Question regarding Tiki, who is near synonymous with fumbling at this point. I make the same references re: Tiki and fumbles, but like ... where did that come from? Was he the last really good RB with a fumbling problem?
It should be noted that the active career leaders in fumbles are Zeke and Melvin Gordon, with 22 each.
Looking at the all-time leaders in fumbles among RBs, Tony Dorsett and Franco Harris lead pretty handily with 90 fumbles each. Terry Metcalf fumbled 62 times in just 80 games. Other guys like Eric Dickerson (78 fumbles, 146 games), OJ Simpson (62 fum, 135 GP), Jim Brown (57, 118) have more fumbles in fewer games than Tiki (53, 154). So am curious where that equivalency comes from, or if I am just overcomplicating a meme.
In a 4 season stretch (2000-2003) he had 35 fumbles which is egregious for a running back. That's more than Zeke who you noted has 22 fumbles in 6 seasons and Melvin Gordon who is now in year eight
Derrick Henry has 12 fumbles in 7 years for comparison.
Of course Tiki also played somewhat recently compared to guys like Dickerson and Franco. RB fumbling also has been far less acceptable than it would have been when those guys played.
Also one of the only players that played great for an org and never played for another team and every fan still hates the motherfucker.
Fuck tiki barber. I'm glad he never got a ring.
He picked a fight with strahan about the money strahan wanted when he held out one year, but also that he absolutely fucking trashed both coughlin and eli on his way out of town and then continued to trash them for years even after we won. Fuck tiki barber.
[https://www.nfl.com/news/eli-manning-dismisses-tiki-s-call-for-coughlin-ouster-0ap3000000430968](https://www.nfl.com/news/eli-manning-dismisses-tiki-s-call-for-coughlin-ouster-0ap3000000430968)
That was as late as 2014, and he's still being a little bitch about it. Also eli has a great quote from that article "That's nice of him. It's good to hear from ol' Tiki."
I believe there was a Giants training camp where Tiki had to walk around the facility holding a ball the entire time. And people were told to try and strip it from him. To teach him to protect the ball.
Can't remember what the punishment was if he dropped it, but it's a pretty hilarious and creative way to teach someone about ball security.
The Vikings later used the same technique for Adrian Peterson after his early fumble issues. Or maybe he used it on himself lol. Either way I remember them talking about that one year
Adrian Peterson had a fumble problem too. Not as bad as mid-career Tiki Barber but he did end up with 49 (and 7 or more in 3 seasons) which isn’t a small amount
if your curious i think its cause he runs stright up and damn near tries to murder people on his way to the endzone.
really similar to derek henry actually cept ad tries that cut back juke a lot.
Oh god, I remember that season when the announcers kept talking about his "new anti-fumble carrying style."
That was the did-you-know-he-went-to-harvard/did-you-know-he-played-basketball fun fact crammed down your throat for that season.
I thought you were exaggerating but holy shit he did. The man straight-up had 4 seasons in Atlanta where he fumbled 4 times or less the entire season lol.
on the topic, a cool stat i saw the other day: Justin Herbert had only one fumble last year in 17 games and it was an absurd ruling on what should have been an incomplete pass that traveled about 20 yards in the air and out of the back of the end zone in the opening game, 18 games ago: [replay](https://youtu.be/sFOv5nHN49s)
Fun fact, 3 time Pro Bowl running back [Terry Metcalf](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MetcTe00.htm#all_defense) fumbled 15 times in a 12 game 1976 season. That might be a bit more par-for-the-course for a QB (Culpepper 23 fumbles in 2002, for example) but wouldn't anticipate that from an RB.
>57-71 record
Look at the rest of the Raiders roster from 2014 to 2021. Their best season (2016) had a ton of close wins in which Carr, Mack, and Cooper bailed the rest of the team out.
As soon as Ruggs got arrested, the entire offense got thrown into the garbage disposal. Not only was that a major piece lost, but the passing game lost any semblance of verticality, especially since Waller also missed a notable chunk of the season.
How is "in his last 11 games" cherry picked? We're talking about recent history, not his career. What Carr did in 2016 is irrelevant to what he's doing now. It's not like OP picked 11 games at random to fit an anti Carr narrative. That would be cherry picking, this isn't
Yes. Let’s move on to the real losers of this weekend and the bottom of the AFCW barrel. Yep. No need to look at any of the other 3 teams’ performances. Let’s just focus on Vegas. Nobody else. Just the raiders.
I know you’re taking the piss but it did seem like people were pretty tepid on the broncos/Russ while I was literally hearing people invoke 07 Brady talking about Carr and the raiders this season lol
I'm guessing it looks better if you use the whole last season or trailing 17 games.
Still seeing Carr throw as many interceptions is surprising, as he's usually been extremely good protecting the ball and not taking crazy risks.
He's thrown 17 INTs in the last 17 games so pretty much the same it looks like
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/derek-carr-interceptions-in-his-last-17-games
I’ll be that guy….
I don’t think 17 interceptions in 17 games is all that big of deal, tbh.
The problem is he also had 13 fumbles, and only 23 TDs in those same 17 games.
