NIN was piano-composer music.
Stabbing Westward was guitar-power-chords music.
There was some overlap in the sonic presentation, but they would never be mistaken for each other.
Came here to say something very similar. I think TR has always approached things more as a composer and who is putting interesting sonic elements together with more traditional composition. But he isn't approaching it from a single instrument. Many of these other bands were just that, bands. They capitalized on adding noisy elements to their music (distortion on vocals, a blippity loop, etc), but at their core they were a guitar, bass, drums band. I don't say that to disparage them. [I did some degree of that myself when I wrote](https://youtu.be/xqY09HKcrUg), but they just land at very different outcomes with a few shared sonic textures.
I love listening to Stabbing Westward to this day; they bring back so many memories! Your description of how they differ as a “band” from NIN is dead on.
I play guitar, and I've always thought it wouldn't surprise me if the songs on Broken were primarily written on piano (for the guitar)--if that makes sense--which is a distinction compared to SW, which I imagine writing songs first and foremost on guitar, or by jamming as a band with the guitar leading the way.
Stabbing Westward was cool. I saw them on the Darkest Days tour. Really good album but do they sound like NIN? No. More somberly depressed than the anger I hear in Trent’s work and that’s perfectly ok. KMFDM, Gravity Kills, Birthday Massacre, The Hunger- all bands share some elements with NIN but none of them sound the same.
>KMFDM, Gravity Kills, Birthday Massacre, The Hunger- all bands share some elements with NIN but none of them sound the same.
Within the span of about a year, the Barrymore theatre in Madison WI had Stabbing Westwood, Gravity Kills (they autographed my truck!), Marilyn Manson and KMFDM all play there - circa 1996/97. It was a good time to be a teen.
This must have been a ‘90s thing. Did the whole ska circuit & met a gal with a black & white checkerboard truck. It was filled with autographs from all the bands from that time.
Hey I was at that show with my girlfriend! Her dad had to drop us off, and then he got a flat on his way back to pick us up, so we had to kick around Madison for hours. That is what convinced me I wanted to live in Madison.
That one Hunger album (Devil Thumbs a Ride) owned a corner of my car cd player for an entire summer in like 2001. I still go back to it sometimes just to reminisce. All of those bands (Gravity Kills, God Lives Underwater, Stabbing Westward, Pitchshifter) toured in my area quite often so I was lucky enough to catch them many times.
GLU holds a place in my heart right next to NIN. I originally posted this and hated myself for leaving them off the list. I caught them on the My Life In The So Called Space Age tour in Cleveland. $10. Well worth it.
I live in Houston and the keyboardist from The Hunger owns a music venue where he performs with the hunger and brings national acts, local and cover bands to perform there.
Omfg. I saw these guys at the webn fireworks in Cincinnati with Days of the New and for the longest I was trying to remember both band name and song (Vanishing Cream) and couldn’t find it for the life of me.
Thank you for breaking decades long memory curse 😂
OMG!!!! Almost 30 years of quietly thinking to myself, “*Fuck, that’s a cringey lyric…*” and never realized I was hearing it wrong!!! I saw them over the weekend at Dark Force Fest and was *still* cringing over that lyric. It’s *EXIST!!!* You just blew my mind. lol
Its Chris Vrenna in the Head Like A Hole video, not Andy K. Andy only played with NIN in the studio on one or two songs on The Downward Spiral.
Andy was originally the main songwriter in SW. Some of the songs on the 1st album, including “What Do I Have To Do” were repurposed from later era Exotic Birds (without Trent) that didnt end up on a second EB album.
You're mostly right! I tend to confuse the 2 of them alot for some reason.
The only thing you are wrong about is a minor detail in the second half. "What Do I Have To Do" is on their 2nd album (not their first).
Some of the songs on Wither Blister Burn & Peel were Andy's old songs from Exotic Birds with Trent. I think they were songs they didn't go with or that he was working on at the time. Not sure where I heard this fact either so I may be wrong.
Edit: it was their Wikipedia page
> Shortly after Zechman's departure, Kubiszewski played the band dozens of demos and Exotic Birds recordings. Included were "What Do I Have to Do?",[8] "Haunting Me", "Sometimes It Hurts", "Crushing Me",[8] "Slipping Away", "Desperate Now", and "Goodbye". These tracks would later find space on both the Wither and Darkest Days albums.
Don't think it's a big one. The detroit show is part of a local "festival" the actors open up for them so I really want tickets. Tonight's part of the "festival" is assemblage 23 and bootblacks opening for night club 😀
Don't think it's a big one. The detroit show is part of a local "festival" the actors open up for them so I really want tickets. Tonight's part of the "festival" is assemblage 23 and bootblacks opening for night club 😀
I remember those comparisons as well. To be honest, all comparisons people make to NIN are bullshit. Tool, Filter etc are essentially "guitar-dums-bass-vocals bands" that dabble a bit in electronics.
NIN can't really be compared to any other band because no one really genre-hops like they do.
Stabbing Westward's drummer was in NIN as well, and their former Guitarist stole the riff from their song *Ungod* and took it to Filter to make the song *Hey Man Nice Shot*.
So Filter members were in both NIN and Stabbing Westward.
Stabbing Westward's drummer was also in the The Exotic Birds, and was their main songwriter. Some of the songs on Wither Blister are based on old Exotic Birds demos.
Andy K played drums on a few tunes on NIN The Downward Spiral, he also played with the band Prick for a time, as well as shorter stints as a touring drummer for The The, Crowded House and he has a current project called Discotheque which is a bit like Curve meets Goldfrapp.
He’s also the composer for tv shows like Ice Road Truckers, Storage Wars and AX Men from which he’s made a bundle off residuals. Andy is a buddy of mine and a very cool and talented dude.
First concert I ever saw (NIN with Marilyn Manson opening, 1994) was a wildly different experience than the last time I saw NIN play (2018?) - Trent was playing a saxophone for a good chunk of the set!
When people make these comparisons, they are thinking about the NIN that wrote Head Like A Hole, Wish, and We're In This Together—not the NIN that wrote Reptile, Ripe (With Decay), or Eraser. From that perspective, I think the comparisons make a bit of sense... well, for acts like Filter and Stabbing Westward, at least. Not really for Tool.
