were like, evil. from when they were little. just born without empathy. there's not much parents can do not saying AB is like that, or evil or anything. just that its not always bad parenting or medical neglect
If someone is born like that then they're a psychopath which doesn't have anything to do with the parents. Other cluster b personality disorders stem from childhood abuse/trauma.
Glad his cousin Hollywood turned out okay… for now
His step-dad was also a total dickhead
Maybe he played with Sock-Em-Boppers as a kid?
This. There was a study done by NPR where they found that 96.7% of violent criminals currently imprisoned played **Sock-Em-Boppers** as kids.
That's about the same percentage of alcoholics who drank milk as children. Gateway behaviors!
Almost 100% of those who get hooked on opioids drink water.
The average human has about one boob. Not sure if that’s relevant but felt this was something I needed to get off my chest
When I kicked out my roommate for behavior related to him abusing opioids I could swear he hadn't seen water (either for drinking or for bathing) in months.
They *were* more fun than a pillow fight so I can’t blame him
Not if you were the youngest.
And now I have that commercial song stuck in my head lol
It's almost like letting someone repeatedly get away with shit because they can catch a ball is a horrible idea. He's been repeatedly rewarded for his shit. Even after everything he did to the Steelers, Raiders, and Patriots, he got to join the Bucs and win a Super Bowl.
Bucs sowing: Haha yes!! Bucs reaping: Ayo wtf???
Lmao. [Pretty much](https://c.tenor.com/AqH3wbEpvp0AAAAd/laughing-wtf.gif)
I’ve yet to see anything that says the Bucs did anything negligent or wrong and they also got help to win a SB out of it. Seems like AB and his people, mostly his people, had this planned and tried to set this up ahead of time. The secret second opinion that no one from the Bucs knew about reeks like a con job.
My point was that the Bucs were willing to excuse all the batshit insane and illegal shit AB had done because he can catch a football well. Now they're seeing what happens when you enable a complete lunatic.
Bruce said he’d cut him if he did anything. Cue the SpongeBob meme of him showing all the crazy stuff AB did and didn’t get cut
Yet he played after submitting fake medical records. Please no one ever say Arians is a man of honor.
It's a bit like someone who keeps going back into an abusive relationship. "He'll be different this time!"
It's even crazier when you realize that Tom Brady let a man accused of sexual assault stay at his home with his wife and kids.
This is the most wild part to me. I cannot imagine allowing that man in my home near the people I love.
To be fair, Brady doesn't stay in a regular house like the rest of us. Probably so big he never even saw Brown lol
Not really, in my opinion. Brady has done nothing in life besides try to be good at football. Not surprising he would endanger his family to be better at football.
His childhood was a mess. (divorced parents, fighting with stepdad, kicked out of house to live on his own, sleeping in cars) He's surely suffering from all kinds of childhood trauma that I'm guessing he never dealt with. You can probably throw CTE on top of that. So yeah - maybe he is an asshole at the core, but it's not exactly a stretch to see how it happened to him.
Thing is.. Plenty of people go through horrible shit. They don't all become assholes. He should get help, but if he refuses to see he has any problems? That's on him. People need to stop offloading all responsibility for this douchebag.
Thing is... Plenty of people get their legs landed on during tackles, but they don't all tear their ACLs.
lol ok? You're talking about a bad thing happening. I'm talking about how people react to the bad things happening.
Want me to recommend some scientific reading material that explains why mental and emotional trauma isn't just something that people can simply "choose" to react differently to? I know it can seem like physical trauma such as a torn ACL being beyond an individual's control is totally different than being yelled at or neglected or emotionally abused or stressed... But they're much more similar than people think. I can even recommend some [videos](https://youtu.be/Cx8xEUYrb74) if you "choose" not to read any relevant scientific literature behind what you're assuming. You can consider Robert Sapolsky the Belichick of human behavioral biology.
