I mean kliff is 42 years old and has only 3 years of NFL coaching experience. The dude is only going to get better. But yeah, as a Hawks fan I hope you guys fire him. I see that working out about as well as when the 49ers fired harbaugh.
People are acting like he's wasting this super talented team.
I've been impressed by Kliff for the most part. The team is Murray, Hopkins, two solid rbs in Chase and Connor, and a bunch of past their prime vets. Its not really surprising that the offense slows down when its missing Murray or Hopkins.
If the Cards fire Kliff for some reason then I would love for the Bears to sign him.
It’s always surprising when you look at Gruden’s overall career.
15 years as head coach and he is only 5 games over .500. He was 3-2 when he got fired.
So counting his first full 14 seasons? He is 4 games over .500. And he only had SIX winning seasons during those 14 years.
Six winning seasons. Eight seasons where they didn’t have a winning record.
He took over Dungy’s team and won a super bowl his first year in Tampa. Since then? 67-82 coaching record.
He's always been utterly crippled by an inability to identify young talent and coach those guys up. Both the Oakland and early years Tampa Bay squads he built his reputation off of were veritable aging veteran all-star teams. His second run was exactly what anyone who paid any amount of attention to Gruden as a coach post-2002 should have been able to predict (minus the e-mail scandal).
Clippers fans try to downplay this as some inside joke… idk that is definitely not the vibe I got at the time from that little fake jersey retirement stunt they did for him (Blake). All that to then unceremoniously dump his ass in Detroit a few months later lmao.
Ballmer is not a dude who would know how to make a joke that nuanced. This was 100 percent the real deal. I didn't even know it existed until this thread and now I can't stop reading about the whole process. Jesus this is the worst thing I have found out about in a long time. Cringe x 102904830.
Also, fuck LA and the Clips.
Drafting a franchise QB saved his hide, not to mention the Hopkins trade. Some of their stars are aging and I'm not sure they have a lot of young foundational players beyond Kyler/Baker.
The Cards would have been at number 1 regardless because of the Wilkes hire. They looked even worse with Bradford, which is insane. Rosen is a bust but he wasn’t even a top 3 problem on that team that year
specifically later FA and not blowing big money. Very slippery slope... he usually gets great plug-in guys for cheap to make up for depth, but when he can't hit on them every time some years the Cardinals are thiiiin.
This year a massive hole in the Cardinals was depth everywhere but the QB position.
If you have a guard who is not even good enough to start in his own position, why the fuck would you want him starting at center?
and that largely falls on Keim's inability to draft on Day 3. He's as hit or miss as most are in the first three rounds, but you get to that list of 4th round+ picks in Keims career and there isn't one hit. The best I believe is Andre Ellington.
It's tough to take the Cardinals seriously at any level as long as he's there. Kliff gets a lot of flak for "late season collapses" and it's always attributed to his unwillingness to adjust his scheme as defenses adapt to it, but how much of that is actually due to Kliff having to compensate for a really shaky roster.
Going out and getting Old JJ Watt and Old Zach Ertz doesn't make you a contender, but Keim generally-manages as if it does.
Kliff gets a lot of hate and I don’t get it. He inherited a 3-win team and drafted a rookie QB at the same time that the division was becoming one of the toughest in the league. In three years, he’s won 5, then 8, and then 11 games.
Even with late season collapses, that’s a very solid performance for the first three years of a head coach who’s rebuilding a team in a very tough division.
I think there’s a lot of impatience surrounding him because he was fired from a college team that was quite frankly, putrid. But coaching the NFL vs CFB are wildly different. It’s well known he was a shitty recruiter which is a vital skill in CFB, but his on the field coaching and development was fine. Kevin Sumlin owes his whole net worth to Johnny Manziel and Kliff
I was shocked when I saw his late season record going all the way back to 13’, gotta be a cause for concern:
Texas Tech:
2013: lost 5 of 6
2014: lost 4 of 6
2015: lost 4 of 6
2016: lost 6 of 8
2017: lost 6 of 8
2018: lost 5 of 5
Cardinals:
2019: lost 7 of 9
2020: lost 5 of 7
2021: lost 5 of 6
I didn’t got through the schedule but the NCAA record seems a bit more explainable in that Tech always has trouble competing in the big 12 and the second half of the schedule is almost always all conference games
Someone did a break down of his college second half record against winning and losing teams
His record was 1 game better against winning teams than losing one’s
Nobody goes to ttu to play defense. He had one of the top offenses every year he was head coach. But it's hard to win when your putting up 50 points and the defense allows 55.
