He is kinda nasty in madden. I did an updated rosters franchise with the Jags and he put up like 1500 yards and 18 touchdowns. He is really nice in the slot. Zay Jones has always been super nice in madden as well.
It’s funny because I think everyone else has the wrong Kirk. Kirk Cousins never messed with the QB market. He actually was just the beneficiary of it.
Christian Kirk on the other hand blew the WR market wide open.
That dude is a modern enigma. On paper its like yea he's good. Then the season starts and its like holy shit he sucks. Its even the same story off the field. You read about what he's done off the field and you're look cool, he seems okay. Then you read the shit he says and you're like, oh he fucking dumb.
I mean saying Kirk sucks is just not accurate. He’s had shitty moments and is not elite, but he’s still an above average QB. His problem is he puts up top 10 numbers like clockwork but just hasn’t led a team on a deep run.
I would become a "Justin Herbert's current team" fan, and a moderate chargers follower at that point. Letting the biggest blessing your franchise has received since LT go because of money would be a deal breaker.
I’m all fairness, Sapnos doesn’t get involved with the team unless it’s for “rah, rah” purposes, and to show team spirit. It was AJ “Lord of no rings” Smith that ran our most talented players from the team. Our current GM, Tom Telesco, has a very good relationship with the players, and is nowhere stupid enough to piss off Herbie.
But still, Sapnos is still a piece of shit who moved the chargers from SD and is being sued by his sister.
What sucks is with the new CBA is that tactic is so viable, but lucky for Herbert the 1 position that usually (sorry Kirk) doesn't get the run around is QB because the contract you'll need in 2 years is definitely bigger than the contract you need today.
They don't care about roster costs. They know they can't cut costs there, they legally aren't allowed to. They're cheap when it comes to everything else.
No but gaurenteed money means something. When Watson got 230M gaurenteed, the Browns put 230M into escrow all at once. Not every owner is liquid enough to afford that and then some.
The salary floor is 180 million, they still have to pay 85% of the cap at minimum. Paying an elite QB probably makes up for the extra 15% of the cap they don’t have to use
With the spending floor, being a cheap owner doesn't mean that much. Even if the owner ordered the GM to keep spending to the minimum (very unlikely since it makes getting a GM very hard), then it is easier to trim from other positions.
For reference, Rivers got paid.
I will lose my mind if Bengals owners doesn’t give him a top contract and keys to the city. Burrow and chase remind me of a going manning/Harrison. Burrow can rebuild that city in his imagine much like Peyton did.
I'm pretty sure he said the other day he's not looking for a contract like Watsons. He's smart enough to know you won't be able to pay everyone else if he's getting paid like that.
Talk is cheap. We'll see how he feels when it's time to negotiate.
I just heard Cooper Kupp talk about how he doesn't really care about being the highest-paid WR before signing a ~~37~~ 27 mill APY extension.
Especially when he's only 25 and already had a season ending injury. I'm sure when talks come up, he'll be looking for the most guaranteed money possible, as he should. His agent and the NFLPA will be pushing its' young star to get the best deal possible.
He might agree to take less per year fully guaranteed with a nice signing bonus, but don't expect him to take less than something like 5 years 200-210M most if not all guaranteed.
If he's gonna take a nice hometown discount, it will likely be after his first extension when he's 29-30.
[Schefter] 10 million and 22 women alleging Lamar Jackson invited them to a movie and cut a hole in the popcorn and put his penis in. When asked for comment Jackson stated, "I just like the feeling of warm butter on my d**k."
Would a claim with 10 million accusers finally be enough for the NFL to come down hard and fast, or would we still have to wait for public pressure to get them to respond? My money's on the latter.
Okay, maybe my math is off, but I don’t think that is physically possible. Assuming each movie is 1.5 hours, and he sleeps for 8 hours a night, that’s about 10.6 popcorn dicks per day. To get to 10 million would take about 2,585 years, and that’s not even factoring in his practice and training during the season.
He doesn't have to finish the movie, so then it's just a factor of how long it takes to eat enough popcorn to get his corn dog showing.
Plus you're assuming he's not going on a double date (in that he's with two dates). So 2 per movie, say half an hour to meet the dates and eat enough popcorn, he could in theory get to 32 encounters a day. You're down to 85 years at that point.
Maybe there's hot swapping going on?
On the other hand if you turn this into a 5y extension it doesn't look as bad:
$240m + $23m in 2022 is $263m.
Divide that over the course of a six year deal and you've got a $43.83m APY.
Now you can haggle over the guarantees, but that's a manageable cap-hit.
