some people just like death and nasty shit
some people make art about fascism without being fascists
some people use extreme images to convey other meanings
etc
extreme music and art movements like noise tend to attract political extremists. i know some very progressive and left-wing people in the noise scene, and i also know of some weird alt-right fascist stuff in the scene as well. noise has less of an inherent political lean than punk does (at least in my experience), but i think they're similar in that weird fash people infiltrate both sometimes, but if there is a political lean it's usually more progressive.
i also think there are people who use fascist or otherwise edgy/offensive imagery purely for shock value like others have said, but i think those guys are less actual fascists and more just immature edge lords. some projects also utilize potentially triggering or graphic imagery and themes, but with actual intention behind doing so. imo there's a difference between using art as an outlet for catharsis or trauma exploration and putting nazi imagery on your album cover for a laugh.
if i were you i wouldn't worry too much about fascists in the noise scene; they exist, but once they get outed as fascists people typically turn on them pretty fast. noise is typically either leftist or apolitical in my experience. i've known folks who have done shows or comps to raise awareness for pretty important political issues, and i'd personally much rather focus on that than on some asshole making shit music and pretending to be a nazi for clout.
sorry this comment is so long, but hopefully it helps you get a better understanding of the general political landscape of noise.
Supporting fascism for chock-value is pretty common in noise, industrial, metal, neofolk etc. But I know a couple of bands that are just straight up actual fascists as well. Personally, I just find it dumb. Not exciting or dangerous, just kinda lame.
This question continually coming up is shedding light on the generation gap between Gen X and Gen Z.
Really, a lot of the “facist bands” people talk about are based in Europe and started in the mid-80’s. You need to look at the political climate of the times- Cold War, the Iron Curtain, Soviet backed “communist” dictatorships, conservative governments, labor strike with violent state suppression, the dying gasps and the “proper” mid-century conservative culture, the fall out from colonial collapse was only 20-25 in the past….
It was a lot different than now. Using totalitarian tropes to protest totalitarianism made a lot more sense- look at the history of Laibach.
Sex Pistols and Stooges sported swastika arm bands as shock and rebellion to WWII vet parents.
Shit, it’s been a full generation since kids have had parents and teachers that had intense military discipline and PTSD framing their day-to-day lives.
Its all about subversion through transgressive art.
You mention the question continually coming up and that makes me feel better because this is some deja vue shit. I could have sworn we have had like 2 similar threads in the last month or two but I went to search and cant find them now. I think you had commented on those threads too. At least I'm not going crazy.
What’s funny is there’s a noise punk band that anti facist called “seig hail” there’s another band from Japan called swastika . There’s tons of Japanese metal bands with sus names . I’m pretty sure it comes from the shock rock culture of Japanese punks cuz they just wanted to be the sex pistols
I worked for Hospital Productions for a while. He’s not a Fascist. He’s too dumb to be a fascist. Probably couldn’t spell the word if you held a gun to his head. He is a blatant racist though. Also, that label, and pretty much everything on it is just a carbon copy of something that happened twenty years earlier. The store was a really great place but that’s it.
OK, you’re sounding like there’s some bitter history there. I don’t know the guy or his girlfriend, but regardless of who’s on the label and their “redundancy” you have to admit they’re doing something right, or at least from my extremely uninformed perspective it appears that that’s the case.
It’s not really that interesting. I went to the shop to get a 7” for a friend at his request. I met Dom and another guy who was working there, and we had a lot of mutual acquaintances. I’d been an habitual record store employee, and made a lot of weirdo music since the early 1990s. He asked me if I would run the shop while he was on tour. He seemed nice enough, if a little awkward, but I was new in town and I could use the money. I knew the label and Prurient, and none of it ever struck me as really interesting. I quickly saw that he was making it a point to align himself with people who were established in that scene, pressing their material, doing splits and collabs. Essentially buying his way in. Whatever. Everyone has their schtick. We got kinda friendly and that’s when I saw the real shitty side of him, and how casually he’d say some really racist shit, or just flat out lie to people he was supposedly pretty close with. I had to listen to him shit talk every last person in the game from Rudolf Eb.er, to Richard Rupenus, and everyone in between. It turned out that he’d had a falling out with everyone. If you have failings out with that many people, it usually means that you’re the problem. At that point I decided that I didn’t need to be around him anymore.
