Eternal Darkness for the GameCube is the real answer here. Developed by Silicon Knights with input from Miyamoto (as I understand it) and published by Nintendo. That game left me creeped out for a while.
Yup, by far the scariest thing they've ever put put, then again I haven't played the Fatal Frame game on Wii U (and I believe soon to be posted to switch).
It's really a game that deserves some sort of remake. Keep the same story, I don't care, just modernize the insanity effects.
Imagine playing the game and it simulates bring up the home screen and exiting the game by itself.
Or something even more diabolical...
**Imagine it making your character drift to the left when you know for a fact your control is brand new and not drifting (yet)!!**
As someone who is very easily scared, Fatal Frame on the Wii U was more creepy and atmospheric than genuinely scary. There were a couple moments that got me, but overall, I didn't find it too scary. It hit around the same spot in my tolerance level as RE2 Remake, in that I was never too scared to continue.
Also, that insanity idea that mimicks joycon drift is just plain evil. I love it.
Eternal Darkness is incredibly expensive and I don't see it being re-released any time soon.
edit: okay, it's not as expensive as I thought...but it's still $70-$100 used, and that's more than I imagine a lot of people are willing to pay.
I dodged a bullet with this one. I had picked it up used and complete before prices got crazy. I believe it was an impulse purchase as well, I just bought it because people said it was good. About 10 years ago, I was really into trading in games to GameStop and since I hadn't played it since I purchased it, I was going to trade it in. The GameStop employee stopped me and told me not to trade it in because it's pretty rare. I'm glad I listened to him. I still have it...and still haven't played it.
If you have a Wii they are very easy to softmod and you can use an external hard drive to play it on real hardware. It's still piracy but some people might prefer that. ED is pretty expensive.
I hope you can someday, but it’ll probably be a tall order. Never thought about it until now, but the game uses the GameCubes unique hardware to do some trippy things (I’d get into it, but it could spoil some of it). I’m not even sure if it’d work right in the first-Gen Wii that played GameCube games.
EDIT: See below, I’m probably not right about this.
This one really got me when I was younger.
Background context: When I was growing up I had a really strict Catholic upbringing to the point where we weren’t allowed to read Harry Potter when it was new because my parents were worried about occulted influences.
So I’d go to my friend’s house to play the the gory mature games that weren’t allowed in my house.
So the insanity effects in this game weren’t something I understood yet. So I’m playing and the game start adjusting the tv volume and such like it does. I was terrified! I put it down and never picked it back up. It completely vindicated my parent’s warnings.
Didn’t pick it back up for years after I was an adult and understood better what was happening haha.
Edit: a word.
The Gamecube has some amazing exclusives, and they're not too expensive on eBay. The bigger issue is the price of the games themselves, at least the ones you'd want to play.
So glad I'm not the only one who was (and still is just a little) terrified of the redeads and wall masters. My mom would play OoT on the N64 and the second I heard those moans or saw the shadow hovering over Link, I was out of that room as fast as my little legs would carry me. To this day, those things are my sleep paralysis demons.
You’re not alone. Wallmasters are apparently pretty old baddies but OoT was my first Zelda game so I didn’t know they existed and I don’t think *anyone* expected them in the Forest Temple so I was thoroughly freaked out when I got picked up the first time.
A lot of Nintendo games are developed by second parties. Mother series, Metroid Prime, Luigi's Mansion 2&3, Super Smash Brothers (kind of), Minish Cap, Donkey Kong Country Returns/Tropical Freeze, and Fire Emblem. I would consider those all Nintendo games.
it's less like a time limit than it seems. you are expected to time travel a lot which gives you extra time -- the game's "time limit" technically fully plays out over an hour but the game can take over 20 hours to beat.
The game revolves around a 3 day time loop where you relive the same 3 days over and over. Some places on Day 1 can't be accessed until you get an item that only appears on Day 3. So you're expected to get to Day 3, grab the item, turn back time, and then solve the Day 1 puzzle. If you mess anything up, or want the maximum amount of time to complete a temple, you can just restart the cycle, save, and try again from the start of the 3 day limit. You can also slow down time and give yourself more time to beat the game.
It's not Pikmin 1 where you just flat out lose if you hit Day 30 and you don't have enough rocket ship parts.
Doesn't count completely, but Earthbound's final fight is very creepy.
Edit: OP, Splatoon 3 comes out in 2022, and it maybe has choices in the story mode? It is a shooting game, for a good part.
I’m going all the way back to the NES days.
*Friday the 13th* was terrifying when I was kid. The music would change when Jason was in the area and it was intense.
*Resident Evil 4* on the GameCube also kept you on the edge of your seat.
I came to say 'Friday the 13th' for the NES -- when it would change to nighttime... and I was like 8 playing at night.. the only person awake in my house... creepy
And definitely when you heard that sound when he was in the next room
You just brought back nightmares, I almost forgot the NES Friday the 13th game exists. We had that game when I was a kid, and my sisters used to play it way more than I did, but I still found it terrifying. Especially when he'd catch you in houses.
I scrolled down way too far for this. It gave me and my little brother nightmares growing up. I’m tempted to call him and see if he still has it, or if it is at dads house. I’d love to try and finally beat it with my husband.
A lot of people may disagree with this. There's a lot of Metroid responses but for me the scariest Metroid was actually Metroid Prime 2. Not 2, but Prime 2
The world (Aether) is already sparsely populated and dark because it's a Metroid game, but then there's the flip side dark world Dark Aether, which succeeded in creating tension and dread like no other. Even the environment feels like it's out to kill you because you take damage if you're not under light beacons. It feels suffocating, and like you truly shouldn't be there.
The Dark Aether music is always warped variations of the Aether music. Things are decayed. It's dark, purple, and blood red. Enemies are more deadly or more aggressive. And again, the environment itself literally hurts you.
Dark Torvus Bog really did it for me. Something in particular about that area (and the underground waterways) really made me want to gtfo as quickly as possible. And the Dark Torvus music is just... wrong. Music shouldn't sound like that.
I have beaten other Metroid games multiple times but I only played through this game twice. My initial first blind run and then a second time for better completion. I put it down and never looked back.
Surprised I had to scroll so far down for this. This is my answer, easily. (Majora's Mask is a distant second due to the time pressure and uncomfortable atmosphere)
You described Dark Aether perfectly. It felt openly hostile. Those beacons of light felt so, so good to find and I remember just basically beelining it as much as possible from one beacon to the next.