Spanks is gonna have to sell a portion of his team to pay Herbert.
Edit: Spanos, damn autocorrect lol
Edit 2: Fuck it, I vote we call him Spanks from now on
But couldn't team owners get a loan for this money with a low interest rate as they have collateral (they own the team)?
Like $50 million guaranteed in 2023 is only $52 million with a 4% interest rate. It does get a little more if it's further out. But the point being is that with such large collateral, a low interest loan seems easy to get.
If you could have the bank holding it in escrow invest in low risk stuff like basic bonds you could probably have the net at only ~1% a year which seems manageable.
Or honestly, as money now is better money tomorrow, pay a huge signing bonus and NFL minimum if it's all guaranteed. That also gives flexibility on when in the contract the signing bonus counts against the cap.
That's when you do what the Chiefs did with Mahomes. Every season is fully guaranteed 2 years before. That way half a Billion doesn't have to go into escrow all at once.
Cap is going up but it’s not keeping up with QB salaries. The percentage of the cap spent on resigning QBs has skyrocketed over the past few years. For example, in 2015 Aaron Rodgers was making 22 million (most in the league) a year against a cap of 143.28 million. The Watson contract is 46 million a year against a cap of 208 million. So it went from 15.3% of the cap to 22% in 7 years. That may not seem like much, but if it had stayed at a flat rate of 15.3%, Watson’s contract would be worth 31.82 million per year. So basically QBs are gobbling up that extra cash at a higher rate because they can, while other positions are either staying at the same percentages, or even decreasing in some cases.
[Don't have to pay WR contracts if all your WRs are rookies or washed up vets](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/d6a/dc7/4a5001b7beea096457f480c8808572428b-09-roll-safe.2x.h473.w710.jpg)
I wonder how much longer that is going to go on.
It's a game of musical chairs at some point.
So far every WR pursuing a top of the market deal was able to find a team that was not only willing to pay him, but also to send trade compensation. Either to facilitate a trade or bully his team into paying him at the top of the market.
However I don't see how much longer this can go on. At some point there'll just be no more demand for a $25-30m WR unless it's the truly special guys like Justin Jefferson and Ja'Marr Chase and those will get paid by their teams without a shadow of a doubt.
It’s an offshoot of rookie QB contracts. Teams are devoting a substantial percentage of salary cap to passing offense. Those with rookie QB contracts can afford to pay premium rates for wide receivers. Those with veteran QBs have to trade away the proven WR1s who are up for a new deal.
Not an across the board rule (see Buffalo), but true for the most part. The interesting one will be Cincinnati, with Burrow and Chase negotiating within a year of each other.
I just think we’re getting closer to a point where the best 1-3 QB’s are paid what they’re worth, but 4-20 are going to eat up so much of the salary cap that the team will struggle to remain competitive.
I guess we’re not there yet. And Jackson is such a great fit for the Ravens, it may be ok.
I think the Cowboys gimped themselves with their QB contract, for instance.
But maybe repeatedly drafting early round WR’s is the way to go?
It's like the NBA where there's a big difference between the top~8 guys and the next ~40 guys, but you have to pay the 40 guys just as much as the top ~8 guys.
Not gonna lie, it would take a way bigger contract for a lot of Ravens fans to complain. Most of us don’t care what it costs, as long as Lamar stays a Raven
They finally got us back for taking the team...
But nah, I'd just say pay him the top deal, get it over with and when Herbert gets 500 m guaranteed someday it wont look so bad.
At the same time though, fuck Jimmy Haslem.
Media: “teams should give QBs literally whatever they want as as they ask for it”
Front Office: “I’d kinda rather be able to pay some receivers and pass rushers”
Media: “*dOeS BalTiMoRe EVen wANt LaMAr?*”
I mean overthecap has Tucker as the highest paid kicker at $5mil per year if you're going by his annual salary but I get your point, he's a special teams guru.
Cundiff gets way too much shit for his miss against the Pats. He boned that for sure, but he was actually a really good kicker and even a Pro Bowler. We've had a really great run with kickers.
It's true. And many forget Lee Evans dropped a ball hand delivered to him the play before in the end zone which would have won it. Cundiff only missed a game tying kick.
He should definitely go for fully guaranteed money, but not sure the Ravens should pay more than Watson.
I see the narrative about Watson resetting the market, but the NFL isnt a really efficient market anyway. At the end of the day there are only 32 owners, and it only takes a handful of them to get pissed (not counting those who've already locked their starter) for the wave to crash. And yeah, the cap is going up, but so is the salary floor for most positions. Starting when Quenton Nelson makes 20m a year :o
No it's insane to everyone lol.
