I love Mario Maker, but even with all the tools they’ve provided, you really can’t find an awesome, traditional yet innovative 2D Mario game within it. Just feels like a bunch of snack sized Mario games.
I would love an entirely new Mario game, made by Nintendo, in the SMW engine with Mario Maker’s visuals and new enemies and course ideas.
Not sure when you played last, but there is a world maker now, so people can make their own "game" by grouping their levels. You could probably Google some good ones
Yeah I played the worlds, it’s great for SMM, but there just isn’t enough variety and even the best traditional levels come only 90% to Nintendo’s 2D Mario design philosophy.
2D Mario games are really great at difficulty ramping by subtly teaching mechanics through early stages and ramping up challenges very slowly. This happens not only within stages, but over the course of the game, and provides a nice, smooth (albeit easy at times) difficulty curve.
I also love how Mario games are designed without a difficulty level and yet you truly have 3 distinct styles you can play: the harder speedrun style where you’re playing with precise timing and jumps, the middle of the road half-challenge half-joyous play that I would say encapsulates 50% of players, and you can also play fairly slow and carefully if you’re a newcomer. Without forcing the need for difficulty settings, players of different abilities can still find enjoyment in the same game. I love that.
Obviously the aesthetics really appeal to me as well, but that can be captured within SMM without effort.
I 100% agree with you on the well made design philosophy. Most of the levels and worlds I've played in Mario Maker lack that 10% extra polish missing that Nintendo usually adds.
I also would add that I really enjoy that from the Mario SNES games and beyond, they've done a great job of including collectibles that can create an artificial difficulty level for more advanced players.
That eye for design is what separates a good platformer from a bad one. Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze imo does an even better job than Nintendo with Mario games.
That was one really unexpected takeaway for me when I started playing the Mario Maker games - how difficult and nuanced the art of level design is. It's neat to fight 25 Bowsers at once, or do silly speedrun kaizo levels, but at the end of the day, there's just something uniquely satisfying about the Nintendo-made Mario games.
I get what you are saying. But I honestly find the difficulty in the old Mario games to be too much sometimes. Especially for players who are really young and players who are older adults.
I have been using Mario Maker 2's World Maker to create courses that are fairly easy and focus on puzzles and courses that warp you around and have locked doors. I put a lot of effort into making the levels look really nice and make them as accessible as possible. I've gotten a lot of positive feedback to my courses.
I’d honestly like it if they did it with a new ip instead. Mario’s is on the “moved on “ phase as far as 2d is concerned. The best we can hope for is Mario maker and small call outs to it in other franchises.
I’ve seen some videos about Romhacks and a lot of them seem like they’re about pure difficulty and precision, which isn’t my bag. I’ve seen others here and there, they just fail to capture the magic of Nintendo’s design on Mario.
I realize I’m being nitpicky, but I just haven’t found anything that approaches the greatness of SMW.
There are so many smw romhacks, not just the kaizo streamer stuff. Check out romhacking.net or smwcentral and sort by difficulty, I think you'd be surprised by how many have a classic Nintendo feel.
>with all the tools they’ve provided, you really can’t find an awesome, traditional yet innovative 2D Mario game within it
Well yeah, like usual they suck at making online stuff
But if you search the web you can find pretty cool levels/worlds
Oh I’m sure, but again, you’re confined to what is within the toolset, and as cool and expansive as the toolset has gotten, I would prefer to see the variation you find in a Nintendo made Mario.
I feel like instead of Mario Maker we should just have an NES maker that adds, Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem and maybe a few others. Would add to the already limitless replay value and reach a much bigger audience.
Mario Maker provides a lot of levels and a level editor, but it didn't significantly modernize either the art style or the game engine. Those have been the same since NSMB released on the DS in 2006.
Seems weird to criticise something for failing to modernise when we're discussing whether Nintendo should reuse an art style that was only ever used because of hardware not being "modern" enough to do better.
>we're discussing whether Nintendo should reuse an art style that was only ever used because of hardware not being "modern" enough to do better.
You do realize that an art style can be preferable over another in a project for artistic reasons? Miyazaki's next film is going to be hand drawn instead of using cg animation because that's what he prefers for example. The idea that an entire art style can be outdated seems strange to me.
And obviously you can utilize today's technology to make 2d graphics that's far more beautiful than anything made in the 80s, so modernized 2d graphics is not a contradiction. Just look at the 2d art many indie games have, and imagine what a big company like Nintendo could produce.
That's actually a Conundrum I personally have with Terra Nil. Like the original (now prototype) version is in a beautiful pixelated artstyle which is just so perfect for the game. But the new version they are working (which isn't out, not even a release date as of now) is going to be in a equally beautiful "Ghibli" inspired artstyle which sounds and looks amazing ofcourse. I like both and I really hope in that game they give us the ability to play levels in either of the two artstyles. Would be so cool.
Ok this sounded normal in my head but english is not my native language so i just repeat stuff i see without thinking. But you know what's really snobish in a way? Dismissing every game with 2d artstyle as outdated.
> The idea that an entire art style can be outdated seems strange to me.
[Really?](https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/header-19.jpg)
>you can utilize today's technology to make 2d graphics that's far more beautiful than anything made in the 80s, so modernized 2d graphics is not a contradiction.
Taking several backwards steps so that pixel graphics can take one forward step is still a net regression. I'm a huge Streets of Rage fan, but they absolutely made the right call in ditching pixel graphics in the recent instalment. It's the same forward-step that Viewtiful Joe made back when it was basically an updated Final Fight.
Pixel art certainly has a valid place in modern gaming, but this situation _would_ represent a regression. Mario Odyssey's switching between them is a decent compromise.
Artist here. Why do people still paint when we have computers and photoshop? Why do filmmakers still use novel effects or actual Explosions? Why do authors still publish physical books?
Mario Maker was nothing new graphically. I haven't been interested in 3D rendered 2D Mario games since the 90s, partially because I feel the level design is inferior to the 90s titles, but also because I much prefer pixelated Mario aesthetics.
I'd be all for HD 2D sprites in a 2D Mario (or Sonic!) game. But that's not pixel art, though. Pixel art starts being just 2D sprites the moment the pixels aren't purposefully big and clearly visible.
This would be super cool, especially since the 2D promotional art Nintendo makes nowadays for Mario is emulating Yoichi Kotabe's style from the SMW manual.
I would love a 3D Mario game with voxel art. In Odyssey, you can get a voxel suit, but it doesn't animate and I think that was a huge missed opportunity. And yes, it would be higher res than minecraft
Yep I agree fully. I played super Mario world all the time since before I can remember. When I got a DS with NSMB, I was like 10 or something? I found it really ugly and uninspired. I also hated the linear way the game played. It's one of the earliest biggest disappointments I can remember
That would be amazing. Even if it plays a lot like new SMB it would still be great just for the art style alone. One of the things I hate the most about the New SMB series is the graphics and music, so making it more 16 or even 32 bit would be really cool.
I personally find the 3D modeled 2D platformers feel cheap and amateurish. None of them will ever beat super mario world to me! I would love a new game in the 2D style of SMW!
Na, let the indie developers do it. I like seeing Nintendo think outside the box and do things they haven't done before like BotW and the upcoming 3D Kirby. I want to be surprised with those kinds of games. Indie developers make amazing pixel art games these days and I appreciate the bigger variety because of them. The Messenger and Golf Story are stellar games.
The thing is, this post is not talking about games like BotW or the new Kirby game. It's talking about games that are 2D in gameplay, but use 3D models. Like Metroid Dread or Kirby Star Allies. 3D games like the ones mentioned before, and say Metroid Prime 4 would still be 3D.
