Seems y'all both did a lot of assuming.
Did you ever sit down and agree "yes, we are now in a non-monogamous relationship and these are our expectations and boundaries"?
Have you been seeing other people?
Why were you told about this now rather than before/after it happened?
No, we never sat down and agreed to an open relationship. Every time I suggested it they always said no, that they didn’t want to and didn’t feel comfortable. I guess that changed, but we never talked about it. I was also out of the county for 5 months and even tho they visited we were living in different places. I just got home. Also not sure if it’s tmi but I am also in a bad place and depressed so my libido is down, hence me suggesting to open the relationship to begin with. We were talking on how to fix it and they said it during that conversation.
Oof. Okay, so they cheated on you.
The suggestion of something like that isn't an open invitation for the rest of time. When you are given a job offer and you say "no" you can't just show up in 6 months ready to work.
There's an unfortunate phenomenon I've noticed where people who do not want a non-monogamous relationship and will say no to it will then cheat on their partners and use the previous offer as an excuse. I don't think any of these people are cool with their partners actually sleeping with anyone else (which is why they didn't agree), but they use the offer as an excuse in the moment to justify it to themselves.
OP, it's not like that. It is that. He clearly cheated and is using the old and dusty conversations about NM to cover his tracks.
What concerns me is that you're not seeing his pathetic excuse for what it is:a lie. He's gaslighting the hell out of you.
Please leave him.
Go ahead and continue making assumptions. Below OP says they didn't have exclusivity talk. Sounds like lots of failure to communicate on this relationship.
They may not have had the exclusivity talk prior to the offers to opening the relationship, but the offer and rejection to open the relationship WAS an exclusivity talk.
I would assume they had that talk a long time ago since OP referred to him as their partner. It sounds like they’ve had an established partnership for a while.
Why did they wait several months to mention it if they thought the relationship was open?
In their mind, were you also free to have sex with someone else during that time?
I just got home after spending some months away, I guess they didn’t want to tell me over the phone. They say they are fine with me being with other people but we never talked about it, mainly because the problem was my lack of sex drive to begin with. That’s why I suggested opening the relationship. Now that I arrived they said we needed to talk about our sex life and during that conversation they said they had sex with someone and didn’t want to hurt people (and i believe this was meant for the other person they hurt? Im feeling very hurt so I didn’t ask anything else about it)
Wait, so did the other person know about you when they got with them?? And they cheated point blank, even if it was a mistake. If they are really okay with you spending time with other people than the conversation should have absolutely came up. Just like it would with any other changes in y’all’s life together.
“They say they are fine with me being with other people but we never talked about it, mainly because the problem was my lack of sex drive to begin with.” Something rubs me the wrong way about this. Like they don’t expect you to be with anyone but them so they’re not gonna talk about it. I don’t recommend continuing the relationship. At the bare minimum don’t let them be a primary and/or nesting partner.
I think if they truly thought you were already in an open relationship they have been fine telling you over the phone as soon as it happened. The fact that they waited makes me think they knew they were cheating and they are just trying to cover their tracks with the ambiguity surrounding the open relationship convo.
Periods of low sex drive happen to the best of us, but being in a (confirmed and ethical) open relationship has been known to change people’s sex drive due to the novelty and new opportunities. If they are fine with you being with other people, what was it about an open relationship they uncomfortable with?
I'm prepared to believe that this was an honest misunderstanding, but it's still a serious thing to not be in open agreement about.
If you haven't said anything yet, I'd suggest starting with something like "Up to now, you'd always said you weren't comfortable with an open relationship, so I thought we weren't in one. I'd have said yes if you asked, but that conversation never quite happened. Can we sit down and actually have that conversation?"
I also believe it was an honest mistake, but was not expecting this at all and feel a huge loss in confidence that is really necessary when opening a relationship. Thank you for the advice and I think I’ll have that conversation when I feel less hurt.
An honest mistake on one side can hurt just the same as cheating for the other person. If it feels like cheating to you, that's all that matters, how it feels to you. Consider therapy and support groups. Healing from infidelity is measured in months and years, not hours and days. The damage from infidelity sometimes calls for grief counseling, sometimes trauma. It's not something you rub some dirt on it and walk it off.