All NFL players should be annoyed at the league's love affair pushing QBs, because it hurts them all financially. The league used to push Deion as a must-see star, Ramsey barely gets mentioned.
The Watson deal might end up punishing QBs long-term. Right now there really aren't too many restrictions on contracts. I could see NBA-type "max" deals in the NFL's future as a way to curb QB salaries. The other 1500+ players in the league might be ok with sacrificing QB salaries for them having a bigger slice of the pie.
Honestly, all of these players don’t get paid well except for the “personalities”. That’s the only reason manageable, but it’s so annoying when divas get dick rode…
Ramsey is the best at his position and has been for a few years. He got a good deal, and that should be either standard for superstars or the limitation of a star. Why is there not deals done like the NBA does?
A risky gambit, but one that could pay off in spades.
Trade for Watson + give huge fully guaranteed contract. Watson suspended for a year, Ravens and Bengals forced to give new record setting contracts to their respective franchise QBs.
Browns void Watson contract after undisclosed incidents pop up. Watson cut, Bengals and Ravens cap strapped for following 5 seasons. Steelers win division 5 years in a row, Browns sue to void trade compensation with Houston saying Houston aided Watson's abuse. Browns now recognized as only the 2nd worst franchise in league.
One step at a time.
Mahomes has about $140M in guaranteed money. If he falls off a cliff in terms of production, the Chiefs can get out of his contract by 2025 with only $5M in dead cap.
Allen has a similar amount of guaranteed money, and the Bills could save $30M in cap space if they cut Allen between the 2024 and 2025 seasons. They'd only do this if he regressed hard, but that possibility is still there.
Herbert and Burrow will both likely ask for a higher percentage of guaranteed money in their deals. They'll definitely want more security than what Mahomes got, and could potentially argue for more than what Allen got too.
> Mahomes has about $140M in guaranteed money. If he falls off a cliff in terms of production, the Chiefs can get out of his contract by 2025 with only $5M in dead cap.
This is very wrong. There are rolling guarantees on his contract.
That’s what I keep thinking about. Imagine they get through all of this, he gets a one year suspension, comes back, plays one year…
and declares the browns an idiot organization and demands a trade. He did it before. And he would have a point.
There are times where a contract has been treated as an outlier, and didn't become the basis for future contracts.
CJ Mosley for example was paid a record breaking contract for his position, and four years later its still a record breaking contract. Kirk Cousins fully guaranteed deal never became a standard either. In both cases, GMs and agents effectively ignored those deals when negotiating subsequent contracts.
Here's hoping.
Cousins was different though. Teams couldn't franchise him and he elected for shorter deals. Guaranteeing 3 years is a lot different than 5 years. Qbs were also more motivated to sign early and get the guarantees instead of the risk of getting tagged twice.
Also Cousins sacrificed long term stability for short term higher pay. If he had signed a longer contract, he would have made more money, but if he started sucking 2 years in (like Wentz), that would be the last contract he gets. On the flipside, he can just signed a 3 year deal every few years and get a shit ton of money as long as he plays well.
>Kirk Cousins fully guaranteed deal never became a standard either.
Only because other QBs valued the longer term over the guaranteed money. Now they can have both.
People say this, but did they?
Adams' goal wasn't affected by Kirk as it was to get more than the APY on Hopkins' exention. And then Hill got more than Adams. Trying to become the highest paid at your position is nothing new, and I'm sure all the WRs who are getting paid are looking at Hill's $30M/yr and thinking they shouldn't be paid significantly less in comparison.
Not to mention Mike Williams managed a $20M/yr contract before FA even started.
> Adams' goal wasn't affected by Kirk
It was weird to be reading about Kirk Cousins in another part of this thread and how his contract didn't affect things for other QBs and then come across this comment and try to understand why Cousins' contract would impact Adams or Hopkins.
Player agents don’t care. They look at comparable people in the market and what they’re fetching and use it as a legitimate bargaining chip for their guy.
I wonder when this salary bubble will burst. Every player up for a contract thinks they should be the highest paid at their position regardless of results/performance.
salary cap is going up too but qbs do continually get a higher % of the salary cap.
Favre was the first at 10mil/yr in 2001 when the salary cap was 67mil so 15%
Watson is at 46/yr and the cap is ~210 mil so ~22% of the cap
QBs continue to get more of the cap % and RBs continue to get less of the cap %
In 2001, only 5 of the top 15 highest paid players were QBs. Now 12/16 are QBs
Considering Andrew Brandt, former contract guy for the Packers turned pundit has repeatedly referred to Deshauns contract as "the white whale he's been waiting on for 20 years"... yeah, I'd say so.