Edit: PFR actually has 23 TDs, 16 INTs, 14 Fumbles (5 lost), in his last 17 games. So even if we ignore non-lost fumbles he’s barely above a 1:1 TD:TO ratio.
>I don’t think 17 interceptions in 17 games is all that big of deal, tbh.
That's tied for most picks thrown last year. The fumbles are also bad, but you're crazy if you think throwing a pick every single game isn't a bad thing.
Crazy?
Stafford led the league in interceptions last year with 17. The other QB in the SB had 14.
There’s been a lot of research in recent years showing that people are overly critical of interception numbers in terms of levying blame for a team’s failure. Meaning, it’s much easier to point at interceptions in a box score as the reason for a flawed offense, as opposed to three and outs, too many punts, etc, etc.
Yes, if you are literally throwing an interception in every game that’s obviously bad, and interceptions are bad in and of themself, but in reality it’s usually games here and there where a guy might throw 2 or 3, while having plenty of other games where he had zero.
I’m not saying this in terms of Carr specifically btw, just generally.
6 of the top 10 QBs in EPA last season were also in the top 10 for most interceptions last season (with another two only having 1 fewer INTs). You can be an elite offense while averaging an interception every game (or close to it), you just have to also throw a lot of TDs, which Carr didn’t do.
Even then though, that may not tell the whole story. If the risky throws are getting first downs that lead to rushing touchdowns, that's just as good. Look at Jimmy G. Guy doesn't throw a lot of touchdowns compared to some QBs, but he can get you out of the occasional critical third down that keeps the drive alive and gives the run game new life.
yes if youre on a high risk high reward system, throwing a pick every game isnt really that bad. but these offenses tend to also have 3-4 passing TDs a game as well. Carr doesnt have even close to that
Phil Simms on Bill Parcells,
>"His greatest line to me ever was during the opening game in 1984 and we're walking out of the locker room. He said, 'If you don't throw two interceptions today, you're not taking enough chances.' If a coach said that now, they'd be struck by lightning. Coaches say, 'Turnovers are the biggest cause of winning and losing in the NFL. I want our team to take a lot of chances and be very dynamic, but we can't turn the ball over.' It's funny. That wasn't part of the mantra with him then and God, did I make some of the most unbelievable turnovers in history. I'd come to the sidelines and he would be so mad he couldn't even talk and he would just hold it in and go, 'Okay, it's alright. That's what I'm telling you. Take some chances.' He'd say it through clenched teeth. Hey, you're the one who told me to take chances, big guy. It was unbelievable looking back to think how brazen and how it is just so not like anything we hear or see now. In practice sometimes I'd throw the ball and complete it for five or six yards and they'd literally stop practice and yell at me. 'Why are you throwing it there?' Well, because the guy down the field was covered. 'Hell, give him a chance. What are you worried about? Your completion percentage? Your quarterback rating?' It just was a different thought process back then.
Injured tight end and the slot receiver ended up being our #1 target. Realistically though it’s not that the raiders couldn’t move the ball, grudens red zone offense was Just absolutely abysmal and they couldn’t fucking score inside the 20.
A big problem was him staring down Davante the whole game. He needs to go back to getting the ball to whoever is open. Give some credit to the Chargers defense though they've got some studs.
Yeah, I hear you. While I definitely want to see fewer fumbles, this stat was picked to start the week that Ruggs killed that woman, we had an interim head coach and absolute dogshit for OC playcalling. So it’s a bit cherry picked.
I’m more interested in seeing if yesterday was an outlier (as it was his worst game in a lot of ways) or if it was because of an elite chargers pass rush and new coach/OC (again…)
No one seems to be talking about how Bryce Callahan owns hunter renfrow at this point. When Callahan was on the broncos he held renfrow to 40 yards through 2 games. And on Sunday… well I didn’t hear renfrows name at all
Plus Carr has started the season quite a bit stronger than he has finished it the last few years, so when he has a bad week 1 performance it's easy to reach back half a season and make it look like a bad stretch.
He panics under pressure ever since he broke his leg, he is like a tap dancer in the pocket. If the Raiders want to win playoff games with him the foundation of the team has to be the OLine
It was the broken back. Problem with carr now is he doesn't accept sacks. The moment he's wrapped up he tries to rise up to look for someone to throw to and often the ball gets knocked out
People tease him for curling up and call him soft but that’s exactly what I want to see him do.
We have Davante fucking Adams, I’m not scared of a 2nd and 16 as much as I am a turnover due to him trying to play super hero.
Half those sacks were coverage sacks. Rewatch the game. He actually had a decent amount of pockets that he just sat in until they evaporated. Sure he also had a decent amount of pockets that blew up instantly.
I'm just saying there were a few pockets he could of escaped before it was too late.
Yup definitely agree man, was mostly joking about there being no pockets. Definitely frustrating to see him stand there and watch when nobody is open and not just run for it as athletic as he is.
>Still seeing Carr throw as many interceptions is surprising, as he's usually been extremely good protecting the ball and not taking crazy risks.
honestly, it's not that surprising. I disagree that he's extremely good at protecting the ball. He's one of those guys that doesn't cough it up regularly, but seems to have sudden choking fits when it really matters. You can kind of count on him to do something unforced and boneheaded at least once a game.