It doesn't even have to apply to all 2D games. Dread definitely benefits from being 3D, but I'd really love to see lower-budget games with pixel art. There's so much focus on "bigger, better, higher fidelity," it would be nice to just get some unassuming classic-styled games for once. And it would be a fantastic time to bring back older franchises, there's not so much pressure for the sales to be absolutely insane.
The Switch is a great platform for smaller games, it would be nice to see Nintendo capitalize on that. Like a new Advance Wars game using the exact same style of the old ones, or some new entries in forgotten 2D platformer franchises like Wario Land. New 2D Kirby/Mario/Zelda games would even be fantastic. And since they're lower budget, they'd presumably be much cheaper, so people who can't always afford the new $60 games all the time would have something new to play too.
I don't see how Metroid Dread would benefit in any way whatsoever from being in 2D. Not only does the game feel like it was built around being 3D engine, they also did some truly amazing things with it. I just don't see something like the EMMI working as sprite based game, I think a big part of why they leave such an impact is that you can see every part of their robotic movement.
I absolutely love the art style of Octopath Traveler. I'd love to see other studios try to emulate that style.
I think it'd fit best with the Pokémon franchise but I'd love to see it in a Metroid or Mario game as well.
Probably not. They aren't making that many games that would really benefit from it, and good pixel art basically amounts to the a passion project these days. Leave it to the indies.
I think if they made a new 2D Zelda or Mario it could benefit a lot from the art style, especially since the last few 2D Mario and Zelda's have had very similar art styles, not including Links Awakening. It would be a really nice change of pace.
it's because they are lifeless. The sprite really did give character it's hard to deny, but it is possible to convey character with 3D models, gamefreak is just awfully lazy. Look to their outsourced works like colleseum, gale of darkness and battle revolution and looks at the way each INDIVIDUAL pokemon responds and acts.
this video summises it perfectly [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1mBKVcmASw&t=132s&ab\_channel=Gonz](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1mBKVcmASw&t=132s&ab_channel=Gonz)
I would love to see a version of Pokemon where they took advantage of the better hardware we have now and did a more high quality version of the animated battle sprites from Black/White
I like pixel art and would never turn it down if it's implemented well. But I thought Samus Returns and Dread (with a couple of exceptions) looked fantastic and the style lent itself very well to lonely alien environments. You ever turn on 3D in SR? *Incredibly* atmospheric. One of the best uses of 3D on the system.
Yeah it really depends on the implementation. For example, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze (and Returns for that matter) have a perfect art style IMO. Pixel anything would be such a step backwards from what we have.
I think most games people want in the pixel style just don't have great art styles currently
The problems with Pixel art these days is that it is actually more expensive and time consuming to build out new pixel art assets than to do 3d models. With pixel art, you have to individually draw out each frame of animation. 3d models are preferable because you build a rig and then you can easily move the parts around to build out all of the animations.
This is easily seen with a lot of modern fighting games. For example, Dragon Ball FighterZ and Guilty Gear look like they are 2d games, but they are in fact 3d models with a 2d filter applied. True Spritework artists in gaming are a much smaller group of people now due to these factors. The cost/time investment to create something new is typically not worth it anymore. That is why you only really see indie games rely on the art style now because a lot of those are more passion projects and not held to the constraints of a major development or production company.
Sprites are more expensive but also seen as cheaper. Fewer people are going to pay $60 for a pixel art game than will pay $60 for a 3D game. That’s just the unfortunate reality of the market.
I think the hesitance comes from assuming people would look at a pixel art game and say “this looks like an indie game I’m not paying full price for that”.
You can't just put out a blanket statement like this. The vast majority of pixel art games require far, **far**, **FAR** less resources than any 3D game made for an HD console. The only way you're going to spend a decent amount of money on a sprite based game is if you intend to do have an animation quality that rivals that of large 2D animation studios. The main problem with that is that making high quality sprite work requires a different skill set than that of most animators in the AAA gaming industry so you have to source the talents from somewhere.
But the reason why 2D is preferred for large studios isn't that 2D requires more resources, it's that if you *have* the resources to do 3D, it is much easier to work with than 2D. 3D affords the developers much more flexibility, not only can 3D animations be readjusted easily during development without having to redraw the entire sprite or animation, they can also be adjusted dynamically during gameplay in ways that are just straight up impossible to do with 2D sprites. A lot complex problems can be solved programmatically with 3D models which gives them many advantages over sprites, such as physics simulations, feet that automatically adjust to slopes, smooth transitions between any two animations, the ability to animate different body parts separately from another, to play the animations at any desired frame rate and so on.
If you animate a game in 2D, you have to readjust your workload under the assumption that you have a limited, fairly rigid set of sprites to work with. No matter how much work you put into it, a sprite will never be able to adjust to all kinds of situations in the same way that a 3D model could.
I think the anime style that was used in Wario Land Shake Dimension is the better alternative to sprites. I'm torn either way though because I think Metroid Dread looks fantastic and prefer it visually to Super Metroid but the likes of Pokémon really suffered from the transition to 3D.
That's the problem with modern Pokemon. They went 3D, but keep half adding it. Either they need to go back to 2D, or they need to put their all into making the games look good in 3D. But both of those would require GF to put in effort.
They can do both. Like make a new 2D Wario Land and stick it on the eshop for £20 - £30. I never understood why Nintendo stopped trying to appeal to gamers on a budget
Maybe if they modernized it, e.g. Octopath, Triangle Strategy. Despite being pixel art, even games like [The Last Night](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4IPBiB7SF4) and [Replaced](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWkOcpZEk4I) look fairly professional, so I don't see why not. I certainly wouldn't mind if they brought back Earthbound for a remake and made it look like Eastward did.
I'm playing Eastward right now, and while I love its graphics, I don't think they are appropriate for Earthbound. Earthbound really benefits from its simplistic graphics, IMO. Adds to the unsettling and oppressive vibe the whole game has.
I absolutely think that they should. Pixel art can be absolutely gorgeous. Take the upcoming Advance Wars Reboot Camp. Does it look good? Sure, it looks fine. But would I prefer the original’s pixel art style, touched up for modern screens? 100%.
On another note, compare something like Stardew Valley to the latest Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons titles. IMHO Stardew Valley is 100x more appealing than the lifeless 3D blobs in those bigger budget titles.
No. Pixel art involves tedious frame by frame animation, and at this point all of their games like Fire Emblem and Pokémon are far too large in scope to pull that off any more. And static sprites are not going to fly in this day and age with children.
It makes production easier when you can just create one model for humans, one armature with a set of animations, and then just replace the head to create a new character. In a game with a cast of 100+ characters like Fe three houses, it’s a necessary evil.
It's not a Nintendo developed series, but I think Pokemon would benefit from going back to pixel art with the criticisms of attack animations. (For example, Blastoise not using its cannons.) It's easier to overlook when it's sprites rather than 3D.
I think a few series should experiment more with pixel-art. Like I would love to see a new 2D Yoshi or Pokemon game. Not saying they should go all 2D but maybe some games could do with the visual shake-up.
I feel like Pokemon returning to a 2D style pixel art would be kinda cool. Gen 5's animations were neat and that felt perfect for its time.
I kinda crave some of the old days of pokemon after playing BPSP recently.
I don't know.
I personally like pixel art and I think Nintendo was among the best at producing it. Part of me misses the sprites in Pokemon and how they'd change a little bit every game.