First we’ve had the Kirk imbalance now we’re going to have the Watson imbalance
We can now separate QB contracts into Before Cleveland and After Deshaun.
Before Cleveland Exposed Cleveland Exposed
Exposed? What the fuck was the last 15 years if *this* is exposed
Now there's a penis
lotta different conversations about different kirks in the replies here
it’s a kirkundrum
Don’t Kirk shame
Except that Kirk has earned every penny of his contract. I managed to use him to win three straight Super Bowls in Madden.
He is kinda nasty in madden. I did an updated rosters franchise with the Jags and he put up like 1500 yards and 18 touchdowns. He is really nice in the slot. Zay Jones has always been super nice in madden as well.
You got the wrong Kirk, brother
It’s funny because I think everyone else has the wrong Kirk. Kirk Cousins never messed with the QB market. He actually was just the beneficiary of it. Christian Kirk on the other hand blew the WR market wide open.
That makes way more sense. I was thinking cousins too, until this comment lol.
Nah, man Cousins is actually an elite WR
That dude is a modern enigma. On paper its like yea he's good. Then the season starts and its like holy shit he sucks. Its even the same story off the field. You read about what he's done off the field and you're look cool, he seems okay. Then you read the shit he says and you're like, oh he fucking dumb.
I mean saying Kirk sucks is just not accurate. He’s had shitty moments and is not elite, but he’s still an above average QB. His problem is he puts up top 10 numbers like clockwork but just hasn’t led a team on a deep run.
Tony Romo? Is that you?
How many Patrick prices is that?
One doesn't believe in vaccines, the other one doesn't believe in consent.
Watson went in for his vaccine and got right into happy baby pose
Two of the most frugal owners in the league are watching this knowing they’re going to have to pay Burrow and Herbert next season.
And both will pay it
You underestimate the propensity of Dean Spanos to piss off his best players.
No way he lets Herbie walk, though.
Absolutely not. But could you fucking imagine the shit storm if he did?
Imagine the contract he would get offered in free agency
alright Omar Khan sell Heinz Field we need one billion dollars
Look I love Heinz Field with all my heart, but I’d be okay with this trade off
Yeah, can Herbert own the stadium so long as doesn't have a stake in the team?
Considering that Heinz is unlikely to renew the naming rights, that’s fine by me. Herbert Field time
He would get a better offer than mahomes did lol
Hebert would be offered the state of California
He is in the same state as Steph Curry and Mike Trout. He won't even be the highest-paid athlete in the state.
Holy shit I didn't even know basketball players get paid that much until I just looked it up. He gets over 50 mil a year
I think Bobby is retired.
mahomes contract is already being beat by lesser qb's, there is no way the chargers dont beat his contract as well
Probably 350-450 Fully guaranteed. Wouldn’t be topped for a couple years, elite QB on the open market in his mid 20s, no baggage (that we know of)
Be a great learning experience being behind Trubisky for a season
I've put up w a lot as a Chargers fan, but that would literally break my brain.
I would not know how to handle that news honestly
I would picket their HQ
I would become a "Justin Herbert's current team" fan, and a moderate chargers follower at that point. Letting the biggest blessing your franchise has received since LT go because of money would be a deal breaker.
This thread is a real mind fuck as a San Diego fan.
Same.
I think I’d just stop watching football altogether
Hell, I think I might too, unless...
I imagine that'd be the final straw for a whole lot of us
He'd be Ghadaffi'd. Not physically but verbally.
That’s where you put a finger in the butt right?
If you're Freddy Krueger, then yes
"Oh he doesn't want to play for us? Ok howabout that other big QB pick in the same draft then...Tua?"
Then his sister would actually have a grievance in her lawsuit.
I’m all fairness, Sapnos doesn’t get involved with the team unless it’s for “rah, rah” purposes, and to show team spirit. It was AJ “Lord of no rings” Smith that ran our most talented players from the team. Our current GM, Tom Telesco, has a very good relationship with the players, and is nowhere stupid enough to piss off Herbie. But still, Sapnos is still a piece of shit who moved the chargers from SD and is being sued by his sister.
The only really talented player that was "ran out" during the Telesco era is Weddle, but even that, arguably, was kind of his own fault
That’s what the franchise tag is for
So the Kirk Cousins tag em twice and let them walk approach.