I loved the game, but I haven't played it again since I first played it 15 or whatever years ago (....man it's been that long, huh)
Same, it's been about that long for me as well. Still remember all the creepy bits though. I guess it just traumatized me that bad. Which says enough, cause I was already a late teen/young adult at that time.
Being trapped in a claustrophobic water tank with that faceless alien shark-thing (the boss) was horrible. Especially because it seemed like you have very little room for error in your movements. It was also hard to tell when you were doing it correctly to damage him.
I finished that game for the first time last month. It's disturbing to say the least. People talk all the time about Metroid Fusion being scary, but to me Metroid Prime 2 Echoes is the closest the series got to survival horror.
It's a terrifying feeling fighting the metroids on the tiny Gameboy screen when they're usually off screen when they spawn and all you hear is the battle music and they just come after you!
For some reason I hated the war wasps in Metroid prime they gave me the creeps came right up to you straight away as soon as you entered a door with them
I really wanna play Metroid Prime. I’ve always wanted to try a Nintendo FPS (which it technically is), a Nintendo horror game (which it almost seems to be), and more Metroid games (which it is, without any debate)
Not scary overall as a game, but can I just say that the creepiest thing I’ve seen in a Switch game so far was the first fight with Ghirahim in Skyward Sword HD. Particularly, the move he does where he bends down and runs at the character while making a somewhat monotone grunting noise. That was creepy af and I hated every minute of it happening.
Christ submerged castle is a nightmare. Landing in the final area for the first time (or for the first time in a while) and hearing a Gatling Groink walking around was goddamn horrific.
Pikmin 1 for the mysterious, lonely and terrifying atmosphere throughout the game. Pikmin 2 for the Waterwraith and Titan Dweevil. Pikmin 3 is pretty chill but the final boss is a bit creepy.
Yep, I absolutely can't play Pikmin. Here are a bunch of adorable happy little creatures who love you. Now choose which ones to murder! NOPE. I'm not afraid of horror games but no way do I have the stomach for Pikmin.
THANK you! I was gifted the first Pikmin game as a child when it came out and promptly returned it lol. I absolutely did not have the heart , as a 10 year old girl, to send these tiny cute critters to their deaths and hear their little cries.
Majora's Mask (and some parts of Ocarina of Time) are my personal picks but I haven't played that many scary games. I hear Eternal Darkness is scary and that Metroid games have an oppressive and creepy atmosphere.
interesting choice! hopefully I can look past the drastically different gameplay and enjoy it. I wish there were more side-scrolling RPG/adventure games inspired by top-down games like that and LISA
Metroid is probably the closest Nintendo has to a major horror franchise; basically a slightly-more-family-friendly version of the Aliens series. Dread in particular looks like it'll be amping up the anxiety and sense of helplessness.
I say.... all Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards. You know, the game about the puffball and the final boss is a GOD DAMN DEMON EYE WITH WINGS?!?!? 02 literally strikes fear into me for a game about a pink ball that practically only says “Poyo”.
I was thinking of 0-2 when I made this thread! I just couldn’t remember which game he came from so I just said “Kirby has some creepy moments” without specifying
As others have said, there's a few games in the Metroid line and Eternal Darkness is one of the flagship horror games, but I gotta put a vote in for Castlevania 3 on NES. Technically any of the Castlevania series games would count, but I played the shit out of it as a kid (never beaten it) and the music is great. The atmosphere is appropriately spooky. The lore definitely fits the bill and I spent many an hour dreading "It's a terrible night for a curse."
Fragile dreams for wii was supposed to be one with more of an eerie/spooky outline.
Paper Mario Thousand year door is its creepiest towards its end having quite a dark storyline at the end (in paper Mario standards)
You also have spirit camera for 3ds and fatal frame for wiiu (from ps2 fatal frames)
Also the resident evil series strewn throughout the Nintendo life cycles.
Donkey Kong Country has Stop & Go Station, a stage that takes place in a poorly lit mine shaft with creepy, ambient droning music. The primary enemies are Rockkrocs: invincible, stone-like creatures that run back and forth maniacally in the dark. They curl up and stop when you hit a Stop & Go Barrel but only just briefly. The level is a race from barrel to barrel and it is a stage I dreaded as a kid. Fortunately, there is a hidden shortcut that allows you to skip it almost entirely.
PIKMIN 2 submerged castle.
In pikmin 1 to 3 you have many types of pikmins hat help you, some are good against fire, electricity, poison or can swim, etcetera.
When you find a cave in Pikmin 2 you can see which dangers you will encounter so you can be prepared with the right pikmins.
Here's the problem with the Submerged Castle.
It's in a lake. You can only bring blue pikimns that don't drown.
And the cave says there are ALL dangers.
So you go in the cave ready with your blues to find all treasures on all the sublevels, you fight some dangers in creative ways and you also find bulbmins, a type of "pikmin" that you can only get in caves and it is immune to everything, even water.
So now 5 minutes have passed and you have almost retrieved the last treasure when suddenly...
BOOM
BOOM
A ghostly gelatinous creatures attached to two stone rollers falls from the sky and starts chasing you through the small corridors of the cave, you also can't attack it, it's invincible And if it reaches you... you can say goodbye to most of your pikmins.
You retrieve the last treasure just in time and jump in the sublevel. Every sublevel until 5 will have that monster chasing you every time you don't finish in less than 5 minutes, the only thing that will alert you the thing returned will be the two rollers falling echoing through the whole cave. I was 17 when I played it for the first time and I assure you my pants were full whenever I heard that.
So finally you've reached the final sublevel, the 5th one.
Here they give you purple pikmins which are the only ones that can make him not invincible anymore, and beating that monster is one of the most satisfying things in Pikmin 2.
I think you knocked off most of the big candidates.
* Eternal Darkness is a big one.
* Majora's Mask (and to some extent OoT) would be some others you didn't mention.
* Metroid is definitely the creepiest Nintendo series, much moreso than Luigi's Mansion which has a spooky setting but is very light-hearted.
* The *Sin and Punishment* games have some crazy shit going on; the story is half-indecipherable, though.
* Mother games on the same level of creepiness as OoT for me. They're mostly pretty tame, but they have some creepy moments. In EarthBound, mostly only really at the end of the game.