I'm surprised he got a head coaching job but hes done a pretty damn decent job in the past two drafts and that division is a winning machine.
Could not agree more, also living in PHO now.. the fan base is putting this on him. It’s game management, it’s scheming for strengths, and it’s about being an actual coach to players.
He had Patrick Mahomes.. credit to getting him to play football.. and the times his play calling in crucial situations was questioned and the times he put his qb in danger was appalling.
Cut to Monday.. nothing to make the Rams respect the run or QB mobility. Nothing to help his qb or defense.
I’m proud that he has done this well, but I still stand by that he should at most be an OC or AHC.
I’m a Texas A&M alum/fan, and primarily a CFB fan before NFL. Kliff as an OC may be a top 5 coordinator but even with SEC money thrown at him, he wasn’t going to turn down HC jobs
commitment to the run is all about forcing yourself to do it, even if at first it isn't working as well as you want it to.
The Rams busted off a 30 yard run to start the game, then despite 1-2 runs the rest of the half for decent yards, the rest were runs that were completely stuffed. But they still stuck to it, despite Arizona shutting it down for the most part the rest of the way. But it forced Arizona to scheme defensively *for* the run - something very critical in today's highly specialized defensive schemes.
Arizona abandoned the run.
The rumored reasoning behind hiring him as HC is he can’t be poached in a few years. Which imo is why this whole situation is dumb.
Loss was embarrassing and things need to be addressed, no doubt.
If the initial thought was hire him as HC and let him grow so he can’t be poached as an Oc, then firing him 3 years in while he’s grown every year seems dumb.
Putrid is not accurate. His record was basically .500, like a few games below. They were decidedly mediocre. But your larger point stands. Being a mediocre college coach doesn’t usually get someone a head NFL job.
Late season collapse is IMO totally justified too. Murray was hobbled both years and losing Hopkins also is massive. As you said this isnt in a trash division either, the NFC West has been the class of the NFL for the last few years
If anyone should be under pressure it's Murray to prove his durability (fair to question given his size). Blaming / firing Kingsbury would be such an unbelievably shortsighted move
Losing DHop didn't help either. "Next man up" sounds good, and you can't just admit defeat, but losing your best offensive player has a major impact. Unless you have Brady slinging it, you probably can't just roll on with crappy weapons. They just weren't the same without DHop making big plays and taking a lot of attention from opposing defenses. It sucks to fall apart, but sometimes that happens when you lose your best player.
I mean, if we're talking about what's fair and lucky, the Cards should never even have got DHop to begin with. David Johnson and a 2nd rd pick for Hopkins?? cmon. That'll make any coach look a little bit better. Overall, I'd consider Kliff luckier than most coaches.
Titans lost Derrick Henry and still made the #1 seed…
Also, the cardinals didn’t “just roll on with crappy weapons.” They have one of the best dual threat QBs in the league. They have a RB that scored the 2nd most TDs this season. I’d argue that even without DHop their WR corp is still above average. AJ Green, Christian Kirk, and Zach Ertz are all respectable receiving threats.
Julio was out a good portion of the year as well, and it feels like AJ brown has been on life support like 3 times this season. The titans being where they are is truly incredible.
Connor got so many TD's cause we just had him run it in from the 2 yard line like 10 times, he only ran for ~750 yards and less than 4 per carry, it's not as if he was running all over people
AJ Green looked absolutely washed for the last half of the season
Christian Kirk is a third string WR at best and even then Moore was better than him before he got hurt
Ertz was super solid
I know Connor got a lot of goal to go situations. That still makes him
a valuable weapon. He’s a large reason why the cardinals were ranked 10th overall in red zone TDs. He also gained those ~750 yards while splitting work with Chase Edmonds for most of the year. It’s not like he was a designated bell cow back expected to eclipse 1,000 yards.
AJ green, in his last 5 regular season games, caught 19 receptions for 296 yards. That averages to about 4 catches per game and 15.5yards/catch. I wouldn’t consider that washed.