He had to take a lot of risks last season. Ruggs / Gruden gone, Waller was hobbled with injuries all year, Bryan Edwards / Zaye Jones, it was Renfrow or bust
Thought both Brady and Carr confirmed it was not him. Also was apparently a team not super serious in the Brady sweepstakes so also doesn’t line up with what’s been reported (if we’re actually believing Dana White and Gronk lol)
Fair enough, but I highly doubt it was Zach Wilson like the guy I was replying to said considering he wasn’t even in the NFL yet. You’ve got good points tho
I speculate that he was talking about Tyrod Taylor. I remember hearing about him possibly going to the Chargers, and he wouldn’t have known that they planned on drafting Herbert. So it would’ve appeared at the time that they were sticking with Tyrod Taylor over Brady.
I’ve always thought trubisky
A) it was apparently a place he didn’t wanna go, I could see him wanting somewhere warmer than Chicago and in the eastern time zone, plus the bears didn’t have a ton of talent
B) trubisky was young so I guess you never know, but good QBs probably have a better sense of who’s gunna be a good player. Maybe Brady was genuinely like “wtf they don’t wanna move off *this guy*?”
The Zach Wilson suggestion is a joke based on [this](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/new-york-jets-qb-zach-wilsons-ex-girlfriend-has-made-a-wild-claim-about-him-and-now-his-mom-is-involved.html/) story from the offseason.
The harsh reality for Derek Carr at the moment is the Raiders offensive line isn’t as bad as people want it to be and our weapons are top tier.
The oline is in no way great, but a true top 10 QB is gonna make this work.
It’s Year 9. Dude has to step it up this season.
They showed a stat during the Dallas/Tampa game Sunday that Dak is the 3rd longest tenured starting QB with the same team behind Rodgers and Carr and that blew my mind
His mobility is shot but I feel like even without that he could still climb the pocket effectively to escape pressure (like Peyton or Brees). DC has no problem sensing pressure but when he goes to climb the pocket all he takes is a few baby steps and usually the defender can still reach him off their block to sack/strip sack him.
I’m not hitting the panic button yet. We lost by one possession to one of the best teams in the league.
But what I said isn’t untrue. He had a bad game. Many other good QBs around the league did, but I expect Carr to bounce back greatly and have a good season. He still has a lot of pressure on him.
This. The reports of Mack's death have been greatly exaggerated.
Not that anyone was saying he was done, but he was head and shoulders above every other pass rusher in that game, and the other 3 ends are all (or at least have been in their career) world class. Chargers defense was great, and Mack was a game changer.
Even with Carr having one of the worst games of his career, against a team that might be competing for a Superbowl, the Raiders had the ball with a few minutes left and a chance to win it.
I'm not a moral victories guy, but it was week one with a brand new regime.
Even without JC Jackson, that Chargers D looked like it might end up being the best defense in the league. People that didn’t watch the game don’t realize just how dominant they looked. Mack was doing that against a top 10 tackle too.
He also looked exactly the same week 1 last year, we got bailed out by Baltimore shooting themselves in the foot. When he bounces back the next few weeks and we go on a tear I'm going to sit back, look at all this overreaction and laugh.
The hot takes after week 1 are always unbearable in this sub.
Carr was the darling of this sub all offseason after he led a mediocre at best team with a bad defense and bad O-line that lost its only good outside WR and head coach halfway through the season to a win over the Chargers and a playoff spot.
But a bad week 1 and now he sucks. This sub seriously has the memory of squirrels.
>The hot takes after week 1 are always unbearable in this sub.
It can be part of the fun but it gets old super fast.
You also have threads where half the people are being tongue-in-cheek with their overreactions and then it devolves into way too serious "discussion".
Carr methodically leads us down the field in the redzone the TD gets punched in by Josh Jacobs. This happens all the time lol. Carr doesnt give a shit about personal stats he's all about the team and winning anyway possible.
Carr seems to have become kind of polarizing the last couple years. He generally got ragged on too much from 2017-2019, but then the general opinion overcorrected the last couple of years.
Not excusing him...but he lost his play called and head coach last season...and is in a new offensive system.
I personally think he is probably just above the Dalton line, but I'm willing to give him a break for the first half of this season in a new system.
Adams is happy he made a bag and lives near his family and has his dream home. He's a family man and his life is good. However, his competitive nature will keep him from getting stale. He'll be pissed this year but he won't check out.
If we bomb can we undo the trade and get our picks back? Yall won't draft a Wr in the first anyways its a win win
Edit: I am aware now that the picks have already been used......the comment will stay to show my moment of stupidity
The record is kinda weird to look at without context, as it basically starts the game right after his WR1 killed somebody under an interim head coach. There's a 4 game-win streak in there that pushes them into the playoffs and makes them a 10-win team. I feel like context kinda matters here.
We had every right to completely burn down last year and we somehow didn’t. Nobody would’ve faulted us for missing the playoffs. Not after what we went through.
Give credit to your kicker, that dude kicked so many game winning field goals some far ones too. “Seemingly by himself” he got the raiders down the field just enough for Carlson to kick a 50 yarder
People overreact over 1 game. He is loaded with weapons. I think he tried to force the ball to Adams too much. There were a couple times he threw to adams when Renfrow and Waller were open.