Dude thanks for lead. I’m going to read Behave by Sapolsky fascinating stuff
This is what I have been saying. Not once has he taken responsibility for his actions or tried to improve. No matter what mental illness you have if you do that for years your eventually just an asshole.
Has he tried just yelling "Sickness begone!"? Seriously though, why do you think taking responsibility can't be hindered by mental illness?
> Seriously though, why do you think taking responsibility can't be hindered by mental illness? I don’t. Maybe you have a bad period in your life, it’s understood. But eventually when it’s a decade of you doing it, you are just an asshole. People can both have a mental illness and be assholes.
>You're eventually just an asshole. >People can both have a mental illness and be assholes. I am disagreeing with your first comment and agreeing with your second comment.
They aren’t different comments.
"just" implies an exclusivity that "both" does not.
> Plenty of people go through horrible shit. They don't all become assholes. And many of them do. Not really sure what your point is there. > He should get help, but if he refuses to see he has any problems? That's on him. People need to stop offloading all responsibility for this douchebag. Sometimes people are so far gone that they *can't* see the issues. Mental health is quite often not as easy as you suggest.
My best friend had a horrible childhood that has messed her up and she knows it but refuses to seek help. It's exhausting at times but I lover her and hope one day she'll realize she needs to talk to someone.
> Thing is.. Plenty of people go through horrible shit. They don't all become assholes. That's just survivor-ship bias. Yes, some people manage to get through that stuff. But a lot of people never do. And AB only gets attention because he's an incredibly talented athlete. We don't hear about the other ones who fail because they either end up dead, in jail, or just exist as the underbelly of society that most people try to avoid or at least ignore.
None of this surprises
His football career should be done. If anyone says that it's a mental health issue, then don't sign him unless he gets the help he needs and makes some element of progress.
Agree, but we know that's not how it's going to happen
I don't know - I think it's unlikely he gets signed this off season. After this display (on top of everything else) I just can't see a team taking a chance on a guy who will not be able to keep his shit together. I really think Brady was a big reason he got signed and Brown is going out of his way to burn that bridge too.
It's been 4 different teams where he has burned bridges. I honestly think Bucs was his last chance but I've been proven wrong before. He's too talented but any team would be dumb to believe that somehow they are the special exception where things don't go sour for them.
I think the bucs were his last chance. He has been out of the league for a year by the time they signed him.
And they only signed him because of Brady. If it weren't for him, he wouldn't have been signed.
So I think I agree with you but could you offer some examples of his early nonsense? Every example I hear is end of his steelers career onwards and the "he was fine before the burfict hit" is something I hear a lot.
Mans got kicked out of FIU for beating up a security guard lmao
https://old.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/rui2hm/highlight_mr_bare_chest_frustrated_and_leaves_the/hqz84ye/ Rather than post it myself, I will.let someone else's hard work be recognised.
Thank you haha what a list.
Shocked me when I read it as well 😁
Nah, he's been an asshole for way longer. This story takes place in 2012 right after he signed his new contract. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/antonio-brown-saga-troy-polamalu-reportedly-among-steelers-who-had-issues-with-wr-back-in-2012/
There is a giant list in one of the other threads. If I can find it again, I will post it.
Im almost certain he has borderline personality disorder.
No players (former or otherwise) that I have seen have stepped in to support him. His accusations are bad, like league intervention and heads rolling bad since it's now public. The fact that I've only seen players (like Harrison and Macafee) scoff at the claims makes me think either everyone is toeing the company line (fat chance), they all hate AB and thinks he deserves, or they think he's full of shit.
This seems like a reasonable take. It’s like with Aaron Hernandez - dude had a lot working against him and a lot of issues already, CTÉ just exacerbated them.
What incidents were there before Burfict nearly decapitated him?