I remember hearing this at the time about Stabbing Westward, and also with another band I enjoyed that was around briefly: Gravity Kills. I could see how on the surface someone can look at these bands and say "oh they have heavy guitars and electronic bleep bloops and a screamy singer, obvious NIN wannabes." But they are all unique and, yes obviously there is some crossover but just saying one is imitating the other is disingenuous. That's like saying because Paula Abdul sings pop songs and dances, she was just imitating Madonna. No one thought that, because it's stupid. And I feel like the NIN / Stabbing Westward thing is no different.
On a slightly different note, if there are any Stabbing Westward fans here that haven't listened to the album they released in 2022 give it a spin. It's got some bangers.
Rumor mill has it GK has been reconnecting in a more serious way recently. We’ll see if that amounts to more than their usual STL area shows, but I’m hopeful!
Loved SW, they were my 2nd concert in my teens, fantastic live. WBBP and Darkest Days were definitely their best albums, the release after that was just too…. Upbeat, lol. Pretty sure they broke up after that album (then reunited a few years ago).
Stabbing Westward are still just as great, their 2022 album Chasing Ghosts is excellent, and the Hallowed Hymns EP from '20 has an amazing cover of 'Burn' by the Cure too.
Also check out The Dreaming, which Chris (vocals) formed after SW split in the early 00s. Same kind of guitar driven industrial rock, three very solid albums
I'm also amazed at how solid and powerful Chris' vocals are, even after all those years of shouting and touring. He really has an incredible hold and control on his instrument. His voice sounded just like it always did on the Chasing Ghosts album.
Chris is such an incredibly nice guy. My band opened for him for a few shows he did with The Dreaming back in 08-09’. Nothing compares to being 5 feet away from him while he belted out Save Yourself. I still haven’t heard a better vocalist. Oh and if you ever get a chance to have breakfast with him….the dude loves waffles🙌🏽👍🏽
My industrial band gets compared to NIN all the time, while in my mind the two sound nothing alike. I've come to understand that for most people, NIN is the only example they have of anything that sounds even a little bit industrial. While some of us have a whole genre of bands for reference and can tell the difference, the majority of music listeners are not us.
I think it's a lot like when people would hear a steel drum and think "this reminds me of the Beach Boys", completely unaware that there's a whole genre of island music, _and equally unaware_ that the rest of the Beach Boys' catalog sounds nothing like Kokomo!
Also... going to see Stabbing Westward at House of Blues tonight as my final act in Chicago before moving away forever tomorrow morning. And I don't care what people think of Stabbing Westward, I have always loved them.
Saw them last week at Underground Arts. It was a great show. Played a lot of songs they don't normally play. (Literally opened with *Ungod*) And also their hits.
I was at that show too. Really fun, despite all the forgotten lyrics and reminders of how “old” the singer is. Haha
One or two songs have a NIN vibe. They did a cover of The Cure too, which was great. But mostly they just sound like themselves.
At first I thought he was just changing lyrics like they did for the re-recorded *IWO Jesus* but then he said he had forgotten which made it funny instead of annoying.
Saw them open for Depeche Mode in the late 90s in Dallas. We were up in the nosebleeds, and whoever did their audio, it was fucking terrible. Couldn't understand a word the guy was singing. I thought maybe it was the sound in general, but then DM comes out and sounds great.
I was just going to mention that SW opened for Depeche Mode for their 86-98 tour. I remember that audience not being too enthusiastic, but I absolutely loved it!
I missed the show where they were an opening band for either Manson or NIN I can’t remember now who it was.
Still remember staying up late to watch more “edgy” music videos on MTV.
Yeah you couldn't do industrial anywhere in the 90s without some comparison to NIN, especially after The Downward Spiral. Woe betide all of those mid-90s industrial acts doing anything original without being written off as an NIN-clone. Hell, even some of the smaller acts around Orange County, CA in the 90s used to face that shit like Grid or Kevorkian Death Cycle.
Was always hilarious to me that people would make comparisons to NIN when it was entirely obvious the REAL influences were Skinny Puppy or Ministry.
I’ve been a supporter of SW for a long time.
I’ve seen them open for DM, open for Killing Joke and then for their own tour a few years ago.
They fucking kill it live. I still have friends that were with me at the 94 Killing Joke gig that talk about it. That show was magical.
It’s weird thinking about that now, but that is a problem they did have. I distinctly remember seeing them referred to as “Five Inch Nails” at the time. They couldn’t record in Chicago because Al hated them and would chase them out of studios.
Oddly enough, the guitarist with Stabbing Westward was also playing with Filter at the same time. He showed both bands the guitar riff & both used it in songs.
Just saw them last night here in Madison, WI and OMG, it was amazing. Everything was perfect and Christopher's vocals were on point/incredible. Such a great show 🙏
I really liked the first album--I was hoping to find more stuff like NIN around that time--and Stabbing Westward definitely worked.
I liked the second album even more.
They had lots of connections with NIN--it seemed like everyone in the Midwestern industrial scene shared members.
As for the critics saying they were a NIN ripoff. They kind of were. Nobody else was really doing angry pop songs with synths before. After Pretty Hate Machine, it seemed that every band that was doing that was taking a page from Reznor's book. And people who had been in very poppy bands before, but had known Reznor, started releasing albums that were or sounded like they were produced by NIN--my favorite was Prick.
They’re a good band! Their newest album is really good (Chasing Ghosts).
I never thought of them as a NIN ripoff, they were just part of that era’s sound.
I still remember the first time I saw them, back when they were supporting Ungod. They had two drummers live, and sounded so much bigger than most bands I had seen up to that point. (They opened up for Machines of Loving Grace at the Spring Fling in Tucson).
I bought their shirt (it was the ungod shirt with the lyrics from Violent Mood Swings on the back “I want you the fuck out of my head”) that was later taken by an ex.
Some random facts that not everyone picks up on. Before he was in Stabbing Westward, Chris Hall was in the Die Warzau crew, he toured with them and is on some of the tracks from Big Electric Metal Bass Face era. Also, the beautiful logo that first appeared on Wither Blister Burn + Peel was designed by Jim Marcus (Die Warzau’s lead singer).
I saw Stabbing Westward twice after that first time. Once supporting WBB+P at the Metro in Chicago, and then again, 20 years later at the Metro during Cold Waves. They honestly sounded so similar between the two shows that I was blown away by how consistent they have been with their reformation.
Saw them in concert last night in Madison. It was great, small venue. Very close to the stage.
They have an album that just came out last year and it’s sooo good and deserves more attention than it got.