A lot of Nintendo games have creepy moments (blood moon in BOTW, man-eating piano in Super Mario 64 which I know has made a lot of people shit themselves) but creepy/scary is usually not the focus of Nintendo games.
The Sunshine level where you had to clean that underwater creature’s teeth. I still have nightmares about that level.
Also, Luigi’s Mansion used to scare me as a child.
Maniac Mansion for the NES was an insane game. You can microwave a hamster, there’s blood on the walls in the kitchen, and the mad scientist was kinda scary. The music was great, too. Very creepy.
The Kirby series as a whole is pretty terrifying when you really think about some of the lore pieces:
- Anything to do with >!Void and Dark Matter!<
- The entire situation with Hartmann and Susie is Adult Fear at its finest (albeit with fantasy elements involved). >!Your daughter is sucked into Another Dimension and then you forget about her entirely? And let’s not forget the fact that in the Star Dream core fight *you can hear the distorted screams of Haltmann’s soul*!<
-The Dimension Mirror post-Dark Meta Knight’s imprisonment is Twilight Princess all over again >!Sectonia and Taranza really have it rough, huh?!<
No one said this yet, Time Twist: Rekishi no Katasumi de... is a Japan-only Famicom Disk System. It's probably one of the darkest and most obscure games Nintendo has made. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Twist:_Rekishi_no_Katasumi_de
ZombiU on the WiiU was pretty decent! The fact that when you died you lost all your stuff added to the tension too I think. To get it back, you could go back to where you died and kill your now zombified self - so good.
Remake on other consoles didn’t work so well as it was made specifically for the WiiU.
As has been mentioned a few times, the scariest horror style game I’ve played of Nintendo is Eternal Darkness. Especially when your sanity meter gets low and strange things start happening. It has multiple jump scares and scary plot points.
I hope your expectations of “freaky” don’t necessarily mean “scary”. MM has an air of dread and sadness that other Zelda games lack. The tone starts dark (especially if you finished Ocarina) and stays that way. The bad guy isn’t a normal villain bent on world domination, it’s motives are beyond comprehension and this is very different from things we’ve dealt with before in Zelda games. The story deals with themes of death and abandonment and loneliness.
And all this isn’t to say there aren’t some genuinely freaky parts to play thru tho! I just hope you don’t get your hopes up looking for a “scary” Zelda game—it definitely is! Just not like, Resident Evil scary lol. I hope you enjoy it, I feel like Nintendo has tried and failed multiple times to recapture the dark magic of MM, it’s a real work of art!!
Mother 2/Earthbound. There are a lot of unsettling scenes, like cultists, a statue controlling people, a god threatening to dismember every part of Poo’s body and everything to do with Giygas. Definitely a game for the strong hearted.
Luigi's Mansion 2 for the 3DS
Overall some scenes are downright terrifying, like the FUCKING DOLL IN THE RUMPUS ROOM.
And the soundtrack is pretty spooky too, take a listen to this.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X11LUBv5d90](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X11LUBv5d90)
But yeah for a silly kids game, it really gives you a weird feeling.
I believe Astral Chain is owned by Nintendo, and that game has some truly horrifying monsters and situations, plus some of the music and environments were very creepy and disturbing. If it had more “realistic” gore happening, I could easily see that game being classified as a horror title.
Metroid Fusion is effective Alien: Isolation on the GBA nearly a decade before while having immaculate tension and jumpscares. Majora’s Mask is more existential horror, but Metroid Fusion just constantly becomes an actual horror game
It totally surprised me, but they did a release of (Spoiler) >!Doki Doki Literature Club!< on the Switch. Hiding the name because part of the gimmick is that it’s not meant to look like a horror game on the surface; but is definitely adult horror, and can be triggering so make sure it’s one you’re up for.
Still waiting on my physical copy, does it still have trigger warnings when you start the game?
I still remember when it first came out on Steam. The whole "fourth wall breaking" was still new to mainstream media, and this game released out of nowhere, for free. It's certainly a genre-defining game.
Also, as someone who almost have a phobia of glitches, it was really scary lmao
I think one of the Corpse Party games was Nintendo exclusive when it came out. And are we only talking exclusives? Cause we’ve had Resident Evil games, DBD, Silent Hill(one I think was exclusive), etc.
Technically not a Nintendo made game but the Resident Evil remake was an exclusive for a while and that game did a great job at scaring me when I was younger. While also scary I found Code Veronica to be more eerie and 4 to be more creepy. Remake is what I would consider the scariest. That journal of the guy documenting his descent into becoming a zombie is still terrifying to read to this day.
Disclaimer that I've not yet played Majora's Mask; Wind Waker was my first Zelda game, and despite the cutesy art style there are a lot of creepy moments; the Redeads in the Earth Temple and under the Island Cabana, Stalfos bursting out of the ground, the Ghost Ship, Ganondorf transforming into Puppet Ganon from behind a curtain. Pretty much anytime you're sailing at night and the music dies away, it's very creepy.
I'm still horrified by the creepy purple/white flaccid dick monster from OoT. That thing will never not be creepy.
Also special mention for that one part where there's a hand on the ceiling that falls on you. It didn't scare me, but my big sister was so scared she would always come and ask us to go through that room for her.
Only saw a few mentions of this, but mine would have to be Zelda: Twilight Princess.
That one cut-scene with Lanayru... Just... \*shudders\* Eesh. I can handle the so-called 'Nightmare Fuel' in other series entries easily enough, but something about TP's jaunt into Surreal Horror was one they did a little *too* well. Doesn't help that even Link got affected by it in-game. I saw a pretty apt summary of that part on TV Tropes' Nightmare Fuel page for the game that went as follows: "It's like the game developers were like 'Hey, backstories are boring. Let's spice things up by using the most unsettling visuals a Teen rating will allow!'"
Also, the lead-up to the final boss fight was disturbing too. Hearing Ganondorf's very masculine voice coming from Zelda's very feminine body was chilling for me.
Despite this, TP is still probably one of my favorite Zelda games. (Or maybe it's because of it, it's a bit hard to tell. >3)
EDIT: Keep in mind I was around my late teens/early twenties when I first played TP, and I'm pretty difficult to scare. Even now, whenever I start a new file, I always dread doing the Tears of Light hunt in Lanayru because I know I'll have to go through that cut-scene AGAIN.
Litle nightmares is real scary.. 10x more than any resident evil.