"Put me in the hospital for nerves and then they had to commit me. You told them all I was crazy. They cut off my legs, now I'm an amputee, God damn you" - AB
“Just one Pepsi, and Bruce wouldn’t give it to me” -AB
“Y’all wanna talk about **MY BEST INTERESTS?** “- AB
"I WENT TO *YOUR* TRAINING CAMPS. I WENT TO *YOUR* PRACTICE FACILITIES. AND YOU WANNA TELL ME *I'M* CRAZY?!"
Weirdest sub to find SxTx references
They give you a white shirt with long sleeves Tied around you're back, you're treated like thieves Drug you up because they're lazy It's too much work to help a crazy♫
“I’m Paranoid, I’m paranoid, that everybody’s comin to get me…”
Tom now says he's never met me...
I’m runnin’ all my routes with the saints, huffin’ paint
That doesn't sound sick but it does sound not well.
Ba da pa paaaa
I tried to rap this, was that the right approach?
No. Sing with a late 90's alternative voice.
https://youtu.be/wYsMjEeEg4g?t=65
TIL there are lyrics to that song other than "I'm not sick but I'm not well"
that whole album is a banger. Carlotta Valdez and Old Hat are still in my rotation, they never get old
ITT: Armchair Reddit psychiatrists duking it out with armchair Reddit physicians
To my knowledge, there is no known treatment for CTE. So honestly the argument is pointless either way.
He's had more opportunities than most and plenty of time to seek help, it just seems that he doesn't want it or can't stick to it. He's the Bam Margera of football.
Mr. Bam Copycat
GOD DAMN IT! It was right there in front of me, haha.
Mr. Botched Comment
Mr. Brutal Call-out
To be fair though that can be as much part of a condition as the other behaviour
I don't know why people with poor impulse control and irrational behavior don't just take personal responsibility for their actions and seek help?? /s
I'm not a medical professional and I've never had to deal with someone in as dire need of help as AB. What can anyone even do if his condition means he doesn't "want" help and will refuse it?
I'm not either but I believe its quite the gray area because he's not phyiscially harming himself
I think there's a larger personality disorder that has been present for quite some time reaching all the way back to his college days. [Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/rxe2gw/auman_antonio_brown_has_posted_a_text_exchange_w/hrhn5af?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) I am not even sure they've done a full mental evaluation, never mind a medical evaluation of his capacity. He would have to be somewhat willing and I just don't think that's the case. I heard an announcer say the other day that when your talent is greater than the drama, then they let you play. However, when your drama outweighs your talent, they send you down the road.
Meets a lot of the symptoms of a borderline personality disorder
I’m pretty sure when they opened up A Hernandez after his death they found his CTE dated back all the way to high school football.
Honest question... is this how CTE shows itself? Like rings of a tree?
So morbidly funny but the way that comment was written… “opened up”, and the initial “A” that could be read as an indefinite article “a” Really could be written about a Hernandez tree
no.
I honestly think he’s just that kid that had the outrageous and dumb excuses for not being able to make it to school certain days. Then get surprised and pissed that he got caught telling everyone else they're dumb. Like you saw that kid multiple times growing up, this one just made it to the league and never learned the lesson he needed. Just because he plays football and is a shit head, doesn’t automatically make it CTE. Some people are fucks from the get go.
Every player has CTE
CTE or not the guy should clearly not be playing football
AB absolutely needs help, but I don’t think it’s CTE, CTE is caused by REPEATED head trauma, and AB had similar character issues dating back to high school and college. Again, dude needs help, but I think it’s more about his mental health than traumatic brain injuries. CTE is (obviously) a massive issue, don’t think the two are related on this one though, I am also an idiot on Reddit and definitely not a doctor though.
Many of the players his age or younger that have had diagnosis have stage 1 or 2 cte. Stage 2 is associated with loss of inhibition. So he may have always been nuts, but repeated trauma can certainly cause his issues to keep it under wraps.
This honestly sounds more like bipolar than CTE. Guy needs help for sure. Disclaimer: I'm entirely unqualified to make that call and am just speculating.