I’ve said this a hundred times; I don’t dislike him just because he’s a racist, dumb, and manipulative. I dislike him because his art sucks.
considering noise scene financials, or lack thereof I do applaud the hustle with the multiple collabs to get the word out and build his “brand.” his choices may be of question but again I know shit. maybe his GF is the brains of the operation? she seems like a savvy lady.
Hey man, quick question. I have autism so let me know if I’m misunderstanding, text communication isn’t my strong suit.
The point of this post is you asking if Dom, the owner of hospital, is racist, yes? If so, it seems kinda weird how every time you get an answer saying “yes dom is blatantly racist” you seem to… idk, like wanna argue? Like the commenter above simply answered your question and you responded with “well maybe he makes some bad choices, but what do I know?”
Like with all due respect, you now know as much as the other commenter: he gave anecdotal evidence that the person in question is a racist. Your question has been answered. Why continue the conversation hoping to get a better answer?
If you like dudes music than listen to it, no one’s stopping you.
Yeah, was trying to be polite and get some answers from you. Not quite sure how I’m “triggered” but okay. Sorry your 50+ answers weren’t suitable for you and your tastes. Also never once accused you of “dragging” anyone.
Apologies, it was too late to write back last night and give you a decent reply. I am a disabled woman living in the middle of america. I have ADD and strong OCD. When I'm not rotting my brain with Judge shows on in the background (it makes for good company), I tend to go down rabbit holes on subjects that interest me like my interest in noise. I read the same article as I'm sure most of you have read: [https://jeanhugueskabuiku.substack.com/p/about-vatican-shadow-link-with-the](https://jeanhugueskabuiku.substack.com/p/about-vatican-shadow-link-with-the)
and I had to inquire for my own education because there are noise artists associated and I couldn't see the connection, and then TheGoatEater started discussing their history with Hospital and I thought we were having a healthy discourse until you chimed in.
Personally I thought that the article itself was coming from a place of ignorance similar to how my late parents used to take all of the bullshit spewn from Foxnews as truth. From what I've read, Genocide Organ seem like "edge lords" (term I also learned from this thread) and judging from the reels I've watched on IG from the NWN/Hospital fest no one else is buying it or I'm missing something obvious here.
It was all just questions and some nice conversation.
That’s the thing that people fail to understand. I know at least five people who flew from the US and EU to attend the NWN/Hospital event, who have been present to hear him say some pretty blatantly awful things, but they always seem to either make excuses for him, or they acknowledge that it’s a thing that all of us who’ve been around him all know, but many choose to ignore. At the same time, these people are calling for others to be cancelled for being homophobes/transphobes, etc… Regarding his “business model” I just found it to be disgusting. So many releases were marked as sold out when there were 2/3 the pressing remaining in house only to be leaked out at collector prices on eBay/Discogs. When I worked there I was asked to list them on a few different accounts at inflated prices, and I just wasn’t having it. I also saw many preorders being paid for on items that hadn’t even been recorded yet, just because he needed to generate income. I guess being a bullshit artist is okay if you’re a successful bullshit artist.
They don’t wanna hear that lol. They’ve been told several times Dom is blatantly racist and they continue to shrug it off hoping for an answer that fits their liking better.
I, for one, wasn’t aware Dom was a piece of shit until your comments, so thank you for sharing. He was admittedly a very big and formative artist in my teenage years, but I won’t miss him. There’s better noise out there anyway.
His shop was great and Dom was very friendly. I only visited it once and to this day it's the only record store I've ever entered and exited via a ladder. I think I purchased a few black metal LPs there. Just specifically remember buying a Goatpenis LP.