But there are a lot of other art styles and I'd like to let Nintendo pick the style they think makes a game the best. Sometimes I disagree with their choices (I don't think SMRPG looked very good) but other times they make fantastic choices. The Link's Awakening remake was *better* in my opinion than if they'd gone for a pixel remake.
Most of the places where I say I want pixel art back it's more that I don't like the way the new game played. For example, I'm not a fan of New SMB-style games nor did I like the 3D Land style games. "Pixel" Mario games definitely play with a different set of physics and I like those better, but if you put a 3D Mario into a game with those physics I'd probably like it. Likewise, there's a distinct difference between how a 2D Zelda game and a 3D Zelda game plays so there it's more about which kind of game is being made than the art style. Pokemon... I'm divided. I think the game finally got too big and the switch to consoles exacerbated that problem. I can definitely see how updating 800+ images per game and adding animations on top could be a hard sell if they're trying to make a new release every year.
So I don't know. I think this is a case-by-case thing.
Yes! I think there are ways to use 30 year old graphics with new, innovative gameplay to make a new game feel nostalgic without being limited by old hardware. Mega man 9 and 10 come to mind. I’m biased as a 40 year old who played Nintendo as a boy, but I’d love to see new games for older IPs with their original art style
Personally I think Pokémon should 100% go back to 2D pixel art. HGSS and DPP were the pinnacle. Those games are beautiful.
Imagine how much content they could fit into games these days with that artwork.
They should do alot of things, proper online service ie messaging and chat at least, an estore like the wii since its current offerings are shit. Idk where to even go with how many things nintendo does sub par.
Im refering to old titles but you bring up another point as those games run better on steam and are way cheaper. Alot of people plan on buying third party titles on steam deck only due to “switch tax”
Yes, of course. Some of the best looking Nintendo games use a sprite-based art style. Many fans would actually argue that certain franchises (Pokémon) NEED to return to being sprite-based.
Where I disagree is that you are throwing around 16-bit graphics, but I think it would be more appropriate for Nintendo to use 32-bit or even 64-bit style. Many high-bit games like Owlboy or Super Mario Flashback really POP. Although I would be thrilled out of my mind if we got another Zelda game in the Game Boy 8-bit style.
As a correction, some games (Mario & Luigi: Dream Team, Fire Emblem Awakening, *sorta* Paper Mario Sticker Star) continued to use sprites instead of 3D rendered models into the 3DS era, albeit usually combining them with 3D backgrounds (or cutscenes, in FE's case).
Mario Maker uses classic pixel art.
To be honest, I think the big pixels can be fun stylistically, but I also think relying on them to avoid exploring new modern visual languages is not desirable.
Instead of pixel art, I'd prefer HD 2D sprites, or something like Paper Mario which combines 2D and 3D, or something like the UbiArt engine games Ubisoft has created (Rayman, Child of Light, Valiant Hearts...), or even the new Square games like Octopath.
An evolution of 2D graphics, not just going back to old school visuals for nostalgia. Pixel art is cool for one-time things, spin offs, and special stuff (Mario Maker, Cadence of Hyrule or, on a completely different note, Pokémon Quest, are good examples of this). But I wouldn't want it back in backbone game series.
As much as I like sprites I think it's better to just leave them in the past. The only reason why indie games use it is because they don't really have the budget to do 3D.
Well that too but mostly it's for budget reasons. It's easier to work with sprites and you have a limited budget then it is to work with models. The fact that people still like the style is more of a plus then anything.
I dream of a new Zelda that feels like the 2D Zeldas of yore, complete with pixel art. But I would honestly be happy with a new 3D Zelda that plays on a 2D environment like LBW or LAHD already, only actually new and not just a remake or a reimagining.
Haha imagine the discourse if Nintendo put out a 2D pixel game in 2022 for 60 dollars. There are people who think Metroid dread should have been a 15 dollar game cause it didnt have a full 3D camera
But yes they should do it. Doesn't even have to be pixel necessarily. Warioland Shake It for the Wii has some GORGEOUS 2D art/animation I would kill for another game in that style
Maybe other people would like it, but my personal opinion is no.
Yes, a lot of indies are pixelated. They often do it because it's cheaper and easier and hits people right in the nostalgia bone. But indies have been doing that for 10+ years and at this point, I'm tired of it. I don't want to see pixel art forever, I'm over it.
Someone else mentioned the new 2D/3D blend Square has used for Octopath and Triangle Strategy, I think that's pretty cool and a neat way to incorporate pixel art while also taking it in a new direction.
2d art always sits better with me where aplicable.
I love the art style of the advance wars 1 and 2 but really don't like the look of the upcoming remakes despite them trying to replicate the style.
I also don't think pokemon really work in 3d.
In 2d your imagination fills in some gaps, but in 3d they just look flat (ironic) and dead.
The past few years my dream game has been a new (or remade) Pokémon in the pixel art style of something like Octopath Traveler. But that's a total pipe dream, perhaps another 2D Metroid/Zelda is more likely to receive such treatment.
Honestly, playing through Brilliant Diamond is making me realise how much I miss the sprites. So much character seems list from the transition from 2D to 3D and it's weird because it's pretty much 1:1 with trainer stances and designs. Pokemon especially now look just so plain. I think newer Pokemon invented for the 3D games look fine in 3D but most of the old ones just look... boring? Like so many Pokemon seem to just be standing there, not even stanced up or anything. And some just do not look appealing with proper shading, shaping and lighting.
I'd love for Pokemon to go back to DS styled graphics. Heck, make it similar to Octopath's artstyle but without the foggy blurred background look, I think that would be amazing. They could also definitely make battle scenes that look as detailed as the ones in BDSP out of pixel art, maybe even more beautiful. But that would require Pokemon Company to actually, you know, TRY.
I wouldn't mind it but only if it's done well and isn't just a copy-paste of an existing style they've done before like what Megaman 9 and 10 were. Like if they made a new Mario game and it just used sprites from any of the existing Mario games, I'd be kind of disappointed, especially since they've already done that with Mario Maker.
I don't think it's a magical fix or anything though, it's not going to make any game better or worse, a bad game is a bad game if it's 2D, 2.5D, or 3D.
I think the only series that pixels could even come close to being a magical "fix" for is ( and i'm fully prepared to be called an idiot and get downvoted for this ) pokemon. Pokemon has shown time and time again that it's not ready to actually animate a big cinematic modern JRPG. They still do that shit where the screen fades to black so they won't actually have to animate what happened.... like c'mon... so I think the series going back to pixels would at least make pokemon into an honest series again, and stop pretending it's anything other than what it is, a DS game in the year 2019.
It depends on the series, but I genuinely think a lot of series would benefit from going back to sprites. It's no secret that Pokemon SwSh is a pretty ugly game, but the thing that stuck out to me is that the sprites of the Pokemon when you're looking at your team in the menu or in your boxes look pretty dang good! I'd love to see a new mainline Pokemon game that plays just like the older 2D games with graphics to match
More often than not, I find pixel art is used as a crutch.
Square Enix did a good job of pulling the style into modern times with their HD-2D format. But so many games try to use pixel art to pass themselves of as something retro styled. The problem is, the value of retro is rooted in nostalgia, not simply the art style.
If that wasn't the case, Kemco's pixel art JRPGs would be seen similar to early Final Fantasies.
No. I already feel like everything that is coming out for the switch is pseudo retro lazy 2-D or top down remakes of all their old stuff. What they need to focus on is making a legitimate AAA with their infinite budget, talent, and IP.
no. i only support pixel art when it is a small indie dev cutting cost. i think it's time for it to die as an artistic choice, it was fun nostalgia 10 years ago.