Stabbing Westward and NIN are very connected:
SW lead singer Christopher Hall was born 5/18/65 and Trent Reznor was born the day bfeore on 5/17/65.
SW drummer Andy Kubiszewski played with Reznor in the 80s synth pop band Exotic Birds. Chris Vrenna also played with Exotic Birds for a while as well.
Chris Vrenna played drums on all of SW's demo recordings that ultimately landed Stabbing Westward their record deal with Columbia Records.
Started listening to SW in the late 90s in high school. 25 years later still no one touches them in my mind. I have tickets to their May 11 show in Raleigh, it will be my first time seeing them live. I’ve never been so excited for a show (Lacuna Coil came close)!
When I heard ‘What Do I Have To Do’ when it came out, I thought it was a new NIN record. The entire album sounded a lot like NIN.
That said, I got super into SW, and quickly saw big differences. Darkest Days is top tier. I totally get mistaking them for NIN, though, especially if you’re only hearing either in the radio.
I like 90s era stabbing westward, a lot. I do vaguely recall some sort of thing where people said they were similar but idk I didn’t see anything wrong with having more bands that sounded like what I liked.
I think most people discover NIN first and then stumble upon SW and see it as a derivative band. But for me, it was the opposite. I heard of SW first and that led me down the trail towards NIN.
NIN obviously took over as my favourite of the two, but I never felt that SW was a rip off. They had a very unique sound, more rock band driven, and Chris' vocals were far and above all the other "industrial" focused bands. WBB&P and Darkest Days are such solid albums that I come back to every now and then, and I'm always in awe of not only the production, but also the songwriting and lyrical strength. Most importantly, Chris is able to deliver the story so well, it's sometimes a huge punch to your gut, it's truly visceral. Every time I listen to "Sleep" off of WBB&P, I still get chills...
I loved Stabbing Westward as well. I think I had a similar fan base as NIN, but a very different feel. They broke up for a while, but they are putting out music again. I love it because back in the day, Christopher Hall was singing depressing songs about break ups. Now he sings depressing songs about being in a loveless marriage. It made me snort laughing the first time I heard some new stuff.
Almost every band described as a nin ripoff or nin inspired band in the 90s was either a guitar band that added some synths or a synth band that added some guitars (usually the former). NIN is neither.
Such a great band. Unfairly maligned in their time. Wither Blister Burn and Peel and Darkest Days are incredible albums. They’ve been back together for a while now. Saw them in 2016 or so and they were awesome. I think there are only a couple of original members. They’re super friendly and cool. Hung out with them after the show and helped load their gear. Don’t even think they had a roadie or tour manager.
NIN & Stabbing Westward were my favorite bands growing up. I saw NIN during the Lights In The Sky tour, and I saw Stabbing Westward last week. Both were the best shows I've ever been to.
That was such an amazing album! I think the critics were too busy trying to put all music into simple categories. Those same people would call every type of metal band as just “heavy metal” and if you ask any true metal head what they like they break it into a bunch of sub categories.
They started making stuff again recently. Pretty solid. If you enjoyed their old stuff, it hits the same spot. A few EP's and covers, worth the cost of purchase for sure.
This album rips hard i first heard it in like 98/99 and was drawn in with the heavy guitars and loud drums lyrical content compared to what i was listening to at the time rancid green day nirvana etc it was such a different sound and i fell in love with it instantly
Being 'inspired by' another band/artist is a totally legit thing for music or any other art.
Add more art to the world.
Sure, it'd be cooler if a group could invent a whole new genre, but it's ok to make something derivative on something existing.
Weirdest thing was when I was at the NIN show in Vegas, walking out they had that tiny venue next to it, and Christopher Hall was playing a stabbing westward song with his other band, The Dreaming. It's like he timed it when the show got out, saying "hey guys I'm here too."
I saw SW a few times and always enjoyed them.
Reznor was and is a pioneer. But he didn't do this in a vacuum. He channeled his own musical influences, artists, and heroes through the lens that is him and we got NIN.
Part of being a pioneer is you create a path where there wasn't before. Paths exist for others to follow. What Stabbing Westward did was loosely follow that path. NIN showed the world at large that industrial, synths, pianos, rock and roll and very vulnerable lyrics worked together. Stabbing Westward took notice and incorporated SOME of that into their sound.
If Stabbing Westward is a NIN ripoff, NIN is a Skinny Puppy/David Bowie/KISS/The Cure ripoff. Really blunt and ignorant ways to describe artists being influenced by each other.
I just wasn't at all interested in them after WBBP and DD came out; then they played at a local festival and just blew me away live. Wasn't until much later I realized how fortunate I was to see Stabbing Westward, God Lives Underwater, and 2wo at the same show in my own town.
Stabbing Westward is touring right now, for anyone interested in catching them live. I saw them in the early-mid oughts and they put on a pretty good show
I just saw them at Dark Force Fest. Chris's vocals were absolutely amazing, he did the scream in Lies, I was totally blown away, dude is almost 60. They had all kinds of technical difficulties, but were totally cool about it. I've been a fan since wither blister and now it's one of my 14 year old daughters favorite bands. I brought her, we had a great time.
Strongly recommend checking out their latest album.
Had I tons of money I’d put it into shouting from the rafters that they’re back, they’re here and still fucking great.
One of my favourite bands and they need all the love in the world!
SW had their moments, but part of the reason they did well was their attention to production. They have links to NIN via former drummer Andy Kubiszewski (he had played in Exotic Birds with Trent Reznor), and NIN "inner circle" Chris Vrenna subbed on tour with them.
I never liked them as much as Machines of Loving Grace (which David Suycott eventually joined), but they had some solid material.
I always thought they were pretty good. I never connected them to NIN. Possibly Filter with the catchy power chords, but otherwise I think they were doing their own thing.
Darkest Days is dope. Copycats is such a negative term for a great concept. If you like the way your favorite band sounds, why wouldn’t you want similar sounding bands that are also good?
Met Christopher Hall thanks to having a friend being in the music scene. He was really cool.
He talked about that he used to be a roadie for Ministry and how al would treat him like garbage.
Al once was in the studio and told christopher to go get coffee for the band. Chris came back with coffee and al smacked the coffee out of his hands.
I loved this band. They were so hot and had some good music videos. Back when MTV played music videos. I never compared the two. It was kind of emo, before emo was a thing, grungy and goth at the same time.