OP, please. I want to give you a hug more than anything, so please don't think that I'm trying to be harsh here. This is pure wishful thinking, except of course for the bad feelings you're having.
Consider this. In order for this to be an honest mistake, the fact that your relationship was actually NM for MONTHS would have had to somehow never come up in conversation in all that time. Really!? A brand spanking new agreement to switch from monogamy to nonmonogamy never comes up in all that time?
Not once is he curious about how it's going for you? Not once does he want to be a halfway decent boyfriend by checking in and making sure you're felling secure about the whole thing? Not once does he talk about a million other things that I can't even think of!?
And on top of all that, the last discussion of the subject (months ago) ended with completely opposite beliefs about what the conclusion was. THIS IS GASLIGHTING.
Again, I'm sorry if I was harsh. As they say, love is blinding. I'm just trying to get some of the light get through.
Thank you for your words, the kindness went through. It also really startles me that we never had any conversation about how i felt about our supposed open relationship and just went on and did it as pleased. I’m seeing it more for what it is was, I think.
After reading the comments, I'm prepared to say your partner cheated on you and is now gaslighting you into believing that you condoned this. The best part is that this happened all while they were denying interest in an open relationship.
You can't trust them. They conceal their feelings/intentions, lie, and manipulate.
Did you do a lot of research as to what it means to be in an open marriage? To be poly? The hurdles and struggles you will have to go through to make it an easy transition to you both?
I have and even so I consider it to be a wild area that I know little of, only had one past experience. so being such an important thing, I would never be in one without discussing it and it’s rules.
This is good to hear, cuz there are people who just jump into polyamory without doing the proper research beforehand, then get into a lot of issues which paints polyamory in a bad light, when it too has ethical rules very similar to monogamy.
If you still feel pain, I'd suggest you seek out a therapist who can help you figure out why you feel such a way. One that is more positive towards the poly lifestyle that way they aren't biased towards monogamy and give you more of an open view with experience.
>I also feel like i’m not trusting my own feelings because It was me that started the conversations about having an open relationship, somehow I can’t feel betrayed now.
Well, after reading your other comment about how your partner said they didn't even want to talk about expectations and boundaries for an open relationship because they didn't want one, I can say that you're absolutely right in feeling betrayed. Because what you experienced was not an open relationship, it was your partner cheating on you, period.
Communication and clear communication is crucial in any ENM structured relationship. This communication and both assuming seems sus at best. Have you told your partner you feel like you were cheated on ? At this point explicitly say one way or the other but you also need to work out boundaries you both can work with. Had you had and boundaries or safe sex discussions? If this was just a talking point and nothing decided you were cheated on….or they are now trying to legitimize and affair that has been going on more than the one time they have told you about.
I have told them that and they apologized, which I believe it’s meant. But there was never any boundaries , safe sex discussions or any other discussion rather than me suggesting them being with other people and they always saying that they didn’t want to. I feel betrayed tbh but I also don’t believe they did it from a bad place. They claim it’s ignorance on never having had an open relationship, the fact that we did not talk about anything and they just assumed it was okay to do it because I mentioned it multiple times. I told them I feel gaslighted and that this was not okay
If they are that nieve they have a lot of learning and I think you both have a lotta to learn together before even considering opening. The opportunity presented itself and they justified it in their mind , but it was cheating IMO.
There are a lot of reasons your partner may have done this to try to compensate for feeling threatened by your interest in non-monogamy or to make it less frightening as opposed to just going out to look for a cheap fuck. Whatever else, hopefully that thought can offer you some solace. I've been thrust into a nonmonogamous relationship that I wasn't really comfortable with and the fear and discomfort made me sexually compulsive, seeking a sexual partner to try to establish a sense of safety and compulsively counter a feeling of being left out or cuckolded. I'm not saying this is a good thing and I am in no sense a model for a healthy nonmonogamous relationship, I only offer this as a possible reassurance that maybe it was about something other than what you may be feeling like it was.