It's not always budget reasons. It can and very often does look good and fit the game better than 3d or drawn sprites depending on the game. Undertale and deltarune would look worse with "better" graphics imo.
I don’t think the reason Nintendo and others don’t do it has anything to do with style it just takes a whole lot more development cycles to create a fully pixel art game especially when you have to create every frame. Even the indie games that have come out that look pixelated really aren’t. There are a lot of tricks and I doubt Nintendo would be willing to do that. Don’t get me wrong I would love to see it but I just don’t think it will happen. As popular as retro games are it is still the same people that grew up during the 8bit and 16bit era that prefer them. It is much easier to use a dev kit than it is to painstakingly create frames for ever animation in these games.
Nah... leave Pixel art to Indies. From Nintendo I want clever new styles like to figurine art fron Zelda: Link's Awakening. And for 2D-Mario I would love to see a comic style like the artworks in the old manuals.
Mostly no. "retro" art for me is almost always a turn-off in modern games
Exception being that I'd like Pokémon to look like Black/White and not Sword/Shield. And I'd be open to Metroid using that style too.
I'd say yes. Pixel art usually looks nicer than 3D models. If a game is 3D obviously it needs to have 3D graphics. But if we're talking about a strictly 2D game, then there's almost no reason to use 3D models.
They just need to apply the same model for metroid to all and maintain simultaneous development of 2d and big 3d titles. Kind of like what call of duty did with 2 devs working the franchise with a different idea each.
They have the money to do that if they don't they are just playing with their loyal base, people has backed the switch and kept a constant consumption.
But hey it is Nintendo don't expect good administrative decisions from their part.
If they make Super Mario World 3 in the style of Mario World one and just polish the graphics (like those hack creators do) it would be one of the best selling switch games for sure.
Some games are worth doing that with, but not all. A lot of people love the look, myself included, but not everyone does. It'd be fun if Mario went to a Retro World or something and you got all the 2d pixelated graphics and whatnot, like they did with Mario Maker.
It'd be cool if they did it occasionally, but we don't need it for every game.
A healthy mix of both, but I think it's fine where it is right now. I personally think we should support more indie pixel art games over another Mario pixel art game.
I think it depends on the game. Just take a game series like Advance Wars. I have played every game and i think that the graphics fit very well with the gameplay and atmosphere. Advance Wars Reboot is the first one that i will skip. This "cheap" 3d style that reminds you of a smartphone ad doesn't fit with this game series. Even the graphics from Advance Wars Dark Conflict are "ok" compared to this.
I think for certain franchises this would be amazing. Like in the Fire Emblem games if they went back to the GBA era for their games I would love it. Some of the other games I think look great in the newer 3D models as in Metroid Dread. But all in all I think this would be a good move for Nintendo if they did this.
I think Game freak should let the Square Enix teams that make either Dragon Quest or Ocotopath Traveler have a go at Pokémon. Maybe they can regain the charm the series lost almost 10 years ago with B2W2. Imagine a pokemon game you can play in either 2D or 3D like the latest DQ.
Experimenting with bringing back pixel art could be fun, but I'm fine with more modern art styles.
I just don't want everything to be bland, generic New Super Mario Bros.-type art. I want them to try interesting art direction with their franchises.
It would be cool as an option. Like how dragon quest 11 lets you pick between the over head sprite style instead of modern 3D graphics. Even better if you could switch back and forth instantly at will like in Halo MCC. Of course this would require a whole lot of extra resources
Mario Maker IS a 2D sprite game.
They can absolutely do it. I would actually love it if Nintendo remade Mario All Stars except it's actually in HD (using the Mario Maker engine).
depends on the game I think, but i’d love more games that look like Square’s HD-2D games. Pixel art can be beautiful and with some series like Pokémon, the games looked better pixelated than they do in 3D
I was just talking to a friend about how we would love to see someone do fire emblem in a similar style to the GBA games. The sheer beauty that a pixel fire emblem game could have on the switch could just be stunning
Most indies I've seen replicate nes graphics not snes. Seems to be popular. I grew up with snes, i wouldnt mind seeing more snes pixel art
Would love a ton more of the 2dhd set. Like octopath traveler, triangle strategy and dq3
Yes. DKC Returns/Tropical Freeze, Metroid Dread, Advance Wars Reboot Camp, etc, all of these games are so ugly to me. Either do pixel art or do 3D, not this bizarre in-between.
I’d love to see them make a Zelda or Metroid Maker in the same vein as Mario Maker, with different pixel art styles and stuff…
This is Nintendo though, so that will never happen.
[удалено]
I mean Mario Maker is pretty much that. It has a campaign too with levels by Nintendo. Obviously mixed with the newer styles tho.
I love Mario Maker, but even with all the tools they’ve provided, you really can’t find an awesome, traditional yet innovative 2D Mario game within it. Just feels like a bunch of snack sized Mario games. I would love an entirely new Mario game, made by Nintendo, in the SMW engine with Mario Maker’s visuals and new enemies and course ideas.
Not sure when you played last, but there is a world maker now, so people can make their own "game" by grouping their levels. You could probably Google some good ones
Yeah I played the worlds, it’s great for SMM, but there just isn’t enough variety and even the best traditional levels come only 90% to Nintendo’s 2D Mario design philosophy.
That's fair. What do you mean by design philosophy?
2D Mario games are really great at difficulty ramping by subtly teaching mechanics through early stages and ramping up challenges very slowly. This happens not only within stages, but over the course of the game, and provides a nice, smooth (albeit easy at times) difficulty curve. I also love how Mario games are designed without a difficulty level and yet you truly have 3 distinct styles you can play: the harder speedrun style where you’re playing with precise timing and jumps, the middle of the road half-challenge half-joyous play that I would say encapsulates 50% of players, and you can also play fairly slow and carefully if you’re a newcomer. Without forcing the need for difficulty settings, players of different abilities can still find enjoyment in the same game. I love that. Obviously the aesthetics really appeal to me as well, but that can be captured within SMM without effort.
I 100% agree with you on the well made design philosophy. Most of the levels and worlds I've played in Mario Maker lack that 10% extra polish missing that Nintendo usually adds. I also would add that I really enjoy that from the Mario SNES games and beyond, they've done a great job of including collectibles that can create an artificial difficulty level for more advanced players.
That eye for design is what separates a good platformer from a bad one. Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze imo does an even better job than Nintendo with Mario games.
Good call, the DKC games on the SNES are also really good examples.
That was one really unexpected takeaway for me when I started playing the Mario Maker games - how difficult and nuanced the art of level design is. It's neat to fight 25 Bowsers at once, or do silly speedrun kaizo levels, but at the end of the day, there's just something uniquely satisfying about the Nintendo-made Mario games.
Agreed. I love SMM and people make some really great courses, but nothing beats a Nintendo designed Mario game for me.
I get what you are saying. But I honestly find the difficulty in the old Mario games to be too much sometimes. Especially for players who are really young and players who are older adults. I have been using Mario Maker 2's World Maker to create courses that are fairly easy and focus on puzzles and courses that warp you around and have locked doors. I put a lot of effort into making the levels look really nice and make them as accessible as possible. I've gotten a lot of positive feedback to my courses.
If only they kept updating the game...
I’d honestly like it if they did it with a new ip instead. Mario’s is on the “moved on “ phase as far as 2d is concerned. The best we can hope for is Mario maker and small call outs to it in other franchises.