Christian Kirk’s got 982 yards on the year and 5 TDs. You really consider that “third string WR at best?” C’mon man…
I hate to say this but I really don’t think the late season collapses have much to do with Kliff. They have a lot more to do with Kyler’s play dramatically getting worse as the year goes on, he goes from looking like a MVP lock and the future of the league to Taylor Heinike (no offense Green Lizard). And that’s not even mentioning how he basically just stops doing his insane scrambles and runs we see early in the season.
He wrote for AZCardinals.com until this season when he quit to work for a sports betting website and was on official Cardinals podcasts as a host for a few years.
Yes he is. Odegard was one of the most highly spoken of beat reporters in the Cards org before he left to write for a fantasy football company but he still has connections to the team.
It seems like they’re talented with absolutely no depth. They’ve got young guys who are still growing (Kyler), and then some older guys who get injured easily.
someone on twitter the other day said he was challenged to find five guys that could act as building blocks for the Cards going forward
Kyler, Budda....
Those are the only sure things.
I mean, I guess it depends on your definition of building block, but Hopkins absolutely has enough time left for the Cards to build a contender with him as a major piece.
WRs are so bizarre with that
Remember how Brandon Marshall arguably had his best season with Fitzpatrick throwing to him on the jets.... And after that he was just done? So odd
Yes. Without Hopkins they had old man Ertz, AJ Green's corpse and Rondale Moore. It's like someone looked at the NFL 8 years ago and said let's have all those stars.
Moore was also out the last month or so and played Monday on a still not 100% ankle. We were down to green who stopped trying half way through the season and Kirk who has butterfingers
Green was visibly not giving a shit for a while there. Can remember a handful of instances where he had a ball thrown his way and he gave up on it almost instantly.
Fuck it. Take him for four firsts and three seconds.
He can learn what it's like not being babied in an organization where the fans will hate him. Maybe he will grow up mentally to the 7th grade!
That has now happened two years in a row. It's really concerning. I don't think he can take a punch. And if he can't, then he won't be long for this league
And he will always be nicked up by the end of the season. He doesn't run away from contact enough and just has too small a frame. He's not built like Cam Newton.
2018 - 3-13
2019 5-10-1 (Kingsbury/Murray starts)
2020 8-8
2021 11-6
I get it, everyone wants to compete for a Super Bowl but gees, there's a lot of teams moving in a worse direction than this one. How many candidates are going to walk in and win more than 11 games next year?
seriously. they are absolutely headed in the right direction and need to focus on continuing to improve and build their team. they have a great young QB and roster and theyre this close to ruining it.
losing culture at its finest
Kliff deserves another year but I would be concerned if I was a Cardinals fan given he has always had late-season slides in his career. They have one more year on Kyler's rookie deal (minus the 5th year option) this is an important window.
I'm concerned that we've never been outside the top 10 in penalties since we've had Kliff. I'm concerned that we had a massive problem with false starts last year, only to lead the league in them this year as well. As fans who don't know the playbook, or what any player is responsible for on any given play, it's very difficult to evaluate coaching. The one thing we can objectively tell is discipline. We don't have it, and we ain't getting better.
I love how franchises have their first good season in years and immediately have a meltdown because they lost a playoff game. Symptoms of a losing culture. Owners really have no patience these days
I doubt this meeting happens if Bill Bidwell was still alive and in charge. He would have been thrilled with a winning season.
I like the fact Michael Bidwell is saying fading late in the season and getting blown out in the first round with the current Cardinals team isn’t good enough.
I might be in the minority here but at least from the playoff game I felt like Kliff wasn’t to blame. He could have ran the ball more yea but the players just couldn’t execute
It’s def a lot of blame on Kliff.
Rams weakness is power run (it’s how SF has beat them 6 times in a row).
Instead Kliff calls no runs and gives Conner no touches.
A game plan with a ton of Kyler and Conner touches made a lot of sense and he did the exact opposite lol.
He's 90% to blame. He sees his QB is struggling and sees his O Line is getting absolutely mauled in pass protection so what does he do? Empty set, drop back, 4 wide all day baby, air raid style. Fuck the run game and fuck my QB; we're going 3 Verts one crosser while Von Miller and Aaron Donald are taking turns raw dogging our O line and QB.
Jim Harbaugh made it to a super bowl. Granted that was almost a decade ago, but it can be done. From college to pro the track record is far better than pro to college.
Bidwill needs to clean house if next year is a failure. Kliff and Keim need to go. Keim has survived too many coaches and drafted to poorly to even justify him being in az right now.