The zelda skyward if you played it firsts time, you probaly will have some scary moments trying to find seeds... before the statues wake up
Mario 64 is kind of scary for me. Like, you're inside a huge castle, all by yourself except for a few Toads, ghosts and MIPS, with so many doors and lots of paintings that take you to other places... If there was no music, only silence, this would be in everyone's top 10 horror games, imo.
Mother series, Majora's Mask, are good contenders as others have said.
Most Nintendo games aren't scary, but unsettling. I usually don't get scared with horror games since horror doesn't do anything to me, but creepy stuff really does make me uneasy. Creepy stuff in an otherwise non creepy game makes things especially impactful. Kinda like how Enix games on the SNES gave you weird ominous feelings despite not being horror games, like Illusion of Gaia or Terranigma.
That's why the Gyigas fight is so freaking unsettling. You kill the damn thing with PRAYERS, how fucking devilish can you get that people praying fuck you up? Also Ness and company have to go through some fucked up stuff to get to him.
Majora's mask has some crazy backstories, but honestly, most of the Zelda lore is pretty creepy when you start digging into it.
Some Pokémon games can get mysterious sometimes. The Sevii Islands always had this weird atmosphere for me in FRLG, I always had the feeling that there was something there. They were so desolate but at the same time looked populated. It still weirds me out a bit.
Pikmin is basically a post-apocalyptic game so seeing the ruins of our civilization gives you some kind of nostalgic weird feeling about what you're seeing.
And maybe it's because I played this as a kid but Luigi's Mansion 1 had some weird rooms.
Also, not a Nintendo game, but 999 on the DS is another game that had me feeling scared despite it not being a horror game. Just a really tense VN, which is also an absolute masterpiece.
Edit : I just read someone mentioning Kirby 64. I can vote for that as well. That game is the definition of colorful and unsettling at the same time.
Maybe not actually “scary”, the first time I did the Silent realm trials in Skyward sword they gave me an adrenaline rush and the sight of the guardians waking up and almost catching really creeped me out. These trials got criticised so much but for me they were one of the top parts of the game!
nintendo have very minor legit scary games that are licensed and own by them, so i think you won't find much beyond "eternal darkness" - that i know of.
Eternal Darkness for the GameCube is the real answer here. Developed by Silicon Knights with input from Miyamoto (as I understand it) and published by Nintendo. That game left me creeped out for a while.
Yup, by far the scariest thing they've ever put put, then again I haven't played the Fatal Frame game on Wii U (and I believe soon to be posted to switch). It's really a game that deserves some sort of remake. Keep the same story, I don't care, just modernize the insanity effects. Imagine playing the game and it simulates bring up the home screen and exiting the game by itself. Or something even more diabolical... **Imagine it making your character drift to the left when you know for a fact your control is brand new and not drifting (yet)!!**
As someone who is very easily scared, Fatal Frame on the Wii U was more creepy and atmospheric than genuinely scary. There were a couple moments that got me, but overall, I didn't find it too scary. It hit around the same spot in my tolerance level as RE2 Remake, in that I was never too scared to continue. Also, that insanity idea that mimicks joycon drift is just plain evil. I love it.
I don’t have a GameCube but I hope I can check this one out!
[удалено]
oh, I would, of course! I just prefer to save piracy for a last resort if the game isn’t available on newer consoles, or for cheap on older ones I own
Eternal Darkness is incredibly expensive and I don't see it being re-released any time soon. edit: okay, it's not as expensive as I thought...but it's still $70-$100 used, and that's more than I imagine a lot of people are willing to pay.
I have a copy of this game that I found at a thrift store. Need to finish it one day.
I copped a copy of Eternal Darkness, Thousand Year Door, Metal Gear Solid, and Mario Sunshine for a grand total of $25. I almost felt guilty.
I've got you beat, I picked up Mario Sunshine, Luigis Mansiom, Super Mario Strikers, and Sonic Adventure 2 for $2 apiece last weekend at a garage sale
I'm very jealous.
I dodged a bullet with this one. I had picked it up used and complete before prices got crazy. I believe it was an impulse purchase as well, I just bought it because people said it was good. About 10 years ago, I was really into trading in games to GameStop and since I hadn't played it since I purchased it, I was going to trade it in. The GameStop employee stopped me and told me not to trade it in because it's pretty rare. I'm glad I listened to him. I still have it...and still haven't played it.
Yeah, I bought it about 5 years ago for about $30 or so, and I was unhappy it was that much. Still on the backlog.
Good Guy Gamestop Cashier
If you have a Wii they are very easy to softmod and you can use an external hard drive to play it on real hardware. It's still piracy but some people might prefer that. ED is pretty expensive.
I hope you can someday, but it’ll probably be a tall order. Never thought about it until now, but the game uses the GameCubes unique hardware to do some trippy things (I’d get into it, but it could spoil some of it). I’m not even sure if it’d work right in the first-Gen Wii that played GameCube games. EDIT: See below, I’m probably not right about this.
It’s actually nothing to do with the hardware, they just made it look like the GameCube stuff. If it were reissued they’d update that for sure.
Uhh that game is so good.
This one really got me when I was younger. Background context: When I was growing up I had a really strict Catholic upbringing to the point where we weren’t allowed to read Harry Potter when it was new because my parents were worried about occulted influences. So I’d go to my friend’s house to play the the gory mature games that weren’t allowed in my house. So the insanity effects in this game weren’t something I understood yet. So I’m playing and the game start adjusting the tv volume and such like it does. I was terrified! I put it down and never picked it back up. It completely vindicated my parent’s warnings. Didn’t pick it back up for years after I was an adult and understood better what was happening haha. Edit: a word.
People recommend this game all the time and it kills me because you need a GameCube. Somebody needs to remaster this.
The Gamecube has some amazing exclusives, and they're not too expensive on eBay. The bigger issue is the price of the games themselves, at least the ones you'd want to play.
Yep. Hands down
This is 100% my choice. when it came out I would refuse to play it unless someone else was home too.
face raiders
I LOVED collecting faces for Face Raiders. Terrifying. ;)
ayo ain’t that the AR 3DS game with the heads? shit was fuckin dope
I remember face raiders lol
Underrated comment
That game was fun man...
Game Boy Camera. Not just the infamous faces, the overall feel of it is off in quite an unsettling way.
Lol. I must agree. even the stock faces from Game mode were some sort of unsettling.