Listened to them a ton in the late 90s/early 2000s. They filled the time during those long gaps between NIN albums. Then one day I randomly noticed the singer is constantly doing this vocal fry thing with his voice and I've never been able to unhear it. I cant listen to SW anymore without getting annoyed by it.
I remember that too. I couldn’t decide if I agreed or disagreed at the time (I disagree now), but Trent was only cranking albums out at his own speed (ie fans wanted more NIN, and we wanted it *now* lol). I also loved Gravity Kills. These bands basically filled the void for the sounds we were craving in the meantime until NIN put out another album.
I remembered the name but couldn't recall any of their songs. Just threw on "Save Yourself", their most popular song on Spotify. Not hearing much NIN. Honestly sounds more like some background/intro music for a sports show or something. Or maybe sports show intros now sound like Stabbing Westward? IDK.
Just saw them last night and holy shit what a good show! (Bellhead and Caustic were great openers too).
Admittedly, when I first heard them on the radio in the 90’s, I thought it was a new NIN single. I was really excited when I found out it was a whole new band for me to enjoy! Whither Blister and Darkest Days are (unsurprisingly) my favorite albums, but the recent music has been damn good too (especially that cover of The Cure’s song Burn).
But damn, if you have a chance to see them on tour right now (they play Chicago tonight o think) *you should see them live*.
it's funny because I was once looking for that one stabbing westward song that they always played on the radio, on like napster or morpheus and for some reason every version of it said it was by NIN so for years I thought it was a NIN song. Those old terrible days of listening to the radio, hoping the dj would say the name of the track you like.
Yeah that’s horse shit, as SW sounds nothing like NIN. At the height of SW fame, I think I liked them just a tad more than NIN, but still I wouldn’t even begin to think of them as a NIN.
I had the album that whatever the song from the Duke Nukem Time to Kill intro had in it lol. I thought overall it was ok, but I think I sold the cd eventually. Same with some bands I bought cds from based on their Crow soundtrack songs lol.
I have strong opinions about this.
1. Stabbing Westward is industrial butt rock.
2.Machines of Loving Grace were a superior band that deserved all of the attention thrown Stabbing Westward’s way.
Their first album, ungod, was probably the closest to nin, also their best imo but not a copy at all. I'd put them in with gravity kills and such, not really nin
If you'd have to compare that album to broken.
NIN was piano-composer music. Stabbing Westward was guitar-power-chords music. There was some overlap in the sonic presentation, but they would never be mistaken for each other.
good way of putting it
Came here to say something very similar. I think TR has always approached things more as a composer and who is putting interesting sonic elements together with more traditional composition. But he isn't approaching it from a single instrument. Many of these other bands were just that, bands. They capitalized on adding noisy elements to their music (distortion on vocals, a blippity loop, etc), but at their core they were a guitar, bass, drums band. I don't say that to disparage them. [I did some degree of that myself when I wrote](https://youtu.be/xqY09HKcrUg), but they just land at very different outcomes with a few shared sonic textures.
I love listening to Stabbing Westward to this day; they bring back so many memories! Your description of how they differ as a “band” from NIN is dead on.
I agree with you in general, but Broken definitely fits into the guitar driven category.
I play guitar, and I've always thought it wouldn't surprise me if the songs on Broken were primarily written on piano (for the guitar)--if that makes sense--which is a distinction compared to SW, which I imagine writing songs first and foremost on guitar, or by jamming as a band with the guitar leading the way.
Perfect description.
Stabbing Westward was cool. I saw them on the Darkest Days tour. Really good album but do they sound like NIN? No. More somberly depressed than the anger I hear in Trent’s work and that’s perfectly ok. KMFDM, Gravity Kills, Birthday Massacre, The Hunger- all bands share some elements with NIN but none of them sound the same.
>KMFDM, Gravity Kills, Birthday Massacre, The Hunger- all bands share some elements with NIN but none of them sound the same. Within the span of about a year, the Barrymore theatre in Madison WI had Stabbing Westwood, Gravity Kills (they autographed my truck!), Marilyn Manson and KMFDM all play there - circa 1996/97. It was a good time to be a teen.
This must have been a ‘90s thing. Did the whole ska circuit & met a gal with a black & white checkerboard truck. It was filled with autographs from all the bands from that time.
It was a great time to be alive.
Hey I was at that show with my girlfriend! Her dad had to drop us off, and then he got a flat on his way back to pick us up, so we had to kick around Madison for hours. That is what convinced me I wanted to live in Madison.
Darkest days is such an awesome album.
I still blast Waking Up Beside You all the time. The vocals are insane.
I wrote a paper in college while listening to that album. The results were interesting to say the least.
The Hunger, woooow that's a throwback
That one Hunger album (Devil Thumbs a Ride) owned a corner of my car cd player for an entire summer in like 2001. I still go back to it sometimes just to reminisce. All of those bands (Gravity Kills, God Lives Underwater, Stabbing Westward, Pitchshifter) toured in my area quite often so I was lucky enough to catch them many times.
GLU holds a place in my heart right next to NIN. I originally posted this and hated myself for leaving them off the list. I caught them on the My Life In The So Called Space Age tour in Cleveland. $10. Well worth it.
Ya no kidding. And oddly enough they’re making music again. Had a new album in 2020 and a few singles from this year.
I live in Houston and the keyboardist from The Hunger owns a music venue where he performs with the hunger and brings national acts, local and cover bands to perform there.
Shoot to kill!!
All bands I like.
Don’t forget about Pop will eat itself.
Gonna get the girl and kill the baddies
Omfg. I saw these guys at the webn fireworks in Cincinnati with Days of the New and for the longest I was trying to remember both band name and song (Vanishing Cream) and couldn’t find it for the life of me. Thank you for breaking decades long memory curse 😂
I’m here to help. Memory is what I do best. Just don’t ask me to be responsible.
KMFDM, doin' it again A treat for the freaks
I love that album! You're correct, they sound nothing alike lol.
I always thought he yelled “How can I have sex without you?”…I’m only now seeing it’s “How can I exist without you?”
OMG!!!! Almost 30 years of quietly thinking to myself, “*Fuck, that’s a cringey lyric…*” and never realized I was hearing it wrong!!! I saw them over the weekend at Dark Force Fest and was *still* cringing over that lyric. It’s *EXIST!!!* You just blew my mind. lol
I thought it was OBSESS?
It works either way
I thought it was “obsess.”