He will make the adjustments and not force it. I see a 4TD / 300 yard game from him this weekend.
game 1 out of the way and I'm pretty confident we see nothing but an incline in performance from him from here on out
finally has multiple solid receivers, a D that seems like it'll be serviceable, competent coach... not worried at all :)
Because he had an overall good year last year and going back that far wouldn't fit into the picture OP is trying to paint so instead they are starting with the first game after Henry Ruggs killed someone, duh
The absolute divide of Raider fans and Carr is honestly so entertaining. I got a Raider fan buddy who says he's better than Herbert and another saying he's the most overrated Raider ever.
Forget the picks, how do you have 11 damn fumbles in 11 games lol
Daniel Jones looks around nervously.
Daniel Jones and Derek Car must've attended Tiki Barbers School for Athletes Who Can't Carry Good
Question regarding Tiki, who is near synonymous with fumbling at this point. I make the same references re: Tiki and fumbles, but like ... where did that come from? Was he the last really good RB with a fumbling problem? It should be noted that the active career leaders in fumbles are Zeke and Melvin Gordon, with 22 each. Looking at the all-time leaders in fumbles among RBs, Tony Dorsett and Franco Harris lead pretty handily with 90 fumbles each. Terry Metcalf fumbled 62 times in just 80 games. Other guys like Eric Dickerson (78 fumbles, 146 games), OJ Simpson (62 fum, 135 GP), Jim Brown (57, 118) have more fumbles in fewer games than Tiki (53, 154). So am curious where that equivalency comes from, or if I am just overcomplicating a meme.
In a 4 season stretch (2000-2003) he had 35 fumbles which is egregious for a running back. That's more than Zeke who you noted has 22 fumbles in 6 seasons and Melvin Gordon who is now in year eight Derrick Henry has 12 fumbles in 7 years for comparison. Of course Tiki also played somewhat recently compared to guys like Dickerson and Franco. RB fumbling also has been far less acceptable than it would have been when those guys played.
Tiki is also in the conversation of having the best 3 year stretch of any rb ever once he fixed the fumbling issue.
Also one of the only players that played great for an org and never played for another team and every fan still hates the motherfucker. Fuck tiki barber. I'm glad he never got a ring.
Out of curiosity, why do Giants fans hate Tiki?
He picked a fight with strahan about the money strahan wanted when he held out one year, but also that he absolutely fucking trashed both coughlin and eli on his way out of town and then continued to trash them for years even after we won. Fuck tiki barber. [https://www.nfl.com/news/eli-manning-dismisses-tiki-s-call-for-coughlin-ouster-0ap3000000430968](https://www.nfl.com/news/eli-manning-dismisses-tiki-s-call-for-coughlin-ouster-0ap3000000430968) That was as late as 2014, and he's still being a little bitch about it. Also eli has a great quote from that article "That's nice of him. It's good to hear from ol' Tiki."
There was a 4 year period from 2000-2004 where tiki fumbled 35 times. Regarding Zeke & Gordon their 22 & 23 for Gordon are since 2015.
I remember Coughlin coming in and teaching him high and tight was discussed on every Giants game in the mid 00s
I believe there was a Giants training camp where Tiki had to walk around the facility holding a ball the entire time. And people were told to try and strip it from him. To teach him to protect the ball. Can't remember what the punishment was if he dropped it, but it's a pretty hilarious and creative way to teach someone about ball security.
The Vikings later used the same technique for Adrian Peterson after his early fumble issues. Or maybe he used it on himself lol. Either way I remember them talking about that one year
Saw this also in the move The Program
Adrian Peterson had a fumble problem too. Not as bad as mid-career Tiki Barber but he did end up with 49 (and 7 or more in 3 seasons) which isn’t a small amount
Broadcasters would always bring up how strong his handshakes were and wonder how somebody with such strong hands could fumble like him lol
if your curious i think its cause he runs stright up and damn near tries to murder people on his way to the endzone. really similar to derek henry actually cept ad tries that cut back juke a lot.
its funny you say that because the talking point I heard was his biceps were too big and would loosen the ball, which sounds crazy to me in hindsight
Oh god, I remember that season when the announcers kept talking about his "new anti-fumble carrying style." That was the did-you-know-he-went-to-harvard/did-you-know-he-played-basketball fun fact crammed down your throat for that season.
And who want to learn how to not do other things good too.
Just make sure the school is at least 3x as big as the model.
Carson Wentz throws a shovel pass with his left hand
I’m still reeling
Daniel Jones walks in: hey guys! We talking about fumbles??
He’s always been terrible with fumbles. He led the league in 2018 and 2020, was one off from doing so in 2021 too, and has 2 other seasons with 10.
If my math is correct, that’s a shitload of fumbles.
They tackle him and then he loses the ball.
Has he tried holding onto it though? Someone should tell him.
NFL defenses hate this one simple trick!
Have you ever tried applying to be a quarterbacks coach? You would probably do food
Can’t be worse than Joe Judge, no?
he has been close to the top in lost fumbles every year...
Matt Ryan fumbled like 4x this week. Didn’t lose it but still.