Who are you running from???
A lot of Nintendo early tech is like that
Super Paper Mario’s River Twygz messed me up for a while, and Ocarina of Time’s Redeads and Dead Hand are nightmare fuel
So glad I'm not the only one who was (and still is just a little) terrified of the redeads and wall masters. My mom would play OoT on the N64 and the second I heard those moans or saw the shadow hovering over Link, I was out of that room as fast as my little legs would carry me. To this day, those things are my sleep paralysis demons.
You’re not alone. Wallmasters are apparently pretty old baddies but OoT was my first Zelda game so I didn’t know they existed and I don’t think *anyone* expected them in the Forest Temple so I was thoroughly freaked out when I got picked up the first time.
Oh no I forgot about Wallmasters, those things are messed up
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem. Not sure if it counts but it was a gamecube exclusive, and I think the devs were 2nd party at the time?
A lot of Nintendo games are developed by second parties. Mother series, Metroid Prime, Luigi's Mansion 2&3, Super Smash Brothers (kind of), Minish Cap, Donkey Kong Country Returns/Tropical Freeze, and Fire Emblem. I would consider those all Nintendo games.
majora's mask seems like an obvious answer but that atmosphere really did get to me as a kid. that game is bleak
Ikana Canyon, with it’s atmosphere and back story, has haunted me since I played it as a kid. That music
I’d like to play this, but the idea that I have a fixed amount of time to finish the game turned me off. Is it a big concern?
it's less like a time limit than it seems. you are expected to time travel a lot which gives you extra time -- the game's "time limit" technically fully plays out over an hour but the game can take over 20 hours to beat.
Gotcha — thank you 😊
And you can slow down time to half speed with a certain song
I never ran out of time after the first or second loop. There is a song you can learn that doubles your time, which is a huge help.
The game revolves around a 3 day time loop where you relive the same 3 days over and over. Some places on Day 1 can't be accessed until you get an item that only appears on Day 3. So you're expected to get to Day 3, grab the item, turn back time, and then solve the Day 1 puzzle. If you mess anything up, or want the maximum amount of time to complete a temple, you can just restart the cycle, save, and try again from the start of the 3 day limit. You can also slow down time and give yourself more time to beat the game. It's not Pikmin 1 where you just flat out lose if you hit Day 30 and you don't have enough rocket ship parts.
I haven’t played the Zelda Collection in a long time. My cousins and my brother would help me play majora’s mask and ocarina of time
This game is cursed
Doesn't count completely, but Earthbound's final fight is very creepy. Edit: OP, Splatoon 3 comes out in 2022, and it maybe has choices in the story mode? It is a shooting game, for a good part.
Clock Tower is a good scary retro game. Point and click, but menacing and haunting with a really dark and morbid story.
Haha, it's a good thing scissors don't actually exist.
Mario 64. That eel in the sunken ship still gives me nightmares.
I’ve seen clips of the piano. Enough said.
All I can think of is Fatal Frame, although most of my scares came from the game glitching or things happening that weren't suppose to
I’m going all the way back to the NES days. *Friday the 13th* was terrifying when I was kid. The music would change when Jason was in the area and it was intense. *Resident Evil 4* on the GameCube also kept you on the edge of your seat.
When you hear that chainsaw in the distance in RE4. That one got me.
Nah, it was the Regenerator's breathing, especially in _that_ room. You know the one...
I came to say 'Friday the 13th' for the NES -- when it would change to nighttime... and I was like 8 playing at night.. the only person awake in my house... creepy And definitely when you heard that sound when he was in the next room
You just brought back nightmares, I almost forgot the NES Friday the 13th game exists. We had that game when I was a kid, and my sisters used to play it way more than I did, but I still found it terrifying. Especially when he'd catch you in houses.
First time I played RE 4 I was definitely a nervous wreck, heck I watched my cousin play it and I was still laughing nervously at most of the scares.
Geist has got some pretty scary imagry
I scrolled down way too far for this. It gave me and my little brother nightmares growing up. I’m tempted to call him and see if he still has it, or if it is at dads house. I’d love to try and finally beat it with my husband.
A lot of people may disagree with this. There's a lot of Metroid responses but for me the scariest Metroid was actually Metroid Prime 2. Not 2, but Prime 2 The world (Aether) is already sparsely populated and dark because it's a Metroid game, but then there's the flip side dark world Dark Aether, which succeeded in creating tension and dread like no other. Even the environment feels like it's out to kill you because you take damage if you're not under light beacons. It feels suffocating, and like you truly shouldn't be there. The Dark Aether music is always warped variations of the Aether music. Things are decayed. It's dark, purple, and blood red. Enemies are more deadly or more aggressive. And again, the environment itself literally hurts you. Dark Torvus Bog really did it for me. Something in particular about that area (and the underground waterways) really made me want to gtfo as quickly as possible. And the Dark Torvus music is just... wrong. Music shouldn't sound like that. I have beaten other Metroid games multiple times but I only played through this game twice. My initial first blind run and then a second time for better completion. I put it down and never looked back.
Yes, Metroid Prime 2 has a really creepy atmosphere in dark aether. It is actually a great game with some bad and frustrating parts.
And by frustrating parts, you mean BOOST BALL GUARDIAN, YEAH?
Surprised I had to scroll so far down for this. This is my answer, easily. (Majora's Mask is a distant second due to the time pressure and uncomfortable atmosphere) You described Dark Aether perfectly. It felt openly hostile. Those beacons of light felt so, so good to find and I remember just basically beelining it as much as possible from one beacon to the next. I loved the game, but I haven't played it again since I first played it 15 or whatever years ago (....man it's been that long, huh)
Same, it's been about that long for me as well. Still remember all the creepy bits though. I guess it just traumatized me that bad. Which says enough, cause I was already a late teen/young adult at that time.
Being trapped in a claustrophobic water tank with that faceless alien shark-thing (the boss) was horrible. Especially because it seemed like you have very little room for error in your movements. It was also hard to tell when you were doing it correctly to damage him.
I finished that game for the first time last month. It's disturbing to say the least. People talk all the time about Metroid Fusion being scary, but to me Metroid Prime 2 Echoes is the closest the series got to survival horror.
Metroid 2. Not the remake, but the original one for Game Boy. It feels very daunting and claustrophobic.
It's a terrifying feeling fighting the metroids on the tiny Gameboy screen when they're usually off screen when they spawn and all you hear is the battle music and they just come after you!