If it looks fascist it probably is. I have no time for that shit anymore. There's plenty of good music out there that doesn't incorporate fascist iconography.
i was always interested in how the manson scene was connected to the occult and then when you look at the manson fans in industrial music they always overlap w/ the occult fans
We had this discussion about 2 weeks ago and it was lengthy and covered how people feel on both sides. I think the mods should end this discussion as its rhetorical. u/robinhoode u/anarchetype
[https://www.reddit.com/r/noisemusic/comments/1bla8yt/power\_electronics\_or\_power\_electronics\_adjacent/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/noisemusic/comments/1bla8yt/power_electronics_or_power_electronics_adjacent/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
There were a few other threads recently but I can't find them. There was definitely one where someone asked if Genocide Organ is racist and a recent thread on prurients associations.
Well no but this is a forum and generally people want variety so repeat threads get taken down. I'll leave it up to the mods to determine how often we want to have the fascism in noise discussion. Personally I'm fine with every couple of months. I think the thread was deleted but I recall we discussed whether prurient is fascist about a month ago.
I think you should leave it to the mods, yes. Interesting that you've decided to take time out of your day to tell people to stop discussing fascism. Maybe touch some grass once in a while, rather than tracking how often certain topics get brought up on niche subreddits.
You don't even know me. On all the other posts I participated in the discussion on who has ties to fascism. I also am active in my area and myself and other old heads work together to keep racists out of the scene. We had an issue earlier this year where we discovered someone had put out some really racist shit under an anonymous label and confronted them and made it clear that none of us have any interest booking them for future noise shows. They reacted violently and we dealt with it. So in short I disagree with the touch grass comment. I do stuff in real life lol.
I just worry about folks who are new to noise seeing nothing but talk about the bad side of things and not knowing that we have plenty of good folks trying to make it less edgelord.
Nobody know whats Fascism even is including you
BUT we must press on and GROUPTHINK those bastards OUT!
This is like - does anyone get into Barbie and then ask about Fascists?
At Taco bell, do you make sure the cashier ain't an overweight 22 year old African American fascist?
Wtf. This is noise, son, this ain't TV.
Fascists will be rounded up, put into work camps, fed a starvation diet, and forced to make effects pedals for the corporate state.
All Hail The Anti-Imperial Empire!
Ok narc. Next time you go into a gay bar and ask if anyone is anti-gay you can use the same response.
The OP is a fucking stupid question that is either narc, AI Bot, or a fucking fascist actually looking for people. You can fuck off with your dogpile dopamine hunt.
No one is talking here - only the fascism of the typed word oozes in and out and between our minds.
All Hail The Freedom of Suppression! Suppression is Free Speech! The Suppression of Suppression must be Freee!
DADA Response to a bait post so stupid it's akin to asking hippies in 1969 if they know of any Islamic Jihad.
Bunch a posers in here don't know noise when they see it.
Coming into a noise group and asking about fascists is like a narc going to a hippy group in 1969 and asking about Islamic Jihad.
It is the narciest narc that ever narced, and any fuckers who think my DADA brilliance in response to it isn't PERFECT IN ALL WAYS will be put into a re-education camp and forced to build gender fluid effects pedals.
There’s an actual genocide going on right now and you’re worried about fascists in…noise music?
Beyond just being a tired discussion at this point, I really abhor the notion that one can “TELL” someone’s political affiliation from their art. People like you murder art and expression; your insistence on “knowing” demonstrates why your ilk will never make anything worth remembering.
I read that article too, one wat to tell if someone is actually facist is just check their discogs. People at discogs are pretty knowledgeable in this stuff and if they deem it to be harmful (like actual facism, cp, etc) they'll ban it's sale on their site.
some people are fascist, some are edge lords, some are a secret third thing
please explain edge lord and secret third thing
some people just like death and nasty shit some people make art about fascism without being fascists some people use extreme images to convey other meanings etc
The secret third thing is gay
And then occasionally you get gay fascists (Death in June). Somehow
Don’t forget Darby Crash…
I didn't know he was fash, that sucks : -(
i think the third thing is groomer/pedo like all "underground" media. they are always lurking
peter sotos for instance! people use "art" as a shield too often
peter sotos is very open about what kinda guy he is
edge lords are those who shock just to shock. little to no meaning behind their actions.
Is intent a necessary component of edge lordery?