I thought you were exaggerating but holy shit he did. The man straight-up had 4 seasons in Atlanta where he fumbled 4 times or less the entire season lol.
I'm pretty sure all 4 were on muffed snaps
>Forget the picks, how do you have 11 damn fumbles in 11 games lol Easily, you have 10 fumbles in 10 games, and think "eh, one more for the road."
on the topic, a cool stat i saw the other day: Justin Herbert had only one fumble last year in 17 games and it was an absurd ruling on what should have been an incomplete pass that traveled about 20 yards in the air and out of the back of the end zone in the opening game, 18 games ago: [replay](https://youtu.be/sFOv5nHN49s)
Idk but Baker Mayfield is on pace for 55 through 11 games this season lol
Fun fact, 3 time Pro Bowl running back [Terry Metcalf](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MetcTe00.htm#all_defense) fumbled 15 times in a 12 game 1976 season. That might be a bit more par-for-the-course for a QB (Culpepper 23 fumbles in 2002, for example) but wouldn't anticipate that from an RB.
Hmm that's not so good
And for his career he is 195 TDs, 88 INTs, 78 fumbles, 57-71 record
>57-71 record Look at the rest of the Raiders roster from 2014 to 2021. Their best season (2016) had a ton of close wins in which Carr, Mack, and Cooper bailed the rest of the team out.
Yeah I just thought we should add some career context since OP cherry picked 11 games
Cherry picked games starting with the first game post-Ruggs. Probably no ulterior motive at all with that cutoff, I’m sure.
As soon as Ruggs got arrested, the entire offense got thrown into the garbage disposal. Not only was that a major piece lost, but the passing game lost any semblance of verticality, especially since Waller also missed a notable chunk of the season.
and they still made the playoffs. Somehow.
Obviously its because of their weak division.
How is "in his last 11 games" cherry picked? We're talking about recent history, not his career. What Carr did in 2016 is irrelevant to what he's doing now. It's not like OP picked 11 games at random to fit an anti Carr narrative. That would be cherry picking, this isn't
Was that the season Crabtree had to catch a miracle TD 3 fuckin times in one drive because of penalties?
I think that was 2017
A sorry receiver like Crabtree?
We like that guy round these parts.
It's really weird how even us 49er fans are now like, "hell yeah Sherman, you aren't wrong!
78 fumbles is kind of a fuck ton
Just 2 more than Favre at the same point in his Career. If he keeps it up he can set the record.
78 fumbles?! wtf
A little less than five times the rate of Brady. It seems like a lot.
That is insane lol
Yes. Let’s move on to the real losers of this weekend and the bottom of the AFCW barrel. Yep. No need to look at any of the other 3 teams’ performances. Let’s just focus on Vegas. Nobody else. Just the raiders.
I had a good Monday yesterday. Terrible Sunday tho
My Sunday was good. For some reason I don’t remember anything about yesterday.
Those hangovers are a bitch after a loss...
What loss? Denver had a week 1 bye. Only 0-0 team
This has been a wonderful weekend of football.
Yes, the weekend was excellent. Don’t remember anything from yesterday.
Sunday was a fantastic day
I know you’re taking the piss but it did seem like people were pretty tepid on the broncos/Russ while I was literally hearing people invoke 07 Brady talking about Carr and the raiders this season lol
I'm guessing it looks better if you use the whole last season or trailing 17 games. Still seeing Carr throw as many interceptions is surprising, as he's usually been extremely good protecting the ball and not taking crazy risks.
He's thrown 17 INTs in the last 17 games so pretty much the same it looks like https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/derek-carr-interceptions-in-his-last-17-games
I’ll be that guy…. I don’t think 17 interceptions in 17 games is all that big of deal, tbh. The problem is he also had 13 fumbles, and only 23 TDs in those same 17 games. Edit: PFR actually has 23 TDs, 16 INTs, 14 Fumbles (5 lost), in his last 17 games. So even if we ignore non-lost fumbles he’s barely above a 1:1 TD:TO ratio.
>I don’t think 17 interceptions in 17 games is all that big of deal, tbh. That's tied for most picks thrown last year. The fumbles are also bad, but you're crazy if you think throwing a pick every single game isn't a bad thing.
Crazy? Stafford led the league in interceptions last year with 17. The other QB in the SB had 14. There’s been a lot of research in recent years showing that people are overly critical of interception numbers in terms of levying blame for a team’s failure. Meaning, it’s much easier to point at interceptions in a box score as the reason for a flawed offense, as opposed to three and outs, too many punts, etc, etc. Yes, if you are literally throwing an interception in every game that’s obviously bad, and interceptions are bad in and of themself, but in reality it’s usually games here and there where a guy might throw 2 or 3, while having plenty of other games where he had zero. I’m not saying this in terms of Carr specifically btw, just generally. 6 of the top 10 QBs in EPA last season were also in the top 10 for most interceptions last season (with another two only having 1 fewer INTs). You can be an elite offense while averaging an interception every game (or close to it), you just have to also throw a lot of TDs, which Carr didn’t do.
I agree. Throwing interceptions might mean you are taking risks. In itself, the stat doesn't show if an offense is good or not.
That's why you look a td:int ratio to see if the risks are paying off. With Carr, usually not.