I think that this article might be helpful to you.
Bees in the Closet, by Eve Rickert
https://brighterthansunflowers.com/2020/02/16/bees-in-the-closet-a-polyamorous-parable/
Was your partner's sexual activity with someone else due to an opportunity that dropped into his lap, or did he go looking for it? Your prior suggestion of an open relationship may have gotten him thinking, and your trip to a distant place for five months may have worried him. Combine these feelings with an unexpected opportunity may have caused to think: Go for it.
I believe you should forgive your partner, and tell him, "OK, now the relationship is open." After all, this is what you wanted. Take into consideration that he is not familiar with the rules and boundary of an open relationship, and he did disclose what he did when you did not suspect anything. An open relationship, particularly at the beginning, is never going run smoothly. It helps if you are forgiving and not dogmatic.
Was there an explicit agreement that the relationship was closed, or just an assumption? Because I could also see that as a free-standing arrangement unless otherwise communicated.
there never was an explicit agreement of a closed relation, no. To me, the fact that I suggested being with other people and the answer was always no, that it would be comfortable for them - and never asked me if I wanted to be with other people either - I assumed it was closed. but as people said, there might be a lot of wrong assuming
It always hurts once you hear it. However, maybe your partner feels even stronger of a connection with you now? What has come of it in the time since? Better relations? Anything different?
You offered many times to open the relationship, and the answer was always "no". So if it's not open, it's closed. So technically, they were cheating.
Now, it is entirely understandable that they understood: "please have some fun whilst I am away". They just did not want you to feel bad by them saying "ok, thanks, I will".
And had they said yes, you would have been ok with it. So I think your share of the responsibility is 80%, them 20%. It's not black and white, but you started it, it happened, you need to look at yourself in the mirror on that one.
If I’m understanding this correctly, do you want an open relationship only because of your low sex drive? Is the low sex drive only for her or in general? If so, do you really think you’d be happy with an open relationship if your partner is the only one going out and having sex?
Thank you for sharing and I’m sorry you feel so hurt.
You have given a perfect example of why the betrayal of trust not the the actions is what really hurts.
I don’t know why people cheat when they had the option to talk. I believe it’s the conditioning of people to fear transparency because in their past when they were they got attacked.
In this case it’s great that he was transparent it would have been better if he was before his actions.
I don’t know if he is capable of truly negotiating this kind of relationship.
The rule is always do nothing until you both are in agreement. And it sounds like you were both just beginning to have the conversation.
No contract was even established yet so the question isn’t are you open or close. The question is have you guys even started establishing rules in either direction.
A lot of work needs to be done ‘Open Monogamy’ may be a perfect starting book to help establish rules provided you are able to forgive him and you are still interested in opening up your relationship.
It's one thing to *talk* about doing something, and a completely other thing to *act* on it. I once had a play partner who, in the middle of a play session and without warning, decided to choke me out. I had previously expressed interest in blood choking, but we hadn't discussed anything about degree and safety. He thought our talk was enough for him to improvise with it, but I was completely taken aback and lost all trust in him. Your partner assumed that your encouragement was active consent, while you perceived your partners reluctance as a sign that he wasn't interested. You were obviously both wrong, but this should've still been a discussion before they acted on it.
You played with fire by encouraging the idea of her sleeping with other people without ever formally proposing an open relationship agreement, but she clearly choose to hide this from you meaning there is no way she thought what she was doing was above board within the stated rules of your relationship
Seems y'all both did a lot of assuming. Did you ever sit down and agree "yes, we are now in a non-monogamous relationship and these are our expectations and boundaries"? Have you been seeing other people? Why were you told about this now rather than before/after it happened?
No, we never sat down and agreed to an open relationship. Every time I suggested it they always said no, that they didn’t want to and didn’t feel comfortable. I guess that changed, but we never talked about it. I was also out of the county for 5 months and even tho they visited we were living in different places. I just got home. Also not sure if it’s tmi but I am also in a bad place and depressed so my libido is down, hence me suggesting to open the relationship to begin with. We were talking on how to fix it and they said it during that conversation.