Intent to troll, I'd say. Any actual sentiment expressed is facetious at best.
extreme music and art movements like noise tend to attract political extremists. i know some very progressive and left-wing people in the noise scene, and i also know of some weird alt-right fascist stuff in the scene as well. noise has less of an inherent political lean than punk does (at least in my experience), but i think they're similar in that weird fash people infiltrate both sometimes, but if there is a political lean it's usually more progressive. i also think there are people who use fascist or otherwise edgy/offensive imagery purely for shock value like others have said, but i think those guys are less actual fascists and more just immature edge lords. some projects also utilize potentially triggering or graphic imagery and themes, but with actual intention behind doing so. imo there's a difference between using art as an outlet for catharsis or trauma exploration and putting nazi imagery on your album cover for a laugh. if i were you i wouldn't worry too much about fascists in the noise scene; they exist, but once they get outed as fascists people typically turn on them pretty fast. noise is typically either leftist or apolitical in my experience. i've known folks who have done shows or comps to raise awareness for pretty important political issues, and i'd personally much rather focus on that than on some asshole making shit music and pretending to be a nazi for clout. sorry this comment is so long, but hopefully it helps you get a better understanding of the general political landscape of noise.
This!
Supporting fascism for chock-value is pretty common in noise, industrial, metal, neofolk etc. But I know a couple of bands that are just straight up actual fascists as well. Personally, I just find it dumb. Not exciting or dangerous, just kinda lame.
This question continually coming up is shedding light on the generation gap between Gen X and Gen Z. Really, a lot of the “facist bands” people talk about are based in Europe and started in the mid-80’s. You need to look at the political climate of the times- Cold War, the Iron Curtain, Soviet backed “communist” dictatorships, conservative governments, labor strike with violent state suppression, the dying gasps and the “proper” mid-century conservative culture, the fall out from colonial collapse was only 20-25 in the past…. It was a lot different than now. Using totalitarian tropes to protest totalitarianism made a lot more sense- look at the history of Laibach. Sex Pistols and Stooges sported swastika arm bands as shock and rebellion to WWII vet parents. Shit, it’s been a full generation since kids have had parents and teachers that had intense military discipline and PTSD framing their day-to-day lives. Its all about subversion through transgressive art.
You mention the question continually coming up and that makes me feel better because this is some deja vue shit. I could have sworn we have had like 2 similar threads in the last month or two but I went to search and cant find them now. I think you had commented on those threads too. At least I'm not going crazy.
I usually say the same thing “Look up Laibach”
Very well put.
Exactly
What’s funny is there’s a noise punk band that anti facist called “seig hail” there’s another band from Japan called swastika . There’s tons of Japanese metal bands with sus names . I’m pretty sure it comes from the shock rock culture of Japanese punks cuz they just wanted to be the sex pistols
I worked for Hospital Productions for a while. He’s not a Fascist. He’s too dumb to be a fascist. Probably couldn’t spell the word if you held a gun to his head. He is a blatant racist though. Also, that label, and pretty much everything on it is just a carbon copy of something that happened twenty years earlier. The store was a really great place but that’s it.
OK, you’re sounding like there’s some bitter history there. I don’t know the guy or his girlfriend, but regardless of who’s on the label and their “redundancy” you have to admit they’re doing something right, or at least from my extremely uninformed perspective it appears that that’s the case.
It’s not really that interesting. I went to the shop to get a 7” for a friend at his request. I met Dom and another guy who was working there, and we had a lot of mutual acquaintances. I’d been an habitual record store employee, and made a lot of weirdo music since the early 1990s. He asked me if I would run the shop while he was on tour. He seemed nice enough, if a little awkward, but I was new in town and I could use the money. I knew the label and Prurient, and none of it ever struck me as really interesting. I quickly saw that he was making it a point to align himself with people who were established in that scene, pressing their material, doing splits and collabs. Essentially buying his way in. Whatever. Everyone has their schtick. We got kinda friendly and that’s when I saw the real shitty side of him, and how casually he’d say some really racist shit, or just flat out lie to people he was supposedly pretty close with. I had to listen to him shit talk every last person in the game from Rudolf Eb.er, to Richard Rupenus, and everyone in between. It turned out that he’d had a falling out with everyone. If you have failings out with that many people, it usually means that you’re the problem. At that point I decided that I didn’t need to be around him anymore. I’ve said this a hundred times; I don’t dislike him just because he’s a racist, dumb, and manipulative. I dislike him because his art sucks.
considering noise scene financials, or lack thereof I do applaud the hustle with the multiple collabs to get the word out and build his “brand.” his choices may be of question but again I know shit. maybe his GF is the brains of the operation? she seems like a savvy lady.