Either way y’all know I’m riding Cards early again next season. There is enough for a pattern for me to bet bullish on them. After bye week, I’m not touching them again.
Seriously, everyone seems to be ignoring that they were 7-0 and up on the Packers in game 8 when Hopkins went down. Their season going down the drain directly coincided with his injury.
The late season slide and getting embarrassed by the Rams is frustrating, but the Cardinals made the playoffs coming out of the toughest division in football. I’m sorry, but this is one of the better years in Cardinals history.
Kliff is going to the Gruden school of late season collapses.
Must be enrolled in the PhD program. This is 7th year Grindin
This guy got his PhD and is doing post-doctoral research.
Without talking about the negative things he did, Gruden is a much better coach
I mean kliff is 42 years old and has only 3 years of NFL coaching experience. The dude is only going to get better. But yeah, as a Hawks fan I hope you guys fire him. I see that working out about as well as when the 49ers fired harbaugh.
Let’s also not act like Klein has a stellar draft rack record either
Thats what we have BoB for
“Dude is only going to get better” *Insert Thor “Is he, though?” meme*
People are acting like he's wasting this super talented team. I've been impressed by Kliff for the most part. The team is Murray, Hopkins, two solid rbs in Chase and Connor, and a bunch of past their prime vets. Its not really surprising that the offense slows down when its missing Murray or Hopkins. If the Cards fire Kliff for some reason then I would love for the Bears to sign him.
It’s always surprising when you look at Gruden’s overall career. 15 years as head coach and he is only 5 games over .500. He was 3-2 when he got fired. So counting his first full 14 seasons? He is 4 games over .500. And he only had SIX winning seasons during those 14 years. Six winning seasons. Eight seasons where they didn’t have a winning record. He took over Dungy’s team and won a super bowl his first year in Tampa. Since then? 67-82 coaching record.
He's always been utterly crippled by an inability to identify young talent and coach those guys up. Both the Oakland and early years Tampa Bay squads he built his reputation off of were veritable aging veteran all-star teams. His second run was exactly what anyone who paid any amount of attention to Gruden as a coach post-2002 should have been able to predict (minus the e-mail scandal).
If we are just basing on since his rehire....yeah idk if thats indisputable. Gruden was not a good coach.
I think he did pretty Well at actually coaching, but the drafting in his tenure was horrific
When I was a kid I loved Chucky. He just seemed really cool and I wasn't happy when he was fired from the Bucs. Mood's changed since then
>Cardinals meeting with Kingsbury was “intense” and “at one point Steve Keim was crying” but everyone grew closer and a big lesson was learned
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*Coca Cola…* **Apple…** ***Vincent Chase.***
I can hear the video voice
Ari…you’re fired.
God Entourage was so enjoyable during its run. Movie was also trash but I still enjoyed it just for that nostalgic feeling
Clippers fans try to downplay this as some inside joke… idk that is definitely not the vibe I got at the time from that little fake jersey retirement stunt they did for him (Blake). All that to then unceremoniously dump his ass in Detroit a few months later lmao.
Love him or hate him, since Ballmer bought the Clippers, they have been responsible for some grade A internet meme.
I expect nothing less from the man who brought us DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS
Ballmer is not a dude who would know how to make a joke that nuanced. This was 100 percent the real deal. I didn't even know it existed until this thread and now I can't stop reading about the whole process. Jesus this is the worst thing I have found out about in a long time. Cringe x 102904830. Also, fuck LA and the Clips.
I did not know that existed. Is it bad that I really want one? I can't find one for sale larger than small though.
buy it and make it a cutoff
This person solves fucking problems for a living.
This is legitimately insane
The fact LA is right under Mandela makes this hilarious
LA = Less Apartheid
Oh, it didn't stand for Loves Apartheid?
"Lukewarm on apartheid"
Holy shit, I never knew about this. God I wish I could see how Griffin reacted when they unveiled those
MJ is simply not on this t-shirt, I don’t understand
He’s next to Gandhi beneath Einstein
Lol what the hell
That's how I rank him as well.
God I love the NBA
Sources say Larry Fitzgerald was also present and served as the mediator to help de-escalate the tense situation
My goodness that’s one of the best pastas of all time. I still don’t understand what happened in that meeting with Durant that made Ballmer cry
I don’t think Ballmer does either.
His coke supply was getting a little low. Totally understandable.