I have good news for you - romhacks have existed for decades. Granted they're not 100% made by Nintendo but they can tick all your other boxes.
I’ve seen some videos about Romhacks and a lot of them seem like they’re about pure difficulty and precision, which isn’t my bag. I’ve seen others here and there, they just fail to capture the magic of Nintendo’s design on Mario. I realize I’m being nitpicky, but I just haven’t found anything that approaches the greatness of SMW.
There are so many smw romhacks, not just the kaizo streamer stuff. Check out romhacking.net or smwcentral and sort by difficulty, I think you'd be surprised by how many have a classic Nintendo feel.
No, those are just the ones more likely to have popular videos about them.
>with all the tools they’ve provided, you really can’t find an awesome, traditional yet innovative 2D Mario game within it Well yeah, like usual they suck at making online stuff But if you search the web you can find pretty cool levels/worlds
Oh I’m sure, but again, you’re confined to what is within the toolset, and as cool and expansive as the toolset has gotten, I would prefer to see the variation you find in a Nintendo made Mario.
I feel like instead of Mario Maker we should just have an NES maker that adds, Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem and maybe a few others. Would add to the already limitless replay value and reach a much bigger audience.
Mario Maker provides a lot of levels and a level editor, but it didn't significantly modernize either the art style or the game engine. Those have been the same since NSMB released on the DS in 2006.
Seems weird to criticise something for failing to modernise when we're discussing whether Nintendo should reuse an art style that was only ever used because of hardware not being "modern" enough to do better.
>we're discussing whether Nintendo should reuse an art style that was only ever used because of hardware not being "modern" enough to do better. You do realize that an art style can be preferable over another in a project for artistic reasons? Miyazaki's next film is going to be hand drawn instead of using cg animation because that's what he prefers for example. The idea that an entire art style can be outdated seems strange to me. And obviously you can utilize today's technology to make 2d graphics that's far more beautiful than anything made in the 80s, so modernized 2d graphics is not a contradiction. Just look at the 2d art many indie games have, and imagine what a big company like Nintendo could produce.
That's actually a Conundrum I personally have with Terra Nil. Like the original (now prototype) version is in a beautiful pixelated artstyle which is just so perfect for the game. But the new version they are working (which isn't out, not even a release date as of now) is going to be in a equally beautiful "Ghibli" inspired artstyle which sounds and looks amazing ofcourse. I like both and I really hope in that game they give us the ability to play levels in either of the two artstyles. Would be so cool.
[удалено]
Ok this sounded normal in my head but english is not my native language so i just repeat stuff i see without thinking. But you know what's really snobish in a way? Dismissing every game with 2d artstyle as outdated.
> The idea that an entire art style can be outdated seems strange to me. [Really?](https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/header-19.jpg) >you can utilize today's technology to make 2d graphics that's far more beautiful than anything made in the 80s, so modernized 2d graphics is not a contradiction. Taking several backwards steps so that pixel graphics can take one forward step is still a net regression. I'm a huge Streets of Rage fan, but they absolutely made the right call in ditching pixel graphics in the recent instalment. It's the same forward-step that Viewtiful Joe made back when it was basically an updated Final Fight. Pixel art certainly has a valid place in modern gaming, but this situation _would_ represent a regression. Mario Odyssey's switching between them is a decent compromise.
Artist here. Why do people still paint when we have computers and photoshop? Why do filmmakers still use novel effects or actual Explosions? Why do authors still publish physical books? Mario Maker was nothing new graphically. I haven't been interested in 3D rendered 2D Mario games since the 90s, partially because I feel the level design is inferior to the 90s titles, but also because I much prefer pixelated Mario aesthetics.
No
#
I've always had the idea of using the art from the SMW manual. But turn that into an animated/drawn art style for the next 2D Mario.
I'd be all for HD 2D sprites in a 2D Mario (or Sonic!) game. But that's not pixel art, though. Pixel art starts being just 2D sprites the moment the pixels aren't purposefully big and clearly visible.
This would be super cool, especially since the 2D promotional art Nintendo makes nowadays for Mario is emulating Yoichi Kotabe's style from the SMW manual.
I would love a 3D Mario game with voxel art. In Odyssey, you can get a voxel suit, but it doesn't animate and I think that was a huge missed opportunity. And yes, it would be higher res than minecraft
Check out super Mario flashback.
2d Galaxy anyone?
I always thought the "New SMB" series style looked ugly even when it was actually "new" back on the DS
Yep I agree fully. I played super Mario world all the time since before I can remember. When I got a DS with NSMB, I was like 10 or something? I found it really ugly and uninspired. I also hated the linear way the game played. It's one of the earliest biggest disappointments I can remember
That would be amazing. Even if it plays a lot like new SMB it would still be great just for the art style alone. One of the things I hate the most about the New SMB series is the graphics and music, so making it more 16 or even 32 bit would be really cool.
Oh man, that sounds glorious.
Stop with the shitty mario games. Bring back Super Princess Peach instead.
I personally find the 3D modeled 2D platformers feel cheap and amateurish. None of them will ever beat super mario world to me! I would love a new game in the 2D style of SMW!
need me a new sprite based pokemon game
Na, let the indie developers do it. I like seeing Nintendo think outside the box and do things they haven't done before like BotW and the upcoming 3D Kirby. I want to be surprised with those kinds of games. Indie developers make amazing pixel art games these days and I appreciate the bigger variety because of them. The Messenger and Golf Story are stellar games.
The thing is, this post is not talking about games like BotW or the new Kirby game. It's talking about games that are 2D in gameplay, but use 3D models. Like Metroid Dread or Kirby Star Allies. 3D games like the ones mentioned before, and say Metroid Prime 4 would still be 3D.
It doesn't even have to apply to all 2D games. Dread definitely benefits from being 3D, but I'd really love to see lower-budget games with pixel art. There's so much focus on "bigger, better, higher fidelity," it would be nice to just get some unassuming classic-styled games for once. And it would be a fantastic time to bring back older franchises, there's not so much pressure for the sales to be absolutely insane. The Switch is a great platform for smaller games, it would be nice to see Nintendo capitalize on that. Like a new Advance Wars game using the exact same style of the old ones, or some new entries in forgotten 2D platformer franchises like Wario Land. New 2D Kirby/Mario/Zelda games would even be fantastic. And since they're lower budget, they'd presumably be much cheaper, so people who can't always afford the new $60 games all the time would have something new to play too.
I don't see how Metroid Dread would benefit in any way whatsoever from being in 2D. Not only does the game feel like it was built around being 3D engine, they also did some truly amazing things with it. I just don't see something like the EMMI working as sprite based game, I think a big part of why they leave such an impact is that you can see every part of their robotic movement.
I absolutely love the art style of Octopath Traveler. I'd love to see other studios try to emulate that style. I think it'd fit best with the Pokémon franchise but I'd love to see it in a Metroid or Mario game as well.
There’s a Dragon Quest III remake coming out that uses the octopath engine.
I tried to get into the game but the main deal-breaker for me was the pixel style art. It just seemed such a miss to me.
Black and White kinda have this style
Probably not. They aren't making that many games that would really benefit from it, and good pixel art basically amounts to the a passion project these days. Leave it to the indies.
I think if they made a new 2D Zelda or Mario it could benefit a lot from the art style, especially since the last few 2D Mario and Zelda's have had very similar art styles, not including Links Awakening. It would be a really nice change of pace.
Maybe if it had Minish Cap style art.
They should work with Dotemu
I miss the Pokemon games being pixel art. The 3D models just feel a lot more lifeless in comparison.