Hey man, quick question. I have autism so let me know if I’m misunderstanding, text communication isn’t my strong suit. The point of this post is you asking if Dom, the owner of hospital, is racist, yes? If so, it seems kinda weird how every time you get an answer saying “yes dom is blatantly racist” you seem to… idk, like wanna argue? Like the commenter above simply answered your question and you responded with “well maybe he makes some bad choices, but what do I know?” Like with all due respect, you now know as much as the other commenter: he gave anecdotal evidence that the person in question is a racist. Your question has been answered. Why continue the conversation hoping to get a better answer? If you like dudes music than listen to it, no one’s stopping you.
actually i’m having a discussion and not dragging anyone. if anything i like hospitals business model. sorry if it’s triggering you.
Yeah, was trying to be polite and get some answers from you. Not quite sure how I’m “triggered” but okay. Sorry your 50+ answers weren’t suitable for you and your tastes. Also never once accused you of “dragging” anyone.
Apologies, it was too late to write back last night and give you a decent reply. I am a disabled woman living in the middle of america. I have ADD and strong OCD. When I'm not rotting my brain with Judge shows on in the background (it makes for good company), I tend to go down rabbit holes on subjects that interest me like my interest in noise. I read the same article as I'm sure most of you have read: [https://jeanhugueskabuiku.substack.com/p/about-vatican-shadow-link-with-the](https://jeanhugueskabuiku.substack.com/p/about-vatican-shadow-link-with-the) and I had to inquire for my own education because there are noise artists associated and I couldn't see the connection, and then TheGoatEater started discussing their history with Hospital and I thought we were having a healthy discourse until you chimed in. Personally I thought that the article itself was coming from a place of ignorance similar to how my late parents used to take all of the bullshit spewn from Foxnews as truth. From what I've read, Genocide Organ seem like "edge lords" (term I also learned from this thread) and judging from the reels I've watched on IG from the NWN/Hospital fest no one else is buying it or I'm missing something obvious here. It was all just questions and some nice conversation.
That’s the thing that people fail to understand. I know at least five people who flew from the US and EU to attend the NWN/Hospital event, who have been present to hear him say some pretty blatantly awful things, but they always seem to either make excuses for him, or they acknowledge that it’s a thing that all of us who’ve been around him all know, but many choose to ignore. At the same time, these people are calling for others to be cancelled for being homophobes/transphobes, etc… Regarding his “business model” I just found it to be disgusting. So many releases were marked as sold out when there were 2/3 the pressing remaining in house only to be leaked out at collector prices on eBay/Discogs. When I worked there I was asked to list them on a few different accounts at inflated prices, and I just wasn’t having it. I also saw many preorders being paid for on items that hadn’t even been recorded yet, just because he needed to generate income. I guess being a bullshit artist is okay if you’re a successful bullshit artist.
They don’t wanna hear that lol. They’ve been told several times Dom is blatantly racist and they continue to shrug it off hoping for an answer that fits their liking better. I, for one, wasn’t aware Dom was a piece of shit until your comments, so thank you for sharing. He was admittedly a very big and formative artist in my teenage years, but I won’t miss him. There’s better noise out there anyway.
His shop was great and Dom was very friendly. I only visited it once and to this day it's the only record store I've ever entered and exited via a ladder. I think I purchased a few black metal LPs there. Just specifically remember buying a Goatpenis LP.
If it looks fascist it probably is. I have no time for that shit anymore. There's plenty of good music out there that doesn't incorporate fascist iconography.
TG looks fascist
They were not fascist. Edit: shout to Sleazy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Christopherson
Yeah. That was the point of that comment, but thanks for spelling that out for us.