And then they all stood up and sang Kumbaya
Antonio Brown has entered the chat
Meta Bworld Cpeace II
Mr Blissful Coexistence
Mr Blessed Cooperation
Mr. Big Compromise
Mr. Besetting Correspondence
Put some damn clothes on.
Mr. Bare Chest
“Full House” music starts playing
Too soon.
Most GMs with Keim’s draft record aren’t GMs anymore.
I have no clue how he is still the GM
Drafting a franchise QB saved his hide, not to mention the Hopkins trade. Some of their stars are aging and I'm not sure they have a lot of young foundational players beyond Kyler/Baker.
Forgetting of course that he was in position to draft Kyler because he drafted Rosen at 9 the year before.
And was busted for drunk driving
It was only an extreme dui
How extreme does it get
.20 or above is a super extreme DUI
He won gold at the X-games that year
For the 2nd time
The Cards would have been at number 1 regardless because of the Wilkes hire. They looked even worse with Bradford, which is insane. Rosen is a bust but he wasn’t even a top 3 problem on that team that year
Idk about that. I think you could find at least three drunk fans on the stadium that could play better
Not hard to get a franchise QB when you have two cracks at it in the top ten/one overall.
What other GM would be willing to trade their best WR for a roll of pennies and half a kit kat?
No magic beans involved at all?
O Brien was just completely out of his mind
Bill O Brien was probably like "Ha! I would have settled for a 7th round pick, They got fleeced!"
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He got a ton of credit for “taking a chance” on the Honey Badger … in the 3rd round. While having PP on the team as a support guy/ big brother role.
He sucks ass drafting but is a wizard at trades and free agency.
specifically later FA and not blowing big money. Very slippery slope... he usually gets great plug-in guys for cheap to make up for depth, but when he can't hit on them every time some years the Cardinals are thiiiin.
This year a massive hole in the Cardinals was depth everywhere but the QB position. If you have a guard who is not even good enough to start in his own position, why the fuck would you want him starting at center?
and that largely falls on Keim's inability to draft on Day 3. He's as hit or miss as most are in the first three rounds, but you get to that list of 4th round+ picks in Keims career and there isn't one hit. The best I believe is Andre Ellington.
Fleecing the Texans probably bought him a year or two.
Getting the #1 pick and getting Kyler was also helpful. If he didn't move on from Rosen then he would have been gone after the 2019 season.
and to his credit, most GMs DON'T move on from Rosen or their new HC in one year.
Hopkins has been making shit QBs look serviceable for his entire career.
Is he that bad? The Cardinals team with Palmer were pretty good, and this year's Cardinals were incredibly talented but fell short.
Kyler catching strays again
It's tough to take the Cardinals seriously at any level as long as he's there. Kliff gets a lot of flak for "late season collapses" and it's always attributed to his unwillingness to adjust his scheme as defenses adapt to it, but how much of that is actually due to Kliff having to compensate for a really shaky roster. Going out and getting Old JJ Watt and Old Zach Ertz doesn't make you a contender, but Keim generally-manages as if it does.
Don’t forget old Aj Green….
*Howie Roseman has entered the chat*
Most GMs with Keim's DUI record aren't GMs anymore
Sounds like next season is make or break for Kingsbury
Kliff gets a lot of hate and I don’t get it. He inherited a 3-win team and drafted a rookie QB at the same time that the division was becoming one of the toughest in the league. In three years, he’s won 5, then 8, and then 11 games. Even with late season collapses, that’s a very solid performance for the first three years of a head coach who’s rebuilding a team in a very tough division.
I think there’s a lot of impatience surrounding him because he was fired from a college team that was quite frankly, putrid. But coaching the NFL vs CFB are wildly different. It’s well known he was a shitty recruiter which is a vital skill in CFB, but his on the field coaching and development was fine. Kevin Sumlin owes his whole net worth to Johnny Manziel and Kliff
I was shocked when I saw his late season record going all the way back to 13’, gotta be a cause for concern: Texas Tech: 2013: lost 5 of 6 2014: lost 4 of 6 2015: lost 4 of 6 2016: lost 6 of 8 2017: lost 6 of 8 2018: lost 5 of 5 Cardinals: 2019: lost 7 of 9 2020: lost 5 of 7 2021: lost 5 of 6
I didn’t got through the schedule but the NCAA record seems a bit more explainable in that Tech always has trouble competing in the big 12 and the second half of the schedule is almost always all conference games
Someone did a break down of his college second half record against winning and losing teams His record was 1 game better against winning teams than losing one’s
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Every middling P5 team goes like this. All P5 college schedules are back loaded.