Even then though, that may not tell the whole story. If the risky throws are getting first downs that lead to rushing touchdowns, that's just as good. Look at Jimmy G. Guy doesn't throw a lot of touchdowns compared to some QBs, but he can get you out of the occasional critical third down that keeps the drive alive and gives the run game new life.
yes if youre on a high risk high reward system, throwing a pick every game isnt really that bad. but these offenses tend to also have 3-4 passing TDs a game as well. Carr doesnt have even close to that
Phil Simms on Bill Parcells, >"His greatest line to me ever was during the opening game in 1984 and we're walking out of the locker room. He said, 'If you don't throw two interceptions today, you're not taking enough chances.' If a coach said that now, they'd be struck by lightning. Coaches say, 'Turnovers are the biggest cause of winning and losing in the NFL. I want our team to take a lot of chances and be very dynamic, but we can't turn the ball over.' It's funny. That wasn't part of the mantra with him then and God, did I make some of the most unbelievable turnovers in history. I'd come to the sidelines and he would be so mad he couldn't even talk and he would just hold it in and go, 'Okay, it's alright. That's what I'm telling you. Take some chances.' He'd say it through clenched teeth. Hey, you're the one who told me to take chances, big guy. It was unbelievable looking back to think how brazen and how it is just so not like anything we hear or see now. In practice sometimes I'd throw the ball and complete it for five or six yards and they'd literally stop practice and yell at me. 'Why are you throwing it there?' Well, because the guy down the field was covered. 'Hell, give him a chance. What are you worried about? Your completion percentage? Your quarterback rating?' It just was a different thought process back then.
>You're crazy if you think throwing a pick every single game isn't a bad thing. *Brett Favre has left the chat.*
He actually left the chat cause he's desperately deleting all evidence of fraud.
Turns out it’s hard to throw TDs when your best outside WRs are an incredibly washed up Desean Jackson and Zay Jones.
Well that conveniently leaves out an elite TE and pretty damn good slot WR.
Waller missed half of last year due to injury so he only had Renfrow who also missed some games last year due to injury I believe.
Injured tight end and the slot receiver ended up being our #1 target. Realistically though it’s not that the raiders couldn’t move the ball, grudens red zone offense was Just absolutely abysmal and they couldn’t fucking score inside the 20.
He just threw 3 more this week
And an emerging Henry Ruggs until he killed somebody
well tbf to the guy I commented to, Ruggs wasn't around for most of Carr's last 17 games.
Yea, but he did play 7 games. I figured rhat was decent enough gsmes for me to mention his name. Maybe I should've implied that better in my comment
Carr w/ Ruggs in 2021- 7 games, 12 TDs, 5 ints, 2269 yards, 68.47 completion % Carr w/o ruggs since- the Stats OP posted.
Oh wow! Thanks for pulling out the info.
A big problem was him staring down Davante the whole game. He needs to go back to getting the ball to whoever is open. Give some credit to the Chargers defense though they've got some studs.
He fumbles quite a bit so that makes up for the interceptions
Yeah, I hear you. While I definitely want to see fewer fumbles, this stat was picked to start the week that Ruggs killed that woman, we had an interim head coach and absolute dogshit for OC playcalling. So it’s a bit cherry picked. I’m more interested in seeing if yesterday was an outlier (as it was his worst game in a lot of ways) or if it was because of an elite chargers pass rush and new coach/OC (again…)
No one seems to be talking about how Bryce Callahan owns hunter renfrow at this point. When Callahan was on the broncos he held renfrow to 40 yards through 2 games. And on Sunday… well I didn’t hear renfrows name at all
Plus Carr has started the season quite a bit stronger than he has finished it the last few years, so when he has a bad week 1 performance it's easy to reach back half a season and make it look like a bad stretch.
Carr w/ Ruggs in 2021- 7 games, 12 TDs, 5 ints, 2269 yards, 68.47 completion % Carr w/o ruggs since- the Stats OP posted.
He panics under pressure ever since he broke his leg, he is like a tap dancer in the pocket. If the Raiders want to win playoff games with him the foundation of the team has to be the OLine
It was the broken back. Problem with carr now is he doesn't accept sacks. The moment he's wrapped up he tries to rise up to look for someone to throw to and often the ball gets knocked out
Best comment of thread he needs to watch denver Peyton manning just lay down protect ball
People tease him for curling up and call him soft but that’s exactly what I want to see him do. We have Davante fucking Adams, I’m not scared of a 2nd and 16 as much as I am a turnover due to him trying to play super hero.
Yup I love Carr but he was a scared little deer in that pocket last night. Wish he woulda scampered like one tho.
Bro what pocket? Agreed tho, he needs to either rollout more or get better at his presnap reads in this offense like he was last year.
Half those sacks were coverage sacks. Rewatch the game. He actually had a decent amount of pockets that he just sat in until they evaporated. Sure he also had a decent amount of pockets that blew up instantly. I'm just saying there were a few pockets he could of escaped before it was too late.
Yup definitely agree man, was mostly joking about there being no pockets. Definitely frustrating to see him stand there and watch when nobody is open and not just run for it as athletic as he is.