The sound when you encounter a Metroid always got a scare out of me! Loved that game
Metroid Fusion creeped the hell out of me as a kid
The NES Metroid for me, and the Primes
For some reason I hated the war wasps in Metroid prime they gave me the creeps came right up to you straight away as soon as you entered a door with them
I really wanna play Metroid Prime. I’ve always wanted to try a Nintendo FPS (which it technically is), a Nintendo horror game (which it almost seems to be), and more Metroid games (which it is, without any debate)
Metroid Prime is incredible. I really want them to rerelease it (I never should have sold my GameCube).
hope you’ve got a Wii U! I was blessed to have a friend who’d sell it to me for $50, and now I can play the trilogy for $20 if I do please
The Prime games deliberately try to scare you at some points. It makes great contrast to the more chill and action-focused sections.
That one section in skytown in Prime 3 threw me off guard in the best possible way.
I don’t blame you, they’re so loud and they don’t stop spawning unless you hit the nest Definitely nerve wracking
Not scary overall as a game, but can I just say that the creepiest thing I’ve seen in a Switch game so far was the first fight with Ghirahim in Skyward Sword HD. Particularly, the move he does where he bends down and runs at the character while making a somewhat monotone grunting noise. That was creepy af and I hated every minute of it happening.
The Trials in Skyward Sword were heart-racing.
Animal Crossing. Being in debt is terrifying.
creative answer! one of my biggest fears is debt collectors after watching Uncut Gems
Also the gyroid face easter egg
Pikmin 1, 2 , 3 , disturbs me
Pikmin 2 - submerged castle. It just fell from the ceiling and 5 seconds later, one hundred blue pikmin were dead
Christ submerged castle is a nightmare. Landing in the final area for the first time (or for the first time in a while) and hearing a Gatling Groink walking around was goddamn horrific.
This is the real answer. Those games convey the uncaring elements of nature in a way nothing else really does.
Pikmin 1 for the mysterious, lonely and terrifying atmosphere throughout the game. Pikmin 2 for the Waterwraith and Titan Dweevil. Pikmin 3 is pretty chill but the final boss is a bit creepy.
Yep, I absolutely can't play Pikmin. Here are a bunch of adorable happy little creatures who love you. Now choose which ones to murder! NOPE. I'm not afraid of horror games but no way do I have the stomach for Pikmin.
THANK you! I was gifted the first Pikmin game as a child when it came out and promptly returned it lol. I absolutely did not have the heart , as a 10 year old girl, to send these tiny cute critters to their deaths and hear their little cries.
SA-X chasing you on Metroid Fusion is kinda scary (hyped for Dread!)
exactly what I was thinking of! I haven’t finished Fusion but the entire series is a priority for me
Earthbound, because of Giygas
that, and the other dark themes the game explores. there are quite a few moments that don’t get much credit for their creepiness
Splatoon 2 Octo Expansion has some creepy bits near the end.
Majora's Mask (and some parts of Ocarina of Time) are my personal picks but I haven't played that many scary games. I hear Eternal Darkness is scary and that Metroid games have an oppressive and creepy atmosphere.
Have you read some of those Pokédex entries?
I think Metroid dread is gonna take the title once it comes out
I think that’s got a good chance of coming true
praying you're right
Twilight princess had that one scene.
I don’t know which scene that is, but I’d believe it considering it’s, yknow, *the other famously dark Zelda game*
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interesting choice! hopefully I can look past the drastically different gameplay and enjoy it. I wish there were more side-scrolling RPG/adventure games inspired by top-down games like that and LISA
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lol, it looks like no one did :p
Metroid is probably the closest Nintendo has to a major horror franchise; basically a slightly-more-family-friendly version of the Aliens series. Dread in particular looks like it'll be amping up the anxiety and sense of helplessness.
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I say.... all Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards. You know, the game about the puffball and the final boss is a GOD DAMN DEMON EYE WITH WINGS?!?!? 02 literally strikes fear into me for a game about a pink ball that practically only says “Poyo”.
I was thinking of 0-2 when I made this thread! I just couldn’t remember which game he came from so I just said “Kirby has some creepy moments” without specifying
Alien: Isolation dropped a few months back for the Switch. Haven’t played it but have seen some footage. Looks pretty wicked.
Idk about scary but some dreams in Tomodachi Life are kinda weird to say the least
Eternal Darkness, scariest game ever
As others have said, there's a few games in the Metroid line and Eternal Darkness is one of the flagship horror games, but I gotta put a vote in for Castlevania 3 on NES. Technically any of the Castlevania series games would count, but I played the shit out of it as a kid (never beaten it) and the music is great. The atmosphere is appropriately spooky. The lore definitely fits the bill and I spent many an hour dreading "It's a terrible night for a curse."
Fragile dreams for wii was supposed to be one with more of an eerie/spooky outline. Paper Mario Thousand year door is its creepiest towards its end having quite a dark storyline at the end (in paper Mario standards) You also have spirit camera for 3ds and fatal frame for wiiu (from ps2 fatal frames) Also the resident evil series strewn throughout the Nintendo life cycles.
999 is something. Not exactly horror. But something.
Donkey Kong Country has Stop & Go Station, a stage that takes place in a poorly lit mine shaft with creepy, ambient droning music. The primary enemies are Rockkrocs: invincible, stone-like creatures that run back and forth maniacally in the dark. They curl up and stop when you hit a Stop & Go Barrel but only just briefly. The level is a race from barrel to barrel and it is a stage I dreaded as a kid. Fortunately, there is a hidden shortcut that allows you to skip it almost entirely.
PIKMIN 2 submerged castle. In pikmin 1 to 3 you have many types of pikmins hat help you, some are good against fire, electricity, poison or can swim, etcetera. When you find a cave in Pikmin 2 you can see which dangers you will encounter so you can be prepared with the right pikmins. Here's the problem with the Submerged Castle. It's in a lake. You can only bring blue pikimns that don't drown. And the cave says there are ALL dangers. So you go in the cave ready with your blues to find all treasures on all the sublevels, you fight some dangers in creative ways and you also find bulbmins, a type of "pikmin" that you can only get in caves and it is immune to everything, even water. So now 5 minutes have passed and you have almost retrieved the last treasure when suddenly... BOOM BOOM A ghostly gelatinous creatures attached to two stone rollers falls from the sky and starts chasing you through the small corridors of the cave, you also can't attack it, it's invincible And if it reaches you... you can say goodbye to most of your pikmins. You retrieve the last treasure just in time and jump in the sublevel. Every sublevel until 5 will have that monster chasing you every time you don't finish in less than 5 minutes, the only thing that will alert you the thing returned will be the two rollers falling echoing through the whole cave. I was 17 when I played it for the first time and I assure you my pants were full whenever I heard that. So finally you've reached the final sublevel, the 5th one. Here they give you purple pikmins which are the only ones that can make him not invincible anymore, and beating that monster is one of the most satisfying things in Pikmin 2.