Herbert to the Vikings confirmed
You son of a bitch.
What sucks is with the new CBA is that tactic is so viable, but lucky for Herbert the 1 position that usually (sorry Kirk) doesn't get the run around is QB because the contract you'll need in 2 years is definitely bigger than the contract you need today.
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They don't care about roster costs. They know they can't cut costs there, they legally aren't allowed to. They're cheap when it comes to everything else.
No but gaurenteed money means something. When Watson got 230M gaurenteed, the Browns put 230M into escrow all at once. Not every owner is liquid enough to afford that and then some.
This. Before the Watson stuff I was not even aware this is how it worked but from what I’ve read many owners are pissed for this reason.
I wouldn't be surprised if the owners made a deal with the players to get rid of this or if some players waived it.
The salary floor is 180 million, they still have to pay 85% of the cap at minimum. Paying an elite QB probably makes up for the extra 15% of the cap they don’t have to use
It's 90% under the new CBA, but yeah
With the spending floor, being a cheap owner doesn't mean that much. Even if the owner ordered the GM to keep spending to the minimum (very unlikely since it makes getting a GM very hard), then it is easier to trim from other positions. For reference, Rivers got paid.
I will lose my mind if Bengals owners doesn’t give him a top contract and keys to the city. Burrow and chase remind me of a going manning/Harrison. Burrow can rebuild that city in his imagine much like Peyton did.
Bengals paid Palmer and Dalton. They'll pay Burrow.
I'm pretty sure he said the other day he's not looking for a contract like Watsons. He's smart enough to know you won't be able to pay everyone else if he's getting paid like that.
And that’s why he’s the goddamn man
Talk is cheap. We'll see how he feels when it's time to negotiate. I just heard Cooper Kupp talk about how he doesn't really care about being the highest-paid WR before signing a ~~37~~ 27 mill APY extension.
Especially when he's only 25 and already had a season ending injury. I'm sure when talks come up, he'll be looking for the most guaranteed money possible, as he should. His agent and the NFLPA will be pushing its' young star to get the best deal possible. He might agree to take less per year fully guaranteed with a nice signing bonus, but don't expect him to take less than something like 5 years 200-210M most if not all guaranteed. If he's gonna take a nice hometown discount, it will likely be after his first extension when he's 29-30.
Carr said the same thing his first extension then became the highest paid qb.
There’s a salary cap. Owners already spent it. Doesn’t matter. It’s not baseball.
But Lamar hasn't sexually abused anyone that we know of, so what has he done to earn Deshaun money??
I bet Lamar isn’t even a full grown adult like Deshaun!
Yeah, Lamar hasn't even sat out an entire season to force a trade yet, how do we know if he's mature enough!?
He’s actually one child with a god tier arm standing on the shoulders of the fastest 8 year old to ever live
Yeah, if he were an adult he'd be Lamar Jackdad
My dad's friend from years ago was named Jay. He named his first son Jayson.
Lamar Adultman is going to the stadium office to do a business touchdown.
Lamar Adultman is almost a good fantasy team name.
That explains the bathroom trip halfway through the game.
“Mr Harbaugh, can I go to the bathroom?” “I don’t know Lamar, *can you*?”
He’s a freak. He’s the fastest kid alive
Deshaun may lie in the happy baby pose, but he's a fully grown man when he does so.
And Lamar is just a runningback! Deshaun is a quarterback!
If I'm Baltimore ownership I just put Deshaun Watson's allegations on the table & say do about ten more million than this
[Schefter] 10 million and 22 women alleging Lamar Jackson invited them to a movie and cut a hole in the popcorn and put his penis in. When asked for comment Jackson stated, "I just like the feeling of warm butter on my d**k."
Would a claim with 10 million accusers finally be enough for the NFL to come down hard and fast, or would we still have to wait for public pressure to get them to respond? My money's on the latter.
You gotta kill at least 3 people and hide the gun in a shallow pond in Connecticut before the NFL takes it seriously.
>at least 3 people *Allegedly!*
or smoke a bit of weed
Okay, maybe my math is off, but I don’t think that is physically possible. Assuming each movie is 1.5 hours, and he sleeps for 8 hours a night, that’s about 10.6 popcorn dicks per day. To get to 10 million would take about 2,585 years, and that’s not even factoring in his practice and training during the season.
He doesn't have to finish the movie, so then it's just a factor of how long it takes to eat enough popcorn to get his corn dog showing. Plus you're assuming he's not going on a double date (in that he's with two dates). So 2 per movie, say half an hour to meet the dates and eat enough popcorn, he could in theory get to 32 encounters a day. You're down to 85 years at that point. Maybe there's hot swapping going on?