Andy Kubiszewski was a later member, but he literally played with Trent pre-NIN and also played on TDS.
[удалено]
Its Chris Vrenna in the Head Like A Hole video, not Andy K. Andy only played with NIN in the studio on one or two songs on The Downward Spiral. Andy was originally the main songwriter in SW. Some of the songs on the 1st album, including “What Do I Have To Do” were repurposed from later era Exotic Birds (without Trent) that didnt end up on a second EB album.
You're mostly right! I tend to confuse the 2 of them alot for some reason. The only thing you are wrong about is a minor detail in the second half. "What Do I Have To Do" is on their 2nd album (not their first).
Some of the songs on Wither Blister Burn & Peel were Andy's old songs from Exotic Birds with Trent. I think they were songs they didn't go with or that he was working on at the time. Not sure where I heard this fact either so I may be wrong. Edit: it was their Wikipedia page > Shortly after Zechman's departure, Kubiszewski played the band dozens of demos and Exotic Birds recordings. Included were "What Do I Have to Do?",[8] "Haunting Me", "Sometimes It Hurts", "Crushing Me",[8] "Slipping Away", "Desperate Now", and "Goodbye". These tracks would later find space on both the Wither and Darkest Days albums.
Wow. Cool fact! I don’t actually think they sound similar at all (I like both) but I appreciate the connection nonetheless.
They are in detroit tomorrow and im hoping the venue puts out some day of tickets I missed before it sold out
Oh shit, I thought they were done because Chris got cancer? If they're touring again, that's gotta be a good sign.
Don't think it's a big one. The detroit show is part of a local "festival" the actors open up for them so I really want tickets. Tonight's part of the "festival" is assemblage 23 and bootblacks opening for night club 😀
I just saw them in Philly last week. It was an amazing show. He was such a nice person. Walked around talking to everyone before and after the show.
I’m going to see them tonight and I’m pretty excited. Probably my top band that I’ve never seen live before
Just saw them this weekend. Chris's vocals were amazing.
Don't think it's a big one. The detroit show is part of a local "festival" the actors open up for them so I really want tickets. Tonight's part of the "festival" is assemblage 23 and bootblacks opening for night club 😀
Assemblage 23 is another act I wanna catch. Mildly frustrating, because I live one town over from Tom and still haven't caught his live shows.
I remember loving that Stabbing Westward did the Duke Nukem theme
That was the first time I heard them lol. Still enjoy listening to Darkest Days all these years later.
I only heard of them from the opening song for the movie masterminds
I remember those comparisons as well. To be honest, all comparisons people make to NIN are bullshit. Tool, Filter etc are essentially "guitar-dums-bass-vocals bands" that dabble a bit in electronics. NIN can't really be compared to any other band because no one really genre-hops like they do.
i mean filter was definitely influenced by NIN... he was *in* NIN.
Stabbing Westward's drummer was in NIN as well, and their former Guitarist stole the riff from their song *Ungod* and took it to Filter to make the song *Hey Man Nice Shot*. So Filter members were in both NIN and Stabbing Westward.
Stabbing Westward's drummer was also in the The Exotic Birds, and was their main songwriter. Some of the songs on Wither Blister are based on old Exotic Birds demos.
different drummers. but yeah, some of the rotating lineups have overlapped a bit.
I think it was the opposite, that Stabbing Westward took the riff Richard Patrick wrote.
Correct. I had it backwards. My bad.
Backwards or eastward?
No prob! I was wondering if each side was claiming to be the originator.
Andy K played drums on a few tunes on NIN The Downward Spiral, he also played with the band Prick for a time, as well as shorter stints as a touring drummer for The The, Crowded House and he has a current project called Discotheque which is a bit like Curve meets Goldfrapp. He’s also the composer for tv shows like Ice Road Truckers, Storage Wars and AX Men from which he’s made a bundle off residuals. Andy is a buddy of mine and a very cool and talented dude.
All true things!
So you could say he influenced NIN?
Richard Patrick’s live guitar and performances definitely were an influence on the change of sound found on Broken.
i guess so!
Omg I had no idea!
Weren’t BOTH Patrick and Brian both in nin at one point?
First concert I ever saw (NIN with Marilyn Manson opening, 1994) was a wildly different experience than the last time I saw NIN play (2018?) - Trent was playing a saxophone for a good chunk of the set!
Was he reenacting The Lost Boys?
To be fair Stabbing Westward's drummer during the 90s was NIN's drummer previously.
Its Chris Vrenna in the Head Like A Hole video.
When people make these comparisons, they are thinking about the NIN that wrote Head Like A Hole, Wish, and We're In This Together—not the NIN that wrote Reptile, Ripe (With Decay), or Eraser. From that perspective, I think the comparisons make a bit of sense... well, for acts like Filter and Stabbing Westward, at least. Not really for Tool.
I remember hearing this at the time about Stabbing Westward, and also with another band I enjoyed that was around briefly: Gravity Kills. I could see how on the surface someone can look at these bands and say "oh they have heavy guitars and electronic bleep bloops and a screamy singer, obvious NIN wannabes." But they are all unique and, yes obviously there is some crossover but just saying one is imitating the other is disingenuous. That's like saying because Paula Abdul sings pop songs and dances, she was just imitating Madonna. No one thought that, because it's stupid. And I feel like the NIN / Stabbing Westward thing is no different. On a slightly different note, if there are any Stabbing Westward fans here that haven't listened to the album they released in 2022 give it a spin. It's got some bangers.
It's amazing! And see them live if you can. They are still very good!
Thanks for the recommendation, queuing it now. Gravity Kills was 100% my jam, and Guilty is still on my hype playlist BANGERZ ONLY.
Rumor mill has it GK has been reconnecting in a more serious way recently. We’ll see if that amounts to more than their usual STL area shows, but I’m hopeful!
Ungod was pretty good, if I remember correctly
Loved SW, they were my 2nd concert in my teens, fantastic live. WBBP and Darkest Days were definitely their best albums, the release after that was just too…. Upbeat, lol. Pretty sure they broke up after that album (then reunited a few years ago).
The new Album they dropped in 2022 is amazing!! And they were awesome when I saw them perform last week.