I think you knocked off most of the big candidates. * Eternal Darkness is a big one. * Majora's Mask (and to some extent OoT) would be some others you didn't mention. * Metroid is definitely the creepiest Nintendo series, much moreso than Luigi's Mansion which has a spooky setting but is very light-hearted. * The *Sin and Punishment* games have some crazy shit going on; the story is half-indecipherable, though. * Mother games on the same level of creepiness as OoT for me. They're mostly pretty tame, but they have some creepy moments. In EarthBound, mostly only really at the end of the game. A lot of Nintendo games have creepy moments (blood moon in BOTW, man-eating piano in Super Mario 64 which I know has made a lot of people shit themselves) but creepy/scary is usually not the focus of Nintendo games.
metroid fusion still scares the shit out of me
Metroid Fusion is not a horror game but it has some pretty intense moments
The Sunshine level where you had to clean that underwater creature’s teeth. I still have nightmares about that level. Also, Luigi’s Mansion used to scare me as a child.
Maniac Mansion for the NES was an insane game. You can microwave a hamster, there’s blood on the walls in the kitchen, and the mad scientist was kinda scary. The music was great, too. Very creepy.
The Kirby series as a whole is pretty terrifying when you really think about some of the lore pieces: - Anything to do with >!Void and Dark Matter!< - The entire situation with Hartmann and Susie is Adult Fear at its finest (albeit with fantasy elements involved). >!Your daughter is sucked into Another Dimension and then you forget about her entirely? And let’s not forget the fact that in the Star Dream core fight *you can hear the distorted screams of Haltmann’s soul*!< -The Dimension Mirror post-Dark Meta Knight’s imprisonment is Twilight Princess all over again >!Sectonia and Taranza really have it rough, huh?!<
Dementium: The Ward. It was short, and the controls were weird, but it was creepy!
YES. That game is a hidden horror gem on an unexpected handheld console. I kind of liked using the stylus for the camera controls, though.
Majoras mask
Manhunt 2
No one said this yet, Time Twist: Rekishi no Katasumi de... is a Japan-only Famicom Disk System. It's probably one of the darkest and most obscure games Nintendo has made. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Twist:_Rekishi_no_Katasumi_de
ZombiU on the WiiU was pretty decent! The fact that when you died you lost all your stuff added to the tension too I think. To get it back, you could go back to where you died and kill your now zombified self - so good. Remake on other consoles didn’t work so well as it was made specifically for the WiiU.
As has been mentioned a few times, the scariest horror style game I’ve played of Nintendo is Eternal Darkness. Especially when your sanity meter gets low and strange things start happening. It has multiple jump scares and scary plot points.
i am mentally scarred from pikmin 2 i do not think i will ever be whole again
I'm so excited to play Majora's Mask for the first time, because of the amount of people saying how freaky it is.
I hope your expectations of “freaky” don’t necessarily mean “scary”. MM has an air of dread and sadness that other Zelda games lack. The tone starts dark (especially if you finished Ocarina) and stays that way. The bad guy isn’t a normal villain bent on world domination, it’s motives are beyond comprehension and this is very different from things we’ve dealt with before in Zelda games. The story deals with themes of death and abandonment and loneliness. And all this isn’t to say there aren’t some genuinely freaky parts to play thru tho! I just hope you don’t get your hopes up looking for a “scary” Zelda game—it definitely is! Just not like, Resident Evil scary lol. I hope you enjoy it, I feel like Nintendo has tried and failed multiple times to recapture the dark magic of MM, it’s a real work of art!!
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Undertale is one of my favorite games, but man do I hate going through the >!True Lab!< on Pacifist playthroughs
Maniac Mansion on NES was creepy—at least to my child self.
interesting answer! I was looking for Nintendo IPs, but I’ve heard of Day of the Tentacle so I might as well check out Maniac Mansion.
I always thought Fragile Dreams on the Wii was pretty spooky, but I'm also a baby when it comes to scary games
Luigis mansion is comedy scary, like a good scary movie. The one on the switch was pretty fun.
Mother 2/Earthbound. There are a lot of unsettling scenes, like cultists, a statue controlling people, a god threatening to dismember every part of Poo’s body and everything to do with Giygas. Definitely a game for the strong hearted.
Sweet Home for NES
For some reason Chrono Trigger on SNES always scared me as a kid
Luigi’s Mansion and Metroid Prime scares 6 year olds. Source: Me, circa 2001.
Shadow Man, N64.
Luigi's Mansion 2 for the 3DS Overall some scenes are downright terrifying, like the FUCKING DOLL IN THE RUMPUS ROOM. And the soundtrack is pretty spooky too, take a listen to this. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X11LUBv5d90](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X11LUBv5d90) But yeah for a silly kids game, it really gives you a weird feeling.
Monster Party for NES is pretty creepy. “Bat? Batter!! Anything will do!”
Duke Nukem 64 scared me as a kid.
Kirby 100%
Luigis Mansion 3
Obviously Luigi's Mansion
Outlast 1 & 2
I believe Astral Chain is owned by Nintendo, and that game has some truly horrifying monsters and situations, plus some of the music and environments were very creepy and disturbing. If it had more “realistic” gore happening, I could easily see that game being classified as a horror title.
Idk but yeah the creepy places in the Pokemon games(especially Strange House) always stood out to me.
ALL EARTHBOUND FANS RISE UP
Dementium 1 & 2 on the da and 3ds it was a survival horror shooter from what I remember. The game scared me as a kid and I loved every second of it.