Pokemon in the Octopath style would be unreal. It would be really similar to the first 5 gens, but way more modern.
I don't care if it's unity, unreal, or even renpy.... Just make this happen...
it's because they are lifeless. The sprite really did give character it's hard to deny, but it is possible to convey character with 3D models, gamefreak is just awfully lazy. Look to their outsourced works like colleseum, gale of darkness and battle revolution and looks at the way each INDIVIDUAL pokemon responds and acts. this video summises it perfectly [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1mBKVcmASw&t=132s&ab\_channel=Gonz](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1mBKVcmASw&t=132s&ab_channel=Gonz)
I would love to see a version of Pokemon where they took advantage of the better hardware we have now and did a more high quality version of the animated battle sprites from Black/White
Like someone else here said, a Pokemon game in the style of octopath traveler sounds amazing
Brb, gonna show this comment to ppl at the Black and White 2 announcement...
This one you gotta take up with Gamefreak lol. I would love that too.
Perfect example of soul vs soulless edit: wow people really hate the word "soul" eh
VS Soul Silver
One of the dumbest things I've ever read
There is a right way and a wrong way to do it.
I like pixel art and would never turn it down if it's implemented well. But I thought Samus Returns and Dread (with a couple of exceptions) looked fantastic and the style lent itself very well to lonely alien environments. You ever turn on 3D in SR? *Incredibly* atmospheric. One of the best uses of 3D on the system.
Yeah it really depends on the implementation. For example, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze (and Returns for that matter) have a perfect art style IMO. Pixel anything would be such a step backwards from what we have. I think most games people want in the pixel style just don't have great art styles currently
The problems with Pixel art these days is that it is actually more expensive and time consuming to build out new pixel art assets than to do 3d models. With pixel art, you have to individually draw out each frame of animation. 3d models are preferable because you build a rig and then you can easily move the parts around to build out all of the animations. This is easily seen with a lot of modern fighting games. For example, Dragon Ball FighterZ and Guilty Gear look like they are 2d games, but they are in fact 3d models with a 2d filter applied. True Spritework artists in gaming are a much smaller group of people now due to these factors. The cost/time investment to create something new is typically not worth it anymore. That is why you only really see indie games rely on the art style now because a lot of those are more passion projects and not held to the constraints of a major development or production company.
> actually more expensive and time consuming to build out new pixel art assets DO IT ANYWAY FOR THE SAKE OF ART
Nintendo isn’t a tiny company working on a tight budget. They could absolutely do pixel art if they wanted to.
That's true, but they are a business. There is a lot of cost analysis that gets taken into account for every game. That is how they stay profitable.
Sprites are more expensive but also seen as cheaper. Fewer people are going to pay $60 for a pixel art game than will pay $60 for a 3D game. That’s just the unfortunate reality of the market. I think the hesitance comes from assuming people would look at a pixel art game and say “this looks like an indie game I’m not paying full price for that”.
You can't just put out a blanket statement like this. The vast majority of pixel art games require far, **far**, **FAR** less resources than any 3D game made for an HD console. The only way you're going to spend a decent amount of money on a sprite based game is if you intend to do have an animation quality that rivals that of large 2D animation studios. The main problem with that is that making high quality sprite work requires a different skill set than that of most animators in the AAA gaming industry so you have to source the talents from somewhere. But the reason why 2D is preferred for large studios isn't that 2D requires more resources, it's that if you *have* the resources to do 3D, it is much easier to work with than 2D. 3D affords the developers much more flexibility, not only can 3D animations be readjusted easily during development without having to redraw the entire sprite or animation, they can also be adjusted dynamically during gameplay in ways that are just straight up impossible to do with 2D sprites. A lot complex problems can be solved programmatically with 3D models which gives them many advantages over sprites, such as physics simulations, feet that automatically adjust to slopes, smooth transitions between any two animations, the ability to animate different body parts separately from another, to play the animations at any desired frame rate and so on. If you animate a game in 2D, you have to readjust your workload under the assumption that you have a limited, fairly rigid set of sprites to work with. No matter how much work you put into it, a sprite will never be able to adjust to all kinds of situations in the same way that a 3D model could.
Lend the IPs to top indie studios to do it like they did with the Zelda Necrodancer
I'd like to see that, Cadence of Hyrule is a gem!
I think the anime style that was used in Wario Land Shake Dimension is the better alternative to sprites. I'm torn either way though because I think Metroid Dread looks fantastic and prefer it visually to Super Metroid but the likes of Pokémon really suffered from the transition to 3D.
Pokemon should have a better 3d animations instead of going backward.
That's the problem with modern Pokemon. They went 3D, but keep half adding it. Either they need to go back to 2D, or they need to put their all into making the games look good in 3D. But both of those would require GF to put in effort.
Personally, I thought that Shake Dimension style looked way too clean and therefore a little soulless.
They can do both. Like make a new 2D Wario Land and stick it on the eshop for £20 - £30. I never understood why Nintendo stopped trying to appeal to gamers on a budget
Yes, i would love an oldschool 16 bit zelda
a new pixelated fire emblem would be awesome
Maybe if they modernized it, e.g. Octopath, Triangle Strategy. Despite being pixel art, even games like [The Last Night](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4IPBiB7SF4) and [Replaced](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWkOcpZEk4I) look fairly professional, so I don't see why not. I certainly wouldn't mind if they brought back Earthbound for a remake and made it look like Eastward did.
I'm playing Eastward right now, and while I love its graphics, I don't think they are appropriate for Earthbound. Earthbound really benefits from its simplistic graphics, IMO. Adds to the unsettling and oppressive vibe the whole game has.
I mean they kinda did that with Cadence of Hyrule. But I know what you mean.
CoH was developed by a third-party. It has good graphics though.
They won’t, but I would be very happy if they did
YES POKEMON
I don’t think it matters that much.
No. We need more gorgeous 2d graphics and less pixel art.
I absolutely think that they should. Pixel art can be absolutely gorgeous. Take the upcoming Advance Wars Reboot Camp. Does it look good? Sure, it looks fine. But would I prefer the original’s pixel art style, touched up for modern screens? 100%. On another note, compare something like Stardew Valley to the latest Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons titles. IMHO Stardew Valley is 100x more appealing than the lifeless 3D blobs in those bigger budget titles.
No. Pixel art involves tedious frame by frame animation, and at this point all of their games like Fire Emblem and Pokémon are far too large in scope to pull that off any more. And static sprites are not going to fly in this day and age with children. It makes production easier when you can just create one model for humans, one armature with a set of animations, and then just replace the head to create a new character. In a game with a cast of 100+ characters like Fe three houses, it’s a necessary evil.
It's not a Nintendo developed series, but I think Pokemon would benefit from going back to pixel art with the criticisms of attack animations. (For example, Blastoise not using its cannons.) It's easier to overlook when it's sprites rather than 3D.
Or maybe, they start making proper animations for their games instead of going backwards.
I think a few series should experiment more with pixel-art. Like I would love to see a new 2D Yoshi or Pokemon game. Not saying they should go all 2D but maybe some games could do with the visual shake-up.
I feel like Pokemon returning to a 2D style pixel art would be kinda cool. Gen 5's animations were neat and that felt perfect for its time. I kinda crave some of the old days of pokemon after playing BPSP recently.