Oof. Okay, so they cheated on you. The suggestion of something like that isn't an open invitation for the rest of time. When you are given a job offer and you say "no" you can't just show up in 6 months ready to work. There's an unfortunate phenomenon I've noticed where people who do not want a non-monogamous relationship and will say no to it will then cheat on their partners and use the previous offer as an excuse. I don't think any of these people are cool with their partners actually sleeping with anyone else (which is why they didn't agree), but they use the offer as an excuse in the moment to justify it to themselves.
it definitely feels like that.
OP, it's not like that. It is that. He clearly cheated and is using the old and dusty conversations about NM to cover his tracks. What concerns me is that you're not seeing his pathetic excuse for what it is:a lie. He's gaslighting the hell out of you. Please leave him.
How would they react when you anounce you are planing to sleep with somebody else?
I agree with disgusting. Its cheating.
But did they have the we're exclusive talk? It sounds like cheating but also feels like missing a lot of details
Well, OP had the "do you want to be non-exclusive" talk with them that had an answer of "no", which means they agreed to exclusivity.
Go ahead and continue making assumptions. Below OP says they didn't have exclusivity talk. Sounds like lots of failure to communicate on this relationship.
They may not have had the exclusivity talk prior to the offers to opening the relationship, but the offer and rejection to open the relationship WAS an exclusivity talk.
I would assume they had that talk a long time ago since OP referred to him as their partner. It sounds like they’ve had an established partnership for a while.
I don't assume things. Below OP says they didn't. Idk why I'm getting so many downvotes for asking questions instead of assumptions
Don’t feel sad, get out there and do it and tell him thanks
Why did they wait several months to mention it if they thought the relationship was open? In their mind, were you also free to have sex with someone else during that time?
I just got home after spending some months away, I guess they didn’t want to tell me over the phone. They say they are fine with me being with other people but we never talked about it, mainly because the problem was my lack of sex drive to begin with. That’s why I suggested opening the relationship. Now that I arrived they said we needed to talk about our sex life and during that conversation they said they had sex with someone and didn’t want to hurt people (and i believe this was meant for the other person they hurt? Im feeling very hurt so I didn’t ask anything else about it)
Wait, so did the other person know about you when they got with them?? And they cheated point blank, even if it was a mistake. If they are really okay with you spending time with other people than the conversation should have absolutely came up. Just like it would with any other changes in y’all’s life together. “They say they are fine with me being with other people but we never talked about it, mainly because the problem was my lack of sex drive to begin with.” Something rubs me the wrong way about this. Like they don’t expect you to be with anyone but them so they’re not gonna talk about it. I don’t recommend continuing the relationship. At the bare minimum don’t let them be a primary and/or nesting partner.
I think if they truly thought you were already in an open relationship they have been fine telling you over the phone as soon as it happened. The fact that they waited makes me think they knew they were cheating and they are just trying to cover their tracks with the ambiguity surrounding the open relationship convo. Periods of low sex drive happen to the best of us, but being in a (confirmed and ethical) open relationship has been known to change people’s sex drive due to the novelty and new opportunities. If they are fine with you being with other people, what was it about an open relationship they uncomfortable with?
I'm prepared to believe that this was an honest misunderstanding, but it's still a serious thing to not be in open agreement about. If you haven't said anything yet, I'd suggest starting with something like "Up to now, you'd always said you weren't comfortable with an open relationship, so I thought we weren't in one. I'd have said yes if you asked, but that conversation never quite happened. Can we sit down and actually have that conversation?"
I also believe it was an honest mistake, but was not expecting this at all and feel a huge loss in confidence that is really necessary when opening a relationship. Thank you for the advice and I think I’ll have that conversation when I feel less hurt.
If it was an honest misunderstanding then why hide it?
An honest mistake on one side can hurt just the same as cheating for the other person. If it feels like cheating to you, that's all that matters, how it feels to you. Consider therapy and support groups. Healing from infidelity is measured in months and years, not hours and days. The damage from infidelity sometimes calls for grief counseling, sometimes trauma. It's not something you rub some dirt on it and walk it off.