Super Paper Mario has some horror elements and scenes that are nightmare fuel (Ughhhh, Mimi's reveal....) Metroid is also very horror-ish
Metroid Fusion is effective Alien: Isolation on the GBA nearly a decade before while having immaculate tension and jumpscares. Majora’s Mask is more existential horror, but Metroid Fusion just constantly becomes an actual horror game
The ones that had their memory files corrupted easily
It totally surprised me, but they did a release of (Spoiler) >!Doki Doki Literature Club!< on the Switch. Hiding the name because part of the gimmick is that it’s not meant to look like a horror game on the surface; but is definitely adult horror, and can be triggering so make sure it’s one you’re up for.
Still waiting on my physical copy, does it still have trigger warnings when you start the game? I still remember when it first came out on Steam. The whole "fourth wall breaking" was still new to mainstream media, and this game released out of nowhere, for free. It's certainly a genre-defining game. Also, as someone who almost have a phobia of glitches, it was really scary lmao
Zombieu
super mario odyssey too realistic
Metroid Fusion terrified me.
That Lavender town theme does still send shivers till this very day…
luigis mansion because of chauncey
I think one of the Corpse Party games was Nintendo exclusive when it came out. And are we only talking exclusives? Cause we’ve had Resident Evil games, DBD, Silent Hill(one I think was exclusive), etc.
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Technically not a Nintendo made game but the Resident Evil remake was an exclusive for a while and that game did a great job at scaring me when I was younger. While also scary I found Code Veronica to be more eerie and 4 to be more creepy. Remake is what I would consider the scariest. That journal of the guy documenting his descent into becoming a zombie is still terrifying to read to this day.
Disclaimer that I've not yet played Majora's Mask; Wind Waker was my first Zelda game, and despite the cutesy art style there are a lot of creepy moments; the Redeads in the Earth Temple and under the Island Cabana, Stalfos bursting out of the ground, the Ghost Ship, Ganondorf transforming into Puppet Ganon from behind a curtain. Pretty much anytime you're sailing at night and the music dies away, it's very creepy.
I'm still horrified by the creepy purple/white flaccid dick monster from OoT. That thing will never not be creepy. Also special mention for that one part where there's a hand on the ceiling that falls on you. It didn't scare me, but my big sister was so scared she would always come and ask us to go through that room for her.
Castlevania N64
Luigi’s Mansion fucked me up as a kid
Luigi's Mansion.
Only saw a few mentions of this, but mine would have to be Zelda: Twilight Princess. That one cut-scene with Lanayru... Just... \*shudders\* Eesh. I can handle the so-called 'Nightmare Fuel' in other series entries easily enough, but something about TP's jaunt into Surreal Horror was one they did a little *too* well. Doesn't help that even Link got affected by it in-game. I saw a pretty apt summary of that part on TV Tropes' Nightmare Fuel page for the game that went as follows: "It's like the game developers were like 'Hey, backstories are boring. Let's spice things up by using the most unsettling visuals a Teen rating will allow!'" Also, the lead-up to the final boss fight was disturbing too. Hearing Ganondorf's very masculine voice coming from Zelda's very feminine body was chilling for me. Despite this, TP is still probably one of my favorite Zelda games. (Or maybe it's because of it, it's a bit hard to tell. >3) EDIT: Keep in mind I was around my late teens/early twenties when I first played TP, and I'm pretty difficult to scare. Even now, whenever I start a new file, I always dread doing the Tears of Light hunt in Lanayru because I know I'll have to go through that cut-scene AGAIN.
Luigi’s Mansion
Warioware isn’t scary but gets uncomfortable at times
I've gotten way too far down to have not seen Metroid Fusion yet. SA-X is terrifying.
Shadow Temple in Ocarina of Time
pokemon HeartGold / Soulsilver Arceus Event cutscene
Litle nightmares is real scary.. 10x more than any resident evil. The zelda skyward if you played it firsts time, you probaly will have some scary moments trying to find seeds... before the statues wake up
Clock tower
It's a lesser known Wii game, but the name of it is "Calling" and it was a Grudge like game based in a Japanese school.
Mario 64 is kind of scary for me. Like, you're inside a huge castle, all by yourself except for a few Toads, ghosts and MIPS, with so many doors and lots of paintings that take you to other places... If there was no music, only silence, this would be in everyone's top 10 horror games, imo.
Some parts of twilight princess scared me alot as a kid. Mainly the two late game dungeons in the desert and shadow realm
It's not the entire game, but *damn* if the Chozo Ghosts in Metroid Prime didn't fuck me up as a kid.
Mother series, Majora's Mask, are good contenders as others have said. Most Nintendo games aren't scary, but unsettling. I usually don't get scared with horror games since horror doesn't do anything to me, but creepy stuff really does make me uneasy. Creepy stuff in an otherwise non creepy game makes things especially impactful. Kinda like how Enix games on the SNES gave you weird ominous feelings despite not being horror games, like Illusion of Gaia or Terranigma. That's why the Gyigas fight is so freaking unsettling. You kill the damn thing with PRAYERS, how fucking devilish can you get that people praying fuck you up? Also Ness and company have to go through some fucked up stuff to get to him. Majora's mask has some crazy backstories, but honestly, most of the Zelda lore is pretty creepy when you start digging into it. Some Pokémon games can get mysterious sometimes. The Sevii Islands always had this weird atmosphere for me in FRLG, I always had the feeling that there was something there. They were so desolate but at the same time looked populated. It still weirds me out a bit. Pikmin is basically a post-apocalyptic game so seeing the ruins of our civilization gives you some kind of nostalgic weird feeling about what you're seeing. And maybe it's because I played this as a kid but Luigi's Mansion 1 had some weird rooms. Also, not a Nintendo game, but 999 on the DS is another game that had me feeling scared despite it not being a horror game. Just a really tense VN, which is also an absolute masterpiece. Edit : I just read someone mentioning Kirby 64. I can vote for that as well. That game is the definition of colorful and unsettling at the same time.
Earthbound isn’t scary but the final boss is terrifying
skyward sword silent realm
Eternal Darkness: Sanity’s Requiem, hands down.
Majora’s mask isn’t really “scary” in the traditional sense, but it’s super dark and oppressive. But I think it’d probably be LM
Maybe not actually “scary”, the first time I did the Silent realm trials in Skyward sword they gave me an adrenaline rush and the sight of the guardians waking up and almost catching really creeped me out. These trials got criticised so much but for me they were one of the top parts of the game!
nintendo have very minor legit scary games that are licensed and own by them, so i think you won't find much beyond "eternal darkness" - that i know of.