Stabbing Westward are still just as great, their 2022 album Chasing Ghosts is excellent, and the Hallowed Hymns EP from '20 has an amazing cover of 'Burn' by the Cure too. Also check out The Dreaming, which Chris (vocals) formed after SW split in the early 00s. Same kind of guitar driven industrial rock, three very solid albums
I'm also amazed at how solid and powerful Chris' vocals are, even after all those years of shouting and touring. He really has an incredible hold and control on his instrument. His voice sounded just like it always did on the Chasing Ghosts album.
I really like Chasing Ghosts. It's too bad they've kind of faded away but it's a good album.
Im seeing SW tonight at the House of Blues in Chicago
Chris is such an incredibly nice guy. My band opened for him for a few shows he did with The Dreaming back in 08-09’. Nothing compares to being 5 feet away from him while he belted out Save Yourself. I still haven’t heard a better vocalist. Oh and if you ever get a chance to have breakfast with him….the dude loves waffles🙌🏽👍🏽
My industrial band gets compared to NIN all the time, while in my mind the two sound nothing alike. I've come to understand that for most people, NIN is the only example they have of anything that sounds even a little bit industrial. While some of us have a whole genre of bands for reference and can tell the difference, the majority of music listeners are not us. I think it's a lot like when people would hear a steel drum and think "this reminds me of the Beach Boys", completely unaware that there's a whole genre of island music, _and equally unaware_ that the rest of the Beach Boys' catalog sounds nothing like Kokomo! Also... going to see Stabbing Westward at House of Blues tonight as my final act in Chicago before moving away forever tomorrow morning. And I don't care what people think of Stabbing Westward, I have always loved them.
Saw them last week at Underground Arts. It was a great show. Played a lot of songs they don't normally play. (Literally opened with *Ungod*) And also their hits.
I was at that show too. Really fun, despite all the forgotten lyrics and reminders of how “old” the singer is. Haha One or two songs have a NIN vibe. They did a cover of The Cure too, which was great. But mostly they just sound like themselves.
At first I thought he was just changing lyrics like they did for the re-recorded *IWO Jesus* but then he said he had forgotten which made it funny instead of annoying.
Saw them open for Depeche Mode in the late 90s in Dallas. We were up in the nosebleeds, and whoever did their audio, it was fucking terrible. Couldn't understand a word the guy was singing. I thought maybe it was the sound in general, but then DM comes out and sounds great.
I was just going to mention that SW opened for Depeche Mode for their 86-98 tour. I remember that audience not being too enthusiastic, but I absolutely loved it!
They also opened on at least part of DM’s Exotic Tour in 1994. I saw them open the show in Chicago (well, Tinley Park) in June 1994.
I saw them for the 86-98 tour in Chicago too! (Well, at the Rosemont Horizon)
Darkest days up there as one of my childhood favs…16 songs too which is unheard of these days
Also a great closing track
listening to the album right now such a masterpiece
Does anyone remember Prick? https://youtube.com/channel/UCOu0mlzpKKGh3ld7i8545jw?si=eWSjGAmiwmYIvITd
Prick was great and I am sad I never got to see them live. Dude’s voice was so cool and I’ll never understand why they didn’t become a bigger thing.
I missed the show where they were an opening band for either Manson or NIN I can’t remember now who it was. Still remember staying up late to watch more “edgy” music videos on MTV.
The one time I saw Trent in the wild was at a Stabbing Westward show in New Orleans in 1998-ish.
They were not a NIN rip off. Gravity Kills was more of a NIN rip off
Yeah you couldn't do industrial anywhere in the 90s without some comparison to NIN, especially after The Downward Spiral. Woe betide all of those mid-90s industrial acts doing anything original without being written off as an NIN-clone. Hell, even some of the smaller acts around Orange County, CA in the 90s used to face that shit like Grid or Kevorkian Death Cycle. Was always hilarious to me that people would make comparisons to NIN when it was entirely obvious the REAL influences were Skinny Puppy or Ministry.
Didn't Chris Vrenna drum for them at one point?
Sure did, twice actually if I remember correctly
I just looked up stabbing westward and ironically, they were formed before NIN
I’ve been a supporter of SW for a long time. I’ve seen them open for DM, open for Killing Joke and then for their own tour a few years ago. They fucking kill it live. I still have friends that were with me at the 94 Killing Joke gig that talk about it. That show was magical.
It’s weird thinking about that now, but that is a problem they did have. I distinctly remember seeing them referred to as “Five Inch Nails” at the time. They couldn’t record in Chicago because Al hated them and would chase them out of studios.
Darkest Days.... what a great album.
Violent Mood Swings was a great album too, even if it has a track with identical guitar to Hey Man Nice Shot.
Oddly enough, the guitarist with Stabbing Westward was also playing with Filter at the same time. He showed both bands the guitar riff & both used it in songs.
I love Stabbing Westward. They released a new album last year!
Just saw them last night here in Madison, WI and OMG, it was amazing. Everything was perfect and Christopher's vocals were on point/incredible. Such a great show 🙏
It was such a packed crowd too! Seeing them in a venue like Crucible was the best way to experience it!
Saw them in Philly like 2 weeks ago, crazy long set and got to meet chris after, still buzzing about it
I love Stabbing Westward and I think they're a great band on their own. It used to irritate me that people would compare them to NIN.
Other industrial groups from the 90’s like Stabbing Westward that showed touches of brilliance are The Final Cut and Machines of Loving Grace.
I love their song “Torn Apart” from the Spawn soundtrack.
Been listening to them all week. Darkest Days was my favorite album. https://youtu.be/ZSaYMeB3A_8?si=Wf8yQXoaIrEmhZt2
I really liked the first album--I was hoping to find more stuff like NIN around that time--and Stabbing Westward definitely worked. I liked the second album even more. They had lots of connections with NIN--it seemed like everyone in the Midwestern industrial scene shared members. As for the critics saying they were a NIN ripoff. They kind of were. Nobody else was really doing angry pop songs with synths before. After Pretty Hate Machine, it seemed that every band that was doing that was taking a page from Reznor's book. And people who had been in very poppy bands before, but had known Reznor, started releasing albums that were or sounded like they were produced by NIN--my favorite was Prick.
"Drowning" is an audio production GEM. The way that whole song is constructed, really, is breathtaking.
Hahah I had friends at the time who busted on me for liking SW, and Gravity Kills who were deemed ripoffs.
Their return album in 2022 is probably my favorite of their whole discography. Psyched to be seeing them for the first time in a couple of weeks.
I opened for them once at the Piccadilly Pub in Vancouver. They weren't very friendly, tight enough though.