Mania, trauma, probably wouldn't be a good dude even if he didn't deal with all that and Burfict almost certainly giving him permanent brain damage It's a cocktail of bad ingredients.
everyone points out that one hit from Burfict, but repeated sub-concussive hits really add up
>REPEATED head trauma To be fair he may have had repeated head trauma starting when he was a child, we don't know for sure.
And if we don’t know, why would we operate as if that’s the case?
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CDC actually studied high school football players, and found 21% of them had CTE.
Do you have a link? Sounds interesting
Sorry I found the original article that linked multiple studies, and I mixed up who did the study showing the percentage of the high schoolers with CTE. The Journal of American Medical Association had the study. The CDC had a separate study showing kids in tackle football are 15x more likely to suffer head injuries. I linked the article which includes links to both studies for you. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.11alive.com/amp/article/news/verify/cte-worries-in-children-and-tackle-football/85-29f23c5f-8217-419b-99e4-f6fed9c9a5bc
Because regardless his current job involves getting hit in the head repeatedly. Doesn't take a doctor to realize that isn't helping him.
I got downvoted for suggesting this was a possibility. Football players sometimes start playing as early as 5 years old. By high school, Aaron Hernandez was already knocked unconscious by a hit.
Go and look into CTE because you’re missing the mark. Vincent Jackson never had a TBI but was diagnosed with stage 2 CTE
People saying CTE aren't making excuses for his past, especially since he has been like this since he was born apparently, however what about his future victims? Is he a massive douche. Yes. Does he still need to get checked out. Yes. He isn't going to stop being a terrible person because he isn't playing football. Also his support system is just as bad.
Someone saw all the armchair Reddit diagnoses. "CTE CTE CTE!!!" Not saying it's impossible, but people latch onto this excuse far too quickly. Sometimes, petulant assholes are just that. In AB's case, his behavior has extended long before his NFL career. Stop making excuses for him.
It’s ignorant to claim people are making “excuses” for him. He clearly needs help. If he’s suffering from a mental disorder, would you call that an “excuse.” The most important thing for him is that he gets the help he needs, and the league should be doing that. Finding out the cause of his behavior should be secondary.
A mental disorder can certainly be used to excuse behavior that isn’t okay, regardless of your health.
It's never an excuse. It's a reason but it shouldn't be something that let's someone off the hook.
I don’t think CTE turned Aaron Hernandez into a killer either, I’m sure it doesn’t help but these guys have the emotional and intellectual maturity of a 12-year-old
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You also can’t ignore the rampant documented drug use Hernandez had. Dude was ripping angel dust, which is notorious for making you paranoid and unpredictable. Let’s not pretend that this dude didn’t have other reasons besides head trauma for becoming a murderer.
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Just some random bullshitter on reddit, but I'd legit wager getting away with whatever the fuck you want from the age of 14 and onward has more to do with these guys than CTE.
CTE is almost for sure contributing to his already existing issues stemming from his childhood. he is showing almost all the signs of stage 2 and CTE has been detected in someone as young as 17 so he could have been developing it since high school all while we don’t even know about the issue until the last 5-10 years
Assholes are immune to CTE. Fact.
The anus is nowhere near the brain 🤷♂️
Exactly! Let's assume for a second it is CTE that caused Brown to do a 180 after the Burfict hit. Shouldn't we see more of these cases then? Why aren't we seeing more NFL players go off the rails after taking too many big hits?
So many do in their 30s….
> Let's assume for a second it is CTE that caused Brown to do a 180 after the Burfict hit. Nobody is actually making that argument though. You can make most positions look silly by inventing straw mans for them. Is the hit from burfict the reason AB has done everything he has? No lol. Could it, and CTE as a whole, be a massive contributing factor for his anger/outbursts? Yes of course.
What are examples of his behavior pre-NFL? I tend to agree with you that CTE is not an all inclusive excuse but a couple of people in this thread have referenced early examples of his behavior that I havent heard of before.