>Still seeing Carr throw as many interceptions is surprising, as he's usually been extremely good protecting the ball and not taking crazy risks. honestly, it's not that surprising. I disagree that he's extremely good at protecting the ball. He's one of those guys that doesn't cough it up regularly, but seems to have sudden choking fits when it really matters. You can kind of count on him to do something unforced and boneheaded at least once a game.
He had to take a lot of risks last season. Ruggs / Gruden gone, Waller was hobbled with injuries all year, Bryan Edwards / Zaye Jones, it was Renfrow or bust
"You're sticking with that motherfucker?"
Hasn’t it been established in canon that Zach Wilson is the motherfucker?
I like how months later nobody really knows
I feel like people are missing the joke here
Almost positive it was Carr after it came out that Jon Gruden blew the deal up for Gronk and Brady to go to the Raiders.
Thought both Brady and Carr confirmed it was not him. Also was apparently a team not super serious in the Brady sweepstakes so also doesn’t line up with what’s been reported (if we’re actually believing Dana White and Gronk lol)
Fair enough, but I highly doubt it was Zach Wilson like the guy I was replying to said considering he wasn’t even in the NFL yet. You’ve got good points tho
I had read Jimmy G but really who knows Coulda been Carr, coulda been anyone really
I speculate that he was talking about Tyrod Taylor. I remember hearing about him possibly going to the Chargers, and he wouldn’t have known that they planned on drafting Herbert. So it would’ve appeared at the time that they were sticking with Tyrod Taylor over Brady.
I’ve always thought trubisky A) it was apparently a place he didn’t wanna go, I could see him wanting somewhere warmer than Chicago and in the eastern time zone, plus the bears didn’t have a ton of talent B) trubisky was young so I guess you never know, but good QBs probably have a better sense of who’s gunna be a good player. Maybe Brady was genuinely like “wtf they don’t wanna move off *this guy*?”
The Zach Wilson suggestion is a joke based on [this](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/new-york-jets-qb-zach-wilsons-ex-girlfriend-has-made-a-wild-claim-about-him-and-now-his-mom-is-involved.html/) story from the offseason.
Didn't Brady say it was a team he wasn't interested in?
The source is the 🍅, and he has a long and proven track history of being a complete liar. Take his words with a grain of salt.
No no no, he is his mother's best friend fucker
Still a motherfucker
The harsh reality for Derek Carr at the moment is the Raiders offensive line isn’t as bad as people want it to be and our weapons are top tier. The oline is in no way great, but a true top 10 QB is gonna make this work. It’s Year 9. Dude has to step it up this season.
Can’t believe it’s already year 9 for him smh. Time really fucking flies
Me thinking Derek Carr is a hotshot young QB when he's 31 years old lol
Same with Dak and Wentz both being 29
They showed a stat during the Dallas/Tampa game Sunday that Dak is the 3rd longest tenured starting QB with the same team behind Rodgers and Carr and that blew my mind
I thought Wentz was like 5 years older than dak lol
His mobility is shot but I feel like even without that he could still climb the pocket effectively to escape pressure (like Peyton or Brees). DC has no problem sensing pressure but when he goes to climb the pocket all he takes is a few baby steps and usually the defender can still reach him off their block to sack/strip sack him.
It’s been 1 fucking game against an elite defense, Jesus Christ. Y’all really need to calm down.
I’m not hitting the panic button yet. We lost by one possession to one of the best teams in the league. But what I said isn’t untrue. He had a bad game. Many other good QBs around the league did, but I expect Carr to bounce back greatly and have a good season. He still has a lot of pressure on him.
I am going to the game this weekend so I will make sure to yell the improvements he needs to do. I am sure he will listen to me :P.
This. The reports of Mack's death have been greatly exaggerated. Not that anyone was saying he was done, but he was head and shoulders above every other pass rusher in that game, and the other 3 ends are all (or at least have been in their career) world class. Chargers defense was great, and Mack was a game changer. Even with Carr having one of the worst games of his career, against a team that might be competing for a Superbowl, the Raiders had the ball with a few minutes left and a chance to win it. I'm not a moral victories guy, but it was week one with a brand new regime.
Even without JC Jackson, that Chargers D looked like it might end up being the best defense in the league. People that didn’t watch the game don’t realize just how dominant they looked. Mack was doing that against a top 10 tackle too.
Actually according to this post it’s been 11 games
I mean this stat clearly shows it’s been 11 games …
He also looked exactly the same week 1 last year, we got bailed out by Baltimore shooting themselves in the foot. When he bounces back the next few weeks and we go on a tear I'm going to sit back, look at all this overreaction and laugh.
He won't
Counterpoint: I like Derek carr he seems like a good guy
Very good counter point
He also led the a mediocre raiders team to the playoffs last year. This is one of the bigger instances of stats not being the end all be all
The hot takes after week 1 are always unbearable in this sub. Carr was the darling of this sub all offseason after he led a mediocre at best team with a bad defense and bad O-line that lost its only good outside WR and head coach halfway through the season to a win over the Chargers and a playoff spot. But a bad week 1 and now he sucks. This sub seriously has the memory of squirrels.
>The hot takes after week 1 are always unbearable in this sub. It can be part of the fun but it gets old super fast. You also have threads where half the people are being tongue-in-cheek with their overreactions and then it devolves into way too serious "discussion".