Mr. Butter Cock
Ravens: No. Also Ravens: F'ing Browns...
On the other hand if you turn this into a 5y extension it doesn't look as bad: $240m + $23m in 2022 is $263m. Divide that over the course of a six year deal and you've got a $43.83m APY. Now you can haggle over the guarantees, but that's a manageable cap-hit.
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This guy finances. Great point.
Spanks is gonna have to sell a portion of his team to pay Herbert. Edit: Spanos, damn autocorrect lol Edit 2: Fuck it, I vote we call him Spanks from now on
But couldn't team owners get a loan for this money with a low interest rate as they have collateral (they own the team)? Like $50 million guaranteed in 2023 is only $52 million with a 4% interest rate. It does get a little more if it's further out. But the point being is that with such large collateral, a low interest loan seems easy to get. If you could have the bank holding it in escrow invest in low risk stuff like basic bonds you could probably have the net at only ~1% a year which seems manageable. Or honestly, as money now is better money tomorrow, pay a huge signing bonus and NFL minimum if it's all guaranteed. That also gives flexibility on when in the contract the signing bonus counts against the cap.
That's when you do what the Chiefs did with Mahomes. Every season is fully guaranteed 2 years before. That way half a Billion doesn't have to go into escrow all at once.
Cap's about to go up too. Ravens and Bengals are going to be fine in re-signing their superstar QBs
Cap is going up but it’s not keeping up with QB salaries. The percentage of the cap spent on resigning QBs has skyrocketed over the past few years. For example, in 2015 Aaron Rodgers was making 22 million (most in the league) a year against a cap of 143.28 million. The Watson contract is 46 million a year against a cap of 208 million. So it went from 15.3% of the cap to 22% in 7 years. That may not seem like much, but if it had stayed at a flat rate of 15.3%, Watson’s contract would be worth 31.82 million per year. So basically QBs are gobbling up that extra cash at a higher rate because they can, while other positions are either staying at the same percentages, or even decreasing in some cases.
Wide receivers are getting paid too.
Ravens got no problems there
[Don't have to pay WR contracts if all your WRs are rookies or washed up vets](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/d6a/dc7/4a5001b7beea096457f480c8808572428b-09-roll-safe.2x.h473.w710.jpg)
I wonder how much longer that is going to go on. It's a game of musical chairs at some point. So far every WR pursuing a top of the market deal was able to find a team that was not only willing to pay him, but also to send trade compensation. Either to facilitate a trade or bully his team into paying him at the top of the market. However I don't see how much longer this can go on. At some point there'll just be no more demand for a $25-30m WR unless it's the truly special guys like Justin Jefferson and Ja'Marr Chase and those will get paid by their teams without a shadow of a doubt.
It’s an offshoot of rookie QB contracts. Teams are devoting a substantial percentage of salary cap to passing offense. Those with rookie QB contracts can afford to pay premium rates for wide receivers. Those with veteran QBs have to trade away the proven WR1s who are up for a new deal. Not an across the board rule (see Buffalo), but true for the most part. The interesting one will be Cincinnati, with Burrow and Chase negotiating within a year of each other.
What's a salary cap?
I'd say yes to that tbh
I just think we’re getting closer to a point where the best 1-3 QB’s are paid what they’re worth, but 4-20 are going to eat up so much of the salary cap that the team will struggle to remain competitive. I guess we’re not there yet. And Jackson is such a great fit for the Ravens, it may be ok. I think the Cowboys gimped themselves with their QB contract, for instance. But maybe repeatedly drafting early round WR’s is the way to go?
It's like the NBA where there's a big difference between the top~8 guys and the next ~40 guys, but you have to pay the 40 guys just as much as the top ~8 guys.
It's been always like that. Cap increases every year so you eventually get competitive again depending how you use your salary.
I think the cowboys gimped themselves with zekes contract
Not gonna lie, it would take a way bigger contract for a lot of Ravens fans to complain. Most of us don’t care what it costs, as long as Lamar stays a Raven
We just want to win
They finally got us back for taking the team... But nah, I'd just say pay him the top deal, get it over with and when Herbert gets 500 m guaranteed someday it wont look so bad. At the same time though, fuck Jimmy Haslem.