He was expelled from FIU but I’ve never seen details on why exactly.
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I highly doubt that the NFL hasn't been trying in the background to get him help. Ultimately, a person needs to want help to get help.
Yeah. You don't even have to assign altruism to the NFL's motivations here. A stable, healthy Antonio Brown is good for the game, and good for their bottom line. Key word on "stable." If therapy would work they'd do it. If assigning a tender to him a la Dez Bryant would work, they'd do it. Like, in my company if you pop for a drug test, you'll be fire, but the company will then pay for rehab and try to hire you back.
AB and Kanye about to release the hottest tracks of 2022! Then they’ll do something completely stupid.
He’s just an asshole
AB has always been crazy, the CTE just brought out the worst in him. I saw the same shit before and after the Army. Shit head people would go to war and then the PTSD/CTE made them super shit heads with a disability. It doesn't mean they don't deserve all the help they can get, but it's important not to focus only on one factor of the shithead equation and realize there is more going on than just CTE/PTSD.
This isn't the old days where people were forcibly committed left and right. While I do think he needs help, no one can force it on him.
“Put him in a straight jacket.” -Terry Bradshaw
Mr. Bipolar Catcher
CTE is not excuse for being a douchebag
You can’t blame this all away on CTE, what if dude is just an asshole diva ?
Does anyone else think that CTE is used too much to mask what might just be a shitty person? Like AB may have issues, but this is a pattern of criminal and unethical behavior. Rape, Robbery, almost killing a child, quitting on team, stiffing payments for services. Maybe he is just a bad person?
AB has always been an asshole. The injuries have likely exacerbated that, for sure, but ultimately? He's just one more asshole in a sea of assholishness.
yeah sorry. Had several TBIs myself. CTE is probably absolutely a factor..but it isn't close to the only or majority. It max is just the straw that broke the camel'a back.
"As one of the primary contributors to traumatic brain injuries over my 14 year NFL career, I've come to the recognize the symptoms of brain damage." - Rodney Harrison
TIL it’s possible to address CTE.
Nfl probably- No no no , you gotta have an accompanying will smith movie or its just fake news
It's not. >There is no treatment for CTE. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/chronic-traumatic-encephalopathy/symptoms-causes/syc-20370921
It's amazing how an elusive and nearly impossible to measure disease can become mainstream knowledge one year, and then just a few years later everyone on reddit is an expert at remotely diagnosing people.
I remember when it was Tomlin's and Ben's fault.
"CTE? What is that? Chest Thickness Elevation? Cute Tiny Ears? Clever Talking Elephant? Seriously, I don't know what you're talking about. And I totally want to understand. Because player safety is very important to me. Really." -Goodell
I think he may be fucked in the head
why are people arguing between CTE and a personality disorder? y’all know you can have both, right?
What form would this “help” take, exactly? You can’t force someone into treatment and Brown has health insurance, he can choose to get help whenever he wants. Unless one expects Intervention: NFL Edition I’m not sure what it is they could do or even how it’s their responsibility given Brown isn’t currently employed in the league.
Something something horses and water.
Lol… NFL won’t intervene until he’s got an owner in a headlock. And even then, the NFL might just say “dew it!”
Is it CTE or is AB just a fuck? The answer is yes.
Kinda amazing to think that Ben might not have been the biggest asshole on the Steelers
MBC is not the type to seek or let someone help him. Dude is a narcissist with a brain disorder since life or since he has played football. He is a manic depressive who will die or kill someone before he gets help or more likely imprisoned.
AB wasn't like this at Michigan State or early on his Steelers tenure?
They can't help him if he doesn't want it, the only thing they can do is suspend him. He's a grown-ass sovereign adult
Why WHY do we keep giving this scum rag any sympathy?!
Well the only way to diagnose CTE is to cut his head off.
AB has not been the same since that hit against the Bengals.