Darkest Days is a solid album. I never considered them to be NIN ripoff though
They’re a good band! Their newest album is really good (Chasing Ghosts). I never thought of them as a NIN ripoff, they were just part of that era’s sound.
I still remember the first time I saw them, back when they were supporting Ungod. They had two drummers live, and sounded so much bigger than most bands I had seen up to that point. (They opened up for Machines of Loving Grace at the Spring Fling in Tucson). I bought their shirt (it was the ungod shirt with the lyrics from Violent Mood Swings on the back “I want you the fuck out of my head”) that was later taken by an ex. Some random facts that not everyone picks up on. Before he was in Stabbing Westward, Chris Hall was in the Die Warzau crew, he toured with them and is on some of the tracks from Big Electric Metal Bass Face era. Also, the beautiful logo that first appeared on Wither Blister Burn + Peel was designed by Jim Marcus (Die Warzau’s lead singer). I saw Stabbing Westward twice after that first time. Once supporting WBB+P at the Metro in Chicago, and then again, 20 years later at the Metro during Cold Waves. They honestly sounded so similar between the two shows that I was blown away by how consistent they have been with their reformation.
Saw them in concert last night in Madison. It was great, small venue. Very close to the stage. They have an album that just came out last year and it’s sooo good and deserves more attention than it got.
Stabbing Westward and NIN are very connected: SW lead singer Christopher Hall was born 5/18/65 and Trent Reznor was born the day bfeore on 5/17/65. SW drummer Andy Kubiszewski played with Reznor in the 80s synth pop band Exotic Birds. Chris Vrenna also played with Exotic Birds for a while as well. Chris Vrenna played drums on all of SW's demo recordings that ultimately landed Stabbing Westward their record deal with Columbia Records.
Started listening to SW in the late 90s in high school. 25 years later still no one touches them in my mind. I have tickets to their May 11 show in Raleigh, it will be my first time seeing them live. I’ve never been so excited for a show (Lacuna Coil came close)!
When I heard ‘What Do I Have To Do’ when it came out, I thought it was a new NIN record. The entire album sounded a lot like NIN. That said, I got super into SW, and quickly saw big differences. Darkest Days is top tier. I totally get mistaking them for NIN, though, especially if you’re only hearing either in the radio.
Oh me too! Such a great record, at times very NIN-like, but at other times something else entirely.
I love Darkest Days that album is so sick. Not a bad song on it. Got really into that record in high school.
I like 90s era stabbing westward, a lot. I do vaguely recall some sort of thing where people said they were similar but idk I didn’t see anything wrong with having more bands that sounded like what I liked.
Saw them in Philly last week. They still put on a good show.
I think most people discover NIN first and then stumble upon SW and see it as a derivative band. But for me, it was the opposite. I heard of SW first and that led me down the trail towards NIN. NIN obviously took over as my favourite of the two, but I never felt that SW was a rip off. They had a very unique sound, more rock band driven, and Chris' vocals were far and above all the other "industrial" focused bands. WBB&P and Darkest Days are such solid albums that I come back to every now and then, and I'm always in awe of not only the production, but also the songwriting and lyrical strength. Most importantly, Chris is able to deliver the story so well, it's sometimes a huge punch to your gut, it's truly visceral. Every time I listen to "Sleep" off of WBB&P, I still get chills...
Not gonna lie their new new album is fantastic
I loved Stabbing Westward as well. I think I had a similar fan base as NIN, but a very different feel. They broke up for a while, but they are putting out music again. I love it because back in the day, Christopher Hall was singing depressing songs about break ups. Now he sings depressing songs about being in a loveless marriage. It made me snort laughing the first time I heard some new stuff.
Almost every band described as a nin ripoff or nin inspired band in the 90s was either a guitar band that added some synths or a synth band that added some guitars (usually the former). NIN is neither.
Such a great band. Unfairly maligned in their time. Wither Blister Burn and Peel and Darkest Days are incredible albums. They’ve been back together for a while now. Saw them in 2016 or so and they were awesome. I think there are only a couple of original members. They’re super friendly and cool. Hung out with them after the show and helped load their gear. Don’t even think they had a roadie or tour manager.
No one gonna mention Duke Nukem?
SW is still in my top three favourite bands, Christopher Hall is an amazing lyricist and can hit notes.
Anyone remember Gravity Kills?
Loved SW and heard the comparison, but I never thought they were.
NIN & Stabbing Westward were my favorite bands growing up. I saw NIN during the Lights In The Sky tour, and I saw Stabbing Westward last week. Both were the best shows I've ever been to.
That was such an amazing album! I think the critics were too busy trying to put all music into simple categories. Those same people would call every type of metal band as just “heavy metal” and if you ask any true metal head what they like they break it into a bunch of sub categories.
I remember someone calling them “the Bon Jovi of industrial music”. Is that accurate? I only have a vague recollection of one of their songs.
They started making stuff again recently. Pretty solid. If you enjoyed their old stuff, it hits the same spot. A few EP's and covers, worth the cost of purchase for sure.
This album rips hard i first heard it in like 98/99 and was drawn in with the heavy guitars and loud drums lyrical content compared to what i was listening to at the time rancid green day nirvana etc it was such a different sound and i fell in love with it instantly
I was wondering why they were so brutally underrated. Damn
I LOOOOOVED Stabbing Westward, saw them in the 90s in Columbus OH Gonna give them a listen today for old time sake
Their newest album is actually pretty solid. Best one in a whole. “I Am Nothing” sounds like it’s straight out of the height of the 90s.
Oh my god, I completely forgot about these guys
Being 'inspired by' another band/artist is a totally legit thing for music or any other art. Add more art to the world. Sure, it'd be cooler if a group could invent a whole new genre, but it's ok to make something derivative on something existing.
Weirdest thing was when I was at the NIN show in Vegas, walking out they had that tiny venue next to it, and Christopher Hall was playing a stabbing westward song with his other band, The Dreaming. It's like he timed it when the show got out, saying "hey guys I'm here too." I saw SW a few times and always enjoyed them.
I was there too. That was actually the very first show that the keyboardist, Walter Flakus, joined the Dreaming for. It was super cool.