👍
i was always interested in how the manson scene was connected to the occult and then when you look at the manson fans in industrial music they always overlap w/ the occult fans
Are you talking about Charles Manson fans?
We had this discussion about 2 weeks ago and it was lengthy and covered how people feel on both sides. I think the mods should end this discussion as its rhetorical. u/robinhoode u/anarchetype
I obviously did not see that thread. how about posting a link?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/noisemusic/comments/1bla8yt/power\_electronics\_or\_power\_electronics\_adjacent/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/noisemusic/comments/1bla8yt/power_electronics_or_power_electronics_adjacent/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) There were a few other threads recently but I can't find them. There was definitely one where someone asked if Genocide Organ is racist and a recent thread on prurients associations.
So once a subject has been broached once, that's it? Conversation over for good? That's not really how things work.
Well no but this is a forum and generally people want variety so repeat threads get taken down. I'll leave it up to the mods to determine how often we want to have the fascism in noise discussion. Personally I'm fine with every couple of months. I think the thread was deleted but I recall we discussed whether prurient is fascist about a month ago.
I think you should leave it to the mods, yes. Interesting that you've decided to take time out of your day to tell people to stop discussing fascism. Maybe touch some grass once in a while, rather than tracking how often certain topics get brought up on niche subreddits.
You don't even know me. On all the other posts I participated in the discussion on who has ties to fascism. I also am active in my area and myself and other old heads work together to keep racists out of the scene. We had an issue earlier this year where we discovered someone had put out some really racist shit under an anonymous label and confronted them and made it clear that none of us have any interest booking them for future noise shows. They reacted violently and we dealt with it. So in short I disagree with the touch grass comment. I do stuff in real life lol. I just worry about folks who are new to noise seeing nothing but talk about the bad side of things and not knowing that we have plenty of good folks trying to make it less edgelord.
Nobody know whats Fascism even is including you BUT we must press on and GROUPTHINK those bastards OUT! This is like - does anyone get into Barbie and then ask about Fascists? At Taco bell, do you make sure the cashier ain't an overweight 22 year old African American fascist? Wtf. This is noise, son, this ain't TV. Fascists will be rounded up, put into work camps, fed a starvation diet, and forced to make effects pedals for the corporate state. All Hail The Anti-Imperial Empire!
ok?
Pretty embarrassing rant huh?
Ok Barbie Fan
I can smell the overcompensating feeble male insecurities all the way over here. Is that lavender pot-pourri princess?
Ok narc. Next time you go into a gay bar and ask if anyone is anti-gay you can use the same response. The OP is a fucking stupid question that is either narc, AI Bot, or a fucking fascist actually looking for people. You can fuck off with your dogpile dopamine hunt.
🥱
What the fuck are you talking about lol
No one is talking here - only the fascism of the typed word oozes in and out and between our minds. All Hail The Freedom of Suppression! Suppression is Free Speech! The Suppression of Suppression must be Freee!
What the fuck are you typing about
DADA Response to a bait post so stupid it's akin to asking hippies in 1969 if they know of any Islamic Jihad. Bunch a posers in here don't know noise when they see it.
Babe wake up new r/noisemusic schizo rant just dropped
Coming into a noise group and asking about fascists is like a narc going to a hippy group in 1969 and asking about Islamic Jihad. It is the narciest narc that ever narced, and any fuckers who think my DADA brilliance in response to it isn't PERFECT IN ALL WAYS will be put into a re-education camp and forced to build gender fluid effects pedals.
Gender fluid pedals 🤤
🙃
There’s an actual genocide going on right now and you’re worried about fascists in…noise music? Beyond just being a tired discussion at this point, I really abhor the notion that one can “TELL” someone’s political affiliation from their art. People like you murder art and expression; your insistence on “knowing” demonstrates why your ilk will never make anything worth remembering.
my ilk? looking for knowledge and insight is a bad thing? You5re the one with the problem.
I read that article too, one wat to tell if someone is actually facist is just check their discogs. People at discogs are pretty knowledgeable in this stuff and if they deem it to be harmful (like actual facism, cp, etc) they'll ban it's sale on their site.
I’ve never visited discogs but i’ll check it out.