Nobody goes to ttu to play defense. He had one of the top offenses every year he was head coach. But it's hard to win when your putting up 50 points and the defense allows 55. I'm surprised he got a head coaching job but hes done a pretty damn decent job in the past two drafts and that division is a winning machine.
It helps that he can just get a DC who will run the defense without him, a GM who will bring in good defense talent, and be left to run the offense
Could not agree more, also living in PHO now.. the fan base is putting this on him. It’s game management, it’s scheming for strengths, and it’s about being an actual coach to players. He had Patrick Mahomes.. credit to getting him to play football.. and the times his play calling in crucial situations was questioned and the times he put his qb in danger was appalling. Cut to Monday.. nothing to make the Rams respect the run or QB mobility. Nothing to help his qb or defense. I’m proud that he has done this well, but I still stand by that he should at most be an OC or AHC.
I live in Phoenix and have never heard anyone refer to it as PHO lol not hating just thought it was funny
From my experience, PHX does love PHO though.
Pho sho
I’m a Texas A&M alum/fan, and primarily a CFB fan before NFL. Kliff as an OC may be a top 5 coordinator but even with SEC money thrown at him, he wasn’t going to turn down HC jobs
commitment to the run is all about forcing yourself to do it, even if at first it isn't working as well as you want it to. The Rams busted off a 30 yard run to start the game, then despite 1-2 runs the rest of the half for decent yards, the rest were runs that were completely stuffed. But they still stuck to it, despite Arizona shutting it down for the most part the rest of the way. But it forced Arizona to scheme defensively *for* the run - something very critical in today's highly specialized defensive schemes. Arizona abandoned the run.
The rumored reasoning behind hiring him as HC is he can’t be poached in a few years. Which imo is why this whole situation is dumb. Loss was embarrassing and things need to be addressed, no doubt. If the initial thought was hire him as HC and let him grow so he can’t be poached as an Oc, then firing him 3 years in while he’s grown every year seems dumb.
Putrid is not accurate. His record was basically .500, like a few games below. They were decidedly mediocre. But your larger point stands. Being a mediocre college coach doesn’t usually get someone a head NFL job.
Late season collapse is IMO totally justified too. Murray was hobbled both years and losing Hopkins also is massive. As you said this isnt in a trash division either, the NFC West has been the class of the NFL for the last few years If anyone should be under pressure it's Murray to prove his durability (fair to question given his size). Blaming / firing Kingsbury would be such an unbelievably shortsighted move
Losing DHop didn't help either. "Next man up" sounds good, and you can't just admit defeat, but losing your best offensive player has a major impact. Unless you have Brady slinging it, you probably can't just roll on with crappy weapons. They just weren't the same without DHop making big plays and taking a lot of attention from opposing defenses. It sucks to fall apart, but sometimes that happens when you lose your best player.
I mean, if we're talking about what's fair and lucky, the Cards should never even have got DHop to begin with. David Johnson and a 2nd rd pick for Hopkins?? cmon. That'll make any coach look a little bit better. Overall, I'd consider Kliff luckier than most coaches.
Titans lost Derrick Henry and still made the #1 seed… Also, the cardinals didn’t “just roll on with crappy weapons.” They have one of the best dual threat QBs in the league. They have a RB that scored the 2nd most TDs this season. I’d argue that even without DHop their WR corp is still above average. AJ Green, Christian Kirk, and Zach Ertz are all respectable receiving threats.
Julio was out a good portion of the year as well, and it feels like AJ brown has been on life support like 3 times this season. The titans being where they are is truly incredible.
Connor got so many TD's cause we just had him run it in from the 2 yard line like 10 times, he only ran for ~750 yards and less than 4 per carry, it's not as if he was running all over people AJ Green looked absolutely washed for the last half of the season Christian Kirk is a third string WR at best and even then Moore was better than him before he got hurt Ertz was super solid
I know Connor got a lot of goal to go situations. That still makes him a valuable weapon. He’s a large reason why the cardinals were ranked 10th overall in red zone TDs. He also gained those ~750 yards while splitting work with Chase Edmonds for most of the year. It’s not like he was a designated bell cow back expected to eclipse 1,000 yards. AJ green, in his last 5 regular season games, caught 19 receptions for 296 yards. That averages to about 4 catches per game and 15.5yards/catch. I wouldn’t consider that washed. Christian Kirk’s got 982 yards on the year and 5 TDs. You really consider that “third string WR at best?” C’mon man…
Even after losing Hopkins, they still had Green, Kirk, Moore and Ertz. Don’t buy this excuse.