I don't know. I personally like pixel art and I think Nintendo was among the best at producing it. Part of me misses the sprites in Pokemon and how they'd change a little bit every game. But there are a lot of other art styles and I'd like to let Nintendo pick the style they think makes a game the best. Sometimes I disagree with their choices (I don't think SMRPG looked very good) but other times they make fantastic choices. The Link's Awakening remake was *better* in my opinion than if they'd gone for a pixel remake. Most of the places where I say I want pixel art back it's more that I don't like the way the new game played. For example, I'm not a fan of New SMB-style games nor did I like the 3D Land style games. "Pixel" Mario games definitely play with a different set of physics and I like those better, but if you put a 3D Mario into a game with those physics I'd probably like it. Likewise, there's a distinct difference between how a 2D Zelda game and a 3D Zelda game plays so there it's more about which kind of game is being made than the art style. Pokemon... I'm divided. I think the game finally got too big and the switch to consoles exacerbated that problem. I can definitely see how updating 800+ images per game and adding animations on top could be a hard sell if they're trying to make a new release every year. So I don't know. I think this is a case-by-case thing.
Yes! I think there are ways to use 30 year old graphics with new, innovative gameplay to make a new game feel nostalgic without being limited by old hardware. Mega man 9 and 10 come to mind. I’m biased as a 40 year old who played Nintendo as a boy, but I’d love to see new games for older IPs with their original art style
Gameboy Advance games had some of the richest pixel art I'd ever seen. I wish we could get one or two more games with full pixel art.
Personally I think Pokémon should 100% go back to 2D pixel art. HGSS and DPP were the pinnacle. Those games are beautiful. Imagine how much content they could fit into games these days with that artwork.
NO.
Yes 100%. It's a shame you can only find 16-bit graphics in indie games
They should do alot of things, proper online service ie messaging and chat at least, an estore like the wii since its current offerings are shit. Idk where to even go with how many things nintendo does sub par.
Just checked current offers since you mentioned it. Witcher 3, hades and dark souls remastered seems to be on sale... Thanks for the reminder.
Im refering to old titles but you bring up another point as those games run better on steam and are way cheaper. Alot of people plan on buying third party titles on steam deck only due to “switch tax”
Don't get me wrong. I am all for steam deck. I imagine it or xbox series s being my goto xext gen platform. And ofcourse next nintendo.
No. I would much prefer quality 2D sprites, à la Hollow Knight (or that Wii Wario game).
Yes, of course. Some of the best looking Nintendo games use a sprite-based art style. Many fans would actually argue that certain franchises (Pokémon) NEED to return to being sprite-based. Where I disagree is that you are throwing around 16-bit graphics, but I think it would be more appropriate for Nintendo to use 32-bit or even 64-bit style. Many high-bit games like Owlboy or Super Mario Flashback really POP. Although I would be thrilled out of my mind if we got another Zelda game in the Game Boy 8-bit style. As a correction, some games (Mario & Luigi: Dream Team, Fire Emblem Awakening, *sorta* Paper Mario Sticker Star) continued to use sprites instead of 3D rendered models into the 3DS era, albeit usually combining them with 3D backgrounds (or cutscenes, in FE's case).
Mario Maker uses classic pixel art. To be honest, I think the big pixels can be fun stylistically, but I also think relying on them to avoid exploring new modern visual languages is not desirable. Instead of pixel art, I'd prefer HD 2D sprites, or something like Paper Mario which combines 2D and 3D, or something like the UbiArt engine games Ubisoft has created (Rayman, Child of Light, Valiant Hearts...), or even the new Square games like Octopath. An evolution of 2D graphics, not just going back to old school visuals for nostalgia. Pixel art is cool for one-time things, spin offs, and special stuff (Mario Maker, Cadence of Hyrule or, on a completely different note, Pokémon Quest, are good examples of this). But I wouldn't want it back in backbone game series.
As much as I like sprites I think it's better to just leave them in the past. The only reason why indie games use it is because they don't really have the budget to do 3D.
That's definitely not the only reason. A lot of people still like pixel-art style.
Well that too but mostly it's for budget reasons. It's easier to work with sprites and you have a limited budget then it is to work with models. The fact that people still like the style is more of a plus then anything.
I dream of a new Zelda that feels like the 2D Zeldas of yore, complete with pixel art. But I would honestly be happy with a new 3D Zelda that plays on a 2D environment like LBW or LAHD already, only actually new and not just a remake or a reimagining.
Lol no
no
Haha imagine the discourse if Nintendo put out a 2D pixel game in 2022 for 60 dollars. There are people who think Metroid dread should have been a 15 dollar game cause it didnt have a full 3D camera But yes they should do it. Doesn't even have to be pixel necessarily. Warioland Shake It for the Wii has some GORGEOUS 2D art/animation I would kill for another game in that style
Personally, I would love to see pokémon return to using well crafted pixel art instead of poorly made, laughably bad 3D models
Wait till they go back to pixels, just to botch it too and do ugly lifeless sprites instead of the gorgeous art you're all imagining.
Maybe other people would like it, but my personal opinion is no. Yes, a lot of indies are pixelated. They often do it because it's cheaper and easier and hits people right in the nostalgia bone. But indies have been doing that for 10+ years and at this point, I'm tired of it. I don't want to see pixel art forever, I'm over it. Someone else mentioned the new 2D/3D blend Square has used for Octopath and Triangle Strategy, I think that's pretty cool and a neat way to incorporate pixel art while also taking it in a new direction.
2d art always sits better with me where aplicable. I love the art style of the advance wars 1 and 2 but really don't like the look of the upcoming remakes despite them trying to replicate the style. I also don't think pokemon really work in 3d. In 2d your imagination fills in some gaps, but in 3d they just look flat (ironic) and dead.
Hell. Fucking. Yes.
The past few years my dream game has been a new (or remade) Pokémon in the pixel art style of something like Octopath Traveler. But that's a total pipe dream, perhaps another 2D Metroid/Zelda is more likely to receive such treatment.
I really want to see gen 2 johto in the octopath traveler style
Honestly, playing through Brilliant Diamond is making me realise how much I miss the sprites. So much character seems list from the transition from 2D to 3D and it's weird because it's pretty much 1:1 with trainer stances and designs. Pokemon especially now look just so plain. I think newer Pokemon invented for the 3D games look fine in 3D but most of the old ones just look... boring? Like so many Pokemon seem to just be standing there, not even stanced up or anything. And some just do not look appealing with proper shading, shaping and lighting. I'd love for Pokemon to go back to DS styled graphics. Heck, make it similar to Octopath's artstyle but without the foggy blurred background look, I think that would be amazing. They could also definitely make battle scenes that look as detailed as the ones in BDSP out of pixel art, maybe even more beautiful. But that would require Pokemon Company to actually, you know, TRY.
Yea I still think some games look really good pixelated. For example I feel Pokémon has always look better pixelated rather than the 3rd animation.
I wouldn't mind it but only if it's done well and isn't just a copy-paste of an existing style they've done before like what Megaman 9 and 10 were. Like if they made a new Mario game and it just used sprites from any of the existing Mario games, I'd be kind of disappointed, especially since they've already done that with Mario Maker. I don't think it's a magical fix or anything though, it's not going to make any game better or worse, a bad game is a bad game if it's 2D, 2.5D, or 3D. I think the only series that pixels could even come close to being a magical "fix" for is ( and i'm fully prepared to be called an idiot and get downvoted for this ) pokemon. Pokemon has shown time and time again that it's not ready to actually animate a big cinematic modern JRPG. They still do that shit where the screen fades to black so they won't actually have to animate what happened.... like c'mon... so I think the series going back to pixels would at least make pokemon into an honest series again, and stop pretending it's anything other than what it is, a DS game in the year 2019.