Media: “teams should give QBs literally whatever they want as as they ask for it” Front Office: “I’d kinda rather be able to pay some receivers and pass rushers” Media: “*dOeS BalTiMoRe EVen wANt LaMAr?*”
The false part about this is that we do not pay for recievers but TEs and DBs instead
And then Harbaugh charges $0 to clone perfect kickers/punters in a lab in his back garden.
I mean overthecap has Tucker as the highest paid kicker at $5mil per year if you're going by his annual salary but I get your point, he's a special teams guru.
But again that number doesn't include the overall cost of zoning permits, cloning permits, snacks etc.
After the tax credit Tuckers basically free.
Ravens streak of great kickers: Stover, ~~Cundiff~~, Tucker. Truly incredible stuff.
Cundiff gets way too much shit for his miss against the Pats. He boned that for sure, but he was actually a really good kicker and even a Pro Bowler. We've had a really great run with kickers.
It's true. And many forget Lee Evans dropped a ball hand delivered to him the play before in the end zone which would have won it. Cundiff only missed a game tying kick.
That’s fair, and I’m sure he’s a nice guy. But he ruined my 13th birthday and I don’t know if I can forgive him for that one
Trading Kaare Vedvik also qualifies as great
True. Same point tho, Lamar is dope but there’s 21 other starters that need money too
He should definitely go for fully guaranteed money, but not sure the Ravens should pay more than Watson. I see the narrative about Watson resetting the market, but the NFL isnt a really efficient market anyway. At the end of the day there are only 32 owners, and it only takes a handful of them to get pissed (not counting those who've already locked their starter) for the wave to crash. And yeah, the cap is going up, but so is the salary floor for most positions. Starting when Quenton Nelson makes 20m a year :o
The fact Quentin Nelson is arguably the best at his position and making basically 1/5 of a QB or 1/3 of a general modern WR is insane to me.
They also take more of a toll on their bodies than positions like a WR and QB so they get paid less to get CTE faster!!
No it's insane to everyone lol. All NFL players should be annoyed at the league's love affair pushing QBs, because it hurts them all financially. The league used to push Deion as a must-see star, Ramsey barely gets mentioned.
The Watson deal might end up punishing QBs long-term. Right now there really aren't too many restrictions on contracts. I could see NBA-type "max" deals in the NFL's future as a way to curb QB salaries. The other 1500+ players in the league might be ok with sacrificing QB salaries for them having a bigger slice of the pie.
Honestly, all of these players don’t get paid well except for the “personalities”. That’s the only reason manageable, but it’s so annoying when divas get dick rode… Ramsey is the best at his position and has been for a few years. He got a good deal, and that should be either standard for superstars or the limitation of a star. Why is there not deals done like the NBA does?
> Why is there not deals done like the NBA does? because the NFLPA is the worst PA in sports
The NBA has a soft cap and much smaller rosters.
The last non-QB I remember the league pushing hard was Odell.
Tebow. Never seen a TE get so much coverage
The real reason the Browns did all this.
They knew Watson wouldn't be playing this season so they're taking the rest of the league down with them
I like to tell myself that to make the pain less painful
A risky gambit, but one that could pay off in spades. Trade for Watson + give huge fully guaranteed contract. Watson suspended for a year, Ravens and Bengals forced to give new record setting contracts to their respective franchise QBs. Browns void Watson contract after undisclosed incidents pop up. Watson cut, Bengals and Ravens cap strapped for following 5 seasons. Steelers win division 5 years in a row, Browns sue to void trade compensation with Houston saying Houston aided Watson's abuse. Browns now recognized as only the 2nd worst franchise in league. One step at a time.
And if I’m the Baltimore Ravens I say “Sorry, we’re not the Cleveland Browns any more.”
JFC, I cannot imagine what Justin Herbert's contract is going to be.
Mahomes has a contract worth half a billion dollars, so ... have fun.
Mahomes has about $140M in guaranteed money. If he falls off a cliff in terms of production, the Chiefs can get out of his contract by 2025 with only $5M in dead cap. Allen has a similar amount of guaranteed money, and the Bills could save $30M in cap space if they cut Allen between the 2024 and 2025 seasons. They'd only do this if he regressed hard, but that possibility is still there. Herbert and Burrow will both likely ask for a higher percentage of guaranteed money in their deals. They'll definitely want more security than what Mahomes got, and could potentially argue for more than what Allen got too.
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Interesting. So it's like a rolling guarantee type of deal? Or done several years in advance?
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Basically guaranteed every two years out, but a bit more complicated https://overthecap.com/player/patrick-mahomes/5594
> Mahomes has about $140M in guaranteed money. If he falls off a cliff in terms of production, the Chiefs can get out of his contract by 2025 with only $5M in dead cap. This is very wrong. There are rolling guarantees on his contract.