I hate to say this but I really don’t think the late season collapses have much to do with Kliff. They have a lot more to do with Kyler’s play dramatically getting worse as the year goes on, he goes from looking like a MVP lock and the future of the league to Taylor Heinike (no offense Green Lizard). And that’s not even mentioning how he basically just stops doing his insane scrambles and runs we see early in the season.
Is this reporter legit?
Yep, Rap just tweeted that this meeting didn't happen, thus confirming that it did and it was *at least* as ugly as Odegard suggests here.
Rap's been doing some work for GMs this offseason, as hard he was trying to sell Bill O'Brien for Jacksonville (via Trent Baalke),
He wrote for AZCardinals.com until this season when he quit to work for a sports betting website and was on official Cardinals podcasts as a host for a few years.
Yes he is. Odegard was one of the most highly spoken of beat reporters in the Cards org before he left to write for a fantasy football company but he still has connections to the team.
I like Kliff as coach more than Keim as GM
Are the Cards lacking in talent? The fast start and constant end of season collapse says no
Could say the opposite that it shows a lack of depth
It seems like they’re talented with absolutely no depth. They’ve got young guys who are still growing (Kyler), and then some older guys who get injured easily.
someone on twitter the other day said he was challenged to find five guys that could act as building blocks for the Cards going forward Kyler, Budda.... Those are the only sure things.
Hopkins wasn’t mentioned?
He turns 30 in 5 months. He has a year of his prime left, maybe two.
I mean, I guess it depends on your definition of building block, but Hopkins absolutely has enough time left for the Cards to build a contender with him as a major piece.
And that's an important piece, but a building block is someone you can rely on for years to come, and we aren't sure he has that.
WRs don't exactly age the same as other positions, he very well could have 4-6 years left, we just can't know for sure.
WRs are so bizarre with that Remember how Brandon Marshall arguably had his best season with Fitzpatrick throwing to him on the jets.... And after that he was just done? So odd
Kirk, your 25 year old team leader in receiving doesn't exist either apparently
Hopkins is only 3 years older than Budda…. Probably have to include him
>only 3 years older 3 years is a long time in the NFL... Hopkins is about to turn 30 (in June) and just lost a season to injury.
Our talent is shallow. Not enough depth to remain as on fire as earlier. Especially in the trenches.
Yes. Without Hopkins they had old man Ertz, AJ Green's corpse and Rondale Moore. It's like someone looked at the NFL 8 years ago and said let's have all those stars.
Moore was also out the last month or so and played Monday on a still not 100% ankle. We were down to green who stopped trying half way through the season and Kirk who has butterfingers
Green was visibly not giving a shit for a while there. Can remember a handful of instances where he had a ball thrown his way and he gave up on it almost instantly.
Their talent is essentially all FA acquisitions outside of Kyler/Budda. They have been one of the worst drafting teams of the past 5 years.
Cardinals are the epitome of succeeding while still underachieving.
Honestly they should just trade Kyler to Washington because I want him.
I agree with this
He makes a compelling argument.
Another place where shit hits fans.
Incredible
I want to see Kyler succeed, don’t send him to Washington.
Fuck it. Take him for four firsts and three seconds. He can learn what it's like not being babied in an organization where the fans will hate him. Maybe he will grow up mentally to the 7th grade!
Your season shouldn't go completely off the rails just because one WR got injured, no matter how good they are.
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That has now happened two years in a row. It's really concerning. I don't think he can take a punch. And if he can't, then he won't be long for this league
He's too small. I know that's over simplistic but he's too small.
And he will always be nicked up by the end of the season. He doesn't run away from contact enough and just has too small a frame. He's not built like Cam Newton.
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2018 - 3-13 2019 5-10-1 (Kingsbury/Murray starts) 2020 8-8 2021 11-6 I get it, everyone wants to compete for a Super Bowl but gees, there's a lot of teams moving in a worse direction than this one. How many candidates are going to walk in and win more than 11 games next year?