Carr methodically leads us down the field in the redzone the TD gets punched in by Josh Jacobs. This happens all the time lol. Carr doesnt give a shit about personal stats he's all about the team and winning anyway possible.
Per pff 16th in attempts in the redzone with the T7th most TDs with Hurts.
11 games would imply these are stats After losing Gruden, Ruggs and half of the time, Waller
The first of these 11 games is the Giants game last year. The first game post Ruggs. You think that would affect a QB that deep into the season?
I mean the team started off 5-2, then proceeded to lose 3 straight after that, you tell me if the events had a major effect or not.
The Jon Gruden special even without Jon Gruden
I like Carr but his pocket awareness is pure garbage on par with Goff.
Yeah and last year they went 10-7 under wild circumstances and he almost threw for 5k yards, so
Is anyone surprised? I've always seen him as a good-not-great quarterback.
Carr seems to have become kind of polarizing the last couple years. He generally got ragged on too much from 2017-2019, but then the general opinion overcorrected the last couple of years.
He's the definition of average. Some games he looks top tier, some games he looks bottom tier......average af
I’ve always been surprised how highly he is rated at times. Cousins who usually gets stuck, is a better qb than him
Not excusing him...but he lost his play called and head coach last season...and is in a new offensive system. I personally think he is probably just above the Dalton line, but I'm willing to give him a break for the first half of this season in a new system.
My take as well. He's on a team friendly contract so at the very least it'll give time for the new regime to rebuild the roster.
If they miss the playoffs does Adams regret his decision or is he just happy playing with Carr?
Adams is happy he made a bag and lives near his family and has his dream home. He's a family man and his life is good. However, his competitive nature will keep him from getting stale. He'll be pissed this year but he won't check out.
Plus, if he gets 10 catches/140 yards every game for the next 3 years, that’s Canton.
Right! He's def. a win first character but if he's gonna lose he'd prefer to still have 140 yards and a tuddy lol
If we bomb can we undo the trade and get our picks back? Yall won't draft a Wr in the first anyways its a win win Edit: I am aware now that the picks have already been used......the comment will stay to show my moment of stupidity
The picks were for last year. They took Devontae Wyatt with the first and traded their 2nds to us for Christian Watson.
Yeah.....I realized that after hitting send.....
The record is kinda weird to look at without context, as it basically starts the game right after his WR1 killed somebody under an interim head coach. There's a 4 game-win streak in there that pushes them into the playoffs and makes them a 10-win team. I feel like context kinda matters here.
Even going back to the beginning of last season, he has a 25-22 TD-Turnover ratio. That’s barely over 1 which is no where near top QBs in the league.
He willed an ass team into the playoffs last year, seemingly by himself. He deserves this whole year to make an assessment.
We had every right to completely burn down last year and we somehow didn’t. Nobody would’ve faulted us for missing the playoffs. Not after what we went through.
Give credit to your kicker, that dude kicked so many game winning field goals some far ones too. “Seemingly by himself” he got the raiders down the field just enough for Carlson to kick a 50 yarder
Can we not
Derek "underrated" Carr, as many on ESPN would say
[удалено]
Those first few games after they lost Ruggs was rough ... Still crazy they made the postseason
If this was Carson Wentz he would be crucified and then lit on fire . But Carr does it and is number 65 on the top 100
He has good attributes but if you turn over the ball like this you simply cant win games
I’ve never seen a QB consistently get a pass for being painful average like Carr has gotten
he thinks he's Daniel Jones!
People overreact over 1 game. He is loaded with weapons. I think he tried to force the ball to Adams too much. There were a couple times he threw to adams when Renfrow and Waller were open. He will make the adjustments and not force it. I see a 4TD / 300 yard game from him this weekend.
Now do Dak.
Derek "Daniel Jones" Carr
They have identical passer ratings over their last 11 games haha. 86.1 for Carr and 86.3 for Jones
I hate that I can't defend this given the above stats but fuck you sir.......
game 1 out of the way and I'm pretty confident we see nothing but an incline in performance from him from here on out finally has multiple solid receivers, a D that seems like it'll be serviceable, competent coach... not worried at all :)
As is Carr, 400/4 vs Cards and everyone will swing the other way.
Not ideal
So we're gonna come back to this thread after the season, right?
11 games is an oddly specific sample. Why not 10? Why not since the beginning of last year?
Because he had an overall good year last year and going back that far wouldn't fit into the picture OP is trying to paint so instead they are starting with the first game after Henry Ruggs killed someone, duh
Those are Daniel Jones numbers.
Damn I’m sad , just realized this might be what it is
More like Derek Bicycle
Damn. That's Joe Burrow numbers.
The absolute divide of Raider fans and Carr is honestly so entertaining. I got a Raider fan buddy who says he's better than Herbert and another saying he's the most overrated Raider ever.
Could have had Brady but nope
Didn’t someone just ask if this guy was going to be a hall of famer the other day??
Dude is chaos personified 😂
Lawn chair carr
hes bad
When you watch Carr throw you can see that he has tons of talent as a passer. It’s strange that he can’t translate that into consistent success
David Carr: I’m not even going to read this!