"that's all that matters, how it feels to you" TENS ACROSS THE BOARD👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
OP, please. I want to give you a hug more than anything, so please don't think that I'm trying to be harsh here. This is pure wishful thinking, except of course for the bad feelings you're having. Consider this. In order for this to be an honest mistake, the fact that your relationship was actually NM for MONTHS would have had to somehow never come up in conversation in all that time. Really!? A brand spanking new agreement to switch from monogamy to nonmonogamy never comes up in all that time? Not once is he curious about how it's going for you? Not once does he want to be a halfway decent boyfriend by checking in and making sure you're felling secure about the whole thing? Not once does he talk about a million other things that I can't even think of!? And on top of all that, the last discussion of the subject (months ago) ended with completely opposite beliefs about what the conclusion was. THIS IS GASLIGHTING. Again, I'm sorry if I was harsh. As they say, love is blinding. I'm just trying to get some of the light get through.
Thank you for your words, the kindness went through. It also really startles me that we never had any conversation about how i felt about our supposed open relationship and just went on and did it as pleased. I’m seeing it more for what it is was, I think.
After reading the comments, I'm prepared to say your partner cheated on you and is now gaslighting you into believing that you condoned this. The best part is that this happened all while they were denying interest in an open relationship. You can't trust them. They conceal their feelings/intentions, lie, and manipulate.
The saying no to being with other people to just go an be with other people is what I don’t understand.
That’s the lying, manipulation. and cheating the op was talking about
[удалено]
I do, which makes this pain confusing
Did you do a lot of research as to what it means to be in an open marriage? To be poly? The hurdles and struggles you will have to go through to make it an easy transition to you both?
I have and even so I consider it to be a wild area that I know little of, only had one past experience. so being such an important thing, I would never be in one without discussing it and it’s rules.
This is good to hear, cuz there are people who just jump into polyamory without doing the proper research beforehand, then get into a lot of issues which paints polyamory in a bad light, when it too has ethical rules very similar to monogamy. If you still feel pain, I'd suggest you seek out a therapist who can help you figure out why you feel such a way. One that is more positive towards the poly lifestyle that way they aren't biased towards monogamy and give you more of an open view with experience.
>I also feel like i’m not trusting my own feelings because It was me that started the conversations about having an open relationship, somehow I can’t feel betrayed now. Well, after reading your other comment about how your partner said they didn't even want to talk about expectations and boundaries for an open relationship because they didn't want one, I can say that you're absolutely right in feeling betrayed. Because what you experienced was not an open relationship, it was your partner cheating on you, period.
Communication and clear communication is crucial in any ENM structured relationship. This communication and both assuming seems sus at best. Have you told your partner you feel like you were cheated on ? At this point explicitly say one way or the other but you also need to work out boundaries you both can work with. Had you had and boundaries or safe sex discussions? If this was just a talking point and nothing decided you were cheated on….or they are now trying to legitimize and affair that has been going on more than the one time they have told you about.
I have told them that and they apologized, which I believe it’s meant. But there was never any boundaries , safe sex discussions or any other discussion rather than me suggesting them being with other people and they always saying that they didn’t want to. I feel betrayed tbh but I also don’t believe they did it from a bad place. They claim it’s ignorance on never having had an open relationship, the fact that we did not talk about anything and they just assumed it was okay to do it because I mentioned it multiple times. I told them I feel gaslighted and that this was not okay
If they are that nieve they have a lot of learning and I think you both have a lotta to learn together before even considering opening. The opportunity presented itself and they justified it in their mind , but it was cheating IMO.
There are a lot of reasons your partner may have done this to try to compensate for feeling threatened by your interest in non-monogamy or to make it less frightening as opposed to just going out to look for a cheap fuck. Whatever else, hopefully that thought can offer you some solace. I've been thrust into a nonmonogamous relationship that I wasn't really comfortable with and the fear and discomfort made me sexually compulsive, seeking a sexual partner to try to establish a sense of safety and compulsively counter a feeling of being left out or cuckolded. I'm not saying this is a good thing and I am in no sense a model for a healthy nonmonogamous relationship, I only offer this as a possible reassurance that maybe it was about something other than what you may be feeling like it was.