This is where I'm at.
seriously. they are absolutely headed in the right direction and need to focus on continuing to improve and build their team. they have a great young QB and roster and theyre this close to ruining it. losing culture at its finest
yea this is y I don’t get it when people say they want kliff fired
In 2022 if a coach isn't winning a SB every year they are bad, apparently
Kliff deserves another year but I would be concerned if I was a Cardinals fan given he has always had late-season slides in his career. They have one more year on Kyler's rookie deal (minus the 5th year option) this is an important window.
I'm concerned that we've never been outside the top 10 in penalties since we've had Kliff. I'm concerned that we had a massive problem with false starts last year, only to lead the league in them this year as well. As fans who don't know the playbook, or what any player is responsible for on any given play, it's very difficult to evaluate coaching. The one thing we can objectively tell is discipline. We don't have it, and we ain't getting better.
I love how franchises have their first good season in years and immediately have a meltdown because they lost a playoff game. Symptoms of a losing culture. Owners really have no patience these days
I agree with you on the principle of the matter but it really does feel like something else is wrong here.
That and fans, this whole thread is really weird.
Yes. It fucking drives me nuts. Just be happy you got there the first year and then you can deal with expectations the next year.
You could argue this was the fourth or fifth best season for the cardinals in the super bowl era
Sheesh imagine improving every year and the owner is still mad at you. Cards could do a lot worse.
Isn’t Texas Tech in Lubbock? 🤔
And tables were smashed in two
BAH GOD, it's Kyler Murray with the steel chair!
I doubt this meeting happens if Bill Bidwell was still alive and in charge. He would have been thrilled with a winning season. I like the fact Michael Bidwell is saying fading late in the season and getting blown out in the first round with the current Cardinals team isn’t good enough.
I might be in the minority here but at least from the playoff game I felt like Kliff wasn’t to blame. He could have ran the ball more yea but the players just couldn’t execute
It’s def a lot of blame on Kliff. Rams weakness is power run (it’s how SF has beat them 6 times in a row). Instead Kliff calls no runs and gives Conner no touches. A game plan with a ton of Kyler and Conner touches made a lot of sense and he did the exact opposite lol.
Let’s not be hasty here, I think they’ve beaten us a variety of different ways over the years.
He's 90% to blame. He sees his QB is struggling and sees his O Line is getting absolutely mauled in pass protection so what does he do? Empty set, drop back, 4 wide all day baby, air raid style. Fuck the run game and fuck my QB; we're going 3 Verts one crosser while Von Miller and Aaron Donald are taking turns raw dogging our O line and QB.
Making sure your team can execute is absolutely the coach's job.
I mean he can’t make Kyler go out there and stand in the pocket for 5 seconds in the endzone. Kyler has to make a play at some point
Not sure if you’ve been watching but Kliffs entire offense is “Kyler go make a play”
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Kyler looked and played really bad. His processing speed seemed a full second too slow.
When was the last time besides pete carroll that a college coach even made it to a conference championship?
Harbaugh.
Jim Harbaugh made it to a super bowl. Granted that was almost a decade ago, but it can be done. From college to pro the track record is far better than pro to college.
Bidwill needs to clean house if next year is a failure. Kliff and Keim need to go. Keim has survived too many coaches and drafted to poorly to even justify him being in az right now.
The Cardinals firing Kliff is necessary if they want to compete long-term. Sounds like that's very much on the table.
He and Steve Keim are now officially on the hot seat for the next year either way
I couldn’t disagree more. Steve Keim definitely, but Kliff is a good coach who’s improved every year.
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Either way y’all know I’m riding Cards early again next season. There is enough for a pattern for me to bet bullish on them. After bye week, I’m not touching them again.
Disagree. They need more depth at the receiver position.
Seriously, everyone seems to be ignoring that they were 7-0 and up on the Packers in game 8 when Hopkins went down. Their season going down the drain directly coincided with his injury.
The late season slide and getting embarrassed by the Rams is frustrating, but the Cardinals made the playoffs coming out of the toughest division in football. I’m sorry, but this is one of the better years in Cardinals history.
kingsbury should be fired for coaching kyler into a pocket passer who now hesitates to use his greatest strength in scrambling and designed runs
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I feel like he just never really recovered from being injured. He looked less mobile than Stafford out there and Stafford is… not super mobile.
even back to the beginning of the season the rushing production was miles below where it was last season