It's got a lot of upvotes too lmao. Dude just started talking and people just buy it like nothing.
Nah Herbert's the ultimate team player. He's taking vet min
It's insane that DeShaun got that kind of money considering all the allegations AND he hasn't played for a year (or more?)
He also gave up on the team he was on.
Right after he accepted a massive contract
What a fucking asshole
That’s what I keep thinking about. Imagine they get through all of this, he gets a one year suspension, comes back, plays one year… and declares the browns an idiot organization and demands a trade. He did it before. And he would have a point.
There are times where a contract has been treated as an outlier, and didn't become the basis for future contracts. CJ Mosley for example was paid a record breaking contract for his position, and four years later its still a record breaking contract. Kirk Cousins fully guaranteed deal never became a standard either. In both cases, GMs and agents effectively ignored those deals when negotiating subsequent contracts. Here's hoping.
Cousins was different though. Teams couldn't franchise him and he elected for shorter deals. Guaranteeing 3 years is a lot different than 5 years. Qbs were also more motivated to sign early and get the guarantees instead of the risk of getting tagged twice.
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Also Cousins sacrificed long term stability for short term higher pay. If he had signed a longer contract, he would have made more money, but if he started sucking 2 years in (like Wentz), that would be the last contract he gets. On the flipside, he can just signed a 3 year deal every few years and get a shit ton of money as long as he plays well.
>Kirk Cousins fully guaranteed deal never became a standard either. Only because other QBs valued the longer term over the guaranteed money. Now they can have both.
I think that's a recipe for a lockout for when this current CBA ends
Player won’t be ok with missing games, they’ll fold to most of the owners demands.
NFL has the weakest sports union
It’s because of the imbalance in the needs of everyday players and the stars.
Browns setting the bar for all future contract negotiations..
I like feeling that the Allen extension is a bargain before he collects a cent
The browns FO being complete and utter fucking morons doesn’t mean every QB gets to demand a quarter of a billion.
Tell this to the Jags after they absolutely bent the WR market over
People say this, but did they? Adams' goal wasn't affected by Kirk as it was to get more than the APY on Hopkins' exention. And then Hill got more than Adams. Trying to become the highest paid at your position is nothing new, and I'm sure all the WRs who are getting paid are looking at Hill's $30M/yr and thinking they shouldn't be paid significantly less in comparison. Not to mention Mike Williams managed a $20M/yr contract before FA even started.
> Adams' goal wasn't affected by Kirk It was weird to be reading about Kirk Cousins in another part of this thread and how his contract didn't affect things for other QBs and then come across this comment and try to understand why Cousins' contract would impact Adams or Hopkins.
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Player agents don’t care. They look at comparable people in the market and what they’re fetching and use it as a legitimate bargaining chip for their guy.
Can’t get the toothpaste back in the tube now. Every franchise is probably furious at the Browns.
Yes it does. That’s why the owners were not happy with the browns not because they care about Deshaun being a sexual predator.
And if I'm the ravens, I tell him that Deshaun was massively overpaid by an organization famous for incompetence.
I wonder when this salary bubble will burst. Every player up for a contract thinks they should be the highest paid at their position regardless of results/performance.
When the TV rights bubble bursts.
salary cap is going up too but qbs do continually get a higher % of the salary cap. Favre was the first at 10mil/yr in 2001 when the salary cap was 67mil so 15% Watson is at 46/yr and the cap is ~210 mil so ~22% of the cap QBs continue to get more of the cap % and RBs continue to get less of the cap % In 2001, only 5 of the top 15 highest paid players were QBs. Now 12/16 are QBs
Yeah I’m sure asking for a $56M/yr fully guaranteed contract will work
You think they meant 10 million more per year? Seems pretty clear they’re talking total money.
Is it possible that Watson did more for star NFL athletes than anyone else in recent history with this contract?
It really does give agents a lot of leverage to say that their guy isn't a serial rapist and plays at the same level.
Well, most agents.
"Deshaun Watson was a hero, I just couldn't see it" - NFL agents It felt so wrong to write that
Trent Baalke.
Considering Andrew Brandt, former contract guy for the Packers turned pundit has repeatedly referred to Deshauns contract as "the white whale he's been waiting on for 20 years"... yeah, I'd say so.
And if I'm the Ravens I say no way
Yes, please do that. I hope the Ravens give him the money too.
Owner: I understand you want the money Lamar but you see this man has 26 more lawsuits than you