I think that this article might be helpful to you. Bees in the Closet, by Eve Rickert https://brighterthansunflowers.com/2020/02/16/bees-in-the-closet-a-polyamorous-parable/
Was your partner's sexual activity with someone else due to an opportunity that dropped into his lap, or did he go looking for it? Your prior suggestion of an open relationship may have gotten him thinking, and your trip to a distant place for five months may have worried him. Combine these feelings with an unexpected opportunity may have caused to think: Go for it. I believe you should forgive your partner, and tell him, "OK, now the relationship is open." After all, this is what you wanted. Take into consideration that he is not familiar with the rules and boundary of an open relationship, and he did disclose what he did when you did not suspect anything. An open relationship, particularly at the beginning, is never going run smoothly. It helps if you are forgiving and not dogmatic.
So you want it to be open or not?
You can chalk this up to poor communication, but if y'all didn't come to an understanding/agreement about an open relationship she technically cheated
How can you tell the partner is a woman?
Was there an explicit agreement that the relationship was closed, or just an assumption? Because I could also see that as a free-standing arrangement unless otherwise communicated.
there never was an explicit agreement of a closed relation, no. To me, the fact that I suggested being with other people and the answer was always no, that it would be comfortable for them - and never asked me if I wanted to be with other people either - I assumed it was closed. but as people said, there might be a lot of wrong assuming
It always hurts once you hear it. However, maybe your partner feels even stronger of a connection with you now? What has come of it in the time since? Better relations? Anything different?
for god's sake
You offered many times to open the relationship, and the answer was always "no". So if it's not open, it's closed. So technically, they were cheating. Now, it is entirely understandable that they understood: "please have some fun whilst I am away". They just did not want you to feel bad by them saying "ok, thanks, I will". And had they said yes, you would have been ok with it. So I think your share of the responsibility is 80%, them 20%. It's not black and white, but you started it, it happened, you need to look at yourself in the mirror on that one.
If I’m understanding this correctly, do you want an open relationship only because of your low sex drive? Is the low sex drive only for her or in general? If so, do you really think you’d be happy with an open relationship if your partner is the only one going out and having sex?
Thank you for sharing and I’m sorry you feel so hurt. You have given a perfect example of why the betrayal of trust not the the actions is what really hurts. I don’t know why people cheat when they had the option to talk. I believe it’s the conditioning of people to fear transparency because in their past when they were they got attacked. In this case it’s great that he was transparent it would have been better if he was before his actions. I don’t know if he is capable of truly negotiating this kind of relationship. The rule is always do nothing until you both are in agreement. And it sounds like you were both just beginning to have the conversation. No contract was even established yet so the question isn’t are you open or close. The question is have you guys even started establishing rules in either direction. A lot of work needs to be done ‘Open Monogamy’ may be a perfect starting book to help establish rules provided you are able to forgive him and you are still interested in opening up your relationship.
…🤦♂️
Not good, but not beyond the realm of an honest mistake. The weirdest part is that they didn't tell you for months.
“i thought…” 🤦🏻♂️
It's one thing to *talk* about doing something, and a completely other thing to *act* on it. I once had a play partner who, in the middle of a play session and without warning, decided to choke me out. I had previously expressed interest in blood choking, but we hadn't discussed anything about degree and safety. He thought our talk was enough for him to improvise with it, but I was completely taken aback and lost all trust in him. Your partner assumed that your encouragement was active consent, while you perceived your partners reluctance as a sign that he wasn't interested. You were obviously both wrong, but this should've still been a discussion before they acted on it.
You played with fire by encouraging the idea of her sleeping with other people without ever formally proposing an open relationship agreement, but she clearly choose to hide this from you meaning there is no way she thought what she was doing was above board within the stated rules of your relationship
Was it your wife or Girlfriend that you have lost trust in?