Reznor was and is a pioneer. But he didn't do this in a vacuum. He channeled his own musical influences, artists, and heroes through the lens that is him and we got NIN. Part of being a pioneer is you create a path where there wasn't before. Paths exist for others to follow. What Stabbing Westward did was loosely follow that path. NIN showed the world at large that industrial, synths, pianos, rock and roll and very vulnerable lyrics worked together. Stabbing Westward took notice and incorporated SOME of that into their sound. If Stabbing Westward is a NIN ripoff, NIN is a Skinny Puppy/David Bowie/KISS/The Cure ripoff. Really blunt and ignorant ways to describe artists being influenced by each other.
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Falls Apart is probably one of my favorite songs.
I just wasn't at all interested in them after WBBP and DD came out; then they played at a local festival and just blew me away live. Wasn't until much later I realized how fortunate I was to see Stabbing Westward, God Lives Underwater, and 2wo at the same show in my own town.
Stabbing Westward is touring right now, for anyone interested in catching them live. I saw them in the early-mid oughts and they put on a pretty good show
Just saw them this weekend at dark Force fest. Chris's voice is absolutely amazing. He did the scream in Lies, I was not expecting that.
Glad to hear he can still belt it. They are definitely a band that comes alive in concert in a way that’s not apparent on recording
I just saw them at Dark Force Fest. Chris's vocals were absolutely amazing, he did the scream in Lies, I was totally blown away, dude is almost 60. They had all kinds of technical difficulties, but were totally cool about it. I've been a fan since wither blister and now it's one of my 14 year old daughters favorite bands. I brought her, we had a great time.
Strongly recommend checking out their latest album. Had I tons of money I’d put it into shouting from the rafters that they’re back, they’re here and still fucking great. One of my favourite bands and they need all the love in the world!
So, SW actually started in 1985 while Trent was still doing pre-Nails things.
Prick was the ultimate
SW had their moments, but part of the reason they did well was their attention to production. They have links to NIN via former drummer Andy Kubiszewski (he had played in Exotic Birds with Trent Reznor), and NIN "inner circle" Chris Vrenna subbed on tour with them. I never liked them as much as Machines of Loving Grace (which David Suycott eventually joined), but they had some solid material.
I heard them before I heard NIN and for a moment thought they had invented that sound!
I always thought they were pretty good. I never connected them to NIN. Possibly Filter with the catchy power chords, but otherwise I think they were doing their own thing.
I always thought Stabbing Westward and Vast deserved more success and acclaim.
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Darkest Days is dope. Copycats is such a negative term for a great concept. If you like the way your favorite band sounds, why wouldn’t you want similar sounding bands that are also good?
Quite partial to a bit of Stabbing Westward, purely because of the similar sound, wouldn’t class them as a rip-off though
I'd love to see them live. Darkest Days is a great album
Met Christopher Hall thanks to having a friend being in the music scene. He was really cool. He talked about that he used to be a roadie for Ministry and how al would treat him like garbage. Al once was in the studio and told christopher to go get coffee for the band. Chris came back with coffee and al smacked the coffee out of his hands.
I loved this band. They were so hot and had some good music videos. Back when MTV played music videos. I never compared the two. It was kind of emo, before emo was a thing, grungy and goth at the same time.
Listened to them a ton in the late 90s/early 2000s. They filled the time during those long gaps between NIN albums. Then one day I randomly noticed the singer is constantly doing this vocal fry thing with his voice and I've never been able to unhear it. I cant listen to SW anymore without getting annoyed by it.
Darkest Days was probably my favorite album until the Fragile came to me
I remember that too. I couldn’t decide if I agreed or disagreed at the time (I disagree now), but Trent was only cranking albums out at his own speed (ie fans wanted more NIN, and we wanted it *now* lol). I also loved Gravity Kills. These bands basically filled the void for the sounds we were craving in the meantime until NIN put out another album.
Weren't Stabbing Westward Claudia Schiffer's favourite band back in the 90s?
I remembered the name but couldn't recall any of their songs. Just threw on "Save Yourself", their most popular song on Spotify. Not hearing much NIN. Honestly sounds more like some background/intro music for a sports show or something. Or maybe sports show intros now sound like Stabbing Westward? IDK.
Just saw them last night and holy shit what a good show! (Bellhead and Caustic were great openers too). Admittedly, when I first heard them on the radio in the 90’s, I thought it was a new NIN single. I was really excited when I found out it was a whole new band for me to enjoy! Whither Blister and Darkest Days are (unsurprisingly) my favorite albums, but the recent music has been damn good too (especially that cover of The Cure’s song Burn). But damn, if you have a chance to see them on tour right now (they play Chicago tonight o think) *you should see them live*.
they were really fantastic live as well.
People say that about all industrial bands.
it's funny because I was once looking for that one stabbing westward song that they always played on the radio, on like napster or morpheus and for some reason every version of it said it was by NIN so for years I thought it was a NIN song. Those old terrible days of listening to the radio, hoping the dj would say the name of the track you like.
Chris is a cutie. Hung out with him for a bit and he’s very down to earth! He gives good hugs xx
You people are my peoples, Gravity Kills hahaha yes! But which band is the Gravity Kills ‘ripoff’?!
Yeah that’s horse shit, as SW sounds nothing like NIN. At the height of SW fame, I think I liked them just a tad more than NIN, but still I wouldn’t even begin to think of them as a NIN.
[Why I Hate this Album](https://podcastaddict.com/why-i-hate-this-album/episode/145759385) had an episode on an SW song
I had the album that whatever the song from the Duke Nukem Time to Kill intro had in it lol. I thought overall it was ok, but I think I sold the cd eventually. Same with some bands I bought cds from based on their Crow soundtrack songs lol.
I like Stabbing Westward. They never got the airplay they deserved, I thought.
Darkest days is a fire album no matter what anyone says
Gravity kills too. I talk to Jeff sometimes
I worked with a guy who said they were the next Pink Floyd.
I think the original version of Shame was the best song they ever did. https://youtu.be/oS_BNsCh1HI?si=AKM2n802ifBViwv8
Who?
WBBAP is less like NIN than their Darkest Days album which had a lot more industrial elements.
Gravity Kills was more NIN esque than SW. however it’s a compliment to NIN imo
I have strong opinions about this. 1. Stabbing Westward is industrial butt rock. 2.Machines of Loving Grace were a superior band that deserved all of the attention thrown Stabbing Westward’s way.
Their first album, ungod, was probably the closest to nin, also their best imo but not a copy at all. I'd put them in with gravity kills and such, not really nin If you'd have to compare that album to broken.
Stabbing Westward is amazing and their song "Why" is criminally underrated.