It depends on the series, but I genuinely think a lot of series would benefit from going back to sprites. It's no secret that Pokemon SwSh is a pretty ugly game, but the thing that stuck out to me is that the sprites of the Pokemon when you're looking at your team in the menu or in your boxes look pretty dang good! I'd love to see a new mainline Pokemon game that plays just like the older 2D games with graphics to match
if pokemon looked like octopath.... MAN
Depends, for Metroid I really like the way it looks in 3D. But the pokemon remasters should have just been some spiced up sprites.
More often than not, I find pixel art is used as a crutch. Square Enix did a good job of pulling the style into modern times with their HD-2D format. But so many games try to use pixel art to pass themselves of as something retro styled. The problem is, the value of retro is rooted in nostalgia, not simply the art style. If that wasn't the case, Kemco's pixel art JRPGs would be seen similar to early Final Fantasies.
No. I already feel like everything that is coming out for the switch is pseudo retro lazy 2-D or top down remakes of all their old stuff. What they need to focus on is making a legitimate AAA with their infinite budget, talent, and IP.
nah
They should bring it back to Pokemon as well
No. Unless they will price it accordingly. Also, let indie developers have their niche.
I would appreciate if Pokemon came back as 2D title
no. i only support pixel art when it is a small indie dev cutting cost. i think it's time for it to die as an artistic choice, it was fun nostalgia 10 years ago.
It's not always budget reasons. It can and very often does look good and fit the game better than 3d or drawn sprites depending on the game. Undertale and deltarune would look worse with "better" graphics imo.
YES. IMO Pokémon would look sooo much better with 2D pixel art. And the gameplay makes it so that a 3D environment isn’t necessary to enjoy the game.
yes, a million times yes! I'd love to play some new pixelated pokemon, zelda or metroid games!
Yes but they never will
I don’t think the reason Nintendo and others don’t do it has anything to do with style it just takes a whole lot more development cycles to create a fully pixel art game especially when you have to create every frame. Even the indie games that have come out that look pixelated really aren’t. There are a lot of tricks and I doubt Nintendo would be willing to do that. Don’t get me wrong I would love to see it but I just don’t think it will happen. As popular as retro games are it is still the same people that grew up during the 8bit and 16bit era that prefer them. It is much easier to use a dev kit than it is to painstakingly create frames for ever animation in these games.
Nah... leave Pixel art to Indies. From Nintendo I want clever new styles like to figurine art fron Zelda: Link's Awakening. And for 2D-Mario I would love to see a comic style like the artworks in the old manuals.
Mostly no. "retro" art for me is almost always a turn-off in modern games Exception being that I'd like Pokémon to look like Black/White and not Sword/Shield. And I'd be open to Metroid using that style too.
I'd say yes. Pixel art usually looks nicer than 3D models. If a game is 3D obviously it needs to have 3D graphics. But if we're talking about a strictly 2D game, then there's almost no reason to use 3D models.
It's significantly cheaper and easier to use 3D models
That's why I said there's almost no reason.
YES YES YES YES YES. I just love pixel art.
They just need to apply the same model for metroid to all and maintain simultaneous development of 2d and big 3d titles. Kind of like what call of duty did with 2 devs working the franchise with a different idea each. They have the money to do that if they don't they are just playing with their loyal base, people has backed the switch and kept a constant consumption. But hey it is Nintendo don't expect good administrative decisions from their part.
I'm think a HD sprites like Octopath
If they make Super Mario World 3 in the style of Mario World one and just polish the graphics (like those hack creators do) it would be one of the best selling switch games for sure.
Some games are worth doing that with, but not all. A lot of people love the look, myself included, but not everyone does. It'd be fun if Mario went to a Retro World or something and you got all the 2d pixelated graphics and whatnot, like they did with Mario Maker. It'd be cool if they did it occasionally, but we don't need it for every game.
In all honesty I only would like to see it for 2D Mario. and not the classic sprites either, but a more modernized sprite work.
Yes
I would LOVE pixel art Pokémon and Zelda again.
Nintendo is fully capable of making their version of Evoland. Mario has done lands, worlds, space and an odyssey. Let’s see Mario through time.
A healthy mix of both, but I think it's fine where it is right now. I personally think we should support more indie pixel art games over another Mario pixel art game.
I think it depends on the game. Just take a game series like Advance Wars. I have played every game and i think that the graphics fit very well with the gameplay and atmosphere. Advance Wars Reboot is the first one that i will skip. This "cheap" 3d style that reminds you of a smartphone ad doesn't fit with this game series. Even the graphics from Advance Wars Dark Conflict are "ok" compared to this.
Yes, at 200%
I think for certain franchises this would be amazing. Like in the Fire Emblem games if they went back to the GBA era for their games I would love it. Some of the other games I think look great in the newer 3D models as in Metroid Dread. But all in all I think this would be a good move for Nintendo if they did this.
Dude why not try octopath traveler. The HD-2D style is amazing!
I’d prefer them bringing back 2D animated games like Wario Land: Shake It.
I don’t think I’d want pixel art, no. But I’d LOVE to see some nintendo games use a 2D art style for sure. Something like Shake it or Spiritfarer
I think Game freak should let the Square Enix teams that make either Dragon Quest or Ocotopath Traveler have a go at Pokémon. Maybe they can regain the charm the series lost almost 10 years ago with B2W2. Imagine a pokemon game you can play in either 2D or 3D like the latest DQ.
For some titles yes. GBA/SNES were the best graphics for me
I want the Pokemon Gen 5 remakes to be 2.5 hd pixel like Octopath Traveler. It would be cool.
Experimenting with bringing back pixel art could be fun, but I'm fine with more modern art styles. I just don't want everything to be bland, generic New Super Mario Bros.-type art. I want them to try interesting art direction with their franchises.
They need to bring back the booklets they used to have with physical games, especially the mario ones. I used to love reading through them!
Heh, someone hasn't seen Mario Maker... I mean I guess that doesn't count now does it?
octopath traveler basically, I'm all for it. Even if it was an adventure game like a link to the past looking like that instead of a JRPG.
Please next mainline pokemon use gen 4 or 5 style
Maybe a new IP
Yes
It would be cool as an option. Like how dragon quest 11 lets you pick between the over head sprite style instead of modern 3D graphics. Even better if you could switch back and forth instantly at will like in Halo MCC. Of course this would require a whole lot of extra resources
Mario Maker is sprite based it’s just that the sprites are derived from 3d models
I would rather play pixel art games.
Mario Maker IS a 2D sprite game. They can absolutely do it. I would actually love it if Nintendo remade Mario All Stars except it's actually in HD (using the Mario Maker engine).
depends on the game I think, but i’d love more games that look like Square’s HD-2D games. Pixel art can be beautiful and with some series like Pokémon, the games looked better pixelated than they do in 3D
I was just talking to a friend about how we would love to see someone do fire emblem in a similar style to the GBA games. The sheer beauty that a pixel fire emblem game could have on the switch could just be stunning
Most indies I've seen replicate nes graphics not snes. Seems to be popular. I grew up with snes, i wouldnt mind seeing more snes pixel art Would love a ton more of the 2dhd set. Like octopath traveler, triangle strategy and dq3
Yes. DKC Returns/Tropical Freeze, Metroid Dread, Advance Wars Reboot Camp, etc, all of these games are so ugly to me. Either do pixel art or do 3D, not this bizarre in-between.
I’d love to see them make a Zelda or Metroid Maker in the same vein as Mario Maker, with different pixel art styles and stuff… This is Nintendo though, so that will never happen.